Rough idea of how many instructor briefings you need during training?

[davebowyer]

G'day all

I'm 5 weeks out from starting my training towards my PPL. I've received some pretty good costing estimates from my club about how much this is all going to cost me and I have a pretty realistic overall expectation of cost. (I've spent about $2k so far on the CASA paperwork, medical, headset, ERSA, AIP, study materials, blah blah blah - before I even step inside the clubhouse! And am expecting at this stage to spend another $18k or so - I'll be flying from the outset in a Piper Warrior as the C152 is too small for me :rolleyes:).

However ... one thing I hadn't budgeted for is instructor briefings. I met with my prospective instructor on Saturday, who alerted me to the need for these. Makes 100% sense. In the case of my flying club, briefings currently come at $65 a pop. Anyone got any idea roughly how many of these sessions you need in the 60-80 or so hours of training to achieve PPL? I'm fervently hoping that you don't need a briefing for each and every one of these hours that you fly ... :confused:

[Fonz121]

I' m not sure I fully know what you mean. Briefs should be included in the cost of your lesson.

At all the schools I know of, you pay the hourly rate for the aircraft and the brief that goes with that lesson (straight and level for example) is included.

But maybe times have changed.

[TSIO540]

You should expect to have a long nav brief before any of your nav's. I would estimate it will take around 5-8 hours depending on the instructor, and your level of knowledge.

You should then also anticipate at least 1 hour of briefing prior to each nav which would typically be 10 as a minimum if you make the standard on each one...

So a good benchmark to start with would be 18 hours of briefing.

P.S Whilst briefing time may be expensive, it is much cheaper to get a briefing on the ground than in the air!

TSIO540

[rmcdonal]

There are 2 types of briefings, Short and Long.
A short brief is used before each flight to discuss what is going to happen for that flight. It is generally 15 or so min, and generally is not charged. This does not include Navigation.

A long brief on the other hand is about 45 min long and covers the theory for each type of flight:
Operations and effects of controls,
Straight and Level,
Climbing and descending
Medium level turns,
Stalls
Basic Circuits,
Advanced Circuits,
Forced landings,
Emergency circuits,
Advanced Stalls,
And I'm sure a few more I can't remember.
You would need to ask the flying school if they do these briefs (some don't, some give a very crappy version, others expect you to read and learn it yourself).

You can probably expect about a dozen or so briefs with one really big Nav brief (as in 4-5hrs).

I would suggest that the more you do on the ground, the less you will have to do in the air. And the ground rate is going to be a LOT less then the flying rate.

[davebowyer]

Thanks for everyone's quick feedback. Some very good points. I will clarify the point with my instructor. I suspect what he's telling me me is that in addition to the short briefings for each flight I need to do a number of the long briefings that everyone's mentioned here. I'll plan and budget for them to be on the safe side. :D

[Jack Ranga]

Dave,

If the briefings are not included in the lesson you should be paying a little less per hour for the aircraft, compare this to other organisations.

I think it's probably a good idea for them to be charged out separately. It will lessen the temptation for the instructor to take shortcuts in the brief.

(they bloody well should be anyway)

Depends on the aircraft hire rate you are paying doesn't it?

Have a think about it, if the instructor is getting paid the (casual) award, 1 hours flying plus what should be covered in the briefs would end up at around $25 bucks an hour :ugh: Not good.

[Jack Ranga]

Cynical,

There will always be crap instructors & instructors who take shortcuts on briefs, that's aviation. I would struggle to get any brief done in 15 mins.

You aren't going to get any charter work with a bare CPL I'm afraid. Choices are fairly limited.

[Nadzab]

Dave,
Briefings should be included and charged as part of your training.
If there is any concern with your training provider consider using a provider that uses a fixed upfront payment method.

My thoughts is that you are being milked. Well done for raising this question.

There are many quality flight schools out there..... and then there are some others.

[Mark1234]

If there is any concern with your training provider consider using a provider that uses a fixed upfront payment method

Consider... and move on! I'm fairly sure that 99% of folks here would recommend you never EVER pay upfront. Especially large sums of money that you'll never get back if anything goes awry..

[43Inches]

daveboyer,

If you had recieved full costings from the club then it should include all estimates including the briefing charges, if they are applicable.

If the briefing fee applies to normal pre and post flight briefs then you will pay quite a large additional amount moving well into many thousands of dollars at $65 per hour. If the charge is just for significant briefs and theory such as study sessions for BAK then that is normal.

When I was a casual instructor many years ago I only charged for long briefings such as the initial nav brief and theory tuition. Most of the time it was easy to get 3 or 4 students together for these briefs and share the cost between them unless they were impatient and then they bore the full cost.


Pre and post flight briefings are normally included in the lesson price (they bloody well should be anyway).


They are not normally included in the lesson cost, the instructor especially if casual is normally delivering them free of charge. A casual instructor would normally only be paid for services charged and that is usually VDO time whilst training at the normal hourly rate, not one increased to cover briefs, pre-flight, sitting around answering phones etc... It would be good if most students appreciated that unless the instructor specifically requests payment for the brief then however long it is they are recieving a free service.

Full time instructors can have greater pressure to not spend a long time briefing as the company may have a minimum flight hour policy which must be maintained or they full back to casual employment. So this may not solve the problem either.

My thoughts is that you are being milked. Well done for raising this question.

Being fleeced is quite possible if you are new to flight training, however there are a number of instructors I know that I would gladly pay the extra cash because of the quality of training provided. The difference in quality of instruction could cost a lot more than $65 an hour at the end. Just consider what an additional 10 hours at dual rates costs.

And never pay up front unless you recieve some benefit from doing this such as a discount in rates etc.. you are better off having the money earning interest in your own account.

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

If you don't want to pay for briefings, either expect a higher per hour charge for the aircraft or bugger all preparation before flying. Briefing is essential and considering a commercial pilot is limited by duty time, why shouldn't briefing be charged?

What you as a student can do is study the textbooks and training material provided beforehand. This will minimise the amount of time spent explaining something about which you have no idea if you couldn't be bothered doing any study.

[anothertwit]

I for one never paid for any briefings, long or short. Nor did i pay for any study help (that's what rainy days at the club are for). Sounds like your getting milked Dave! I would do some searching around and see what other clubs and flight schools have to offer.

You aren't going to get any charter work with a bare CPL I'm afraid. Choices are fairly limited

you should say you aren't going to get any charter work on the coast in a nice big city with a bare CPL!

I know it's been said in threads before but there really needs to be an hour/experience limit before your allowed to teach people something you've only just learnt yourself and have had no real experience in using!!! :ugh:

bit off topic at the end there! sorry Dave. :hmm:

[Jack Ranga]

Oh Dave, one more thing,

Ar$eholes.......like opinions, everyone has one :ok:

Be careful who's advice you accept :ok: