Ryanair-Pilot kicked 120 pax out of the aircraft at ACE, 05FEB11

[Airbus_a321]

found in several newspapers and magazines today. e.g.

Lanzarote: Ryanair-Pilot wirft 120 Passagiere aus dem*Flugzeug - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten - Reise (http://www.spiegel.de/reise/aktuell/0,1518,743811,00.html)

Flugverkehr - Nach Streit: Ryanair wirft 120 Passagiere aus Flugzeug - Aus aller Welt - Hamburger Abendblatt (http://www.abendblatt.de/vermischtes/article1778902/Nach-Streit-Ryanair-wirft-120-Passagiere-aus-Flugzeug.html)

anyone knows details on this. :ugh:

.....in the report they write that the Foreign Ministry of Belgium interferred and had to put pressure on RYR to return the "stranded" pax.

[Sunnyjohn]

This is from Daily news and information in English for Spain (http://www.thereader.es) - an English online newspaper about Spain for expats:

After a passenger pushed a flight attendant this morning, a massive fight broke out inside a Ryanair plane due to leave Guacimeta Airport in Lanzarote this mroning, as reported to Europa Press Corps the National Police (CNP), who were forced to intervene on board the low cost carrier.

The incident occurred shortly before 10.30 am, when a Ryanair plane was preparing to fly to Charleroi (Brussels), A passenger was was asked to leave the plane after pushing over a crew member. When he refused to disembark, his friends intervened and faced off against other staff members. Some other passengers got involved on behalf of the crew members, starting a fight onboard the aircraft.

Consequently, the Captain requested the intervention of the Security Forces of the State, which ended the incident by arresting twenty passengers. The plane later took for Brussels with the rest of the passagengers.

According to sources, the passengers were evacuated from the aircraft by members of the Guardia Civil and National Police and are still in the airport terminal Guacimeta, where they are protesting their innocence in the events. Police confirmed that they are likely to face charges of assault.
The nationalities of the detainees has yet to be established.

[ericlday]

From Ryanairs website-

100 Passengers Offloaded from Lanzarote - Charleroi flight

Ryanair today (5th Feb) confirmed that it had offloaded a group of 100 passengers travelling from Lanzarote to Brussels Charleroi on FR8175 at the request of Spanish Police. This group became disruptive, and refused to comply with crew instructions after a number of their group were required to pay a gate bag fee for outsized luggage.

Lanzarote police required the entire aircraft be offloaded, each passenger identified. Following further disruptive behaviour, the police required for security reasons that this enitre group be refused travel.

Ryanair apologises sincerely to the 66 remaining passengers who suffered a 3hr delay while Ryanair and the local police were dealing with this disruptive group. Ryanair's handling agent in Lanzarote will be reaccommodating some of this group on later flights to Charleroi but any individuals who engaged in disruptive behaviour or refused to follow crew instructions will not be allowed to fly.

The safety and security of Ryanair's passengers, crew and aircraft will remain Ryanair's number 1 priority.

[clunckdriver]

Lock them up for a LONG time in a choice Spanish jail {goal if you must} and then put them on a LIFETIME No Fly list! Good for the captain, and good for Ryan Air, its time to put an end to this crap!

[glad rag]

Absolutely :D

[gunbus]

Better still load them onto cattle trucks and drive them slowly to brussles,if they behave like wild animals treat them so

[Carmoisine]

I don't know what the specifics of this case are.

I don't care about the Ryanair culture at this point or how the treatment of their passengers might have induced this behavior. Before the usual hysterics start as it always does when FR is mentioned, just spare a thought for the Cabin Crew.

They are the ones left to deal with a situation that no one should ever have to face. It's in these situations that they get crapped on from above. Young girls, maybe as young as 19 years of age dealing with packs of larger louts behaving like wild animals and a situation that developed into something similar to a spaghetti western or a bar brawl. Can you imagine how frightened they must have been?

[xyzzy]

Although one can't help thinking that some rough justice may mean that passengers who attempted to protect said 19 year old cabin crew may get treated the same as the people who started the fight. Which would not be a good outcome.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Full marks to the Captain.... but I rather suspect that he did not "kick" them off the aircraft, unfortunately.

[hetfield]

As a passenger I would say, you get what you pay for.....

[KENNEDY TOWER]

Not surprised, more and more passengers turn up at the airport half in the bag from the night before and indeed can be very beligerant and rude. They think because it is a low cost carrier that they can get away with anything, they are paying a very low premium to fly anyway then they think they can push the cabin crew around. Interfeering with flight crew is a very serious offence so well done to the Capt. and the Spanish Police.

There is no room for this type of loutish behaviour on ANY airline. I hope when the culprits are identified that they get punished for their actions as it will send out a message to prospective troublemakers.:D

[Smudger]

I do not condone violence or bad behaviour like this by passengers but having been fleeced by Ryanair at check-in in the past I understand their anger and frustration about being relieved of their cash to pay for some jumped-up extra charge. After my experience I have vowed never to fly with Ryanair again. Their modus operandi with regard to pricing is little short of scandalous and has put me off going anywhere near them again. I repeat, I do not condone what these people did but I fully understand it.

[His dudeness]

but I fully understand it

So threatening and pushing over underpaid and overworked Ryan Air cabin crew, steaming off at these guys and gals is 'understandable' then? As if they are the responsible ones?

As you did, smudger, they should vote with their feet. If paxnumbers are down Ryan needs to rethink its policies. As long as they fly Ryan, nothing will change.

I can´t understand these people.

You pay next to nothing and therefore you get next to nothing, at least you get no service whatsoever and they rip you off where they can. That is not a secret, but widely known, even to the public IMO. They (Ryan) set the rules on their A/C. Pay a tad more and you get way better service and usually more 'leeway' towards slightly oversized baggage etc. No rocketscience....

If one does not understand that, he shouldn´t be on an airplane anyhow.

[Say again s l o w l y]

There's no way to justify or excuse this sort of behaviour.

Whether the whole situation could have been avoided is a completely different matter. It wasn't and so booting these idiots off the aircraft was the right decision obviously.

[DiCampo]

Other passenger's point of view in a Belgian newspaper, courtesy Google translate:

'Felt held hostage by students'

"We were not threatened, but held hostage" says a passenger who was here yesterday on the Ryanair plane in Lanzarote where students from the ULB ran amok.
The students were not drunk, according to the traveler in a response to our editors, or noisy. And not particularly well co-operate.
"What exactly happened when checking we do not know, but apparently was not a boy from the group of Ryanair check-in. The rest is then started to run amok on the plane. They wanted their friend necessarily get on board. "
This launched what chaos on board. The passengers are not felt threatened, "but held hostage". '
"The students refused to sit down when they asked that. Even when the pilot moegeterd said they had to get out, they listened not. "
Police had to intervene. '
Every time a police car appeared, the students began to cheer. They assumed that it was their friend who was still on board. "
Ended up the other passengers leave the plane because the students refused to sell. "That way they separated us, we were glad to," it sounds.
After half an hour everyone was allowed back into the baggage on board the now empty equipment."Upon returning to the aircraft was all our luggage on a cart. We had our cases indicate, so that those students could be separated. "
Three hours later, the device still set course Charleroi.


original link De Standaard Online - 'Voelden ons gegijzeld door studenten' (http://www.standaard.be/artikel/detail.aspx?artikelid=DMF20110206_037)

[DiCampo]

And the original mention of the incident in the same paper, also thanks to google translate.

Ryanair evicts Belgian students from aircraft

Belgian hundred students, especially the French-speaking University of Brussels (ULB), are stranded at the airport in the Canary island of Lanzarote. One of them refused to pay additional fee for luggage, which Ryanair than other students but all of the flight bande. According to local media, the students were drunk.
The students took advantage of a free week to use some of the sunshine on the Spanish island of Lanzarote. But their trip ended Saturday morning in a minor key. According to Aurelia, one of the students, came after boarding the plane a discussion between a student and a flight attendant low cost airline Ryanair. 'Instead of the professional situation to go, the air hostess began to call themselves and to hurl accusations around, "says the student at the French-speaking radio stations. According to her behaving the rest of the Belgian group is not brutal. "But we were all put off the plane."

Local media speak 'good behavior' of the Belgians against. According to the website La Voz de Lanzarote was a large proportion of those aged between 20 and 25 years under the influence of alcohol.

The plane eventually left without the students to Charleroi. Another flight back home is far from obvious, says the student. '
"Our vacation is over. Our money is gone. "

At the ULB have no knowledge of the incident. '
"I suppose that this group took a vacation after the exams. There were no students already part of their training in Lanzarote, "said Valerie Bomb Aerts.

Ryanair confirms the incident. We have a group of passengers on the plane removed at the request of the Spanish police. They bewailed her after some of them had to pay a surcharge for overweight luggage, "it sounds. According to Ryanair, all passengers on the aircraft and subjected to an identity check. '
"Because some passengers were disruptive behavior, the police decided that the entire group to which the disturbing elements was not allowed to travel further."

Ryanair apologizes to the 66 passengers who could leave for the delay. "We ensure that a portion of the group that remained on Lanzarote in Charleroi hit. But the makers amok, we will not allow any of our aircraft. "

In foreign affairs it sounds different. "The Belgian consul in Tenerife is intervened. One problem with such a large group can not be unaddressed, "said spokesman Bart Ouvry. "Therefore, the students fly the next day in small groups of five or six back to our country."


Original link De Standaard Online - Ryanair zet Belgische studenten uit vliegtuig (http://www.standaard.be/artikel/detail.aspx?artikelid=DMF20110205_076)

I hope the translation makes some sense.

No mention in either article of any physicalities, just shouting and loutish behaviour... Still a very bad thing, but less so than shoving the cc around.

[grounded27]

Sure their behavior was unacceptable but I am not surprised. We refer to these aircraft as "cattlecars", there is little human dignity given to the common pax. You stand inline to get shuffled into a metal tube, stuck sitting in a smaller bt the day seat next to strangers shoulder to shoulder. Have to suffer the repetative BS from cabin crew. Are restricted from when you can and can not use the bathroom! Now this is at the aircraft, not to mention security and all the crap you went through within the few hrs prior.

Not excusing behavior, I was not there. I just detest flying commercially. Give me a 9 hour flight on a dingy freighter any day. I eat, crap and sleep when I want. Hell I prefer it to a pimped out exec jet.

[fokker1000]

Like the airline or not, if you can't be a human being on board, don't buy a ticket and walk home.
I wish all European authorities would be VERY ROBUST in dealing with these little darlings...

Maybe a month in a cell and no stupid EU rights to make sure they get better room service than thier 1* holiday they booked!

[SadPole]

One of them refused to pay additional fee for luggage

All of that mess over several euros for luggage?

Kind of reminds me of a certain idiot Polish politician who having paid for an economy seat tried to start a riot on Lufthansa plane because they would not let him put his coat in first class. Yes, its true. And it shows how ignorant the public is of both laws on books and potential for massive harm in these kinds of situations.

Like others, I detest being a passanger on a commercial airline, but people have to understand there is no way to avoid the cattle wagon experience unless people are willing to pay several times more for tickets – and they aren’t. There have to be stiff penalties for things like that because any disorder with that many people cramped into small space is disaster waiting to happen. Crowd stampeding/suffocating each other to death in panic is not exactly an unheard of issue.

[A2QFI]

This would have been much better dealt with at check-in, in the terminal, where there is an available and visible police/security presence, IMO.

Passengers who won't pay extortionate, but legal and well publicised charges, can pay up or not fly. People who turn up drunk and act agressive should be denied boarding as well. Once they are on the aircraft the problem is very difficult to manage, as this incident shows.

I rarely fly FR but when I do I know what the rules are and what I am going to get for my money.

[Mikehotel152]

There can be no excuses. It takes quite a bit for the crew to decide to call the police for assistance. Nobody wants to be delayed or have to write reports! If the police were called and agreed with the Captain that passengers should be removed from the aircraft, I'm 100% behind them whether it's a Ryanair, BA or Aeroflot flight.

Smudger - With all due respect, if you were 'fleeced' at check-in you didn't read the terms and conditions and can only blame yourself :rolleyes: (by the way, I've been there too...). The 'scandalous pricing' was probably far cheaper than was available from any other operator. The low fare means no frills, not poor service.

From both the flightdeck and when regularly deadheading in the cabin, I've never seen Ryanair cabin crew treating pax badly, though I have seen tired and unmotivated cabin crew not making an effort. Mind you, I could say the very same thing about the service I've experienced on BA, KLM, Kenya, SAA and Easyjet, both short and longhaul. Generally, because it's in their interests to charm the pax into spending their money on board, the cabin crew are friendly. Often not so on the full-fat airlines.

I have seen the occasional pax on Ryanair flights behaving unreasonably and rudely towards cabin crew due to events at the departure gate or checkin. They're often a little worse for wear. KENNEDY TOWER is spot on. Paying a low fare doesn't excuse you from acting with common decency. In reality, however, 99% of pax dismembarking Ryanair aircraft smile and thank the cabin crew as they leave.

His dudeness and grounded27 - :ok: Correct. You pay next to nothing, so you don't get the all-singing all dancing service of the 1980s. But neither do you get The Orient Express service on the 6:08 from London Liverpool Street to Norwich, which is probably 50 times more expensive per mile travelled. Opening cheap travel to the masses cannot be done without taking away the 'frills'. Seasoned travellers have figured out how to play the 'no frills' game, treat the experience as they do trains and buses, and get to their destination on time and at low cost.

[Hotel Tango]

Like others, I detest being a passanger on a commercial airline, but people have to understand there is no way to avoid the cattle wagon experience unless people are willing to pay several times more for tickets – and they aren’t.

You don't have to pay several times more. You'd be surprised what is possible if you do your homework and choose your airline carefully.

[Capetonian]

Like many, I detest Ryanair and despise its business ethics, or rather, lack of. Therefore I don't fly on them.

That the anger of these drunken students at the airline's policies should be directed at the cabin crew is utterly unacceptable and I hope they will spend a long and miserable time in a Spanish 'carcel'. The Guardia Civil are not known for being gentle!

This may be the first and last time I say it, but 'Good for Ryanair'.

[virginblue]

Apparently, but not unexpectedly, the whole story is blown out of proportion.

According to the Canary newspaper "La Provinicia", which I suggest to read rather than the cherry-picking British tabloids, some passengers refused to sit down, but there was no violence on board, no use of force by the police or any arrests. As I understand, one of the group could not board with the group because of an issue with his overweight luggage and the rest of the group then did not sit down to delay the departure, foolishly believing that it would allow their friend to make the flight. But from what this local source tells us, there was no "mutiny", "fighting" etc. on board.

The really interesting issue is if indeed 120 passengers were in breach of the contract with Ryanair by not follwing instructions or if the Captain simply decided to refuse the whole group to travel. If that was the case, i.e. people were left behind simply because they were part of a group booking despite not behaving badly, I see some serious hot water Ryanair has gotten into from a legal point view.

[west lakes]

Reading into the reports I think it is more a case of 20 being offloaded, but all luggage offloaded and the remaining passengers asked to identify their own luggage before reboarding

[Pugilistic Animus]

Stupid Muppety ground people, Good!!!:rolleyes:

[virginblue]

No, 66 travelled and 100 were offloaded according to Ryanair's own website (and various other sources). Whether this was at the request of the police - as Ryanair says - is not clear because the local press gives the whole story a somewhat different spin (no resistance, no arrests etc.)

