Getting past the receptionists when looking for Charter jobs

[dabz]

I've recently discovered a new challenge to this industry, one that has nothing to do with actual flying but is so important!

How does one get to see the chief pilot when visiting air charters up in the NT/WA?

You can spend a lot of money and time visiting these places to not meet the CP and have your resume placed in the bin :/

I'd be most interested if anybody has any tips or advise in tackling these "very solid brick walls".

[Tidbinbilla]

Bring flowers if the receptionist is female. Bring a carton if it's a bloke.

Sorry.... NT/WA. Bring a carton for either gender :}

A point worth noting: It's just as difficult to see the Chief Pilot anywhere in Oz.

[Worrals in the wilds]

I had this problem as a youngling in another industry that's almost as parochial. If you can possibly dredge up a friend, relative, friend-of-a relative or relative-of-a-friend who knows the target (sorry, CP:}) it can be a useful intro in a phone conversation with them. 'Bob suggested I give you a call' is a lot more memorable than being wannabe #301 for the week and may help your resume make it past the circular file.

My guess would be that ringing ahead before rocking up would good business practice, but maybe it's different for regional flying ops.

If all else fails, remember to be scrupulously polite to receptionists and well presented. It's amazing how many job seekers aren't, and it invariably gets back to whoever's doing the hiring.

Good luck!

[dabz]

I've tired calling ahead of time and it's resulted in giving the receptionist warning to deny you when you arrive! :ugh:

I've figured if you want to see the right people it involves moving into town for an unknown period of time so you can visit each operator multiple times. Eventually you will get to the right person and only then does the interview process begin... Unless there's another step that nobody has told me about? :}

[YPJT]

Quite simply, make an appointment. Frustrating I know but at least you will have a headsup before arriving as to whether the CP wants to talk to you or not.

[AussieNick]

just be careful, that 'receptionist' might just be a pilot not flying that day for some reason, or the CP him/herself not in uniform....

[Unhinged]

I can hear conversations in the reception area from my desk, and how people treat the receptionist affects whether I'm "in" or "out" when pilots come calling.

And as Nick says, the receptionist might not be who you think they are ... I've overheard some interesting conversations between my boss and potential employees who didn't realise that the woman sitting behind the desk that morning owns the business.

[DaisyDuck]

I am with you U/H, very humourous watching some people come in the door and they think they are 'just' talking to 'the receptionist'. Alot of GA work places are tight knit. Make a tool of yourself at the front desk and good luck getting any further, no matter who you are speaking to.
Best just to be courteous, and yes, attempt to make an appointment or ask when the best time might be to catch the CP. If the CP doesn't want to see job applicants, you aren't in with much of a chance.

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

Yes I've heard that too, quite recently, where a company director was running the front desk and treated like something the wannabee employee scraped off their shoe. Great karma. Has happened to me too. "Make me a coffee while I wait for the CFI" :mad::mad::mad:

The very solid brick walls are there for a good reason, the same reason that most workplaces have a reception person. BECAUSE THE BOSS ACTUALLY HAS WORK TO DO.

My front desk staff are instructed not to allow anyone through who hasn't had the courtesy to make an appointment, and they are very good at spam filtering. They can deal with 99% of the stuff that comes through the door anway.

Poor manners such as a complete stranger barging in with no notice expecting to drag me out of a briefing room/meeting/prevent me from meeting a deadline (or just get home on time) makes an appalling first impression and their resume is destined for the circular filing cabinet for that reason alone.

Who advises these people?! :eek: Do they really think CPs just sit there all day longing for the perfect stranger to walk through the door? Would you do it for any other type of job??

[Capetonian]

I've overheard some interesting conversations between my boss and potential employees who didn't realise that the woman sitting behind the desk that morning owns the business.

There was the story of the man who went to see a highpowered and expensive London solicitor. He walked in to the waiting area and sat down, and a well-groomed young lady greeted him. He asked her to get him a cup of coffee while he waited.

She did so, waited patiently until he'd finished it, then called him into her office where the 'clock' had already been runnning for 20 minutes at about £250 an hour!

[Worrals in the wilds]

Awesome:ok:.

"But when you are invited, go and sit in the lowest place, so that when your host comes he may say to you, ‘Friend, move up higher.’ Then you will be honored in the presence of all who sit at table with you". Luke 14:10.

I'm sure other non Christian religious texts contain similar advice, i.e. don't assume you're the biggest cheese in the room until you're really sure. Even then be polite, because you don't know who the cadet receptionist is related to. Trust me, I've been the cadet receptionist :}.

[Xcel]

The logical thing is to make an appointment. If the Cp won't accept appointments don't think that they are the be all and end all - owners - ops manager - senior pilots - engineers even the receptionist may be of help to get your resume on the desk at the top of the pile.

It's funny how a little research goes a long way though. Ring ahead to find a suitable time to just drop a resume off... Just a resume nothing more. Then when you drop it off try make an appointment be as polite and professional as you would expect to be treated ( may not be very much for some) and you should be in a better position. Try not to rush visits...

Hope this helps someone
cheers

[mince]

Tell the receptionist you're from the ATSB or CASA when you call.....works every time

[Bounceferret]

How about be considerate, honest and well mannered and when walking into the operator understand that you have an "L" stuck to your back.... also remember your name is not Pete Mitchell
Try and try again, if that fails, try again.

[A37575]

OMG.. It seems from all these replies that every piddling little general aviation chief pilot or CFI in Australia (including one Mod by the tone of the reply) have delusions of grandeur. And Australians boast of being egalitarian...

This in marked contrast to the experience of one of my friends who knocked on doors at Djakarta airport in Indonesia, looking for a flying job and where he was welcomed with unfailing politeness and courtesy by management people.
Better still he was offered a job with more than one operator.

[aerodude]

From what ive seen where I work.
The best advice is to ring ahead and try and make an appointment with the CP/CFI. People that just rock up unannounced will NEVER get a look in. Most the time they are out flying themselves/doing paperwork ect. Be nice to the person behind the front desk. You never know who they are. Even if they are just a receptionist, if you **** on them, your resume wont get much further than the recycling bin. If the CP/CFI doesn't want to see you then perhaps there are no jobs going or you're not suitable for the job. Hope it helps and good luck with the job hunt :ok:

[Metro man]

This in marked contrast to the experience of one of my friends who knocked on doors at Djakarta airport in Indonesia, looking for a flying job and where he was welcomed with unfailing politeness and courtesy by management people.

This is normal for Asia where the position of pilot is treated with respect verses Australia where a pilot is just another Tom, Dick or Harry. I remember a few years ago, making an appointment with someone in HR who I had cold called about a job for which I wasn't even endorsed for. When I arrived she had been called to a meeting, but would I like to talk to the Vice President of Flight Operations instead ?:ok:

Compare that to Australia where very often a snotty little cow looks down her nose at you and won't even treat you with common courtesy. A nuisance salesman gets better treatment. Doesn't matter how polite you are to them.

I hope the receptionist from Flight West Airlines got the same treatment she gave to pilots when she needed to find another job.:hmm:

However you would be better off not getting past Arthur Morris's receptionist, he was the worst of all.:rolleyes:

[UnaMas]

Heh, Arthur Morris, he is not to bad if he likes you. But a cu$7 if he doesn't!
Just try to find a common interest.

[Sunfish]

This almost always works:

Objective One - get an appointment with CP.

1. Find out who the managing director or CEO is. Learn as much as you can about the company and its operations.

2. Ring CEO or Managing Director and ask for them by name. You get past reception by stating that you want to talk to him about charter work. When connected, state who you are and that you are a pilot who believes he may have something to contribute to the company's operations. Be as specific as you can.

You will most likely be asked to talk to the CP/CFI.

3. Ring CP/CFI. Ask for them by name. State truthfully "Mr. so and so asked me to ring you". State your case and ask for an appointment. Since you have been referred from above, the CP probably doesn't know who you are, but he knows the boss wants you to talk to this guy. He doesn't know you cold called his boss. You will probably get your appointment. Bring your resume.


4. The rest is up to you.

P.S. It's easier for girls, you will always at least get the appointment.

[aileron_69]

I believe Sunfish has hit the nail on the head there. Even without talking to the company director (and a lot of company directors are te CP as well in smaller companies,) you will do a lot better if you can ask for the CP by name, rather than just "could I speak to the chief pilot."
Research people, its just not that hard.

[Howard Hughes]

If you must cold call, don't ring or turn up at the busiest time of the day!;)

But if you really want to get a job, there are only three things you need to do NETWORK, NETWORK, NETWORK! Aviation is so small there are generally only two degrees of separation, ask around you probably know someone who has contacts.

If you are fresh out of flying school, keep in touch with the guys you learnt with, especially the ones who already have flying jobs! :ok:

[Capt Toss Dudley]

Metro Man & UnaMas

I know exactly where your coming from I've seen it all, and my advice to anyone
Don't go there, he has no respect for the young aviator and you will not be treated with respect. As for maintenance & condition of some A/C well thats another story, stay away for your own sanity.

Early last year a young gentleman came through the door dressed very impressively in a suit with his resume only to be told P*** off, not looking for pilots. You could of only felt so sorry for that young guy he probably never pursued aviation any further.
That is what happens, if there is a shortage pilots then he's your best friend until you've got your back turned.

There is a lot of other professional companies out there that I would suggest.

I guess it's no wonder the regulator went through him like a tin of epsom salts back in early 2010.

[Exaviator]

There was a time during my aviation career that I held the position of DFO/Chief Pilot of a combined Charter/RPT operator and received numerous applications for employment. All that were written in a professional manner received a reply.

Times may have changed, but if any pilot seeking employment took the trouble too cold call at my office, which was 400 miles from the nearest major city, and presented himself in a similar manner, I at least did him the courtesy of a face to face meeting.

On one such occasion, and about to leave my office to crew a four sector flight, I offered one such young man the chance to come along for a chat en-route.

He accepted the offer, which not only gave him a look at our operation but gave me the time to evaluate both his technical knowledge, and most importantly, his self motivation.

The end result was that he ended up being employed as a F/O on both our DC-3 & F.27 aircraft. Later in his career he became a Check & Training Captain with a major international airline.

So if you are planning to go around the traps seeking employment my advice is:

Have your documents in order, be smartly dressed and well groomed, be both polite and patient and above all, be self motivated. You may get several rejections but eventually your persistence will pay off.

[Flying Bear]

Funnily enough, I look at things a bit different...

I ask my "reception" (ie Operations) staff to advise me when someone drops in, I will usually come out and say a quick hello, which to me is an initial filter. I don't like my operation simply taking the resume and shooing them out the door, but if I am not there that may well happen - I hope they come back! If my very first impression is good, I will invite that person back for an interview at a time that works for me (and them) later that day (usually knock-off minus 45 min...). That's done over a coffee in the office and if it all looks good, we go from there.

I have been in that position, and I respect those who make the effort to come dressed in uniform or otherwise presentably to state their case. Takes courage - and I like that.

Gives me a chance to see what the person is like as a person, as flying is not the be all and end all.

[Mr. Hat]

Ahh dabz, I feel your pain mate. I remember that scenario very well.

I once fronted up in the slacks ironed shirt with CV and logbook and a can do spritely/positive attitude to a company in Darwin.

Needless to say there was nothing to be spritely about as I was running out of money and covered in debt/sweat.

I asked to see the CP just to hand my resume to him and was ignored so I stood back and let passengers get to reception and opted to wait whilst the room cleared to ask again. About 5 minutes into my wait (sitting down not in anyones way) the ops manager or receptionist (a bloke/a moron) publically humiliated me in front of the entire room full of pilots passengers and office staff. He yelled at the top of his lungs and told me to basically F*$k off!

I never did go back. I concluded I didn't want a job there. Infact I decided to not bother with the sought after operators. I opted to try for Aboriginal communities or Cattle Stations. Thats was my solution you will find you yours mate.

15 years and countless other humiliations later I sip coffee at 41000 ft with noise cancelling head sets and occasionally just for fun think back to those people and how they are still living in GA squallor. Its a soothing thought. Those times are what keep me posting here. I remember what its like and a encouraging word is all you need sometimes.

Keep up the good work mate. I look forward to seeing you up the front sometime.

[Metro man]

15 years and countless other humiliations later I sip coffee at 41000 ft with noise cancelling head sets and occasionally just for fun think back to those people and how they are still living in GA squallor. Its a soothing thought.

Yes the $200K income, exotic foreign holidays, swimming pool, full time maid etc are quite enjoyable.:ok: I can now quite justifiably look down my nose at these people as well.:}

I still remember the good ones who I am grateful to for helping me get where I am today.:)

[Baritji]

Mr Hat,

Hahahaha, I believe I know the organization you speak of.. They wouldn't 5 or is it 6 metros now do they?

I was in t he RAAF (77sqn) for 5 years, had an accident, and was classed by the ADF as medically unfit for all duties... I then applied for a CASA class 1 and was rejected. I wanted to stay in Aviation, so I got an ops job at this outfit. Very dodgy, Planes sent out hundreds of kgs overweight (not so good on barons, and cessna 400s. We did so many adhoc charters, rostering the next day would take hours, and we wouldn't ring the crews untill 1900/2000 to let them know their flights for the next day.

Anyway, Ops manager was a top bloke when he was in a good mood. Didn't take much to push him over the edge though. He would yell, scream, punch the walls and throw stuff at ops and pilots in front of passengers. If Pax asked stupid questions, he would tell them to f*** off.. I have seen him punch pilots, and grab pilots by the neck and push them against walls. Crazy!! It's best you did not get a job there.

I was there 3 years, got my CASA class 1 and now fly bizjets in Melb.

Anyway, most CPs I know get really sick of pilots cold calling them everyday. Just remember you are probably the fourth or fifth of the week to come through, so don't always ecpect to be welcomed with open arms. Do you research on the staff, and make an appointment, You could even have a chat to one of the guys in ops, or a line pilot who is hanging around reception. GA companies are tight nit, and if someone takes a shine to you, your chances of employment are much higher!

[Jack Ranga]

"But when you are invited, go and sit in the lowest place, so that when your host comes he may say to you, ‘Friend, move up higher.’ Then you will be honored in the presence of all who sit at table with you". Luke 14:10.


Ahhhhh.............Samuel L Jackson, smart man, might pay you gen y'ers to download his iphone app and listen to his words of wisdom :ok:

There's a free one and a not so free one.

[Mr. Hat]

Not sure if it was, I think they closed. Best I didn't get a job there as if he punched me I'd have punched him back. He wouldn't have made it as far as my throat.

Dabz I think the best way to go is try to organise a time, an appointment as others have suggested here. Most good outfits will do this. If they won't it might be a signal that they are not that good and you should look elsewhere.

I worked at other places where they hired newbies and both places had CPs that would agree to meet new pilots.

Believe it or not but there are reasonable outfits out there. Its not easy work but if you have a good work ethic you'll get plenty out of the experience.

[Animalclub]

I'm with Exaviator and Flying Bear.

When I was a local airline manager I always saw potential employees whether they made an appointment or not. Sure it cost me time and I had to stay back at night to complete projects... but I met some good talent who made useful employees.

I've been unemployed so I know what they're going through.

[Mach E Avelli]

"2. Ring CEO or Managing Director and ask for them by name. You get past reception by stating that you want to talk to him about charter work. When connected, state who you are and that you are a pilot who believes he may have something to contribute to the company's operations. Be as specific as you can."

Absolutely the wrong approach! Going over the top of the CP to the CEO is a strict no-no. A lot of Chief Pilots in the GA sector are insecure enough as it is without having some wannabe trying to short circuit the system or pre-empt them. If there are vacancies, most Chief Pilots will respond to a cold door-knock call, just so long as the person makes the visit at a convenient time, is well presented, has all the required documents and a one page resume' clearly stating flying hours on types, validity date of medical and IR. CPs are usually a bit strapped for time, so they are unlikely to respond well to a barrage of unsolicited information or persistent phone calls.
Even if there are no vacancies, with the softly-softly approach, chances are you will get to present your resume' in person. You can only hope that it is then held on file. If your qualifications fit the Company needs, chances are it willl be. If they don't, there is no point in persisting, as many charter contracts stipulate minimum experience criteria. Just move on and knock on some other operator's door.

[TrevorDal]

As somebody who in a previous life spent a few years in sales trying to get in touch with the right people, the key was doing some prior research. Find out a name, bit of history etc. If you 'cold call' just be polite and ask when is a good time to catch them. Then casually ask if they're about now. If not then you've got some good information. Get an email address - a brief but well worded email is often a good approach. Sometimes it may take a bit of effort and time, but you'll get in.

[Worrals in the wilds]

If Pax asked stupid questions, he would tell them to f*** off..

You've got to admit, we've all thought about doing it :E. I take it they were the only operator on their particular routes?

Anyway, most CPs I know get really sick of pilots cold calling them everyday. Just remember you are probably the fourth or fifth of the week to come through, so don't always expect to be welcomed with open arms.

I think that's the core of it. You are the most important person in your life but you're lucky to make the top 100 in anyone else's, particularly when you're a beginner in a competitive industry. Good manners, information about whether the organization actually needs pilots and pre-planning seem to be the theme here. No point in wasting your time if they don't need any pilots at the moment, no sane company employs more people than they need.

[dabz]

Mr Hat: Dabz I think the best way to go is try to organise a time, an appointment as others have suggested here. Most good outfits will do this. If they won't it might be a signal that they are not that good and you should look elsewhere.

That's some awesome advice, with all my heart thank you!

Tomorrow I continue the quest.
I still believe I need to fully migrate over to either Darwin/Kunuas/Broome to actually have a real shot of employment. So I'm going to do this.

The visit to Aus from NZ is no good because when I do actually get through to a CP they're going to want an interview. If you're not in the country for that interview then you lose.

[lilflyboy262]

Dabz,

I also have a piece of advice for you.
Look futher than Australia. I am a Kiwi that is currently flying in a place called Maun, Botswana.
The most expensive part is to get here. After that it is very cheap to survive. Unlike getting to that part of Aussie from NZ. You have to do the same waiting around until the operators are ready to hire. Hiring season runs from Nov-Mar.
Good progression through aircraft. Generally after a year, give or take a few months, you move onto a Cessna Caravan from C206's or GA8 Airvans. Log on average 750-800hrs a year.
You have a 2 year contract. Pay is average for home standards but very comfortable for Botswana.
Chief pilot will make time to see you if you ask for it. Be patient as he finishes whatever it is he is working on.
He wont however, treat you like something he scrapped off his shoe.

Cheap to live here with all the creature comforts you need, by no means is like anything you will have at home though.
You will have about a 1 in 4 chance of getting hired, around 40-50 people a year turn up with about 15-20 jobs going among 8 operators.

Take a look on the Africa forums for more info, I wrote a thread that has dropped a few pages back titled Maun, the essential guide. Should give you some pointers.

Hope this has given you something to think about. After you have read the arica forums, if you have any other questions, give me a message.

[Mr. Hat]

Dabz as you can see the people on prune will take the time to help. Get to know them and you never know what might come of it. There are a few GA operators that regularly contribute.

From my point of view I found it easier to steer clear of the pilot meccas and look in the more remote places. You can base yourself in a mecca so if something comes up you are johnny on the spot. You can give the appearance of being there whilst funding excursions to remoter areas. Its all about keeping multiple options on the boil. Most operators in out of the way locations will give you their time as, believe it or not, not many pilots actually go there. A lot send letters or call but not many actually go out.

When a company I worked for had to lay off workers I walked into a job on the other side of the country all because I had "dropped in" a couple of times to shake hands with the staff there. That person I shook hands with I'm good friends with still today so it was well worth the effort.

Keep plugging away. There are a million ways to skin a cat just choose the one that suits you best.

[UnaMas]

Duds-

Yes I totally agree, Arthur is a prick and he can turn on his loyal servants at the drop of a hat, as well as belittling those who come in the door seeking work.

However, he is doing something right, he has been there for many years and has a lot of work, albeit suprising due to the state of the aircraft, however I have heard through the grapevine that there are whispers of new paint and new aircraft.

One can only hope that the poor guys down there get paid a bit more too. But on the other hand some might just consider that a price to pay for multi engine IFR charter in brissy.

[Mr. Hat]

My experience was in Darwin but I did talk to "Arthur" on the phone.

I concluded I wasn't suitable for the position.

[dabz]

Liftboy262, thank you for the info. Africa's definitely an option if Australia doesn't work out. To tell you the truth I would be scared ****less flying in Africa. Having an engine failure and forced landing into the Savanna would be scary... I wouldn't want to take on a lion, leopard or hyena when stranded. :eek:

Mr Hat:
Its all about keeping multiple options on the boil.

Again I think you've hit the nail on the head and I shall put your words into action.

Without giving away too much this morning I've been given an opportunity for employment.. Wahoo! :)
It's not a given yet as I have to relocate but when I do I'll be given a good look at by the CP.

From all the operators I've visited so far this seems to be consistent, if you want employment you need to 100% relocate to or close too that intended operator.

I'm only half way through my tour of Aus and will continue to visit operators as you can't put all your eggs in 1 basket but once I get home to NZ I will be packing up shop and moving over.

Thank you everyone for all the advice :ok:

[Mr. Hat]

Great news, make sure the CP knows you are available as soon as he/she needs you there (48hrs). This often happens at short notice and operators won't leave a frame sitting against the fence whilst you neatly pack everything in alphabetical order. They will and have been know to give it to other that just happened to be in the area. Its a cruel game aviation. If need be relocate another time. In ga all you need is a licence a headset, your log book and a good sized tin of elbow grease.

Keep the other options ticking over. Its easy to get into the mindset that you're "sorted". Newflash: you ain't sorted until you are checked to line! Even then, like you would in your 210, you should know what your options are at all times. Just keep an ear to the ground just incase. Don't drop all that hard work, perhaps redirect it as your total time increases. All these contacts will pay dividends when the time comes to move to the next rung. You've got to be looking 5 steps ahead all the time.

Keep us posted.

[Centaurus]

Its a cruel game aviation

Dead right - especially if you make the mistake of writing up all defects in the maintenance release and soon after get the boot right up your arse and the DCM.

[Towering Q]

Just getting back to the receptionist angle for a moment....in my previous job the receptionist had a lot of influence in the hiring decisions. She would always be called upon to provide input when it came time to cull the CV pile!:ooh:

The smart hopefulls would always be on their best behaviour around her.:E

[UnaMas]

I don't understand why it is so hard for EVERYONE to adopt a positive attitude towards EVERYONE else in aviation.

Without pilots there are no businesses, without receptionists there may still be businesses, but not very efficient ones, without fresh pilots coming through the doors the current pilots have no one to replace themselves with, without engineers there are no planes to fly, without pilots there are no plane for the engineers to fix, without, without, without each other we are all out of work.

[Mr. Hat]

Sorry Centaurus I don't follow..?

[onedottoolow]

Mr Hat
I think what centaurus is referring to is that certain operators out there "not a lot just some" crucify their pilots for writing up defects on the MR. I personally know this from experience, I once worked for a company that the CP, also the owner of the business regularly abused myself "and others" for writing up defects.
Unfortunately the most concerning part was that these defects most of the time were continually ignored and only rectified when the company pilots all refused to fly the A/C.
Another disturbing fact was, if you had endorsed the MR with a defect which made that A/C unserviceable, by the time you arrived for duty the next morning there was a completely new MR in that A/C, and most of the time that defect not fixed at all.
I'm not referring to e.g 1 VHF radio U/S or any other minor defect i'm talking about water leaking through a windscreen and running over and into the cockpit instruments and wiring, DG U/S, NDB U/S etc etc etc ........................the list could go on.
I was sure there was inappropriate business dealing between this operator and his maintenance engineer buddy.
These are some of the real issue's confronted in GA still today.

[Mr. Hat]

the CP, also the owner of the business regularly abused myself "and others" for writing up defects.

Yep know what thats like. Cheers CASA.

Another pearl is the 'parts not available' clause'. Easy, just don't stock any parts, off you go.

People wonder why pilots don't stick around in GA. Having said that our government doesn't exactly make it easy for operators to make a profit or stay afloat for that matter.

With all majors now using cadets as their main stream of pilots General Aviation will gradually disappear and remote Australia will pay the price.

[PA39]

Put a football sock down your pants! I know for a fact that if you're a looker you get placed in the pile.........if not.....its the door.

[PyroTek]

What I don't understand is why young pilots (and people in general I guess), as people, are too up themselves to be courteous to everybody they come across in the business at least as a first impression?
When I eventually go for a job in an aviation business, I see myself walking into to the business and asking the receptionist how he/she is, and then going about my business without acting like I am the best thing since sliced bread.

(Then again I have spent two years in customer service/retail... had that attitude hammered into me)

:ok:Pyro

[aileron_69]

What I don't understand is why young pilots (and people in general I guess), as people, are too up themselves to be courteous to everybody they come across in the business at least as a first impression?



I think that is best explained by the age old joke:

"What is the difference between God and a New CPL?"

"God doesnt think he's a new CPL"

Part of the attitude comes from many of the flight schools feeding their students on the bull**** that by doing you flying with them, people will be begging for you to work for them, but aviation in general does seem to breed a disproportionate amount of people who think they "wake up each morning and piss excellence"

[cficare]

rachel at GAM was very good at 'filtering'.

[bankrunner]

The CP at a place I worked at a while back was female, and looked a fair bit younger than she was. Should've seen what happened when some of the punters who thought she was "just" the receptionist learned the error of their ways :ok:

[captwawa]

Dropping into "WimRRAY" during the wet in a suit, tie and resume was a fun and uplifting experience.

Ahh the memories :confused::confused::ouch::uhoh:.......:mad:

[Mr. Hat]

Yeah I didn't even bother with them.

[Centaurus]

Mr Hat
I think what centaurus is referring to is that certain operators out there "not a lot just some" crucify their pilots for writing up defects on the MR. I personally know this from experience, I once worked for a company that the CP, also the owner of the business regularly abused myself "and others" for writing up defects.


Introduction to Cutting Corners in GA.

Thread drift maybe and I hope the Mods think it not too lengthy. But I wonder how many young and inexperienced general aviation pilots have had similar experiences in their desperation to find and hold on to their jobs while waiting for that first airline break.

After my sudden retrenchment from a Pacific island airline where I had been flying Boeing 737’s, I returned home to Melbourne unemployed. I phoned around with not much luck.

The curt, unfriendly manager (surname of Kendall if I remember right) of a major commuter airline was frank in his refusal even to interview me saying that he would not embarrass his young captains by having an old man in the co-pilot’s seat – and in any case, he doubted that at my age I’d be able to lift the passenger’s suitcases.

Desperate to find something, I touted my considerable experience around various GA operators. Again, no one seemed interested. Ex-airline pilots were apparently not a good bet. Worse still, ex-military pilots were considered bad news as well. The perceived wisdom among the GA fraternity in Australia was that airline and military pilots would expect too much of aircraft serviceability, might not accept the commercial reality for the need to stretch the rules from time to time – and that flying light twins was too tough a job for them in any case.

But finally I was rewarded when the chief pilot of a charter company said he might be able to give me some casual work. So for a few weeks I flew an Aero Commander to various airports around Victoria, picking up priority freight.

Told that maintaining schedules was paramount to the success of the business, I was quietly urged to speed up my cockpit checks, taxi faster, cut corners in the circuit and generally “ forget airline habits” (whatever that meant).

One evening, because of a delay in loading, I arrived back at Melbourne’s Essendon airport ten minutes late, and despite my explanation, was castigated by a newly promoted 27 year old senior pilot. My job was on the line, and being desperate to hold it until something better came along, I began to cut corners like a “real” GA pilot – albeit very reluctantly I should hasten to add.

I am a bit on the short side and was not physically comfortable in the Aero Commander – its cockpit layout favouring six footers; so I bought myself a Baron endorsement as the freight company had one of this type on line. The Baron was a lovely aircraft to fly, and I had no problem reaching the rudder pedals.

My trips now required me to fly from Essendon to Bairnsdale (140 miles) in the morning, stay in a motel all day, then after loading my freight, fly a short hop to West Sale – more freight – then finally back to Essendon with a night landing.

On this particular day, the Baron I was flying was one that the freight company had cross-hired. The morning flight to Bairnsdale was normal with the aircraft showing no apparent defects. After refueling, I put in the control locks, and went off to the motel for the day. Not having flown this particular Baron before, I spent time reading its Flight Manual. When I saw it was privately owned and who owned it, I vaguely recalled someone mentioning that the owner had experienced expensive troubles with repeated failure of the alternator warning lights. However, as the current maintenance release was clear of defects I assumed the aircraft was fully serviceable and gave the matter no further thought. At 7pm I returned to Bairnsdale airport to await the freight which arrived on time much to my relief. After securing the cargo nets, I took off for West Sale (40 miles) and landed on schedule just before dark.

To my dismay, thanks to a flat tyre en-route, the freight van at West Sale arrived at the airport ten minutes late and I began to sweat about the future of my job. Some bulky but light cartons were finally forced into the Baron, but despite much pulling and cursing I was unable to lock down the cargo nets again. I finally decided I would have to get going –and fast – so leaving the nets unsecured and draped over the freight I hastily started the engines, did a Battle of Britain scramble, and set course over the hills for Essendon. As a safety precaution the nets were completely useless – and I knew it. Some 25 minutes later, and 45 DME from Essendon I noticed that the instrument panel lights becoming dim. Being in cloud, and feeling weary as well as tense at the thought of receiving another rocket for being late, I adjusted my glasses and put the problem down to imagination – and advancing years. After the excellent lighting of the 737, I had found that most GA aircraft had lousy illumination and it worried me sometimes. Tonight was no exception.

Soon afterwards the ADF needle began to wander aimlessly and the VOR flag became intermittent. The instrument panel lighting was getting worse and I suspected an electrical problem was in the offing. This was puzzling, because both alternator red warning lights were still extinguished and the load meters showed an ever so slight charge rate.

When 35 miles from Essendon, the DME gave up the ghost – leaving me in cloud at night with no radio navigation aids. Fortunately, just a few moments previously, I had glimpsed the glow of Melbourne’s city lights in the distance before going back into solid IMC.

I called ATC and advised them that I might lose radio contact due to an electrical malfunction. The controller had just enquired: “Are your operations normal?” when I lost all lighting in the cockpit. Happily, I had a small torch in my pocket, so continuing to fly with one hand, while using torchlight to see the instrument panel I checked all the circuit breakers were in. I aimed for the glow in the clouds as I neared Melbourne while attempting to keep out of clouds as much as possible. Occasional glimpses of ground lights indicated a lot of low scud, base between 700 and 1,500 feet, and the rest of the cloud seemed to be about five eighths cover. I finally spotted Essendon’s runway lights below me, but they quickly disappeared in a patch of cloud.

At least I had fixed my position so it was simply a case of flying the aircraft with one hand and trying not to drop the torch which I was holding with the other. I planned to spiral down carefully below the main cloud base, and land normally. Selecting the landing gear lever to down, I was startled to see that nothing happened. The landing gear is electrically operated, and of course I had no battery power remaining.

While pondering a solution I suddenly found myself in a 60 degree bank – my torch beam having wandered off the artificial horizon as my concentration lapsed. I was thankful that I was experienced in night IMC flying – “black hole” approaches into tiny Pacific atolls had kept my cross reference skills up to scratch.

Fortunately I was aware of the basic emergency drills for lowering the landing gear and after pulling the appropriate gear motor circuit breaker, groped in the dark to find the emergency gear handle. In the Baron it is situated in a damnably difficult position just aft and between the pilots seats. I now discovered that because I had failed to tie the freight down, some of the packages had worked themselves over the handle assembly. I could have done with three hands – one to fly, one to aim the torch at the artificial horizon, and one to shift the boxes!

Circling with only partial visual contact, and unaware that I was straying near the ILS approach path to nearby Tullamarine (Melbourne International) airport – and that ATC were watching me on radar like a hawk as two 747’s were inbound – I finally succeeded in shifting the freight out of the way, and reached blindly again for the emergency gear lowering handle. It operated freely for only five or six turns then jammed. Normally 50 turns were needed to lock down the landing gear. So what was wrong now? Once again I had to guard against overbanking as I tried to look down and aim the torch at the emergency gear handle.

Not being completely familiar with lowering the gear manually- I only had about five hours on type - I decided I’d better confirm exactly which way the handle should wind – clockwise or anti-clockwise, because it was jamming in both directions. Fortunately fuel endurance wasn’t an issue, and providing I didn’t drop the torch and break it, or flatten its battery, or worse still, lose control in cloud, I felt confident of sorting out the landing gear problem.

I scrabbled in the dark for the Flight Manual situated in the glove box over the far right side of the cockpit, and carefully placed it on my lap. Now have you ever tried simultaneously flying an aircraft at night with one hand, watching the flight instruments, and trying to read the manual’s emergency index? All the while waving a torch between the instrument panel and your knee? The book slides off your knees because you have to keep your feet apart on the rudder pedals and your knees together to hold the book. Wearing trifocal glasses is no help either!

Anyway, between much wing waggling and semi-visual navigation, I eventually found the right page and proceeded to read the small print – and I can tell you for someone of mature age in that situation, it was very small print indeed.

Having now confirmed the correct direction of handle rotation I had managed some 20 full turns when the rotten thing jammed rock solid. By now I had lost a fair amount of skin from my right hand – thanks to the handle, pieces of broken plastic and sundry bits of fuselage all being in close proximity to each other. With blood on my hand I was in a fair amount of pain and was cursing with great bitterness the gentleman from my Pacific airline who lost me such a pleasant job and was thus indirectly responsible for the situation in which I now found myself.

Forcing myself to stay calm, I faced the embarrassing possibility that a wheels-up landing might be the only way out. I was angry with myself for being such an idiot because failure to secure the freight was not only a clear breach of the regulations, but worse still, an example of poor airmanship. I vowed that never again would I be pressured into potentially dangerous situations by fears of job security. I am sure that most commercial pilots have been down through a similar road at some time or other in their career, but inevitably history repeats itself and good resolutions of GA pilots are tempered by the reality of earning a crust.

All this drama over Melbourne had taken about 20 minutes. Now, as an afterthought, I turned on the aircraft master switch which had previously been turned off to conserve battery power. Delighted to see the VHF selector glowing a faint green I quickly set 7700 into the transponder and transmitted that I was unable to lower the gear. No sooner had I pressed the VHF transmit button when everything went dead again and I was back to square one.

At this stage I was orbiting Essendon airport which I could see 2,000 feet below me, and I was fairly confident I could stay close in, despite frequent cloud penetration. I did not want to descend further until I was ready for an approach, because I needed the altitude for which to recover from any unusual attitude that may have occurred while flying, reading and winding by torchlight.

I made a few more attempts to free the now jammed emergency gear handle but finally gave up in disgust; My hand hurt, I was tired and irritable and my flying was becoming sloppy. I decided I would have to belly land within the next ten minutes – worried that that if the torch battery went flat, events could go swiftly from bad to worse.

The idea of a wheels-up landing did not worry me too much in itself; but the thought of being crucified by officialdom for not tying down the freight weighed heavily. I had enjoyed a reasonably trouble free career as an airline pilot – but I’d certainly stuffed it now in GA.

After a few minutes thinking through the proposed belly landing, I switched on the battery for one final call to Essendon to warn them I was coming in – ready or not. Again, a faint glimmer of green on the VHF light. It then struck me that if there was some power restoration in the flattened battery, the normal gear mechanism might work. Pushing in the main landing gear circuit breaker (pulled as part of the emergency lowering drill), I selected “down” on the main gear switch. Within a couple of seconds I heard a reassuring thump below. It was like music to my ears. At the same instant the green down lights glowed momentarily then went out. Next there was total darkness as I flew into a thick patch of cloud.

It was good enough for me. I had seen three greens before the battery finally died. Using my one handed torch technique, I descended in and out of low cloud into the circuit at Essendon. I had no flaps or landing lights and no real certainty that all three wheels were locked –but with the aid of the torch aimed at the ASI, the approach and touch-down was OK. I decided to stop the aircraft on the runway while I tied a handkerchief over my right hand which was bit messy. Then I taxied to the freight terminal where the waiting van driver grumbled about my late arrival. I put the aircraft to bed (we did not have the luxury of on –the-spot maintenance staff), installed the gust locks and wrote in the maintenance release: “Total electrical failure and emergency gear handle jammed.”

In a rather feeble effort at sick humour I then left a spot of blood on the maintenance release! The few remaining staff on duty weren’t the slightest bit interested in my problem apart from bitching that I was late as usual. So I kicked started my old Honda motor bike, and drove through the night to the welcoming lights of home.

After a kiss and a “Did you have a nice flight, dear” from my ever loving spouse, I phoned Melbourne ATC and apologized for disorganizing their flow control. Then I rang the DCA air safety people to explain things. Next day I filled in the mandatory incident report form (omitting to mention that the freight had not been secured) and gave it to my chief pilot for on-forwarding to DCA. Wonders of wonders they never received it – possibly because it never left our company office…after all, a DCA investigation might turn up a few secrets when it came to poor maintenance.

That day I had a closer look at the emergency gear handle. A maintenance engineer who had seen my write up (and blood spots) in the maintenance release told me that he could find nothing wrong with the electrical system – apart from a flat battery and a popped circuit breaker which was part of the generator control system. Although I believed I had checked all the circuit breakers after the electrics had failed, this one vital circuit breaker hidden from sight beneath the instrument panel had evaded me. I was unaware of its presence because its label on the front of the main circuit breaker panel had been ripped off. Some Barons had this circuit breaker – others did not. The Baron in which I had done my initial conversion did not have this circuit breaker. A prime example of Murphy’s Law!

I wondered when and why the invisible circuit breaker had popped – and why no alternator warning light operation? The latter was easily answered. There were no bulbs in the generator lamp module, only the transparent red plastic light covers! The earlier repeated problems with the alternator warning lights blowing had proved too expensive for the owner, so he simply removed the light bulbs and put the red covers back in place. He conveniently omitted to record his actions in the aircraft maintenance release which when I took over the aircraft was squeaky clean.

So what about the hidden alternator control circuit breaker? If one wriggled oneself under the instrument panel to fit the rudder gust lock, the defect was clear. In the Baron, the elevator and aileron control lock consists of a large metal pin that in turn fits into a matching channel drilled in the axis of the master control column. Attached to this pin by a length of retaining wire is a metal bar, designed to be placed in between the rudder pedals, so forming a rudder lock.

On this particular Baron, the wire was too short and it took a lot of fiddling under the instrument panel to fit the rudder lock correctly. When so fitted, the retaining wire came up hard against the side of the hidden alternator control circuit breaker. Apparently when I removed the gust lock mechanism at Bairnsdale, the retaining wire jagged the collar of the circuit breaker, pulling it out.

Unwittingly I then flew two sectors at night on battery power alone - including two engine starts. With the absence of alternator warning lights (remember they had been removed from their sockets) to indicate all was not well, I did not monitor the load meters closely. And when the battery gave up the ghost 35 miles from Essendon, the load meters showed a slightly positive needle position only because it was their electrical zero.

I lost my job with that company. No reason was given but I knew that it was because I didn’t cut corners fast enough. Three months later that same Baron still had no alternator warning lights, no decal to indicate the whereabouts of the hidden alternator control circuit breaker under the instrument panel, and the wire of the control lock mechanism was still too short- it still passed within a cat’s whisker of the circuit breaker collar. Despite these defects, the maintenance release stayed clean – except for a tiny stain of dried blood in one corner.

Oh yes – I almost forgot to add that the reason for the jamming of the emergency gear handle was damage to its mechanism probably caused by heavy freight resting on it. The protective heavy plastic cover in place to protect the handle from external forces, had shattered from years of abuse. This aircraft had passed numerous previous scheduled inspections - speaking volumes for the standard of maintenance countenanced by its owner and the complacent attitude of the GA pilots who flew it.

Two years passed and I rejoined my former airline which by now had changed management. While boarding a flight to some exotic Pacific destination I met the first officer whose face seemed familiar from years gone by. We shook hands in the cockpit and I offered him the first leg to fly. Then I realized where I had seen him before. Two years back he was a chief pilot that had told me he refused to employ either ex-airline or military pilots as they couldn’t hack GA. With the boot on the other foot, it seemed churlish to bring up the subject again. It was better to let bygones be bygones.

[NoTrainingWheel]

Quite illuminating! Not sure I'd be happy having one of my kids (both very interested in flying) doing time in GA regardless of the very real benefit of accruing PIC time.

[TriMedGroup]

Come on Centaurus all that and no plug for the book? Bloody excellent read and I would recommend it to everyone out there!

[UnaMas]

Thanks for posting that mate, its always good to read about the experiences of others, especially those more experienced then me.
Makes me wonder how I would go in that situation...

[kalavo]

After reading Centaurus's story, I think it would be criminal of me not to mention battery powered headlamps rather than a handheld torch for anyone flying single pilot at night. The ability to have both hands free, especially for a situation as Centaurus describes could make a huge difference in the safe outcome of the flight, without having to rely on decades of experience to do it the way taught in flying schools (ie one hand holding the torch, or torch in the mouth).

My personal preference is to turn it on for T/O until above LSALT and back on again approaching LSALT until landing. If anything should happen to the electrics, there's no stuffing around, just keep flying as normal and change your underwear after landing. Leaning over to pick up a torch on a dark night may result in the leans, or a change in attitude with minimal time to recognise and correct the situation on a dark night.

I like the push button rather than the slide switches, e.g.

Energizer 6 LED Headlight Headlamp Head Light Lamp (eBay item 150577267533 end time 14-Apr-11 11:08:31 AEST) : Electronics (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Energizer-6-LED-Headlight-Headlamp-Head-Light-Lamp-/150577267533?pt=AU_Torches&hash=item230f1ac34d)

as they are less likely to turn themselves on in the Navbag and flatten the battery.

Note: I have nothing to do with the ebay seller above and got mine from a local store, but Energizer's website's playing up for me at the moment.

[frigatebird]

Centaurus....:D


battery powered headlamps


When the cap with the three leds on the peak was donned to free a hand from a torch in the under-illuminated front end of a Twotter, the Kiwi chief pilot asked if there was a set of Mickey Mouse ears in the navbag too..!

[gaunty]

Mr Sunfish

Its been a while since I was hereabouts and have enjoyed your pasts in the past.

I would howver warn the tyros against the approach (whilst clever) you suggest.

My CP and I have much better things to do with our precious time than play this sort of game with an aspiring pilot and there is not much they can add to our knowledge bank that is worth the time.

CFI's got it right.

Oh and recently someone actually broke through looking for a job, he lucked in as I answered the phone whilst the the operator was taking a bathroom break and everybody else was at lunch. Ooops now there's a slip. :p Any road, I was offered a short lecture on how his brilliant personal flying skills would somehow make us totally irresistable to potential clients. On being told that he was considerably short on our jet requirements (none at all) and nowadays the only way I could see to attain said relevant experience was to join a Bona Fide airline cadet scheme, like Qantas, Virgin of Jetstar, forget the "commercial" schemes, I was informed that this route was generally unacceptable to pilots.:{
Could he send me a CV anyway? :ugh:

Dont get me wrong, I am all for getting youngsters and new blood in the system, we too have been grappling with the problem for yonks and making some progress. Someone just needs to get it into their heads that having a pilots license and being able to fly an aircraft is nowadays only mildly interesting, it is a comprehensive knowledge of world class best practise and safety management systems (something not part of the current syllabus) and a willingness to sign on to that idea as the major part of their life that will make the difference for the pilot of the future.:)

[The Wawa Zone]

Centaurus, great story. I just knew the punch line would be no bulbs in the sockets :) One thing GA is good for is that it teaches suspicion of everything.