low level endorsement

[norwester33]

Hello

Need to do a low level endorsement on the east coast.
Have looked at threads here but quite old.
Does anyone know of operators that can do this please.
Google turned up only one.
I know some ag operators do one but I dont have a tail dragger rating.
Would prefer NSW as Sydney is closest.

Thankyou

[Super Cecil]

There is actually no low level endorsement syllabus. Jobs done on so called "low level" endorsements include powerline inspection and survey work. Both of these jobs would be a lot safer if the pilot did an AG rating which doesn't just cover actual AGwork but flying in all sorts of situations with heavily loaded aircraft down low.
It's crazy a bare commercial can do 4 or 5 hours of so called "Low level endorsement" then load up a 182 with full fuel and 2 observers and go out in hot weather 10 feet above power lines. In these days of strict liability it will come back to bite CASA on the bum.

[bentleg]

Talk to Curtis (http://www.curtisaviation.com.au/) at Camden about it. They do bush strips, tail dragger etc and should be able to come up with something.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Another vote for Curtis

you could also call New England Flight Training at Armidale.

[4by2withears]

The only low level qualifications are the ag rating and the mustering endorsement. Unfortunately CASA has allowed the mustering syllabus in CAO29.1 to be hijacked so people are now going around talking about a low level endorsement as though it is a stand alone qualification. At best it is low level training. The requirement for 5 hours low level training in CAO29.1 is used but the requirement for an additional 10 hours operational training and direct supervision by a CASA approved person seems to be ignored. CASA has allowed a grey area to develop and would appear to not be in a hurry to resolve it. If you raise the subject with there flight ops staff you get a lot of ums and ahs. In the mean time a quick google search will bring up gems like this from the web page of a flying school.


If you require a low level endorsement for your next position, look no further. Our Chief Pilot and Chief Flying Instructor, with thousands of hours of agricultural flying, can teach you everything there is to know about low level flying. The endorsement takes approximately 5 hours of flying time and can be achieved in as little as two days.
This endorsement qualifies you to fly at low level, and is a regulatory requirement to conduct low level work such as involved in aerial survey, bird spotting and mustering.
Our minimum requirement is 200 Hours total flight time


"teach you everything there is to know about low level flying" all in 5 easy hours. You've got to be kidding. Its a wonder there is not a set of steak knives thrown in.
There is a lot of low level work that is not ag or mustering but it does need CASA to provide a stand alone qualification and training syllabus so there are no grey areas.

[norwester33]

Thanks chaps

Waiting on reply from Curtis and talked to Armidale so its looking good.

I agree with you both on the minimum requirement.
Ag rating is the aim but at around 20K would have to sell the kids or missus.

Cheers guys

33

[601]

There is no such thing as a low level endorsement. Nor can AG pilots conduct low level operations other than ag ops unless they complete a flight test. See CAO 29.10.8.1 and 9.1

CASA accept training for low level ops iaw the Syllabus in paras 1 and 2 (aeroplane) or 3 (helicopter) in Appendix 1 to CAO 20.10.

Most AOC holders should have a syllabus in their OM. This syllabus should be iaw the Syllabus in paras 1 and 2 or 3 in Appendix 1 to CAO 20.10.

Student helicopter pilots do get periods of low flying training but this training is iaw the Day VFR Syllabus.

It is a very grey area that really needs rectifying.

[DeltaT]

Hi, thought I would add some information to this that I have just found out, and for anyone searching in the future.
Low Level training is built into the NZ licence syllabus. So to get this Australian endorsement for any kiwis, get an ATO to sight your logbook and see you have done more than 5hrs low level training, get a sticker in the logbook, copy and send to CASA, done!

[C206driver]

It will become a 'rating' under part 61.
In the meantime I don't see how it can hurt to undertake the 5 hours 'training' as referred to above.

Did mine several years ago and learnt heaps.
Be careful where you choose as they are two different types of training (Ag vs Mustering).
I believe the Ag LL does not count toward a mustering.
Mine was done IAW 29.10 and there are only 1 or 2 guys in the country I would highly recommend.
One in particular travels oz to do for some major companies.
PM me for details.

[Aussie Bob]

In these days of strict liability it will come back to bite CASA on the bum. CASA has allowed a grey area to developIt is a very grey area that really needs rectifying.Well, we can see where you blokes sit. Just let me hear no complaints from you as the rule books and legislation get thicker and thicker and thicker.
It's crazy a bare commercial can do 4 or 5 hours of so called "Low level endorsement" then load up a 182 with full fuel and 2 observers and go out in hot weather 10 feet above power lines. In these days of strict liability it will come back to bite CASA on the bum.

Nothing crazy here Cecil except for the Chief Pilot who allows this to happen. Reality is, the system seems to work. Outside of mustering and ag, is there any accident statistics that points to more legislation being required?

[Jetdream]

Does anyone have any up to date information on who is doing the Low Level Endorsement at the moment? There is not much on the net and a lot of companies are temporarily not doing them due to some confusion with Part 61.
Any info would be great.
Cheers

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Can set up one for you in Brisbane. PM for details.:ok:

[Jetdream]

Thanks for the info. Curtis Aviation isn't doing them at the moment due to Part 61 and the confusion on who is approved to do the newly required flight test.
Will give Bob Harris a call and pm'd MIHC

[aldee]

Perhaps a call to Phil @ RNAC may be useful
Has done a lot of work LL & with ag pilots

[wicks747]

Did mine in leongatha about 12months ago not sure how the new regs have effected this outfit but pm me if you would like to know more. I felt I really got my money's worth

[whichstrip]

Did mine with Stu Hignett at Armidale, he also is connected with Super air. Good training

[roundsounds]

Oberon Aviation at Albury, they have a part 141 flying school, but their main business is power / pipeline surveillance and they mainly use C172XPs. 02 6057 4444

[Jetdream]

Thanks for the info everyone. Can highly recommend Ramair at Mildura for anyone looking to do one in the future. They are all ticked off from CASA and good to go.
Cheers

[Tee Emm]

Five hours of dual low flying instruction is a rip-off just like five hours of tail wheel endorsement is a rip-off. In another era, dual low flying at 200 feet was part of the PPL practice forced landing training in the designated low flying area. During PPL navigation training, low flying was then incorporated into a navex for 15 minutes on one or two legs prior to the final PPL test. There are a few minor aspects to low flying that are easily demonstrated by a competent instructor, but over the years it seems people have greatly exaggerated the basic handling skills needed for low flying and thus significantly increased the cost to the student via more hours.

[plucka]

Good one Tee Emm, that's bloody funny!!


Where are these competent instructors you speak of these days. No offence intended to the instructors of today but how many of them have any true low level experience? Very few, that's why it's necessary to find a specialised instructor. If you think 5 hrs is enough to learn how to fly at low levels, you are kidding yourself. It would take 5 hrs to teach someone the skills to be able to continue to learn on their own safely.... Minimum.

People don't need a low level rating (in this post part 61 world) so they can fly up the beach at 200ft. Anyone can do that (all be it illegally) because there are no obstacles and a true horizon. People want a low level rating for jobs, like power line inspections, mustering, survey flying, firebombing and as a pre requisite for Ag. Most of the skills needed for these jobs are not in the PPL or CPL syllabus...

Rip off.... I don't think so!

[gainsoverplanes]

Barry over at Woorayl Airservices is all signed off and ready to go with the new part 61. I felt like I definitely got my money's worth and covers more than the NZ CPL Low Flying Syllabus like cattle bombing and flying under power lines etc :ok:

If you have any questions PM me. And watch out for the local Leongatha girls on the karaoke on Friday night :}