Ark Royal

[green granite]

According to the Sunday Times there is a proposal to more the Ark in London's dockland and use her as a heliport manned by about 150 veterans of recent wars. This sounds like a good idea for once.

[redimp1884]

If you read the last part of the article it says the RN are to buy maritime patrol aircraft for the Fleet Air Arm!:eek:

[proudfishead]

Having served on ARKR several times, and lost count of the number of DLs that I have done I would obviously like to see a fitting retirement for such a historic unit.

However, the idea of using her as a moored heliport (or museum as has also been suggested) has little merit. London is already well served by Battersea heliport in addition to London City Airport and numerous private sites around the city.

Additionnaly, the cost of hull and deck maintenance would be prohibitive. Ships do not respond well to being tied up long term, INVC has shown this with her worryingly thin main hull plate thickness. My concern would be that in fairly short order the operating company would be unable to meet the upkeep requirements and she would either fall into severe disrepair or end up being scrapped at a later date.

Also, the Port of London Autority seem to be indicating that they are not keen on a 20,000t moored carrier on the banks of the Thames; hardly surprising really.

ARKR was an amazing warship and her future needs to be appropriate and not a marketing fad.

[Not_a_boffin]

Bizarre how history repeats itself. Ark IV was also proposed as a heliport thirty-odd years ago.

The deterioration mentioned would have to be looked at, particularly on upper decks, but as a non-seagoing unit, the wave loads on the hull would be much less and so thinning of plate would be less of an issue. Much of that was allegedly due to some of the nasties in 3 basin in any case. Belfast gets away with a docking every 20 yrs or so on the Thames, so it's do-able if the money can be ringfenced in op costs.

It's likely to be more difficult to deal with all the new legal planning and access requirements (eg disabled access) that you'd need, although the weaps lift could always be converted(!!!!)

Would love to see her become a real museum with a future, but not holding my breath.

[mmitch]

My (admittingly fading) memory tells me that Ark Royal was the 3rd carrier built. So why is she being withdrawn before Illustrious?
mmitch.

[PeterGee]

Simply refit cycles. Illustrious is in refit now, so has longest to go before needing another refit!

[Bravo73]

London is already well served by Battersea heliport in addition to London City Airport and numerous private sites around the city.

Sorry to intrude but I feel that I must correct you: London is very poorly served by heliports. Battersea is a long way away from the commercial centre (ie the City or Canary Wharf), is very expensive and too small. London City Airport does not accept rotary traffic (part of their planning conditions when it was constructed) and any private sites are just that, private! (ie not accessible to 'public' traffic). London's peripheral airfields (eg Farnborough, Southend, Biggin, Luton etc) are all over an hour by car to the centre of town.

So, if this Ark Royal scheme can be made to work, then IMHO it is a very good idea.

[Corrona]

USS Midway Aircraft Carrier | San Diego Museum | San Diego Tours (http://www.midway.org/)

Obviously they've got/had the funds to do it properly...but what museum! Free entry to RAF bloke and missus too!

[Flugplatz]

I can echo Bravo73's comment, London has woefully inadequate heliport facilities despite a lot of pent-up demand. The capital certainly compares badly compared to most of its financial competitors. Apart from Battersea there is only really Vanguard on the Isle of Dogs that is commercially available (to some) and can be said to be within central London.

Flug

[muppetofthenorth]

Full story, for those interested:

Defence chiefs want Ark Royal, the retired Royal Navy aircraft carrier, to become a floating heliport on the Thames serving City tycoons.

It will be manned by an estimated 150 veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, including a number of disabled servicemen.

The 693ft long carrier, axed in last October’s defence cuts, could be operating as a heliport by May 2012 in time for the London Olympics.

Admiral Sir Mark Stanhope, the head of the navy, told The Sunday Times last week that the plan could safeguard the ship’s future.

General Sir David Richards, chief of the defence staff, added: “The idea of re-using HMS Ark Royal on the Thames is interesting, particularly if it supports veterans. I would be delighted in principle to see her in London.”

The carrier, currently in Portsmouth and due to be decommissioned next month, would be moored in the Royal Docks near City airport to ensure that a heliport does not breach noise pollution regulations. It is three times the size of the capital’s only other heliport at Battersea, in southwest London.

The heliport would provide quick links from the City to the main airports at Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted. It will be a short ride by river boat from the City and Westminster.

General Sir Mike Jackson, the former head of the army who is now chairman of the Homes for Heroes charity, said it was a “very exciting project which represents the holy grail for us in that it gives 150 veterans both jobs and housing”.

Paul Beaver, a director of the firm behind the bid, said: “It is much more than a commercial venture, it is inspirational. We’ll be providing work and housing for veterans and at the same time we will be saving one of the Royal Navy’s most iconic ships for the nation.”

Ark Royal was accepted into service in 1985 and served in the Iraq war.

Attempts by the Ministry of Defence (MoD) to sell the vessel as a working carrier had failed to attract a bid from overseas navies.

The MoD’s disposal services authority, which confirmed this weekend that it was considering the heliport plan, is also examining other offers to pay £2m for the vessel as scrap or to buy it as a floating hotel or tourist attraction.

The heliport is expected to have start-up costs of £25m, rising to £100m over five years. The taxpayer would receive about £3m for the carrier.

A spokesman for Liam Fox, the defence secretary, said he was “receptive to anything that would save Ark Royal for the nation and certainly anything that would help veterans”.

Fox will be consulting Stanhope and is expected to make a decision shortly.

The Ark Royal is named in honour of the galleon that led England to victory over the Spanish Armada in 1588. Five Royal Navy ships have carried the name.

Beaver, a director of the heliport firm, which he refused to name, said it had received backing for the plans at a meeting in mid-January with Sir Simon Milton, the deputy mayor of London, and the Port of London Authority.

Talks have also been held with the navy to determine the best way of converting the carrier into a heliport.

It could provide a base for police helicopters and for the air ambulance, which is currently stationed at the Royal London hospital in Whitechapel.

The Port of London Authority confirmed that it had held discussions with the company to ensure it would not cause navigation problems for other vessels using the river.

The Civil Aviation Authority said it had had discussions with the company over the possibility of using Ark Royal as a heliport but no application had been received.

Basing it on the Thames would give it immediate access to the main H4 helicopter route through London which runs along the river.

Single-engined helicopters are restricted by air traffic control to flying along the Thames for safety reasons, while twin-engined helicopters have much more freedom.

• The Royal Navy is looking to buy a fleet of maritime patrol aircraft for up to £1 billion just weeks after the MoD scrapped the new Nimrod aircraft at a cost of £3.6 billion.

The MoD confirmed last week that the navy wanted to buy its own maritime patrol aircraft to track enemy submarines replacing the Nimrods, which are being broken up for scrap.

The new RAF Nimrod MRA4s had not even come into service when the prime minister announced last October that as part of the strategic defence review he was scrapping Nimrod.

The navy, which was furious that RAF bosses had agreed to get rid of Nimrod, has already set up a team to buy a replacement and ensure that it is flown by the Fleet Air Arm.

The programme is being run by Commodore Simon Kings with a team made up of naval officers.

Navy chiefs have expressed concern about the loss of a maritime surveillance aircraft at a time when many countries, including China and Iran, are increasing their number of submarines.

[Navaleye]

Interesting. Where will they put them? Kinloss shuts in July.

WRT Ark Royal. I think its a good idea. She was built to be a helicopter carrier after all. I think she might have a hard time getting through the dock gates at the Royal though.

[Biggus]

I have no more knowledge of the inner workings of the MOD than the average man on the street, nor do I wish to. However, I don't believe the RN has its own pot of money, especially a spare £1Bn, to go out and buy replacement MPA - let alone a funding stream to crew and maintain them for the next 20+ years.

Surely any such intent has to go through the normal procurement cycle (even if it is crap?) go into the core budget, etc, etc, and will require ministerial approval at some point.

Or has the RN found a spare £1Bn down the back of the MOD sofa?

[Navaleye]

Biggus

Completely agree. I worked on LPD(R) from the start and that took7 years and even then it wasn't done. Now here is a thought. The US has lots of S3 Vikings in storage, how about using them? Nice and cheap too.

[ShyTorque]

However, the idea of using her as a moored heliport (or museum as has also been suggested) has little merit. London is already well served by Battersea heliport in addition to London City Airport and numerous private sites around the city.

I also totally disagree with those comments!

The helicopter fraternity, commercial and private, desperately needs another place to land in the capital.

I'm unsure how the 150 people would actually be employed, though.

[Not_a_boffin]

Just before the Hoovers were sent to AMARC, LM did a fatigue life study on the frame, which allegedly allowed for 23000 hrs. The average is apparently around 13000, which must have some single figure cabs in it......

Wouldn't fancy the avionics upgrade costs though........

[NutLoose]

I'm unsure how the 150 people would actually be employed, though.

Perhaps as staff running the accomodation for MP's in London that the unused parts of the ships accomodation could be converted to :ok:

[Navaleye]

Fair comment, I remember working with them and they seemed very capable then. But it was 20 years ago.

Circling back to Ark Royal. I don't the idea will float (:ok:). You only have to go to Excel and look across the dock and there's plenty of derelict land which could be used as a heliport. Much cheaper to build and run than an old CVS. Not much in the way of residential development either. I still dont think it would get through dock gates. It was never built for ships of that size.

Also, who are these 150 Veterans? Are they just milling around somewhere in East London?

[NutLoose]

Also, who are these 150 Veterans? Are they just milling around somewhere in East London?

Would be nice if it gave the Myriad of Homeless exservicemen that are living it rough in London a chance to get themselves back on their feet........... :ok:

They deserve a chance at this :D

[mickjoebill]

“very exciting project which represents the holy grail for us in that it gives 150 veterans both jobs and housing”.

Housing?

Why not spend £30m on a purpose built floating pontoon? Far easier to get from chopper to river taxi than from deck height of an aircraft carrier. Are flight restrictions or less more onerous if landing on a 50ft high floating structure?

With due respect to the UKs armed servicemen and women, Im not sure if the Ark Royal (a decrepid superceded modest sized carrier) is a positive symbol. The other warship near the Thames waves the flag with style and dignity and is available for sleepover for kids.

Having said that would a concord fit on Ark Royal's deck? and a Harrier? Helis could land on a pontoon next door:ok:
Mickjoebill