Swiss Air Lines: Who's flying the airplanes - Crossair or Ex-Swissair Pilots?

[LAVDUMPER]

Just saw a beautiful picture of a "Swiss Air Lines" A320 at Zurich - yeah, I like the paint scheme.

I am still confused about who is ACTUALLY flying the aircraft - Crossair or ex-Swissair pilots?

So, what's the deal? Who is actually flying and how do they determine who will fly future airplanes for them - will senior Crossair pilots get first dibs? Any updates on pilots and fleet plans (i.e, Embraer 170 - another cool airplane!)?

I plan to fly on Swiss Air Lines in May (already have a PAID reservation), and I'd like to know WHO is flying my aircraft (no preference, personally).

. .Cheers

[Donkey Duke]

For once Lavy, nice post and good question. But I have one question for you? Why don't you fly Delta Airlines to Zurich? I have heard they have great service and I know some of their pilots who seem to be well trained. They have atleast 1 flight a day from Atlanta----which is an easy connection from almost anywhere in the US. You can also fly Continental from Newark the Sewar-k.. .But, you already knew that, didn't you Lav?. .Thanks for supporting America.

Thanks. Donkey Duke <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[Hold at Saffa]

Hi Lavdumper

The old Swissair aircraft MD11/A330/320 are being flown by ex-SR pilots and will be until the integration of the pilot corps under one seniority list, one collective labour agreement. When this actually happens is still anyone's guess. At the moment, the respective pilot unions are still trying to determine who's got the biggest one, if you get my meaning. I think we all know the answer to that one, though. It's like comparing timber wolves with guineapigs.

By the way, Donkey Duke, Delta and Continental are both very good companies, but no American carrier comes even close to the quality and elegance of Swiss first class...not even in the same league, I'm affraid.

[shon7]

In response to the comment about no American Carrier coming close to the quality and elegance of SwissAir- NOT SO!!!

I have travelled on SwissAir and sure the Aircraft are a little more comfortable- but only in Economy. In Business and First the product is not that differentiated. Also with an American carrier if you are a businesss.first class passenger they take care of you since you are their biggest source of revenue. At SwissAir - they don't care. Re-routing is routinely done on Middle East and Asian carriers (yes for Business/first class passengers). Delays are often accounted as force majeure.

I flew SwissAir a couple of times and personally I was not surprised that they went under. Lets see what will come of Swiss Airlines.

That is not to say that the American airlines are doing it better. Some are some aren't. The key is to realize that the airline industry is a "service" industry. And the airlines getting this right are doing well, maintaining load factors and surviving the economic scenario.

[flufdriver]

Hold at Saffa, I beg to differ with your assertion about the quality and elegance of service on european (Swissair in particular) airlines vs Delta on transatlantic services.

Having traveled frequently on the ATL-ZRH route on both carriers over the past 15 years, I have to tell you that I rate Delta's Business & First class service higher then the now defunct Swissair's. (except for Cafi-pfluemli)

Additionally, when the Delta people find out that you are an Airline employee, they always try to upgrade you, not on Swissair, they look down their noses at you in a way that I always thought only older british colonial offcers could.

Now guess who gets my referals or my company's money when I travel on business!

BTW: I bi vo der schwiz und stolz druf! (meistens)

[flysr4ever]

Hello,

[quote]Having traveled frequently on the ATL-ZRH route on both carriers over the past 15 years, I have to tell you that I rate Delta's Business & First class service higher then the now defunct Swissair's. (except for Cafi-pfluemli)<hr></blockquote>

FYI, Delta do not have an F Class. They only have Business Elite which is a slightly upgraded C Class. Delta operate a domestic F Class (but not C Class) on domestic routes.

[quote]Additionally, when the Delta people find out that you are an Airline employee, they always try to upgrade you, not on Swissair, they look down their noses at you in a way that I always thought only older british colonial offcers could.<hr></blockquote>

Credit where credit is due, DL do have a very nice standby upgrade policy. However, Swissair would always to anything to get standbys on fully booked flights. Cockpit jumpseats, FA jumpseats etc... even on longish flights (even Central Africa)

Jeremiah

[butter]

Agian Donkey Duke has attacked a poster! What is it with this guy. Look at UAL Chapt 11 post to hear more wonderful insite from this genuis.

Lavdumper,. .I haven't heard any news on this topic and appreciate the post. I've read some of your posts and though I don't always agree with them you seem to have a good understanding of this industry. Keep the good posts coming!

Just one farm boys opinion! <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[Donkey Duke]

Farmie,

Come on! You really don't get my Humor, do you?. .So Anyways...... I have flown on Delta, Continental, and Swissair to Europe, and the American Airlines always seem to have better service. For all we know, Farmie has never left the state of Alabama.

As far as Lavdumper goes, yes, he seems to know something about this industy, and something about everything else. But hey, it's Farmie's job to come in and critique everyone--like this,"Hey Lav,. .You really do know something. Good job, I will give you a medal, and maybe a red star." Sheesh.

Farmie, do you have a sense of humor? No? Are you a droid? Tim Melland is a droid.

Ok, Farmie, I will bring something valid to this Forum---- American airlines stated today that they will serve 4 new cities from MIA. They are. .Valencia, Punta Cana, Medilin, and Santiago--Domin Repub. There you go, I have brought something true and valid, something Tim could. .not do.

Anyways, bye bye Farmie.

Thanks. Donkey Duke <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[LAVDUMPER]

Hey Donkey - take a chill pill - why you always doggin me? Let's get serious, please....

I appreciate the support FarmFlyer - even though we have been at odds in the past...

My question is pertinent to any airline merger - how do you determine who will remain - is it purely a seniority issue? If Swissair actually went bankrupt and Crossair still remained, shouldn't it's pilots have preference for the "remaining" carrier? How does that work?

For any Crossair pilots - Do you EXPECT to be flying A330s and A320s next - or do you anticipate flying your current fleets and the upcoming (and gorgeous) EMB-170s? What do you think will happen regarding your fleet status next? Any ex-Swissair pilots want to add in their predictions and thoughts?

I am just trying to have a constructive dialogue here...

. .Cheers

[skypointer]

[quote] Swissair actually went bankrupt and Crossair still remained <hr></blockquote>

Swiss stock exchange oversight committee ruled lately, that the take-over of Swissair’s 70% package of Crossair stock by the banks UBS and CS was basically illegal because there was no public offer. Nevertheless they decided not to take action because, as they said, Crossair would have gone bankrupt in the time a public offer would have taken.

So I guess both companies were bankrupt! <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

SWISS management announced lately – faced by the bad safety record Crossair built up in the last few years – that they will adopt Swissair safety standards. As pilot performance is a crucial factor in safety, this has to translate into Swissair selection, training and CRM standards. If not, it’s not Swissair safety standard.

So before anybody can seriously discuss common seniority and who flies which aircraft type, the two pilot corps need to be brought to a common (Swissair) performance standard. Anybody who cannot live up to this standard has to be dismissed.

If this is done, a common career model can be developed and the unions have no reason to fight each other anymore. If not, the safety of SWISS will be on shaky ground and further incidents and probably even accidents will destroy passenger confidence and seal the fate of this airline. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

[jeppesen75]

I deeply regret that in the new Swiss air line this kind of stupid mentality is still alive:. ." As pilot performance is a crucial factor in safety, this. . has to translate into Swissair selection, training and CRM standards. If. . not, it’s not Swissair safety standard.

So before anybody can seriously discuss common seniority and who flies. . which aircraft type, the two pilot corps need to be brought to a common. . (Swissair) performance standard. Anybody who cannot live up to this. . standard has to be dismissed."

The new Swiss airline and all the ex pilot of Crossair (40% non swiss) are really happy to try to build something new, and safest, because it is obvious that we need to improve safety, always, but stop with this "Swissair" mentality.. .(may be I should say "Swiss" mentality.

Swissair is died....died....died...... .And everything is on sold

[skypointer]

How right you are, jeppesen75. Swissair is dead - and so is Crossair. . .Now start everything from scratch? Not enough time for that I fear. So why not salvage the best of both former copanies - like safety standards (see above) and longhaul know-how from Swissair and lean management and can-do attitude from Crossair - and merge it into a fine new Swiss Air Line? Can't be so wrong. What you former LX guys should comprehend, is that Swissair did actually a pretty good job and that it was the management that killed it. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[quote] stop with this "Swissair" mentality.. .(may be I should say "Swiss" mentality) <hr></blockquote>. .One thing you could perhaps learn form Swiss mentality: Do not call everybody that has different opinion stupid. Think about it first, perhaps you could learn something.. . . .And hey, the new airline's brand is built around "swissness". The "Swiss mentality" can't be so wrong then... <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

As you seem to be working for Swiss Air Lines soon, you perhaps better start to get used to it!

[ 09 February 2002: Message edited by: skypointer ]</p>