A plea to BA ground staff

[Chuchinchow]

Please, please, please do not treat passengers as so many parcels or live cattle. Please, please, please remember that the money we have paid for our fares goes to pay your salaries. Please, please, please remember that we (the passengers) are the sole reason you (the ground handling staff) are in work and earning money.

We do not want to be called from the lounge or elsewhere to the gate with the announcement that boarding has commenced, and upon arrival at the said gate find that it is not even open.

Please do not tell us it is because you need to have all the passengers rounded up and ready to board. After a few times this defeats the object of the exercise. Regular passengers will not dutifully roll up for your all-too early summonses, because they know you will not start the boarding process for at least another 15 minutes, and we do not like standing in a small area, queuing or otherwise.

Passengers are forced to queue enough as it is when travelling. For example, the queue to check in, another queue for security, a queue to buy currency, queues to get on and off the aircraft, a queue for border controls, a queue for baggage (unless on a day trip - which means I have hand baggage), a queue for taxis. I think you get the picture.

Our time is just as valuable as yours is and you are not doing us any favours at all by condescending to "allowing" us to fly with your employers.

Do not bully elderly passengers with threats of denying them boarding because they have the temerity to ask why they are being kept waiting and when they will allowed to actually board the plane they have been waiting for. Their command of the English language and British Airways' arcane boarding procedures may not be as good as yours.

(This message was inspired by the truly appalling behaviour of two totally self-satisfied and utterly complacent women in BA uniforms at gate Axx at T5 on Friday morning last.)

[profot]

That, along with other reasons, is why I go out of my way not to fly with BA. It is not until you start flying with the other airlines you realize what a dinosaur BA really is

[frontcheck]

Whilst I do not condone bad customer service have you ever thought they may be pissed off with being blamed for all the points you yourself are complaining about?
Queues at checkin - staff numbers cut to the bone (if you are short staffed you get on with it , no minimum levels like crew have)
Queue at security - Staff employed by another company
Queue at currency exchg - Staff employed by another company
Queues to get on/off aircraft - because no-one listens and just want to be first on and off
Queue at border control - Staff employed by Government
Queue for baggage - it can take a while to get bags from aircraft depending on stand and other a/c pushing back stopping you reaching the baggage hall
Queue for taxis - What can I say it's another company.
Unfortunately queues are a part of airport/aviation life these days.
One of the reasons you are called to gate early is to try and get everyone in place for when boarding commences, even a small delay can have a huge knock-on effect to the operation and cost a lot of money.

[KBPsen]

May I ask which company you work for, Chuchinchow?

I may have done business with it and should that be the case I just want to make sure that my name is spelled correctly on your pay-check, you see.

Then I will have a good moan about how -since everything is not perfect all of the time- everything is not good enough all of the time. I always feel taller and better after having propped myself up by putting others down.

And now back to the re-run of Upstairs, Downstairs.

[Chuchinchow]

May I ask which company you work for, Chuchinchow?

You most certainly may, KBPsen. I work for myself.

Baggersup

Got it in one!

[Abusing_the_sky]

Please, please, please remember that the money we have paid for our fares goes to pay your salaries. Please, please, please remember that we (the passengers) are the sole reason you (the ground handling staff) are in work and earning money.I'm not ground crew, but last time a passenger (he was rather .... rude, to put it mildly) said " I pay your wages" to me, I laughed it off and told the Captain the story while serving him his tea; minutes later, a "ding dong" in the cabin was heard so off I go to answer the flight deck's call. Only for the Captain to tell me that he's been calculating the said pax's contribution to my wages/year. After taking into consideration (all in average) price and profit of/on (not in a particular order): fuel/landing fees/catering/ parking fees/ ticket price/ pax charge (is it 10 euros in DUB these days?)/ crew salary/ number of pax ( he mentioned a lot of figures and fees - really clever guy, miss flying with him), turns out that a pax's contribution towards my wages was, at the time, exactly 17pence. So he called me into the flight deck, gave me a 20p coin and asked me to give it to said pax as a full refund of his contributions towards my wages with Captain's compliments!

Let me make one thing clear. YOU don't pay our wages. You merely contribute towards our wages, if that... Put it this way, you pay for an airline ticket, I'm crew on board, by purchasing your ticket you contribute towards my wages and so on...
BUT! As I get off the aircraft, I pay to rent your car/ buy a ticket to ride the bus you're driving/ pay tax to the council and you're a public servant/ pay tax to the NHS and you're a paramedic/ and i could go and on and on and ON!

