Kit Plane

[tobster911]

Hi there, I'm looking at possibly purchasing a kit plane at some point, just for cruising, not aerobatics, and was wondering if anyone knew of any complete kits, and how much i'd be looking at paying for one. Thanks

[J.A.F.O.]

This is the place to look:

Welcome to the Light Aircraft Association (http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/)

As for price, you pays your money, you takes your choice.

[Steve N]

I see you are doing a PPL so suggest you find your local LAA Strut (Club) and go along. There will be people to answer all your questions and few you won't have thought of.

Light Aircraft Association Find your local branch (http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/struts/strutListing.html)

Steve

[aviate1138]

SkyArrow from Italy

Sky Arrow (http://www.skyarrow.co.uk/)

I owned G-BXGT for some years. Not the fastest but great view and nice handling. :)

[letpmar]

We operate a sportcruiser near newbury and you would be welcome to take a look if you are local. Im not saying the Sportcruiser is the best out there but it or another LAA type is well worth a look.

pete

[Rod1]

If you are not in too much of a hurry try to get to this;

LAA SYWELL RALLY 2011
2nd - 4th September
Sywell Aerodrome
Northants.

I have built an aircraft from a kit and have been operating it for some years so if I can help send me a PM. 1st thing to do is decide on a spec and a price range. Something like; (example only)

Min 120kn cruse
2 adults 4 hours of fuel + 40lb bags
Mogas at less than 20lph
Good STOL
Modern glass EFIS
Budget £55k

Or

Min 90kn cruse
2 adults 4 hours fuel + 40lb
Mogas at less than 22lph
Good STOL
Traditional basic VFR instruments/avionics
Budget £15k

Then we can give you a short list of likely candidates.:ok:

Rod1

[magpienja]

Pity that the LAA wont let non members access/post on there forum....I wonder why???

Nick.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Pity that the LAA wont let non members access/post on there forum....I wonder why???

Nick.

Err, because

(a) they are a members club, and
(b) they think that all light aircraft pilots in the UK should be LAA members?

Both of which seem perfectly reasonable views to me (although a bit more LAA/BMAA/BGA cross-permission would be no bad thing.)

G

LAA and BMAA member.

[magpienja]

The BMAA forum is very refreshing in comparison....maybe more enlightened.....indeed they are more than happy to allow non member's access to ask questions to there harts content.

Nick.

[Ultra long hauler]

Hi there, I'm looking at possibly purchasing a kit plane at some point, just for cruising, not aerobatics, and was wondering if anyone knew of any complete kits, and how much i'd be looking at paying for one. Thanks

Rod 1 pointed out that it´s all about exactly what YOU want from a certain aircraft, and what you will be able (or willing!!) to $pend on it!
What are you gonna use it for?

I can only advise on the 3 type of LSA I have been remotely in touch with:

Genesis: Genesis (http://www.auf.asn.au/buyguide/genesis.html)
Pretty cool aircraft, I thoroughly enjoy it………for a limited budget, and comfortable (albeit slow) cruising, at limited altitude and (limited) STOL capacities!

Magic: MAGIC GS 700 LSA VERSION- Ibis Aircraft (http://ibis-aircraft.com/site/magic-gs-700-lsa-version/)
Some friends of mine fly these, amazing aircraft!! Apparently a dream to fly!

Patriot: Patriot (http://www.can-zacaviation.com/patriot.htm)
https://picasaweb.google.com/marton.alexandre/PATRIOTPUNEK#
I hope to fly one of these at some stage! The first reviews are good, anyways……..

Please keep us updated, tobster911!

###Ultra Long Hauler###

[nick14]

Vans RV6

Nicest aeroplane I ever flew!!

Cruise at 140 knts, lovely handling, good vis.

[patowalker]

Ultra Long Hauler,

We don't live in such an enlightened country as you do, so our choice of kit and ready-to-fly LSA (VLA) types is very limited. While you have a declaratory system, where approval is granted on the basis of the manufacturer's declaration that the aircraft is airworthy, our authorities require evidence that it meets an airworthiness code, such as BCAR Section S or CS-VLA. This can involve witnessing an airframe tested to destruction, which adds considerable cost and delay to the approval process, which is a great obstacle to importing aircraft.

[Jan Olieslagers]

Tobster, as a Brit, looking for a kit-built PPL/LSA cruiser, you should value the Europa. Not cheap to acquire, but it can be operated to good economy. It is a mature stable design and makes an excellent tourer. Though I must admit my experience of it is limited, as it exceeds both my current budget and my current license.

[Ultra long hauler]

Ultra Long Hauler,

We don't live in such an enlightened country as you do, so our choice of kit and ready-to-fly LSA (VLA) types is very limited. While you have a declaratory system, where approval is granted on the basis of the manufacturer's declaration that the aircraft is airworthy, our authorities require evidence that it meets an airworthiness code, such as BCAR Section S or CS-VLA. This can involve witnessing an airframe tested to destruction, which adds considerable cost and delay to the approval process, which is a great obstacle to importing aircraft.

Point taken with regards to the Genesis.
However, I happen to know that there are MXP 150 Patriots in Italy, and I´m almost positive the same goes for the Ibis Magic´s……

Would it be that expensive to get one of those certified where you are?

###Ultra Long Hauler###

[patowalker]

They do not need to be certified, as in Certificate of Airworthiness, but approved for issuance of a Permit to Fly.

Genghis may tell us how much the process can cost.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Well, the actual fees to various bodies will be well under £1000.

The actual cost - well, if it were fairly well sorted already, then I could probably do everything in about 2-3 months. That's full time, which you won't get out of anybody, plus there will be inevitable delays for a variety of reasons. I am chartered aeronautical engineer who is also a Test Pilot; there are a few of us in the UK, but all are pretty busy. An extra cost is that you may need a fair number of spare bits of aeroplane to break in ground testing.

Say a few tens of thousands, spread over 6-9 months if everything goes well (and you get the right person/people on the job). 2-3 times that if it doesn't go perfectly.


Incidentally, I'm not going to recommend any individual aeroplane, but would strongly recommend buying the current "World Directory of Leisure Aviation", which is about £6, covers most of what's out there, with prices and performance. Also look on the BMAA and LAA websites for details of what is approved.


G

[jxc]

If one was hoping to buy a used kit plane in America and import it into the UK what would be involved ? stripping complete airframe or just sections so Laa inspector can see ?

[patowalker]

http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TechnicalLeaflets/Building,%20Buying%20or%20Importing/TL%201.06%20Imported%20Aircraft.pdf

[Mariner9]

Import of a kit aircraft from the USA is strongly cautioned against by the LAA, who, depending on the aircraft type (which would have to be one of their approved designs with no unapproved mods in any event) may require substantial dissasembly in order to inspect parts than can only be inspected during the build process.

If you have a particular type in mind, an easier option would be to find a UK-built example. Suggest you have a look at the classified ads on the LAA site.

[jxc]

Ok What if it has been a factory built aircraft and registered under experimental in america is that the same to import into uk ?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Yes, exactly the same.

Unless it has a CofA, a UK PtF or an EASA PtF, to the UK CAA it's just a pile of parts, not an aeroplane.

G

[patowalker]

AFAIK, in the case of LSA, "experimental" refers to amateur built, from a kit or plans.

Pre-LSA factory built "fat ultralights" were granted an experimental certificate, because they did not have a U.S. or foreign airworthiness certificate. Not much chance of getting one of them approved here.