The figure of 20 relates obviously to those who Ryanair refused to re-accommodate after the intervention of the Belgian authorities. Which makes the point even more interesting if it was a smart move by Ryanair to off-load the whole group rather than only those who caused the problem.

[virginblue]

Interesting. Nevertheless, all the press headlines are now "Ryanair off-loaded 100 passengers" rather than "Spanish police ordered 100 passengers off Rxanair plane".

If the old wisdom that there is no such thing as bad press still applies in such a case is doubtful. Ryanair will get another bashing by the press as by now there appears to be some sort of presumption that they are always screwing their passengers.

[Phil Space]

I'm 100% behind the crew and the airline. You fly low cost and get what you pay for. I would not want to be cabin crew on those cheap resort flights.

I'm sure most crew reading this have similar tales to tell about obnoxious people. You meet them everywhere in life.

As other have said if you don't want to fly lost costs spend a lot more money elsewhere.

[virginblue]

Well, the problem is that not 100 people were obnoxious, but still were refused to get what they had paid for.

[SummerLightning]

If people are travelling in a group, they have to expect to be treated as a group when this kind of situation arises. An aircraft is not the place to start shouting the odds about excess baggage charges or any other perceived injustice: basically you sit down, shut up and do what you're told.
Ryanair may not be the world's favourite airline, but I can't imagine any other carrier would have tolerated this situation or dealt with it any differently.
The BBC report suggests the captain was a woman, btw - not that it matters, but like others I made the usual assumption.

[Burpbot]

If they applied the carry on policy at check in rather than wait to the gate to fleece the pax then this event would never have happened!

I believe in life treat people how they treat you! Funny this is not the first involvement of the police sorting out arguments over petty crap on a ryan plane recently!

[sitigeltfel]

If they applied the carry on policy at check in rather than wait to the gate to fleece the pax then this event would never have happened!
If the pax had not tried to board with overweight/oversize bags, which appears to be what happened, the incident would not have occurred. There is no requirement to check in with carry on luggage.

[Sir H]

Ryanair business model seem to bring the worst out of their passengers, and I am afraid this is not the last time we will hear about incidents like this on board their aircraft. Unfortunately they are not paying their crews enough money considering they have to deal with air rage too.

[sTeamTraen]

The students were not drunk, according to the traveler in a response to our editors, or noisy. And not particularly well co-operate.
Ah, the joys of online translation. Apart from all the funny bits where people's names get translated or not, this bit contains a gem.

The original is:
Dronken waren de studenten niet, aldus de reiziger in een reactie aan onze redactie, luidruchtig wel. En niet bepaald medewerkzaam ook.

So the translation should say:
The students were not drunk, according to the traveler whom we interviewed, but they were noisy. And not particularly co-operative either.

[virginblue]

If people are travelling in a group, they have to expect to be treated as a group when this kind of situation arises.

Certainly not from a legal point of view as every person holds an individual booking that entitles her to transportation if complying with the T&C. So I am pretty certain that the intervention of the Belgian authorities that has been reported was not the main reason why Ryanair later agreed to transport all who had not be misbehaved - but rather some sound legal advice from Ryanair's legal counsel.

The students were not drunk, according to the traveler whom we interviewed, but they were noisy

Hmmm, I thought that was a common occurence on a Ryanair plane. :E Maybe the pax confused it with taped messages selling game cards, train tickets and the like :p

P.S.: Just noted on BBC World on TV that they have in a news banner reporting the story. It says it was a row over "hand baggage fees" - not that the BBC gives MOL some ideas :oh:

[The Old Fat One]

Better still load them onto cattle trucks


They were already on a cattle truck.

[WallyWumpus]

SMUDGER,

I am not jumping on you personally, but you raise an interesting point wrt sources of frustration of people at the gate, which, when combined with tiredness of alcohol and/or travelling stress, can often lead to ugly confrontation scenes.

Why do passengers think they can turn up with hand-luggage that is either a little over-sized, or a little over-weight from the published dimensions, and get onto the a/c with impunity? Fair enough to take being "caught" and charged with good-humour, but to get abusive with the staff................

[T-21]

Oh to have allocated seating,proper onflight meals and passengers who respected the captain and crew. Now they get on board rushing and pushing and act as if they own the plane. Cheap flights yes but we have lost manners and decency it has all become so arrogant and complacent.
Fed up with the whole airport experience,lucky I lived thru the days of Dan-Air,Britannia,Monarch(old school) and Courtline now that was travel.

[WillDAQ]

Good for Ryanair.

Nothing more annoying than finding the overhead bins full of excess crap other people have smuggled passed the gate.

[Bigmouth]

Charge peanuts, get monkeys.

[40&80]

Every trip I have flown in retirement as a passenger on Ryan Air has been just fine.
I have been careful to abide by the rules and done everything on line and have never had any problems.
As a retired pilot I am comforted by my observations on boarding of the outside condition of their modern B737 fleet.
It is 100% less hassle for me to fly Ryan Air than to attempt to obtain my retirement travel tickets from Gulf Air.

[Bearcat]

i'm 100% behind FR here. It appears the students decided to be distruptive to delay departure re their pal with the overweight/over large bag. . People need to realise that this type of behaviour in an enclosed space is de facto mutiny and a cleaver needs to fall on this type of scenario for future ill conceived thoughts by others.

From FR site

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

100 Passengers Offloaded from Lanzarote - Charleroi flight
Ryanair today (5th Feb) confirmed that it had offloaded a group of 100 passengers travelling from Lanzarote to Brussels Charleroi on FR8175 at the request of Spanish Police. This group became disruptive, and refused to comply with crew instructions after a number of their group were required to pay a gate bag fee for outsized luggage.

Lanzarote police required the entire aircraft be offloaded, each passenger identified. Following further disruptive behaviour, the police required for security reasons that this enitre group be refused travel.

Ryanair apologises sincerely to the 66 remaining passengers who suffered a 3hr delay while Ryanair and the local police were dealing with this disruptive group. Ryanair's handling agent in Lanzarote will be reaccommodating some of this group on later flights to Charleroi but any individuals who engaged in disruptive behaviour or refused to follow crew instructions will not be allowed to fly.

The safety and security of Ryanair's passengers, crew and aircraft will remain Ryanair's number 1 priority

[Yaw String]

Cases of potential disruptive, violent or abusive passengers occur every day around the World. Passenger angst would appear to be on the increase, especially when flying on the good value "low cost" carriers
The difference between an incident turning from purely anecdotal, to a full blown media event, more often than not lies with the skill and experience of the cabin staff having to deal with it.
Just maybe some of these carriers need to spend more on teaching passenger handling skills, that, used correctly, could contain such situations.
Obviously, seriously drunk or drugged passengers are not able to listen to reason. In their case, 20 minutes at 30 deg C, with a cabin altitude of 6000' will send them up the wooden stairs to bedfordshire in no time at all, then the cabin can be bought back down to normal temperature again. Tried it and it does work!:ok:

[Neptunus Rex]

T-21
Not forgetting British Caledonian.

I am now retired and travel by air as little as possible because it is such a gruesome experience.

[WHBM]

Passenger angst would appear to be on the increaseI still am looking for any analysis to confirm my suspicion that the increase in passenger aggression is connected to the ban on smoking in recent times, which has progressively expanded from the cabin to embrace maybe the several prior hours, from entering the terminal. What proportion of the aggressors are smokers, compared to the overall passenger proportion of these.

Obviously, seriously ..... drugged passengers are not able to listen to reason.Or non-drugged, for those used to nicotine.

[The Old Fat One]

I am now retired and travel by air as little as possible because it is such a gruesome experience

You, me and an ever increasing disillusioned public. As transport costs inevitably rise and work-from-home technology rapidly improves, mass transport will become mainly a leisure associated occupation.

The only method of mass transport that still treatsd its customers like human beings are cruise ships.

Buses, trains and especially air transport treat their customers like cattle, so why are they surprised when the respond accordingly?

[scotbill]

There is an underlying assumption running through this thread that LoCos like Ryanair are cheaper than legacy carriers. That is often the case for the single traveller who is computer savvy, travels light and is flexible about timings.
However, it is always worth checking the the websites of the classic carriers - having done your arithmetic carefully on the many ingenious but cumulatively expensive add-ons per sector of airlines like RYR.
Remember that British scheduled airlines give the total price upfront whereas the RYR basic can increase exponentially. The modern inability to do any kind of mental arithmetic helps them get away with it!
I have often found that BMI and BA can compete with or even undercut MoL on fares - and the experience is much more pleasurable!

[sTeamTraen]

You, me and an ever increasing disillusioned public. As transport costs inevitably rise and work-from-home technology rapidly improves, mass transport will become mainly a leisure associated occupation.

The only method of mass transport that still treatsd its customers like human beings are cruise ships.

Buses, trains and especially air transport treat their customers like cattle, so why are they surprised when the respond accordingly?
Well, yes, except that of course Pax numbers continue to rise because RYR and co have made it possible for people to travel, who never could before.

Eevn five years ago, there is no way a bunch of Belgian students would have been able to fly 1500NM for a few days American-style "spring break". These are not people who are treated like cattle by airlines every day of the week; they're kids for whom the trip should have been something at least slightly special.

I'm getting on RYR in 6 hours time for a trip FKB-STN-FKB. Total cost, including the silly EUR 5 booking fee per segment: EUR 30, return, for a 24-hour trip to the UK. At that price I don't expect anything very special, and I know that if I turn up with two pieces of hand luggage, I will be hit hard. That's because I know that restricting the amount of hand luggage is one of the ways that they make it possible to have the flight at that price in the first place.

I fly RYR about 4-5 times per year and they've yet to let me down. Last time I went on Air France I spent 24 hours waiting for them to sort out a strike. No PAX compensation for strikes... even if it's the airline's own staff on strike. :ugh:

[BabyBear]

I have often found that BMI and BA can compete with or even undercut MoL on fares - and the experience is much more pleasurable!

Indeed, I often find BA better than Flybe in terms of service and price to a particular destination. Ironically depending on where I fly from it is often Flybe who do the first leg, albeit booked direct with BA.

[wheelbarrow]

Kudos to the crew. Hope these savage passengers get taught a good lesson for disruption on board.
If they could use their tiny brains and realise when they booked that a condition of the airline providing travel is that they accept the terms and conditions fees etc laid out very plainly on the site.

I personally traveled 4 airlines in the past week. FR to Las Palmas excellent service, brand new aircraft, Spanair in R class to Madrid in a clapped out A320 Bad service crew dis interested and not attentive.
Air France another very old A320 to CDG. Crew totally uninterested and rude to say the least. 80 paxs squezzed into 15 rows, first 14 rows blocked off.
Austrian to VIE fabulous best airline Ive travelled with. And another Ryanair flight from Bratislava again fabulous service.

[Sober Lark]

Glad to see most travel insurance won't pay these thugs a single cent which is the way it should be.

In passing, who argued the point for 'adult only' flights? Give me a screaming baby anytime.

[The Old Fat One]

Well, yes, except that of course Pax numbers continue to rise because RYR and co have made it possible for people to travel, who never could before


You misunderstand me. I'm not popping off at RYR. When is comes to customer care the whole industry sucks.

As for increasing numbers - yes, but it will become a predominantly low cost (relative cost), low service, leisure only industry as we move into the future....with associated crap working pay and conditions for those in it.

[Capetonian]

Remember that British scheduled airlines give the total price upfront

BA are about to introduce CC charges (or maybe already have?), which won't be on the scale of the per sector per person ripoff practised by FR, but will add to cost.

Many of the OLTA's offer the same or better fares than the airlines' own websites and no CC charges, although whether introducing another link in the chain is smart or not is another argument.

[starling60]

Quote you 100%! Just booked a flight with a European flag carrier that ceme ou to be 100£ + cheaper than so called LoCos for same destination.
People do your maths, at times they are cheaper, sometines not!

[racedo]

BA are about to introduce CC charges (or maybe already have?), which won't be on the scale of the per sector per person ripoff practised by FR, but will add to cost.


BBC News - British Airways raises fuel surcharge by £12 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12368692)

BA increase fuel surcharge by another £12....................nuff said

[Gertrude the Wombat]

The only method of mass transport that still treatsd its customers like human beings are cruise ships.
Really? Not set foot on one myself, but seeing the crocodiles of punters herded on and off, rushed round the tackiest of grockle "attractions" onshore, made to queue at checkpoints to get back on the boat, ect ect, has put me off ever wanting to.

[The Old Fat One]

Really? Not set foot on one myself, but seeing the crocodiles of punters herded on and off, rushed round the tackiest of grockle "attractions" onshore, made to queue at checkpoints to get back on the boat, ect ect, has put me off ever wanting to.


Congratulations on missiing the point by a country mile.

I share you view on cruise holidays...went on one once, didn't like it, mainly for the reasons you articulate.

However, the customer service was outstanding from start to finish - and my friends who cruise tell me it always is. I expect the airlines (and some trains) were much like this in times past.

Nowadays, unless you can afford business class or better, airline travel is the complete pits...whoever you fly with.

PS

I visited the Sistine Chapel on my cruise. I'm thinking Michel Angelo might have issues with that being described as a "tacky tourist attraction" :E:E

[fireflybob]

Thing is a lot of airlines now think they're in the "transportation" business but, in fact, in any long term business you're in the "people" business.

Much of good business, imho, is about fostering and maintaining good relationships with the customers.

[The Old Fat One]

Fireflybob

Nail firmly clouted

[corsair]

Terms and conditions apply in several languages. Get over it. The airline business has changed. It's not the cosy business it was. They deserved to be kicked off. Whatever you think of Ryanair, you get what you pay for.

I personally am sick of Ryanair bashing. Frankly if you haven't got the message by now. Where the hell have you been?

You get what you pay for. No one out there can have any illusions that we are back in the day when airlines were cosy little cartels.

Back in that day, those students would have boarded a coach in Brussels and then caught a ferry to Lanzarote because they couldn't have afforded the flight. Actually, wait, they would never have got to the Canaries. Spain probably, by coach, no further.

They overreacted and paid the price. My sympathy is with the Ryanair crew.

[west lakes]

To be honest I read threads like this, with the inevitable bashers of airlines - organisations can be fair game. But often it then descends to crew bashing, often cabin crew because they are on the front line!

I am not involved with aviation, but over the last few years have been privileged to become friends with a number of aviation professionals, some of the cabin crew.

All I can say is that it is an absolute privilage to know these friends and thart before the "knockers" press the submit button ask yourselves one question

"would I like to see a post having a go at me or people that do the same job as me, on this site?", if the answer is no, don't press the button!

[FlyingKiwi_73]

I think the issues is most people now treat airlines like buses, they have a huge amount of variety in where and when you go as well as how often and what they pay.

Most self loading freight don't know nor do they want to know anything about the environment they'll be locked into for the next N hours, most want to sit down have a drink watch a movie etc... Its a Bus, get on get off.

They have no idea of the training that is involved in the people who are up front behind the bullet proof door (theya re just the bus drivers) or walking the Aisles (serve the food, serve the booze). They also have no comprehension of how hostile the environment can be at 30000ft, bad weather just means 'bumps' etc.

It comes down to respect, for the crew and the environment. Its the difference between a Bus driver and an ATPL Pilot. I'm not knocking bus drivers but theres a bit more invloved in an ATPL....

[The Old Fat One]

Self Loading Freight = Customers = The People that pay your Salary

(Whether you're a bus driver or ATPL)

Just a thought

[Tony_SLF]

Well said. SLF is the pejorative term of choice by these throw backs to a bygone age of sub servience and misplaced respect. If you treat people badly, do not hide behind your 'rights'. Treat people like a POS and you will reap your reward

Flying with a proper airline includes staff who understand the difference between firmly applying high standards and pushing people around because you have the power so to do.

Cheap is a poor measure. Value always was and always will be the only relevant benchmark

Having saidi that, well done to the Ryan Air captain. I would love to have seen this unwind albeit as a fly on the wall rather than a fellow piece of SLF.

[FlyingKiwi_73]

Well said. SLF is the pejorative term of choice by these throw backs to a bygone age of sub servience and misplaced respect. If you treat people badly, do not hide behind your 'rights'. Treat people like a POS and you will reap your reward

Look i have never seen a Captain or first officer push anybody around, and very few cabin crew, counter staff thats another thing. Its more a product of the companies themselves, and their sometimes bizzare policies.
What i'm talking about is the everyday common courtesy. OK i do not expect the average punter to understand Slot times (no you cannot board the plane 20 minutes before departure), or ATC delays in Brussels, but they need to understand Airplanes are more complex than a train or a bus, and by extension the systems that control them. There is usually a very good reason why push back is delayed. sometimes its for your safety sometimes its totally beyond the control of the person your venting at.

Flight crew deserve your respect they do a hard job, they sacrificed allot to fly you about and they don't get paid that well to do it (certainly not the regionals)

[Tony_SLF]

Ryan Air workers are the equivalent of the call centre operatives who make cold calls that bug our evenings and weekends even though your numbers have been registered with the TPS for decades.

Are they scum or victims when knowingly participating in the excesses of Leary ? Should you be polite to them because it's not their fault or express your views on a scale that quickly goes from polite to 'robust' ?

Are cabin crew endowned with a service culture or proponents of the 'can arrest, must arrest' mentaility that infects the UK plodforce?

When I fly BA and KLM. I find their staff to be professional and competent

When I fly Flybe or Easyjet, I find the staff hounded by a management culture of profiteering and rip off (and I laughed heartily as I recognised everyone of the Flybe staff in ?Come Fly with Me?)

I have flown Ryan Air and it is not an experience I am looking to repeat if there is a good train service.

Next week I fly BA LCY/EDI and it'll be OK. I then fly Flybe EDI/BHX and am already trying to ignore what I know will be an, at best, acceptable experience

Let's not forget that without Leary, flying would still be the preserve of the inbred and self opinionated.

It's my choice and I will smile to myself at the good fortune I have to be a paying passenger with a need to travel.

Let's all remember Ronnie Barker's BAFTA speech. Every line started 'What luck ........................'

[virginblue]

You get what you pay for.

This often quoted line is the biggest misunderstanding of all if we are talking about your rights as a party of the contract with Ryanair. The truth is not "You get what you pay for", but rather "You get what you have entered into a contract for". How much you have paid for it is totally irrelevant. If Ryanair pleases to enter into a contract for 1p, that is wholly up to them. The legal obligations arising from the contract are always the same, regardless whether they sell the product for 0,01 GBP or for 200 GBP. I must admit, however, that Ryanair is pretty good at brainwashing all those without a law degree into believing that by buying a cheap ticket you surrender your legal rights. Which is a pretty impressive achievement and saves them a lot of money. :ok:

[Flying_Frisbee]

Tony SLF, do Call Centre workers not take calls rather than make them?
Either way, I'm at as loss to see how Ryanair staff are comparable to cold callers.

[Manchikeri]

Young girls, maybe as young as 19 years of age dealing with packs of larger louts behaving like wild animals

What has their size got to do with this?:rolleyes:

[Avitor]

I can't see where Ryanair or any other carrier come to that should be criticised for the action taken.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Tony- I think you should go onto a forum which discusses an area u actually have knowledge in. Ryanair crew are amongst the best trained and sought after in the industry, the pilot training is known for it's high standards! Your BA pilot next week was probably taken from Ryanair!

Sought after?! Coveted, desired, in demand. No, they aren't.

Taken from Ryanair?! Head hunted. No, he wasn't.

This coming from a Ryanair pilot who wouldn't fly an aircraft with an inop autopilot out of a London airport.

Back in your box.

[TightSlot]

Dial it down guys...

[Tony_SLF]

Thanks for the feedback Irish.

Having averaged around 50 return flights a year since 2001, I thought I did know something on this topic.

I sit corrected oh great one

[PAXboy]

There is more than enough debate about the term SLF elsewhere that, I suggest, we don't need to clog up this thread with it.
http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/405020-how-do-we-feel-about-term-slf.html

I really like my GP, he looks after me well and if he calls me bad things behind my back - I don't care. Now, back to the sensible behaviour of FR staff to off load bad customers.

[strake]

Again, I idly wonder if I fly on some "parallel universe" on Ryanair 6 times a month.

Admittedly, you do have to know what you are doing when you book a Ryanair flight but once on the a/c I have only ever found a polite and attentive service from the crew - whatever their nationality. Invariably the flights are on-time or slightly ahead of schedule.

Just my experience.

[Manchikeri]

catching a flight is like catching a bus and act accordingly.

Absolutely. Air transportation is nothing more than a glorified omnibus - with perhaps a free cup of tea if one is lucky.

Or, if you like: you get what you have paid for.

[FEHERTO]

Being 25 years in this buisness and flying more than 300k miles a year, I have no understanding for such people.
Beside that they are a risk of safety, they disturb all other passengers, which simply wnat to have a quiet flight from A to B.
But we are not only talking about students. I am hating this "businessmen", who are not willing to switch off their phones even the aircraft reaches Vr. All crews shoudl make it like a crew I had a month ago. The guy did not listen during take-off, he did not listen for landing. When the door opened, two policeman waited for him and I am sure he missed his connection.

Full understanding for all crews, which are not accepting unruly passengers.

[grimmrad]

Interestingly, the SPIEGEl doesn't mention the police intervention and claims that upon a quarrel between a flight attendant and a male passenger the captain ordered 120 passengers out (threw them out of the plane) and than took of with a considerably empty plane. The passengers in the plane state that the action was out of proportion. Now, the Spiegel is pretty reliable and up to good journalism so there seems to be some disconnect between the english and the German reporting.

[dicksorchard]

Any one involved in an altercation aboard an aircraft whether in the air or on the ground that impedes the crew in any way , is seen as threatening or which has an adverse effect on other passengers should be removed from the aircraft and not allowed to fly no matter which company is the carrier !
I have flown Ryanair for the last ten years & have never been able to fault the crew or the service which i have received .
I have how ever been able to fault the behaviour of some of the passengers but ive seen that the same behaviour on Ba , Bmi , Thomson's , Iberia , Monarch flights etc etc and have come across passenger's who have been unruly , drunk , violent , sexist
you name it i have seen it !
Like the passenger on a channel air flight that had been chartered from manchester to Faro who screamed that he was an engineer , that we where all going to die , that the aircraft was unsafe and would explode mid air and who proceeded to drag his wife and two young children out of their seats screaming, The doors had bee already closed so he argued with the captain and steward and was then allowed to disembark with a final scream off " your all going to die "!
But by far the worst event ever was on an Easyjet flight ( pre sept 11th )
Originally due to fly out from Liverpool to Amsterdam that due to fog at liverpool had to fly out of manchester . We where delayed but bussed to Manchester in order to get our flight .
A lot of people used the delayed time to drink more alcohol and consequently coming in to land at schipol we heard a scuffle and loud altercation going on at the back of the plane . One very drunk mancunian guy was having some sort of panic attack and was trying to get into the toilet , he flattened the stewardess who was blocking his way then legged it from the back off the plane right down the ailse past us in the 2nd row and drop kicked the cockpit door open !
screamed sorry at the stunned pilots then hid and locked himself in the toilet !
As Long as i live i will never forget seeing the runway lights thru the cockpit windows and the look ov horror on the Captains face ! We landed 60 seconds later
The dutch police boarded toting machine guns and carted that lunatic off the aircraft with plastic ties on his wrists and ankles and two of his stag weekend buddys got the same treatment after trying to interfere ! The whole plane erupted in aplause !
So as far as im concerned For 100 people to be taken off an aircraft with the help of lanzarote police then something pretty horrendous has had to have happened !
Students hey ! shud carry a public health warning !
more like an army holding a flight to ransom if you ask me !
Well done Ryanair !

[soullimbo]

We refer to these aircraft as "cattlecars", there is little human dignity given to the common pax. You stand inline to get shuffled into a metal tube, stuck sitting in a smaller bt the day seat next to strangers shoulder to shoulder. Have to suffer the repetative BS from cabin crew.

IMHO, FR flies the same type of people that you'd find on any other airline in europe. Lager louts and associated "cattle" if you like, business people, common folks going or coming from their holidays, etc. Most flights are perfect, fit for purpose. You check in, get on, get out, meet your family, friends on the other side. There's sufficient dignity left.

FR cabin crew in general is very professional and I respect them a lot. You may have one that isn't up to the job. We see these in every walk of life. I bet there may be a good few folks here that would BS the passengers if they had to work in the cabin. (I know I would have liked to kick that scum of the plane if I had the chance).

From a member of cabin crew involved, I heard that this bunch of students were very irritating and their behavior was childish and irresponsible. The captain did what was normal under these circumstances and cabin crew had to put up with a lot prior to that.

[bealine]

No excuses for violence - ever! Totally bad form!

Love 'em or hate 'em, everyone is well aware of their reputation for Ryanair's ruthlessness when it comes to excess baggage. Read the T&C's and stay within your limits and you won't have a problem! There's many a little Irishman takes a weekend jaunt into Europe with just a bag slung over his shoulder on the 99p or £1.99 each way deals and doesn't get any nasty shocks!