Don't be such a patronizing little so and so... We ALL pay each others wages, somehow.

Quote:
May I ask which company you work for, Chuchinchow?
You most certainly may, KBPsen. I work for myself.

Good for you, with your attitude business must be blooming! :ugh:

[Joao da Silva]

Tighslot appealed for more intelligent postings, so let's try to provide one:

After taking into consideration (all in average) price and profit of/on (not in a particular order): fuel/landing fees/catering/ parking fees/ ticket price/ pax charge (is it 10 euros in DUB these days?)/ crew salary/ number of pax ( he mentioned a lot of figures and fees - really clever guy, miss flying with him), turns out that a pax's contribution towards my wages was, at the time, exactly 17pence.17p x 72 million pax per year = £12,240,000 margin. (Mind you, I think the captain missed a few important costs and salary was double counted), if you look at the bigger picture.

Then there is the matter of payments from airports to Ryanair, for that passenger to arrive at their destination (shouldn't we all descend down a red carpet, if we are sooo valuable?)

Plus inflght sales, car hire, hotels, that the airline gets a slice of.

So customers are revenue streams and employees are overheads, in the final analysis.

Abusing the Sky does make one true point, though, that we are all interdependent for paying each others wages.

It's just that most businesses do not

bully elderly passengers with threats of denying them boarding because they have the temerity to ask why they are being kept waiting and when they will allowed to actually board the plane they have been waiting for.
As a regular user of Terminal 5, I have to agree with Baggersup and CCC about the local knowledge required to navigate it

In particular, the apparent inability to announce gates ahead of time, so that one does not encounter the A/B lounge dliemma, as well as the Magical Mystery Tour that is A10, so remembering

Their command of the English language and British Airways' arcane boarding procedures may not be as good as yours.is a core competence, IMHO.

[Hokulea]

That, along with other reasons, is why I go out of my way not to fly with BA. It is not until you start flying with the other airlines you realize what a dinosaur BA really isIt's all a matter of perspective. I usually fly with AA but due to their recent codeshare agreement with BA I've ended up on a few trans-Atlantic flights with BA. I now worry about AA because BA's service blows AA out of the water and suspect many US-UK commuters might change their loyalties. In any case, I understand I'm coming from the lowest common denominator but you have to consider that BA still has a long way to fall to get to US airlines' levels.

[moses30u]

If you feel that badly about it, why don't you do something about it, other than rant on here. Use yer feet.

To spout on about how you pay peoples wages, really makes you sound like a jumped up little $%^&.

BA use our oil - does that mean they pay my wage?

[etrang]

Chuch, did you write to BA and explain what happened? I think that would be a much more productive use of your time.

[Chuchinchow]

Good for you, with your attitude business must be blooming!

It hasn't been this good for a long time, thank you. Turnover has increased by 37% over the same period in 2010, so we must be treating our clients properly.

You see, our secret is to keep our clients totally informed of what is going on. If we need to ask them to do something we tell them why, when and how. If there is any change in plan they are informed in good time.

We do not keep our clients in the dark, we offer them the respect they deserve, and we do all possible to keep them.

Clients, customers - passengers even - are always aware that is THEM who have the choice of using the company or organisation that serves them best.

If not, they take their business elsewhere.

[Chuchinchow]

Chuch, did you write to BA and explain what happened? I think that would be a much more productive use of your time.

Indeed I did.

I await BA Customer Services' usual anodyne, neutral, and ever so slightly missing the point response that BA send out to any criticism.

[Betty girl]

Chuchinchow,

Just out of interest, why do you keep on using us and have you used any other airlines recently or any other LHR terminals.

You see you seem to hate us as an airline.

I know you hate cabin crew like me commenting on threads like this but just was interested to hear your reasons for sticking with us.

Thanks Hokulea for those nice comments about BA.

[Chuchinchow]

You see you seem to hate us as an airline.

I know you hate cabin crew like me commenting on threads like this but just was interested to hear your reasons for sticking with us.

Betty Girl

It is telling that you have used the word "hate" twice in one message.

I neither "hate" you as an airline, nor do I "hate" cabin crew like you or anyone else. British Airways is neither worse nor better than any other air transport company. It is very noble of you to spring to your employers' defence at every possible opportunity, but not every employee is necessarily as dedicated and as zealous as you are in maintaining customer goodwill.

Please, Betty Girl, remember PPRuNe's cardinal rule: kick the ball, not the player.

[Betty girl]

Well sorry that you see my post like that.

The only reason I used that word twice was because that feeling oozes out of a lot of what you post.

