Joint European Armed Forces

[Halton Brat]

Ok, that's it. The sight of JCB's eating Nimrods is too much for me. I never dreamed that someone like me:

(ex-RAF 24yrs, Fast Jets/SH/Trainers/Maritime/cut me in half & letters RAF visible etc)

would say this, but here goes:

1. The UK Armed Forces have been over-stretched by Blair & his egotistical ambitions (quote: "I feel the hand of history on my shoulder").

2. The present Government, as if to compound the above, are embarked on a 'scorched earth' policy unequalled since the Soviet retreat on Moscow in WW2.

3. The lost skills/knowledge/expertise in many areas will be impossible to replace. The generational 'inheritance' is broken. This particularly true in the Maritime area (is this not an island nation, with all that that implies?).

4. Was the blood of our forefathers shed in order that the very liberty that they suffered to defend may be exposed to such peril in an increasingly dangerous world?

Therefore, I feel that if we can't afford to do the job properly (we are not alone in this), we should push towards Joint European Armed Forces in a highly integrated format.

There. I said it. God (& Lord Trenchard) forgive me.

[TBM-Legend]

you are witness to the United States of Europe Defence Force being born...

[Green Flash]

you are witness to the United States of Europe Defence Force being born...
..... as long as we lead it, the Germans organise it, the French do the catering and the Cloggies provide the ents!:):ok:

[Whenurhappy]

Err, don't we have NATO?

[Green Flash]

United States of Europe

ie sans Colonials :} Might even get Ivan joining too?:uhoh:

[Halton Brat]

I'm advocating totally integrated European armed forces; Command structures, equipment procurement, role allocation, uniform, ranks - the whole 9 yards. To do anything less would be just as much of a mess as we have now, & just as much of a drain on treasure.

You may find it hard to believe that I am generally against the growth of the European super-state; I just feel that it is inevitable that we are drawn in this direction. I predict that by the end of this century, these things will have come to pass.

[NutLoose]

Joint European Armed Forces

Would like to sit in at that meeting........

Ok Uk PLC, you as a Maritime Nation, what can you bring to the table?

maritime patrol aircraft?............. ahhhh no

Carrier force?...............ahhhhhhhhh no, But.... erm.. no maybe...erm no

Transport fleet?..... Ahhhh yes..... we have Tristars in most parts of the world....... Ahhh good we can use those........ well erm maybe.... we will see if we can get one servicable. Well you do have a fleet of VC10 transports.....ahhh erm sorry we can't carry erm passengers on those....

:p

[Spanish Waltzer]

........and who would control Gibraltar:confused::confused:

[Wensleydale]

Back in the days of the Cold War (Early 60s?), a multilateral nuclear deterrent force was discussed. It was called the MLF (Multinational Force), and UK, US, France and Germany would provide mixed nationality crews for the Nuclear Missile Firing submarines. It never went ahead, but perhaps the experiment was best explained by the satirical singer, Tom Lehrer, who wrote a suitable song.....

THE MLF LULLABY

Sleep baby sleep - in peace you may slumber
No danger lurks, your sleep to encumber.
We've got the missiles, peace to determine
And one of the fingers on the button will be German.

Why shouldn't they have nuclear warheads,
England says no but they are just sore heads
I say a bygone should be a bygone.
lets make peace the way they did in Stanleyville and Saigon.

Once all the germans were warlike and mean
But that couldn't happen again.
We taught them a lesson in 1918
And they've hardly bothered us since then

So

Sleep baby sleep in peace you may linger
Just hope your buddies don't give us the finger.....
MLF - may scare Bresniev,
I only hope he's half as scared as I.


Even although MLF did not go ahead, a similar current force exists - the NATO E-3A Component at Geilenkirchen where the NATO AWACS is flown by mixed multilateral crews. It sometimes has its limitations, but has provideed a very expensive capability to the member nations for nearly 30 years. It can work and perhaps it shows a way ahead?

[Ronald Reagan]

Death to the EU

[Green Flash]

It's allready started (http://www.euroairgroup.org/)

[Rigga]

I have known of the EDA (European Defence Agency) for a few years.

Today I received notification of the formulation of pan-european military technician training regulations being drafted into EMAR's (European Military Airworthiness Regulations) and it looks very like being EASA-based.

Whether kicking-and-screaming or not it looks like you'll all be merging with our euro-brethren at some time in the future. Just like the rest of us!

[BIG MACH]

I would rather fight them, as my grandfather did, than merge with them!

[RookiePilot]

European Defence Force?
Beats fighting for the bloody Yanks!

[Green Flash]

EuroCorps (http://www.eurocorps.org/home_page/home.php?lang_default=ENG) - we're halfway there allready!