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Proplinerman
23rd Jan 2011, 07:39
I'm too young to remember this charismatic transport aircraft in service, tho I've seen four of them. I'm sure there are many members here who flew on them, so please can I hear your reminiscences and to stimulate those, here are photos of three of the Hastings I've seen. I saw the fourth at Gaydon or Pershore (can't remember which) in 1975/6, but criminally, I did not have my camera with me and I was saddened to hear, a few years ago, that this aircraft was subsequently scrapped. Photo of it anyone?

Now here are my photos (and for anyone looking at this post in its first five minutes, please be patient, it takes about a minute for me to create and post the link to each photo).

Firstly, the aircraft at Cosford, quite a few years ago:

ScanImage8 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/5324613382/)

The one at Newark:

DSC_0009 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/4924715032/)

The Duxford aircraft as it used to look:

ScanImage1 1024 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/5357749300/)

And the Duxford aircraft again, but now as it appears currently:

DSC0015e | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/5379823349/)

renfrew
23rd Jan 2011, 09:25
While at ATC camp at Andover in 1958 we were promised a ride in a Comet.
Unfortunately the RAF driver got lost and arrived at Lyneham as the Comet took off.
As a consolation we had 2 hours doing touch and goes on Hastings TG551.
I also remember there was a RNZAF Hastings parked on the line.

brakedwell
23rd Jan 2011, 09:31
I spent two years in the right hand seat. Not a very happy time after my Hunter course was cancelled due to Duncan Sandys axe in 1957.
Anyway, here are three "working" Hastings photos taken in April 1958.

Over Northern Kenya
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/HastKen.jpg

RAF Khormaksar, Aden
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/HastAden.jpg

RAF Nicosia, Cyprus
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/Hastings.jpg

Proplinerman
23rd Jan 2011, 09:49
Great photos, thanks for posting.

Capot
23rd Jan 2011, 10:19
I write as a Hastings passenger, not crew...

All-arms parachute course, January 1963 or thereabouts, might have been earlier...

First night jump, I think at Weston-on-the-Green...

Also first introduction to a Hastings. Once the disbelief had been got over, off we went to the DZ. I was No 1 in the stick and had the stand in the door for an interminable period.

What terrified me out of my wits wasn't my imminent death due to parachute failure; we were becoming accustomed to that fear.

It was the solid stream of hot sparks, about 2ft wide, from the port inner engine, into which I would have to leap with my nylon umbrella, and the tailplane slicing through the air below and to the left of me, illuminated like a vision from hell by the sparks and the light from the open door, that would cut me in half as I fell.

But the fear of the PTI just behind me was far, far greater, so I jumped anyway. And nothing went wrong. But I never rode in a Hastings again, and I'm not sorry.

Liobian
23rd Jan 2011, 12:20
Proplinerman... the Pershore a/c was (I believe) WD499. I spent a few months there and blagged a flight over the Severn estuary. Recall it was v noisy and quite an uphill walk in the cabin. Wish I'd taken pix !!

Tankertrashnav
23rd Jan 2011, 16:17
Like 100's of V Force nav radars I did my NBS course on Hastings T5s at Lindholme (there's one at Newark, link to pic in Post #1). After advanced nav on the (recently retired) Dominie it was a step back in time, hardly luxurious surroundings!

One incident sticks in my memory. Cruising at height one day all 4 engines cut out, coughed, stopped again then finally picked up and carried on as normal. In those few seconds we were out of our seats and making for the parachute stowage before things returned to normal. There was a quiet "sorry chaps" from the flight engineer, but as mere studes we were never let into the secret as to what cockup he had made to suddenly turn us into a glider. Perhaps someone has a theory?

Warmtoast
23rd Jan 2011, 16:26
Abingdon 1959

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Abingdon/AbingdonHastingsLanding_1200x800.jpg

Hastings returns after a drop at Weston-on-the-Green.

Parachute door left open as Weston is about 10-miles up the road from Abingdon and just north of Oxford.

Grys Dweizelschidt
23rd Jan 2011, 17:55
First ATC annual camp, 1974, and some of us were offered an opportunity for a flight on a T5, until TPTB decided we weren't grown-up enough to be allowed to see the nav kit that Tankertrashnav alluded to earlier.

WE992
23rd Jan 2011, 18:12
I was lucky enough to fly in TG505. I've always thought the Hastings was a great aircraft. The photos on this thread are amazing!

wileydog3
23rd Jan 2011, 18:34
Some are with prop hubs and some not. Any real difference?

Also, what was approach speed and how did this beast handle on landing?

Another machine with the Hercules engines. How long did they last and how often were they changed?

What was normal cruise airspeed and how long was a routine sortie?

Sites say the last retirement came in 1977? Before or after the Beverly?

brakedwell
23rd Jan 2011, 19:06
1. Sometimes all the props were fitted with spenners, sometimes two or three or none at all. I think it depended on their condition and availability.

2. Around ninety knots and it was a handful with heavy controls. Three point landings were preferred in the early years. The captain called the power settings and the F/E, facing backwards in the rear righthand side of a very long flight deck looked out of his window at the starboard wheel, cutting the power when he judged the time was right! If it resulted in a bad landing he blamed the pilots or claimed the credit for a greaser!

3. The sleeve valve Hercules were very reliable.

4. 200 knots. Depended on the route, but six hours was a good average.

It was a long time ago, so my memories have faded.

longer ron
23rd Jan 2011, 20:35
The last time I saw a Hastings was when one rumbled out of the snow into Marham just before christmas 1976ish ? doing a 'round robin' i believe

ozleckie
23rd Jan 2011, 20:58
I had many flights in them during the V Force dispersal exercises. Noisy old beasts and from memory you couldn't smoke as the fuel transfer gear was in the cabin floor.

While on 205 Sqn at Changi I flew to Sangley Point near Manilla in a FEAF VIP Hastings which had been modified so that you could have a fag. I remember sitting at the back reading Neville Shute's 'No Highway' and trying not to think of the one that crashed near Abingdon and killed all those Paras. That's why I needed a smoke

Last year I helped return a DC4 to the skies and whilst doing so wondered why the RAF had not purchased some of the many that must have been surplus at the end of the war. On the surface it looked to be a better aircraft than the Hastings. Propping up British Industry again.?

mustbeaboeing
23rd Jan 2011, 22:03
With regard to when they were retired.

I can remember a Hastings visiting Luton (EGGW/LTN) in either 1977 or 1978 on a possible farewell visit to local, Hitchen ATC Corps. Squadron.

Taking Off on grass runway 18/36.

norwich
23rd Jan 2011, 22:24
My recent view of TG517 at Newark Museum .... Keith.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/DSC_0029-6.jpg

wileydog3
23rd Jan 2011, 22:32
2. Around ninety knots and it was a handful with heavy controls. Three point landings were preferred in the early years. The captain called the power settings and the F/E, facing backwards in the rear righthand side of a very long flight deck looked out of his window at the starboard wheel, cutting the power when he judged the time was right! If it resulted in a bad landing he blamed the pilots or claimed the credit for a greaser!

The FE on the B-29 also faced the back. ???

And from what I read of the Russians and the IL-86 early on, the FE also was sort of a human autothrottle. The pilot flew. The FE controlled power. And as you noted some times they were out of synch resulting in some very wild rides.

Robert Cooper
24th Jan 2011, 02:40
The last flight I had in a Hastings was from Hickam AFB to Christmas Island in 1957. About 1000 miles south over water.

While we were waiting in the MATS departure for the aircraft to arrive at the gate, Bob Hope and Jane Mansfield were also there waiting for a flight to Guam on a USO tour. When Bob Hope saw the Hastings clatter up to the gate, he bought us all a beer on the grounds that we would probably never been seen alive again!

In those days MATS was flying C-124 Globemasters and Super Constellations etc., so I guess the old Hastings seemed a bit primitive. Bob Hope also tried to buy my KD slacks for golfing, but that's another story!

Bob C

dixi188
24th Jan 2011, 06:42
The "Voice Activated Autothrottle" was fitted to many of the older large aircraft, long before anyone invented computers to do the job.


AKA Flight Engineer.

Barksdale Boy
24th Jan 2011, 06:46
As did Tankertrashnav, I flew on the Hastings during the Air Training phase of the NBS course at Lindholme, but in 1967. I thoroughly enjoyed that part of the course due in no small measure to Bill Sherlock's excellence as an instructor. He always said that the secret to being a good nav radar was knowing where to put your markers, as opposed to what I later came to recognise as the John Willey approach - know every box inside out. Tedious.

My enduring Hastings memory, however, is of an event in 1972. Waddo's legendary CO, Des Hall, had arranged for a Hastings to be available for a long week end to take that year's Giant Voice crews and staff to Wildenrath to make up for the competition in the United States being cancelled.

