IIP BINNED, sorry is anyone surprised?

[TheMightyHunter]

It is only my humble interpretation of the opening sentence of the mighty email but it went something like:

Due to financial constraints we can no longer invest in our people!

It actually raised my morale a smidgen when I read it and thought "have they ever?"

I am sure someone far clever than me, (and more DII capable) can post the full email but please, never let the facts get in the way of a story!

[airsound]

If this is any use, when I was investigating the 'Trainee Pilots Sacked' story, I was told that the IiP affiliation actually ceased (coincidentally) this month, February. I confirmed this with IiP, who told me that MoD no longer appears on their list of organisations.

You couldn't make it up, could you....

airsound

[Cpt_Pugwash]

TMH
This was covered on page one of the "Quarter of RAF Pilots to be Sacked" thread.

The text you want is ..


From the IiP page on the intranet.,

"In June 2010, 2nd PUS wrote out to TLBs explaining that due to financial and resource constraints all IiP activity should cease. This means that after February 2011, MOD will no longer be IiP accredited and the IiP logo should not be used on anything connected with MOD. "http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/puppy_dog_eyes.gif
http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/statusicon/user_online.gif http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/report.php?p=6244478) http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/misc/progress.gif

[Alison Conway]

IiP was foisted on the MoD by that pratt Hestletine in an effort to make up numbers. I don't think for a minute that anyone actually BELIEVED in any of it, but it was convenient to "make it plain" that the MoD would play along as a government lap dog. Another set of stationery to buy then as the IiP logo will have to come off - I wonder how much that will cost? Politicians? - Up against the wall!

[Pontius Navigator]

Alison, don't forget all the plaques to be removed from walls too.

IiP was also part the the relevant CinCs resettlement and CV preparation. My boss, some 20 years ago, was well into Service Level Agreements and QA.

Ever tried to apply QA to a thought process?

Years later I was able to put SLAs to good use. We used to write to English Nature and often had to wait weeks for a reply if at all. Then I asked them what their SLA was - answer 20 days. Thereafter we always got a reply.

But in a military environment?

[Thelma Viaduct]

The country is going 3rd world, Ethiopia will be having benefit concerts for the UK within 10 years.

All due to thatcher ruining industry, the lifeblood of any 'real' economy.

As Frankie Boyle says, "when the bitch dies, there will be a queue of people wanting to dig her grave and deliver her Satan personally".

Never a truer word said.

[Toddington Ted]

You're correct; IiP was a government initiative of the day and Public Sector organisations were hurriedly encouraged to become compliant to encourage the Private Sector to do the same. At the time of IiP's introduction I could not see what the fuss was about as, at that time, we very much invested in our people (OK, perhaps not as well as we could) but we did. I was pinged to introduce IiP at sunny AKI in 97 and I recall OC Admin Wg giving his best Noel Coward impression when briefing me, "You'll deal with this as the educator as it's anathema to me dear boy." IiP was, and is, only a framework for training and development but the paper chase it generated was a chuffing joke (and a gopping plastic blue triangle). Very interested to see PUS's announcement last year which wasn't exactly trumpeted. Not surprising really as we have done f*all since.:(

[minigundiplomat]

All due to thatcher ruining industry, the lifeblood of any 'real' economy.



WTF?

How was your 13 year holiday on Mars Pious?

[An Teallach]

So IiP has gone the way of all BSBingo management fads. Are any still current in what's left of the RAF? Is LEAN still the saviour of the universe or am I showing my age and a few fads behind?

[Grabbers]

One "word"...





















Fe@r. :ok:

[The Old Fat One]

IIP is, was and always will be utter b***cks.

Many an IIP consultant has grown fat on his/her fees whilst filling endless reams of garbage about some company or other that's needs the tick to win a public sector contract.

I was on the station team when IIP was initially introduced and I saw nothing in it that was not either common sense or stifling bureaucracy - and the RAF have been doing both those things well since 1918.

Years later I needed the tick for my company so I paid some dude two grand and two months later we were on the register with a plaque on wall.

Good riddance.

[An Teallach]

Did the same myself, OFB. Somehow managed to get the tick in the box and plaque for my software house without 90% of the paperwork the RAF deemed necessary.

I seem to recall that in about '95 in some dark recesses and peripheral backwaters of the RAF, the last vestiges of a quaint old tradition called 'Leadership' desperately clung on; despite overwhelming attempts to stamp out the heresy, which rivalled Agricola's extirpation of Druidism.

[An Teallach]

I have been out too long! I understood WTF and AKT.

[Kitbag]

Quote:
I have been out too long! I understood WTF and AKT
What The Fu*k

Akrotiri

Maybe An T meant he didn't understand 'E@D', 'GPC' and 'RSOI'? How about 'FE@R'?

[Finningley Boy]

So IIP is no longer important enough to spend the money on, but on the other hand..................

Quote:
Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Defence Policy and Business | RAF recognised as top lesbian, gay and bisexual employer (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/DefencePolicyAndBusiness/RafRecognisedAsTopLesbianGayAndBisexualEmployer.htm)
So that's allright then.


I'll bet the Navy and Army arn't 'alf jealous!:ok: So will the "force for good" be getting a new uniform? Pink trim perhaps?:p

FB:)

[Pontius Navigator]

I refused to do the GPC test, all the mouse work gave me RSI. They still have me the card. So much red tape I chucked it in the safe.

Another consultancy milch cow is environment. We had Enviros and a retired colonel come around and did an environmental survey. Joke.

What they did was took the JSP, reformatted the pages, filled in a load of crap and got us to edit and populate it. They took our discs and then sent us a nice printed document. They did ask to come back and check but by then we had all had enough.

To my certain knwoledge it sat, unopened, on bookshelves for 3 years. Still it was a wonderful CYA exercise for the full Colonel that placed the contract with his mate.

[Wensleydale]

All due to thatcher ruining industry, the lifeblood of any 'real' economy.


I am glad that the 34 year old who wrote this utter b*ll*x can remember the period 1974 - 1978 so well! I seem to remember that 3 day working weeks, power cuts and the "Winter of Discontent" happened before Mrs Thatcher's time. 1979 was a breath of fresh air (and yes, I was brought up in a mining village). I seem to remember that Scargill had something to do with ruining industry as he tried to cause anarchy in the streets with his red revolution which was the main aim of bringing "his" miners out out every conceivable oportunity. Fortunately, the right side won.

[c130jbloke]

Is that the same Maggie who gave my grandparents a chance to own their own council house ?

And the same Maggie who ( thankfully ) took no cr@p form either the miners or the Soviets ?

I love it when you get some whineing lefty, because deep down you know that no socialist will ever be able to compare to her :ok:




And she sorted out BA's tailfins - RESPECT !

[Finningley Boy]

Hear Hear!

Well said wensleydale. I use to pop home on leave from Spadeadam to my parents home in Skelmanthorpe each weekend. Passed at least two pits every monday morning on the way into Wakefield to get the Train up to Carlisle, there they all were standing around their braziers. My Step Father, God rest him, worked, shall we say, with Scargill at one of the local Colliery's back in the day. He said work was something which he spent a lot of effort to avoid. Indeed, that effort was devoted to getting to where he finished up.:suspect:

FB:)

[Brian 48nav]

One thing Pious Pilot and his pseudo-leftie mates forget is that Mrs T and her government were democratically elected by the people, and in 1983 in particular with a massive majority. I can't be faffed to look up the figure!

Let me tell you a story about industry - I was told by someone who worked for MG at Abingdon ,that they used to build cars 24/7,but the night shift guys came to work with sleeping bags,got their heads down and at the end of their shift proceeded to start assembling cars on overtime. MG sold most of their sports cars to the US market,all at a huge loss. It could not go on, and didn't!

Mrs T was hugely respected around the world, because she was tough and not a pushover. The best PM of my lifetime.

[cazatou]

Mrs T always ensured that a "Thank You" letter was sent to the Captain of the Crews that flew her. I also recall a memorable Cocktail Party at No 10 that she hosted to thank all those who were involved in the Tasking and conduct of her Flights.

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

IiP binned? My arse.

These things have a shelf life. They function to provide non jobs and backhanders to Quangos, Directorships, etc

But at some stage during their lifespan, the ability to fleece the customer diminishes, and the project is allowed to wilt, allowing the chance for a new initiative!

IiP is being replaced, and so the cycle continues.

(Its the same with your iPhone/IT system/TV system/etc)

[Thelma Viaduct]

Coal dug by 7 year olds in Brazil is no doubt cheaper, as are clothes made by 5 year old Indonesian kids.

The North made Britain great, the south dismantled it & p1ssed it all up the wall. This is where the paper economy burns in front of your face.

I would personally deliver thatcher to Satan, if the chance ever arose. :ok:

What has the south ever offered that is actually tangible??? like the people, it's just plastic.

[minigundiplomat]

Hmmm, chips on both shoulders. Why don't you stick them to one side and take the whippet for a walk.

Either way, this is an aviation forum. If you can't get over the miners strike 27 years on, then go moan about it somewhere else.

[c130jbloke]

Second that.

[aw ditor]

Thought English mining expertise came from Cornwall originally, that is South (well South West)!

[Canadian Break]

RANT MODE SELECTED. Before joining the RAF I had the misfortune to be a policeman on the front line during the miner's strike, and for quite a while was at Bilsthorpe Colliery - a pit that wasn't on strike but was being targeted by flying pickets. My recollection of talking to those miners at Bilsthorpe was that the strike was politically motivated to topple the Government of the day - a Government that had been ELECTED by the people of this country. It had little, or nothing to do with coal and the closing of mines that were no longer producing coal economically. The so called pickets were, for the most part, hired thugs whose weapons of choice were platic bags filled with paint stripper and apples and potatoes with sharpened 6" nails through them or razor blades embedded in them; they were used to roll under the police horses - such nice people. I was also at Orgreave Coke works on that infamous day when Scargill told the world that he had been assaulted by the police. Trust me, he wasn't; I was within 10' of him and, if I could have got closer, he would have been! So, guess where I'd rather live, a country run by Mrs T (who was by no means perfect), or one run by Scargill and his ilk (and I include Blair and Brown) - the "something for nothing" merchants.SORRY, RANT MODE OFF!:\

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

Pious Pilot you sound (like) really annoyed.

[Kitbag]

What has the south ever offered that is actually tangible??? like the people, it's just plastic.

Well in aviation terms, Supermarine and Hawker were both from the south, came up with the goods when required.

[minigundiplomat]

A quick flick through Pious Pilots posts revealed he [or she] doesn't like:

Southerners
Labour
Tories
Mrs Thatcher
Mr Blair
Mr Brown
French
Wars in Iraq/Afghanistan
Anyone who disagrees with him

The list goes on and on. In some ways its almost heartening that people like him still exist. I thought PC etc had killed off all the radicals, but at least one, sad, bigoted, miserable, unhappy, vengeful and generally blackhearted northerner still sits in the corner of the pub drinking mild in his underpants and throwing wee at anyone originating South of Harrogate.

[sisemen]

Then there was the Mrs Thatcher that, having spent multi-millions on building Mt Pleasant, couldn't work out why the boys and girls were still getting free food and accommodation. So the word went out that those charges should be imposed.

"Get farked" said we at MOD. So I arranged a tri service team to take a senior treasury guy down there to have a look for themselves. Cue lots of bags of mouldy vegetables, tales of delays to the shipping schedules, crappy accommodation (Onion Range springs to mind) etc etc etc.

The result? A lovely report written, backed by senior treasury, a quick meeting with Maggie who wasn't going to take any bull, and the decision was overturned.

Lesson learnt? She was never to be bullsh*tted 'cos that would never work and you could be at the receiving end of the famous handbag for your troubles. Tell it like it is with enough supporting evidence and she was on your side for life. :ok:

[Wensleydale]

South of Harrogate.

But I note that his location is Lancashire which explains all....as we say in Wensleydale, "Two things come from the west. Bad weather and Lancastrians".

[D O Guerrero]

Back to IIP. Not sure what all the fuss is about. Certainly as far as the RN was concerned, almost all of the requirements of IIP had been met since Nelson was a boy. It was an easy exercise for each unit to be accredited - a short visit from some guy and stick up a blue plaque. Being recognised as an investor in people is something to be proud of. No?
Anyone who thinks that the Forces don't deserve such an accreditation is living in a dreamworld. Civvy Street doesn't even begin to live up to the level of support that uniformed service people receive.

[Pontius Navigator]

D O G, quite agree, it is the bull**** quotient that required the Services to demonstrate that it could jump through hoops.

Maybe the MOD should introduce its own excellence scheme to which commercial organisations aspire - like all these boot camp programmes and fitness gurus.

On second thoughts, after SDSR and this months fiasco, perhaps not.

[FJJP]

A large base on which I served decided to apply for the IiP award. I cost a fortune financially and the amount of work heaped on individuals was enormous. We were doing it all anyway, it was just the sheer weight of admin and paperwork that took the time.

All to get a cheap plastic plaque to hang in SHQ and the clearance to print the "IiP" logo on Station letterhead.

When the appropriate ceremonials were done, the whole thing was quietly forgotten and the pretty folders and photographs relegated to the end of the station presentation for visitors. We carried on working as we always had done, having yet again proved to the civi world that the Britmil knew how to look after their people. Once again, a small civi organisation trousers a wadge of cash to sell their pretty badge. Once again, it benefitted absolutely no one, because what we were doing was better than offered.

Just another fad in the "management speak" stakes...

[SRENNAPS]

IiP binned? My arse.

These things have a shelf life. They function to provide non jobs and backhanders to Quangos, Directorships, etc

But at some stage during their lifespan, the ability to fleece the customer diminishes, and the project is allowed to wilt, allowing the chance for a new initiative!

IiP is being replaced, and so the cycle continues.

What a sad, but accurately, true statement that is. It is just a shame that the "customer" cant see it.

I remember very well the introduction of IIP all those years ago and I have to say I seem to remember that it was truly embraced by just about every commissioned officer I knew (junior aircrew excluded) and totally despised by just about every SNCO I knew (Just like every other “initiative” we had thrust upon us).

It is warming to see so many comments here, critical of an energy & effort draining, complete waste of money and tick in the box exercise such as IIP.

But just how many people here were really honestly and openly critical of it when it was first introduced? I’ll bet I could guess!!

Sadly, how much more time, energy, effort, MONEY!!!!, will be wasted on new initiatives in the future as “the cycle continues”. A lot more I feel, as those in charge try to make their mark, to show how important they are, in the “rebuilding of a broken Air Force”.

And will those new initiatives be criticised by anybody (other than grumpy old, negative SNCOs), I doubt it.

[4fitter]

I had the 'honour' to be responsible for the presentation of a rather large station to IiP. Staish, properly, was uber cynical, sqn cdrs, properly couldnt give a toss and majority of personnel were disinterested.
I promised to reduce effort to minimum and attempted to show how existing systems met standards. No new forms, processes or procedures. We passed, got the blue plaque and a picture in the RAF News.
Impact on station - recognition that existing practises were above civ standard, no more work for execs and 6 months of my life that could not be replaced.
Impact on IiP - recognition that we the MOD were keen for their benevolence and sanction.
Am I glad its binned - yes - and if you could see my Dii account you would recognise my 2*s astonishment at how happy I was.
Hope this contributes

[D O Guerrero]

I would describe senior officers that publicly don't give a toss about something they've been ordered to do, as pretty poor leaders.

[Melchett01]

I would describe senior officers that publicly don't give a toss about something they've been ordered to do, as pretty poor leaders.

Must be taking their lead from the VSOs and politicians then. And frankly, with the way the MOD treats is personnel of all shades and hues, then frankly it was never going to be anything other than a statement of style over substance. Very Noo Labour.

[valveclosed]

Keeping the thread on subjsct heee heee

Was quite funny during the miners strike me and 3 mates were driving up home from Halton every fri night and back on a sunday, we used to get stopped on the A1 Balby roundabout and checked out by S Yorks finest boys in blue who saw 4 blokes in a car and assumed we were "commuting pickets"
Ref the comments about maggie being so bad, what ever happened to Mr Scargill?? if i recall correctly he did ok for himself

British industry ruined british industry, how many folk have been stuck with a Fri afternoon "british built" car!!

As for IIP made a massive difference at my unit!!! we had a nice plate with IIP on it mounted on the wall, made all the difference, provided good employment for the works services bloke who came and put the plate up and took it down so good job done

[Wander00]

Given the way some matters have been handled lately, do the RAF or MoD deserve IIP status!

[SRENNAPS]

Given the way some matters have been handled lately, do the RAF or MoD deserve IIP status!

A very close friend of my daughter, who serves in the RAF has just been involved in an extremely bad car accident. Every stop has been pulled out to ensure that her family and partner have been able to support her.

In Civvie street you get the support of your friends, but you don’t get the support from your company to pay for your friends and family to travel across the country (world) to see them.

Yes I believe the RAF and MoD still deserve some form of recognition in the way it supports its people. We always had (and I would like to think still have) IIP status. We just don’t need some poxy initiative and a plaque on the wall to prove it!!

[tucumseh]

SRENNAPS


Just to clarify, when you say "MoD", that does not apply to civvies.

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Quote:
IiP binned? My arse.

These things have a shelf life. They function to provide non jobs and backhanders to Quangos, Directorships, etc

But at some stage during their lifespan, the ability to fleece the customer diminishes, and the project is allowed to wilt, allowing the chance for a new initiative!

IiP is being replaced, and so the cycle continues.


What a sad, but accurately, true statement that is. It is just a shame that the "customer" cant see it.

I remember very well the introduction of IIP all those years ago and I have to say I seem to remember that it was truly embraced by just about every commissioned officer I knew (junior aircrew excluded) and totally despised by just about every SNCO I knew (Just like every other “initiative” we had thrust upon us).



Thankyou, SRENNAPS

You and I (inadvertantly) have also highlighted the downtrodden overworked cynical SNCO's attitude compared to the zelous promotion seeking h'officers yearly innitiatives that paper over the cracks, and keep us away from our primary duties.

It would be interesting to see the original statements supporting the application for IiP, set against this recent announcement that we can't afford it.

Not that interesting mind... I'm on my Terminal Leave.