Layman's question, wind limits.

[The Oberon]

With the wind gusting mid, upper 40s this morning I was a bit suprised to see the Red Arrows up practicing both formation and synchro, must make life a bit difficult. Can someone say at what windspeed formation aerobatics would be called off ?? No axes to grind, just a question.

[Opsbeatch]

Windspeed doesn't really mater once you've unstuck yourself from the ground, no mater what the windspeed is on the ground the aircraft will still fly at xxxknots, the relative groundspeed will of course be different.

If the windspeed is 50kts and the aircraft is flying at 200kts the groundspeed flying into wind would be 150kts. If it were flying downwind then the groundspeed would be 250kts. Flying crosswind you would see the aircraft crabbing to maintain a heading.

Windspeed is not the issue with formation flying, the more pressing issue is turbulence which can be caused by stronger winds of course. I have however, flown in strong winds but it has been calm until the last couple of hundred feet.

Think that's it in Layman's terms...

OB

[soddim]

There was a time when fast jets did not train with strong surface winds because the hazard of landing from a Martin-Baker letdown and being dragged was thought to be significant. I recall the limits were introduced after an unlucky individual was dragged into a dry stone wall.

[Pontius Navigator]

opsbeach you are correct as far as it goes.

Display flying, as opposed to formation flying, is very much affected by the wind as the display is locked to the display line. The formation must therefore display in both the vertical and the horizontal making large corrections throughout to maintain the illusion of no wind.

Of course they need to practise in such conditions so they can display in most weathers.

[Justanopinion]

There is a bang seat limitation for take off and that is the wind has to be less that <40kts.

Not sure what the cross wind limit is for a Hawk.

I am confident some one will correct me if i am wrong.

[The Oberon]

Thanks for the answers, it's not so much the windspeed I was asking about, more the effect of the gusting when in close formation and also when going head to head as per synchro.

P.S. It's gusting even more this afternoon and they're still at it.

[Pontius Navigator]

Justanopin, the wind limit applied to the operating area.

If it was flat calm at base and over limits in an LFA then that LFA would not be used. It used to limit Ops in the North Sea. Clearly if there was a very strong wind at base, but within the x-wind limits, than take-off would have been stopped.

[Justanopinion]

PN

It used to limit Ops in the North Sea

Still does

[BEagle]

It used to limit Ops in the North Sea.

Until such time as it began to affect the monthly 'hours achieved' line on the boss's wall.....:rolleyes:

[just another jocky]

I was under the (perhaps mistaken) assumption that all FJ had a wind limit of "steady 35kts, gusts 40kts" limit, this being the limit for a parachutee being likely to survive the impact/dragging. Maybe they work to different limits, though I'd be surprised. Perhaps the TAF was no more than 40kts (if you ask the Met Man nicely, they'll usually keep it below 40kts).

[Pontius Navigator]

Just another, TAF maybe and you get airborne but if the surface wind in your planned area . . .


Just, I was hedging my bets as Sodim had suggested the rule had changed.

BEagle, you are so right. On one sqn we had '6' crews. One was the training flight so they did less stats than the 5 Op crews. We therefore had to to 6/5 worth of the BTR stats so the boss got a 100% score.