As our gallant band approached the aircraft on F Dispersal a magnificent figure appeared in the doorway. About 5' 2" tall and of very senior non-commissioned rank, he was wearing an ill-fitting flying suit, and untamed tufts of silver hair sprouted from beneath a service hat that might once have looked respectable but was now soaked with many years' worth of hydraulic fluid, oil and sweat. His ruddy complexion spoke of countless evenings spent dining at the table of Bacchus. He fixed us with a disdainful stare before bellowing into the innards of the aircraft, "Skipper, the f$%#ing pax are 'ere". I always think of him when I hear people today complaining abiut the standard of airline cabin crew.

PPRuNe Pop
24th Jan 2011, 07:27
Brakedwell,

Please adjust picture size to no more than 850x850. This is the limit we accept. It widens the pager too far.

brakedwell
24th Jan 2011, 15:28
Also, what was approach speed and how did this beast handle on landing?

What was normal cruise airspeed and how long was a routine sortie?

I have unearthed my Hastings Pilots Notes and confirmed my memory ain't what it used to be! Here are a few figures that may interest you.
Approach speeds: Pattern - 145kts. Finals - 135Kts. Glideslope = Threshold speed + 20kts. Threshold speed 100 to 105kts at 74000lb (max land wt). 110kts max overweight landing.

If max range not required cruise at 173kts. 3145 Gals usuable fuel. 10000 ft cruise 225 gph.

ian16th
24th Jan 2011, 17:31
1st flight in a Haystack. Summer of 1952 an 'Air Experience' flight to, from and around Lynham for Boy Entrants from Yatesbury.

A disappointment as previous flights had been in Anson's, much more 'interesting' ;)

July 58, scrounged a lift from Orange to Benson on a Hastings that was passing through on a Friday. It saved me doing the journey courtesy of SNCF.

Last Hastings flight(s). 1960. Marham-Luqa-El Adem-Khartoum-Khormaksar-Mauripur and 3 weeks later the return trip.
This trip included night-stops at El Adem and Khormaksar in each direction.
The overriding memory was that seeing as we all contracted dysentery while in Karachi, we discovered the shortcomings of the Hastings only being equipped with Elsan toilets. This was a particular problem on the leg from Khormaksar to Khartoum, being bounced all over the sky while crossing the mountains of Ethiopia at about 9,000 feet. Elson's are not spill proof. :yuk:

Why did we have to suffer so? We were a detachment of 214 Sqdn. We based 3 Valiant's at Mauripur to re-fuel the a/c that completed the 1st non-stop flight from UK to Singapore and the return flight.

We used Mauripur several times after that, but Air Ministry coughed up for a better hotel, the original exercise having nearly been scrubbed due to the numbers of air and ground crew being unfit for duty!
On the 1st trip commissioned types were billeted in the PAF OM, they got sick before those of us in the hotel down town. Future trips all ranks stayed in the same hotel.
Transport Command were also persuaded to supply 'Whimpering Giant' Britannia's. The luxury of hot drinks and FLUSH toilets. :ok:

The Lindholme Hastings? Well we had Lincolns when I was there :) Though I did help install the original NBS 'Trainer' in the Bombing School.

wileydog3
24th Jan 2011, 19:05
If max range not required cruise at 173kts. 3145 Gals usuable fuel. 10000 ft cruise 225 gph.
6500HP pulling 74,000lbs.. what was MAX cruise?

GAZIN
24th Jan 2011, 19:36
I am always interested to read about the Hastings & Hermes so thank you Proplinerman for this thread.
The Hastings is a bit before my time, though I probably saw one at an air show in the 60's. My father worked on them during his national service, here are some scans from his album. The album is marked 'changi 1954'.
I believe that the interior shots are of a VIP Hastings C4, if anyone can confirm this I would be grateful, they were on a page with a BOAC Constellation but I don't think it's a Connie interior.

http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq293/Jetmech_photos/Dads%20photos/Hastings-C4-WJ324.jpg

http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq293/Jetmech_photos/Dads%20photos/Interior-3.jpg

http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq293/Jetmech_photos/Dads%20photos/Interior-2.jpg

http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq293/Jetmech_photos/Dads%20photos/Interior-1.jpg

http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq293/Jetmech_photos/Dads%20photos/Interior-4.jpg

http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq293/Jetmech_photos/Dads%20photos/Hastings-C2-WJ338.jpg

The last Hastings deliverd WJ343
http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq293/Jetmech_photos/Dads%20photos/Hastings-C2-WJ343.jpg

JAVELINBOY
24th Jan 2011, 21:49
Proplinerman and Liobian

RRE Pershore had two HastingsWD482 built 30/03/51 ended up derelict at Pershore Aug 1975
Had an AEF Flight in it from Pershore on 4/1/68 as an ATC Cadet, we used to cadge flights during school holidays.

The second Hastings was WD499, flew in that one as well on 9/4/69, it ended its days on the fire dump at Honington.

I recall the interior was fitted out with Dexion Shelving with loads of electronic gear mounted on it which was attended to by the civillian research staff who flew with it.
No idea what it was or what it did, spent most of the time on the flight deck.

Ever grateful to Flt Lt Lofty Carter who was the ACLO and did his best to get us a flight when we turned up at the gate. Happy hours also spent in the Tower there when no flying and many a visit to the Flight Safety Centre being shown all the kit and how it worked.

avionic type
25th Jan 2011, 00:12
Having had the misfortune of having to fly from the UK to Gibraltar in a Hastings twice in the early 50s, the word charismatic does not spring to mind, lets face it it was very noisey and those rearfacing seats were the most uncomfortable things to sit on for 8 to 10 hours, sheer misery, we used to hate them , we much preferred to fly in our Shacklton Mk1s at least there were 2 bunks to sleep on or plenty of floorspace to sleep just forward of the rear door,an engine cover to lie on, a wad of cotton wool in each ear , bliss.:zzz::zzz::zzz:

Lancman
25th Jan 2011, 07:37
One of the best things about flying the Hastings, on which I was a Flight Engineer from 1958 -60, was the variety of tasks; despatching paratroops in the early morning at Weston-on-the Green, very low level free-dropping under-slung Jeeps at Watchfield, or long range transport to Australia or Christmas Island. And as all my previous flying had been on Lancasters and Shackletons I didn't find them particularly noisy. To cruise half way round the world at 8,000 feet was to learn just how much of the Earth is yellow and brown, how soggy Eastern Canada is, and just how boring the American Midwest is. Throw in some formation flying and who could ask for anything more?


In answer to previous queries; yes those are photos of the interior of one of the VIP Mk 4 Hastings, note the width of the seat in the third picture!


I think that I can explain the engine cough experienced by Tankertrashnav. In the middle of the FE's panel were 7 levers, 4 group cocks that selected various fuel tanks on or off, and 3 cross-feed cocks so that you could feed any engine from any tank group. No schematic panel or magnetic indicators, just 7 levers sticking out of the panel. As the newest sprog on 24(C) Squadron I seemed to get all the early morning continuation training flights and quickly became quite slick at an after start check procedure that required manipulation of these levers to prove that every engine could be fed from any group, ending up with all group cocks open and all crossfeeds closed. One morning I ended up with all group cocks closed and all crossfeeds open! I managed to catch 2 engines as they ran down by using the ki-gas pump which was fixed to the floor and the 3 selector valves which were mounted next to the roof but was my face red! I learned about rushing from that.


I'm not saying that this is what definitely happened to Ttn but it's a possibility.

John (Gary) Cooper
25th Jan 2011, 08:08
I have hundreds of photos of Hastings, some of my own and others donated, a few of them are shown on here

Handley Page Hastings pictures from aviation photos on webshots (http://rides.webshots.com/album/65233255DpgacR?vhost=rides)

tornadoken
25th Jan 2011, 09:16
ozl #14: Propping up British Industry again? Yes, but this time, I suggest, a good thing.

Between 11/44 and 3/46 RAF enjoyed 11 C-54B/D under Lend/Lease, which terminated at VJ Day. To retain them and to buy in-Service Support required $ which UK did not have, so off they went to USAAF/USMC/USN. RAF Transport Command tried to operate ludicrous Lancastrians, awaiting 100 Hastings C.1, funded 10/45, operational from 10/48.

On 28/7/47 HP and Avro were joint winners of the Medium Bomber Tender (funding released 19/11/47). Sir Fred.H.P pressed MoS for hands-on work “to keep the factor(ies) going” till Victor B.1 production: thus the WD/WJXXX batch of 41 Hastings C.2.

WHBM
25th Jan 2011, 09:17
.....blagged a flight over the Severn estuary. Recall it was v noisy and quite an uphill walk in the cabin.
I presume you are meaning in flight here rather than on the ground. Did the Hastings suffer from the same issue as its stablemate the Hermes, of flying excessively tail-down ? How did Handley-Page manage to get the C of G so wrong on this group of types ?

Lancman
25th Jan 2011, 09:17
Thanks for those John, I spotted some old friends. The fuel levers that I mentioned can be seen clearly in photos 70 and 78, the 14 gauges in the centre of the pictures were the fuel tank contents. The window through which the FE could see the starboard main wheel was further round to the left. The eagle-eyed may have noticed in some shots the angle that the double-slotted single-slatted Handley Page flaps came down to.

As I remember it the Hastings flew nice and level, but it was quite a climb to the cockpit when on the ground.

brakedwell
25th Jan 2011, 09:35
If max range not required cruise at 173kts. 3145 Gals usuable fuel. 10000 ft cruise 225 gph.
6500HP pulling 74,000lbs.. what was MAX cruise?

I have extrapolated a few figures from the Pilots Notes performance graphs using mid weight 70,000lb figures.

Max cruise 235kts TAS @ 270 gals per hour.

Max Range speed. 179kts TAS = 1.04 ANM/ Imp Gallon.


Lancman this might clarify your explaination

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/EPanel.png

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/Ekey.png

goudie
25th Jan 2011, 11:00
When going on detachment with 32 Sqdn. from Akrotiri we always
flew in a 70 Sqdn Hastings. The first time I flew in one I was
amazed at how noisy the engines were. Sounded as if all the big ends had gone!
Whenever we flew to Shajah, via Teheran, we had to wear those awful
oxygen masks with the airbag attached. The in-flight catering consisted of a
cardboard box containing a stale roll with some salad and an urn of tea
down the back.
Having seen off our 4 Canberra's, after a small detachment to Tripoli,
we were given a lift back to Akrotiri in the NEAF C in C's Hastings, who had been on a visit to Tripoli.
Can't remember his name but he spent most of the trip chatting to us.

The cabin service was rather better than what we were used to!

brakedwell
25th Jan 2011, 11:32
Whenever we flew to Shajah, via Teheran, we had to wear those awful
oxygen masks with the airbag attached.

On a clear day we flew the Northern Turkey/Iran route below oxygen height.

Northern Turkey from 10000 feet.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/OverNorthernTurkey10000feet.jpg

Mount Ararat
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/MountAraratNorthernTurkey-1.jpg

NW Iran
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/OverTurkey10000Ft.jpg

Tankertrashnav
25th Jan 2011, 11:36
Lancman and brakedwell. Thanks for the explanation and clarification of the 70,000 lb glider incident. Wonder what a present day pilot flying a fully computerised airliner would make of that array of knobs and tits! Not surprised the odd cock-up occurred. Anyway, it woke us all up, and no harm done!

wileydog3 - the Hastings lasted much longer than the Beverley, which retired from service in 1968 IIRC. I did once see one airborne from a train window a year or two later, but assumed that was the one kept by Boscombe for some reason

Super pics, Brakedwell. Used to like watching Turkey coming up meet us as we flew over with chicks in company. That was up around FL 290/310 though, and the tops still looked pretty close. There are bits of Turkey you wouldn't want to attempt at 10,000', though :eek:

Union Jack
25th Jan 2011, 11:47
Mount Arafat:=

Brakedwell - Great photographs and great yarns but I smell "Ararat":D

Jack

brakedwell
25th Jan 2011, 12:09
err - senior moment/freudian slip from the hijack days :eek:

Union Jack
25th Jan 2011, 12:37
err - senior moment/freudian slip from the hijack days

:D:D:D

Jack

VX275
25th Jan 2011, 14:47
" very low level free-dropping under-slung Jeeps at Watchfield,"

I thought I'd traced every airdrop method tried in this country but this is a new one on me. - I'd love to see the details.
I must admit I thought the last Jeeps dropped by a Hastings were the ones during the Suez Operation when the AATDC's museum had to be raided for the crash pans; the UK by that time having gone over to the Medium Stressed Platform (MSP) for all its heavy drop. The MSP wasn't used at Suez because at that time it was only being dropped from USAF C-119 prior to the Beverley being cleared for heavy drop.

Does anyone have any photos of the Hastings with the Paratechnicon?

brakedwell
25th Jan 2011, 15:02
I remember dropping an Austin Champ from a 99 sqn Hastings towards the end of 1957. We took off from Abingdon and destroyed it at Watchfield when none of the parachutes opened, I understand it was only two feet tall when the army recovered it. :sad:

John (Gary) Cooper
25th Jan 2011, 16:02
VX275

I distinctly recall being on a Jeep Drop at Watchfield, there were two Jeeps in tandem underslung Hastings TG531 on 6th April 1955, the flight time from Lyneham to Watchfield and return was 1 hour and 15 minutes. My ATC 3822 mentions nothing more than this but I seem to recall 4 chutes deployed on each Jeep and what I recall that the aircraft appeared to 'lift' as the load was dropped. I was but 15 at the time

The set up was similar to this mock up at IWM Duxford Airspace hangar that I took a few months back

http://inlinethumb57.webshots.com/20152/2703652120035970728S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2703652120035970728NmTFeF)

Lancman
25th Jan 2011, 16:33
A photograph of a Hastings with a paratechnicon can be found at Air-drop jeeps in 1945? - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums (http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=101083) . Looks awful.

brakedwell
25th Jan 2011, 17:48
Four knots above the stalling speed in a Twin Pioneer with a load of frozen chickens and not much on the clock? :p. :p

GAZIN
25th Jan 2011, 18:39
I presume you are meaning in flight here rather than on the ground. Did the Hastings suffer from the same issue as its stablemate the Hermes, of flying excessively tail-down ? How did Handley-Page manage to get the C of G so wrong on this group of types ?

I have read that late changes to galley location & engine power settings led to the Hermes tail down attitude. There was no time or money to engineer a fix (change the wing angle of incidence I believe).
The tail dragging versions flew level as far as I Know.

Des Hawgood
25th Jan 2011, 18:52
As an armourer I used to load the jeeps and lindholme canisters onto Hastings. !954 to late 1956 sounds about right. Lyneham and Abingdon. Can't remember the flat one though

VX275
25th Jan 2011, 20:13
Lancman, thanks for the lead. Maybe I should have said "has anybody got any OTHER photographs of the Paratechnicon" as those pictures were posted by me. Yes the Paratechnicon was awful and it was the cause of the demise of TG499 with all crew in September 49.
As for the Jeep airdrop I have a copy of the AP containing the rigging scheme. OK it is really for the Halifax but the only real difference was the supporting beam which attached the load to the aircraft. I also have a copy of a drawing of the Hastings beam somewhere in my collection which I did consider offering to Duxford so that they could sling that Jeep under their Hastings.
With regards to whistling Jeeps I knew a REME tiffy who was quite proud of the three he destroyed in one day, the last of which went in right in front of the queen, thus proving one of the laws of air-drop. 'The higher the rank of the visiting observer the greater the chance that things will go wrong.'

Cornish Jack
26th Jan 2011, 11:02
From a few trips 'meat bombing' from the Hastings, it certainly did fly tail down on those sorties. Quite noticeable 'cos we were dispatching paras and had to recover the static line bags after the drop. After dropping sim 15s, it was a mighty heave to get the lines and bags back on board AND uphill too!! Once back in it was exceedlingly pleasant to lean out of the open doors to get a slipstream head massage!!
Somewhat oddly, we were doing the Dispatcher's course for crewing duties on theValetta but all our dispatching was done on the Hastings.

Warmtoast
26th Jan 2011, 11:09
Hastings Jeep Drop

Flight Magazine 22nd February 1952 has a photo of a jeep being dropped from a Hastings.

It can be seen here:

1952 | 0460 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1952/1952%20-%200460.html)

John (Gary) Cooper
26th Jan 2011, 12:20
Nicely trimmed on this shot of TG517 formating with TG568, both from the Vulcan OCU at RAF Scampton, Lincolnshire (Photo courtesy of S/Ldr Bill White)


http://inlinethumb26.webshots.com/15321/1222617157035970728S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1222617157035970728CLTWlg)

WHBM
26th Jan 2011, 15:24
With regards to whistling Jeeps I knew a REME tiffy who was quite proud of the three he destroyed in one day, the last of which went in right in front of the queen
A television programme I saw some years ago visited a large used commercial vehicle auction. Among these were a substantial number of army LRs which were being sold off, and at the end of a long line of these were a couple which had been air dropped without the benefit of accurate parachute packing, in the manner described above. They were literally flattened like a pancake, same ground area but about a 2 feet high pile of scrap.

Journalist thought it was extraordinary that they had been sent to the auction, and was scarcely able to conceal his amusement. I wonder who buys them and how much they give for them.

brakedwell
26th Jan 2011, 15:31
Journalist thought it was extraordinary that they had been sent to the auction, and was scarcely able to conceal his amusement. I wonder who buys them and how much they give for them.

A vertically challenged wargamer who is short of cash? :}

maclad99
26th Jan 2011, 15:34
One that Proplinerman might appreciate as it's taken at his home airport,Ringway,in 1968.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v736/Cestrian/AEGCCHastingsC1TG5361968a.jpg

wileydog3
26th Jan 2011, 16:21
How much additional fuel in those wing tanks?

Dr Jekyll
26th Jan 2011, 17:44
What was the Hastings that soldiered on at Scampton until 1977 actually used for?

John (Gary) Cooper
26th Jan 2011, 18:36
Each underslung wing tip tank held 350 gallons

VX275
26th Jan 2011, 20:18
Among these were a substantial number of army LRs which were being sold off, and at the end of a long line of these were a couple which had been air dropped without the benefit of accurate parachute packing, in the manner described above. They were literally flattened like a pancake, same ground area but about a 2 feet high pile of scrap.


I went to a military vehicle rally where there was a enthusiast who was into all things SAS 'Pink Panther' Land Rover. I mentioned to him that I had a photo of one that had been used for a load on a HALO MSP which had gone in from 12 000 ft. The enthusiast showed me a file with all known Pinkies which had a few that had 'unknown' against their present location. I sent him a copy of the photograph so that one of the 'unknowns' could be written up as 'Scrapped following air-drop at A&AEE. How did we know which Pinkie it was? As you say these things end up about two foot high and on this one the only thing that was recognisable was the slightly bent number plate.
Incidentally the reason this load went in was the Boscombe Trials Officer was being a 'bit of a pain' with the Industrial Staff who rigged the loads and acted as Air Despatchers. During the loading of the MSP the Industrials noticed that the Trials Officer had forgotton to remove the safety pins from the Hite-Finders that would release the main parachutes as the load passed through 2000 ft. Unsurprisingly the reason for the failure was obvious, as was the culprit.

sisemen
27th Jan 2011, 00:20
What was the Hastings that soldiered on at Scampton until 1977 actually used for?


Training on the NBS for the V force. This was originally done at Lindholme, BCBS (Bomber Command Bombing School), firstly on Lincolns and then on Hastings. When Lindholme closed the remaining Hastings became part of 230 OCU.

Ah TG 536 - 2 hours 40 on 9 Oct 1973 - Scampton - Finningley, Brize and back to Scampton

WHBM
27th Jan 2011, 00:56
....the only thing that was recognisable was the slightly bent number plate.
Says something for the strength of the fixing screws !

johnfairr
27th Jan 2011, 08:10
They also used the Scampton Hastings for Air Defence training. #1 AD course of 228 OCU was scheduled for two trips of "radar prediction" with acetate sheets of the forthcoming topographical features, overlaid on the slewed NBS piccie. Hours of shading along the supposed track, 3 navs per trip each meant to do one hour at a time.

On both trips I was #3 and never got to the scope - the kit went u/s on the first, the aircraft u/s on the second. Total 5 hours on the Hastings, not one minute in anger . . . . :rolleyes:

Wookey
27th Jan 2011, 09:28
I am quite surprised that the Hastings, of which I knew very little until this thread started, remained in service until the middle 70's. By that time I would guess that RAF Transport Command would have had a number of different types in service - Argosy, Andover, Comet, Britannia ?
I would have thought that these more modern types could have fulfilled most of the tasks of that era, so why did it remain in service for so long?

brakedwell
27th Jan 2011, 12:23
I believe that the interior shots are of a VIP Hastings C4, if anyone can confirm this I would be grateful, they were on a page with a BOAC Constellation but I don't think it's a Connie interior.

Here is an interior diagram of the VIP C Mk.4

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/Screenshot2011-01-27at131244.png

GAZIN
27th Jan 2011, 13:47
Brakedwell thank you for posting the diagram, I think that confirms the photo's are of a C4.
A very interesting thread.

storl tern
27th Jan 2011, 15:19
why did it remain in service for so long?

cheap and reliable and could do the job intended

Tankertrashnav
27th Jan 2011, 17:14
I would have thought that these more modern types could have fulfilled most of the tasks of that era, so why did it remain in service for so long?


Interesting that that the Hastings, which was replaced by Argosies and Britannias on various transport squadrons should outlive the Argosy, Comet and Andover (C1 at least) and lasted about the same time as the Brit (1977 I believe). As storl tern implies it was a case of, if it aint broke, don't fix it, and there was no temptation to do an expensive refit on any of the types you mention.

Small point, in 1967 Transport Command was renamed Air Support Command and this in turn became 38 and 46 Groups in 1972. Pedant mode switched off now!

brakedwell
27th Jan 2011, 19:00
The Air Support Britannias (22) were gradually withdrawn from service between January 1975 and January 1976. In 1971 a BOAC/Eagle/Air Spain 312F was acquired by AAEE Boscombe Down to support overseas trials until it was retired in 1984.

forget
27th Jan 2011, 19:28
I posted this in March 2009 and got no response. Now that more people are showing an interest in Hastings I'll try again.
------------------
A friend in the pub just happened to mention that he’d once done a wheels up at Khartoum in a Hastings. Sort of thing you’d drop into any flagging conversation. Anyway, he showed the scar on his leg to prove it. His old man worked for the Air Ministry and he was on his way to Aden (?) for school holidays.

I’ve promised to dig out all the details, crew names, aircraft reg, and photos of actual aircraft etc. Trouble is, I can’t find anything. The accident was in 1956, of this he is sure, but the only Hastings accident/incident in ’56 was WD483, gear collapsed, Aden.

And the only accident at Khartoum was in 1959, TG522, engine failure(s) after take-off, crashed returning. 5 Dead (all crew) all pax survived, 25. (As he was thirteen at the time I'm developing a suspicion that he may have been aboard this aircraft, with the details withheld from him.)

I’m pretty sure that any wheels up at Khartoum would have produced a write off – but no mention anywhere. Any ideas?

brakedwell
27th Jan 2011, 20:08
The WD483 accident happened "up country" at Attaq, there was no chance of a schoolboy being on board!

Warmtoast
27th Jan 2011, 20:18
Found another interesting Hastings snippet from July 1956. See below

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/GenTemplerHastings.jpg

Never heard of this before. Must have been very draughty with an open door at 9,500ft - and a few red faces among the crew.

Given that Gen Templer survived an EOKA bomb under his bed in Cyprus (I think) a missing exit door on an aeroplane would be very small beer indeed!

Later Edit.
It was Field Marshal Harding who as Governor of Cyprus had the EOKA bomb placed under his bed not Gen. Templar. Thankfully the bomb didn't go off.

forget
27th Jan 2011, 20:25
The WD483 accident happened "up country" at Attaq, there was no chance of a schoolboy being on board!

I agree .. I said ... "but the only Hastings accident/incident in ’56"..... so no chance of him being aboard 483. Question is - what was he aboard?

John (Gary) Cooper
27th Jan 2011, 20:32
There is a first hand report here on WD483 at Ataq Hastings Bangs and Prangs and Splashes and Crashes (http://splashdown2.tripod.com/id11.html)

Four Wings
28th Jan 2011, 10:58
Interesting reference to main gear collapse. At the time of the UN Congo intervention in July 196o I was working for Shell in Accra, Ghana, where the troop airlift was centred, helping out on refuelling from my normal job as a sales rep.

The RAF sent a Comet 2 and a Hastings. When the Hastings arrived and I went on board to take their fuel requirements I enquired why their only cargo was a complete spare main landing gear (with wheel). I was told 'they tend to collapse so we brought a spare'. Unfortunately they had failed to bring a toolkit so to open the engine oil dip hatches they had to borrow a screwdriver from my car toolkit.

Old Hairy
28th Jan 2011, 12:32
I cannot see any memtion of yet another variation of the venerable hastings,the Hastings Met.Mk1 as flown by 202 Sqn. out of Aldergrove daily in 1950, to mid atlantic.Flown at 1000ft,every 100nm. down to 50ft. When at umpteen West,box climb to altitude and return. Various Met instruments were grouped at co-pilots position,frost point hydrometers,other barometric thingies.A report compiled by the Met Observor every 30 mins. the W/Op sent this weather report to Dunstable. This mark of Hastings took over from the Halifax. How do I know? I spent six miserable months there,instead of my posting to 24 Sqn. route flying, before I managed to escape.but thats another story

l.garey
28th Jan 2011, 12:40
I remember at ATC Overseas Flight in May 1958: Hastings Met 1 TG566 Lyneham-Gibraltar and back. Six hours each way. Noisy and cold as I recall.

Laurence

LFittNI
28th Jan 2011, 14:12
As a newly-minted sprog in 1964, one of my first liney tasks was to re-charge the crew and pax oxygen systems in a couple of Hastings visiting Lyneham.

IIRC, the pax oxygen points were under the floor in the main cabin. Trying to access them, I found traces of very black gunge around the fuselage stringers. Reporting this to Chiefy, he informed me that it was the remains of the coal cargoes, transported on the Berlin Airlift.

Lou Scannon
28th Jan 2011, 16:44
Before we become too overcome with nostalgia about the Hastings we must remember just how difficult it was to fly.

Designed in around 1944 by the people who built the Halifax it had many similar components including the landing gear. No one seemed to think of fitting power controls (and yes, they were in use...at least one Lancaster had them fitted as a trial).

The main problem was its incredible stability and reluctance to change attitude being it in pitch, roll or yaw. This was ideal in the cruise but a little challenging the closer one got to attempting a landing. This was one of the main reasons for the engineer to control the power on the approach as the poor pilot needed both hands on the yoke especially when it came to the flair.Even with the yoke back against the stops the nose would still be reluctant to raise itself without copious nose up trim, especially if the engineer gave a faster than expected reaction to the order to "Slow cut!".
The resulting bounce was as entertaining to the watching vultures in the crew room as it was to the crew who felt no more than passengers as the sky darkened with the extreme altitude and then the final fall back to earth.
Handley Page did make slight amends with the Mk2 version which had a spring balance tab on the elevator to make life a little easier.

On take off there was a gap from when the power started to be applied and the tail wheel lifted off (fitted with a lock to help keep the aircraft straight) and the rudder came out of the shade of the fuselage to contribute to directional control. Using differential power by careful twisting the wrist to open up throttles assymetrically usually overcame this gap of between 10 and 60 or so knots on the ASI.

There was,of course, another gap in speed between when it became airborne and it achieved a speed at which an engine could fail and you would still survive. This was so common in those days that nobody worried to much about this lack of performance "A" that we take so much for granted these days.

In the cruise it was as stable as the proverbial outside toilet, but with an outboard shut down a turn needed full aileron and a boot full of rudder in the same direction.

One good thing about Sir Frederick's machine was that it certainly made all the other aircraft I flew seem easy...but perhaps not so much fun!

brakedwell
28th Jan 2011, 18:49
After completing a rudimentary second pilot's course at 242 OCU Dishforth in 1957 I was "invited" to stay on for a few months to act as a staff second pilot to trainee captains. As three point landings were standard at that time I soon learned to keep my eyes shut after we collided with the runway and began bouncing across north Yorkshire. I understand wheeler landings were preferred in the latter years of the Hastings service life.

The AvgasDinosaur
28th Jan 2011, 20:05
Please can anyone tell me about the "Operation Heliotrope" flights by 230 OCU
Hastings, unofficially 1066 Squadron, during the 1976 Cod War versus Iceland ?
I understand up to twenty sorties were flown dropping supplies to RN ships at
sea defending/protecting British trawlers in disputed waters off the Icelandic
coast.
Which aircraft were involved, from where were the missions flown, has anyone
ever written a book about these ops.
Thanks in anticipation,
Be lucky
David

Cornish Jack
28th Jan 2011, 20:42
I remember the Ataq Hastings crash mainly for the (possibly apocryphal) Co-pilot's escape from the crash. The aircraft was on fire and he, apparently. left via the DV window - a feat subsequently considered a physical impossibility.

John (Gary) Cooper
28th Jan 2011, 22:13
Co-pilots DV window

http://inlinethumb24.webshots.com/24279/2000570790035970728S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2000570790035970728NRqtSg)

papa_sierra
29th Jan 2011, 14:46
I was stationed at Akrotiri mid 60's doing second line maintenance on the Canberras. One day a Hastings appeared in the circuit making a much more pronounced noise than usual. When it taxied in and shut down, the reason for the pronounced noise became apparent.
The propellers on the inboard engines were twisted out of shape, caused by contact with the sea on a transit from Nicosia to Akrotiri, thus the aircraft flew the rest of the way on the outboard engines. It was rumoured that the Captain had been demonstrating to the copilot the difficulty of judging aircraft hight over a flat calm sea.
A four engine change ensued.
Does anyone else remember the incident?

John (Gary) Cooper
29th Jan 2011, 17:15
Re the props hitting the 'glassy sea' there is a photo and report at the bottom of this page The Royal Air Force (http://splashdown2.tripod.com/)

Flap40
29th Jan 2011, 17:50
I remember reading something about Typhoons in the Channel catching their props in the sea and that the blade tips were bent forward (water being denser than air) not back.

I'm not doubting that this incident happened but I find it strange that there is a difference in the bend direction.

forget
29th Jan 2011, 17:56
I don't understand why the prop tips are bent rearwards. If the engines were developing any power shouldn't they be bent forwards?

( I know I may regret this but something's not right. :bored: )

PS. Flap 40. Snap!

brakedwell
29th Jan 2011, 18:42
Perhaps the rearward force of the water was greater than the forward reaction to the thrust from the tips of the props.

Lou Scannon
29th Jan 2011, 18:49
The aircraft was subsequently fitted with four new engines and props.

On its first trip after the air test it was supposed to drop some paratroops, but when the wind increased to above the para limit it landed at El Adem.

I seem to remember that one or more spars that held the undercarriage in place was then found to have been damaged by the props hitting the sea. The gear collapsed and ,though no one was injured, the aircraft was Cat5.

...and another one bites the dust.

forget
29th Jan 2011, 18:51
The claim is that a Hastings was doing 250 knots at sea level. That would mean all engines contributing to pulling it through air. The prop tips dip into the water and, suddenly, the tips are pulling the aircraft through water. The only direction the tips will move is - forward. I don't believe this tale. On the other hand, I can't think of what might move the tips backwards. :confused:

John (Gary) Cooper
29th Jan 2011, 19:07
We can't be sure that the bent prop job was TG575 or not, but she later came to grief at El A and these pictures taken by the late John Brignell shows the props bent forwards and back tg575 ela pictures from aviation photos on webshots (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1163897394035970728pXdKMp?vhost=rides)

forget
29th Jan 2011, 19:12
pictures taken by the late John Brignell shows the props bent forwards and back

John, All I see is props bent back, as you'd expect with a wheels up and engines running. What am I missing?

John (Gary) Cooper
29th Jan 2011, 19:53
On enlarging the photo to 400% you are of course correct, my mistake the props are forward as stated

forget
29th Jan 2011, 20:02
... my mistake, the props are forward as stated.

Knock knock?

goudie
29th Jan 2011, 20:30
Does anyone else remember the incident?
Papa Sierra

Remember it very well, I too was working in ASF at the time.

wileydog3
29th Jan 2011, 21:33
A few nights ago one of the channels here was doing a series of Peter Sellers movies and one was "The Man in the Cocked Hat" about a small fictitious island in the Pacific, Galardia. Anyway there is a goofy intrigue and the British decide to send troops and there for a few seconds is a shot of a Hastings taking off.

The AvgasDinosaur
30th Jan 2011, 14:56
Please can anyone tell me about the "Operation Heliotrope" flights by 230 OCU Hastings, unofficially 1066 Squadron, during the 1976 Cod War versus Iceland ?
I understand up to twenty sorties were flown dropping supplies to RN ships at
sea defending/protecting British trawlers in disputed waters off the Icelandic
coast.
Which aircraft were involved, from where were the missions flown, has anyone
ever written a book about these ops.
Thanks in anticipation,
Be lucky
David

Please note I have High Stakes by Vic Flintham. One of the Heliotrope girls is now preserved at Newark.
Hope some one can help a bit.
Be lucky
David

Handley
1st Feb 2011, 21:57
Proplinerman you have started a very interesting thread. I must be one of the few people who helped to build Hastings and then fly in one while serving in the RAF. This is how it happened.
I joined Handley Page as an apprentice at Cricklewood in 1951 and began by working on the Hastings fuselage assembly line. From 1955 to 1957 I was serving with RAF MEAF Command and when I was posted from RAF Habbaniya in Iraq to RAF Nicosia in Cyprus on 22 April 1956 (in time for the Suez crisis) I flew there in a 70 Squadron Hastings TG621 with great confidence, knowing how well built it was. Happy days!

lamax
2nd Feb 2011, 04:30
Unless an aircraft is lowered vertically under power into water the propellors will always curve rearwards when entering water due to the resultant force of forward airspeed.

forget
2nd Feb 2011, 09:32
.... the propellers will always curve rearwards when entering water due to the resultant force of forward airspeed.

Eh? If the prop is producing thrust (as in this case) it is doing so by hurling air backwards, particularly at the tips. If the tips then try to hurl much denser water backwards they will bend forwards. No doubt. What you're saying is that the aircraft airspeed is greater than the thrust airspeed coming off the prop tips. In this case the aircraft was doing 250 Knots so .......... prop tips go forwards.

papa_sierra
3rd Feb 2011, 09:59
The report says that aircraft was at 250 feet, not 250 knots. I saw the inboard prop blades as photo, maybe Goudie will confirm also. A drift down with throttles back would be a likely scenario.

forget
3rd Feb 2011, 10:46
The report says that aircraft was at 250 feet, not 250 knots.

You're quite right, but this doesn't make things any clearer. If they thought they were at 250 feet over the sea they'd hardly have the throttles pulled back.

diginagain
3rd Feb 2011, 12:06
If they thought they were at 250 feet over the sea they'd hardly have the throttles pulled back.

"Watch what happens when I do this!"

Lou Scannon
4th Feb 2011, 14:48
Actually, The aircraft was authorised to fly at the standard low level height of 250 feet above the sea.

I seem to remember that the Captain, "R" , actually said. "Pop into the astro-dome Nav, and let me know when you can see the prop wash on the water" Which the Nav duly did.

Unfortunately, not only did he see the prop wash, he also saw some splashes amongst the wash as the inboards started to clip the water.

It then required "R" to call for full power on the outboards to overcome the drag on the inboard modified props so that he could make it back to base. Hence the need to change all four donks.

Amusingly, his subsequent Court Martial was enlivened by the Court Martial of a member of the original Board of Enquiry who managed to have his Landrover nicked. The latter defendant was fined more than "R" I seem to recall.

The total bill was for four engines burned out, four engines shock loaded, eight bent propellors (four bent one way, four the other?), one complete Hastings airframe and a clapped out landrover!

topsl
26th Dec 2014, 08:23
These are great photos. I am currently preparing a presentation on "The Right To Wear The Brevet" - also called the para wings. I did my course at Abingdon in 1960 while in the TA, and jumped from both the Beverley and Hastings aircraft. in those days we jumped from the boom of the Beverley, in addition to the side doors - 70 troops in all. Boom exits were later stopped due some accidents. My lecture covers the history of military parachuting up to the present. I plan to insert your photo of the two aircraft on the tarmac. Incidentally, I went on to train as a pilot at Hamble in 1962 and retired from BA in 1997.

patkinson
26th Dec 2014, 19:02
I was an engine fitter having served at Colerne on 36sqdn and 48 at Changi...in 64-67..we used to accompany the a/c on flights across the far east which may involve several overnight stops thus groundcrew were necessary at times!!
One such trip took me to Tachikawa which was a follow up to an earlier mission..which we flew to HK ,onto Naha then to Tachikawa..a great trip especially passing Mt Fuji was very picturesque..shame I lost the photograph!
at Naha which had an enormously long flightline our Hastings was parked among a load of US military a/c of all types ..a jeep which was passing along the flightline suddenly stopped and an young USAF captain jumped out and said what in the 'goddam name' is this airplane! I said it was a RAF Handley Page Hasting ..which increased his knowledge tremendously!
The previous mission was grounded for a while and had to have a fuel tank change which when we arrived I hope we would get the same problem..it was not to be but we had a great time and were well looked after by the Yanks!
Rgds

Patkinson:ok:

ancientaviator62
27th Dec 2014, 07:51
Patkinson,
if you look at the 'Global Aviation 60 years of the Hercules' thread you will see a pic of Fuji and also a pic of the Hastings. May bring back memories.

aeroid
9th Jan 2015, 18:04
You get around don't you. I'm hooked now.

aeroid
10th Jan 2015, 09:01
This might bring a tear to the glass eye of any old Hastings crews. I think it was sung to the tune of " a bird in a gilded cage."

"She has no jet engines, she just burns crude oil,
There's a creak in her dirty old spine,
But when she's ten thousand high, she's the Queen of the sky,
She's that Handley Page Hastings of mine."

It was often followed by a hangover some hours later!

Centaurus
10th Jan 2015, 11:47
I love those old aeroplane songs. I know this is a Hastings thread but as a former RAAF pilot who flew Wirraways, I thought Pprune readers would like this wartime ditty sung countless times in the Mess:

The Wirraway Song
To the tune of 'Bless 'em All'

They say there's a Wirraway out on the line
All set for a cross country flight
Hydraulics leaking and missing its revs
It's hoping to get there alright
There's many a cylinder running a temp
Through having no oil in its well
With good navigation and much concentration
You get there and back just like hell

Bless us all, bless us all
From Mildura right through to Rabaul
Bless the instructors who taught us to fly
Bless the OC and CGI
So we're saying goodbye to them all
Let the Wirras and Mildura recall
The scenes of emotion when we get promotion
So cheer up my lads bless them all

They say the Japs have some very nice crates
Now we are no longer in doubt
So if a Zero should get on your tail
This is the way to get out
Be cheerful, be careful, be calm and sedate
And don't let your British blood boil
And don't hesitate just go straight through the gate
And you'll blind the poor buggers in oil!

Oh Wirraways don't worry me
Wirraways don't worry me
Oil blowing buggers with flaps in their wings
Buggered up spark plugs and buggered up rings
So we're saying goodbye to them all
As back to the workshops they crawl
There'll only be elation and wild celebration
When we say goodbye to them all.
..................................................

,

The AvgasDinosaur
12th Jan 2015, 11:19
Learned contributors,
Please can anyone tell me about the "Operation Heliotrope" flights by 230 OCU Hastings, unofficially 1066 Squadron, during the 1976 Cod War versus Iceland?
I understand up to twenty sorties were flown dropping supplies to RN ships at sea defending/protecting British trawlers in disputed waters off the Icelandic coast. I have established that Squadron Leader K.R. "Jacko" Jackson MBE, AFC flew 4 heliotrope sorties whilst squadron commander of "1066 squadron" at Scampton, and now know that TG517 flew 4 of the missions, though can not ascertain that these were the same four, or that TG517 was the Boss's ship back then. TG 517 has 4 dayglo fish on her nose as mission zaps, has anyone any record of these marks on other Hastings?
Which other aircraft were involved, from where were the missions flown, all from Scampton? Has anyone ever written a book about these ops?
Thanks in anticipation, for your time and trouble,

Be lucky
David

joy ride
12th Jan 2015, 11:39
I had no idea that the Duxford Hastings had been re-painted and moved indoors. Another visit is long overdue!

ancientaviator62
12th Jan 2015, 12:04
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/7292fa10-d1cf-4afe-8591-3badbe0b5282_zps3545c0d5.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/7292fa10-d1cf-4afe-8591-3badbe0b5282_zps3545c0d5.jpg.html)

TG 528 at Staverton shortly after retirement from the RAF. Now at Duxford in the colours worn during Op Plainfare.

ancientaviator62
12th Jan 2015, 12:49
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/scan0034_zpsdc63ad21.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/scan0034_zpsdc63ad21.jpg.html)

Palisadoes (as was) Jamaica. Complete with appropriate crew transport.

Dr Jekyll
12th Jan 2015, 13:23
Does anyone remember which was the last Hastings in service? I was at Scampton in August 77 when it flew off to a museum but I can't remember which museum.

brakedwell
12th Jan 2015, 15:14
Was that 1877 or 1977 :E

Dr Jekyll
12th Jan 2015, 15:28
Maybe 77 AD.
But no, I'm pretty sure it was 1977. The same week Elvis Presley died.

Innominate
12th Jan 2015, 18:44
Cosford claim that TG511 has the honour http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documents/collections/85-A-09-HP-Hastings-TG511.pdf

Dr Jekyll
12th Jan 2015, 19:47
Thanks Innominate, fascinating stuff.

Warmtoast
12th Jan 2015, 21:07
A photo from my album showing Hastings IRIS 2 (TG 560) making its annual visit to RAF Thornhill, S. Rhodesia in 1952. IRIS 2 was based at RAF Watton.
This IRIS (Inspectorate of Radio Services) Hastings carried the Group Captain CO of IRIS and his team in their specially adapted aircraft to check whether signals standards and Air Traffic Control procedures at RAF Thornhill were up to standard.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Thornhill/Thornhill-IRISHastings.jpg


.

ancientaviator62
13th Jan 2015, 07:34
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/HASTINGS1_zpse75e8c30.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/HASTINGS1_zpse75e8c30.jpg.html)

This pic was taken shortly before the squadron disbanded.

sandringham1
13th Jan 2015, 18:58
Avgas
I cannot help you with your questions regarding the Cod War operations other than say that the active T5 fleet had been whittled down to just TG503, TG505, TG511 and TG517.
I have only ever seen pictures of the fish symbols as applied to TG517.

Richard

WE992
13th Jan 2015, 21:36
I was lucky enough to fly in 505 once. Sadly it was the only one of the final four not to survive.

KJ994
14th Jan 2015, 00:48
Here is TG503 at Scampton on 24 June 1976, with four Cod War fish symbols just visible below the cockpit.

I was lucky enough, as a civilian and temporary ROC "recruit", to do a 4-hour trip in 503 that day, including a low level run across Exmoor, Bristol Channel, the Welsh Hills and Cumbria and over the Yorkshire Moors back to Scampton. Captain, Flt Lt Fred Hambley. Fred, if by any chance you lurk here: it may have been a routine day in the office for you, but for me it was a very memorable occasion. Thank you again!


http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo27/KJ994/Brize%201976/76-106web.gif (http://s358.photobucket.com/user/KJ994/media/Brize%201976/76-106web.gif.html)

ancientaviator62
14th Jan 2015, 06:44
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/Misc_0000192A_zps76cac86a.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/Misc_0000192A_zps76cac86a.jpg.html)

I think this is the Pershore Hastings but could easily be wrong, Taken from the Herc at Akrotiri with a VC 10 'escaping' !

evansb
14th Jan 2015, 07:11
Three generations. From a pilot's perspective, this is the best photo on this thread ever.

ancientaviator62
14th Jan 2015, 07:41
evansb,
thank you for your compliment. But just a case of right place, right time with for a change, a camera.

staircase
14th Jan 2015, 07:53
Ancient Aviator,

I would bet next weeks pension that the picture is of TG536 or TG568 from the bombing school.

They had 2 unmodified Hasting for crew training and 'transport support', and were allowed 'out' to various places for the weekend!

