Pictures are a crutch for a weak mind

[SeaMoss]

At the risk of self promotion, check out a free iPhone Apo called TAFGRAF which shows TAFs as an easily interpreted picture. Apologies to the pros.

[eocvictim]

Looks good, I'm sure it would help a PPL understand TAF's easier but I find it confusing. I guess its different when you read it as X = go, Y = no go, Z = go with holding.

[superdimona]

I don't have an iPhone, but thankyou seamoss for making an effort.

I look forward to the day that we are offered plain english NOTAMs and weather, and let the relics of the telegraph age slide into history.

[betaman]

Or you could spend an hour or two (if that) studying the AIP/Jepps it isn't that hard really. :ok:

[superdimona]

Sure, it's not _that_ hard, but it is still absurd that there is no plain english option. If the same thinking were applied to radios we'd still be using Morse.

If I were a student I'd rather read the reports in English (and be less likely to make a mistake) and spend that time instead learning something useful.

[A37575]

If the same thinking were applied to radios we'd still be using Morse.


OMG. Are you seriously admitting you don't know the Morse Code and you are presumably an instrument rated pilot? Doesn't matter if the book says you don't have to know it. Professionally should know it even though the little dots and dashes under the frequencies give you the hint.:ok:

[eocvictim]

I don't see the problem with the short hand? I'd hate to have to read 10 TAF's word for word. Not to mention 5 ARFOR's, notams and FIR notams! A quick glance in the current format and I can see what is and isn't relevant to my flight. Writing it in plain english would mean pages of useless words I don't need to read.

Putting it in plain english might make a PPL's life a little bit easier but it would make the guys who do it for a living a lot harder.

[QSK?]

superdimona:If the same thinking were applied to radios we'd still be using MorseAnd what's wrong with Morse Code? It's still faster than some of the technologies that we think are "advanced" today. The following demonstrates my point:YouTube - Jay Leno amateur radio test

[Capn Bloggs]

QSK, excellent! :ok:

[Cirronimbus]

Using plain language may open up the possibility of confusing people with vague terms? Using the standard 'shorthand' format keeps everyone on the same wavelength. The standard phrases and abbreviations have a purpose.

I'd hate to rely on the Met man's plain language versions of TAFs etc if he doesn't have a proper grasp of English.

[sprocket check]

...and the average ARFOR printout would grow from 2 pages of TAFs and 17 pages of NOTAMs to 17 pages of TAFs and 17+ pages of NOTAMs. Great. Really smart idea. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Howard Hughes]

but it is still absurd that there is no plain english option.
The flight planning sotware I use has a 'plain English' version available, out of interest have clicked on it a few times, the problem is it takes about four times as long to read!:eek:

What's wrong with CAVOK anyway?

[superdimona]

Well, I'm obviously outnumbered here, but I did say plain english should be an 'option'. If you're a professional pilot who can translate TAFs etc instantly, great! Use them.

On the other hand, if you fly purely for fun and don't need massive amount of weather data, I don't see the harm in plain english. I've been to a presentation by Airservices Australia, and they've told me the single biggest request from attending pilots was for a plain english weather option.

There are ~15,000 PPLs and ~10,000 RAA members as well as additional glider and microlight pilots. Even if half the PPLs are on their way to fly commercially, that's still a lot of people who don't fly for a day job who have to use the existing system.

As for Morse, sure it's fine as a hobby. It has some niche advantages in certain conditions but outside of some hams and elderly navigation technologies it is well and truly obsolete. There are good reasons no modern communication equipment uses morse code - other encoding schemes are far more efficient. The video doesn't show how good morse is, it shows how bad SMS entry of the era was.

[Capt Fathom]

TAFS & NOTAMS!

They're not that hard! :uhoh:

[betaman]

superdimona

Try listening to an AERIS or VOLMET to get an update on the wx it's still quite painful even when it's highly abbreviated, let alone listening to it in plain language.:ugh:

[ConfigFull]

Have the people who want 'plain English' TAFs really considered how easy it is to read a forecast? Here is the weather for the day, great it's valid, from blah blah it's getting worse; oh right, it's getting worse - I'll apply 30 minutes buffer. Done.

You either want to be a pilot or you don't. It doesn't matter if you are a recreational PILOT, a student PILOT, a private PILOT or a commercial PILOT - all of the bits of paper you carry in your licence wallet have PILOT written on them. If you do want to fly then learn the VERY simple way of decoding a TAF. It seriously takes two hours to read AIP GEN 3.5; at least then you will know where to look things up if you get stuck.

I've heard of pilots who navigate off UBD maps, who use the weekly forecast on the news to flight plan and VFR pilots who buy GPSs for the sole purpose of backing up the other GPS (God forbid it fails) - but this stuff is universal, it's (very nearly) the same anywhere and everywhere. If you don't want to learn how to read a TAF then it makes me wonder what else you've decided you can skip over.

[Angle of Attack]

Let's all make up our mind which is easier and this is on a simple fine evening :ugh:

YBBN 251230Z 22003KT CAVOK 21/14 Q1012 NOSIG

or

Brisbane International Airport, Meteroligical Observation Report on the 25th at 1230 zulu time. The Wind is blowing from direction 220 degrees (thats South South West) at 3 knots (about 5 kilometres per hour) The Sky and Ceiling is Clear below 5000ft. Temperature is 21 degrees Celsius and the Dewpoint is 14 degrees Celsius. The barometric pressure adjusted to sea level is 1012 hectopascals. No Significant Change Expected to weather codnditions in the next 3 hours.

[Angle of Attack]

Now that was a METAR how about a TAF?


TAF YBCS 251008Z 2512/2612 15008KT 9999 -SHRA SCT020 BKN040
FM260200 08008KT 9999 -SHRA SCT025 INTER 2512/2602 3000 SHRA BKN015 PROB30 TEMPO 2512/2523 1000 TSRA BKN012 FEW020CB



Terminal Area Forecast for Cairns International Airport Issued on the 25th at 1008 Coordinated Universal Time Valid from the 25th at 1200 Coordinated Universal Time until the 26th at 1200 Coordinated Universal Time The Wind direction is from 150 degrees (thats from the South East) at 8 knots (around 14 kilometres per hour) The Visibility is greater than 10km, Light Showers of Rain, the Clould is Scattered at 2000ft, Broken at 4000ft, From the time on the 26th 0200 Coordinated universal time the Wind will be from direction 080 degrees (Easterl) at 8 knots (14 kilometres per hour) Visibility greater than 10km Light Showers of Rain, Cloud is scattered at 2500ft For Intermittent periods up to 30mins from time 25th at 1200 Coordinated Universal Time until 26th 0200 Coordinated Universal time the visibility will be 3000 metres with Showers of Rain, cloud Broken at 1500ft, There is a probability of 30% that for periods up to 60 minutes duration from time on the 25th 1200 Coordinated Universal time until the 25th 2300 Coordinated Universal time, Thunderstorms with Rain, visibilty 1000 metres. cloud Broken at 1200ft, few Cumilonimbus at 2000ft




And I am spent:rolleyes:

[eocvictim]

I don't mean to sound condescending however, I think some ppl's forget that aviation isn't for recreation.

[superdimona]

I'm sure that will be news to the ~15000 ultralight, glider, trike, hang glider and paraglider pilots we have in Australia!

[Howard Hughes]

I think some ppl's forget that aviation isn't for recreation.
You're kidding right? I may work in Aviation now, but once the finances are in order it'll be recreation all the way!

And then it will be all about my timetable!:ok:

[Biggles78]

Plain (plane?) English weather, where will it stop?

Ah g'day tower, I am sitting in my little high wing single engine powered flying machine and I am flying downwind and I would like to land on the runway. Would that be okay with you? Just reply in Plain English with the wind direction and wind speed and talk me through the approach and landing; OVER to you.

Ok, a rediculous post but seriously where will it stop? As has been stated, it isn't hard to learn and it keeps everyone on the same page talking the same language.

[superdimona]

Ah, but that is a strawman - radio happens in realtime, and someone talking like that will cause problems with both the controller and other people. If Joe the Weekend Warrior uses the plain english option, that doesn't impact Mike the ATPL who loves the current format.

For the record I am not advocating long rambling reports like

Terminal Area Forecast for Cairns International Airport Issued on the 25th at 1008 Coordinated Universal Time Valid from the 25th at 1200 Coordinated Universal Time until the 26th at 1200 Coordinated Universal Time The Wind direction is from 150 degrees (thats from the South East) at 8 knots (around 14 kilometres per hour)...

But something like a table, indicating location, time, wind direction/speed, etc etc. Personally I could live with weather as-is as long as NOTAMs were optionally in english.

OBST LGT ON TWR (BALD HILLS MAST) PARTIALLY LIT
SHOWING 5 RED LGT ONLY PSN S27 19 E153 01
BRG 285 MAG 7.3NM FM BRISBANE VOR
SFC TO 685FT AGL
FROM 02 220618 TO 05 230300 EST

Can anyone honestly say that using 'TWR' for tower, 'OBST' for obstruction etc makes them easier to read?

[PyroTek]

Can anyone honestly say that using 'TWR' for tower, 'OBST' for obstruction etc makes them easier to read?

Does it make it harder to read?:ok:

[Cirronimbus]

Visitors who don't speak English as a first language might find it easier to deal with standard abbreviations and accepted phrases.

We share the airspace. Do you want to deal with translations, in-flight, during less than ideal conditions, just because someone in the circuit area can't be bothered to learn standard abbreviations and standard phrases?

Do you think they would have a better command of 'plain' English instead? There are enough people out there now, who have trouble with the limited, standard phrases as it is, without adding to the problem by introducing plain language that can be open to all sorts of interpretations.

If you can't learn the relatively small number of terms, abbreviations and phrases, that are used in ARFORS, TAFs and general radio telecommunications, you might not be suited to aviation? To introduce plain language instead, would make it so much harder. Who has time to make, and verify, all of the interpretations that would be possible?

The current terms, abbreviations and phrases that are currently in use, are not that hard to deal with. Just look at how hard it has been for some people, to deal with interpretations of the plain language regulations that have been discussed in this thread so far. Do you really want to try doing that in the air?

[Howard Hughes]

Try this (http://www.wunderground.com/Aviation/) Super Dimona.:ok:

No help with NOTAM's though.

[peterc005]

SeaMoss, TAFGRAF is very neat. Great idea and I love it. Thanks.

[Gate_15L]

Pictures are a crutch for a weak mind


Not when it's porn......

[Avgas172]

Not when it's porn......

***Sigh*** it had to happen

[Lancair70]

Like the majority have said, it's not hard to learn how to read TAF's etc.
It doesnt need changing, those who need to use it need to learn how to read it.
Its an international system, imagine trying to read the TAF for VTSP (Phuket) if was to be written in plain language ? (I dont fly there but can read the TAF just before I depart as pax so I have an idea what the weather will be like on arrival, other than hot ;))