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BabyBear
5th Mar 2011, 16:19
To keep it simple; I have been at a bit of a dead end with the challenges of GA flying and the associated costs and where to go with it all (to those that are going to comment they have heard it all before and are already formulating their demeaning responses in their minds simply stop reading and go elsewhere).

I have concluded that rather than stop flying or just do enough to keep legal (not necessarily current) I have decided to put £10k aside for flying. The thinking behind it is that it then becomes spent funds which I can become more comfortable about spending.

The question is what to spend this already 'spent' money on?

Now rather than list the alternatives I have in mind only for certain members to slate I leave the question open, other than to say there is no determined period it should be spent over.

To Date:
100hrs TT (SEP(L))
VFR only (no night)

BB

Vizsla
5th Mar 2011, 17:02
One week in a brothel of your choice

FlyingForFun
5th Mar 2011, 17:03
Just my opinion... but that money could buy you a nice share in an aircraft. But the key thing is to make sure it's a friendly group.

Like a lot of hobbies, flying is most fun when it's done with other people. The main advantage of buying into a friendly group would be that you'd have friends to share a common interest with.... which would encourage you to stick in GA for longer.

From what you've said, I feel that this would be more successful than spending the money on training/ratings/experience.... because once you've completed the training, got the ratings, and experienced whatever you want to experience, you'll be left in exactly the same situation all over again, but £10k down.

FFF
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BabyBear
5th Mar 2011, 17:44
FFF, thank you for a reasoned response. I have considered the share option and for reasons best not expressed on an open forum, other than to say there is nothing suitable, I have concluded that your suggestion is not currently a vialble option. Indeed it is as a consequnce of it not being an option that I am posing the question.

Vizsla, where the fcuk do you frequent brothels that £10k would only buy a week (assuming of course you are not paying for the time 'off')?

Rod1
5th Mar 2011, 17:47
By a share in a Jodel (or similar). Should cost about £3.5k for a 1/5 share, then about £35 per month and £45 per hour. You then get two years at 45 hours per year. At the end of that you either find more cash (£3500 a year) or you sell and spend the rest on hire.

Rod1

BabyBear
5th Mar 2011, 17:53
Rod1, WTF, please don't complicate it! I guess there is the option to approach those in the LAA and ask if they would consider offering a share in their beloved aircraft. Mmmm there is a certain RV4 that springs to mind, though I think it may be a long shot.

Not something that had even entered my mind, but thanks for confusing the issue.

BB

stickandrudderman
5th Mar 2011, 17:54
Assuming your 10K isn't for purchasing a capital asset and is just for actual flying costs/spending money I think I'd get trained up on a Cirrus (or other competent machine) and then simply set aside a few weekends per year to take the Mrs/girlfriend/boyfriend/mistress somewhere in Europe for a long weekend in a nice hotel somewhere.
Flying is expensive, so if you're not going to do much of it why not make sure that every flight is a memorable one?
Sure your currency isn't going to be the best but within your budget you could have an hour with an instructor once per month to stay on top of things.
If you won a competition and the prize was a weekend for two in a nice hotel in some romantic European city, transport by private aeroplane included, you'd be delighted wouldn't you?
So just set the competition yourself and make sure you win!!!:D
Life is too short to wait for someone else to give you the prizes.

J.A.F.O.
5th Mar 2011, 19:55
BB - Before I add my two pennorth could I just clear a couple of things up.

Are you in the UK?

Is a share a good idea for you? It wasn't when FFF suggested it but seemed to be when Rod mentioned it.

I just wanted to clear those up to make sure my response made some sense.

Doodlebug
5th Mar 2011, 19:59
You could look into hire-and-fly in Southern Africa in the european winter, or in the USA during summer. Either will permit you to get more hours for the same money in a vastly more GA-friendly environment. Not to mention the buzz of flying over endless open wide spaces.

BabyBear
5th Mar 2011, 20:31
J.A.F.O. I am indeed in the UK and the apparent change of heart is due to never having considered the possibility of LAA members being prepared to share their treasured possession. I do not believe there is a suitable C of A machine available that I would consider a share in, however Rod1 has me considering the possibility of asking LAA members and now has me thinking of those owners with CoA machines that are not currently part of a syndicate. In my view the down side of a share (which is an option) is that it would use a significant portion of the available capital only to remain on the burger run and do little for my desire to improve my skills. A share is an option, but would it be the best value for money?

Doodlebug, I absolutely agree that flying in the US is a different experience in all respects, however if it was down to an annual vacation then I would probably not bother. My view is that I need to be flying here in the UK and any such trip should be the icing on the cake.

BB

A_Pommie
5th Mar 2011, 21:03
BB, Join the LAA in the back of the magazine is asection in the classifieds titalled shares for sale.
Also get down to your local airfields or better yet strips. There will be a notice board with shares for offer.
Join your local strut, go to the meetings you'll soon find plenty of people who are looking for shareholders.
Most private pilots will struggle to get good utilisation of there aircraft so shares makes sense as the finacial burden is spread and the use goes up.
A slightly risky stratgy is to buy an aircraft yourself and then sell shares in it to recoup most of your costs.
Oh and I doubt you'll get much of a share in an RV4 for £10K. Think Jodel, condor, RANS S6 or similar.

Slopey
5th Mar 2011, 21:17
You could always do the IMCR as a next step which would improve your flying skills and give you some useful instrument contingency rather than just VFR flying?

The Fenland Flyer
5th Mar 2011, 21:31
I agree with A_Pommie. Join your LAA local strut, it's there that you will find out more about affordable flying in your area. With LAA types and also fixed wing microlight (which I fly) 5k will get you a share and the other 5k could get you around 150 hours of flying :)

Golf-Sierra
5th Mar 2011, 21:37
BB,

but what appeals to you most in flying so far? Is it improving your skills, learning new things? In that case maybe the money would be well spent on an additional rating (e.g. IR). Or perhaps aerobatics? Maybe trying to gain experience on various types, e.g. Cessna, Cirrus, taildragger, something vintage? PPL(H)? Or something quite exotic, e.g. a floatplane rating or mountain course?

Is it the views, being able to experience the world from a different viewpoint? The adventure? In that case maybe a european tour, perhaps even two? A flight to north Africa? Scandinavia? Russia perhaps?

Is it the social side? In that case the share option might be for you, but then again 10k is not going to buy you much of an aircraft, and a lot also depends on how much you can spend per annum afterwards.


Golf-Sierra

BabyBear
5th Mar 2011, 22:04
It seems in the attempt not to embellish the situation too much and have the usual suspects tear it to shreds I may have underdone it?

My initial thoughts were the £10k would be for flying (rather than buying a share, although this could be an option) and the options of FI, IMCr, float etc were more in my thoughts, however in themselves they have disadvantages in as much as it is back to local flying (depending on the option) with an instructor in the right hand seat.

Ultimately the objective is to use the money for something a bit more constructive and beneficial than the burger run, or burning holes in the sky in the local area.

I guess if it was an easy decision then there would not be a need to ask for others opinions?

Thanks for your thoughts so far.

BB

thing
5th Mar 2011, 22:34
10K would get you a very reasonable glider, with your previous experience I doubt it would cost you more than 500 quid to get your glider ticket, then virtually free flying for good.

Rod1
5th Mar 2011, 22:39
The Jodel is a TW machine so it will improve your flying. It will also allow you to explore the huge number of strips, which have sprung up. It is also capable of serious European touring 2 up with camping gear if that is what floats your boat. The main benefits are availability, you do not have to worry about the cost and you can fly a decent amount to improve. The numbers I quoted are based on a group which operates near my home base.

Rod1

WorkingHard
6th Mar 2011, 06:26
Rod1 - I am intrugued by this "The Jodel is a TW machine so it will improve your flying. It will also allow you to explore the huge number of strips, which have sprung up" Are the 2 synonymous or am I missing something. Thanks

Poeli
6th Mar 2011, 06:44
Did you think about gliding? Always a challenge, then again the good weather to glide is mostly in the summer.

GyroSteve
6th Mar 2011, 06:49
I'd suggest learning to fly a gyro, but then I would, wouldn't I! :cool:

You would still have plenty of cash left over to do a few hours in helicopters, float planes, Microlights, gliders, paramotors etc etc - you could have a ball! There's more to flying than just aeroplanes!

Genghis the Engineer
6th Mar 2011, 07:48
I'm going to add to the people who think you should look seriously at joining a syndicate. The best value, and most fun flying, in syndicates may well also be served by (a) being an LAA member, and (b) having completed tailwheel differences training. You might also think hard about microlight differences training so that you can also look at those options.

G

J.A.F.O.
6th Mar 2011, 09:37
I was going to suggest joining an LAA syndicate or group, you'll also probably get to fly something a little different and I honestly believe that being part of a group and a member of a strut will add a new dimension to your flying.

If you want to give purpose to your flying then how about joining Skywatch or a similar organisation.

If you are the type who likes to set themselves a goal and work at it then how about taking up aerobatics and working towards winning a competition.

24Carrot
6th Mar 2011, 09:38
Just a thought, possibly whacky!

You question whether you want to keep on flying at all, so I would caution against anything that 'locks you in', such as buying something, joining a group, or starting to learn a new aircraft type. It seems to me your best bet is to build on the skills you have already, and rent to retain flexibility.

A lump sum won't last forever, so you must decide when to spend it. Sensibly you say you don't want to spread it out, only barely staying current. But I'm guessing you don't want blow it quickly either.

So how about this? Plan to fly 2-3 months a year, when the weather is (theroretically) good, but fly lots of hours then. Flying while current is much more relaxing.

Accept you will need a few hours with an instructor to get back current, then some solo hours on the basics, but then rent a decent aircraft to do something adventurous. You will have to define "adventurous", but e.g. touring UK/France/Europe/...? The non-flying time gives you time to research and plan.

Ordinarily renting doesn't offer much flexibility, but once you become current again, with a decent sum to spend over a short period, the economics should change.

If the first year's adventure turns out badly, then you still have the flexibility to quit or try something else the next year. If it goes well, no amount of money will ever be enough:ok:

One more thought, if you can find a fellow minded PPL, then you could double your spending power, fly safer and have company too.

2c from 24C.

peter272
6th Mar 2011, 09:55
Rod1 - I am intrugued by this "The Jodel is a TW machine so it will improve your flying. It will also allow you to explore the huge number of strips, which have sprung up" Are the 2 synonymous or am I missing something. Thanks

Tailwheel aircraft (generally) require a higher level of airwareness and skill than do aircraft with a training wheel at the front and your landings will certainly improve. You'll also learn about what your feet are for.

They give a better performance in and out of short fields than the equivalent nosewheel types.

A DR1050, say will lift at around 45kts, whereas a DR400 doesn't think about flying until 60kts is reached. On some airfields (Lundy, for example) there isn't enough room to get to 60kts comfortably, esp in some of the lower-powered aircraft.

But you should certainly look at experiencing tailwheel flying and make your own mind up.

Maoraigh1
6th Mar 2011, 20:09
Join a group where most members do very little flying. Our group (6 members) Jodel has flown less than 30 hours in 2011. I've flown more than 20 hours in her. Providing each hour makes a profit, the group will be happy. £10,000 would buy a share, a year's monthly costs, and 10 hours per month in the air. (Not B.off to B.on) . No shares for sale though, and too long a drive to the hangar for you.

BabyBear
6th Mar 2011, 21:07
Thanks to all.

I am finding that the flying I have been doing is sporadic and often without any great purpose other an attempt to keep some level of currency and therefore often involves an hour in the local training area, as I have planned for tomorrow. It is not so much a case of I have £10k to spend, it is more a case of once the decision to commit the funds has been taken it opens up many options other than burning holes in the sky making myself dizzy just outside the ATZ.

I am surprised how few responses re further formal training; IMCr, CPL, FI there are with the majority leaning towards joining a syndicate.

It seems I will have to investigate this option further.

Maoraigh1, you were just getting me all excited about your syndicate and aircraft availability and then you have to spoil it by telling me there are no shares available. Dear oh dear. Are you aware of any other syndicates with such low utilisation and availability?

To those who suggested gliding as an option, I should have said that the decision to join a gliding club had already been taken, in fact I had my first 2 flights with them just today. The £10k is a sum I am prepared to spend and believe is necessary to commit to powered flying to improve skills. I guess the tail wheel experience could come in handy for being a tug pilot?

Piper.Classique
7th Mar 2011, 06:08
I guess the tail wheel experience could come in handy for being a tug pilot?

Not really. Depends on where you want to tug, obviously, but a lot of clubs are using nosewheel type tugs (Rallyes, Robins etc) I actually got my first tailwheel experience on a tug after a season flying the nosedraggers, kind of a reward for being a good girl and turning up to tug on days when I would have much preferred being in the glider. Ok, I now have a lot more tailwheel time than nosewheel but that's because I bought a cub!

But beware if you get hooked on gliding, you will end up wanting to spend a lot of time in the glider, and while ten grand will indeed buy something reasonable, the launches and parking are not free.

Squawk_code
7th Mar 2011, 09:18
Hi all,

I'm going to go against the majority and suggest improving you skills/knowledge via something like the IMC. Whilst I understand those advocating the syndicate approach, if you are looking at flying further afield than just outside the ATZ, then the benifits of a course like the IMC would be huge. I understand your notion about an instructor being back in the RHS, but the right instructor is a pleasure to fly with! I'd also consider the AOPA aeros course as it improves general handling and boosts the confidence! To sum up, if I were in your position, as a relatively low houred PPL, I would look at furthering my skills and knowledge, and try to have fun at the same time!

Whichever you decide, enjoy!

Ph1l
7th Mar 2011, 10:29
If you have £10k to spend then surely the best way to spend that would be to invest a portion in a share that you can then get back if you decide to move on to something else or your circumstances change? Your £10k would give you many hours and you would have something to show for it - its what I did.

I have a 1/6th share in a Europa kept at a nice friendly field, my £10k has bought me the aircraft, a years fixed costs and 110 hours flying time and next year I will only need to spend about £4k (allowing for fuel increases) for the same 110 hours.

In our syndicate there are only 2 other flying members, both of which have another aircraft at the same strip - many syndicates seem to have their share of non-flying members.