I would guess it was taken in the early 1970's, and I would be pretty sure the crew was in a bar somewhere!

brakedwell
14th Jan 2015, 08:58
Two of an older generation at Khormaksar in 1958

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/HastAden.jpg

Unfortunate incident at Lajes in December 1957 when WJ332, a mark 2 Hastings, broke free from it's picketing and rolled back into a Portuguese Air Force RB17 during a gale.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/GaledamageDecember1957_zps83b1af36.jpg

ancientaviator62
15th Jan 2015, 07:28
staircase,
I doubt that your pension is in peril ! As I implied in my caption I was not sure who owned the a/c. Thanks for the correction.

ancientaviator62
15th Jan 2015, 07:30
Brakedwell,
reminds me of the time at Lajes when our Herc pulled out the ground picket points and made a dash for freedom. Found next day at the fence but amazingly without damage.

Fareastdriver
15th Jan 2015, 09:31
Seeing we're going into Hasting with different generation aircraft here is three with a Valiant at Tripoli.

It's a bit mauvy because its Agfa that fades with time.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/fareastdriver/1-2-2010_016.jpg (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/fareastdriver/media/1-2-2010_016.jpg.html)

Dr Jekyll
15th Jan 2015, 09:38
An earlier generation perhaps, but the Hastings outlasted the Valiant by 12 years.

ancientaviator62
15th Jan 2015, 09:46
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/HASTINGSLAJES0002_zps322c5fe6.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/HASTINGSLAJES0002_zps322c5fe6.jpg.html)

A slightly more intact Hastings at Lajes.

brakedwell
15th Jan 2015, 10:27
Our bent Hastings looked ancient compared to the MATS aircraft passing through Lajes in 1957.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/Lajesflightline_zpsf09c4807.jpg

Also seems ancient looking from the inside out!
(Heading north from Nairobi 1958)

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/HastKen.jpg

India Four Two
15th Jan 2015, 10:41
brakedwell,

Your Lajes picture of the C-54s brings to mind something I've always wondered about. Why didn't HP design the Hastings with tricycle gear?

staircase
15th Jan 2015, 10:55
It did - Google Handley Page Hermes.

I reckon the question should have been why did the RAF not buy the one with the nose gear.

Stanwell
15th Jan 2015, 10:57
To do with the loading height for military cargo, wasn't it?

brakedwell
15th Jan 2015, 11:04
They did - It was called a Hermes, but only 29 were built. BOAC used them for a short time before they were passed down to the independents.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/ScreenShot2015-01-15at120209_zps1fe18d66.png

The RAF was lumbered with the tail wheel Hastings because the Army wanted an aircraft capable of carrying underslung loads.

India Four Two
15th Jan 2015, 11:42
brakedwell,

I never would have guessed that the Army were involved in the decision!

Wander00
15th Jan 2015, 14:59
BW - not sure I follow the last bit - ISTR there was a pannier for the Hastings, but surely it would have worked equally well with a tail or a nose wheel

brakedwell
15th Jan 2015, 15:22
W00
We used to drop underslung vehicles from the Hastings. The Army Heavy Air Despatch unit at Abingdon possessed an endless supply of battered Austin Champs, which we used to deposit on Watchfield with varying degrees of success. That's when I discovered a Champ can be reduced to 12" high if the parachutes fail to open! It was also possible to drop (small) field guns and trailers, but I never saw it done.

Wander00
15th Jan 2015, 15:47
OK, would love to see a photo, but still cannot understand why if the aircraft is going to have its fuselage roughly parallel from the ground immediately before rotation (and maintain load clearance from the ground), it matters whether the beast has a nose or tail wheel.

aeroid
15th Jan 2015, 15:48
I bet the guys on 99 wouldn't allow that registration these days.

JW411
15th Jan 2015, 15:53
It is my understanding that GAY was the last three of the radio callsign (in this case - MOGAY).

aeroid
15th Jan 2015, 15:57
When I joined the Hastings fleet in 1965 I was told that it was a hangover from the last little European disturbance when towing gliders was in vogue. There were still a lot of ex- WW2 top brass around in '65. You could ask a similar question as to why the Hercs originally had an astrodome - in a pressurised aircraft. Many an AQM, sorry, loady, refused to sleep on the top bunk!

aeroid
15th Jan 2015, 16:00
I always hoped for the callsign Mike Oscar Golf Golf Yankee!

joy ride
15th Jan 2015, 16:16
Until my first visit to Duxford about 15 years ago I had never heard of the Hastings, and then saw their one parked outside. I must admit that I was underwhelmed by its look, but at the same time found it curiously interesting.

I read up a little on it and the Hermes, but this thread has been really fascinating, great to read people's experiences with these old beasts! Many thanks.

aeroid
15th Jan 2015, 16:35
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l144/wol130/mat3057_zps6aec0fb1.jpg

The hercules before the hercules? Somewhere near Gib I think

aeroid
15th Jan 2015, 16:47
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l144/wol130/mat3083_zpsb11f997d.jpg
UK somewhere, Exercise Maydrop 20 May 1966

ancientaviator62
16th Jan 2015, 07:04
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/HASTINGSBERMUDA0003_zps7420cc60.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/HASTINGSBERMUDA0003_zps7420cc60.jpg.html)

Hastings at Bermuda, one of the nicer places we used to visit.

ancientaviator62
16th Jan 2015, 07:10
joy ride,
we had two different marks of Hastings in service during my time. The Mk 1A, with the higher set tailplane and external tanks and the Mk 2 with the lower set tailplane and different internal fuel arrangement negating the need for external tanks.

joy ride
16th Jan 2015, 07:19
Yes, I looked on Wiki yesterday and it mentions the different tailplanes and tanks.

ian16th
16th Jan 2015, 07:44
Hastings at Bermuda, one of the nicer places we used to visit. My last trip in a Hastings was to some of the worst places we visited!

Marham - Luqa - El Adem - Khartoum - Khormakser - Mauripur and back 3 weeks later.

ancientaviator62
16th Jan 2015, 10:17
My last Hastings trip was on December 21/22 1967 to Luqa and back via Abingdon. A/c was 343 and we were full of families coming home for Xmas.
We decorated the a/c with balloons etc which burst as we reached top of climb !
January 1968 I started the Hercules OCU but that is another story being told on the 'Hercules' thread.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/048c3a9d-2973-4f38-9061-314ecf232b98_zpsa5f551d4.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/048c3a9d-2973-4f38-9061-314ecf232b98_zpsa5f551d4.jpg.html)

Final Hastings Xmas card from Colerne.

staircase
16th Jan 2015, 12:40
I remember my first night trip, looking out of the Co’s window to see 5ft of flame coming out of each exhaust stub. Frightened me a bit until the following conversation;

‘eng – co pilot, amazing sight all the flame coming out of the exhaust stubs’

‘Yeah – a lot of new blokes think the thing is on fire first time they see it’

That’s all right then, back to eating the butties!

brakedwell
16th Jan 2015, 13:54
It is my understanding that GAY was the last three of the radio callsign (in this case - MOGAY).


Not so Jock, G was the 99 Sqn aircraft code. WJ332 happened to be AY. In those carefree days we were all gay, after a few beers of course :)


Sqn Markings 99_P (http://www.rafweb.org/SqnMark099.htm)

JW411
16th Jan 2015, 15:15
Well John, I don't think you can say that GAY was a 99 Sqn code for I have a photograph of WJ332 with the GAY code and the 53 Sqn diamond on the tail. (I am trying to post the photograph but I can't get into the URL for some obscure reason).

I also have a note in my book about 53 Sqn which states that "after the Berlin Airlift, Hastings aircraft carried the last three letters of the radio callsign in large letters behind the roundel".

So, I had always figured that GAY broke down as:

M = British Military Aircraft
O = Transport Command
G = Hastings Type
A = Unit (In this case, Lyneham Pool)
Y = Individual Aircraft (WJ332).

The other letter used by the Hastings was "J" (For example, JAZ was TG564). You may also remember that the letters used by the Argosy were "F" and "K".

I'll post the photograph of WJ332 when I can sort out my problems.

brakedwell
16th Jan 2015, 15:36
Not sure about that. I thought the G was our squadron letter when I was on 99 Hastings.

This image muddies the waters!

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/ScreenShot2015-01-16at163222_zps337d8cc2.png

JW411
16th Jan 2015, 16:05
It certainly does; I don't recall ever seeing "O" on a Hastings photograph but perhaps it was in addition to "G" and "J"?

Air Britain gives the history of TG551 as:

Dishforth/Topcliffe/Lyneham (53/99)/242 OCU/70/Lyneham (24/36)/70 then SOC 15.11.67.

Incidentally, I have just had a look in one of our albums and I have found yet another photograph of WJ332/GAY with the 53 Sqn diamond on the tail.

Looking at my 53 Sqn book, I see that I quoted the following examples:

GAC/TG604, GAF/WD491, GAJ/TG574, GAM/TG605, GAU/TG536, GAY/WJ332
JAB/TG529, JAM/WD488, JAY/WJ329, JAZ/TG564

l.garey
16th Jan 2015, 16:42
Brakedwell and JW411: happy New Year (a bit late).

