Redundancy Delayed

[downsizer]

So it seems that the eligibilty criteria and fields has been delayed TFN...:mad:

What a shock.

[camelspyyder]

what is the source for this latest cluster...?:ugh:

everyone at work is still expecting news tomorrow.

CS

[downsizer]

Marham intranet.

[Exiled]

Deconflicted so as not to spoil the lustre of the Libyan op. Nice one Dave.

[getsometimein]

*IF* this is true, it just pushes me (thankfully) further away from any chance i've got of being in the bracket!

[Grabbers]

Who let the goat out?

[camelspyyder]

Great. As if 12 or 18 months (from 01 Mar 11) wasn't short enough notice to leave now we'll have even less.

And you can't register for your entitled (2 year) resettlement until you have a confirmed exit date...

[Whenurhappy]

Awaiting Ministerial Approval, I understand...

Craven (of Min AF) is what I think.

[Grabbers]

If true, you would think that Ministerial approval would have been sought sooner than 11 minutes to 5 on the day before thousands are expecting the news. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Jumping_Jack]

Maybe the bad news day evaporated with the RAF, SF & Royal Navy doing a sterling job in the Med. Cynical bastards:mad:.....

[NutLoose]

Suprised they have'nt put those up for redundancy on edisposal........... nothing suprises me these days :mad::mad:

Good luck and best wishes to those that get selected :sad:

[gijoe]

Green guidance news will be out in April before firm details and invitations to volunteer and 'Brown Letters' in the first weeks of May.

The best answer would be for MB to get it sorted so that all 3 Services announced on the same date to show sort element of organisation and forethought...

g:ok:

[minigundiplomat]

Is this delay just for the RAF?


It would make sense to push all redundancies under the Ministers nose at once [but how much of what is happening right now makes sense], so I am unsure on a decision basis.

However, the cackhanded execution and handling of the matter is entirely an RAF project.

[Norfolk in Chance]

I wonder what the real reasoning behind all this is, i mean they have known for months the date, must be something pretty big to make them pull it at the 11th hour...? maybe announcing that the UK are going to be part of an enforced no-fly zone the day before announcing cutting lots of military jobs would be bad PR...or maybe the govt just dont really have a clue..

[ghostnav]

If this is true, I can see many people really hacked off if they were keen to take the money and go. Perhaps PVR rates will go up now.

[Norfolk in Chance]

maybe that was their plan....?

[downsizer]

Is this delay just for the RAF?

Yes. RAF redundancy fields were to be released 1 March.

[top_cover]

Morale has been low for a while due to all the uncertainty, this is taking it one level lower, especially with the TFN. There are lots of people wanting to know their future, they need to know and their families need to know, so get on with it and stick to your timelines. No wonder procurement is always late, they cant even get this in on time, its a shambles, and its from the top down :ugh:

[Norfolk in Chance]

well the delay to telling the block 4 students their fate has just been cancelled, so they are finding out their fate tomorrow, seems that the powers that be got their sh*t in one sock, so maybe the redundancies will come out too now....? maybe?

[CaptDarling]

It's still on track for 1 Mar: The RAF Redundancy Programme Announcement is embargoed until the Written Ministerial Statement is presented at 1430hrs.

[gijoe]

That is good for those in light blue to know - but I still think a tri-service approach would have been better.

RN elements have known for some time know if they are in the target areas via a Galaxy that was released some weeks back.

G:ok:

[Biggus]

So who is correct then? The OP who says that the Marham intranet is saying the announcement is to be delayed, or Capt Darling, who said 2 posts ago that it is still on track to be announced tomorrow? :hmm:

I guess all will become clear in the next 20 odd hours....

[The Nip]

It was meant to be a Tri Sevice announcement. As it happens, all the RAF figures have been sorted but the Army ones have not. As MGD stated all the bad news was to be released at the same time.

[gijoe]

The issue for the Army would appear that Director Manning(Army) wants to work on 'reckonable service' to make the figures for those eligible for an IP easier to work with...

The Army Personnel Centre works on years in rank and year of birth - combine that with JPA only showing one's latest contract (eg an issue if a soldier before commissioning or transferee) and there is a problem. All will not be as displayed on JPA. This is all thirdhandrumourmill truth by the way.

Cluster...but a tri-service announcement would still be better.

G:ok:

[Speedbird48]

Nothing changes. I was one of the ones that applied for redundancy in 1964!! Yes, I am that old!! And maybe you wern't even running up and down dads spine with a clearance chit!!