Having said that, I do find you quite amusing at times and so would miss it if you didn't post.

[Ancient Observer]

Service delivery requires everyone in the chain to respect their role in the chain and to respect the customer.
Whilst BG clearly delivers her part of the bargain, it does happen in BA that other folk do not always deliver their part of the bargain.

As to "who pays wages", er, it is simple. Whilst I have not said that to people in the service sector, the fact is that some folk in the service sector can forget the customers' perspective some times.

I guess there are exceptions, where everyone delivers great service, but the whole team do need to work at it.

[surely not]

Churchinow perhaps I can pass on a little anecdote and see if that will alter your thought process..........

Over a 10 years period some time back my father averaged a flight as a passenger every 10 days. He flew a variety of airlines in UK, Europe, USA and Canada, and having had an interest in aviation all his life was probably more clued up about how things worked than most who fly.

When I started working for an airline in the mid 70's I quickly realised that he actually didn't know too much about the whys and wherefores of an airport operation. It caused quite a few interesting discussions between us at first. There are a multitude of difficulties placed in the way of the simple process of getting passenger checked in and to the boarding gate, and very few are there because of the airline(s)

As a passenger it isn't necessary for you to know everything about how it works, in the same way you don't have to know exactly how a power station is manned and managed in its operation. Obviously it is necessary to give you information re flight status in good time. 'Flight Boarding' or similar such as 'Gate Open' are generic terms used to put it in the passengers mind to get to the gate.

One of the most frustrating delays is 'late passengers to the boarding gate'. It is bad enough when it is only two or three, but if over 15 then it is a big problem. Unfortunately passengers have so many distractions on the way to a boarding gate (coffee shops, shops of all sorts etc) that it happens way to often.

Have you wondered why staff who arrive new to the company keen and eager to do well and good at interfacing with customers can fade into 'processors'? Alas a lot of the passengers who now fly are bored with the experience and maybe even dislike it. They just want to get the flight over with with as little interaction with others as possible. So after a few years the bright and cheery staff member learns to keep low key and minimalist in the way they deal with passengers. Sad but true. As with many areas in life, the ability to interact is removed by the need to be 'efficient and productive'.

I agree there are some bad staff in all companies, and there are some good staff having a bad day perhaps............... but whilst BA is not my airline of choice I do think you have gone over the top in yr criticism and the comment re paying their wages is a bit of a red herring as you only pay a small proportion and not everyone feels as you do.

I think I am right in saying that the year that BA won the 'Worlds Favourite Airline' award, they also finished top of the list for the least favourite! They just carried so many more passengers than most others.

[jimtherev]

Everyone seems to be ignoring what I assume really got Chu-ey's goat:
Do not bully elderly passengers with threats of denying them boarding because they have the temerity to ask why they are being kept waiting and when they will allowed to actually board the plane they have been waiting for.
Once we've flown from T5 - or any major - once or twice, we realise that we are being processed, which I don't like, it makes me feel like a piece of cheese. But when agents behave as unprofessionally as
the ... two totally self-satisfied and utterly complacent women seem to have been doing, then surely there's reason for complaint?

Isn't there?

Anyone want to address that?

[Lord Bracken]

At T5 my strategy is always to arrive at the gate (this is assuming the flight is on time) slightly less than 10 minutes before the 'gate closes' time on the boarding pass. I find this means most people have already boarded and you are also 'protected' from them closing the flight without you on board.

However, exceptions to this are
- domestics when overhead space is at a premium
- longhaul from T5B where they normally have a seperate line for Club, First and Silver/Gold which works pretty well.

However I take the OP's point that T5 is a bit of a nightmare for a first-timer, but as soon as you learn how to use it properly it becomes very efficient indeed. But you need to learn!

[Skipness One Echo]

If you think T5 is bad now , wait until T5C is up and running

There will be a Hell of a lot less bussing which is good but I agree with the above. T5 works well with those who are familiar......

[fincastle84]

I imagine that out troops fighting a war in Afghanistan would be horrified at having to face the terrors of T5. Phew, they're lucky, they only have to avoid land mines on a daily basis & then endure a delay of 7 days waiting for a u/s C17 to get them home again!

Come on guys, get a life.:ok:

[Joao da Silva]

I imagine that out troops fighting a war in Afghanistan would be horrified at having to face the terrors of T5. Phew, they're lucky, they only have to avoid land mines on a daily basis & then endure a delay of 7 days waiting for a u/s C17 to get them home again!

Come on guys, get a life.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

That is one of th emost inappropriate comments I have read on here for a while.

[Skipness One Echo]

We saw A10B on the lounge screen and without much thought decided we needed to go to the B concourse

Unfortunately T5 is (built on) a pile of sh1t in many ways. It quite literally stands on the site of the former Perry Oaks sewage works and so is something of an improvement on days gone past. If you think air pollution is bad today then think back to a summers day with a prevailing wind from the west......

Anyhoo in typically British fashion, the only way to get most (not all) of the BA operation onto the site was the modular satellite approoach as opposed to the more traditional piers. Hence 50+ pier served stands with four remote parking stands isn't a bad result. However as site access was very constrained and the building project was massively controversial and political, it's a compromise between what we'd like and what you can shoe horn in there. Conformance also means of you are not presenting your boarding card at security at ETD -35, you miss your flight. This is because of the epic trek needed if you need to catch the train but also means if you're on a domestic from the 500s you're still screwed alas.

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-FDF68F0AE4EDF12F9C0572D684F6FB6B/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/AD/AIRAC/EG_AD_2_EGLL_2-4_en_2009-10-22.pdf

Biggest criticism is there's not enough room at security alas.
Having said that, if you know you learn quickly how to get past the shops there's an ocean of space and many quiet friendly corners where one can read or work. Even the tannoy announcements are strangely relaxing and old fashioned.

[fincastle84]

Well I guess that I've been lucky during all of my transits through T5. Mind you, as a retired Nav. I am able to find my way around quite easily.:rolleyes:

My only gripe is the quality of the wine in Galleries, definitely not what it used to be.

[gr8tballsoffire]

There are quite a number of relevant points here. Whilst it is true that some gates in T5 are quite a distance away it is still by far the best major terminal in the UK.

Travelling through any airport terminal involves a process where inevitably you have to pass a number of hurdles. It can be incredibly frustrating when there is a hold up at any of those points.

In a past life I worked for BA in T4 and our punctuality was pretty dreadful. When we analysed the reasons for the causes of delays it was found that the two main causes were passengers doing last minute shopping and exec club members leaving the lounge late.

Since BA moved the majority of it's operation to T5 punctuality has improved beyond recognition and it now has one of the best records amongst European based carriers despite LHR being one of the worst run airports.

Churchinchow's experience of witnessing the kind of appaling behaviour can not be condoned and whether the staff involved were having a bad day is no excuse.

Can I suggest that best way to deal with it is to report it to a Duty Manager immediately (time allowing) as well a formal complaint with full details such as time, place, names.

I can assure you that those complaints ARE followed up and the culprits disciplined if warranted.

Thanks for the tip about gate 10A/B, I am due to travel out of T5 next week and
hope to avoid it!!

Betty Girl, I enjoy reading your posts and despite havig left the company over ten years ago I am equally loyal to BA. It is the best company I have been with and the best group of colleagues I had the pleasure to work with.

BA is always easy pickings for criticism as the flag carrier, but when people have tried other airlines they can see that BA compares favourably with the majority of it's competitors.They do,however need to keep improving their product and customer service standards to compete with some of the Middle and Far East airlines. Hopefully the cabin crew dispute will be settled soon and everyone in BA can pull together again.

[fincastle84]

Hopefully the cabin crew dispute will be settled soon and everyone in BA can pull together again.

To my way of thinking the fact that BA has managed to provide such a good service despite Bassa's best efforts is indeed a fine tribute to the remainder of BA's staff.

T5 will continue to get better. Let's remember that it's not BA's fault that the other 2 satellites haven't yet been built. Anyone who is totally fed up with BA/ T5 always has the option of enjoying the various delights of T3!

[Lord Bracken]

fincastle makes an excellent point. Every time I travel through the hellhole of T3 (and BA are to be congratulated for having some of the best lounges in that terminal as well) I remind myself how lucky I am that I spend most of my time in T5.

[Tigger_Too]

When we analysed the reasons for the causes of delays it was found that the two main causes were passengers doing last minute shopping and exec club members leaving the lounge late

Let me tell you about an occasion en-route back from the Middle East to Brussels through Terminal 4. The Brussels flight was delayed, and I was waiting in the Lounge. Eventually a new departure time was posted. This was in the days when the Lounge staff made a boarding announcement, but I was keeping a very close eye on the screens. Twenty minutes before the revised departure, there was still nothing on the screens, but I decided to move to the Gate anyway. I checked with the Lounge reception, and was told that no, it was not boarding yet. Just as I moved away from the desk, the screen changed to 'Boarding Now', and I heard the first Lounge announcement as I walked away towards the gate. I arrived at the gate 15 minuted before the revised departure to find the doors closed. "No I could not board, and my bags had been offloaded". They did put me on the next flight, but that was a further delay I could have done without!

So be careful about blaming passengers for leaving the lounge late.

[gr8tballsoffire]

Tigger Too

Like any business BA is not immune to making mistakes, or not dealing with the situation to everyone's satisfaction. I believe they get it right more often than not.

It is not a blame game, but a fact that flights were regularly delayed due to lounge passengers arriving late at the gate for whatever reason. The distance to the furthest Victor Pier stands was another contributing factor and as a result of the analysis you may have noticed the number of "time to gate" signs that appeared around the terminals to highlight the need to allow time for the walk. In those days my office was located on the V pier and believe me I had no need to join a gymn after walking to the main terminal offices for several meetings most days.

T5 is a breeze compared to that!!

Delays are not only costly to airlines, but inconvenient and annoying for passengers.

[runway24]

BA lost all credible rights to be known as the National flag carrier when it became London Airways.

[gr8tballsoffire]

Runway 24

You've got me, I have no idea what you're talking about. If not BA than which carrier do you suggest and why?

[SLFLurker]

As a non premium pax who has only flown domestic through T5 (so far) I have to point out that the information given out on the public screens is also lacking and sometimes late.

Both times I've flown through T5 in the past year, the gate information for my flight has only gone up at the last possible moment (or so it seems). Luckily both times it was on the main concourse and I didn't have a panic getting to the satellite gates. Luckily I'd also asked at the customer service desk and had an idea about where it was likely to be going from.

After reading this thread I'm not looking forward to my transit from my NCL flight to my LAX flight in April...

[ExXB]

Baggersup.

Since T5 has only one airline, BA, using it - wasn't your eJ friend talking about BA? I have heard of BA transit passengers being told they had 'missed' their connections, before taking the escalator up to security, if they were within the designated period of time. (Which I also heard was 40 minutes).

However IMHO this is NOT the way to solve the real problems. It just lets them lie (telling only part of the truth is one of the better ways to lie - RH) about their performance.

After a decade of poor treatment by BA staff (mostly on the ground, but occasionally in the air), being xxx'ed around by strikes, etc. I have voted with my feet. Never again. I was gold for much of that decade as well.

Swiss and their Skyteam buddies now get my money - and no, they are not perfect, but they are consistently better than BA and their One World friends.

[Lord Bracken]

BA have increasingly good mobile services. For example, the latest version of the iPhone app shows T5 gate information which is a bonus (especially when sitting in the lounge it saves you having to get up all the time to check the screens).

[Basil]

Without wishing to condone rare examples of rudeness to passengers:

Business Travel Awards 2011 - Winners 2011 (http://www.businesstravelawards.com/btawinners2011.asp?m_pid=0&m_nid=36192)

Best Long-Haul Airline
British Airways

Best Airline Worldwide
British Airways

Joao da Silva,
I think the comment by fincastle84 was an example of irony ;)

[frontcheck]

Do not forget "The best airline when not on strike" category - an ouright winner there :D:D:D:):):)

[Joao da Silva]

I think the comment by fincastle84 was an example of irony

I got that.

I didn't like very brave people being used in this context.

[Avionker]

Just a shame that politicians don't show the same distaste for using those brave people to make their points....

[Katamarino]

I think fincastle84 falls into that unfortunate category of people who like to compare an operation to the worst possible example, and think "wow, aren't we doing well" rather than comparing it to the best-in-class and thinking "wow, look at all the things we could do to improve". It's that kind of thinking that is responsible for most of what is wrong in this world, in my opinion! :ok:

As for BA; I have found them to be great in the air, and worse than useless on the ground...

[PAXboy]

KatamarinoAs for BA; I have found them to be great in the air, and worse than useless on the ground...Is that, I wonder, because they have not yet been able to out-source the 'air' functions, as they have most everything else ...? Think on't. :hmm:

[fincastle84]

Well at least BA are good at something, unlike KLM.:ok:

[etrang]

Do not forget "The best airline when not on strike" category - an ouright winner there

No, I think quite the opposite is true. When not on strike there are many better airlines than BA. But when on strike, BA service is better than normal and certainly better than any other striking airline i'm aware of.

[Katamarino]

Well at least BA are good at something, unlike KLM.

I wouldn't know - I have only flown KLM once, and I'm British, not Dutch :ok: