spin, stall & first solo scary?

[SPL-101]

Hey guys

This is abit of a weird post but im going to ask anyway. Im going to be
starting my PPL course very soon with Whitworth Aviation and my whole life Ive wanted to fly and become a pilot, if not that then something else in aviation. However now that Im so close to it, Ive started to get butterflys. The thought of me doing spins and stalls and flying by myself is really getting to me. I sit down and watch videos of others doing all that and i get really excited and cant wait to start doing that soon but when I sit down and start to think about it, i get butterflys. Now my question is: Is this normal? Did you guys feel like that before you started your course? What was your mentality/attitude as you started your course and did your first solo. Im not saying that im wussing out or that scared of flying. Thats why i dont know why i have these feelings, because im not scared of flying and have wanted this my whole life. Is this the wrong attitude to have when starting this course?

Thanks

[RadioSaigon]

Don't over-think it, just get in amongst it. You'll be fine.

[orangeboy]

Don't worry, getting butterflies is perfectly normal, its probably largely due to the fact that you don't know what to expect yet until you've actually flown a few times. You'll be taught to recognise the symptoms of an approaching stall and spin, so just try and enjoy it as much as you can! I actually enjoyed my lessons on stalls, quite fun actually.

Might see you at whitty's one day :ok:

[Ixixly]

Perfectly normal!! I'm still pretty fresh myself with only just over 450hrs, but i've decided that theres nothing wrong with some butterflies, infact its beneficial, and others with far more experience agree with me. Its those butterflies that will stop you getting complacent and/or sloppy and making silly mistakes.

The real trick is not to let those nerves overcome you, but let them work to your advantage by using them to keep you on your toes and vigilant for problems that may occur!

[SgtBundy]

I did gliding with the AIRTC back when I was 15. Due to some logistics issues I was late to the course, so I missed some of the initial ground briefings and lessons. To catch up I did a few quick flights and progressed well, enjoying my time - I was actually comfortable taking off and being towed in the first few flights and had a handle on it, and was getting smug when one of my first landings was near pin point accurate. One instructor even did a few aerobatics for me which was fun. :ok:

Then I switched instructor. His first words were "we are doing spins, if you don't recover, we crash". Not knowing better this made me nervous. Having not done the ground training and rushed late to the course, I actually had little idea what I was supposed to do. Up we went, and for the first time I nearly had the tow plane drop the rope on me because I was all over the shop with nerves. That only increased the berating from the instructor. When it came to the spins I was sweating bullets and getting berated for being rough with the controls. In the end when I calmed down and had another go it was dead simple and I was wondering what the drama was about and actually enjoyed doing it.

Moral: be prepared and just focus on what you need to do. Also your instructor is just as interested in survival as you are (typically) so even if it takes a few goes you are unlikely to get into trouble.:ok:

Now that I have started my powered training I find its sort of like driving a car. The first few times you are nervous and have trouble just handling the controls. After a while the controls are second nature. As you progress it just becomes more natural and you find your capacity freed up to plan what you are doing rather than think about how you execute it.

[ReverseFlight]

I felt a bit sick with my first spin but in a full aerobatic aircraft it is actually fun, to the extent I wanted to hold the spin forever and see how many I can do before recovering ... :eek:

First solos are a blast. Freedom at last ! :ok:

[PyroTek]

I remember doing powered stalls in a 152. Wing dropped to such an extent that we we became nose down diving to the ground, never had so much fun in my life!
Aerobatics lessons are high priority for me now :ok:
I was more excited than scared, butterflies yes, but hey, if I was going to hit the ground in an aeroplane, I'd die happy :cool: (Not that that is advisable)

[Ted D Bear]

starting my PPL course very soon with Whitworth Aviation


Don't worry - Bill will put you at ease :ok:

[SPL-101]

Hey Guys

Thanks for all the advice and sharing your own experiences with me. Im actually looking forward to the stall and spin training but still I needed to know if feeling like this was normal or I was just being a "wuss". I did a trial introductory flight with Basair a few months ago in a 152, there was quite a bit of crosswind that day and we did a few steep turns, all in all it was a bit of a bumpy ride but i didnt vomit. I hope i don't vomit during the spin training. Has it happened to any of you guys? I picked Whitworth A, because theres alot of good feedback about him on this forum and according to the school he has over 40000 hours.

@orangeboy, im doing the PPL course part time, but hopefully ill see you around there.

Take care everyone

[orangeboy]

i'm sure i'll see you around! whose your instructor there?

[SPL-101]

Hey orangeboy

I dont know who my instructor is yet as I havent started the course yet, I will be starting in 3-4weeks time, once my uni timetable is 100% fixed but I was talking with Mitchell Adams the other day and he seemed like a really nice guy and expercienced pilot/instructor so hopefully I might get him. Also, as you know they don't have an enrollment system, he told me whenever i was ready, to just call up n organise the first lesson.

Cya

[Fragnasty]

Recognising and recovering from a stall is an essential part of pilot training, and is a skill you should never forget. The process then takes you further by giving you the same training with incipient spinning, along with fully developed spins - both upright and inverted if you're lucky enough. It's nothing to fear. A good instructor will lead you through the process, and should never put you in a position that you don't have the training to recover from.

Just my ten cents worth. And if you get the chance, do inverted spins - so much fun!!

[Centaurus]

fully developed spins - both upright and inverted if you're lucky enough. It's nothing to fear.

Ah yes..the dreaded inverted spin. Nothing to fear? Tell that to the RAAF test pilot who was tasked how to recover from an inverted spin in the Macchi advanced jet trainer. Two aircraft had already crashed during attempted recovery from inverted spins although fortunately the crews ejected successfully. One of the instructors had one eye shoved into its socket during the ejection sequence. Nah! Nothing to fear ar all..

The test pilot recorded around 100 inverted spins with his description varying from absolutely horrifying to blood dangerous. Rates of descent up to 18,000 feet per minute if I recall my conversation with him correctly. Aircraft sometimes tumbling head over tail like those crazy aeros in Pitts Specials.

Inverted spinning with one tip tank empty and the opposite tip tank full. He was nearly forced to eject several times. His report was a masterpiece of understatement and his recommendation in the end was not to get into a inverted spin in the first place. Relax in retirement, Flight Lieutenant Max Loves - you should have been awarded an AFC for that work.

Normal spins should provoke little fear once you have done a few but take an umbrella with you and float down like Mary Poppins if you are foolish enough to play around with inverted spins on purpose.

[paperjets]

Getting butterflies is normal.. Dont worry man, you will feel ease when you have learnt to deal with it.

[flyinkiwi]

SPL, I was exactly where you are, I would get wound up about flying more than I liked. It came to a head when I did my Wing Drop Stalls lesson (my school doesn't teach fully developed spinning to PPLs). The best thing I did at the time was as we were lining up to depart and my instructor asked me if I am OK I told him I was very nervous about this lesson. I guess he already knew but he took it to heart. 1.1 hours later he had cured me of any apprehension and I was entering and recovering on my own and having a real blast to boot. I went out alone on the very next lesson and did them by myself. Fear of the unknown is perfectly normal, just trust in your instructors judgment and you'll start to relax and enjoy the lesson.

[Sunfish]

Be careful of spinning and be especially careful of people who say "it's easy", "Its fun!". Do not dick around with this manouvre.

1. Spin recovery is not part of the PPL syllabus. It is not part because too many people got killed practising. You will have a spin demonstrated to you so that you can recognise it. You read the book about how to recover. If you do it in a C150 Aerobat you will get quite a surprise.

2. The dynamics of spinning are complicated. It is possible for aircraft, even aerobatic aircraft, to get into unrecoverable spins if they are mishandled or loaded with the CG too far aft. There may also be certain loading conditions, for example, the Alpha 160 has a prohibition about doing aeros with more than a certain amount of fuel in its tank.

3. If you want to get used to the idea of recovering from a spin, get an aerobatic instructor to teach you "recovery from unusual attitudes".

4. Some but not all aircraft will recover themselves (pop out) from a spin if the controls are released, but this only has to be demonstrated after a Three turn spin, not a flat spin. Some aircraft will not recover at all from a spin, or only with difficulty - which is why it says "spinning prohibited" in the POH.

5. You will no doubt learn the straight stall in the clean condition, it is generally a non event provided you are not some over confident prick who decides to experiment a little. You should learn the stall in approach configuration, power on stall and stall off a turn, but I'm not sure these are part of the CASA syllabus. If necessary find that aeros instructor again.

6. The reason I said "find that aeros instructor again" is that the combination of a low level stall in a cross controlled aircraft, perhaps trying to salvage a bad approach in turning to final, is followed by a spin with no height for recovery, and these stall/spin accidents kill a lot of people.

Older and wiser heads can contradict me. I almost gave up flying the first time a spin was demonstrated to me, so I went and did some aerobatics to get used to the idea. It is not a manoeuvre you want to teach yourself or mess around with in anything but a fully aerobatic aircraft.

[SPL-101]

Hey Guys

Thanks for all the replies, it has really put my mind at ease. Like I said I am looking forward to the training, but I know there isnt any spin training in the PPL course but Ill probably be doing it once i start CPL training. Sunfish, I think I might take your advice and take up an aerobatic course before starting the CPL. Also, just for the record I dont think Ill be experimenting with any maneuvers up there. Anyways, thanks again for the advice.

Cya

[orangeboy]

my instructor is Mitch!

goodluck with your training! i'm sure i'll see u out there! i drive an orange car hence the name LOL :}

[Tankengine]

SgtBundy,
Assuming you flew at the Cadets at Bathurst I can guess which Instructor talked like that!:ugh: [The W^*$£%& with the Yak and flight suit etc?]

SPL-101,
As long as you have a good Instructor [most] then they will train you at the speed at which you can learn.:ok: [even if it seems like a lot of work at times]

Most of all - enjoy it!:)

[SPL-101]

Thanks Tankengine, like i said Im really looking forward to it, but can't help feel abit tense about the whole concept of flying a plane by myself anyways ill take your advice onboard and enjoy every minute of it.

take care

[Speedbird 9]

Bill Whitworth does not do any spinning in his warriors

[Critical Reynolds No]

Speaking of being sick, I was profoundly sick the first few times before I went solo. Wasn't fun but your body gets used to it. Coming up to 20 years and a few thousand hours under the belt and nothing since. Well apart from being sick in the back of a DC-3 on a severe turb day after a full night on the cans capped off by a dodgy kebab!

I think Chuck Yeager mentioned he was crook the first few times as well.

[SPL-101]

Speedbird 9, I know we won't be doing spin training during PPL but what about CPL, no spin training during that too?

Critical Reynolds No, ill make sure i don't have any kebabs before i go up if i do get sick ill just have to get used too it and let time do its job.

Cya

[Sunfish]

I was almost sick when I started aerobatics. I asked a DAME about the dizziness and he simply told me "you will get used to the motion and it will go away".

It did. :ok:

[flyboy_nz]

SPL -101, good luck with your training, you will enjoy the ride. Don't worry about motion sickness, you will get over it. I did within the first few hours. Always come prepared for your lessons, research the questions you have, put in the effort and you will be rewarded well for it.

Your first solo flight will be your most memorable flight. I can still remember each and every detail of mine even though I did mine 9 years ago. I did a go-around just so I could do another circuit.

Stalls are nothing to be scared of. The main thing is to get a feel for the aircraft and know when she is approaching the stall, so you don't let it get that far in the first place.

Spinning is a must. It is good fun, but the idea behind it is to make you a safer and more proficient pilot in handling of the aircraft. And remember, it is not a developed spin, unless you have done two full turns. I have seen instructors teach their students 'spinning' by showing a wing drop and recovering it :ugh:

Some days, you will do well, some days you will just feel like jumping out or killing your instructor, all part of the learning experience. When you will get your licence it will all be worth it.

[Brian Abraham]

Centaurus, nothing wrong with inverted spins if your in the right aircraft and have the requisite training. Course mate Peter Clark (RIP - big C) ejected from a Macchi at Jervis Bay with his instructor, which I presume is one of the inverted spin accidents you refer to. Our ab initio training on the T-34 included inverted spins, usually only a demonstration if I recall, but a instructor with the right temperament would give you a go.

It is not part because too many people got killed practising

Not too sure about that Sunny, not too many aircraft about these days that are spinnable in any event. The only spinning accident I recall from an intentional spin was a RNSW Aero Club Chipmunk where a two bob piece jammed the stick when recovery was attempted. Spinning was part of the PPL course in the Tiger Moth, Chipmunk, Victa days. Some Tigers and Chipmunks were fitted with anti spin strakes on the horizontal stab to address some perceived spinning issues. Never flew any with strakes fitted, but the standard Chippy and Tiger had no problem providing you did it (recovery) by the book. CASAs predecessor did ban Chippy spins for a very brief period, may have been till they sorted the RNSW accident - too long ago to state the reason with certainty. People could get into trouble by not waiting long enough for the recovery action to begin having effect, and then start trying something else, which was guaranteed to fail. The Tigers spin was a leisurely affair as I remember from these 44 years distant, where as the Chippy generated more excitement, not so leisurely and the canopy banging (noise) around on its runners. But still no big deal - well not until Clem Atkins RVAC tried teaching me recovery from spins on basic instruments in the Chippy.

SPL-101, go ahead and have fun. :ok:

[djpil]

Happened to have dinner recently with an ex-instructor who used to demo inverted spins in the Macchi - wish this thread had been a bit further advanced a few days ago.

Chipmunk spin characteristics attracted enough interest in the '50s for the Department to spin test each and every example on the register - report stated "complete confidence in the spinning recovery characteristics of the Chipmunk and fully endorses the technique prescribed by the manufacturer."
I note my opinion that it would not meet the later FAR 23 spin and recovery requirement.

As for Sunfish's comment It is possible for aircraft, even aerobatic aircraft, to get into unrecoverable spins if they are mishandled or ... an aircraft certified in the aerobatic category will not get into an unrecoverable spin even if it is mishandled. No guarantees on Experimental or Limited aircraft approved for aerobatics. There is one aircraft type approved for aerobatics here but intentional spinning is prohibited as it quickly enters an unrecoverable spin.

And Sunfish's other comment Spin recovery is not part of the PPL syllabus ... it is optional in the PPL syllabus and I'd say that, at Moorabbin, there are more PPL students who do spinning as part of their PPL than those who do not.

[Jack Ranga]

Aerobatics should be a part of the PPL syllabus (but never will be!) And it's not just for fun. It gives you the confidence that you can recover the aircraft from any attitude. They also give you the confidence to manouvre the aircraft in a smooth positive way.

A mate of mine did his PPL at a Bankstown school with aerobatics as part of 'their' syllabus. The difference between his and my flying skills with around the same hours were stark :ouch:

Find the money somehow to do aerobatics as soon as you can :ok:

Good Luck :ok:

[Centaurus]

It came to a head when I did my Wing Drop Stalls lesson

Now that's a new one. What is a wing drop stall and in what type of aircraft? And how does the instructor force the aircraft into a wing drop at the stall when it is designed not to drop a wing by virtue of its certification?

I know of one experienced instructor who for instance teaches the "wing drop stall" by pulling back on the stick until the aircraft is pointing skywards by 45 degrees or more than whacking on hard rudder to force a wing drop. The aircraft which is a relatively new design of five years old will normally never drop a wing and in fact the thing just flutters downwards wings level with full back stick.

It was designed to be safe to the most inexperienced pilot. So what's the point is making the aircraft drop a wing artificially by violent manoeuvres so outlandish that no sane student would ever find himself in that situation..

Now about this "wing drop stall"....

[Sunfish]

I bow to your experience Djpl, sorry I didn't get the chance to catch up at Avalon, once that gentleman started talking I couldn't get away......

From what I heard at YMMB someone managed to get an alpha 160 "stuck" in a spin and had to get it out by unconventional means (rocking?). It always came out with a boot full of rudder whenever I tried it though.

[djpil]

Yep, one too often hears about people being stuck in a spin. The last one I spoke to did not use the correct recovery technique or in other words did something contrary to the flight manual and the placard in front of his nose. He is spinning quite happily now.

See you at the next event, Sunfish.

[Tankengine]

Centaurus,
A Cessna 150/152 does very gentle stalls, except if put into a gentle right hand turn with partial power.:E
In this state it will quickly turn left at the stall [dropping left wing if you like!]:eek:
I used to show all my students this once they were comfortable with more normal stalls.
Many aircraft which are normally benign have one combination which is interesting.:E
It is a pity so many Pilots make it through their training without even seeing a spin.:ugh:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

A Cessna 150/152 does very gentle stalls, except if put into a gentle right hand turn with partial power.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif??

The C150 that I learnt to fly in (VH-DTE - its still around!) some 37 years ago would drop a wing big time if stalled with 20o flap and 1800 rpm. I still remember my intro to stalls - I couldn't really understand what all the fuss was about until I got to that one. I gave a very good crow call (FAAAAAAAARK!) as it fell out of the sky.

Its been a few years since I instructed in the Traumahawk but I seem to recall that it would also occassionally not play nicely.

The FTDK will do the same thing if provoked, but gives much more warning than I recall from the C150.

I think the BE35 is a very docile aeroplane, and you would have to have your brain in neutral to inadvertantly stall it, but someone must have decided that it wasn't docile enough cause later model BE36s have ugly looking wedge things attached to the outter leading edge of the wing to make them even more docile. Always seemed to me to be a very lazy way to solve a non-existant problem - and ruined the look of a beautiful aeroplane.

Dr :8

[Tankengine]

Yep, I forgot the flap, they drop the left wing under power so I used to demo from a right turn. Of course the last of my 1000hrs+ instructing in two seat Cessnas was 25 years ago - I presume they still fly like that!:E
"flow strips" on Traumahawks killed it's spinning as well! They were scary though when you turned around and looked at the tail!:eek:
Just look at the Beech 1900 to see a poorly designed airframe.:yuk:

[john_tullamarine]

Just look at the Beech 1900 to see a poorly designed airframe

.. like many aircraft, the 1900 has some flight test fixes evident here and there.

However, what specific and objective deficiencies can you cite to justify the comment that it is "a poorly designed airframe" ?

[M14_P]

Reverseflight,

I like your style. Get yourself in a Pitts, and a decent instructor, and go check out inverted spinning, really good fun. :)

If aerobatics was outlawed tomorrow, I would damn near walk away from aviation, such is my passion for aerobatic flight, some would call it obsession... Anyone who is knew, or not to this game, aerobatic training is a must. It will improve your situational awareness and ability like you couldn't possibly believe. I'd compare it to doing a full drift course at a race circuit, compared to working the indicators, pressing a pedal or two during a normal driving test.....

Tankengine, it is wrong, purely and simple. Spinning should be a requirement, not an option, for the PPL. It used to be, when trainees flew unstable taildragger biplanes. A Tiger will not fly straight without exactly the right inputs, I learn something new with them every time I go up. Now we have simple, boring, predictable, stable, easy, simple, did I say boring trainers that simply don't allow students to develop feel for the machine in those early days of training.
The problem is, the general perception is that taildraggers are differcult, that is how they are portrayed at many institutions, and so students get put off them.
a year ago or so, I was trying to explain adverse yaw to a student, in a cherokee...and it was really differcult to get them to see what the nose does...but I remember when I had a go in an Auster, how pronounced it was, I reckon everyone should do their medium turns lesson in an Auster. Gorgeous aeroplane. :p

[Speedbird 9]

No spinning whatsoever in the Day VFR syllabus at Whitworth Aviation. However many stalling sessions. Don't worry the training is great fun.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Auster. Gorgeous aeroplane. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/tongue.gif

You gotta be kidding! I have flown three Austers: J1B, J5B and J5F - used to tow gliders in the J5B.

Wouldn't give you two cents for any of them.

Dr :8

[Tankengine]

Huge thread drift but simply look at the 1900!
To need that amount of fiddling to certify indicates poor design.The Kingair from which it grew did not need so many fins and strakes.:rolleyes:

[M14_P]

djpil,

the Chippy is an intriguing machine to spin that's for sure... Looking through the book, all this reference to forward, if not full forward stick to initiate recovery didn't conform to all the others I have spun....but it's try, full opp rudder will not get a Chippy out...This one had the flow strips down the fuse to the leading edge of the horizontal stabiliser. No wonder so many crashed, pilots couldn't get their heads around it.
I practiced them in this machine from 7500ft as I wanted to look at use of power and aileron etc. Very, very interesting, couldn't be any more different!

[M14_P]

Fork,
I have a rating (bugger all time) in them, they go like buses, handle like vans, but they are gorgeous come on. :)

[Nadzab]

spin, stall & first solo scary?

Only if they all occur during the same flight :}

then you know that you probably need more lessons. ;)

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Hey Mr 'M14',

Reur 'no wonder so many crashed'......How many do you reckon..??

I am very well aware of Dear A K and the coin jamming the stick...A K was one of my instructors waaay back when....

How many others do you reckon..??

I am genuinely interested as I learned in Chippys - never had that problem - AS I am still here to prove it - and as 'life' would have it, have just bought one....

Like I said - genuinely interested....

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Mr '101,....

If / when you get the chance, ask Bill to take you up and show you how.

But as has been said - do NOT do all 3 of your 'things to do' on the same flight! Your Mum will NOT be impressed!!

Its a bit like your first nookie I reckon.....a little apprehensive at first - but then - WOW! And you'll be back for more.....

Sorry to youse 'more purer than me' types.....

But, then I just call it like it is!!

Apart from that - Wot Mr Abraham said!!!

Cheers:ok:

[Runaway Gun]

SPL-101, don't be too worried about this. You're only concerned about this because it's all a bit of an 'unknown'. You don't really understand the technicalities behind stalling and spinning, nor do you know how you'll feel during such exercises. It's natural that you may feel a bit apprehensive (and excited).

Just do sufficient pre-flight study for all of your lessons, and ask your instructor relevant questions before the flight, during the brief.

Sickness doesn't affect too many people - and if it does it tends to go away after a few flights.

Remember: Knowledge dispels Fear.

[Slasher]

The thought of me doing spins and stalls and flying by myself is really getting to me

Yeh me too - a real hankering. I need to get out of these
bloody idiotic Airbuses and just do some REAL flying for a
change. Would do me the world of good!

I learnt to fly in a DH82 where spins, stalls and some aeros
were part and parcel of the Tiger endorsement. Great gobs
of fun, especially loops.

Enjoy yer solo mate, but once your PPL'd don't make the
mistake of aeroing your CPL training money away like I
did. Put me 6 months behind my training schedule and
heaps of extra pizza deliverys. :rolleyes:

[Dangnammit]

I did spinning in the right hand seat as part of FIR training in an aerobat. I think learning how to recover the wing dropped stall is enough up to that point. I say that because we we didn't have a spin approved aircraft in the fleet and if we did, perhaps I would have learnt it earlier.
I was pretty nervous going up after looking at youtube and reading about it. After the first demo, I started nailing them perfectly (re: power settings etc.) on the 3rd go because the information & sensation overload goes away. Everybody is different, one guy came back a little worse for wear but I absolutely loved it.

You must take each lesson as it comes and you'll find clean, power off stalls a non event (before first solo).

RGun is spot on- knowledge dispels fear.

[Nulli Secundus]

However now that Im so close to it, Ive started to get butterflys.

"Nothing wrong with butterflies, we simply have to teach them to fly in formation" - Katherine Hepburn

You'll be fine!

Good Luck;)

[bushy]

I remember, when the dinosaurs roamed the earth, I had been training with the gliding club, doing five minute flights with winch tows. Progress was too slow so I went to the aero club and soloed in their brand new Piper cub. I was the ace of the base. I knew it.
A group of us bought a Slingsby tutor, single seat glider. Soon I got to fly that on an aero tow behind a tiger. I found found lift, but it soon died so I turned back to find it again. Soon tthe nose was pointed to the ground and I could see a fence going round and around in the windscreen. I pulled the stick right back into the corner and put on opposite rudder. The stick did not work, but the rudder did. Soon, despite my efforts it righted itself and I sat there wondering what had happened. I had read about such things. Soon I found more lift and repeated the same process. The rotten thing spun again. I still had plenty of height, but had had enough, so went back and landed. So spin training was obviously needed. I went straight to the aero club and Paul the instructor greeted me by saying "I hear you went for a spin in the tutor" I was not amused,but managed to persuade him to pull a tiger moth out of the hangar and take me for some spin recovery training.
And I was never ever again the ace of the base. I learned a lot that day.

And I see many accident reports that show pilots died after accidentally spinning their aeroplanes at low level. Small and big aeroplanes do it. Airline and military and light aircraft pilots do it.
One of the most important things I read was in a Beechcraft manual. They pointed out that many, many accidents are caused by inadvertent stalls and spins. They advised pilots to never stall or spin their eroplane. Sound advice, but to avoid stalls and spins you need training in both.

[SPL-101]

Hey Guys

Thanks for all the advice you have given, it has really helped. Since Ive joined this forum, everything has become so much clearer from reading the older posts of other guys. Im really looking forward to the training and can't wait, every minute im on the comp I just watch videos of other peoples training. Thanks again everyone.

Happy Landings :ok:

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

G'Day '101',

Don't worry too much about the IMPRESSIONS gained by watching other peoples videos.....

Sometimes when watching Hollywood produced car chases for example, when the vision is shot from within the vehicle, you get the false impression that the car is about to roll....

However, when YOU drive YOUR car, you know that is NOT the case...because YOU are in control and you gain a different impression.

No different to watching a video of a steep landing approach - you may get the impression that you are about to 'spear in'...however, you know that as you round out , this all changes...

Go and listen to your instructor, and most of all, enjoy....

Cheers:ok:

[SPL-101]

Ex FSO GRIFFO (http://www.pprune.org/members/86703-ex-fso-griffo)

Thanks for the advice. You are completely right about the videos. However I only watch them for entertainment purposes and not to see if I can pick up some techniques. Ill leave that part up to my instructor. Thanks again.

Take Care

[Fliegenmong]

I do very clearly remember my first lessons in stall / spin recovery, an image indelibly in my consciousness...

Having done a heap with RC models and spent the week prior studying the basic aerodynamics of it all...I understood it...I was still apprehensive about going out to actually do it....my ex (Airline DC-9 / 727 Check captain, instructor) with God knows how many hours experience was the same, that just nailed home how much this was not to be trifled with.....

That image indelibly branded into my consciousness?? We were flying an AustFlight Drifter A582,

JetPhotos.Net Aviation Photos-Aircraft Search: Austflight Drifter A-582 (http://jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?aircraft=Austflight%20Drifter%20A-582)

Now seeing the Earth rotate, whilst slung against the shoulder straps looking over the top of the plexi-glass windscreen, realising if it weren't for the shoulder straps you may well be free falling looking back up at the aircraft spinning from a different perspective was very much attention grabbing..........without flaps we used to fly these things into marginal strips slide slipping.....crossed controls......I know I know......(Of course we'd add 5-10kt as a safety margin the Pitot was on one side so healthy disrespect of the ASI was de rigueur , it all became an inate sense of 'feel'....or...'touch'...still some of the best damn fun I've ever had with my clothes on :ok:...

Twas a lovely stick and rudder aircraft that A582, taught you all about adverse yaw and other such intricacies and set you up in tail dragger aircraft straight off....years later I amused myself with a glider course...instructor was ever so impressed with how I could 'dance the pedals' once on the ground.....tail dragger experience you see.....certain aircraft demand that those 'foot rests' be 'engaged'..............

Stall the wing and initiate an auto-rotation (Spin) is a neat little trick....but not one to **** up........Plan it, mentally prepare it, go over it again, ensure the CofG is not Aft, and ENJOY! Personally my greatest enjoyment is not entering auto-rotation, but the clean and precise exit from it........ :ok::p

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Interesting post given that, the way I read it, deliberate spins are prohibited in the Austflight Drifter A-582!

Dr :8

[Fliegenmong]

My apologies fork, we did not 'lock in', rather it was incipient spin training, and the instinctive recovery action, not at all unlike a stall and the instinctive recovery action.....................it taught me not to stall, if I did stall, I would not spin, but IF I did stall and spin higher up I could recover...hell I could do it for amusement...but I was not ever ever going to Stall/spin on approach, a very healthy appreciation of it I had........

This was back about 92-93 I think..........

[M14_P]

Slasher, come on, you only live once, it is far too much fun, to be boring and fly with the sky on top. :)

I don't know a staggering amount, but have heard stories from the RAF days of operating the DHC1, where there were alot of accidents were pilots spun in. Fairly quickly.
When I came back from my first flight in one I couldn't work it out, to get out of a spin you must stop the rotation then unstall the wings, but in this instance, unstalling the wings helped both stop rotation and get out of the manoeuvre. In everything else I have spun (probably a dozen types) this was the only machine where the technique is different.
They are the nicest handling aeroplane I have ever flown though, anyone else agree? :)

[M14_P]

Spins and stalling, no big deal, keep it straight and watch your airspeed! A plane cannot spin if it is flying in balance!! :)

[Tee Emm]

Over West Sale at 8000 ft in a Wirraway. CFS instructor in the front seat acting as student (former Spitfire pilot during war over Europe). I was a trainee instructor on Instructors Course.

CFS bloke takes control and says assume he is student and I have just demo'd a spin. He will be Bloggs. He pulls the Wirra up high and kicks on full rudder. It spins and spins and spins. I say that is good Bloggs - now recover, please.
Bloggs keeps on spinning. I say sternly "RECOVER BLOGGS"
"Sorry Sir" says Bloggs in falsetto voice," but I don't know what to do next".

"Taking over Blogs" sez kindly 23 year old trainee instructor in back seat of Wirra where I can see bugger all.

Controls jammed in full pro-spin positions and Wirra has by now really wound up and West Sale aerodrome is rapidly growing bigger like my eyes under the goggles.

"LET GO OF THE CONTROLS, BLOGGS!!" "Can't sir, I have frozen on 'em"

Having done about ten turns the time had come for action even though I knew the instructor was having a lend of me. But he was a RAF Flight Lieutenant and I a lowly Sergeant in the back seat.

"I HAVE CONTROL BLOGGS"
but the bugger wouldn't release the controls
This idiot is nuts I thought and now getting seriously concerned and wondering when is the time for me to leap out and use my parachute.

"BLOGGS (Sir) YOU BLOODY IDIOT (Sir) - LET GO OF THE :mad: CONTROLS" I roared over the intercom.

Immediately the controls became free and I recovered around 2000 ft. From the front cockpit came the friendly advice of "That's the way Sergeant - don't be afraid to swear loudly to the student rather than a polite calm approach -especially if he has frozen on the controls in a spin"

Lesson learned the hard way although fortunately I had never had to use his advice.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

"BLOGGS (Sir) YOU BLOODY IDIOT (Sir) - LET GO OF THE http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gif CONTROLS" I roared over the intercom.
In a side-by-side aircraft, a good whack with the fire extinguisher will have the same effect!

Dr :8

[Brian Abraham]

They are the nicest handling aeroplane I have ever flown though, anyone else agree?There are those who should know who say it handles just like a Spitfire. Wish I could find out if they're right!!!

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Six numbers Mr 'BA'....just six little numbers.......

Cheers:ok:

[PyroTek]

In a side-by-side aircraft, a good whack with the fire extinguisher will have the same effect!

I'm sure my ERSA would have a similar effect, less blood, bruising, and easy to get at.

[SPL-101]

Hey guy's

Just thought I'd give you all an update. Ive been studying at Whitworths for about 3 weeks now & I had my first Stall lesson today. It was great fun and really wasn't as bad as it was made out. The Warrior didn't really want to stall so I really had to pull back to get it going. Recovering from it was easy enough, letting the control collumn go seemed to be enough. I was abit nervous but towards the end I was enjoying it, maybe abit too much. Thanks for all the help and advice you all gave.

Happy Landings

[Kickatinalong]

Remember SPL neither Bill or any of his Instructors will let you get them into any position they can't recover from, if they can then they will teach you how to do the same. I can still remember all the hypo abt Stalls & Spins , they grow on you, you will learn to love'm.

[MikeTangoEcho]

Did some spin recovery as part of the instructor course.

INSANE!

I had done aerobatic 'spins' as part of the endo but nothing like these ones. Let go of the controls and watch it go haha they were great fun. Very strange to feel an aircraft moving about quite rapidly with the needle firmly planted on the ASI at zero in the left spin.

As far as stalling goes, I had my reservations when I first started training thats for sure. Thought about stopping because of an incipient spin! Just couldn't handle them or even the thought of them.

A bit of practise and being voluntarily thrown in the deep end with the aero's cleared that right up :8 I found it really helped to know what you can put an aircraft through before being completely comfortable throwing one around, but of course it's a bit of a catch 22 because you don't know unless you get in and do it!

You'll be fine, glad to hear you got through the first of your stalls without issue.

[Bastardos]

Hi M14

Yep, I have ratings in the chippy, tiger and harvard.

I did the tiger first and spin recovery certainly was gentle. The procedure for the chippy is the same (full opp rudder, pause 1 second, smoothly push forward, rotate stop, centre rudder, ease out of dive, blah, blah.)

What did surprise me with the chippy was the real push that was required. At the end I was using both hands and really shoving her, and then having to go close to vertical to get a good recovery. In the RAF handling notes, there is a comment that in some cases, spin recovery is not possible - maybe a really aft c of g?

My tiger has the spin stakes fitted. These were fitted during the war, when it was discovered that in some cases the tiger didnt want to recover. Apparently it was really to do with the bomb racks that were fitted to some of them at the time. I have left them on for originality, but have never had any concerns)

Watching Dave Phillps routine in the tiger - there is a pilot who can spin a tiger well!!

[Bastardos]

Oh, and yes, the chippy is the nicest balanced aircraft that I have flown!

I have been fortunate enough to have logged 1.5hours in a Mk IX spitfire, and in the circuit, once it had slowed up, it felt just like the chippy in terms of control harmonisation, just a bit heavier (and delightfully weird with the spade up near chest height)