I was posted quite sometime after I applied, and then after just 3 months at the new place I was called into the bosses office and told that I was now a civilian!! The only problem was that the redundancy was April 1st. and he called for me on April 3rd!!

Don't expect any better, they have never changed.

Speedbird48.

[NutLoose]

One does wonders if one reason is because some of the crew of HMS Cumberland are to be effected due to her soon retirement and that the fact would not have made good press at this time......


Either way.... still disgusted :mad:

[NUFC1892]

Whatever was on the Marham Intranet seems to have been removed:confused:

[downsizer]

Indeed it has. It's not like the RAF to mess people around :bored:

[SaddamsLoveChild]

It would appear that Dave is as Spin Driven as his labour chums. I cannot believe that neither he nor the SecDef have the balls to announce the redundancy fields etc when so many peoples lives hang in the balance. Just goes to show they are all the same bunch and why hasnt someone leaked it from within MOD, its not like its things arent leaked every day.

Glad I am going of my own volition come on Def Chiefs get on with it and show some balls.:\:ugh:

[dc1968]

Well according to the BBC today is the day...?

[camelspyyder]

a station intranet in lincs posted this morning:

The announcement of the RAF Redundancy Programme eligibility criteria and fields, that was due to be promulgated on 1 Mar 11, has been postponed. Further details to follow as soon as available

Parliament today:

Main Chamber:

1430 - Deputy Prime Ministers Questions

Westminster Hall:

11:00am - 12:30pmSir Alan Beith Future provision of helicopters and crew for the Search and Rescue Service
12:30pm - 1:00pmAngus Robertson UK military basing review


No mention of Military redundancies at all - waiting for a bad news day perhaps?


CS

[meub]

I can't answer for activity in Parliament, but the person on the desk next to me has the details and is preparing to brief on it this afternoon so if someone's going to tell them to delay they'd better be quick about it.

[RumPunch]

Can you ask that person next to you if any of those selecetd are TG1 please ;)

[RumPunch]

On that note I just seen on BBC news that announcement for 5000 redundencies will be made today.

[GalleyTeapot]

Its to be announced Station wide here at 1400hrs today

[The Old Fat One]

Good luck and sincere best wishes that as many as possible get whatever they are hoping for...and remember

Non Illegitimi Carborundum

Or words to that effect

[Techmick]

Certain boys & girls at a certain secret Welsh flying island were given the good/bad news this am, only 20 out of 37 will carry on with their training. :uhoh:

[Jumping_Jack]

Well, CDS claims that the RAF have released the DIN today (on the Defence Intranet)....I can't find it and it isn't on the Manning website.....anyone got a link?

[Mr C Hinecap]

I have my copy of it - sent via the Dispairer system to us in the outposts of the realm.

I'm not in the redundancy field for my Branch. :{

[Jumping_Jack]

Hurumph.....I'm supposed to be classed as Dispairer but haven't seen anything! Why isn't it on the Manning Website!!!! :ugh:

[geezerBJ]

It is on the manning website !

[Wpn Systems Orator]

It's also on the Airspace Website - 2011DIN01-060 - but you will need an account. I am firmly in the field - not surprisingly!

[Could be the last?]

As I have to wait 4 weeks to get a computer logon.........you have to wait for DII!- Can someone cut and paste the aircrew details for the redundancy on here? Please

[cazatou]

BBC News reporting 2700 RAF, 5000 Army and 3300 Navy redundancies.

[3rdgenalm]

I have 2 years left of my 12. What are the chances of me getting re-engaged to 22 years when the board sits in June? Although my trade isn't applicable to tranche 1, i'm thinking no chance. No pension, no redundancy, no gratuity. Resettlement and McDonalds are all that await I fear.

[FFP]

I have 2 years left of my 12. What are the chances of me getting re-engaged to 22 years when the board sits in June? Although my trade isn't applicable to tranche 1, i'm thinking no chance. No pension, no redundancy, no gratuity. Resettlement and McDonalds are all that await I fear.

You are, unfortunately, in the worst position of everyone. Lots of guys at work in this spot. Here's hoping it does all work out for you though.

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Like some others, I'm 'Out n About' without access to usual help. Someone please post the broad details. Particularly as relating to Aircrew. Ta

Advo

[2Planks]

Its all on Airspace, if you are a pilot and not a Gp Capt (or in the FT pipeline) forget it!

[Mr C Hinecap]

It is marked Restricted Management so I'd rather not give details here.

However, as it doesn't mention Pilots at all below Gp Capt (other than the training pipeline) I guess that can be said here? :uhoh:

[bigley]

Mate,

There are no redundnacy slots for our branch and rank. Howvere, there are 3 for one up.....! How's the sun?

[RumPunch]

Grim reading , little aircrew (NCA) in Tranche 1 , TG1 quite a few , a lot of officer posts without saying much.

[lonsdale2]

RP

"Grim reading , little aircrew (NCA) in Tranche 1 , TG1 quite a few , a lot of officer posts without saying much."

I would say that 'upto 110 NCA' amounts to quite a few.

[sunshine010]

does anyone knows what NOPACK is?

thanks

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Bigley,

Hot, and getting (potentially) Hotter! Going to Leuchars?

Advo

[Scuttled]

Sorry to be selfish, I'm overseas. Anybody got a break down for the officer redundancy numbers? If it's all a bit complicated or still Management in Confidence never mind.

[Grabbers]

Is there anything that can be released that breaks down Branches/Trades? Does the caveat have an expiry?

Rgds

[North Front]

What is the difference between a wg cdr navigator... post command, post staff college, bright, hard working, dedicated.... and a wg cdr pilot... post command, bored, time serving?

Yup, we're going to make the former redundant. So much for 'best man for the job'... 'no longer a two-winged master race'... humpf.

[advocatusDIABOLI]

North,

At the risk of the obvious levity..... 'Navigator'! (Sorry, couldn't help myself.)

Advo

PS- I haven't seen the detail yet.

[mra4eng]

Hope your redundancy payments are no more than you guys deserve.

I'm sure the majority of taxpayers wouldn't want to see their hard-earned money wasted on over inflated (and in some cases undeserving, I'm sure) redundancy payments.

[Exiled]

Is it just me or has someone forgotten to take the pre-announcement header and footer off the documents? How can something that is Restricted Management be issued to the whole Service?

[advocatusDIABOLI]

mra4eng,

Is that just other peoples taxes or ours as well? Would you not rather see a proper settlement for someone who has served their country for, perhaps, 25 yrs (through thick and thin) go to them, rather than any other random 'important' spend?

From your callsign, I guess you're sore, and I understand that. But don't begrudge others, who have been dealt an equally sh1tty deal.

We are NOT the same as 'Joe Public'. Why? Because we sign up for a long time, are: Selected more carefully, Trained more forcefully, give ourselves more willingly and Die more Readily. That describes ALL of us, and we all pay our taxes, at home or at war, while we are doing it.

Advo

[Just This Once...]

What is the difference between a wg cdr navigator... post command, post staff college, bright, hard working, dedicated.... and a wg cdr pilot... post command, bored, time serving?

Fair point and quite a reversal from the 'all of one branch' at wg cdr and above that was quietly ditched in recent months. Not sure how we have moved from the 'brevet agnostic' approach for the senior ranks to this more divisive approach.

Despite the nav/wso cadre making an impact at 3 and 4-star and it seems that they are no longer required. I wonder how many wso we have in GR4, Reaper, Sentinel, Shadow, E3D, Rivet Joint etc compared to the remaining FJ seats...

[The Old Fat One]

Hope your redundancy payments are no more than you guys deserve.

I'm sure the majority of taxpayers wouldn't want to see their hard-earned money wasted on over inflated (and in some cases undeserving, I'm sure) redundancy payments.


I see I'm beaten to a reply...but I'm going for it anyway

If that is somehow meant to be funny it don't work at all.

If it has lost its meaning in bad grammar, be more careful.

If it is as it appears, a snipe at people who have lost their jobs, you win the prize for the most ******* ignorant post on pprune for a long time. And that takes some doing.

PS

I hope those made redundant take the public purse for every shekel, ha'penny and dime they possibly can.

[Just This Once...]

How can something that is Restricted Management be issued to the whole Service?

No RM caveat on my copy, simply says 'UNCLASSIFIED' but in the preamble it also says 'Not to be communicated to anyone outside HM Service without authority'.

[Lima Juliet]

Mr Hinecap

It is not RESTRICTED, only the Annexes. The front page of the DIN states:

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED

So for advocatusDIABOLI's benefit and others here is a breakdown on the aircrew (sorry about the formatting but I have converted the PDF to Word):

Air Cdre Flying Branch will sit within a field of up to 11x 1-stars of all branches

Gp Capt Flying Branch will sit within a field of up to 21x OF-5s of all branches

WSOp (Air Eng) MACr Up to 10
FS Up to 15
Sgt Up to 5
(EW/Ac) MACr Up to 30
FS Up to 50

WSO Nav Wg Cdr Up to 12
AEO Up to 4
ALM Up to 2

FJ Sqn Ldr Up to 16
Flt Lt Up to 25
ATAR/ISTAR Up to 22

ATAR Flt Lt Up to 16

ISTAR Flt Lt Up to 22

RW Sqn Ldr Up to 6
Flt Lt Up to 5

The document is 21 pages long.

It looks like no redundancy for me then :(

Finally, if I've got the cut and paste slightly wrong then please do not shoot the messenger!

LJ

[Just This Once...]

LJ - very helpful for those without access to the DIN.

If you really are seeking an alternate career the 'Not to be communicated to anyone outside of HM Service without authority' at the top of the DIN may help your forced exit plans...

Perhaps you need to edit your post before one of the soon-to-be-redundant RAFP gets on your case.

[advocatusDIABOLI]

L- J

YOU de Man!! very cool, Thanks.

You See Folks, you only need to ask nicely!!

Advo

[Lima Juliet]

Advo

I hadn't noticed the "Not to be communicated to anyone outside HM Service without authority" - which is a bit odd, as surely this would mean RESTRICTED?

I'm a bit :confused::confused: .com

Anyway, to cover my arse, I have redacted my original post by taking out some of the detail (although the original is probably sitting on server somewhere now).

YOU de Man!!

Just call me "Mouse" from now on!

LJ :ok:

PS - Just this once - thanks for pointing this out.

[Pheasant]

UNCLASSIFIED is still a service classification and does not make a document releasable without authority.

[Corporal Clott]

Yes, but you can leave UNCLASSIFIED on a train, plane or automobile in hard copy without any come back!

Sounds like a dumb statement "Not to be communicated to anyone outside HM Service without authority" for something that has no headers or footers and could be left on a noticeboard anywhere! So if you're really that bothered about information being protected do not make it UNCLASS!!!

BTW - I'm an ex Cpl Copper!

[Mr C Hinecap]

Mr Hinecap

It is not RESTRICTED, only the Annexes. The front page of the DIN states:

Not the copy I was sent. I can read you patronising twunt. :rolleyes: If you PM me your DII email address I will send you a copy toot sweet.

[iRaven]

Chiney

The Pdf on Airspace is marked up 'unclassified' and the annexes 'restricted management'. I reckon you have an earlier version.

By the way, the Airspace website is open to 'serving Royal Air Force personnel, Senior Retired Officers, Reservists and their families' - therefore, this information has already been leaked outside that of 'HM Service' (whatever that means? Does it mean I can tell a member of the local constabulary or Prison Guard!!!?).

iRaven

PS - never heard of a twunt before so I googled it and found this TWUNT (http://www.twunt.com/)

[The B Word]

Have a look at these DINs - http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/D9C0F095-1DD4-41B3-9BA1-F14EFEF8F885/0/redundancydin.pdf

and

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/F629B1EC-D971-486A-828B-9A5A76117E2D/0/955_10034DIN.pdf

and

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafsailing/rafcms/mediafiles/6D2FA0C1_1143_EC82_2E3F239B2B764E5A.pdf

They also have the header "Not to be communicated to anyone outside HM Service without authority" and they're on the open MoD and RAF internet sites.

I think this is a "storm in a teacup".

The B Word

[The B Word]

PS - a load more info here from the DIN and Airspace: Policy News - RAF Families Federation (http://www.raf-families-federation.org.uk/policies-news.asp?id=829)

Here it is in entirety:


01 March 2011 : Redundancy - Tranche 1

This afternoon full details of Tranche 1 of the RAF Redundancy Programme were announced.
Personnel selected for redundancy in Tranche 1 will be informed on 1 Sep 11, with applicants exiting the Service by 1 Mar 12 and non-applicants by 1 Sep 12.
It is anticipated Tranche 2 of the programme will commence on 1 Sep 11 and, if necessary, a third tranche will be initiated in 2012.
DIN 2011DIN01-060 details this information and will be promulgated on Defence Intranet.
AMP said:


"The RAF’s manpower modelling has been conducted in considerable detail and I am content that the drawdown of RAF personnel is being delivered through the optimum blend of reduced recruiting intake, the use of all normal manning levers and redundancy.
"I will continue to review the situation as the conclusions of the current Planning Round emerge. I recognise that the Redundancy Programme will, for many, be a source of uncertainty and disruption but be assured that the RAF senior leadership remains committed to ensuring all our personnel are kept fully informed of both the redundancy and wider issues that have to be addressed as we reshape our Service."
The DIN

DIN 2011DIN01-060 tells you where the RAF is looking to make reductions in manpower, and gives the approximate size of those reductions. The selection board will decide who, from these groups, will be made redundant.
The DIN comprises 2 parts. Part A outlines the redundancy fields (eligibility for redundancy) in Tranche 1 of the redundancy programme. Part B provides all RAF personnel with detailed policy information to support the redundancy process.
Background

The SDSR presented the security policy baseline against which the UKs Armed Forces will be re-structured to meet current and emerging threats. In doing so, the Armed Forces will undergo changes that will include a reduction in certain capabilities and the associated manpower:
On 19 Oct 10, the Secretary of State for Defence announced that the RAF will reduce to approximately 33,500 by Mar 15. To achieve this drawdown, manning regulators will be used to increase outflow and restrict intakes, but it must also be ensured that in drawing down the longer sustainability of the Service is not undermined.
To this end, the RAF will conduct a redundancy programme that will reduce manpower whilst preserving some recruiting and promotion activity, albeit at lower levels than normal. Similar programmes are being undertaken by the RN and the Army. The RAF will conduct a compulsory redundancy programme, which will consider both applicants and non-applicants, as part of the Regular Armed Forces Redundancy Programme which will consist of up to 3 tranches starting in financial year 2011/12. It is anticipated that up to 3,000 RAF personnel will be made redundant in total.

RAF Redundancy Programme Q&A

Why are we reducing RAF manpower?

The Strategic Defence and Security Review presented the security policy baseline against which the UK’s Armed Forces will be re-structured to meet current and emerging threats. The Armed Forces will undergo changes that will include a reduction in certain capabilities and associated manpower.
By how much will the RAF reduce in size?

On 19 Oct 10, the Secretary of State for Defence announced that the RAF will reduce to around 33,500 by Mar 15. The RAF must reduce in size by up to 5000 posts.
Is it just the RAF that is being reduced in size or are the other Services being cut too?

The Royal Navy and Army will see significant reductions in their manpower and the civilian element of the MOD will be similarly reduced in size.
Why do we need a redundancy programme?

Normal manning regulators to increase outflow and restrict intakes will be applied, but these on their own will be insufficient, if we are to preserve a balanced force structure. The RAF will conduct a compulsory redundancy programme, which will consider both applicants and non-applicants, as part of the Regular Armed Forces Redundancy Programme. The RAF programme will comprise up to 3 tranches starting in financial year 2011/12.
Will officers be included in the redundancy programme?

The redundancy process applies to all regular RAF trained and untrained personnel, both commissioned and non-commissioned, up to and including air cdre.
Will everyone be eligible for redundancy?

No, redundancy will be targeted at specific ranks, branches and trades in order to achieve a balanced drawdown. Eligible personnel will be invited to apply for redundancy, but to achieve the desired long-term balance and structure of the Service, it may be necessary to reject some applicants and select some non-applicants who fall within the same redundancy fields.
How do I find out if I am eligible for redundancy?

An RAF Redundancy Programme DIN will be published on 1 Mar 11 listing the Tranche 1 redundancy fields (by rank, branch and trade).
If I don’t meet the eligibility criteria (by rank, branch or trade) as published in the RAF Redundancy Programme DIN, can I still apply for redundancy?

No, only those personnel who are identified as eligible (by rank, branch or trade) in the RAF Redundancy Programme DIN can apply for redundancy.
I am eligible for redundancy, what happens next?

You must decide if you want to apply for redundancy.
How do I apply for redundancy?

The application process will be outlined in the RAF Redundancy Programme DIN published on 1 Mar 11. Eligible personnel will have 6 weeks (from 1 Mar 11) to decide whether or not to apply for redundancy.
Where can I find out more about the redundancy process and other information I need to consider before submitting an application for redundancy?

The RAF Redundancy Programme DIN published on 1 Mar 11 describes the redundancy process and highlights other sources of information.
I am eligible for redundancy, but I don’t want to apply for redundancy, what happens next?

You need do nothing. If you fall within the eligibility criteria, but you do not wish to apply for redundancy you will be listed as a non-applicant and considered alongside all other applicants and non-applicants within the eligibility field by the Redundancy Selection Board.
What does the Redundancy Selection Board do?

The Redundancy Selection Board will convene at HQ AIR Command to consider and decide on all applications for redundancy and to decide which non-applicants are to be selected.
What criteria will be used by the Redundancy Selection Boards?

The selection criteria is outlined in the RAF Redundancy Programme DIN.
When will the results of Tranche 1 of the Redundancy Programme be announced?

The results of Tranche 1 of the Redundancy Programme will be announced on 1 Sep 11. All personnel (applicants and non-applicants) selected for redundancy will be notified by individual letter through their chain of command. Applicants who have not been selected for redundancy will receive a letter directly from the RAF Redundancy Focal Point.
Can I appeal against the decision of the Redundancy Selection Board?

Yes, details of the redundancy appeals process are outlined in the RAF Redundancy Programme DIN.

When will personnel selected for redundancy in Tranche 1 leave the Service?

Exit dates and additional information are outlined in the RAF Redundancy Programme DIN, but as a guide, applicants will leave by 29 Feb 12 and non-applicants will leave by 31 Aug 12.
When will details of the Tranche 2 programme be announced?

It is intended to publish eligibility criteria for the Tranche 2 programme on 1 Sep 11.
Will there be a third tranche?

No decision has been taken yet on the requirement for a third tranche.

How many 2* and above officers will be affected?

Changes to structures at AVM rank and above will be managed outwith the Redundancy Programme.
Will the RAF continue to recruit personnel during the Redundancy Programme?

Yes, recruitment will continue to maintain the long-term balance and structure of the Service, but it will be at reduced levels.
Why are we making flying students redundant?

Following the Strategic Defence and Security Review reductions in front line forces there is now a surplus of up to 170 RAF student pilots within the RAF Flying Training Pipeline which will result in some personnel being considered for redundancy.

[minigundiplomat]

Chinecap,

You really do love it don't you?

:ugh:

[Biggus]

I certainly didn't believe the reaction:

'...I'm not in the redundancy field for my Branch. :{...'

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

I certainly didn't believe the reaction:

'...I'm not in the redundancy field for my Branch. :{...'

Having you been living in total isolation over the past years?

I work with folk who are also cheesed off at not being in the bracket as they would walk tomorrow if given the chance. There are plenty of techies in our building who are waiting to see if they qualify as they will be out the main gate as quick as sh1t off a stick if they are.

Nothing personal intended but where ever you are you need to open your eyes and ears a bit more :ok:

[Biggus]

...er, no!!

I think it is you (seldom) who should read a bit more before having a go at people.

The quote I referred to was made by Mr C H at post 40 on this very thread.

What I was saying is that Mr C H's posts are usually so pro-RAF, so positive, so anti anybody complaining that I couldn't believe that he, yes not simply anyone or everyone but purely him, was looking forward to the prospect of redundancy! He appears to be far too much of a "company man"!

Post 77 was also written as a follow on to post 76!

Obviously anything that isn't spelt out in words of one syllable is far too subtle for you - best you go back to reading the Sun!! :ugh::ugh:

[Anne Grenade]

Hope your redundancy payments are no more than you guys deserve.

I'm sure the majority of taxpayers wouldn't want to see their hard-earned money wasted on over inflated (and in some cases undeserving, I'm sure) redundancy payments.

There's nothing quite like sour grapes.

My redundancy payment will be exactly what I deserve.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

So let me see if I have this correctly........because a regular Prune poster shows via his thread contributions that he is fully committed to service values and ethos it goes without saying that he is completely happy with his lot and keen to stay in for the long haul...............:confused:

The guys I refer to could not be more loyal and hardworking individuals and continue to go the extra mile at all times but given the chance they would be out the door in a flash.

They are not alone and I happily stand by my post :ok:

[Biggus]

...fair enough, if that is your opinion.

But come on, admit it, you're man enough to, you didn't appreciate what my post was about did you?? :ok:

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Hate to say but I did get it.

Chine has portrayed himself as a military cabbage on here for as long as I can remember but one of the guys I refer to would give him a close run for his money in that dep't :ok:

[Biggus]

....at least we agree on one thing!! :ok:

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

The two lots of 3 tranche redundancies in the 90's & 00's were oversubscribed with volunteers, two - threefold in the techie brackets.

I should know, I have (perverse) bragging rights to having volunteered 5 times.

I was a 'High calibre individual that the Air Force can ill afford to lose'

I know the terms have changed, but they're still generous compared to civvy street.

Seldom's spot on. We shall see when they publish the application figures

[Lima Juliet]

Chiney et al

The situation is now clearer in my mind - there was a release of the DIN from AMP at 1400Z prior to the 1430Z announcement that was "RESTRICTED MANAGEMENT". That is why yours probably has headers and footers (as does mine in my DII mailbox).

However, the DIN on Airspace (the same detail as that released 30 minutes prior at 1400Z) is now UNCLASSIFIED.

No trip to Traitor's Gate for me just yet then, hurrah! :ok:

LJ

[The_Agent]

mra4eng said:
Hope your redundancy payments are no more than you guys deserve.

I'm sure the majority of taxpayers wouldn't want to see their hard-earned money wasted on over inflated (and in some cases undeserving, I'm sure) redundancy payments.
I'm sorry - I'm still fuming at this remark.

I'm through tranche 1. I may not be so lucky with tranche 2. If selected for redundancy, I will be leaving the service just under 5 years from my Immediate Pension point.

Calculating the difference between what I would receive up to age 55 (if I can keep my job), versus my redundancy payout: I would get almost exactly 25% of what I had banked on for my future, plus a markedly decreased pension from 60/65.

For the sake of 4-and-something years, the RAF saves itself some cash and leaves me right up sh*t creek: trying to start a new career with a pittance compared to my original pension - that I have (to all intent) paid into.

I therefore hope this meets with your approval, you vindictive, petty minded, ignorant little gnome. I pay taxes too - and I'm not the only one in this boat.

[Red Line Entry]

Mr C!

Tell us what is causing you to lose the love! Let's reawaken that passion that you had 'till so recently. You're far too young to become another BEagle (although I suppose you could become his alter ego, like the 'good' version of Spiderman).

[Hugh FW]

Has anyone else noticed the point in the DIN which states that only if you are on (or due to go on) an OOA which attracts the Operational Allowance (OA) will you be entitled to the consideration of not being made redundant in that particular tranche.

Therefore, you could be OOA or notified of an OOA to e.g. Al Udeid, and be notified of compulsory redundancy. So, in your final 12 months you could be stitched for a 4 or 6 monther?

That'll help you resettle to civilian life?

:mad:

[Runaway Gun]

I'm confused Hugh, doesn't it mean that you WON'T be made redundantif you are OOA (or due to be OOA)?

[Laarbruch72]

So, in your final 12 months you could be stitched for a 4 or 6 monther?


While I don't doubt that may have happened in a case or two over the years, it's something that manning have always tried their damndest to avoid. I've not seen it happen in my 20 years so far, put it that way. They're usually at great pains to make sure that your last 12 months is unmolested, detatchment wise.

[Hugh FW]

Runaway Gun

Negative Mate. It reads specifically wrt Operational Allowance (OA) Dets i.e. if you're in/going to Afghan, you won't be made redundant however, if the OOA is not one where you will receive OA e.g. Al Udeid or the Falklands etc, then the "good will" clause doesn't apply.

As the previous poster states, hopefully they wouldn't be so insensitive to deploy someone who is due out on compulsory redundancy however, the way it is worded, they could.

Check the DIN.

Hugh

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Advo,

I did offer to send you the details via PM. You never got back and I couldn't be @rsed to print the whole 21 pages!

Duncs:ok:

[Lima Juliet]

Advo et al

This highly classified DIN is now on the Families Federation website:

http://www.raf-ff.org.uk/images/library/files/2011DIN01-060_(2)_unclassified.pdf

Out!

LJ

[Corporal Clott]

I've just found a copy of the RAF list at www.thewebgeneration.com/files/20101108-Air%20Force%20List-U.xls (http://www.thewebgeneration.com/files/20101108-Air%20Force%20List-U.xls)

From that, in 2010 we had:

1,966 JO Pilots
449 Sqn Ldr Pilots
185 Wg Cdr Pilots

504 JO WSO (all types)
299 Sqn Ldr WSO (all types)
190 Wg Cdr WSO (all types)

So if we look at the DIN we can see that we are losing 18x Wg Cdr WSOs out of 190 - about 9%. We lose 44x Sqn Ldr WSOs out of 299 - about 14%. For the JO WSOs we lose 68 from a total of 504 - about 13%.

The 170 from JO Pilot cadre of 1,966 is about 9%.

However when you start to look at branch specifics for just the Wg Cdr WSOs then we lose 2 out of 5 ALMs (40% in branch), 4 out of 12 AEOs (25% in branch) and only 12 out of 171 Navs (7% in branch).

Interesting stuff, eh? :8

Cpl Clott

[The B Word]

Well if those figures are correct then the likely number of enforced redundancies aren't half bad.

I think the interesting one is the lack of JO, Sqn Ldr and Wg Cdr PILOTS. Is this because they're expecting a bunch to PVR anyway this year as the Airlines finally start opening up again? Then they get reductions "on the cheap"?

Sounds plausible to me...;)

The B Word

[Hugh FW]

If you add up all of the numbers in the redundancy tranche 1, it adds up to about 1100ish. Therefore, there's about another 1600 to be announced in September if they want to get away with just 2 tranches.

A third of my rank and half of the WOs in my trade are going in this tranche alone.

Whose next?

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Hugh,

Do you really think they are that clever?

Duncs:ok:

[Wrathmonk]

Wow ..... 232 engineers in wg cdr appointments.:sad:

12 to go on Tranche 1 (~5%).

Wonder how that percantage figure equates through the WO-SAC ranks....

[just another jocky]

Well if those figures are correct then the likely number of enforced redundancies aren't half bad.

I think the interesting one is the lack of JO, Sqn Ldr and Wg Cdr PILOTS. Is this because they're expecting a bunch to PVR anyway this year as the Airlines finally start opening up again? Then they get reductions "on the cheap"?

Sounds plausible to me...http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif

The B Word

Not that I know anything, but all the words I've heard are that (apart from the trainee pilots already announced) there wont be any pilot redundancies. I've even heard we're expected to be in pilot deficit in 2 years time. I assume that's due to natural wastage, and if true, I doubt they'll be accepting requests from pilots for voluntary redundancy.

I could be talking complete bolleaux, of course. I did once before, many years ago. :}

[Willard Whyte]

The brief I have attended suggested that if pilot numbers remained at today's level there would be a surplus by 2013 (withdrawal of various a/c) and a balance by 2015 (introduction of new a/c). One would have to assume it allowed for natural wastage but not pvrs.

[Jumping_Jack]

Irrelevant....:rolleyes:

[airpolice]

I don't think so.


Perhaps if they spent more of their time flying, then the training system would not need to generate so many of them.

Has anyone got figures for how many (serviceable) aircraft the RAF have?

[airpolice]

Gilbert, were you including the Reds in that count?

[NutLoose]

Quote:
Has anyone got figures for how many (serviceable) aircraft the RAF have?
It must be at least a dozen.

BGG


Naaaa there is a dead Tornado sitting at East Midlands, so make that 11......

Luckily it isn't a F3, the one that went into Leeming with a birdstrike to the canopy was scrapped and reduced to produce.

[Red Line Entry]

Pity it wasn't an F3 - we only need those for 3 more weeks!

[VinRouge]

The interesting question remains ... how much of a shafting can we expect take on our pensions? That, for me will be the go/no go decision maker.

[Exiled]

We'll begin to know the answer to that on Thursday when the Hutton report is published.

[Willard Whyte]

Good job they aren't getting rid of navigators.

Britain at risk from big satnav crash, say experts - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8367271/Britain-at-risk-from-big-satnav-crash-say-experts.html)

[Biggus]

WW,

You're right - they are getting rid of WSOs!

[Willard Whyte]

Any monkey can push buttons. Navigation requires knowledge, intellect and intelligence.

[airpolice]

Is that why the Monkey in the front of the F3 has the maps?

[27mm]

Don't be silly - no self-respecting F3 driver ever carries maps - that's what WSOs (god bless 'em) are for.

[Jumping_Jack]

IMPORTANT NOTICE - PROGRAM ERRORS FOUND IN THE ARMED FORCES REDUNDANCY CALCULATOR

A program error has been found in the Armed Forces Redundancy Calculator (AFRC) version 1.1 in respect to the redundancy element. The error has been corrected but unfortunately, those personnel that fall into the following categories will have received a spurious forecast and need to run a further forecast from Version 1.2 of the AFRC to obtain a revised redundancy award:

1. AFRS 06 and AFRS 10 - Break in Service - if you have entered a break in service under either redundancy scheme you will need to produce another forecast.

2. AFRS 10 - Enlistment date before age 18- if you have an enlistment date before age 18 under AFRS 10 you will need to produce another forecast.

3. AFRS 10 - Officers with an Enlistment date before age 21 - if you are an officer with an enlistment date before age 21 under AFRS 10 you will need to produce another forecast.

4. AFRS 06 - Rejoiner - if you are a rejoiner and entered a period of service to be aggregated with your current service under AFRS 06 you will need to produce another forecast.

SPVA apologise for any inconvenience caused by these errors, please ensure you use Version 1.2 of the AFRC to produce your revised forecast.

A copy of this message will be placed on the SPVA Info-centre and the MOD Redundancy web page WEF 09:00 17 Mar 11.