LHR nostalgia

[Discorde]

Forgive me if a thread like this is already extant and I've missed it. It was triggered by two excellent threads about the Conc and the Tripod on the 'Tech Log' forum.

My family moved to Isleworth in the mid-1950s. Our house was near the OM for 28L so airliners were continually droning over our heads. A goodly proportion of them were BEA Viscounts so the whine of Darts was part of the soundtrack of my youth.

In those days the LHR Central Area consisted of three buildings: The Queen's Building (admin), the tower and THE terminal (later named 'Europa', later still the more prosaic 'Terminal 2'). The two narrow bore tunnels alongside the road access tunnels connecting the A4 to the Central Area were intended for cyclists (and pedestrians!), which is how we plane-spotters got there. The car park was just a cleared area of hard standing adjacent to the QB. A Dragon Rapide flew joyrides for 10 shillings a throw.

A common myth today tells of the unreliability of large piston aero-engines in the 'old days'. We spotters watched hundreds of propliners fly over us on final approach. A feathered prop was in fact an event rare enough to be worthy of comment.

The following is an edited version of an article I sent to 'Touchdown' (the magazine for retired BA staff), which they published on their Letters page:

<<My junior school was located even closer to the OM, which meant that airliners passing overhead were flying approximately 1300 feet above ground level. Most of the children paid no attention to the machines droning over the school – they made little noise apart from the very occasional jet, such as the RAF’s Comet 2s, Air France’s prototype Caravelles and Aeroflot’s Tu104s.

We plane-spotters watched them all, noting down registrations of course. Even indoors we could identify aircraft types by the timbre of their engines. The crackle of Wright Turbo-Compounds was the signature of Super Connies, while Merlins meant Argonaut or York.

One spring morning in 1958, during break, we spotters in the playground identified a distant approaching aircraft as either DC4 or Argonaut (the airframes were virtually identical). Unusually it was flying much lower than normal. As it got closer the narrow frontal area of its engine nacelles told us ‘Argonaut’ and soon the growl of Merlins confirmed the identity. By now, other children were taking interest. The noise of kids at play gradually subsided as one by one they stopped their games and stood rooted to the spot watching the BOAC aircraft roar past, the eyes of a couple of hundred temporarily silent and motionless children following its progress. I estimated that its height was about 500 feet. The aircraft did not appear to be in trouble. All four props were turning and it was not descending. I noted the registration, of course, but sadly this snippet of data has since escaped my memory. We all watched as the aircraft sedately flew on towards Heathrow and gradually the other children lost interest and resumed their playground activities.

There was no subsequent reference to the incident in any of the media and I wonder if perhaps the crew of the Argo were just having a bit of fun. In those days Captains had more latitude about how they flew their aircraft. A repeat performance today would probably result in a no-biscuit interview of the crew by their managers.>>

[Wander00]

I was brought up in Eastcote, and went to school in Harrow. Consequently saw a lot of the Northolt circuit and aircraft approaching Heathrow. Dad worked for a firm on Poyle Trading Estate in Colnbrook, so a treat on the Saturday mornings that he went in for sales meetings was to go and sit outside the factory (Sprung Slumber) and watch the whole range of piston engined airliners approaching HR. I guess over Colnbrook they were between 300 and 500ft. I can still sense the vibration in my stomach from those wonderful piston engines.

[Proplinerman]

Wish I'd been around in those days, but 1971-6 was my planespotting era.

A "No biscuit interview." I like that!

[tristar 500]

Got married in March 1966, (best time for tax, remember that!!) & lived for a time in Vickerage Farm Road, just by the A4 Bath Road.

Having worked a night shift at Heathrow, I got home & took new wife to work in Hounslow. It was a Friday because Waitrose where she worked stayed open until 2100. Was supposed to collect her, but, was rudely awakened about 2130 by said wife storming in & waking me up!!

Just about the 12 hours sleep, with the aircraft about 500 feet above the house all day.

Aircraft noise? What aircraft noise!!

tristar 500

[Kiltrash]

In Mid '70's my most direct route from home to work involved the perimiter road, though BEA and BOAC Engineering and along the north side and out by the pub at Colnbrook (name).

One day, probably '72?? just after the Munich games massacre racing a prop job as it took off on 28R, in my Hillman Imp. was brought to a screaming halt by the army road blocks, tanks and guns and spent the next 3 hours trying to explain I was not a terorrist!!:uhoh:, Brother who worked at Heathrow had to come and verify who I was

Heathrow was not the same since.

Happy Days:)

[Geezers of Nazareth]

The 'Army turning-up' at Heathrow happened several times during the 70s ... the first few times would appear to have been immediately after some kind of incident elsewhere in the world, but several other times it happened as a 'reminder' that the security forces were out there, and available at short/no-notice.

My OM used to work at Heathrow and had many tales of run-ins with the Army. It seems he'd show his ID badge to the first Army bloke he encountered, and continue on his way. When he was next challenged he'd just ignore them and carry-on as if they weren't there! They'd get very jumpy, so he'd simply drive-off in his van (he was 'airside' and could go pretty much anywhere he wanted!), leaving them fuming.

In fairness, he was 'ex-Services' himself, so he knew what he could and could not do, and just how far he could push them.

[The SSK]

In the days before security you could roam around just about anywhere, if you knew where you were going or at least if you looked as though you did.

1973-1979 I was working for BOAC/BA in Speedbird House and just behind the back entrance was a door in the blast fence which let on to the apron by the Wing Hangar (Tech Block B). Around the bottom of the hangar was our preferred canteen so you would often be ducking under the wings of the 707s and VC10s parked there, if it was raining you would take a shortcut through the hangar, taking care to avoid any puddles of Skydrol. No badges or IDs whatsoever.

Another time, myself and a colleague decided to lunch in the new-ish Tech Block C and walk back via the aprons. There were parked that day the very first of the 747-200s, just off delivery, and a Concorde. We strolled up the steps to the 747 and asked one of the folks starting work on the (empty) interior if we could have a look around. Having done that we thought – why not? – and went up iunto the Concorde. It was deserted, and for ten minutes we had the run of the aircraft, cabin and flight deck, to ourselves.

[rogerbucks]

I worked opposite LHR for a company on the Bath Road in the late 70's.
A lady I worked with was friends with a British Airways 'groundie' (J.T.)

In return for a free flight from Biggin to Shoreham and back in my club 150, John, (with a cursory wave of his pass), gave me a tour of the hangars, including a VC10 (used just for training I think- it had just 6 seats in the cabin) and Concorde!
I sat transfixed in the L/H seat, as the engineers went about their business around us- Pure magic!

John always wanted to be a pilot, and I was thrilled some years later to hear that he had not only done just that, but was a F/O on Concorde!:D

[The-Zenith]

Memories of a spotter in the 1970's whilst still at school was travelling up to LHR on a Saturday morning on a Green Line Golden Rover ticket on the 727 bus. After dodging about on MSCP roofs and over to Queens Bld it was off to The Aviation Hobby Shop in West Drayton on an ONK bus.

ONK was the first 3 letters of all the reg's they were bright yellow. Then with new postcards in hand it was back to LHR for the 727 home again. Not exactly a misspent youth..:uhoh:

[treadigraph]

In the mid 70s the bus was 5p per sector for spotty little oiks. So I used to get the earliest pssible 109 from Purley to Brixton, a bus from there to Hounslow, and another to the central terminal area. It took several hours though, and with a little more pocket money, train and tube became de rigeur, and eventually bicycle via Banstead Downs, Tolworth, Hampton Court and Feltham. That took about an hour and a half.

Used to visit AHS as well - I eventually gave all my postcards (mostly freebies from the airlines) to some kid at Gatwick who had just started collecting. Some years later I visited a collectors' fair at Crawley and was amazed to see how much some of them, and the airline timetables I'd thrown out, were worth! :{

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

I was thinking about my first experience of LHR only the other day, and it has to do with the recent tragic death of Trevor Bailey. On the 30th of June, 1953, Heathrow North Side, I was excitedly waiting with my parents to board a BOAC Argonaut, bound for Accra, Gold Coast (as it was then) for my first ever flight. Outside, the apron had Stratocruisers, DC-6s (PanAm), and I remember being a little bit disappointed when my father pointed out 'our' aeroplane that it wasn't the interesting one with 'the three tails' (Constellation).

When the boarding call came: "Passengers should extinguish their cigarettes and follow the blue/green/...red?* light to embarkation," my father had to be torn away from the knot of people at the bar. Not for reasons of any last-minute 'Dutch Courage' you understand, but they were crowded round the radio set, listening to Trevor Bailey and Willie Watson doing their heroic stand against the Aussie attack in the Lord's Test Match.

The other interesting thing is that, while the engines were being run up, a Comet 1 taxied past and took off, taking the Queen Mother, and I think Princess Margaret on a tour of Rhodesia and Nyasaland.

* There was a series of painted light bulbs in the ceiling, which you followed to reach the correct exit onto the apron, where a BOAC ground girl was waiting with a clipboard to tick your names off on the passenger list. There were three colours. Blue and green I'm sure of, not so sure about red.

The other thing I remember is the Alcock and Brown statue outside the Forte restaurant, and all the chairs being wicker.

[avionic type]

Since we are in a nostalgic mood when as a 16 year old trainee electrician with BOAC in 1947 we transfered from Bovingdon to "The London Airport" and I was seconded to the "North Side "and did a spell on Arrivals and Departures" and as there was about 20 arrivals and departures a shift in those days we used to go on the Pan Am , American Arlines ,and other ailines getting yesterdays papers and the unused chewing gum from the "Hosties " who to me [all pimples and a D.A. haircut ]looked like film stars,[remember sweets were rationed in those days] pure bliss.seeing the Hollywood stars arrive and depart the odd Royal and Government official ,
market gardens all around the airport sparking plugs available at 2/6d [15p]a set of 4 from Champions at Hatton Cross no TBAor BEA hangers
one could go on but enough boring you :ok::ok::ok:

[JEM60]

Bus from Wendover, Bucks to Amersham. Bus from Amersham to Uxbridge, then to Heathrow and walk through the tunnel, and what delights awaited a 15 year old. Complete with my Ian Allen Airliner Registration books, many a happy day was spent. Stratocruisers, Constellation,s DC3s, Yorks [Hunting Clan] DC4s,6s,7s, and then a Jet!!!! A Comet appeared out of the gloom!! Everyone ran for a closer view. How times have changed! Bring a DC6 in, and everyone would flock to see it again.
Happy,happy days, which led to a lifetime of Aviation hobbying, covering the globe, Gliding, Skydiving, PPl. Thankyou Heathrow. I remembered all these days as I walked down the jetway to become a passenger on Concorde, a long way from the wide-eyed 15 year old!!

[Dr Jekyll]

Watching an old TV series probably filmed in 1975, there was a scene at Heathrow.

Among the BA Tridents there was one in BEA colours. Would this have been one they still hadn't got round to repainting or must it have been the instructional airframe that was never repainted?

[avionic type]

All Tridents were in BEA colour scheme ie Red wings and a red square with BEA in white from makers factory in the 60s until about a year after the merger, they were repainted as soon as possible , and as there were nearly or over a 100 aircraft of all types in our fleet it took a little time to do it.We never had an instructional airframe as such to my knowledge they were all flyers.:(:(:(

[alisoncc]

Have memories of Pan Am taking delivery of the very first 747 from Boeing in '69. They brought it across to LHR for show and tell. Got shown and told. Looked positively huge with all the 707's and other littlies around it.

[ChrisVJ]

Late 1940s my grandfather was the contracting quantity surveyor for the construction of LHR. On Saturdays when I wasn’t at boarding school we would drive from Putney to the South side buildings where his office was in a portable, but comfortable with a big desk and a leather sofa. I would sit for half an hour or so while he made phone calls and then we’d go over to the other side for lunch in the restaurant, which was in a Nissen hut. They had an hors d’oeuvre trolley, all rotating chrome and white dishes which you could choose from, then breaded plaice, chips and peas because I was too nervous to choose anything more interesting.

Had my sixth or seventh birthday party in that restaurant with a tour of the Comet and a huge bonfire afterwards down near the end of the airport. (Couldn’t do a lot of things these days!)

He used to organise Cricket matches on the airport, builders vs news people (there was a news agency on the airport) or administrators.

[GANNET FAN]

On a slight thread drift, I vividly remember at the end of school term, boarding a BEA Viking to meet my parents in Malta, but from Northolt. Why from there and not Heathrow?

[The SSK]

avionic type: All Tridents were in BEA colour scheme ie Red wings and a red square with BEA in white from makers factory in the 60s until about a year after the merger

You're forgetting this unfortunate livery

http://files.myopera.com/Flying%20Red%20Fox%20Blog/blog/2008_0218MAN0226.JPG

We never had an instructional airframe as such to my knowledge they were all flyers.
There used to be an ‘instructional’ BOAC Argonaut at Hatton Cross in the late 1960s, and I’ve actually driven it! At Easter 1966 I went on a week’s ‘careers course’ for sixth formers at BOAC and at one point we were taken up into the Argonaut, two of the engines were started and we were each allowed to sit in the left hand seat and work the throttles up to a certain rev limit.

My uncertain memory tells me that at that stage there were still Comets and DC-7Fs around in BOAC livery, not sure about Britannias. When I joined the company a year and a half later, all were gone.

[tornadoken]

GF: Northolt was BEA's London terminal until LHR Central was phased in. Ambassadors and Viscounts were first there, Vikings split between the two, 4/50-last Northolt service, 30/10/54.

[GANNET FAN]

Thanks tornadoken.
I think my flight was at Christmas time 53. Returned in a DC3. Remember flying in an Elizabethan to Naples I think in '57, guess that must have been from Heathrow.

[Discorde]

Northolt was BEA's London terminal until LHR Central was phased in. Ambassadors and Viscounts were first there, Vikings split between the two, 4/50-last Northolt service, 30/10/54.

. . . although Pan Am landed a 707 at Northolt in 1960 - the crew were headed for LHR R23 & got themselves into a bit of a muddle.

[Warmtoast]

Georgeablelovehowindia


The other interesting thing is that, while the engines were being run up, a Comet 1 taxied past and took off, taking the Queen Mother, and I think Princess Margaret on a tour of Rhodesia and Nyasaland.


You're right. It was Comet G-ALYW, it took off from London at 1.15 p.m. (G.M.T.) on Tuesday, June 30th 1953.

I was at 5 FTS, RAF Thornhill, Rhodesia at the time and took these photos of the Queen Mum and Princess Margaret as they inspected an RAF Guard of Honour at the nearby town of Gwelo (now Gweru).

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Thornhill/QueenMumPrincessMargaretVisit-July19531.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Thornhill/QueenMumPrincessMargaretVisit-July19534.jpg

[avionic type]

The SSK please forgive I had brain failure , a "Senior Moment ", memory loss, and forgot that scheme you are quite right they were all painted later in that colour scheme and the BEA was removed and the word British and the Speedbird badge added after the merger and we also lost our Bealine callsign and became Speedbird But we never had an instructional airframe as such whilst they were in service and the only one that ever did was the Trident 3 that had its wings cropped and used for towing instruction after they all went out of service:{:{:{

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<we also lost our Bealine callsign >>

But for a very long time after, the tugs still used the callsign Bealine. Wonder if they still do??

[Flightwatch]

Beeline is now the official r/t callsign of Brussels Airlines. I haven't operated through LHR for 10 years now but I guess the tug callsigns may have changed in the light of this?

[Banupa]

My first memories of, what is now, Heathrow was a joy ride for 7 shillings and sixpence, in a Dragon Rapide operated by Island Air Services. They had 3 based at Heathrow and operated from where Terminal 1 is. The trip was a quick circuit, but I can remember the reservoirs and "air pockets", or so I was told by an "experienced" passenger.
My parents also took me to see the aircraft that were taking part in the London to Sydney air race in 1953, I think. There was a Canberra, Viscount and I think a Hastings that I can remember.
In 1958 I started school at New Road Secondary Modern, just across the A4 from the airport. History lessons were best as they were from a classroom on the 3rd floor, making it easy to watch the Skyway's Yorks, BOAC Argonauts, Stratocruisers and Connies taking off to the west. Spotting was carried out at lunchtimes and after school.
Lots more memories, but I'd hate to be a bore! :zzz:

[avionic type]

Proberly like Engineering old habits kept it in use, the older engineers used the Beatech callsign for awhile when calling Tech 1,2,and3 out of sheer habit and the BEA hangers were always known as Bealine base for year or two after it became TB E As the late chief engineer John Perkins once said "In Engineering there will never be a British Airways until the last members of the 2 old Corporations has died ".

[Dr Jekyll]

But we never had an instructional airframe as such whilst they were in service and the only one that ever did was the Trident 3 that had its wings cropped and used for towing instruction after they all went out of service

That's the one I was thinking of. I remember boarding a shuttle to Edinburgh in early 1980 and seeing a Trident in BEA colours, it puzzled me for years until I heard about the one for towing practice. So was it kept in BEA colours all along or repainted as BA then returned to the older livery later?

[avionic type]

It was kept in the BEA colours as it was taken over by a appreciation group who looked after it and bought it back to its former glory with I believe BAs blessing till the bean counters found it was costing it MONEY to park it where it was and it was dismantled and taken north [I'm sure our Aircraft spotter friends can give you chapter and verse better than I can] but I believe it has been transferred again to somewhere else , I just hope it will be back in one piece and back to it's former glory soon.though the3 was not my favorait airplane it is the last of its line of work horses and mucked about in the design stage so it never stood a chance against thr B727 it provided me with work over 20 odd years.I belive nearly all the othe Tridents saved are 1s and 2s but I could be wrong [be gentle lads]the rest are on fire dumps.
best of luck to the group who are hoping to rebuild G-ARPO also in the north

[DozyWannabe]

Have memories of Pan Am taking delivery of the very first 747 from Boeing in '69. They brought it across to LHR for show and tell. Got shown and told. Looked positively huge with all the 707's and other littlies around it.

Not to put a downer on this lovely thread - but I have to say... Poor old Clipper Victor.

J.

[robmack]

At BEAs' Training Centre at the old Viking Centre, near Hatton Cross, was fuselage of one of the prototype Ambassadors which was used for cabin crew training. About 1959-1961? Have a photo of it somewhere, but posting photos on here has so far defeated me.

[Discorde]

7 November 1963. We hear on the news that the previous evening an airliner has run off the end of the runway at Heathrow in very foggy conditions and has ended up in a cabbage field. Turns out to be TCA DC8 CF-TJM. After school my friends & I cycle over to the accident site armed with cameras. The area is guarded by a lone policeman, who does not seem to object to us wandering round taking photos.

http://steemrok.com/cftjm/CFTJM%206.jpg

Investigators find that the cause of the incident (in which no-one was seriously injured) was the decision of the captain to reject the take-off at a speed well in excess of V1 because he thought (incorrectly) that the elevator control was defective. Needless to say, there were plenty of extenuating circumstances: there were start-up delays due to the weather, the crew had already done an RTO on 28L due to inadequate visibility before attempting a take-off on 28R and taxying was difficult in the fog, requiring radar assistance from ATC. These and other factors would have depleted the captain's mental capacity.

Incredibly, given the extensive damage incurred, this aircraft was rebuilt. On another thread a poster has referred to 'unlucky' aircraft. Logic suggests that such sentiment is unscientific nonsense. And yet . . . CF-TJM crashed four years later during a training exercise. The three crew on board were killed.

[Props]

In the Sixties the ATC vans had Callsigns Pixie due the Registration PXE.
One afternoon Ground was trying to contact Pixie with no luck and after one call a voice said Perhaps he has gone Gnome!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<has ended up in a cabbage field>>

I believe he was told "Follow the greens".

Pixie was in use well into the 90s and may even still be operational..

[Pom Pax]

Used to know the grower of the cabbages and although the quality was high the market value was low. Compensation was the easiest way to sell the crop. I think Air India also helped with the "harvest" and the Vulcan tragedy. Very difficult to asses how many cabbages had already been picked after a DC8 ploughs through them.

[Discorde]

Discorde Major (self) & Minor (kid brother) at Hatton Cross in 1957, our first visit to Stanwell Aerodrome. We're watching a DC4 on final approach. But which airline? (No, I don't know the answer!)

http://www.steemrok.com/DC4hattonXv2.jpg

[SpringHeeledJack]

Perhaps PanAm or Air France ?



SHJ

[one11]

Perhaps PanAm or Air France ?

Striped tail and wing motif on nose suggests something rarer - Slick Airways were still operating the DC-4 into Heathrow in '57.

http://www.calclassic.com/Images/dc4slk.jpg

[Discorde]

Good spot, 1-11! I scoured my 'Dumpy Book of Aircraft' (1956 ed), my 'Observer's Book of Ditto' (same year) & my Shell-Mex 'Know Your Airliners' (1957 ed) but couldn't find the paint scheme in the pic. That's the great thing about retirement - you can waste hours on such trivia!

(You need to get out more. Ed.)

[Discorde]

Some more pics of 'JM at LHR taken on my trusty Ilford Sportsman 35mm camera can be viewed here (http://steemrok.com/cftjm.html).

Are some aircraft 'unlucky'? Logic says no, but BEA Trident Papa India suffered a similar fate - rebuilt after extensive damage caused by the LHR Ambassador crash (the subject of another PPRuNe thread (http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/352470-airspeed-ambassador-accident-lhr-1968-a.html)) it came to grief in the Staines accident in 1972.

[Discorde]

And here's a pic of an early piston-powered version of the A380, snapped at LHR in 1961 or thereabouts.

http://steemrok.com/deuxpontsv3

[Wander00]

Breguet "Deux Ponts" ISTR

[pax britanica]

Ah the legendary Deux Ponts, a wonderful site from my vantage point sitting on the small strip of land between the rivers on the SW corner of the airport opposite what I think used to be called block79 which was the original end of 28L/10R before it was extended westwards. Many a long sunny summer day spent there watch the amazing selection of aircraft that one got in those days (alright I agree every third plane was BEA Viscount) .
The Deux Pont had to be one at the top of the exotic list especially in the early jet era along with Yorks, CV990s and even an occasional 880, C46s , seemingly enormous Globemaster Mk1s plus some interesting Russian types. Flying may not have been safer then but it was lot more interesting to watch -happy days and lucky to have seen them, and thanks for a very nostalgic thread.
PB

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Breguet "Deux Ponts" ISTR>>

Or a "cow" according to one TWA pilot!

[Allan Lupton]

Not for nothing was Breguet one of the partners in the HBN100 pre-Airbus project (with Hawker Sid. and Nord).

[A30yoyo]

Air France were still operating Deux Ponts on freight services to Heathrow in 1970

[lawrence hole]

I well remember seeing the Breguet Deux Ponts land coming over the Gt.South West Road. At times Heathrow had some very interesting aircraft, such as this American Catalina owned by Mosanto Chemicals.
I lived at Heston so that much of my youth was spent cycling to LHR or making a circuit of the whole of the Airport's circumference via public roads.
Heston of course was an important Airport which during its time became second to Croydon for aircraft movements and nearly became the No.1 Airport for London, before Heathrow was finally decided as the final option.

http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac345/aerofoil/N5804N-CATALINA-LHR_zps256b0d48.jpg (http://s914.photobucket.com/user/aerofoil/media/N5804N-CATALINA-LHR_zps256b0d48.jpg.html)

[Mr Oleo Strut]

What a pleasant surprise it was to see your shot of the DC8 in the cabbage patch, and the Deux-Ponts in profile. What memories! I had a close association with both of them. I was on duty that day when TCA decided to trim the cabbages and was detailed to get out there asap and secure the duty-free bar boxes from predation, which I did. I was in the Customs, you see, the oddly named (well, for an airport) 'Waterguard' service of HMC&E. So armed with the two gold rings which Her Majesty had graciously bestowed on me I leapt into an official car and roared off round the peri-track. I could not shake-off the stench of rotting cabbages for some time afterwards. Now for the Bregeut. Part of our duties involved the boarding and clearance of all incoming aircraft: of these, the Bregeut was particularly interesting. You climbed up into the little door at the back and undertook a sort of Gallic obstacle course, involving various steps and ladders and eventually arrived, breathless, up in the cockpit, much to the amusement of the flight crew. Another interesting two-decker aircraft was the BEA Argosy, but my favourite was the Seaboard & Western CL44 (Britannia) 'hinged-in-the-middle' freighter that used to whisper-in very early in the morning to the Shell hangers over near Hatton Cross. Happy, far-off days, now, but clearly not forgotten. Well done!

[Mr Oleo Strut]

Having discovered this mine of memories of old LHR and casting my mind back to the early sixties when I started working there I was trying to remember the names of some of the pubs and places of refreshment we used at or near the airport. There was, of course, the legendary Peggy Bedford at the top of the Colnbrook bypass, a veritable free-port for the exchange of goods for currency of all types, usually potable or smokable. And the Air Hostess, on the old A4 near the main entrance. Just inside that was a large Nissen hut, a greasy spoon cafe, referred to as the Green Goddess, I think, where deep-fried offerings of dubious provenance were always available. In the centre, where the new (now-ex) control tower was built, there was a big staff canteen and bar which had a mixed reputation, I seem to remember. But for those with a more flexible luncheon timetable there was an establishment on the very isolated south side, at Bedfont, which we used to go to, but the name escapes me, as does that of another pub we used to go to at Harmondsworth. I always looked forward to visiting the very grand staff canteen at BOAC, in the heart of the co-called Kremlin complex. Mind you, the facilities at the new BEA catering base on the North side were not to sneezed at. Very superior watering-holes indeed!

[Discorde]

In the summers of '66 to '68 my vacation job was as an Assistant at the Air Canada Commissary Department, housed in a tatty building next to the Eagle hangars. Some of the catering equipment was stored in old bar boxes rescued from TCA Connies. In '66 the communal AC singalong was 'We all live in an Air Canada DC8' sung to the tune of 'Yellow Submarine'.

Occasionally I would take my Ilford to work to take piccies such as this:

http://steemrok.com/eaglebritsteemsm

Here's a '68 compilation of pics I snapped sitting by R23L during a lunch break (apologies to Ppruners who've seen it before). Damn! I've given the answers away! The Pan Am 707 is noticeably higher than the others - given that 23L was shorter than the other runways I wonder what the crew were thinking as the real estate flashed by below them.

'68 compilation

[A30yoyo]

Oleo Strut...The Northside Nissen hut greasy spoon was the Green Dragon...there was a smaller somewhat similar 'Pan Am Canteen' between the Pan Am hangar and the southern perimeter road near Bedfont but it seemed to be open to all Airport workers with money in their pockets

[Halcyon Days]

I well remember the Green Dragon-you would get an enormous bag of chips for threepence there!!
My Dad was also customs on North side and those very nice waterguard chaps-maybe you Mr Oleo Strut-would often take me out with them if they were rummaging a Stratocruiser/Connie or DC-7 etc if I was hanging about at week ends -spotting-when Dad was on overtime.
They had usually only just arrived and we would have first pickings on some lovely food still in the galley. BOAC being the best-of course!!

[joy ride]

The first flights to and from Heathrow ("London Airport") that I remember were from 1964-8 to and from USA, perhaps 25 times. I loved going up on the roof terrace to see and hear all the planes and airport vehicles. A fascinating mix of piston, turbo-prop and jet planes, including Stratocruiser and Connies alongside VC10s, 707s, DC8s, Comets and Caravelles.

The best vehicles to me were BEA's AEC Regent 1 1/2 decker coaches, and the stylish fuel tankers with extra high windscreens for safety around planes. Walking up the rear steps into VC10s and looking at those engines was always a thrill; air bridges have certainly taken away much of the interest!

A couple of years ago I bought the DCD "Look At Life in the 60s" from Train videos, DVDs (http://www.video125.co.uk) (I have no connection with the company!). This has

City of the Air
The Spirit of Brooklands
Controlled Landing
Air Hostess
Flying to Work
The Big Take Off

I was delighted to see footage of scenes once so familiar, "Oceanic Terminal" and its departures board, the BEA coaches and big windscreen tankers, planes and everything else. I cannot recommend it too highly!

[victor tango]

Nice pic of the Eagle Brit Discorde. Have you any more Eagle shots??

Nobody has mentioned The Three Magpies pub by the police station at the main entrance off the A4 into LHR. Fabulous pub in the 60s !!

[pax britanica]

Well JR you certainly picked outa few iconic symbols of LHR back in the day-yes those tankers with the windows in the roof looked very cool to a 13 year old . Among my favourite moments back then were seeing a Swissair Caravelle land on 28l and deploy the baking parachute . I was watching from the emergency services gate by the Stanwell Rivers and got a great view including the crew climbing down a rope from the cockpit to look it over. Another one was German Beech baron which caught fire on landing- on 10R by block 79 - no real harm done but one engine on fire was dramatic especially as it was followed by a succession of go-arounds-even then LHR had them pretty well stacked up one behind the other on finals. And something one would never see today but one quiet summers evening at the other end of the field at Cains Lane with a little spotter group someone peering down his telescope at the approach exclaimed God a spitfire and the airband radio one of the older guys had crackled into life with Spitfire G-XXXX requesting touch and go. Well not really a touch and go but a low beat up down the runway and then a dramatic pull up into a spiralling climb. Presumably on the way home from an airshow- quite a sight and vividly in my mind all these years on

[Discorde]

The sad demise of Eagle: the grounded fleet at LHR, November 1968:

http://steemrok.com/eagle1st

http://steemrok.com/eagle2st

http://steemrok.com/eagle3st

[Musket90]

Ironically the two B707's, G-AVZZ and G-AWDG shown were soon to join Laker Airways

[Terry McCassey]

. . . And I believe "Dirty Gurty " is still flying !

[DaveReidUK]

And I believe "Dirty Gurty " is still flying !Indeed it is, and looking rather smart, if somewhat anonymous, with the DRC Government:

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/0/8/3/2525380.jpg

[Discorde]

Going back a few more years:

Avro York & Douglas DC-4 - "London Airport" - 1948 - YouTube

[crewmeal]

Anyone seen that 1955 movie "Out of the Clouds' with a brilliant cast including the late great James Robinson Justice playing the part of a BOAC Captain?

Out of the Clouds (1955) - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047319/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1)

[Discorde]

Severe traffic congestion, Central Area, 1950s:

http://steemrok.com/LAP%203%20sm

Note: this image is taken from the booklet 'London Airport: The official story of the new world air centre', published by the General Office of Information in 1956. I have been unable to find the copyright holder.

[Mushroom_2]

From Discorde's interesting London Airport 1948 video:

"Building work will continue for another 6 years" .........http://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/yeees.gif

[BN2A]

Typo... Missed out the zero!! 60 years!!

Oh, hang on, 1948 + 60 = 2008.....

No, can't be that!!

:}

[victor tango]

I thought I would start at the beginning of this thread, and Im glad I did.
There are names of members who dont seem to post any more?
Up to Page 2 all posts are 2011, then suddenly page 3 its 2014. I cant believe no posts for 3 years?

[Proplinerman]

"Anyone seen that 1955 movie "Out of the Clouds' with a brilliant cast including the late great James Robinson Justice playing the part of a BOAC Captain?"


Yes, recorded it off TV some years ago onto a vid, then I think I bought a DVD of it on Amazon? But having just looked through my DVDs and vid's, I can't put my hands on it.


An absolute clunker of a film so far as the plot goes, with love scenes so bad I had to fast-forward through them, but fantastic propliner action at LHR. Well worth getting and sitting through all the nonsense, just for that.

[Dockwell]

Mr Oleo, could the pub in Bedfont possibly be the "Duke of Wellington" in Hatton Road or "The Green Man" near Hatton Cross ? both were a mere stones throw from BEA and BOACs maintenance area. I grew up in a house behind the Green man in the 60's, Mum and Dad moved from London and bought a new house in the country with a big garden that was formerly an orchard with apple and pear trees still planted in lines, the field at the back was a Bluebell field. Every now and and again a Plane would sail over the house and Mum and Dad wondered where they went ! of course they had never heard of the New London Airport :)

[overfly]

Oleo Strut and Dockwell, the Stanwell pub is the Rising Sun. Loving this thread - I started straight from school (Windsor Grammar) in '68 in BEA cargo at Hangar 8, soon moved across to the then-brand-new Cargocentre and well remember legging it across to a small gate in the peri fence on many occasions to get to the pub. When I went back eleven years ago to witness the last Concorde departure I was pleased to note said gate is still there!

[SpringHeeledJack]

Mr Dockwell would your families home have been on the land which was/perhaps still is a field with horses in it ?


SHJ

[Dockwell]

Mr Dockwell would your families home have been on the land which was/perhaps still is a field with horses in it ?


SHJ

Afraid not, I did know the Burnhams who owned the farm though

[avionic type]

One of my best memories of over 45 years at LAP /Heathrow / LHR ,were the day an announcement was made that the "B ofB Memorial Flight"were giving a FLY By down 28 right so the off duty erks went to witness this event outside their crew room door ,Aviation's finest were using said runway for take off not a flicker of interest was shown of DC8s ,747s 757s and sundry other types even Concorde hurtling the runway ,plenty of aircraft in a long line on the holding point, in a short lull a Hurricane, Lancaster ,and a Spitfire flying in formation trundled along the runway not a dry eye to be seen . I don't suppose it will ever happen again it must have been the 40th anniversary of BofB MF or something.

[Mr Oleo Strut]

Just a few more ramblings to add to my posts 49 and 50 about my time at LHR in Customs from 1962 to 1968, before memory fades and the new runway obliterates familiar places:-

Transport. Without your own wheels it was not that easy to get to the the central area for work. I travelled from Reading which, depending on shift patterns, required a trolley bus to Reading station, train to Slough, 81b bus to the north side, walk through the tunnel, or thumb a lift. Sometimes colleagues with cars would do a rota. Other times I used the Thames Valley 'B' bus from London to Reading. All very complicated which soon provoked me to get an old Lambretta scooter with dodgy electrics, until the Queen arranged for me to get a driving license and I acquired a bright new Morris Minor - luxury indeed, particularly because we were allowed to park in the central area. Before the M4/M25 the A4/Great West Road was always busy and the phased traffic lights through Slough were a real lottery.

I remember how quiet the then new Terminal 3 Oceanic was before and after the 'wagon trains' morning and evening. It was quite creepy, a huge building and nobody much about. Very handy for a quiet drink and a kip! Noise restrictions limited night flying but there was a regular arrival of a Seaboard and Western CL44 freighter (based on the 'whispering giant' Britannia) at about 3am which I liked to volunteer to go and clear. There were only three crew to deal with, the whole front of the aircraft hinged open, and I could drive the official car all the way round to Hatton Cross at very high speed on the empty perimeter road. On one occasion I drove off the road at warp speed near Perry Oaks and almost turned the car over. That took some explaining away.

Her Majesty eventually kindly agreed to provide us Customs wallahs with VHF car radios. Huge, hot, unreliable but no doubt very cheap. I think they had been put together by Marconi himself. Trouble was they seriously interfered with local TV reception and the complaints poured in when East Enders was overlaid with hiss, squawk and 'Charlie Whisky 7 go to 75 and 80 (stands) etc'. The radios were quickly withdrawn and we were back to phoning in from the outer stands to get details of the next arrivals. I must add that in those far-off days Customs had to clear aircraft first and deal with bonded stores before the plane could be offloaded. And, of course, there were no airstairs or travellators, it was coaches and your plates of meat! From landing to passports to Customs could be a couple of hours or so before you got out of the Terminal if you were lucky. So what's new, you might say!

Airport security was somewhat low-key - old chaps fast asleep in glass boxes with the barriers up and the airside/landslide boundary about as logical as the Northern Irish border. Fleet Street reporters would slip in and out and leave sarcastic notes in cockpits. I remember the cross-runways being used occasionally and, sadly, several fatal crashes, which naturally shocked us all. There is a photo on this thread of the Canadian DC8 crashed in the cabbage patch. I was sent out to make sure that the bonded stores were not nicked. That used to go on as soon as the rubber-neckers turned up, which they always did.. I remember a BOAC VC10 landing with nose wheel up, on a foam carpet on 28L. The flash was brilliant. Luckily nobody was hurt. And the BEA Vanguard, the BOAC 707, and the Ambassador with those poor horses. There was always a buzz about the old place, though, despite all the moans and groans. Far off days now, starting to fade away...

[HZ123]

Also remember when a light aircraft possibly a Cessna 150 was allegedly stolen from White Waltham flown in in the early hours of the morning and parked under the wing of our beloved ELAL 747. Pilot never identified and disappeared into the night.

Also on the South side via the Air India / Panam maintenance areas you could drive uninterrupted from the peri road onto the main runway. On the 1st Concorde take off a hundred or so private vehicles were parked on the grass areas adjoining the runway with picnics.

[BEagle]

Also remember when a light aircraft possibly a Cessna 150 was allegedly stolen from White Waltham flown in in the early hours of the morning and parked under the wing of our beloved ELAL 747. Pilot never identified and disappeared into the night.

It was actually a Chipmunk, stolen from Denham. It belonged jointly to William Hickey of the Daily Express and to London businessman Peter Tory who later flew it back to Denham.

It had been stolen in the early hours and had been flown low over buildings and traffic on the M4 before being landed on the grass at the airport next to RW27R.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

And when the Tower Supervisor rang the police to report a Chipmunk on the grass the police-type suggested he call the RSPCA hostel!

[Discorde]

regular arrival of a Seaboard and Western CL44 freighter (based on the 'whispering giant' Britannia)

Yes indeed, but with RR Tyne engines. Occasionally we plane spotters living in Isleworth noted strange behaviour of these aircraft when LHR were on easterlies - soon after take-off the engine noise would momentarily reduce significantly for a few seconds and then increase back to climb power.

When I joined the BEA Vanguard fleet some years later we learned that the BEA SOP had been similar, except that the power reduction was done at top of climb - something to do with 'offloading the splines' or some such. By the time we converted onto the type the problem had been solved and the SOP discontinued.

[Jhieminga]

I remember a BOAC VC10 landing with nose wheel up, on a foam carpet on 28L. The flash was brilliant. Luckily nobody was hurt.
Great to read these stories, but I'm particularly interested in the quote above. It's the first time I've heard of this, does anyone know more about it?

[DaveReidUK]

Great to read these stories, but I'm particularly interested in the quote above. It's the first time I've heard of this, does anyone know more about it?

I don't recall that one, nor this one that popped up a couple of days ago in the Air Canada/SFO incident thread:

A few years ago a 747 was cleared to land at LHR although an A320 was lined up for takeoff on the same runway. Daytime, visual; the A320's topside color happened to be gray, blending with the runway; its company's SOP was to have strobes off at that stage; so the 747 crew didn't see the A320 until the last minute ... but they did make it to stage 3 and went around from about 200ft agl.

Info on either/both welcomed. An A320 with a grey topside doesn't leave too many possibilities ...

[Discorde]

I remember a BOAC VC10 landing with nose wheel up, on a foam carpet on 28L

I believe a Lufthansa B720 also landed nosewheel retracted on 28R.

[Mr Oleo Strut]

Don't remember that. Britannias landing in any sort of a cross wind would bounce a lot, and Caravelles would sometimes have to use their tail parachutes. The crackle, smoke and flames from the Super Connie was always watchable, as was the same from the Carvair - Aer Longus, I think - on the north side. Saw a Strstocruiser once. As regards rarer types, I recall the Russians, particularly TU104s and others, hastily converted bombers with glass noses political commissars, huge stewardesses, dark and dreary Victorian-style cabins, and heavy-duty vodka on tap.Also a regular very smart DC3 from the West Country, and the occasional C46 Curtiss Commander. Can't remember whose. Executive jets hadn't appeared, but Fields ran a poshed-up twin or two I think, Ambassadors?, for Shell out of the old Hunting hangar at Hatton Cross I'm sure. There was also a chopper service to Gatwick but I don't think it lasted very long. How we all managed without decent rail access I really don't know. Noise, smoke and smells there were in volume. A lightly-loaded Comet 4 on full power must have woken the dead over Colnbrook, in fact I remember a BOAC ground engineer doing ground-power checks lit up all four on a Comet at the same time in error, and it was lucky the beast was chained down. Didn't do his career prospects much good. I always thought the BEA Vanguards were stately vessels, but they had a reputation for vibration, apparently. The lack of just about all on-board passenger frills was standard at that time and, of course, many people smoked in all its forms. I remember the pleasure and shock of hearing stereo piped-music in a seat on a Pan-Am 707 for the first time, while indulging in my first American club sandwich. Very nice! Aborted landings in poor weather were a bit of a shock as we didn't know about them until we heard the thunder in the gloom sbove us. I recall that the BEA Tridents were the first to do blind-landings. Favourite aircraft? Concorde of course, but that was later on.

[Mr Oleo Strut]

Great to read these stories, but I'm particularly interested in the quote above. It's the first time I've heard of this, does anyone know more about it?


On reflection it must have been 27R (Northern) one afternoon late sixties. I was in the old BEA bonded warehouse under their north-side catering base when the lads tipped us off that something was about to happen. We went outside - silence - then the fire engines appeared and laid a foam carpet right in front of us. Other vehicles, some medical, arrived. No sirens or other movements. It was still very quiet. Nothing in the sky. Word came down that a BOAC Super VC10 on a training flight with crew only was dumping fuel and coming in with nose-wheel retracted. Then we saw it, a distant dot to the east. It landed perfectly just over the threshold and he held it on its main bogies as long as he could while he slowed down, then he gently dropped the nose on to the foam. Neither the nose wheel nor the doors were down or extended. There was a mighty flash and a greenish streak of flame right in front of us but not for long. The nose settled and it was all over very quickly. He kept it straight. Nobody injured, but I can't remember how they towed the aircraft away. It was gone when I want home. I well remember that flash.

[Bergerie1]

Mr Oleo Strut,

I have sent you a PM

[Discorde]

The Lufthansa B720 incident occurred 14/08/62. The a/c landed on 10L (as was). Details here (https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19620814-0).

[treadigraph]

Seem to recall an Icelandic 720 having a nose wheel collapse at Heathrow around 1980.

[Brit312]

Mr Oleo Strut,
It was indeed a long time ago now when I was involved with the VC-10 [1965 to 1975 ] and the little grey brain cells are going fast, but for the life of me I cannot remember a VC-10 landing with the nose not locked down, but as I said the memory is fading fast.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I had a VC10 land with its brakes on! That was novel.

[arem]

I Think your VC-10 was the 707-436

[TCU]

I often play a game, perhaps to help me sleep or to assist while away some of the 11hrs I regularly spend winding my way south or north along the LHR-CPT line, which is to try and recall the various operators and/or various aircraft types on a typical mid 70's "spotters" day at LHR (complete with salmon paste sandwiches).

Here goes DC-8...Iberia, Air Jamaica, KLM, Swissair, Lofleidir, VIASA, Seaboard World, JAL, Thai, Alitalia, Air Ceylon, Finnair, Air Canada.....

The 707 is the king of this game.

The smell of kerosene, squeal of Darts, roar of Conways and crackle of my air ground radio, atop the high Queens building terrace, on balmy June care-free days, will stay with me for ever.

[treadigraph]

707 as I recall:

Regulars: Alia, BA, Pan Am, TWA, BWIA, Varig, Aerolineas Argentinas, Qantas, SAA, Air India, Singapore, Iraqi, El Al, Nigerian, TAP, Saudi, MEA, TMA, Egypt Air, Kuwait, PIA, Bangladesh Biman, BMA, Sudan, Ethiopian

Occasionally: Air France, Sabena, Aer Lingus

The odd exec aicraft - N108BN is one I recall which I think is now owned by a Mr Travolta?

[jensdad]

An A320 with a grey topside doesn't leave too many possibilities ...
Depends how many years ago it was. Could have been the previous BA or the current SAS livery. Qatar operated A320 series into Heathrow a few years ago as well.

[Mr Oleo Strut]

I often play a game, perhaps to help me sleep or to assist while away some of the 11hrs I regularly spend winding my way south or north along the LHR-CPT line, which is to try and recall the various operators and/or various aircraft types on a typical mid 70's "spotters" day at LHR (complete with salmon paste sandwiches).

Here goes DC-8...Iberia, Air Jamaica, KLM, Swissair, Lofleidir, VIASA, Seaboard World, JAL, Thai, Alitalia, Air Ceylon, Finnair, Air Canada.....

The 707 is the king of this game.

The smell of kerosene, squeal of Darts, roar of Conways and crackle of my air ground radio, atop the high Queens building terrace, on balmy June care-free days, will stay with me for ever.

Yes, such fond memories of the old Queens Building terrace. Spotter heaven, as was the perimeter road until they put up black plastic sheeting 3/6 feet of the ground on the wire fences around the best viewing sections to stop all the parking to view. We had to fight our way into work!

[Mr Oleo Strut]

Mr Oleo Strut,
It was indeed a long time ago now when I was involved with the VC-10 [1965 to 1975 ] and the little grey brain cells are going fast, but for the life of me I cannot remember a VC-10 landing with the nose not locked down, but as I said the memory is fading fast.

I must have seen the Flying Dutchman, or been breathing in too much kerosene!

[TCU]

707 as I recall:

Regulars: Alia, BA, Pan Am, TWA, BWIA, Varig, Aerolineas Argentinas, Qantas, SAA, Air India, Singapore, Iraqi, El Al, Nigerian, TAP, Saudi, MEA, TMA, Egypt Air, Kuwait, PIA, Bangladesh Biman, BMA, Sudan, Ethiopian

Occasionally: Air France, Sabena, Aer Lingus

The odd exec aicraft - N108BN is one I recall which I think is now owned by a Mr Travolta?
...Kenya Airways, Iran Air, Tarom, JAT, RAM, Olympic, THY, Cyprus Airways, Libyan Arab...

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Arem. THe aircraft I referred to was a VC10 - Ghana Airways. Maybe there was another similar incident with a 707

[DaveReidUK]

Depends how many years ago it was. Could have been the previous BA or the current SAS livery. Qatar operated A320 series into Heathrow a few years ago as well.

Well the report mentions the grey colour of the topside "blending into the runway", so it doesn't sound like the Landor Pearl Grey-cum-off-white.

But yes, it was the QTR A319s that sprang to mind, I can't think of any others that fit that description at LHR.

Assuming that's the case, it narrows down the timeframe considerably, so the incident would almost certainly have been between May 2014 and November 2015.

[treadigraph]

And of course the occasional VC-137!

[Bergerie1]

arem,

I agree. I'm pretty sure it was a 707-436.

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

I remember a BOAC Boeing 707 having nose gear retraction problems - base training at Stansted was it? It returned for a nose gear up landing on 28R. There had been a history of stiff nosewheel steering on this aircraft. Having jacked it up, dropped the nosewheel and towed it off to Tech Block A, detailed investigation found that something had been installed incorrectly on a recent maintenance check.

[DaveReidUK]

Well the report mentions the grey colour of the topside "blending into the runway", so it doesn't sound like the Landor Pearl Grey-cum-off-white.

But yes, it was the QTR A319s that sprang to mind, I can't think of any others that fit that description at LHR.

Assuming that's the case, it narrows down the timeframe considerably, so the incident would almost certainly have been between May 2014 and November 2015.

I suspect it's actually the April 2000 incident involving a BMA A321 (so blue, not grey) and a BA 747 that the OP meant.

The BMA was on the brakes at the 09R threshold when the BA went around, passing over the A321 at approximately 120' AGL.

Aircraft Incident Report 1/2001 (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5422ff7de5274a1317000a43/1-2001_G-BNLY_and_G-MIDF.pdf)

[chevvron]

I Think your VC-10 was the 707-436

Don't argue with HD; if he says it was a VC10 then it was!(Sorry don't know how to attach 'smilies')

[Jhieminga]

I remember a BOAC Boeing 707 having nose gear retraction problems - base training at Stansted was it? It returned for a nose gear up landing on 28R.
Could this have been the incident that Mr Oleo Strut referred to? It would make sense if it had been a 707 as the VC10 histories that are out there would certainly have mentioned an incident like this.

[kcockayne]

Don't argue with HD; if he says it was a VC10 then it was!(Sorry don't know how to attach 'smilies')

Well, he should know - shouldn't he ?

[Arriva driver]

It was indeed a 707-436 after training at Stansted. There is a video somewhere of the landing from the BBC news I think.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

There were a good few 707 u/c incidents - how about the one which suffered a main wheel collapse on the corner of the inner taxiway at Heathrow just by the G stands. It was fully laden.

As for the VC10 incident - how many of the "experts" on here were actually there when it happened?

[Arriva driver]

Regarding the 707-436 ex Stansted landing on 28R at LHR. the nose gear doors stayed open but no proper nose gear extension as it had not been properly assembled after maintenance.
I would need to check my logbook for the date, late 1960s would be about it - but I'm pretty sure it was March 31st as I was late home for my sons birthday party!

[DaveReidUK]

Regarding the 707-436 ex Stansted landing on 28R at LHR. the nose gear doors stayed open but no proper nose gear extension as it had not been properly assembled after maintenance.
I would need to check my logbook for the date, late 1960s would be about it - but I'm pretty sure it was March 31st as I was late home for my sons birthday party!

AAIB Investigation EW/C/162 (which, alas, I don't have a copy of) relates to an incident/accident involving G-APFP on 31/3/1967.

[Arriva driver]

That sounds like it - jeeps was it fifty years ago!!

[DaveReidUK]

A little more detail, courtesy of the excellent Pete Bish/Brian Piket book on the first 50 years of ATC at Heathrow:

G-APFP's nose gear had retracted with the wheels offset by a few degrees to starboard. When the gear was subsequently selected down, the port nose wheel lodged on the edge of the wheel bay and stalled the activating jack and the emergency lowering system.

Following the landing, a fire caused by burning magnesium in the NLG fairing was quickly extinguished by the AFS.

[26left]

I was on duty in the Tower, the night the Chipmunk landed on the Grass to the North of 28R. We never saw it and it was not until the North side Met Office rang the tower about 0615 and asked what the light plane was doing on the grass outside their office, that we became aware of the Chippie. There was no sign of the pilot and Passenger who had scarpered under the cover of Darkness. KCW was the watch manager, oh happy days.
Doug B

[Alan Baker]

Just a few more ramblings to add to my posts 49 and 50 about my time at LHR in Customs from 1962 to 1968, before memory fades and the new runway obliterates familiar places:-


I remember how quiet the then new Terminal 3 Oceanic was before and after the 'wagon trains' morning and evening. It was quite creepy, a huge building and nobody much about. Very handy for a quiet drink and a kip! Noise restrictions limited night flying but there was a regular arrival of a Seaboard and Western CL44 freighter (based on the 'whispering giant' Britannia) at about 3am which I liked to volunteer to go and clear. There were only three crew to deal with, the whole front of the aircraft hinged open



Ah! One of the rare front opening CL-44s.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

26left Glad you're still with us Doug. Happy Days indeed. Bren

[Brian 48nav]

How much longer of your sentence to serve? Brian W

[Jhieminga]

As for the VC10 incident - how many of the "experts" on here were actually there when it happened?
I was nowhere near, that's for sure. But I may be getting slightly confused here. Mr Oleo Strut mentioned a VC10 landing with the nose gear retracted on a foam carpet on the North runway, but from some of the responses I deduced that this may well have been 707-436 G-APFP on 31/3/1967.

You mentioned a Ghana Airways VC10 landing with its brakes set. That's another one that's new to me, but could it be that we're getting these two confused or was there also a VC10 that landed without an extended nosegear?

[WHBM]

Don't I recall the Russians, particularly TU104s and others, hastily converted bombers with glass noses
The Soviet types with glazed noses were a longstanding feature through to the earlier Tupolev 154s. It was actually where the navigator's station was, entered by a short tunnel in the middle of the console between the pilots, normally covered by a loose curtain. A substantial sextant was mounted in there, which more than one visitor mistook for a "spy camera" ! A hijack attempt once by an intruder trying to overcome the pilots was dealt with by the nav suddenly making an appearance from behind their curtain :)


ground engineer doing ground-power checks lit up all four on a Comet at the same time in error, and it was lucky the beast was chained down. .A BEA Comet 4B doing a similar power check did override the chocks, lunged forward, and crashed into hangar doors ahead, which fell forward onto unlucky Trident 'PI which was inside. It was repaired, but was lost shortly afterwards in the Staines accident, and initial investigation was whether the repairs had somehow failed.

[DaveReidUK]

A BEA Comet 4B doing a similar power check did override the chocks, lunged forward, and crashed into hangar doors ahead, which fell forward onto unlucky Trident 'PI which was inside. It was repaired, but was lost shortly afterwards in the Staines accident, and initial investigation was whether the repairs had somehow failed.

Interesting, I'd never heard of that one.

Papa India must have had a very unlucky life. Prior to the Staines disaster it had its tail chopped off in the 1968 Ambassador crash at LHR (which was also looked at as part of the Staines investigation).

So it sounds like the hangar incident may have happened while it was being repaired, or some time following its return to service in February 1969.

I remember doing 4-engine runups on Merchantmen where we were pointing at the hangars, but by the time I joined BEA (just as the last Comet was being retired) all the jet detuners were oriented so that aircraft pointed out towards the airfield, so no likelihood of any repetition.

[oftenflylo]

They might be with us, but their memory is fading.
The Comet over the Viscount chocks was 28Feb68=G-ARGM
The short landing VC15 was EastAf on 10L


oh 26L - I still have the Comet on it's belly pic TKU

[rog747]

707 as I recall:

Regulars: Alia, BA, Pan Am, TWA, BWIA, Varig, Aerolineas Argentinas, Qantas, SAA, Air India, Singapore, Iraqi, El Al, Nigerian, TAP, Saudi, MEA, TMA, Egypt Air, Kuwait, PIA, Bangladesh Biman, BMA, Sudan, Ethiopian

Occasionally: Air France, Sabena, Aer Lingus

The odd exec aicraft - N108BN is one I recall which I think is now owned by a Mr Travolta?

also
Olympic 707 and 720B
Air Mauritius
Syrian
Air Malta
MSA
Cyprus AW
JAT
Turkish
Iran Air
Kenya AW and Simba cargo 707
EI 707's and (720 in 1960's)
seaboard world
British eagle 1968
BCAL freighter
Tarom
Zambia
LLoyd
Malaysian
EAAC

[rog747]

Seem to recall an Icelandic 720 having a nose wheel collapse at Heathrow around 1980.

Iran air had a n'g collapse too so did LH and PIA i think

[bobclements]

Oleo Strut and Dockwell, the Stanwell pub is the Rising Sun. Loving this thread - I started straight from school (Windsor Grammar) in '68 in BEA cargo at Hangar 8, soon moved across to the then-brand-new Cargocentre and well remember legging it across to a small gate in the peri fence on many occasions to get to the pub. When I went back eleven years ago to witness the last Concorde departure I was pleased to note said gate is still there!

There was also the "Three Crowns" in Stanwell - I used to lodge there during the week when I was training at LHR.

[ZFT]

also
Olympic 707 and 720B
Air Mauritius
Syrian
Air Malta
MSA
Cyprus AW
JAT
Turkish
Iran Air
Kenya AW and Simba cargo 707
EI 707's and (720 in 1960's)
seaboard world
British eagle 1968
BCAL freighter
Tarom
Zambia
LLoyd
Malaysian
EAAC

Also Luxair with that hideous blue colour scheme

[dixi188]

And Lufthansa 707s

[Mr Oleo Strut]

Oleo Strut and Dockwell, the Stanwell pub is the Rising Sun. Loving this thread - I started straight from school (Windsor Grammar) in '68 in BEA cargo at Hangar 8, soon moved across to the then-brand-new Cargocentre and well remember legging it across to a small gate in the peri fence on many occasions to get to the pub. When I went back eleven years ago to witness the last Concorde departure I was pleased to note said gate is still there!

Ah, the Rising Sun, I remember. Only thing was it was a bit far for me from the central area or the north side. I used to go to the Air Hostess or the Three Magpies now and then, although the staff bar under the old control tower was nearest for a quick and cheap pinta. We weren't encouraged to use the Skyways or Fortes public bars, and they were far too expensive anyway.

I remember one big airline cargo warehouse, where the highly organized staff would sort out as many imports and exports as possible in the morning by working flat out until about 1pm, when a load of surplus food would arrive from the airline kitchens, after the consumption of which the warehouse would be locked up and the we would all retire to banks of old aircraft seats in the back of the warehouse for a good long siesta. By tacit agreement going home early was not allowed and everybody took advantage of a relaxed afternoon, including indoor cricket and football when the mood suited. Wouldn't do these days!

My duties in the Customs took me to some very quiet corners of the airport and its environs to oversee various bonded stores, including aircraft spares (how crude I thought much of the Russian stuff was, I used to think). It was always interesting to visit the vast BOAC maintenance base, the 'Kremilin', and cast an eye over the different aircraft there - remember the redundant Argonauts(?) lined up with nowhere to go? I had a friend who worked for the old CAA on planning, and he showed me original drawings for Terminal 2 which indicated parking spaces for no more than fifty cars. How did they imagine people would arrive and depart? Chauffeur driven limos, perhaps.

[WHBM]

original drawings for Terminal 2 which indicated parking spaces for no more than fifty cars. How did they imagine people would arrive and depart? Chauffeur driven limos, perhaps.
Actually, by airline coach from the town terminal. This was the accepted mode worldwide, people were not expected to make their own way to the airport. Most travellers were anticipated to be in central hotels, both before and after the flight. Few departures before 0900, where you likely are going straight from home, and not a high proportion at that time had a car available. Those that had them would find them unreliable after several days standing; UK airport parking provision still made the distinction between open and under cover (ie didn't get wet) into the 1970s.

There were of course taxis, whose charges were not as ruinous as nowadays, and some off-airport garages made a living from providing parking spaces. A garage, not just a car park. That meant they had a mechanic to get cars started again if needed.

Jack Bamford, UK manager for Air France both pre- and post-war, wrote that in the 1930s those travelling direct to Croydon airport were few and far between; they mostly came out in the airline bus from Park Lane, and were delivered to a comparable point in Paris.

[Level bust]

Even Autair operating schedules out of Luton during the late 60s had a terminal in North London (North London Air Terminal) at Finchley and run a bus service to the airport.

I assume they still used it to Heathrow when the schedules moved to Heathrow in about 1969, but was then closed down when they became Court Line.

[Mr Oleo Strut]

Actually, by airline coach from the town terminal. This was the accepted mode worldwide, people were not expected to make their own way to the airport. Most travellers were anticipated to be in central hotels, both before and after the flight. Few departures before 0900, where you likely are going straight from home, and not a high proportion at that time had a car available. Those that had them would find them unreliable after several days standing; UK airport parking provision still made the distinction between open and under cover (ie didn't get wet) into the 1970s.

There were of course taxis, whose charges were not as ruinous as nowadays, and some off-airport garages made a living from providing parking spaces. A garage, not just a car park. That meant they had a mechanic to get cars started again if needed.

Jack Bamford, UK manager for Air France both pre- and post-war, wrote that in the 1930s those travelling direct to Croydon airport were few and far between; they mostly came out in the airline bus from Park Lane, and were delivered to a comparable point in Paris.

You're quite right, I'd forgotten about the grey BEA/BOAC double-decker coaches and baggage trailers which brought pax down from the West London air terminal, wasn't it on the Cromwell Road?, which I never visited. And of course there weren't the airport hotels. Wasn't the round Skyways Hotel on the Great West Road about the first?

[G-ARZG]

BEA:West London Air Terminal,Cromwell Rd.

BOAC Victoria Air Terminal.

PAN AM Semley Place

TWA ??

'ZG

[seafire6b]

TWA = South Kensington


With the help of Google ("filming locations"), near the corner of Russell Road & Kensington High Street


.

[ZFT]

You're quite right, I'd forgotten about the grey BEA/BOAC double-decker coaches and baggage trailers which brought pax down from the West London air terminal, wasn't it on the Cromwell Road?, which I never visited. And of course there weren't the airport hotels. Wasn't the round Skyways Hotel on the Great West Road about the first?

My memory recalls it was called the Aerial Hotel?

[G-ARZG]

Ariel, now a Holiday Inn

[seafire6b]

Thinking back, I'd guess both hotels were opened around the very early sixties. The Skyway Hotel (now the Radisson Park Inn?) is across the Bath Road from the Three Magpies.

Then still on the Bath Road about a half-mile east, the circular-shaped Ariel Hotel, quite close to the Air Hostess pub opposite. If still there, I trust that's since been PC-renamed "The Cabin Attendant"!

[G-ARZG]

The 'Air Hostess' on north side of Bath Road, was knocked down in late 80's.
The site is now graced by the 'Golden Arches' of Mr McD.

[ZFT]

Ariel, now a Holiday Inn

Thanks. Almost correct recollection.

[pax britanica]

Don't recall a Stanwell pub called the Three Crowns and I grew up in the village there were several pubs for a small place .
Wheatsheaf, Five Bells, and Swan in the High Street , Happy Landing in Clare Road on the BA staff estate and the Rising Sun right by the perimeter road /cargo terminal . All go back way way beyond the airport except for the Happy landing which was built along with the estate
PB

[WHBM]

Even Autair operating schedules out of Luton during the late 60s had a terminal in North London (North London Air Terminal) at Finchley and run a bus service to the airport.

I assume they still used it to Heathrow when the schedules moved to Heathrow in about 1969, but was then closed down when they became Court Line.
Finchley Road rather than Finchley. It was near the Underground station of the same name. Autair services to Heathrow used the BEA-badged bus service into the West London Terminal (as did most European airlines)

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/ou68/ou68-03.jpg

North London Terminal was not only kept but expanded when they became Court Line, with charters only. They even bought out their Luton-based coach contractor and painted up the vehicles the same way as the Court aircraft fleet.

Britannia and Monarch also had road vehicle terminals in the same area, not sure if they were shared premises. In those days, for the significant number of leisure passengers without their own cars, airports like Luton or East Midlands were pretty difficult to access.

[rog747]

London air terminals

British eagle was in knightsbridge

and for LTN airport
i think monarch shared either court or Britannia's
Air Spain Aviaco and Dan Air used Court Line's KX air terminal

[Mr Oleo Strut]

Fascinating memories and corrections. Many thanks to all!

[SpringHeeledJack]

The Ariel Hotel, that's a blast from the past. I knew the long time manager very well and spent many pleasant evenings dining amongst the 'international jet set' feeling very grown up indeed.

J. Lyons & Co. (http://www.kzwp.com/lyons2/ariel.htm)

As an aside, if anyone wants to see one of the BOAC buses that used to bring passengers from London to Heathrow, there's one sitting outside the bus museum at Brooklands, where there's the odd aircraft as well :-)

[chevvron]

London air terminals

British eagle was in knightsbridge

and for LTN airport
i think monarch shared either court or Britannia's
Air Spain Aviaco and Dan Air used Court Line's KX air terminal

Isn't there a check in facility for Virgin flights out of Gatwick at Victoria Station?

[pax britanica]

SHJ
The Bath road Hotels did indeed lend a touch of jet set glamour to lads and lassies from the LHR area . As you say the Aerial with a nice bar was one and the other was the Sheraton (?) which had an internal tropical styled swimming pool along with suitable themed bar . My brother worked there and saw someone actually manage to do the classic accidental step backwards into a swimming pool in full business attire. It was a good place to impress young ladies on a wet misty February evening, especially as many of the traditional hostelries of the area were more suited to a game of darts or a bit of agro (in the vernacular of the day) than romance.

[PAXboy]

For the bus' search: ' BOAC Atlantean bus'
http://cdn.ipernity.com/143/74/01/32677401.e9aceb16.640.jpg?r2

and 'BEA Airport bus trailer'
http://www.yellins.com/transporthistory/Bus/bea1.jpg

[WHBM]

That BOAC bus was hired for the spectacular BA "To Fly To Serve" television advertisement of a couple of years ago where they had aircraft from the original DE Havilland biplane through to Concorde. It appeared in the background of the BOAC VC10 at Duxford. Looking at the picture above, it could well have been shot at the same time.

The BOAC buses were maintained by the airline itself at the MT garage on the Northside. The BEA ones were provided by London Transport from a garage at Chiswick. TWA also had double deckers, managed by coach company Halls of Hounslow. These are probably the least remembered, so here's a photo to add to the above.

[VictorGolf]

According to another flying forum the BOAC bus was back at Duxford today filming another commercial with the BOAC-Cunard VC 10.

[Dockwell]

Don't recall a Stanwell pub called the Three Crowns and I grew up in the village there were several pubs for a small place .
Wheatsheaf, Five Bells, and Swan in the High Street , Happy Landing in Clare Road on the BA staff estate and the Rising Sun right by the perimeter road /cargo terminal . All go back way way beyond the airport except for the Happy landing which was built along with the estate
PB

There was a pub in the cargo area near the bank (Barclays) and Post Office, cant remember what it was called though !

[BEagle]

According to another flying forum the BOAC bus was back at Duxford today filming another commercial with the BOAC-Cunard VC 10.

"We once took care of you and provided outstanding levels of customer service. But today we don't give a stuff - we just want your money and you can darn well pay for your own sandwiches...."

:mad:

[esa-aardvark]

Back in my mispent youth, remember many visits to the BEA terminal to get a feed. The terminal stayed open late (all night ?)

[Dockwell]

Changing the subject a bit, although I believe its used by a bus company so still sort of on track. I driven past this building near the new fire station airside many a time but today I was working close by and it took me as being quite out of place! does anybody know what it was used for in the past? I'm guessin it dates from the 60/70s

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4310/35348975634_d5ab59d6d5_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/VREJV9)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/VREJV9) by Eelmoor Farnborough (https://www.flickr.com/photos/eelmoor/), on Flickr

[G-ARZG]

...and a pint (or two) in the Comet Club in the WLAT basement?

[canberra97]

Isn't there a check in facility for Virgin flights out of Gatwick at Victoria Station?

As far as I'm aware Virgin Atlantic have never had a check in facility at Victoria Station.

The Central London Air Terminal at London Victoria Station was built for British United Airways and was officially opened on the 01 May 1962 it was later expanded by British Caledonian Airways, after the merger with British Airways in 1998 the Victoria Station check in facility was kept and was well patronised and other airlines including American Airlines and Delta were also using the facility.

After 9/11 with security concerns and a decline in passengers using the facility the British Airways Central London Air Terminal at London Victoria Station was closed in 2002 as part of a major restructuring of the airline.

[gruntie]

At the risk of thread drift, and in anorak mode, the full (or full enough) story of BEA's one-and-a-half deckers from the 50s is here:
http://www.countrybus.org/rf/RF6.htm
And the later Routemasters with trailers are here:
http://www.countrybus.org/RMA/RMA.html

[Boxkite Montgolfier]

The best regarded adjacent pubs for crews in 60's,70's and 80's were all in Colnbrook.
The favourite 'Ostrich', no doubt still reigns! We had a built in pub called the Star n' Gartar at King John's Palace, an old coaching inn, occupied by stewardesses and pilots.
The White Hart, closer to the airport was also much attended!

[rog747]

As far as I'm aware Virgin Atlantic have never had a check in facility at Victoria Station.

The Central London Air Terminal at London Victoria Station was built for British United Airways and was officially opened on the 01 May 1962 it was later expanded by British Caledonian Airways, after the merger with British Airways in 1998 the Victoria Station check in facility was kept and was well patronised and other airlines including American Airlines and Delta were also using the facility.

After 9/11 with security concerns and a decline in passengers using the facility the British Airways Central London Air Terminal at London Victoria Station was closed in 2002 as part of a major restructuring of the airline.


it was new security measures after 9/11 100% that knocked on the head the BA terminals both at Victoria plus the new one at Paddington built especially for LHR express train-
decline in numbers was not the issue afaik - if they were their today they would be well utilised by many airlines

[dixi188]

Dockwell.

The building by stand 594 would appear to have been for fuel bowser maintenance. If you look at GE for 1999 it is within the fenced area of Perry Oaks fuel farm before the changes for T5.
As for use now? Maybe still the same.

[treadigraph]

One bit of nostalgia for me was visiting the airport very early on a Saturday morning, probably in 1980.

After accompanying my sister through check in and waving goodbye to her at security, I wandered up to the top of the Terminal 3 car park at about 7am and was delighted to see the Kar-Air DC-6 thundering down 10R (as was), the only one I ever saw there (apart from the 50th anniversary flypast which I saw from Osterley). The day was further enhanced by the arrival of a Fred Olsen Electra, first I'd ever seen.

I missed the heyday of the propliner... :{

[pax britanica]

Boxkite,

You are quite right about the pubs in Colnbrook a tinny pace whose transport lin ks went back to the days of stage coaches with as you say some old and nice pubs. The ostrich i remember well and it was (is) truly a very very ancient place with all sorts of mythology about it. The White Hart is in Longford thus protected a bit from traffic (on the ground) and has special memories as it was the first date for me and the wife to be , 42 years ago!

Back on track you could set your watch by the Kar-Air DC 6 the last regular piston prop at LHR by many years. It operated most days as I recall and I think had a swing tail. Bit more variety at LHR back in the day.

[WHBM]

One bit of nostalgia for me was visiting the airport very early on a Saturday morning, probably in 1980.

After accompanying my sister through check in and waving goodbye to her at security, I wandered up to the top of the Terminal 3 car park at about 7am and was delighted to see the Kar-Air DC-6 thundering down 10R
The Kar-Air DC-6BF (they only had one, it was ultra-reliable) operated a Finnair cargo flight from Helsinki to Heathrow, Manchester, then back home. At this same time I was working in Manchester, and it regularly routed directly overhead the city centre, and me, (presumably after a 23 departure and a right turn) at about 0900.

you could set your watch by the Kar-Air DC 6Curiously there was a later DC6 operation the same. In the 1990s I regularly visited family for the weekend at the north end of The Wirral. Air Atlantique had a regular job with their DC6 on Manchester to Dublin Sunday newspapers, which left Manchester at 2300 on Saturday night, and came very punctually overhead, via the WAL VOR, probably just above MSA for the sector, about 20 minutes later. The R-2800s were audible for almost 10 minutes, and I always went outside to hear, and hopefully watch, it pass. When I didn't visit, just telephoned, I would learn that "I heard your old aeroplane go past last night". It normally returned direct to Coventry, but sometimes retraced its steps at about 0200. Funny how it woke me up again.


In much more recent times I caught up with the Air Atlantique crew, after they brought the DC6 into London City for its summer airshow, and they recalled the Dublin night newspaper flights. An interesting memory, of them hammering slowly along up there, and me down below watching them.

[pineridge]

Laker had a check in facility at Victoria.

[chevvron]

Laker had a check in facility at Victoria.

I'm sure Virgin used to have some sort of desk at Victoria Station; I remember the girls' bright red uniforms cut slightly too small!
Maybe it was just a desk to book flights/holidays; they had one of those in our local (Woking) Allders until it became Debenhams.

[Trinity 09L]

Andrew McCarthy a steward on board still resides in Windsor, and I have met him and on querying his flying career I asked if he was on 707's he told me his story in full. He did continue his flying career.:ok:

[Dockwell]

Dockwell.

The building by stand 594 would appear to have been for fuel bowser maintenance. If you look at GE for 1999 it is within the fenced area of Perry Oaks fuel farm before the changes for T5.
As for use now? Maybe still the same.

Actually come to think of it, I do seem to remember an ESSO sign on the side of that building when the trident was parked nearby, many thanks dixi

[Wander00]

many happy hours on the Poyle Trading Estate at Colnbrook, outside the mattress factory of the firm Dad worked for - whilst he was at Saturday morning sales meetings I was outside absorbing the reverberations of the many aircraft landing, virtually all with four large radial engines. Still makes me grin 65 odd years later

[Discorde]

Excerpts from my 1972 BEA diary:

http://steemrok.com/bea%20diary%201972%20v1

[Discorde]

Some more pix from days of yore (http://steemrok.com/LAPpix), dating from 1957 to 1968. Apologies for variable quality - some of the earlier photos were taken on a Box Brownie 120.

[vctenderness]

What’s the fat, ugly Frenchie?

[RedhillPhil]

What’s the fat, ugly Frenchie?



It's a Breguet Deux Pont.

[DaveReidUK]

Very nice photos. I particularly enjoyed those DC-7s.

[canberra97]

It's a Breguet Deux Pont.

The original forerunner of the Airbus A380 :-)

[DaveReidUK]

Strictly speaking, it's a Breguet Br.763 Universel, popularly known as the Deux Ponts (plural) - French for "double-decker" (literally, "two bridges").

Converted from the passenger Br.763 Provence, which must have been fun to fly on:

https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/shrinknp_800_800/p/6/005/0a2/36d/3551682.jpg

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

The Deux Ponts was the most abomination of an aeroplane known to man! But it provided a classic RT exchange at Heathrow shen it taxiied past a cul-de-sac in which a TWA 707 had pushed back:

TWA: Say what's that that just passed us?
ATC: It's a Deux Ponts
TWA: I don't care what you call it, it looks like a cow
DP: It may look like a cow but it flies like a bird!

[Allan Lupton]

The original forerunner of the Airbus A380 :-)
Closer than you'd think!
Early European collaborative work on wide-bodied aeroplanes led to the HBN 100, the partners being Hawker Siddeley, Breguet and Nord. When that came to nothing, we changed to Sud Aviation as our French partner and so the route to Airbus started.

[pax britanica]

The Deux Pont was highlight in my spotting days, sometimes a mundane DC4 was used . Even among piston props the DP seemed to have spectacularly poor performance . Using a lot of runway, relatively speaking ,and then seeming to not get above about 100 feet before disappearing into the distance. Other slightly scary performers from those days were Yorks, Carvairs C46s and the early C124 -single deck version that used LHR in the 60s . Of course when the early jets came along-comets excepted they were pretty good runway eaters too

Of course it looked pretty big then but as one is seldom able to compare planes from those days with today it was probably no more than a fat ATR72

PB

[Warmtoast]

Some memorabilia rescued from my deceased sister's travel bag - she was an avid traveller in the 1970s, 80s and early 90s.


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Buses%20to%20LHR%201991/Image1_zpsawpexkte.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Buses%20to%20LHR%201991/Image2_1145x800_zpszmjqliop.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Buses%20to%20LHR%201991/Image3_zpsmba1slt9.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Buses%20to%20LHR%201991/Image4_1135x800_zpstgcp7hip.jpg

[Mr Oleo Strut]

Strictly speaking, it's a Breguet Br.763 Universel, popularly known as the Deux Ponts (plural) - French for "double-decker" (literally, "two bridges").

Converted from the passenger Br.763 Provence, which must have been fun to fly on:

https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/shrinknp_800_800/p/6/005/0a2/36d/3551682.jpg

Well do I remember the challenge of boarding the Deux Ponts in the old days. I think they operated freighting services so when the aircraft arrived on stand and they wheeled the steps up to the little door at the back (or was it hinged upwards, or even downwards with the stairs inset?) and up I scuttled to clear the crew - I was in Customs, you see - then up the back stairs to the upper deck, trundle through the empty cabin past the galley, down the front stairs past the F/E and finally through a little door into the cosy compact cockpit to deal with Jean and Jacques. Yes, the old Bregeut was certainly a very interesting aircraft to me but what it was like to fly I have no idea.

[WHBM]

The Deux Ponts, alias the "Duck's Pants" to 1960s spotters, rather fell between stools, as did so many French propeller designs. Just 12 built in the mid-1950s for Air France, were used on flights down to North Africa. After the Caravelle displaced it, a few converted to freighters, though still with a small passenger cabin, the rest to the French Air Force (always the reluctant recipient of Air France premature cast-offs).

It appeared through the 1960s on an overnight freight flight that left Heathrow at about 2am. By this stage it was one of the few 4-engined pistons left there. Relative lived in Chertsey, described how what was obviously this aircraft used to hammer overhead at full chat in the middle of the night in a decidedly low level climbing (sort of) turn.

I never saw one there, but Air France did have an odd, non-daily, service into Bristol Lulsgate some evenings, on which this aircraft eked out its last days into the late 1960s. I recall seeing it one evening, from the A38 road, sat at the terminal. I think it could only take about 20 pax in the remaining passenger compartment, it was mostly for freight, in particular between BAC at Filton and Sud at Toulouse in the early days of Concorde development.

[l.garey]

I see from my notes that I spotted two Breguet Universel in April and May 1967, approaching LHR. I rather like their looks.

Laurence

[RedhillPhil]

I see from my notes that I spotted two Bréguet Universels in April and May 1967, approaching LHR. I rather like their looks.

Laurence

The front end looks quite nice but it looks like someone ran out of ideas at the back. Bit like the Comet which I thought looked like the jet age at the nose and the propeller age at the tail.

[treadigraph]

Never seen one - I assumed I must have as there would be one at the Musee de l'Air at Le Bourget wouldn't there - but there isn't! The three survivors are elsewhere in France...

Mind you, I've been darn close to the one at Fontenay-Trésigny!

[Geezers of Nazareth]

I've 'enjoyed' a beer sitting underneath the one at Fontenay-Trésigny! I seem to remember that after 'beer onload' under the wings, a 'beer offload/re-cycle' was accomplished using the facilities inside the aircraft.

(I've also sampled beers whilst sitting under a TU-104 in the Czech Republic, and also a Viscount in Germany).

[chevvron]

The front end looks quite nice but it looks like someone ran out of ideas at the back. Bit like the Comet which I thought looked like the jet age at the nose and the propeller age at the tail.

You're thinkng of the Caravelle by Sud Aviation; they did copy the Comet design for the front end of that(and by the way, did you know they originally tested the design on a Horsa glider to see if it worked?)

[Allan Lupton]

You're thinkng of the Caravelle by Sud Aviation; they did copy the Comet design for the front end of that(and by the way, did you know they originally tested the design on a Horsa glider to see if it worked?)
A voice from the (Hatfield) back row says "They didn't - but we did!"

[RedhillPhil]

You're thinkng of the Caravelle by Sud Aviation; they did copy the Comet design for the front end of that(and by the way, did you know they originally tested the design on a Horsa glider to see if it worked?)



No, I'm definitely thinking of the Comet. Sleek and pointy a the front but upright and round at the rear( I'm referring to the tail and tailplanes). The Caravelle was sleek and pointy at the front and sleek and swept at the rear.

[pax britanica]

I dont think Sud Aviation copied the Comet nose design as much as they used exactly same design with DH agreement since it was a proven design why change it.

As for the poor old DP it would have looked Ok without that ludicrous bulge cum fin at the back. The outboard fins are pretty cool looking actually . It certainly looked lot better than a York which looked like it had an old greenhouse grafted onto the front for cockpit windows

[eckhard]

Strictly speaking, it's a Breguet Br.763 Universel, popularly known as the Deux Ponts (plural) - French for "double-decker" (literally, "two bridges").

Yes, "pont" certainly can mean "bridge", however; in this context it means, literally, "two decks". If you ever travelled on a Brittany Ferry, you would remember the decks being referred to as "ponts".

"Pont" can also mean the axle of a car.

You "faire le pont" if you take a holiday on a Friday following a national holiday on the Thursday, i.e. take a long weekend. Ditto for taking Monday off before a national holiday on a Tuesday.

[WHBM]

I dont think Sud Aviation copied the Comet nose design as much as they used exactly same design with DH agreement since it was a proven design why change it.

As for the poor old DP it would have looked Ok without that ludicrous bulge cum fin at the back.
The original Caravelle nose design was not only with DH "agreement", it was a design subcontract to DH, and the first couple of Caravelle noses were actually built at Hatfield and shipped over.

This lasted through the production of the Caravelle III and VI-N. The VI-R was developed for the United Airlines order, with thrust reversers, where the FAA had a fit about the prospect of braking parachutes blowing around US airports (I wonder if the likes of Varig, who ran the earlier versions to JFK etc, ever dared to deploy them there). The FAA also took against the nose design, on the grounds of insufficient visibility for the flight crew, so the VI-R, and subsequent models, had a restyled nose with much larger windows and also changes to the contours a bit.

The ventral fin on the Deux-Ponts, like many such on aircraft, was not there on the prototype until it was discovered that the fin/rudder gave insufficient authority under engine failures, etc, so it was added to address this. It does of course also add to drag. A perpetual feature of designs in the 1930s-50s was developing the prototype with an inadequate tailplane, and having to make production changes to address this.

[BEagle]

Which reminds me of the archetypal 'Bloggs to QFI' question:

"Sir, why does the F-15 have twin fins?"
"Glad you asked me that - it's (waffle waffle) to improve lateral stability (waffle waffle) in the transonic region...(coloured pens...white board) - any questions?"

"Sir, is that also why the Shackleton has twin fins?"
"Err....bugger."

[chevvron]

A voice from the (Hatfield) back row says "They didn't - but we did!"

Sorry badly written on my part; by 'they' I meant De Havillands not Sud!

[Buster15]

On the point of Heathrow nostalgia I remember when I was 10, we had been living in NY as my father had been a service rep on the Bristol Britanna with BOAC. The NY Idlewild airport was so modern especially the TWA building. In 1961, we flew back to the UK on a 707 and landed at Heathrow.
The difference was incredible as the passanger arrival was a TENT. I was too young to understand why but still remember the massive difference between Idlewild and Heathrow.

[Hussar 54]

Talking of the Deux Ponts reminded me of a post in the VC10 thread about seven or eight years ago...

Anyone have any background about who / what / when / etc ?

Double-deck VC10 - foldout page 1 (http://www.vc10.net/History/DDVC10_FOpage1.html)

[Jhieminga]

Hussar 54, if you stay on my site and go one level 'UP', you will find the answers to some of your questions: The Double-Deck Super VC10 (http://www.vc10.net/History/doubledeck_super_vc10.html)

[pax britanica]

WHBM

I used the word agreement about DHs role in Caravelle nose as I wasnt sure of the exact arrangement-what I meant was it was not a copy but a rational decision .

Thanks for the info on the DP tailplane layout, wasnt it the Tudor that grew hideously ugly and tall fin after the prototype had flown a few times.

I thought the Caravelle had a piston era fin too- a swept back version would have looked cooler.

Back in the I always wondered why Caravelles with two Avons seemed to sound louder than Comets with four. They certainly made a racket if you were a schoolboy in the tiny school house in Stanwell just a few hundred yards from 28L 10R

[Wander00]

OK, have to ask, any pictures of the Horsa with the Comet nose......

[l.garey]

Horsa with Comet nose: top picture in this link

http://crimso.msk.ru/Images6/AI/AI55-12/29-1.jpg

Found in a (mainly modelling) Key thread https://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?123015-Airspeed-Horsa-series
See posts 2 and 6 on that thread.

Laurence

[chevvron]

I had an 'Eagle' annual dated about 1958 and there was a photo in there taken on the ground showing how they fitted it (on hinges)

[Mr Oleo Strut]

So they've recently found a memory stick in the gutter with all the current LHR secrets on it including emergency access points, evacuation plans, tunnels, and all in plain-text. Beggars belief but reminds me that in the 60s after all the evening birds had flown you could have walked a small army across the airport and nobody would have turned a hair.

I remember a bit of a scandal when some workers found that people were sleeping in some of the communication tunnels and all of a sudden properly lockable doors were fitted. I also remember that pumps operated 24/7 to keep the main access tunnels dry and I assume that that still carries on. Funny old place, not the same without Queen's Building or the old Terminal 2. Now I wonder if the additional runway is in jeopardy (again!).

[chevvron]

So they've recently found a memory stick in the gutter with all the current LHR secrets on it including emergency access points, evacuation plans, tunnels, and all in plain-text. Beggars belief but reminds me that in the 60s after all the evening birds had flown you could have walked a small army across the airport and nobody would have turned a hair.

I remember a bit of a scandal when some workers found that people were sleeping in some of the communication tunnels and all of a sudden properly lockable doors were fitted. I also remember that pumps operated 24/7 to keep the main access tunnels dry and I assume that that still carries on. Funny old place, not the same without Queen's Building or the old Terminal 2. Now I wonder if the additional runway is in jeopardy (again!).

Even bigger scandal that day just after dawn when they found a Chipmunk (nicked from Denham?) parked.

[Hussar 54]

Hussar 54, if you stay on my site and go one level 'UP', you will find the answers to some of your questions



Yes....Thank You....I've read all the pages quite a few times over the past few years as I'm still fascinated by something of which I was totally unaware until almost 45 years later.

It's just that since then, I've always wondered how serious this project was.

Was there really any serious interest from possible / potential customers, or was the project already too far ' behind ' the twin aisle offerings which were already being developed by Boeing, Lockheed and McD D to have found a place in the market ?

Back to the Heathrow interest, I didn't get to Heathrow very often but always did and still do remember what an absolute delight it was to see a few VC10s - the only ones I'd seen before my first visit were on my occasional visits to JNB. And Many Thanks for your VC10 site, by the way.

[HZ123]

Let us not forget that there was an incomplete tunnel adjacent to the main tunnel upon entry to the CTA that went towards Hatton Cross. I believe that in the late 60's it was accessible somewhere around TBE?

[A30yoyo]

On the point of Heathrow nostalgia I remember when I was 10, we had been living in NY as my father had been a service rep on the Bristol Britanna with BOAC. The NY Idlewild airport was so modern especially the TWA building. In 1961, we flew back to the UK on a 707 and landed at Heathrow.
The difference was incredible as the passanger arrival was a TENT. I was too young to understand why but still remember the massive difference between Idlewild and Heathrow.

Well they had replaced the tents with prefabricated concrete sheds by about 1947 but it sounds like you and your father were some of the last to pass through the austere old Northside before the centrsl area T3 opened in 1961

[Jhieminga]

Was there really any serious interest from possible / potential customers, or was the project already too far ' behind ' the twin aisle offerings which were already being developed by Boeing, Lockheed and McD D to have found a place in the market ?
I think it was a bit of both. There was certainly interest in a larger VC10, as evidenced by the initial specification for the Super VC10. From Vickers' point of view, they had a large design staff and it is important to keep a department like this busy to avoid having to lay off people. So when they ran into problems selling the VC10 they tried their best to come up with as many variants as possible in the hope that this would attract a new order. As we know by now, this did not happen unfortunately.

From BOAC's point of view, they certainly looked at larger capacity airliners but remember that this was a point in time when there was no 747/DC-10/Tristar in sight yet. Taking on such a double-deck behemoth was a huge risk and obviously they were not happy enough at that point to order any from Vickers. I think that although the thoughts about the wide-body types that would eventually fly were already well advanced in Seattle and the other design departments in the US, it was too soon for the UK to commit to such a large project.

[Four Wings]

Let us not forget that there was an incomplete tunnel adjacent to the main tunnel upon entry to the CTA that went towards Hatton Cross. I believe that in the late 60's it was accessible somewhere around TBE?

Do you mean the cargo tunnel? I used to drive through it in 1973 when visiting Shell's aviation fuelling terminal (I worked for Shell Aviation Division at the time, with the grand title of Head of Operations Economics).

[Wander00]

Laurence - many thanks, thought I had seen everything, but a Comet glider - takes the biscuit!

[DaveReidUK]

Let us not forget that there was an incomplete tunnel adjacent to the main tunnel upon entry to the CTA that went towards Hatton Cross. I believe that in the late 60's it was accessible somewhere around TBE?

The two entrances either side of the main access tunnel used to lead to short tunnels that emerged on the aprons.

I believe that once the piers were built and they became unnecessary, they were subsequently used for storage (and may still be, for all I know).

[chevvron]

The two entrances either side of the main access tunnel used to lead to short tunnels that emerged on the aprons.

I believe that once the piers were built and they became unnecessary, they were subsequently used for storage (and may still be, for all I know).
I'm sure I saw taxis using them in about 1970 when I worked at the north side radar station.

[canberra97]

Correct.

The two small tunnels either side of the main tunnel have been in use for decades and are used by taxis.

It must have been along time ago that you last visited Heathrow if you hadn't noticed.

[SpringHeeledJack]

.....and by bicycles and motorbikes, although it would seem that both are no longer welcome in the central area.

[gruntie]

I remember them being bicycles & pedestrians(!) only, in the mid-60s: motorbikes must have been later.

[Sygyzy]

Canberra97,

And a long time since you were there too if you believe that DaveReidUK is talking about the two old bike/pedestrian tunnels. These have always been there running parallel to the main tunnels. They were made available for cars and taxis years ago to increase the flow. That's why there are free buses around the airport cos you can't access the Central Area any other way. No bikes nor pedestrians allowed.

Now...back to the apron access tunnels and their former and current us. Anyone?

S

[ExSp33db1rd]

Do you mean the cargo tunnel?

A "cargo" tunnel did indeed exist on the other side of the airport. One day, the BOAC flight crew were taken from the BOAC HQ car park to the central area via this tunnel for some reason. The Capt. had his wife with him in the crew transport, as she was flying with him on a Staff Ticket on that occasion.

They were stopped at the entrance by a security officer speaking in an accent that could have put him from that large island to the West of England, the Southern part of which doesn't form part of the UK. He examined the crew identity passes, and then announced that Mrs. Capt. was not allowed through the tunnel, which was not available for passengers, staff and crew only.

No manner of identification from ticket, passport, Capt's declaration would persuade this guardian of LHR. that the lady should pass. Eventually, when tempers and commonsense were getting fully exhausted, this genius noted that the crew transport was holding up the then RailAir Link bus from Woking Station, full of passengers off a B.R. Train. Tell you what, Sir, he said to the Capt. your wife can get out of the car, on to the bus, and on the other side she can get off the bus and into the car again.

That happened, LHR Security is well secure in hands like that.

[treadigraph]

I used to occasionally get the bus from Hatton Cross tube to the CTA via the cargo tunnel. One morning a catering truck had got stuck in there after its scissor jack mechanism jammed the back against the roof.

[DaveReidUK]

Canberra97,

And a long time since you were there too if you believe that DaveReidUK is talking about the two old bike/pedestrian tunnels.

Thanks for clarifying the confusion. I wasn't, of course.

But now we're on the subject of the parallel tunnels:

That's why there are free buses around the airport cos you can't access the Central Area any other way. No bikes nor pedestrians allowed.
I seem to recall a few years ago when cycles were banned from sharing with the taxis (there used to be a cycle lane marked down the middle, and taxi drivers got the hump when they were stuck behind a bike) HAL assured everyone that the cycle ban was going to be temporary. There was some chat about it on PPRuNe at the time. Now it seems it's permanent.

Now...back to the apron access tunnels and their former and current use. Anyone?Quite.

[Wander00]

Many years ago we teenagers used to cycle through the tunnel for the bowl and airside!!! coffee. Those were the days

[treadigraph]

I cycled through the northern pedestrian tunnels several times in the early '80s, can't recall being chased down by taxis, but then I was pretty quick in them days! It was quite a nice ride over from Purley via Banstead and Hampton Court.

[SpringHeeledJack]

If I remember correctly the side tunnels were for pedestrians and cyclists up until a certain point, then the 'IN' tunnel became a de-facto Black Cab entry conduit from the then holding pool/rank up to the side of 27R above the tunnels and then somehow motorbikes were in the mix with fewer pedestrians and cyclists (assuming that the majority had been airport workers) and they seem now to have been closed for maintenance since a few years.

[Reverserbucket]

Pedestrian and cycle access is now prevented for security reasons - registered vehicles can be monitored through the ANPR system in place outside of the tunnels and inside the central area. The cargo tunnels are still used with their apron access shafts continuously monitored for security breaches. There are other tunnels as well, which may be what has been alluded to in earlier posts, which were opened again a few years ago during the construction of the new T2 after many years of disuse to reveal some interesting historical artefacts from LHR's past.

[DaveReidUK]

Pedestrian and cycle access is now prevented for security reasons - registered vehicles can be monitored through the ANPR system in place outside of the tunnels and inside the central area.

So as a pedestrian, I'm more of a threat if I jump on my bike than if I hop on a Number 285 bus ?

How so ?

[DaveReidUK]

HAL assured everyone that the cycle ban was going to be temporary. There was some chat about it on PPRuNe at the time. Now it seems it's permanent.

I can't find the thread, but Google reveals that the current Heathrow statement that "There is currently no direct cycle route to Terminals 2 and 3 due to construction work to the main road tunnel" dates from around mid-2015:

Cycling | Getting to Heathrow by bike | Heathrow (http://www.heathrow.com/transport-and-directions/cycling)

AFAIK, there has been no subsequent statement that the cycle ban is now permanent or indefinite.

[canberra97]

Canberra97,

And a long time since you were there too if you believe that DaveReidUK is talking about the two old bike/pedestrian tunnels. These have always been there running parallel to the main tunnels. They were made available for cars and taxis years ago to increase the flow. That's why there are free buses around the airport cos you can't access the Central Area any other way. No bikes nor pedestrians allowed.

Now...back to the apron access tunnels and their former and current us. Anyone?

S

Just responding to your first sentence, actually the last time I was at LHR was on Sunday 29 October 2017!.

[Reverserbucket]

Originally posted by DaveReidUK
So as a pedestrian, I'm more of a threat if I jump on my bike than if I hop on a Number 285 bus ?Not quite Dave, more to do with monitoring and threat management - the central bus station, LU/HEX, MSCP's, drop off points etc provide for congregation in places with provision for maximum surveillance. Can't really say more than that other than we live in a very different world to the one when the Spur tunnels were built.

[DaveReidUK]

Not quite Dave, more to do with monitoring and threat management - the central bus station, LU/HEX, MSCP's, drop off points etc provide for congregation in places with provision for maximum surveillance. Can't really say more than that other than we live in a very different world to the one when the Spur tunnels were built.

Happily, security considerations notwithstanding, I have today been advised by Heathrow that cycle access to the CTA is expected to be restored in late summer/autumn 2018, with the side bore of the outbound tunnel becoming a two-way cycle path.

[wiggy]

So as a pedestrian, I'm more of a threat if I jump on my bike than if I hop on a Number 285 bus ?

It does seems that way, despite or perhaps of reversers explanation, "they" do seem to have it in for pedestrians. I found out recently that if you read the signs carefully it would appear you are no longer "allowed" to walk from T5 to Longford via the western section of the perimeter road, and in fact one of the pedestrian crossings that used to facilitate the same has been blocked off to prevent pedestrian use....(yes, I know the first reply will start with "but why would you want to...."

[SpringHeeledJack]

A bit of fresh-ish air, DVT reducing exercise, and a visit to The White Horse. Luuverly!

[treadigraph]

Happily, security considerations notwithstanding, I have today been advised by Heathrow that cycle access to the CTA is expected to be restored in late summer/autumn 2018, with the side bore of the outbound tunnel becoming a two-way cycle path.

Sadly I'm beyond cycling from Purley to Heathrow. Not physically, well, a bit, it's just my enthusiasms are more "local" based!

[chevvron]

Sadly I'm beyond cycling from Purley to Heathrow. Not physically, well, a bit, it's just my enthusiasms are more "local" based!

Maybe you should just cycle to London (Croydon) instead!

[ExSp33db1rd]

I cycled through the northern pedestrian tunnels several times in the early '80s, can't recall being chased down by taxis,

I used to take a motor-bike through those tunnels without any problem. circa late '50's.

[treadigraph]

Maybe you should just cycle to London (Croydon) instead!

It's just over the hill... as indeed am I.

[22/04]

I seem to recall Dad parking outside the tunnel and walking though to the Queen's Building in the sixties. Were spectators not allowed to park in the central area then or was he just saving a bob or two.

[Discorde]

This Roy Cross piccie dates from 1957 and shows two open air car parks in the Central Area and what looks like a bus/ coach station between the tunnels and the QB. I have no recollection of this though.

http://steemrok.com/visc%20over%20LHR%20central

[gruntie]

In 1973 I was able to park a Transit van in the “overheight vehicle” park in the central area. Just a bomb site: all sorts of coaches & trucks were in there. No idea exactly where it was, though.

[Trinity 09L]

In 1973 I was able to park a Transit van in the “overheight vehicle” park in the central area. Just a bomb site: all sorts of coaches & trucks were in there. No idea exactly where it was, though.

Not for long, when did the Army move into the CTA and the perimeter? Unable to remember which group lobbed a mortar.:eek:

[Skipness One Echo]

It does seems that way, despite or perhaps of reversers explanation, "they" do seem to have it in for pedestrians. I found out recently that if you read the signs carefully it would appear you are no longer "allowed" to walk from T5 to Longford via the western section of the perimeter road, and in fact one of the pedestrian crossings that used to facilitate the same has been blocked off to prevent pedestrian use....(yes, I know the first reply will start with "but why would you want to...."

The issue here is the that bridge over the water doesn't have a pavement and so people lugging heavy luggage over it aiming to get to the hotels may have been the issue. I have happily ignored them for months and the security patrols drive merrily past.

[chevvron]

Not for long, when did the Army move into the CTA and the perimeter? Unable to remember which group lobbed a mortar.:eek:

I can remember a period in '78 when the Army were stationed round the perimeter road. My wife worked in Queens Building at the time and I drove in the first day they were there to pick her up; a popular place for spotters under final for 09L was full of armoured personnel carriers (must have annoyed the spotters).
It wasn't 'til we drove home that I remembered I had my air rifle in the boot so it's lucky they weren't doing 'stop and search'!

[javelinfaw9]

One thing that I’ve always been curious about.
In the early to mid 1970s on short final for 26R.
In the field just behind where a multi story car park is now located.
Abeam the BA B747 hangars, behind a berm.
Used to sit the derelict fuselage of a Royal Canadian Air Force Beech 18.

Does anybody know how and why it came to be there.
Where did it come from?
And where did it go.

Any ideas?

Well remember the wreck. Think the reg was 418. Had postwar RCAF white paintwork with Red Lightning cheat line. This was in the grounds of the "Lapwing" Club which I believe was the Customs and Excise social club. Where the Multi storey now is was Magnatex Spark Plug factory . Sorry don`t know how it got there or where or when it went. Still there in c1979.

[chevvron]

Well remember the wreck. Think the reg was 418. Had postwar RCAF white paintwork with Red Lightning cheat line. This was in the grounds of the "Lapwing" Club which I believe was the Customs and Excise social club. Where the Multi storey now is was Magnatex Spark Plug factory . Sorry don`t know how it got there or where or when it went. Still there in c1979.
I thought the 'Lapwing' club was the BAA Heathrow flying club; operated out of Denham with Beagle Terrier G-ARUI?

[southender]

Slight thread drift, but G-ARUI is still alive and kicking, currently hangared at Stow Maries (well it was in July when I was there). Not sure how often it flies due to the very severe restriction on movements at Stow Maries and the owners love of his Tiger Moth.

[JW411]

Sagittair operated Beech 18s from Heathrow in the 1970s.

[rogerg]

Sagittair operated Beech 18s from Heathrow in the 1970s
I still have the scars to prove it!

[southender]

The following took place no end of times in the late 1950's.

Myself, brother and friends would set out from home in Ilford about 7.30 a.m. usually at weekends but also during the week in school holidays, armed with thermos flask, sandwiches, notebook, pens/pencils, Ian Allen ABC Aircraft Registration books, 20x Liebermann and Gorst binoculars (purchased for £10 at Simple Simons secondhand shop in Manor Park) and Mum's old box Brownie camera, later up-graded to something a little more modern.

Walked to Ilford station, caught the train to Stratford, changed to the Central line to Holburn and then the Piccadilly line to Hounslow West where we caught the 81b bus (upstairs of course) to London Airport as it was called then, arriving in time for the opening of the rooftop spectators terrace on the Queens Building at 10 a.m. After a days spotting we retraced our steps, arriving home sometime after 8 p.m.

During the day anything was likely to be spotted from Dakotas to Stratocruisers and, of course, towards the end of the 50's early jets such as BOAC's Comet 4s, Pan Am's 707s and Aeroflot's TU104s were beginning to become commonplace. Exotic arrivals, such as Air India Super Connies or Aerolineas Argentinas always caused excitement although my favourites were always the Air France Constellations or Super Constellations pulling on to the central stands in front of the Queens Building.

I seem to recall that it was very quiet during the early afternoons, with sometimes 15 or 20 minutes between arrivals before the afternoon rush started at about 4 p.m. from when there was always something to view through binoculars on approach. Funnily, landings were almost invariably from the East above the BEA maintenance hangar, which made for good binocular viewing.

On one occasion we did cycle to London Airport, through the City and West End, out along the Bath Road, detouring along the south side of the airport to the Hunting Clan hangar, where amongst other aircraft I was able to photograph the TWA Fairchild C82 Packet 'Ontos'. We then cycled back through the tunnel to another viewing area which was to the left of the tunnel, at the northern end of the central area apron, which was a perfect spot for photography.

The advent of work and girls meant that it was not cool to be an aircraft spotter any longer and that period of my life came to an end, although I still have the Ian Allen books, binoculars and many photographs I took in my collections, although sadly the thermos flask met a shattering end when dropped on a station platform. My love of Propliners is still with me though and I still try to photograph any that I come across in my travels.

Those were the days.

[chevvron]

Sagittair operated Beech 18s from Heathrow in the 1970s.
Now you mention it, I saw one depart from 23L at about 2am one night on my one and only visit to Heathrow VCR in 1971. (Four of us were on a night duty at LATCC West Drayton and instead of getting our heads down to return to duty at 3am, we decided to go to Heathrow!)

[SpringHeeledJack]

Does anyone remember the PanAm Mx hangar next to the Hunting hangar on the south side of LHR ? There was a cafe (Kaff) also painted blue for the workers amongst others and you could just wander in there and partake of the offerings as a paying customer. I can remember going up to a B707 sticking out of the hangar in Biman colours, no reg and kicked the tyres (as you do). It didn't end well for my toes only protected by a thin layer of plastic leather trainers. When you consider the security nowadays, it was nearly nonexistent back then!

[BEagle]

southender, what a great post! How lucky youngsters were back then to have been able to have such exciting days out at LAP!

[Discorde]

Essential for all spotters - but which year was this edition issued?

http://steemrok.com/civairmark%20v4

[treadigraph]

I'll have a guess at 1958?

[renfrew]

I still have mine -1960.

[WHBM]

I wonder where that Tu104 shot was taken.

Looking at what I think is a significant hill on the left, it's not at Heathrow. There also aren't that many hills in western Russia, which is pretty pancake-flat, so not a publicity shot from Aeroflot. Any ideas ?

[Airbanda]

Is the distance board alongside the runway any clue?

[l.garey]

Discorde (post 242): this was 1952

[SpringHeeledJack]

Might it be taking off from Zurich Kloten ?

[l.garey]

If that Viscount is taking off, I pity the poor marshaller just in front of it. I assume it's London Airport (pre-LHR days). I still have the records of what I spotted there.

Laurence

[WHBM]

Might it be taking off from Zurich Kloten ?
The only "western" points Aeroflot served before 1960 were Copenhagen and Vienna. I presume Copenhagen is too flat. Any prospect of Vienna ?

[WHBM]

it was like a vintage train car inside with curtains and table lamps.
Funny how we have gone back to that with grand fitouts of F long-haul cabins.

He also said the stewardesses were ugly as sin with thighs as thick as tree trunks He was given Aeroflot vodka glasses as a gift, that I still have.Anyone who has travelled to Russia will know this does not describe the elegant young ladies of today.

However, in deep Soviet times only a certain set would be even considered for any travel to the west. You had to be married and established, with children, all back in the Soviet Union, hence not in your first strands of youth. No chance of travelling together. The children would be looked after whilst away by their grandparents, they had to be around as well. A complete, established family expecting you home. The same applied to all the men as well. Overnight even for flight crews was not in hotels, but in dormitory accommodation at the Soviet embassy, where all the clocks were kept, and the meals served, in Moscow time.

Aeroflot still have vodka and (Russian from Dagestan) cognac glasses, and caviar, in C, even on LHR-Moscow. It's a notably class act.