Possible PIA by QF mainline longhaul...predicted outcome?

[ejectx3]

If AJ refuses to grant future red tail flying to mainline pilots, and pilot body agrees to PIA.....what are the possible outcomes of this action do you think?

[Going Boeing]

The tactics to be used should definitely not be discussed on any open forum like this and it's essential that the pilot body stands united behind the direction that AIPA is negotiating. Any dissent that is put on a public forum would only strengthen management's resolve.

[ejectx3]

Not expecting tactics.....just scenarios......broadstrokes if you like

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

1-0 pilots.

[1a sound asleep]

Qantas will welcome this with open arms.

"Qantas today announced it is unable to continue operations in a difficult industrial environment with ongoing long term threats to the guarantee of flight crew operations. The airline has announced that 46 of the existing Qantas fleet will be sold to its sister airline Jetstar. Additionally 43 Qantas aircraft now up to 30 years of age will be withdrawn form use and sent to the scrap yard. Up to 500 flight crew will be made redundant through voluntary packages. Jetstar has agreed to reemploy up to 50% of the redundant pilots. CEO Alan Joyce said those pilots who act swiftly to accept the Jetstar offer are able to continue their career. Jetstar will commence operating SYD-LHR 14 times a week and SYD-LAX 26 times a week from the 1st of January. Prime Minister Julie Gillard supported Qantas' move in an effort to ensure that Australia does not lose its national iconic airline Qantas. Australian Tourism leaders were overjoyed at the prospects of lower fares into Australia to help boost tourism"

[Goat Whisperer]

can anyone here smell Pyrrhic victory?

I can barely spell it.

[Mr Mott]

1A interesting post where did your information come from ?

[ozaggie]

How do you say that?:8

[1a sound asleep]

Mr Mott - That was a news article I found when I Google searched Qantas in 2013


Goat Whisperer - I dont know where you were in 1989 BUT there was no way that Australian Airlines or Ansett could have kept functioning or survived unless they gave the pilots what they wanted, right?

And who was behind ensuring that these pilots never worked again in Australia? Bob Hawke. Now what political party is in power today?

Enjoy your job, enjoy your flying and enjoy what is still a good living. The options will NEVER be worth the stress. The options, please please see it, are way worse

[sof2011]

keep dreaming 1a sound asleep, as if

"Prime Minister Julie Gillard supported Qantas' move in an effort to ensure that Australia does not lose its national iconic airline Qantas".

Um if there is no Qantas, only Jetstar, then how does that work?!

What if the 50% of pilots refuse to go and work for Jetstar, I know I sure as hell wouldn't under that ultimatum, I'd prefer to work in McDonalds whilst organising a gig overseas. Or waiting for an international carrier to avertise jobs to pick up the slack left behind by QF getting rid of 43 aircraft :rolleyes:

What about the domestic operations. I am 100% any red tail flying would cease if your quote happened whilst the pilots there 'reassessed' their career, it would make em feel pretty 'sick'.

Of course this wouldn't cost the company anything?

So where are all the pilots going to come from?

Why do you think the fares will be any lower with Jetstar than currently with Qantas?
For example:
QF SYD-HNL-SYD: Depart SYD Wed 23 Feb, Depart HNL 06 Mar. $1146.
JQ SYD-HNL-SYD: Depart SYD Wed 24 Feb, Depart HNL 07 Mar. $1160. using the JQ fare that get you fed and watered like you do on a QF flight. Without food and water: $1040, wow 106 dollars less and don't drink or eat.
So don't believe it public, JQ is not always cheaper. :ooh:


Enjoy your delusional dreams in 1a.....:ugh:


Folks, ignore mental giants like 1aSA, as mentioned before unity is the key!

Stay united and we will secure our jobs and are future.

[1a sound asleep]

sof2011 - Dont shoot me. I am just the messenger. You have goggles on if you cant see their grand plan.

Fact is QF cant compete against the likes of EK and they will manouvere politics to try and survive. Fat cats on the 44th floor wont be taking a pay hit

And :ugh:"Stay united and we will secure our jobs and are future.":mad: I heard that in 1989 and look what happened.

[404 Titan]

AIPA Guys/Girls as well,

Can I give you a little advice? Keep this discussion to your own union website. Management moles troll this site and will probably post infuriating things to divide you. Do not reply to any of it and certainly don’t post anything about your plans or possible outcomes to PIA. You need to keep management guessing and on the defensive. Be smart and keep it close to your chest.

[neville_nobody]

Um if there is no Qantas, only Jetstar, then how does that work?!

They will just Phoenix Qantas and then rebrand Jetstar as QF and fly around under the one brand.

Now with Network on board they will be able to offer flights from mining charter to anywhere in Australia.

[tail wheel]

ALAEA Fed Sec: Qantas 1-0 Pilots.

Spot on! :ok:

"Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It"

[DutchRoll]

We're well aware of that, 404.

There is nothing super-secret here. We know management will use some pretty dirty tactics and flood the airwaves with PR spin & lies, like they have started doing already (26% payrise? Yeah right. I you believe anything like that was asked for you'd be gullible).

QF pilots are not totally silly. There has been a lot of talk of lessons from '89, the workings of the ALAEA dispute, and the machinations of the Fair Work Act.

Management shouldn't assume anything! Their (wrong) assumptions during the engineering dispute saw them literally haemorrhaging company profit and resulted in quite a few managerial sackings, I believe, after the dispute ended! ;)

[404 Titan]

DutchRoll

The mere fact this thread is here is indication some members of AIPA or more likely non-members and management want to keep the topic alive in a public forum. My advice from an outsiders point of view is don’t be drawn into any debate on a public forum like this because as sure as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west it will be used against you. I will not make anymore comment so hopefully the thread will die a natural death.

[Metro man]

Unfortunately there'd be more than enough pilots overseas willing to return home on conditions below the current QF ones to fill any gap. Might have to bump the package up a bit from current J* terms but there'd still be considerable savings.

Major airlines in first world countries are seldom short of applicants and any loyalties will soon go out the window in a mad scramble for the shiny jet jobs.

How many of the current QF domestic pilots joined Australian Airlines in 1989 ? These guys were quite happy to step into someone elses job back then but now want to stand up for their own conditions even though they were quite happy to help undermine other peoples.:hmm:

[mcgrath50]

more than enough pilots overseas willing to return home on conditions below the current QF ones to fill any gap.

"Metro man
Location: Asia"

Yourself included?

It's not 1989 anymore, if everyone sits around bitching about it there will never be pilot unity. The majority of pilots were still at school in 1989 (someone posted that statistic from the QF seniority list earlier). I'm sorry if this is harsh. I'm sorry for the guys who got shafted, I never want to see that happen again but don't now shaft us young guys who had no influence on the situation. An atomic bomb was used once to end WW2. Wars have ended since then without it as people learnt their lesson. :ok:

[SOPS]

Metro Man..I think you have a good point..even if others cant see it:D

[MEA332]

David and Goliath,

So the story goes a little like this, Q Management wants to step on the red eye LAMEs that work through the night keeping the fleet in the air,
The LAME who for years has been treated as second class citizens holds his chest out and his fist firm and stands his ground behind the ALAEA.

Now the the Pilots who for years have been known to be amongst the most professional pilots in the industry feel the pinch of AJ the Goliath who threatens to take the red tails to Jet Star for his own personal game of chess.

Australians largest airline, not only serves the country but is a national security requirement and defense strategy sits idle while the bean counters cry as they wont bring home the Christmas bonus they promised their wives. Yes Christmas, the time of year the bean counters are at home with their families as the engineers and pilots continue to work and make the airline what it is.

It takes special people to be nurses, doctors, LAMEs and Pilots.

A wise man once said, never take all the milk from the cow.... take away from your staff and you will have nothing to fall back on.

[Captain Dart]

Yeah yeah we get the picture about 'I was at school/learning to fly/a fetus' etc during 'that year' :rolleyes:.

The fact remains is that both QANTAS and Jet* today have pilots flying for them who turned their backs on their mates when the chips were down then and 'went back', to put it politely. Will they be trusted to hold the line this time?

QF pilots need to keep this in mind should difficult times lie ahead.

[MTOW]

What if the 50% of pilots refuse to go and work for Jetstar What was that famous line from 'The Castle'?

"Tell him 'e's dreamin'."

You're dreaming, sof2011

50%? Even disregarding the sad fact that within your ranks are people who "crossed the line", both proverbially and literally, back in that-year-we-dare-not-mention-here, it's an equally sad fact of life that the majority, when faced with the yawning abyss, will take the easy path - and management damn well know it.

You've got one thing going for you in 2011 that the domestic pilots didn't have in 'that year' - the owner of your airline doesn't have the Prime Minister of the country so deeply in his pocket that he owns that Prime Minister lock, stock and stinking, corrupt to his eye teeth barrel.

[Metro man]

"Metro man
Location: Asia"

Yourself included?

Not me, I'm happy where I am. However there must be a few CX B and C scalers living in tiny units in HKG breathing in toxic fumes all day long who'd jump at the chance of a move back home as long as the equipment was decent and the drop in pay was compensated for by a better lifestyle.

Unfortunately it's not the 1970s anymore for pilot terms and conditions. Competition is fierce from the likes of EK,SQ,CX etc. If you think QF can compete against Middle Eastern and Asian airlines in it's present form then get a proper presentation drawn up by professionals, with figures to back it up, present it to management and stand your ground.

If on the other hand you think change is necessary for survival then rather work with the company to make it as painless as possible. Don't go the way of General Motors.

[Captain Dart]

Worry not, flying for an Aussie airline is actually not that attractive any more to many of us overseas. It's why a lot of us left in the first place. Besides, it is still relatively easy for those of us working for some (obviously not all) foreign airlines to get basings or commute.

Strike-breaking for QANTAS, photocopying your own manuals with Tiger, wearing a crappy brown Virgin uniform or the delights of One Star conditions, on top of that the socialists taking a good proportion of your hard-earned in tax, defeats the whole purpose of coming back; why would you want to?

As per my previous post: QF pilots' main enemies are within, they've let down their mates before. You will need to watch these gentlemen very carefully.

[Bates Motel]

AIPA where are you?
The lil' tacker has been on TV and talk back radio talking up her argument, where the fcuk are you?
The public needs to hear from the pilots, through AIPA.
Struth, if you haven't got the PR campaign rolling by now you've stuffed it up before it's begun.
Get off your arses and get our message out to the media and the public. now, I say again, NOW

[Tankengine]

Capt dart,
I understand where you are coming from re thos gents.:eek:
The fact though is that there is only about 20 of them in longhaul.:ok:

[Keg]

The person behind AIPA's PR campaign has runs on the board. I'm prepared to back them and the COM. You won't get any further comment than that on a public forum.

[Transition Layer]

Umm, Tail Wheel, might want to check that scoreline from ALAEA again.

I think what Steve was trying to say was Pilots 1 - Qantas 0.

Your quote is very poetic but this is very different to 89.

[adsyj]

404 Titan

Message is understood, cheers. However could you do us a favour and fix the spelling mistakes.

I'm not trying to be the spelling police and you provide good advice but with the large red writing it is a tad irritating.