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View Full Version : 15,000 $US a month or Emirates?


dubai.dreamin
9th Feb 2011, 05:21
Here is a hypothetical for you all.

I am now working in China earning 15,000 a month after tax. The job is ok and we get fairly well looked after. Job security and lack of holidays are the main problems, also no schooling, housing and no communication or involvement by the company. Crappy hotels and rostering also are a problem. Just do as they say and if you don’t like it your shown the door.

I am considering applying to Emirates as an First Officer.

I have read all the negative comments about the company, but maybe some of you should try working in China. :ouch: You guys work hard but actually have quite good terms and conditions. Yes they have eroded over the years, but so have all airlines.

Money is not a consideration for me. And I can live on an First Officer salary.
Flying as a First Officer for 5 years is not a problem.
Heat and desert living is not a problem.
Culture is not a problem.

I am looking at something long term. (10-15 years)

Any ppruners with a positive view on Emirates got any comments?:ok: What should I do?
Thanks guys. Lets not turn this one into another biyarch fest.
Also...quick question. On the 777 fleet in a typical month do you get a block of days off? Say 4 or 5 or more?

Fack5
9th Feb 2011, 06:50
Sounds like you've already made up your mind! Not much left to say, really.

Enjoy.

dubai.dreamin
9th Feb 2011, 07:48
Thats the problem. I can not make up my mind. Here aint so bad. But long term it seems good there.

Do you get enough time off a month in a block of 4 or 5 + days? So one can jump on a flight to Vienna or some place to get normal again before starting work. Or is it like here which is only 2 or 3 days off consecutive?

Thanks in advance

littlejet
9th Feb 2011, 07:57
what's with commuting contracts on the market?
Doesn't that suits you?
Can you get past the credo "once a captain always a captain"?

fatbus
9th Feb 2011, 08:04
DD , I take it you are living in china as well. because if you are making 15K tax free and living where you want, WTF over , what kind of time off do you get and why would you want to move yourself and family here? Some guys are getting large blocks of days off ( top bid months), Don't even consider commuting

Wizofoz
9th Feb 2011, 08:39
dd,

Obviously comes down to individual circumstances.

EK works best for those who have a family and want to live with them. The value of housing+ education allowence+ cheap medical/dental for the family greatly adds to the value of the package, which is only so-so if you are a singleton.

As had been said, it is NOT commutable-if you ever want to see your family, bring them with you- but decent blocks off to do some near-term traveling are achievable.

One word of warning, 5 years to command is not a given. There may be some road-blocks to growth coming up, so you would have to be prepared in case it is a longer spell in the RHS than that.

There are worse places to be if you come prepared and with the right attitude.

dubai.dreamin
9th Feb 2011, 08:45
China has some commuting contracts, but I aint on one. Commuting with a future family is not really ideal. Kids in School etc. Good for a single guy though.

If I moved to Duabi I know its not commuting, just wondered if one can get away from the desert once a month or so for 5 +days.

Can you get past the credo "once a captain always a captain"? yes I have been quites senior in the various jobs over the years, and have no problems going to the bottom of the food chain.

Some guys are getting large blocks of days off ( top bid months) So once every 3 months you can expect to get a block of days off if you bid for it? What about non bid months? what would be a typical block of days off in a non bid month?:)

dubai.dreamin
9th Feb 2011, 08:48
Wizofoz

Very usefull info.Thanks for the post.

An I am aware that it could be the end of LHS for me for the next 10 years, which might mean my remaining career. But I do not mind. Been there done that got all the boxes ticked. :ok:

Laker
9th Feb 2011, 08:50
Expect to take home about 8k/USD month at EK after basic expenses (housing, transport, schooling, medical). Food, entertainment, the price of goods are reasonable in Dubai, definitely not cheap. You didn't stipulate how much money you have left after expenses in China. Assuming they are not huge I am surprised you want to move to the Middle East to take a huge paycut and a downgrade. Usually people come here for an increase in terms to offset the challenges of living in the ME. However if you love Dubai, EK would probably be a great move for you. If you make a nuisance of yourself mgt will show you the door here as well. There isn't anything in the way of job protection, unions, etc.

Hotels are generally quite nice. Crew are a pleasure to fly with. Rosters are difficult. Expect 12 days off per month. You could probably get 5 days off in a row most months on the 777. Good mix of layovers. You won't be guaranteed a 5 year upgrade. That's difficult to predict at present. 10-15 years downline who knows what will happen with the airline. A lot will depend on landing slots, debt payments, etc. EK managers are quite sharp so I expect the airline to continue to succeed.

China is predicting the greatest pilot shortage going forward. I would bet that region will also be seeing the largest future pay increases. You will be leaving a lot of money on the table but I guess you can't put a price on happiness. Just make sure you know what you are signing up for. Good luck.

dubai.dreamin
9th Feb 2011, 09:16
You didn't stipulate how much money you have left after expenses in China. quite alot almost 10 grand.

I am surprised you want to move to the Middle East to take a huge paycut and a downgrade. It is about long term lifestyle. China has NO lifestyle, and polution is terrible and shortening my lifespan (no joke it is that bad) Paycut is an issue, but im looking at the overall package. for example pension fund is non existant here. Emirates puts away 15%

However if you love Dubai, EK would probably be a great move for you. There is not lifestyle at all in China.

There isn't anything in the way of job protection, unions, etc. I would say China is worse. They regularly take from the contracted conditions and there is no legal options to fight it and win.

Hotels are generally quite nice. Chinese hotels are the worst.

You could probably get 5 days off in a row most months on the 777.Thats what I want. I am currently confined to this place and can not escape even for a short while.

China is predicting the greatest pilot shortage going forward. I would bet that region will also be seeing the largest future pay increases. Your right, there are commuting contracts now paying 16-17,000 a month, but you got nil job security and no quality of life.

fly744
9th Feb 2011, 09:30
What an EK Capt (in usd) takes homes per month,guys?

MosEisley
9th Feb 2011, 09:43
I work as much as most FOs do and average 25-26K take home after deductions. Do the math and that's $6800 per month not $8000 as someone else stated. Then start subtracting basic living expenses from that: car, fuel, groceries, mobile, internet, etc.

Wizofoz
9th Feb 2011, 09:43
Base- 'bout 10K.

Flight pay- 'Bout another 2.

Bonus? 0-14 weeks in recent history.

Money in leu of housing- 4K (but you'll need to find somewhere to live)

HOPEFULLY some restoration to a sane overtime threshold- could stay where it is (effectivley 0)- a return to previous (78hrs) would mean anything up to 4 grand extra, but breath is not being held!!!!

watertheflowers
9th Feb 2011, 10:11
Base- 'bout 10K.

First year is $8,200/month minus Provident Fund contribution and Medical insurance.

Flight pay- 'Bout another 2.

I haven't made more than $1,600/month in the last 3 years.

Bonus? 0-14 weeks in recent history.

Persuade yourself to expect closer to 0 than 14 for the future.


Money in leu of housing- 4K (but you'll need to find somewhere to live)

Can't argue with that.

HOPEFULLY some restoration to a sane overtime threshold- could stay where it is (effectivley 0)- a return to previous (78hrs) would mean anything up to 4 grand extra, but breath is not being held!!!!

Just misleading and mischievous. It should not be mentioned.

Praise Jebus
9th Feb 2011, 10:38
DD it sound like all your main draw card would be to get blocks of days off each month. The 777 appears to be able to achieve that in approx 2 out of 5 months with a block of 5 days. But what if you get on the Airbus? No way can you do it. Keep in mind that there was a time when you could get up to 12 days off over consecutive months, then of course the rules changed and like Chine, no recourse.

So come on over, we need more pilots, but you will need a few things to go your way (luck) and then there is no way of predicting if in a years time after joining, you will still be able to get that block of days off, then what?

Wizofoz
9th Feb 2011, 10:43
First year is $8,200/month minus Provident Fund contribution and Medical insurance.



Yep, fair enough- he didn't specify 1st year, but that's useful info. Increments have been shown to no longer be guaranteed.

I haven't made more than $1,600/month in the last 3 years.



Well, true. The MOST you can make is $1550- as after that you're making productivity, not flight pay- but is that 'bout 1k or 'bout 2k?

Persuade yourself to expect closer to 0 than 14 for the future.



Persuade yourself however you like, (though some justification of that position would be nice) just stating a fact.

Just misleading and mischievous. It should not be mentioned.

How so? Speculative I'll give you but who are you to tell me what to mention and what not to mention? A change (for the better) has been requested of upper management by flight ops- I have no idea if it will come off, just saying it might. The guy isn't entitled to know this?

Some context - (something WTF insists on for everyone but himself.) I joined EK as a DEC and do not bitch as long or hard as most others. According to WTF I'm therefore not allowed to comment without harassment.

So, one more thing if you come, be prepared to put up with a lot of VERY loud whining!!

watertheflowers
9th Feb 2011, 12:08
Here's the thing Wizofoz.

Reading your post one would get the idea that any EK Captain would take home about $12,000/month, might get up to 14 weeks bonus this year and next and might in the future be getting another $4,000/month in productivity payments!

Reading my post the same guy would understand that a 1st year EK Captain would be paid $9,800 minus some deductions in any month with a normal 90 hour flying program and he might get an annual bonus, but it will not be close to the 14 weeks which was paid just one time only and before the global financial meltdown of the last 3 years. That's it.

You are not helping people who are considering applying to EK by posting false and optimistic salary data.

wtf

jackx123
9th Feb 2011, 12:16
go work for a hedge fund in NY. average payout last couple of years 5-15 million a year. who cares about taxes and internet expenses...........

Wizofoz
9th Feb 2011, 12:23
No, WTF,

YOU reading my post through your "Do anything to discredit Wizofoz" filter would get that impression.

Anyone reading it with a modicum of neutrality would read-

- Captains at EK earn around 10k on average (true)- 1st year figures available on the web site-that the least bonus we've received is 0 and the most is 14 weeks (true),no idea about future trands, and that it is a possibility (but don't get your hopes up) that Productivity will be adjusted.

YOU don't help anyone wanting to join EK as the only time you can be ar$$ed to post is to take a swing at me- this being a seemingly pathological obsession.

ruserious
9th Feb 2011, 17:14
I like my JOB here, but the reality is any decision you make has to based on the reality that the company gets a little nastier, cheaper and malicious every year, so 2011 is the top of the hill, it only slopes downwards from there.

atpcliff
9th Feb 2011, 18:03
Hi!

China is getting more and more desperate for pilots. I would seriously consider switching companies in China before going to EK. I would think another company in China would be THRILLED to have you, if your current company is crap.

cliff
KGRB

nolimitholdem
9th Feb 2011, 20:23
Can't understand why anyone would want to discredit you Wiz, your views on EK are so impartial and balanced. Maybe you should send WTF a threatening pm.

Aren't you needed back at the office?

(Best new term from another post, gonna use it, "Oztranauts") They will Save Us All, these brave gents who invented aviation....

Back on topic, my advice to the OP is simply...you're jumping from the old frying pan into the fire if you think you'll have any more certainty about wtf is going on at EK versus a Chinese carrier. I would reiterate Laker's comments about China, you'll have more leverage there than just about anywhere else in the near term...

Rotorhead1026
10th Feb 2011, 00:19
China is getting more and more desperate for pilots. I would seriously consider switching companies in China before going to EK.

Your logic is good, but switching companies in China is extremely problematic. Legal issues, financial issues, and face-saving / losing are all in the mix.

That said, things in China look a lot better long term than Dubai. I'd make it work over there if I possibly could.

CAVEAT : I've never worked for a Chinese or ME company, but I've worked overseas for years and have traveled to both places many times.

dubai.dreamin
10th Feb 2011, 06:53
about China, you'll have more leverage there than just about anywhere else in the near term You would think we would have leverage, but no matter how desperate, how short of pilots they are, they dont give a rats ass about us. Even the slightest showing of strength to stand up to the bullying results in being shown the door. They are stupid. They do not realize they can solve the pilot shortage problems by managing things differently.

I think we all have a case of "grass is greener"
But consider this. Every day, engineers cutting corners, some places we fly is all Chinese language. The first officer does the radios and then passes on the ATC clearance. What was that game again? "Chinese whispers" where the information get less accurate each time. Also consider that any Hard landing (even by F/O and they cant fly) results in being fined $1000 usd from the CAPTAIN's pay cheque. Then going back on a training salary while you are retrained how to take over from the First officer. 20 days annual leave. No real benifits. 20 hour duty periods. Pollution. People spitting on the floor in the restaurant next to you. Pushing shoving, no manners. China can have it all. 15,000 a month aint enough. :yuk:

etops777
10th Feb 2011, 07:37
dubai.dreamin

totally agreed with you.

VLS with ice
10th Feb 2011, 11:16
DD,

Seems like you've already made up your mind.
EK does have it's good points, no argument there, but it does have it bad sides too. It's very subjective. I've been at EK since 2003 and I have seen many changes, very few for the better. Having said that, I still like my job and my family is happy. In general, the people I work with on a daily basis are a great bunch.

As far as the company goes, I was proud when I joined. Now, I consider myself just a mercenary. The company might be doing great, but I have no respect for it anymore thanks to the management and the way they treat their own people.
A bit sad maybe, but I can live with it. Remember the grass is always greener....

What about contract jobs in China with basing? I know some EK skippers are looking at Air China with a base in Europe. Do you have some info on that?

Regards,

VLS

FUSE PLUG
11th Feb 2011, 03:08
Am I the only one who thinks this guy is fake?

Reread all of his posts. EK is GREAT, there have been cuts world wide, we are lucky to be here, I've read the complaints about Emirates but you should try working over here:ugh:, China (one of EK's major competitors in terms of attracting pilots in the future) is garbage, EK is the best...

I'm guessing this probationary user is just some propaganda spitting, Costa sipping, Brooks Brothers wearing, yes man from HQ. Tasked with getting on this forum and trying to put a positive spin on life in Dubai for the sake of future recruitment.

Am I off the mark? Did we take the bait? :confused:

-FP

CAVnotOK
11th Feb 2011, 03:17
Totally agree Fuse.

Cav.

Macrohard
11th Feb 2011, 05:11
Looks like a well place lure has caught out those with their wading pants down ...

I also think this guy has to be fake. But, I'll jump in anyway.

DD, one question. What type are you currently on? This could have some bearing, regarding time to upgrade.

dubai.dreamin
11th Feb 2011, 11:16
Thanks for all the information and I can assure you im not fake.

Based on the information I have read here and talking to people in the know, I have decided to stay put in my job here and keep an eye our for better contracts.

It was a tough decision, but as the say. Better the devil you know than the one you dont know. :ok: