PJI Watch

[Top Bunk Tester]

Seeing as they wear Mickey Mouse brevets, is it right that Mickey Mouse will soon be wearing one of these?

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad168/Gadget_Meister/PJIWatch.jpg

Website address removed to comply with PPrune policy

[Grabbers]

With redundancies imminent I'm assuming the watches also come with commemorative P45 attached.

[minigundiplomat]

Let me guess,

the hands don't move....the watch revolves around them?

[Top Bunk Tester]

Mgd

:D :D :D

[MrBernoulli]

Not a branded watch, then? Made in ..... Taiwan?

[Capt Niff Naff]

Is it not a worry that for a PJI it is water resistant to 5 atms - what does that say about an expert in an air based environment?
CNN

[Airborne Aircrew]

Let me guess,

the hands don't move....the watch revolves around them?

As an ex-Super Duper Airborne Trooper I have to say that your quote above is one of the funniest I've read... Or am I sheltered and this is a recycled joke? Either way, :ok:

[gijoe]

AA,

Not recycled and definitely worth 10/10...oh so true! Gimps the lot of 'em.

So which reputable company makes this fine and sturdy watch that can make a profit for £75 (with a donation)?

At that price per unit I predict that the PJI trade will last longer than any of the watches...and that can be counted in months not years.

G:ok:

[Echo 5]

It was once suggested to me that the only objects that fall from the sky voluntarily are PJIs and Bird Sh!t. Apparently the two are interchangeable ;)

[Trim Stab]

Is it not a worry that for a PJI it is water resistant to 5 atms


Is it puke proof too? 90 paras each chucking a full vom bag at the PJI as they go out the door could soon exceed 5 atms.

[Airborne Aircrew]

It was once suggested to me that the only objects that fall from the sky voluntarily are PJIs and Bird Sh!t. Apparently the two are interchangeable

Echo, dear boy... Since I'm one of the very few that can respond with any credibility here I'll remind you of the men the PJI's train... The one's that have the gonads you clearly lack... :E

[minigundiplomat]

Reminds me of a joke about the Falcons.

Whats the difference between a C130 full of RAF Falcons and a Hedgehog?

On a Hedgehog, the pricks are on the outside.

[gijoe]

MGD provides another great encore! 10/10

Airborne-Aircrew I am with you.

The excuses I have heard range from:

'Why would I leave a perfectly servicable aircraft?'

to

'I could have done it...but I was injured.'

to

'You must be mad...'

There are those that have done it, and there are those that always said they were going to...next week....next year...they were scared!!

Anyway, who makes this fine watch?

G - Chairborne at this time :ok:

[Grabbers]

I have naught but respect for anyone who parachutes. But, what need is there for RAF PJI's in this mans shrinking RAF? Could the task of training those with far larger cahunas than I not be done by those who have an operationally relevant role?

[xenolith]

(imagine the lazy drawl of a southern belle)

Ohh! Airborne Aircrew, your so brave and hunky, I would shurrly lerve to have your babies..........

so long as they arn't ginger and stink of pee that is!

[Top Bunk Tester]

Can somebody explain how on God's green earth PTS escaped the wrath of the SDSR when we're losing CAS & Int assetts hand over fist. With space becoming a major premium at an Oxon Secret Airbase surely they must have been in the frame to go. Last time I looked we were fighting a war where CAS & Int were very much needed and airborne assault wasn't. Before anybody try's to play the SF card, they could easily be trained at Bragg by a very small contingent of brevet stealers. :ugh:

[Airborne Aircrew]

Xenolith:


Ohh! Airborne Aircrew, your so brave and hunky, I would shurrly lerve to have your babies..........

so long as they arn't ginger and stink of pee that is!

Do you know me? :eek:

[Echo 5]

Airborne Aircrew.

Oh dear.......I take a lighthearted poke at PJIs (and not the entire Airborne Fraternity) and you take the hump. Recognising your pedigree as a Pruner I must admit I am disappointed.

With regard to your uneducated jibe at my gonads......at my age am I bovvered ? Not at all ;)

[Pontius Navigator]

Can somebody explain how on God's green earth PTS escaped the wrath of the SDSR when we're losing CAS & Int assetts hand over fist.

Head down, buttocks clenched, position assumed.

I hope the watch is also shock proof.

[Airborne Aircrew]

Echo, dear boy...

Did you happen to miss the " :E " at the end of my post. It's there to indicate that I am being "evil" as the little pop up help thing tells you when you put your mouse over it. It indicates that I was after a bite... I suppose I could have gone through the trouble of going and getting this one - http://www.hqrafregiment.net/images/smilies/fishing.gif - but it seemed like a lot of effort and you were clearly an intelligent and good humoured chap so it didn't seem necessary.

I got my bite though...

[Airborne Aircrew]

Hey echo and aircrew bod why don't you two just get a room and have a bit of http://www.honda-forums.com/images/smiley_icons/wanking.gif time together....

Would you like to make it a threesome? We'll let you be the boy once... :E

[Runaway Gun]

Last time I looked we were fighting a war where CAS & Int were very much needed and airborne assault wasn't.

Sorry to be serious for once, but isn't this the typical misguided view to cut any job/aircraft/kit/capability. We aren't using it in THIS war? :hmm:

[Top Bunk Tester]

Runaway Gun

And would you like to inform us of when the LAST British airborne assault took place (I know, but just wondered if you did) I'm not talking about any SF drops, but Para battallion stuff. In all honesty can you ever see it being used again. I hope the're not being kept just so the Cherry Berets can keep wearing their hats. :confused:

For Spelling, Thanks AA

[Runaway Gun]

TBT - I see your side here, I'm just critical of the method applied to seemingly blindly justify cutting such capabilities and expertise - especially by people who don't know anything about the role (nothing personal).

When's the last time an RAF F-4, F-3 or Typhoon shot down an enemy aircraft?

[airborne_artist]

And would you like to inform us of when the LAST British airbourne* assault took place (I know, but just wondered if you did) I'm not talking about any SF drops, but Para battallion stuff.Op Palliser :ok:

It's not hard to imagine airborne/waterborne forces being deployed in just the situations we've been seeing in North Africa to secure and defend a port/airfield to enable an evacuation to take place.

The flexibility of delivery offered by the Paras, Marines and the likes of 3 Sqn could be just what is needed some time soon - the fact that they have not been used day in, day out for a while does not mean they are redundant.

*There is no U in airborne, but there is a U in .. :ok:

[Top Bunk Tester]

Runaway Gun
Nothing personal taken :O

I know the answer to that too, although the story varies and I'm not talking about the Jaguar.

I firmly believe that there is more chance of a shoot down occurring than of an airborne assault. I also see your broader point of view WRT cuts. However if you put the current action(s) that we're involved with aside, then any logical mind would say that the future needs to concentrate on SH, S/T AT, CAS & Int. But whoever said that logic from Parliment or MoD would ever play a part in sensible decision making. And I'm with you in that we don't need as many FJ assets ..... in fact post SDSR we'll have a lot less, but then every part of our services have been hit, apart it seems from the biggest waste of space at BZN that is PTS :mad:

AA

Am I missing something here? At which point in OP Palliser did any, non SF, parachuting take place? I assume that you took airborne assault in it's broadest term.

In order for any of the scenarios you describe above to take place there needs to be the following in place first .... SH, S/T AT, CAS & Int ..... before anybody steps through any door on a green light.

I am not denouncing the Para battallions in any way and am fully aware of their contributions, past and present, I just question ONE of their roles for the future. And yes I have done the odd 1 or 1500 jumps.

[SmilingKnifed]

TBT, non-SF troops dropped into op-Palliser (Lunghi Airport if memory serves?). Even our own beloved 2 Sqn were involved.

[Top Bunk Tester]

SK
I will fall on my sword if wrong, but at what strength did this drop take place, Squad, Coy, Regt, Btn? If less than Coy then you can't really call it a full scale airborne assault. Also was it actually necessary at all, or was it another little publicity coup to keep airborne forces going, could it have been done successfully by other means ..... Tactical landing and deployment by Herc for example.

[airborne_artist]

AA

Am I missing something here? At which point in OP Palliser did any, non SF, parachuting take place? I assume that you took airborne assault in it's broadest term.2 Sqn RAFR jumped in to provide an outer line of defence for the main operation.

Also was it actually necessary at all, or was it another little publicity coup to keep airborne forces going, could it have been done successfully by other means ..... Tactical landing and deployment by Herc for example.

I doubt they did it for the PR, given the comparative risks of the two delivery methods, given a secure airfield/LZ.

[Airborne Aircrew]

There's one tiny little point that everyone misses about Marines, Paras etc. and it often has little to do with the actual use in operations. Marine and Parachute training, when complete, leaves you with fit, highly trained, highly motivated soldiers that one can rely upon unquestionably. Just as many people ask "why do they need to be so fit, why all the beasting"? It's far more than "can Private Bloggs get from A to B with a humongous pack at the speed of a greased gazelle?". It about pushing the man to his physical limits... Then a little further and watch what he does. If he quits or slacks off he's finished. What you have left are the men you want.

Remove that "pinnacle" of regular soldier and all you've done is allow your standards to drop and have lost a whole gob of capability and experience. You can manufacture the former - the latter will cost lives.

[Top Bunk Tester]

As I said earlier, nothing but admiration for our 'airborne' forces et al. I am just talking about cutting out one of their roles and then by definition disestablishing PTS

[airborne_artist]

It's far more than "can Private Bloggs get from A to B with a humongous pack at the speed of a greased gazelle?"

Which as we all know, is the easy bit. It's being able to fight at the end of the tab that matters.

The trouble with CDS/CAS talking about airborne/seaborne training in this way is that it makes the infantry look like second-class citizens :}

[Army Mover]

I am just talking about cutting out one of their roles and then by definition disestablishing PTS

I suspect that if "you" did, that you might find it taken over by the Army; as many have said, there is more to parachuting than just jumping from aircraft; it is part of an ethos that creates a special soldier, parachuting is one of many means of insertion available to them.

I don't have a view either way on what use PJI's are to the RAF, but my opinion for what it's worth is that if you saved money by discarding PTS, that you would not get it back elsewhere in the shape of an aircraft or helicopter, so another wasted capability, gone just like Maritime Patrol.

[foldingwings]

What, Why and for How Long has the PJI Benevolent Fund existed!

First I've heard of it and it doesn't Google easily (aka 'at all')!

Sounds like a scam to me, chaps, to fur-line somebody's back pockets!

Foldie (:(the sceptic!)

[davejb]

Now don't get me wrong, the thought of jumping out of an aircraft for no good reason is one of those things that wakes me at 3 am once in a blue moon...I am not a fan of the idea, although when I did fly I would probably have happily strapped a chute on if available, as I am pretty sure I cannot fly.

BUT (heaven help me) I'm with Airborne Aircrew on his point - the para training produces an excellent soldier, and whether he ever does drop into combat is immaterial, because he has shown time and time again that this soldier is simply better than the other regiments produce.

The less troops you have, the more they need to be like Sylvester Stallone (in the films, not real life). I would have thought the cost of keeping this all going, set against the force multiplier that is airborne qualification, made it a fairly good deal. They're tougher troops, end of.

Dave

[Trim Stab]

In peacetime parachuting is about the only infantry exercise that is genuinely frightening, plus it also usually takes place at dawn, after no sleep for 24 hours, possibly after puking a couple of times, and then is followed by a strenuous test of stamina - just like a real operation. Most other infantry exercises miss out the "genuinely frightening" part which rather defeats the objective of the excercise.

[gijoe]

As other have alluded to, lobbing in is only the method of transportation - the hard work begins after that.

I always alikened it to running a 1/2 marathon in terms of the build-up, inevitable delays when the frame goes t*ts, back on the bus having not slept, lob itself, and then the adrenalin comedown when you realise that you can still talk and walk and have a job to do.

It is genuinely hard work and the guys that do it are those that have proved to others that they will push themselves a little futher when their noses are to the grindstone. The Army does not need PJIs - it is not that hard and no black art despite what those resident in the hangar in Oxon might have you think. There are plenty with the skills that could teach this alongside their other job. Other different parachuting skills included.

So...is this watch company something that might be need reporting to Trading Standards?

Is it being run by a PJI-retd type? :rolleyes:

:ok:

[minigundiplomat]

Is it being run by a PJI-retd type? :rolleyes:


Mate,

you can't call them retards these days - even if you do abreviate it. It's not on apparently.

[Echo 5]

Airborne Aircrew.

I got my bite though

That's odd............thought I had one as well:D Good banter tho.

Not so sure about a threesome:yuk:

[Trim Stab]

I hope the're not being kept just so the Cherry Berets can keep wearing their hats

I trust that comment was made in ignorance, rather than to antagonise..

[Top Bunk Tester]

TS
At last somebody got it ................ did you know you can have a debate and still inject banter into it :}

[Airborne Aircrew]

Echo, dear chap... I'm Airborne Aircrew... The other chap is Airborne Artist... Seems you get all in a tizzy when "airborne" is mentioned... You sure about the threesome? We promise not to co.... Never mind... ;)

TBT...

hats...

Sorry, that was crap... :p

[Top Bunk Tester]

AA
tick VG :D :D :D

[ProfessionalStudent]

When I saw the thread title "PJI Watch", I had images of Bill Oddy and Kate Humble in a hide at Brize with a couple of pairs of binos and a flask of tea...

How disappointing to find out what it really was...

[Grabbers]

Mmm, Humble....


Anyway, to stay slightly on topic I don't think there is much of a cogent argument for doing away with Airborne Forces, Special or Regular. Surely the salient question has to be why on earth are the Instructing staff drawn from a pool of RAF PTI's with no operationally relevant role? Could that job not be undertaken by people whose experience under a canopy goes beyond the candy floss and ice cream chomping public?

[Echo 5]

Airborne Aircrew.

Correction made, apologies to both Airborne chappies. Had a long day :O

[gijoe]

The training and operational roles of the PJI are highly-skilled and are such that demand a full-time dedicated teacher to do so...according to all PJIs!

Candy-floss and ice cream munchers that they are, they can never get beyond their own role protectionism and egos. The hierarchy in PTS, all PJIs, is such that the deliverers of training, the Cpls and Sgts of this world, never seem to know what was going on during courses because the management would deliberately not tell them to keep then guessing???? Back biting nearly always ensued whenever I was there????

Anyway...it must be time for another of MGD's fine one-liners!

G:ok:

[Airborne Aircrew]

Echo:

apologies to both Airborne chappies.

No apology necessary. Everyone knows it's hard to distinguish one bronzed, Airborne God from another when you are dazzled by their personalities... :}

[Echo 5]

Airborne Aircrew,

Everyone knows it's hard to distinguish one bronzed, Airborne God from another when you are dazzled by their personalities...

Hate to say it mate but with a statement like that you could be mistaken for a PJI :)

[airborne_artist]

I prefer the term Airborne Warrior, safe in the knowledge that no PJI has ever got close to the two-way range ;)

[charliegolf]

bronzed, Airborne God

Rust?

CG:ok:

[xenolith]

Its not bronze or rust........... I think that you will find that it is GINGER!:E

[Airborne Aircrew]

Hate to say it mate but with a statement like that you could be mistaken for a PJI Noooo... They only think they're gods...

I prefer the term Airborne Warrior Good point, well made... :ok:

Rust?What is it with people who I don't appear to know referring to my hair colour and certain dubious odours of late... :hmm:

[davejb]

One does rather wonder, at times, whether PJIs oughtn't to be, for example, serving members of the paras who, for example, stroll down the back of the plane and jump out yelling 'follow me'.

Actually, in all honesty, I have never yet understood why the RAF has PTIs at all - during my service I just rather assumed the recruiting offices had some sort of remit that required them to sign up wannabe male models, and the PTI school was where these people were then sent.

I always thought they were quite unbalanced, frankly.

Dave

[Green Flash]

Bring back the Glider Rgts, I say. Get the VGS's to teach ab initio and get the BBMF Dak to tow 'em. Made of wood and balsa and paper and fabric and stuff makes them stealthy. Brilliant. I should be CAS, me. I'm wasted in this job. Brilliant.







What? What do you mean, get away from that pooter? Oh, allright nurse, allright, I will .......

[Nomorefreetime]

Give it to the Para's.

Next thing the AAC will take over all small / medium Helo and all small fixed wing prop jets.

Keep what we've got. Perhaps a seperate trade group for the PJI's. All Blue jobs are vital to keep a hold of.

[Airborne Aircrew]

Give it to the Para's.

Wrong answer...

25 years ago the RAF Regiment were far more experienced in the air than the Parachute Regiment. The Paras were jumping a couple or three times a year if they were lucky. II Sqn. was doing an average of 10 per year. II Sqn was also the unit used to trial new stuff like the "stretched" C-130 and the "Wedge" then both.

I'm sure not much has changed in that regard.

[Nomorefreetime]

That's ment to be a joke.

I work closely with the PJI's. I'm not Aircrew or linked to Para in anyway.

Even RAF Regt couldn't provide the skills (in the short term, anyone can learn new stuff granted) needed to teach all aspects of Mil jumping. Basic para stuff maybe but not the specialist stuff.

[Green Flash]

Why not privatise all para training? Once aforementioned soldier is on the ground then it's a new ball game, but the art of stepping out, retardation, steering and arrival is the same wherever you are? Once on the ground then the black and green death machine springs into action, whereas your civvy sports jumper goes to the bar. A few qualifing jumps off the ramp or via the para doors, fair enough, but could alot be done outwith the military? Many people learn to drive in the military via a civvy instructor first, followed by role/kit specific training after. Could the same be applied to para training?

[Airborne Aircrew]

Sorry...

I wasn't suggesting it be given to the Regiment either... They have a proper job... :)

I actually think that the training responsibility for military parachuting is best placed with the RAF. Firstly, parachuting requires aircraft. Unless you are going to give transports to the Army or the Marines parachute training will be impossible to complete. Too much backstabbing and infighting over scheduling. As it stands you have flying tasks for RAF personnel.

Also, can you imagine how much more insufferable the PARAs would be if they trained Marines and Gunners too?:E

[Airborne Aircrew]

KF:

That's nice from someone from Ipswich...Can you even count your toes? :ugh:

[gijoe]

...but let's be honest, it is not too far off of the truth!

G:ok:

[Trim Stab]

Could the same be applied to para training?


No. The PJIs do more than just training - they also oversee all aspects of the operational jump from within the aircraft, performing safety checks and coordinating the sticks (when jumping from both doors). They could not be civilian, unless you want to send civilians into the battlespace.

I'd agree with Airborne Aircrew that parachute training should remain with the RAF. Paras are just one client - albeit the largest. A typical para course will be about 80% para, with the rest made up of RM, a few gunners and medics (after P-company, so wearing maroon berets), a few baby SF, RAFR, and even the occasional fishhead (SPAG types). Best to have that lot controlled and trained by a neutral cadre of RAF. Besides, as AA also pointed out, the aircraft are controlled by RAF so RAF PJIs fit better into that command structure.

[Just This Once...]

It's pretty much an accident of history that led to RAF PTIs down the back of the aircraft; same again with with the Army dispatchers. I'd be very reluctant to give up the 47AD guys so suffering the PJIs is a price I am willing to pay.

[gijoe]

You beat me to it - I was going to ask which Branch wanted the role of cutting the snips on a wedge because it involves an aircraft?

'...Must be an RAF branch because it is on an aircraft' is a bit tired.

As is 'awareness of Flight Safety issues....'

The genie is out - it really isn't that difficult!

G:ok: