Which part of the cabin for the smoothest ride?

[ony]

In which part of the cabin do you get the smoothest ride? Over (/under) the wings? In the front?

[Load Toad]

I find over the wings based on my belief that the plane pretty much has to pivot about its CoG. But then again they wouldn't put the big ticket seats up the front if it wasn't comfy would they?
I don't like being right down the back.

[Chuchinchow]

I was given to understand that the seats with the smoothest ride - on commercial flights, that is - were forrard on jets and aft on propeller-driven aircraft.

[MissM]

Over the wings would be where to be seated for the smoothest flight.

[Betty girl]

The front of the aircraft on an airbus is the smoothest part in my personal opinion.
At the front I often cannot feel the turbulence or rocking that can be felt at the back of the aircraft.

Over the wings may also be smooth but it is very noisy in the wing area on most aircraft as you are closer to the engines!!

[The SSK]

Chuchinchow that's more to do with noise. The bigger turboprops had their F-class cabins down the back. Having flown on Britannia, Electra, IL-18 and Viscount I promise you that you would not want to sit abeam of the engines and props. Current types like the Dash-8 don't seem to be nearly so bad.

[Joao da Silva]

At the front I often cannot feel the turbulence or rocking that can be felt at the back of the aircraft.

Completely agree.

When you are near the empennage, the action of the yaw damper can be quite pronounced, adding to the turbulence.

[ony]

I've seen arguments both for the ride being smoothest by the wings (because the fuselage is suspended by the wings and flex will be more pronounced the farther you move away from the wings) and in the front (comparing the plane with a dart, which is most stable in the front).

To me the first argument sounds most reasonable, but what do I know, I'm just SLF.

[PAXboy]

Have always heard that the middle - abaft the wings - is the smoothest. Since that is where I'm riding for 10.5 hrs tonight - I'll let you know! BUT it varies depending on the size and length of the A/c and, it is oft said, manufacturer.

[mixture]

the plane pretty much has to pivot about its CoG

Sorry to be pedantic, but there's no such thing as a fixed CoG in an aircraft.

It's why weight and balance calculations are so important in order to ensure your proposed CoG is within an acceptable range.

[frequentflyer2]

For what it's worth I think you notice the aircraft's motion more when sitting in the rear. You're looking right down the cabin so you get a much greater visual impression of movement than when you're sitting at the front. Several years ago Mrs. FF and I flew BHD to Liverpool on a Flybe Dash 8 400. We were sitting in the back row. The last 10 minutes were very rough. Like the couple across the aisle from us we were actually holding on to the seats in front to stop our heads banging together. We were literally being thrown around in our seats. I've had some rough flights in the front row of the same aircraft and it just doesn't seem as bad.

[somedaywill12]

I don't like to sit in back - or anywhere behind the wings. It's more noisy and by the time the flight attendants arrive with your food, they're usually already out of the more popular option ;).

Over the wings is nice.

[Crusher1]

No where near the engines on any of the older generation props, more recent ones like the dash 8 seem fine though. Generally I'd say at the front is better, but best of all has to be upstairs on a 747! :)

[fincastle84]

Sit as far forward as you can afford. That's why the 2 winged master race are always at the front!:ok:

[airsupport]

IF you are just wanting the smoothest (most stable) ride then it should always be over the wings. :ok:

[Rush2112]

Does any airline have its F class in the middle of the plane to benefit from this smoother flying experience?

[airsupport]

Does any airline have its F class in the middle of the plane to benefit from this smoother flying experience?

Not that I am aware of.

I guess they couldn't have the first class pax having to go through cattle class to embark and disembark, also for the bathrooms, cannot really have them over the wings.

I do not really like being right down the back, usually noisier, but it is the safest place on the aircraft, where on all the aircraft I am familiar with they instal the black boxes.

[SNS3Guppy]

Sit as far forward as you can afford. That's why the 2 winged master race are always at the front!

We sit up front because that's where the paycheck is.

I don't think there's anywhere on the airplane that's more comfortable so far as the ride goes, though the business class/first class seats tend to be a little more comfy.

Personally, if I'm not driving you'll usually find me somewhere as far toward the back as I can get, asleep. It's closer to the restrooms, and closer to the galley.

Anywhere aft of the engines will be louder.

Anywhere nearest the center of gravity will have the least movement. If you figure out where that is, let me know. I might move there.

[fincastle84]

That was a joke. You USN flyers never had a sense of humour.:ok: The P3 guys were OK though!

[PAXboy]

Last night I was on VS LHR~JNB on a 744 and the PE seat I was in was just at the leading edge of the wing. During the night I got up for my usual leg stretch and I always walk down to the back, across and back up the other aisle and then, depending on the disposition of pax and my seat, another circuit or return the same way.

When I got to the back, I was VERY surprised at how much the tail was wagging. Over the wings, we were experiencing a slight 'rumble' but the tail was really 'cobble stones'. I know the yaw damper can be very active but I was doubly surprised as this was one of the all time smoothest rides I have had on that sector. Even the equator was MUCH quieter than usual. So I'm rather glad that PE is where it is.

On another matter, to adapt the OP.
In which part of the sky do you get the smoothest ride? Over countries now in ferment? :E
The normal route is over Tunisia and Libya, for some reason, our track was much further west, over Algeria and then in a more or less straight line over Angola to Botswana and in to South Africa(various other countries along the way of course).
:D

[ony]

I wonder if the ride would feel as rough in the front of the cabin as in the rear?

[dClbydalpha]

Firstly comfort is a very subjective thing, based on noise, heat, light, vibration and movement, so there is no one answer. Noise tends to be worse nearer the engines. But most people are disturbed by movement.

An aircraft will tend to rotate about its centre of gravity. Any force not applied through the CG will create a rotation as well as a displacement. The position of the CG is controlled carefully to ensure that the aircraft is balanced. The two large forces on an aircraft are lift and weight, for stability reasons it is good to keep them fairly close together, and so the CG is placed near the wings. The further away from the CG you are, either forward or rearward, the more pronounced any movement due to rotation is. Most people find sitting forward to be smoother, and this is due to the change in motion experienced due to displacement and rotation.

If you see an aircraft taking off, as it rolls down the runway it gets to a point where it rotates and then takes off. When it rotates the nose goes up and the tail goes down as the aircraft climbs overall. For those in front of the CG they will feel themselves lifted up first by the rotation and then by the climbing of the aircraft. In the rear they will feel themselves descend first due to the rotation and then climb. So although, everybody is lifted overall, those in the front experience it differently to those in the back. This change from down to up can be quite disturbing to the equilibrium. In my understanding this is why it is better to sit forward than rearward, but to minimise this effect get as close to the wings as possible.

[Mark in CA]

"Smoothest" will always be over the wings because of location of CG, about which roll, pitch and yaw occur. The further you are from the CG, the more pronounced the movement about these axes. Vertical and horizontal displacements affect the whole plane equally. Forward of the wings is generally quieter. Conversely, aft of the wings is generally more noisy.

[airsupport]

"Smoothest" will always be over the wings because of location of CG, about which roll, pitch and yaw occur. The further you are from the CG, the more pronounced the movement about these axes. Vertical and horizontal displacements affect the whole plane equally. Forward of the wings is generally quieter. Conversely, aft of the wings is generally more noisy.

Yes, as I said earlier too, the smoothest ride MUST BE over the wings, it is just simple mechanics/engineering. :ok:

That well may NOT be the quietest, most comfortable, safest etc but that is NOT what was asked. :ok:

[SNS3Guppy]

You USN flyers never had a sense of humour.

Which USN flyers would those be?

Not a crowd of which I'm a part. I work elsewhere.

[PAXboy]

I recall being on a ship once (the old style boats of the Union-Castle line) and my cabin was near the back. When the ship was in heavy weather, I could feel the cabin: Sink; move to the left; rise; move to the right; and then sink again as the pitching and rolling continued. NOT GOOD!

[Mad Monk]

I was on the old Union Castle/SA Windsor Castle, Southampton to Cape Town way back in '77. Cabin was well to the forward, outer starboard on/under the surface.
Felt pitch and roll well, despite the stabilisers. Minimal time spent in the 4 berth cabin, only 3 of us to start and the God Botherer some how disappeared after night one.
Great 13 day trip.

First airplane was a Viscount between Bulawayo and Wankie, aft of the wings. A bounce was felt in flight and those wings did flap about, the seats behind the cabin bulkhead were pointing backwards, a lá Military.

After similar flights as a younger person, I do not care. Peace & quiet is want I require, not self important, noisy or agressive SLF.

[clareprop]

I really don't understand the question...

In my G-IV, should I find some level of discomfort at the front, I move to the back...or any point in between that takes my fancy. If the problem continues to annoy, a bottle of Krug '64 often distracts....
If neither of these simple steps improve the situation, then it's obviously a crew issue and they should be dismissed upon landing.

[malcolmf]

In turbulence, the natural movement of an aircraft is to go nose down in an updraft, and nose down in a downdraft. This is because the airstream vector moves down and up, producing more or less lift. The aircraft then rotates about the nose. The same applies in the vertical axis. It is complicated by the reaction of the pilot, autopilot or yaw damper to the gust, and also the inherent stability of the aircraft, which in turn is dependent on the position of the Centre of Gravity.
I would say then that the smoothest ride is at the front. It is also why it is difficult to tell exactly how bumpy it is in the back from the Flight Deck.

[Tetsuo]

From slf experience I can only tell, further to the front is always better. Less noise, less shaking from turbulance etc.

[Frognal]

The front is smoother, because you have been sedated by the hospitality in the premium classes.

[Manchikeri]

In turbulence, the natural movement of an aircraft is to go nose down in an updraft, and nose down in a downdraft.

Are you quite sure about that, MalcolmF?

[PAXboy]

Mad MonkUnion Castle/SA Windsor Castle, Southampton to Cape Town way back in '77.It was the RMS Windsor Castle of (by that time) the Union-Castle Safmarine company. She was the flagship. I was on her in January '66 from CPT to SOU and am currently in CPT, leaving for LHR today and the journey will take 12 hours, rather than 12 days. But one of the reasons that the line folded!

She was a lovely ship and now back to the thread ...

[Smoketrails]

After recent experiences, nothing beats upstairs on the B744!

[PAXboy]

This week, I was on a VS A346 CPT~LHR, which is 12 hours. Seated in 21A, a PE seat just at the leading edge of the wing.

Overall, it was very comfortable. Interestingly, I could see the slight rolling motion but could not feel it. The roll was small but continued for much of the flight and was seen by the wing against distant clouds.

Noise was, naturally, louder at this point as the #2 was right outside. I also found that my Philips Noise Cancelling headphones were not as effective against the background noise - as they had been on the outbound, which was a 744.

[Piltdown Man]

The smoothest ride would be obtained of over the wings and optimally I'd go about 1/3rd back from the leading edge for the perfect ride. This wouldn't necessarily be the nicest ride as you'd be in the the cheap seats with a tighter pitch. You also be over various aircraft services which would make a noise when operating and then there's those sitting around you... So given the choice (and the cash), I'd sit towards the rear of First/Business/Upper/Alan Bennett Class.

PM

[ony]

Good point about the noise over the wings from various aircraft services. I realise that noise is also an important comfort factor.

The reason for my OP is that we're going on a one-class charter holiday flight, where we can pre-book our seats (against a modest fee, of course), and I now have a better idea where in the cabin to book.

But out of curiosity, given that the ride is smoothest over the wings and rougher in the rear of the cabin, would the ride be equally rough in the front as in the rear if we make the rough assumption that the wings are midway down the fuselage?

[Dairyground]

But out of curiosity, given that the ride is smoothest over the wings and rougher in the rear of the cabin, would the ride be equally rough in the front as in the rear if we make the rough assumption that the wings are midway down the fuselage?


That would probably be true if the fuselage were rigid. However I have always thought that the effects of rudder and elevators, combined with the (small amount of) flexibility of the fuselage made the back end move around more than the front end.

[PAXboy]

I recall reading in here, on more than one occasion when this subject has been discussed, that pilots say, 'When it's bouncy for us - it's REALLY bouncy for the pax.'

This indicates that the nose gets less bounce but also, I think, that the FC are more used to bounce! :yuk:

[TightSlot]

When assessing the need for Seatbelt Signs OFF/ON and whether the FA's should be strapped in, pilots often contact the back of the aircraft to check how things are. The rear is always the toughest ride, especially on longer aircraft. Two days ago, I asked for my crew to be strapped in and galley secured at the rear two doors, whereas the forward doors/galleys/crew continued (with care).

[Hipennine]

Sit by the window on the back row of a 757, and concentrate on watching the cabin wall. In even the lightest chop after T/O, you can clearly see the fish-tail movement. If it's an early morning business flight, you can observe a rippling wave of opened newspapers from the overwing seats back over as well ! It doesn't happen up front.

[bubblyguy]

For turbulence etc the least impacted and smoothest conditions would be felt at the front of the aircraft.

The tail and the rear will be worse for all conditions.

This is one reason why when the cabin crew are at the rear and turbulence hits they might call the flight deck for the seat belt sign to go on when it really isn't that bad. ;)

[777fly]

On the B777, the smoothest ride in turbulence is in the row of seats just ahead of doors 2L & R which is usually the last row in business class This is ahead of both the wing leading edge and the engines. The ride in the flight deck is less comfortable and it is much worse at the tail end.

[TightSlot]

-200 or -300?

[EEngr]

Just my opinion as a passenger:

The best seat for minimizing the perception of pitch and yaw would be nearest the CG. So sit just ahead of the wings (to minimize engine noise as well). But on a wide body, sit near the center of the fuselage as well to reduce the perception of roll. Maybe its just me, but aircraft seem to do more rolling than either of the other two degrees of freedom.

[PAXboy]

I agree that roll seems to be more frequent however, on my recent CPT~LHR, I was looking out of the window at the moon and stars and noticed the wing tip moving up and down against the clouds. I had not thought that we were rolling and I am usually very sensitive to attitude change.

So I looked in front of me and tried to sense the roll - I could not. So I looked out of the window and there was the slow roll and not just a wobble but a very distinct up and down of the winglet against a moonlit sky. I cannot say how many degrees as I have no scale of reference but DISTINCT and continuing.

Once again, I looked in front of me and could not see or sense the roll. I was at the leading edge of the wing in PE on a VS A346.

[ChicoG]

As Chubby Brown said: "I always book seats at the back. You never hear of a plane backing into a mountain".

:E

[Dont Hang Up]

When I fly in a 777 I find the 'sideways turbulence' far more pronounced than on any other aircraft.

I guess this is the yaw damping of which people speak? Why is it so much more noticable than on smaller aircraft? And though it's a while since I was on a 747 I don't recall the same effect there.

[MPN11]

This is a bit bizarre, but bear with me.

My most comfortable long-haul ever was a 2-day trip in a C-130 Hercules from RAF Lyneham to Little Rock AFB. I have a string hammock, and with the Loadmaster's permission, I hang it from the aircraft frames right at the top of the rear ramp. It's a bit cold up there [you actually get ice forming on the inside skin], but wrapped in a warm jacket, and wearing gloves, you settle down.

You then discover this gentle swaying motion. The rudder is compensating for this, and the ailerons are compensating for that ... and you sway. Gently, endlessly, rocking in mid-air. I slept nearly all the way from Lyneham to Goose Bay, and most of the way from Goose to LR. It was simply lovely.

Oh, I forgot to mention wearing the ear-defenders :cool:

[PAXboy]

Glad it worked for you MPN11, even reading about it made me feel sea-sick.

[WHBM]

Maybe its just me, but aircraft seem to do more rolling than either of the other two degrees of freedom.
It depends on the characteristics of the airframe. Of the two similar types of single-engined light aircraft I fly, for example, in turbulence the Cessna is much more unstable in roll, whereas the Piper is notably more unstable in pitch.

I have, of course, had several quite learned technical aerodynamic explanations for this about the differences between these two types. Unfortunately the explanations are all conflicting with each other !

[EEngr]

I'm thinking in terms of normal maneuvering as well as motion due to instability. The latter is probably more tiring as it would be present throughout most of a flight.

But for normal maneuvering, what are typical roll vs pitch vs yaw angular motions about an aircraft's CG? While these are directly perceptible by ones vestibular system, the linear motion produced by the product of the roll/pitch/yaw and the distance one is from the center of that motion is what produces those 'stomach-flipping' accelerations.:yuk:

[WillDAQ]

Definitive answer time:

If you're considering the response of the aircraft to vertical gusts then the front is the best. When the aircraft hits an upgust it heaves upwards but also pitches nose down, hence towards the front of the aircraft these motions to some extent cancel each other out, while down the back they magnify to make things unpleasant. (This is why most accidents involving broken bones occur in the final few rows).

If you're considering the response of the aircraft to lateral gusts then the middle is the best as it will minimise the acceleration due to any yaw motion.

Which is best? Well thanks to those massive wing things being designed to generate lift upwards, the aircraft has a far stronger response to vertical gusts than lateral ones.

Hence, finally, the front is the best.... But you're more likely to get killed there in a crash :{.