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View Full Version : EK: When Watch Dogs Become Bloodhounds (BMI and the EK Medical)


ekairbus
15th Feb 2011, 08:55
I had my annual GCAA medical at the EK clinic last week and was shocked by the attitude of the new EK doctor conducting the medical.
I was warned my BMI of 28 was approaching an unacceptable level, EK's limit is 30 and the GCA limit is 35.
I asked what my BMI was for last year was and was told that it was also 28!

I exercise, I eat the right foods, I don't smoke but I also work long and exhausting hours crossing multiple time zones.

On the long hours issue the doctor stated that she sympathised as she had once worked long hours as an intern. Is that what we are now interns!

I was also offered a blood test and other extensive tests. I asked if the results would be shared with the company if they came back with any concerns. The answer was yes, I declined her offer.

A watchdog is a smart animal, a bloodhound runs around in a group until one of them picks up what they think is a scent and then the whole pack takes off barking chasing some pie in the sky number.

BMI= a Pie in The Sky number.

heloguy412
15th Feb 2011, 09:31
BMI is based on insurance company actuarial tables from the 50's. It is crap science and was dismissed by the Canadian military in the mid 90's. That it is still out there is unbelievable.:ugh:

TangoUniform
15th Feb 2011, 10:42
Guys, word of warning. Do not allow your BMI to pop up over 30. Even if it is crap science, the doctors will then become, as said in the first post, bloodhounds. They may send you for blood tests for thyroid, do sleep apnea testing, blood glucose testing, wearing heart halters for blood pressure, and whatever they may think is causing your BMI to be elevated. If you want several months off, go in, say your having trouble sleeping and have a BMI over 30. Let the testing begin. And if you have ever been under the microscope, believe me, things will be found.:ouch: This is getting like the Asian carriers. Oh, you will eventually be found "healthy" for a medical...but what fun the paperwork, going to this specialist, that facility, dealing with fleet, etc. If you can walk, talk, see the airplane from the crew bus, and hear a sonic boom, for the most part they will pass you so they don't have to pay the money. But prior to that...your life will be miserable. And of course, there is always the finding a ground job in flt. ops until you are passed. Just a word of warning from knowing several people fitting the above description. Keep that BMI below 30.

777boyindubai
15th Feb 2011, 12:21
Ekairbus, please be aware that the doctors are only implementing a GCAA ruling. I haven't come across many who believe in the science of BMI's. But, like us, they implement the poorly thought out "rules"

ekairbus
15th Feb 2011, 13:37
777boyin Dubai.... the GCAA standard is 35, the EK standard is 30. The Doctor I encountered is new, a replacement for the excellent Dr. K.

777boyindubai
15th Feb 2011, 17:10
Maybe the docs all sold out for the promise of a big payrise. I am sure EK management have access to all the records anyway :confused:

NG_Kaptain
15th Feb 2011, 17:39
Who does independent medicals in AUH? EY clinic sounds very much like EK's.
I prefer my medical history be confidential.

helen-damnation
15th Feb 2011, 21:09
Is that what we are now interns! Good grief, if you're this bad you'd better check your blood pressure.

If you fail your medical, your employer could reasonably ask for details in order to provide assistance to regain it. Granted, that's not exactly the same as the scenario you've posted.

Maybe the docs all sold out for the promise of a big payrise
The reason there aren't enough Doc's at the moment is due to the pay/package. There's no big payrise for them, same as us!

I prefer my medical history be confidential Couldn't agree more.

It just goes to show that nothing you hold to be important by any western standard is ever sacrosanct here. Every rule, regulation, credo or ethic is adjustable by those who run the place, as and when required to avoid cost. And that, folks, should be the first thing that anyone who joins any middle east airline reads :hmm: Here endeth the lesson :O

Bring Back The Biff
16th Feb 2011, 09:01
It seems to me as though those who complain the most about the BMI issue could do with losing some weight.

While the company benefits by having pilots who are less overweight (they represent about 67% of sickness statistics) - one would think that those pilots who are overweight would benefit from the increase in quality (and longevity) of life afforded by losing said excess weight....

Anyway, enough rational thought - let's get back to the whinging!

Kapitanleutnant
17th Feb 2011, 17:08
Colleague of mine went in for a medical several months ago and had a BMI of between 30-31 and he's still out! Doctor required him to do a sleep study which came back as just over the normal limit (light sleep apnea? forget what term he mentioned) and his doctor is apparently holding him out until he does another study and gets to the normal range (whatever that is)

The guy feels he's being held hostage by the doctor as he tells me he can't find any GCAA requirement saying he cannot fly with this light sleep apena problem.

So are the EK doctors being watched so closely these days they're being overly protective of the crew?

K

pool
19th Feb 2011, 06:52
Don't get fooled. This comes right out of the divide and conquer schoolbook. Doctors got a little too cosy with us pilots, for good reason, but against the management's interest. They now apply pressure on the meds pretexting GCAA requirements. The latter couldn't care less, BMI or fatigue, they simply sit,wait and got the order from the southern cousin not to interfere with EK ops, to make sure the profit continues -> it's their only insurance to get the security subsidy back.
Have you noticed the subtle connection of BMI with sleep/fatigue? EK wants to make up an underlying connection of fatigue to the overly fat pilots, as to escape of their own responsibility.
The doctors are taken as hostages, the pilots are made scapegoats for the inhumane rostering and to ensure operations and profits under these conditions.

If you are harassed by any silly BMI or fatigue issue, just do not go to the clinic or to specialists on your days off. Schedule that crap on a afternoon before any subcontinental torture flight and cancel it subsequently. If you are deemed a risk, take the opportunity for rest and have yourself deemed unfit for flight, insist on being either considered fit for duty with NO harassing test attached, or have yourself marked unfit/ sick and go for the tests.

That will then harm operations and bring the inquisitors back to reason. But don't take it out on the doctors, they are under similar stupid profit pressure.

Payscale
20th Feb 2011, 13:47
Eklawyer. Can you cut and paste that CAAP as most of us dont have access to them.
Thanks

Gulf News
20th Feb 2011, 16:36
All medical requirements are listed in the CARs which are available to view or download from the GCAA website.


Pdf Content (http://www.gcaa.gov.ae/en/epublication/pages/pdfcontent.aspx?d_=1094)

Pitch Up Authority
20th Feb 2011, 18:52
Just ask yourself one question. Why am I here, why am I working for EK?

Then ask yourself, why are foreign doctors working for EK. Why would you leave your own country when you have a job that pays well and customers are assured?

Doctors are individuals just like yourself, as humans they also have their doubts, ideals, a family, children, hobby’s. Professionally they too follow procedures, in the end it is a science based on evidence, nless you tamper with the evidence or ignore reality for reasons other than medical ones. The difference is that the human body is complicated and science has its limitations, doctors can never guarantee the outcome of their actions.

There is nothing special in being a doctor, the studies are not more difficult than an academic degree in engineering, physics or many other. If you have a good memory, if you like chemistry and can think logically with common sense then you can become a doctor if you are prepared to put in the time and effort.

The result is a respectful profession and a lot of money. But you get only people over the floor that complain and are in pain unless you decide not to treat patients and use your degree for something else.

As a doctor you will automatically enjoy the trust of your patients, simply because it is something that has grown historically. But just as with every other profession you have doctors that are crooks, narcissistic, womanizers, ego trippers etc .... you also have the normal ones. This is something that is often overlooked; it is not because you are intelligent that you may not be a bad person. You have crooks in the world finance, CEO, politicians etc.... actually if you look at history you see doctors involved in war crimes and leading terrorist organizations.

With the general public, doctors somehow escape the perception of this possibility. If you think about a doctor you think about someone who helps you when you are sick. Since the reality of this world is money driven one can say that doctors make money on the back of those that have to go and see them because they are in pain.

Their studies can be summarised in three steps. First the study of the components of the body (anatomy), second the study of the body when thing work normal (physiology) and step tree study of the body when things go wrong (pathology).

The problem is that they too need to be checked out, not on an aircraft but on the human body of their clients. Just like first officers need to get the experience and exposure before they are ready to take on a position with more responsibility, doctors need to get trough a similar phase. As a result it takes about 7 to 8 years before they are checked out on human beings like you and me.

Doctors are just like you and me, they need food, a roof above their heads, and clothes, in short a job that brings in the money.

Doctors too fall in love, raise a family etc…. Male doctors are not different that male pilots, they too turn their head when they see a beautiful woman, they too get horny, they too like good food and a beer or glass of wine.

You have doctors that start their own practice, some help sportsman with their injuries, some help athletes to dope themselves, some work as advisors for insurance companies in their battle against patients that take their doctor to court because of malpractice, some doctors just go for the money and specialize in silicone boops …. etc

And then there are the AME.

Why would you want to become an AME? Why would you want to become an EK AME?
Taking medical examinations from, statistically speaking individuals that are very healthy.

Most of their arguments are the same as those of most pilots. Work for a solid company, tax free salary etc …. Their primary concern is not your health, it is their job, their house, food, provide for their family etc…. the stuff we al do.

In the UAE they have to do what they are being told by EK. Forget about medical confidentiality or ethics, these do not exist.

When doctors make a mistake and are being challenged about it, they turn into the worst creatures on the surface of this earth. They lie, manipulate, protect each other and become very arrogant.

In the UAE and working for EK that means that EK is liable for their actions. In summary this means that you stand no chance in case something goes wrong.

Moreover, the money EK spends on medical issues, is strictly controlled by the company chief medical officer, who functions as a bean counter and not as a doctor who is there to help you. Everything is money driven.

EK doctors will protect themselves and only themselves.
So never say anything confidential to your EK doctor, go to a doctor in your own country.

And last but not least, there are several cases in EK where EK used their doctors to make falsified medical reports to get rid of a pilot. You can only imagine what a battle you are facing to rectify these practises, not only in the UAE, but everywhere else you may want to work after leaving EK.

In the end, any doctor that wants to stick strictly to the deontology of his profession will soon rather than late run away from this place. Those that stay are part of the system.

In the end they are very lonely people, it is almost impossible for them to share confidential or sensitive information with others except their colleagues and even this is risky. This is a problem.

CRM in the true sense of the word does NOT exist in the medical world. They behave like the captain that knows it all; they do not tolerate any critics and will destroy anyone that may be a treat to their reputation.

They are human as everyone else and so they do make mistakes. However, they refuse to recognise this or even learn from their mistakes since they will never admit to one. As such they put themselves above every other human.

In short they may be dangerous and there is nothing you can do about it. Not even a second opinion.

They are the opposite of the natural commander; who is open to critics, shares information and accepts that he too can make mistakes and therefore creates an environment of true confidence in each other.

Any case, were the reputation and integrity of the EK medical may rightfully be questioned will be crushed like a cockroach.

helen-damnation
20th Feb 2011, 19:24
Interesting rant, quite possibly libelous/slanderous too (whichever applies, I are a pilot).
In the UAE they have to do what they are being told. Forget about medical confidentiality or ethics.
Unlike all the ethics of pilots flying over the 100/900 hour limits.

In the UAE and working for EK that means that EK is liable fort heir actions. In summary this means that you stand no chance.
Hellooo. Did someone say Manchester/Melbourne/Accra/Johanesburg etc. Catch up Bud!

Those that stay are part of the system.
As are the rest of us, including YOU.

You're entitled to your opinion but I, for one, don't agree with the majority of it. Try re-reading ekLawyers posts and the CAAP.

777boyindubai
21st Feb 2011, 03:10
Pitch Up......what a long, rambling and incoherent rant. Can't possibly understand why the EK doc wrote what he or she did about you! Your post is full of lies and slander. You are the ideal candidate for a management job in Flight-ops. Give them a call......:confused::ugh:

White Knight
21st Feb 2011, 03:36
I gotta 2nd, 3rd and 4th the above comments by PUA - what a load of drivel:ugh::ugh: I've found the EK doctor's to be generally first rate with our interests at heart.
An AME will try all they can to keep you with a medical.

Pitch Up Authority
21st Feb 2011, 15:50
White Knight,

You are right, an EK AME will do everything he can to help you and that is what some of them did. Unless he gets the instruction from his boss the CMO to take a step back. If they refuse, they get fired the same way you would get fired if you compromise the GMFO.

Why ? Because the CMO could not loose face and so he did the most disgusting thing a doctor can do. To build a falsified case, to forbid any EK AME to get involved, so nobody would ever find out.

Lies always catch up on you.

And so as soon the EK top realized what had happened, the EK CMO and the AME got fired. The AME refused to listen to the orders of his boss and came with proof that his boss was wrong and so he got fired.

It's a realty that the EK top refuses to address; they too are ashamed of what some of their managers are capable of.

So the question to be asked today is; has anything changed?

Today, half of the Arabic world is on fire. Why do you think this is happening?

Wizofoz
21st Feb 2011, 16:00
Çause they're finally doing what the USA did in 1776?

Dale Hardale
22nd Feb 2011, 20:00
In 2005 I went for my medical at the clinic and the doctor said there was a "problem" with my ECG.

He sent me to a cardiologist for further investigation. I underwent exhaustive testing only to be told there was nothing wrong. It was then I asked the cardiologist if he personally knew the referring EK doctor.

I was gobsmacked when the cardiologist said the EK doctor "always" refers EK people to him for heart checks and that it provided a significant part of his business. It also transpired that they had known each other for many years.

When I returned to my home town, I took all the traces etc etc to a cardiologist who said there was absolutely nothing wrong with the first ECG done at the EK clinic and that the tests done by the cardiologist in Dubai were not even relevant to the "problem" the EK doctor said I had in the first place.

The EK doctor has since left Dubai. Ever since then, I have been really careful about medicals in Dubai and always get an outside (UAE) opinion.

Kapitanleutnant
23rd Feb 2011, 04:38
Is a second opinion even allowed apart from the EK clinic AME doctor.... or even within the clinic if you don't agree with his/her assessment?

K

harry the cod
23rd Feb 2011, 12:53
Dale

That wouldn't be the infamous TS by any chance? The same doc who loved to check your aarrrrrrhhssss :ooh:.............

Harry

Dale Hardale
23rd Feb 2011, 19:27
Harry's got it in one.

Pitch Up Authority
28th Feb 2011, 05:31
So White Knight, where are your arguments now?

Running away from the truth are you?

White Knight
28th Feb 2011, 12:06
White Knight

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So White Knight, where are your arguments now?

Running away from the truth are you?

Oh this is an argument is it? I thought it was a casual discussion:}

Well, after your 3 PMs to me of nonsense I rather lost interest in this thread:ugh:

In my own experience - ie myself, my family and my friends at EK we have had only the best medical care. In fact, far better than BUPA back in the UK! Regarding issues with the MEDICAL itself; well, I've only found the EK docs to be most helpful!

TS was the only real problem child but he's long gone happily!

As for 'running away from the truth' - well old chap, I've been well away from the internet for quite some hours, so haven't seen your 'truth' to run from:hmm::hmm: