Work hard - Play hard??

[Admin_Guru]

I have been a serviceman for a long time and experienced the many phases we have encountered as we left behind 'Get some in' and embraced the PC, Tree hugging, Industry following situation that we find ourselves in. I admit to being a dinasaur in that I have to translate the modern 'wings' (BSW-FSW etc) into the old Admin Wg / Ops Wg / Eng Wg before having half a clue where to find what I am looking for in a telephone directory, and OC Ops being COS bewilders me. There was a short run on 'Quality of Life' and 'Harmony' that I found quite satisfying, but we could not afford them either. 'Budget restraint' started to hit home in about 1990 but did not work for we are now bankupt.

Setting this short stint of nostalgia aside; what I see now does not cost a single penny yet I am finding in abundance. Back biting and cat fighting amongst peers, and the ease with which a MAA is dispensed where previously a good old fashioned rollocking either in the boss' office or more often behind the hangar would have sufficed. The underhand schemes being used to get someone posted who doesnt quite fit in, or play the same tune as 'the management', incidently even if said person is operating by the book. The sad thing is that the next 3 years always were going to be a time of uncertainty, especially as the traditional job security has been removed.

I may be wearing rose tinted spectacles, but for goodness sake, can we not restore some of the values which for decades have ensured we are both military and proud. ...led by leaders capable of both appreciation and discipline. ...and peers who put "team" back into teamwork. We are otherwise imploding. I read yesterday of a statement many years ago by JFK. "Mankind must dispense with war, or war will dispense with mankind".

So endeth the rant

[xenolith]

Hmmmmmmm, might I suggest a quiet chat with your wing TRiM practitioner. Help is out there.

[D O Guerrero]

Unfortunately change has been the status quo for many years. You've got 3 choices - 1.leave; 2. accept it and move on (or "go forward" in the modern bull**** speak); or 3. fight it.
Options 1 and 2 are the only ones that probably won't lead to a premature death, so pick one of those two is my advice.
When you join the armed services you accept the way things are as your starting point. There are always, and will always, be people ahead of you who have seen how it used to be so much better, how things have gone soft, how people aren't up to the job anymore etc etc. This is the way of things in the forces.
"Management of Expectations" is something that good leaders practice well. Sadly, it seems people aren't as good at it as they used to be.

[Wensleydale]

I always used to think of the RAF as using the carrot and stick method. There was always the bad, but the benefits (good training deployments etc) lessened the pain and made life more worth while - I believe that it is called morale. Sadly, the carrot has been deemed too expensive and just the stick remains - the only reward for hard work it seems is to be hit harder as there must be some slack in the system for it to work well. If you don't wish to be hit then leave appears to be the message.

[The Old Fat One]

Ten out of ten for DOG and W'dale for two very good posts - short, incisive and spot on the money.

I noted the "carrot reduction" policy circa mid nineties, but as DOG points out my frame of reference was created in the late seventies. Those in today probably would see the mid nineties as a time of bountiful opulence!

Towards my departure (2003) the "hitting" seemed to be reaching a crescendo: sand pit, tents, 3 tins in a designated area, nightmare coach trips, allowances stagnating as inflation rose etc. etc. Above all a seemingly unstoppable tidal wave of bulls**t emanating from REMF's with career's to build.

I agree with DOG - don't fight (you won't win), adjust your frame of reference and cherish the good stuff, or reach for the yellow and black handle. Unfortunately, this time around it seems not everybody will be allowed to choose.

[Fareastdriver]

In the sixties and seventies I used to go to leaving thrashes with people who had reached the end of their commitment. The RAF did not need them any more so they had to leave and because of this some of them were in tears.

I wonder if that happens now..

[Kreuger flap]

I admit to being a dinasaur

Is that a type of dinosaur?

[Tiger_mate]

"I admit to being a dinasaur"

Is that a type of dinosaur?

Knob bait thats works really well:

A-G Too many people going with the flow = Easy life and downward trend, however they are right in that to fight is to fall on your sword for which there will be no thanks. Time to leave for the frustration of watching what you clearly care about deteriate will do you no good whatsoever.

[JMP6]

I sat in a Sgts' Mess about 6 years ago and listened to C.L. telling us all that if we didn't like where the train was going we should hop off at the next convenient stop (or words to that effect).

I am stunned and saddened by the train's subsequent routing, but if you don't like it you can leave. I did.

I wouldn't swap my time in the Service for anything, but I fear for its future. I also feel very sorry for those pilots chopped the other week. It's one thing to have the carrot taken away, but another thing entirely to have it inserted. Shame on whoever you are for the way you did it.

Hello to anybody that knows me by the way, as I don't post very often.

[Grabbers]

Admin Guru

You asked...for goodness sake, can we not restore some of the values which for decades have ensured we are both military and proud. ...led by leaders capable of both appreciation and discipline. ...and peers who put "team" back into teamwork.

At the risk of coming across all Barack Obama, yes we can. Your subordinates appreciate the little things that you do to make their life easier. I agree, things ain't what they were and no, the Service has no loyalty to me whatsoever. Exploit what little opportunities there are left but (and this is the important bit) take your lads and lasses along with you. You don't necessarily have to agree with the latest mission statement from 'The Party' but you also don't have to explicitly mention it at all.

Exercise your leadership, organise a UK based exped over a working week. Split your team into two, get them to organise the CILOR, cooking and transport. You organise an Exped leader (unless you are one of course), You balance the two halves to mix up ranks/gender etc. Then take a backseat and let them surprise you. Plenty of OJAR/SJAR fodder. The Service (choose your flavour) will not thank you for pushing too hard against the system. Neither will it benefit in the long term from meek acquiesence.

I disagree with the comments above about not fighting. Just fight smarter, not harder.

[The Old Fat One]

Ah, the old "don't like it then sod off" leadership speech. Heard it. Loads of times...and not just in the mob, but in civvy street as well.

What the macho types who spout this often fail to realise, is that half the audience are thinking....

"No mate, I'm not going anywhere, but if that's how you inspire us you'll be getting a lot less than your pound of flesh from me from now on."

Grabbers, don't fight, or fight smarter...that's just semantics.

[Grabbers]

TOFO

Not fighting implies accepting the Status Quo. No-one has to do that.

[Tiger_mate]

I would like to see a few more 'Grabbers' in the service for his/her? advice has merits. Unfortunately it also involves cost/expenditure which is the core problem across the piste.

[The Old Fat One]

Grabbers,

We're arguing in the margins old chum. Nobody has to except the status quo - correct. You can leave, or you can adapt. And maybe you can change things a little bit for those in your sphere of influence. I don't think that's what the other posters were referring to...I think they meant that fighting the "system" is a pointless, soul-destroying exercise. I agree with them - and I agree with you to.

[SRENNAPS]

The Old Fat One

What the macho types who spout this often fail to realise, is that half the audience are thinking....

"No mate, I'm not going anywhere, but if that's how you inspire us you'll be getting a lot less than your pound of flesh from me from now on."

Spot on mate! and my company is really feeling the wisdom of that mentality.

But sadly those Macho types seem to survive. Oh how this country would be a better place without them.

[minigundiplomat]

Exercise your leadership, organise a UK based exped over a working week. Split your team into two, get them to organise the CILOR, cooking and transport. You organise an Exped leader (unless you are one of course), You balance the two halves to mix up ranks/gender etc. Then take a backseat and let them surprise you. Plenty of OJAR/SJAR fodder. The Service (choose your flavour) will not thank you for pushing too hard against the system. Neither will it benefit in the long term from meek acquiesence.


Lots of people planning some walking Grabbers, but it has sod all to do with hills or AT. I'm afraid a few days in the Brecon Beacons aint going to sort this one out.

Some will stay, and I wish them well. The silent majority are quietly consulting the A-Z looking for the street marked 'Civvy'.

[Al R]

I wonder if those golden days. were really all that golden? We had good blokes running things 25 years ago, but we had some tossers as well. Same as now. The glue that holds it all together though is the craic out on the ground, in the Mess or on the Hanger floor and it didn't matter how badly you were being shafted.. if you knew that you were fighting and working for something worthwhile, then you tended not to mind. If thats gone though, then..

I agree with DOG - don't fight (you won't win), adjust your frame of reference and cherish the good stuff, or reach for the yellow and black handle.

.. what he /\ said.

[Yozzer]

fighting and working for something worthwhile

When was the last time we did that? Falklands perhaps. A century from now and Afghanistan will be the same and quite honestly; I question our right to think anything different. I struggle to evaluate what we achieved in interfering with Iraq beyond a change of leadership, because the civpop appear at face value to be suffering the same sh_t different day, and perhaps with even more violence on the streets.

Even the present news features will probably conclude with a variation of the same theme running the North African countries. So what have we done post 1982 for which we can stand tall and boast: "We did that".

Is it not about time we drifted onto Nimrod or the Fitness Test?

[Jayand]

Spot on Yozzer and I think that is crucial in what is wrong with HM forces just now, the money and more importantly the blood wasted in these pointless campaigns is dragging us all down a slippery slope that we may never again be able to climb.

[sisemen]

I attended the 50th anniversary of the RAF at Abingdon in 1968. It took HM the Queen almost all day to do the inspection route of aircraft. I attended the 75th anniversary in the rain at Marham. It took HM the Queen most of the afternoon to do the inspection route.

It'll probably be a 5 minute journey for the reigning monarch to do the 100th in a few years time.

And therein lies the problem. A horribly shrinking force with everyone snarling and biting each other to get a smaller and smaller slice of the ever diminishing cake while being asked to do more and more life-threatening things.

I read the inputs on this forum and I weep for the Royal Air Force that I spent 30 years in.

[Yozzer]

RAF 2018?
It'll probably be a 5 minute journey for the reigning monarch to do the 100th in a few years time.

It could be two minutes visit to an internet archive by then :{