RAF 4FTS Hawk colour scheme change - date?

[fradu]

Hello,

I am currently researching several Hawk airframes for a web project, and would like to know more on the colour schemes employed at Valley.

Obviously when the Hawks entered service, they were finished in the attractive red/white training colours that were adopted with the Hunter and Gnat.
However, my question is when did the 'new' scheme of red/white/blue start to be applied?
My guess at the moment is mid-1980s, but some Hawks retained the older style scheme until at least 1991.
Therefore, was the blue only applied after a major overhaul?
An example image can be seen via the link below... is that the CFS badge on the fin?

BAE Systems Hawk T1, XX175, Royal Air Force (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1256623/)


Also, can any PPRuNe members suggest when the decision was made to paint all the RAF training airframes black, and at what point did the first Hawk(s) appear in this scheme?
I am sure an 'evaluation' took place somewhere, with alternative schemes being trialled?
Was the Hawk the testbed? If so which colours (and dare I ask airframes) were involved?

Kind regards, and thanks for your time!

Mark

[Background Noise]

I seem to remember that one of the display colour schemes in about 88, maybe Andy Wyatt's, had the blue top (with a union jack scheme on the fin). Day to day, it became apparent that the blue topped aircraft were more visible than the previous training command livery - much to everyone's surprise. Steadily, they all became red, white and blue although it was a gradual process. Those 2 are probably the display and spare at Lyneham and yes that is the CFS badge, the display pilot that year was a CFS instructor.

At the same time, more experiments were done on hi-vis and matt black was the best colour, although gloss was easier to maintain. Some Tornado GRIs had various different tail colours too as part of the same testing. Not sure when they all became black though.

[Dan Winterland]

The dark scheme came about after the display Tucano at CFS was painted all over dark blue for the 1993 display season. it suprised everyone that it was often the only aircraft that ohter pilots reported seeing. As there was a discussion at command level about the Support Command clour scheme at the time, this fact was mentioed and some trials were held to assess how much more visible it was -which proved it was a good colour for added visibility.

Hence the gradual change to black.

[Vampiredave]

I can't speak for RAF Valley but a series of conspicuity trials were conducted at RAF Chivenor during 1991 / 1992. The first Hawk, XX255, was resprayed in an all-over black scheme at St Athan in September 1991 and the trials were conducted between late September and early October against three other Hawk aircraft, XX325, XX331 and XX349.

A second stage conspicuity trial was conducted the following year to determine a highly visible paint scheme for the Hawk aircraft and during December 1992, at least four aircraft were noted in a variety of temporary schemes:
XX176 Matt Black overall.
XX179 Matt Dark Grey overall.
XX281 Gloss Black overall.
XX299 Matt Grey / Green camouflage (?)

[country calls]

The CFS badge was applied to the first six jets to arrive at Valley IIRC and were just 'in the pool' not specifically allocated to CFS Pilots. CFS used to fly almost exclusively of Sparrow hawk line and I definitely recall CFS marked jets operating from Goshawk and eventually Seahawk lines on solo student sorties.

The other big changes I saw from when I arrived in '79, were the nose numbers going from black to white to make it easier for the line walkers to spot; and the pyramid and palm tree growing in size and gaining a ring around it.

[fradu]

Apologies for the delay in acknowledging the replies chaps - changed broadband suppliers.
Many thanks for all the info - it will help a great deal :)

[Steve Bond]

The CFS badge was indeed applied to the first Hawks to arrive at Valley, but the badge shown in the photo was a later version that did not emerge until 1981. The first aircraft to have this version applied was XX181 and I took a photo of it the day it first came out of Gaydon Hangar.

It is quite correct that down on Sparrows we had whichever aircraft were available each morning, but we did manage to get five CFS-marked aircraft one day, and I got them lined up next to each other for a photo.

I left Valley in mid 1985 and no blue-topped aircraft had appeared at that time.

Incidentally, if it is of interest, I have probably the only shot of a grey/green camouflaged Hawk with very short-lived 4 FTS markings. This was at a time when there were plans to rotate the 4 FTS & TWU fleets, and it was the first such aircraft to arrive. There must have been a very rapid change of heart, because it quickly went back to Brawdy.

[Steve Bond]

FRADU,

As an aside, do you have the list of 4 FTS Hawks that were planned to be loaned to the US Navy? If not, and that is of interest for your project, I do.

[Steve Bond]

Earth to FRADU...earth to FRADU...come in FRADU

[Steve Bond]

Ho hum, FRADU must have been lost on ops then.