I can't comment on Hastings codes, as I only ever flew in one (Lyneham-Gibraltar, and that was a Met1).
But I have notes on some Beverleys: XL148 of 242OCU was "Y" and carried MOBCY, 53's XB268 was "D" MOBXD, and XB284 was "H" MOBXH. I flew from Abingdon to Odiham in "H" and then on to participate in the Farnborough show in 1961, thanks to pals at Abingdon.
I think I recall that the MOBxx code was painted quite small on the nose, and was also on the instrument panel. I had assumed that the B was type, the C or X was unit, and the last letter was the aircraft code.

Laurence

brakedwell
16th Jan 2015, 16:44
You are right about the old callsign system dedicated to individual A/C


53 MODB

99 MOJA

53 & 99 MOGA

Its at the bottom of this:

List of RAF Squadron Codes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RAF_Squadron_Codes#Squadron_codes)

brakedwell
16th Jan 2015, 16:51
And the same to you Laurence.
As the signaller was in sole charge of the radios I can't remember much about the comms.

l.garey
17th Jan 2015, 07:03
A bit more about Mxxxx codes, including Hastings:

Hastings MOGCB at Changi in 1962 (http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?86535-Hastings-MOGCB-at-Changi-in-1962)

Laurence

JW411
17th Jan 2015, 10:42
http://www.frpilot.com/Dad/WJ332.jpg

Hopefully this will work. If it does, I'll try to post some more Hastings stuff this afternoon.

Fareastdriver
17th Jan 2015, 10:59
I have just posted a contribution from a 'harrym' that includes a photo of the demise of (TG)564 at Kai Tak in the early fifties.

Yuos can find it on the Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW11 thread in the Miltary Aviation section.

joy ride
17th Jan 2015, 11:00
Works fine!

brakedwell
17th Jan 2015, 11:07
Nice to see it in one piece! 53 sqn must have had it on charge before 99sqn as all 99's Hastings and crews were transferred from Lyneham to Colerne in January 1959, some time after 53 re-equiped with the Beverley.

JW411
17th Jan 2015, 13:23
http://www.frpilot.com/Dad/GAY.jpg

So here is the other shot that I found of WJ332/GAY in 53 Sqn colours.

JW411
17th Jan 2015, 13:28
http://www.frpilot.com/Dad/GAC.jpg

And here is one of 53 Sqn MOGAC/TG604.

ancientaviator62
17th Jan 2015, 14:12
JW411,
your last pic looks like a MK 1 before they were all modded to MK1A with the external tanks.

JW411
17th Jan 2015, 14:23
http://www.frpilot.com/Dad/Jeep1.jpg

This rather poor quality shot shows two Jeeps loaded on to the heavy beam underneath the fuselage ready for dropping.

JW411
17th Jan 2015, 14:27
http://www.frpilot.com/Dad/Jeep2.jpg

View from the front showing an anxious captain probably contemplating what he has let himself in for.

JW411
17th Jan 2015, 14:35
http://www.frpilot.com/Dad/Jeep3.jpg

And here is Hastings TG529/JAB running in to drop the Jeeps. You can see how beautifully streamlined the Jeeps are! I am told that an engine failure on take-off simply could not be contemplated.

brakedwell
17th Jan 2015, 14:52
I must have dropped around a dozen Champs, but can't remember being briefed about the dangers of an engine failure, however, second pilots weren't considered worth briefing in those days!

JW411
17th Jan 2015, 15:53
http://www.frpilot.com/Dad/JAM.jpg

And finally for today, a nice air-to-air photograph of WD488/JAM.

ian16th
17th Jan 2015, 15:57
I am told that an engine failure on take-off simply could not be contemplated. Having experienced a 'mag drop' and aborted T/O half way along Marham's main runway, I can imagine the trepidation on the flight deck when carrying the said jeep's.

An aside to this, on returning to the dispersal the Flt Eng came down the back asking if we had any Engine Fitters that knew the Hercules, 'No Chief only the Avon,' was the stern reply!

brakedwell
18th Jan 2015, 08:19
Thanks Jock for those remarkable photos. They bring back memories of frustrating times. (Undercarriage up, flap up and shut up!) The Heath Robinson systems on the underslung loads caused a lot of head scratching and fiddling about before we got airborne.

VX275
18th Jan 2015, 10:55
As I understand it the last time the Hastings dropped a Jeep was during Suez. By 1956 the UK heavy drop system was the MSP, which as the Beverley hadn't yet been cleared for the MSP, and all MSP drops were conducted for us by the USAF from C-119. Of course as the US didn't want to help us (officially anyway), the french or Isreal during Suez the heavy drop requirements of the assualt had to fall back on the crash pan system used on the Hastings. Luckily the AATDC at Old Sarum still had some support beams and the required parts to rig a jeep and a six pounder anti-tank gun for the drop in their museum.
The loads were rigged by a REME Sergeant who was allowed to go to Cyprus to see the loads off but was forbidden (much to his disgust) from going on the operation as he was required back at Old Sarum to help devise the method to be employed to drop some 105mm recoiless rifles given to the UK by the US (Remember officially the US was not helping us).

brakedwell
18th Jan 2015, 10:59
We were still dropping underslung loads (Austin Champs) from the Hastings in 1957/8.

JW411
18th Jan 2015, 15:22
I offer the following extract from my epistle (which would have mainly come from the 53 Sqn Operations Record Book):

"The entire squadron was now on standby while the politicians tried to decide what to do about the loss of their canal. Normal route flying and training was disrupted but concentrated support training started on 16 August (1956). The situation continued throughout September and October until three crews were finally sent out to Nicosia at the end of the month in order to be ready to take part in a possible airborne invasion of the Canal Zone. The British part in the operation was to be carried out using a fairly large force consisting of Hastings and Valetta aircraft.
The three aircraft, captained by F/L T C Waugh, F/L L V Dale and F/L W I Warmington, finally dropped elements of the 3rd Battalion, The Parachute Regiment on to El Gamil airfield, Port Said at first light on 5 November. As soon as the troops had secured the airfield and its perimeter, the honour of landing the first Hastings there fell to F/L Dale and his crew. A great deal has already been written about why this operation was a debacle from the political point of view, it also revealed the folly of not having an adequate heavy-drop capability. A few Hastings fitted with heavy beams had been provided but the normal fighting vehicle used by the Parachute Regiment at the time was the Austin Champ and the Hastings could only carry Jeeps. This meant that the troops had to go into battle with war-surplus vehicles and with which they were unfamiliar. The French forces on the other hand, were supported by rear-loading Nord Noratlas aircraft and were supplied with all of the equipment that they needed. Although Egyptian resistance only lasted about 24 hours, British casualties stood at 22 dead and 97 wounded. F/L Waugh and crew flying WJ332 landed at El Gamil on 4 December to collect the dead Parachute Regiment soldiers. Their bodies were taken to Blackbushe for burial at nearby Aldershot."

Several further casualty flights were made and everyone was home for Christmas.

53 Sqn became a Beverley squadron the following month.

brakedwell
18th Jan 2015, 17:11
Fascinating. Modified beams compatible with Austin Champs must have been rushed into service shortly after the Suez fiasco. I enjoyed a few pub crawls around Wiltshire with Tony Waugh (in his Borgward Isabella) when he waiting for a Britannia course early in 1959.

DougGordon
19th Jan 2015, 08:14
I'm currently researching the RAF and USAF involvement in the Middle East crisis in 1958. Information about the RAF involvement is sketchy. I do know that 70 Squadron Hastings were involved in airlifting paratroops to Amman and that other units were involved flying Hastings, Beverleys, Comets and Valettas.
I would like some first hand information about these and other RAF ops in the region at this time. If anyone who was involved has any particular memories to share I would like to see them.
Thanks, Doug.

JW411
19th Jan 2015, 08:29
http://www.frpilot.com/Dad/Jeep.jpg

I have just restarted re-reading Sandy Cavangh's book "Airborne to Suez". He mentions that they (3 Para) embarked on HMS "Theseus" to go to Cyprus (Famagusta) and then moved on to their base near Nicosia. He mentions that their Austin Champs went with them as deck cargo so the Champs obviously made it as far as Cyprus but it would seem that the RAF did not have the proper gear to attach them to a Hastings (at the time).

There is a photograph in his book showing a Jeep freshly delivered to El Gamil airfield still sitting on its platform. I'm sure you will agree that this is definitely a product of Mr Willys and not Mr Austin.

brakedwell
19th Jan 2015, 08:45
The Jordan and Lebanon crisis of 1958

Doug, I think we have been over this before.

DougGordon
19th Jan 2015, 08:54
I know! I'm revisiting! It's something I keep coming back to, but I thought it might just ring a bell, specifically with Hastings aircrew as they were involved. Perhaps I'm trying to find a story where there is none. Operations at this time could have been so routine so as not to have registered much of a memory.
I have so much material about the US involvement in the crisis, I'd like to redress the balance a bit.

brakedwell
19th Jan 2015, 09:15
The Jordan Operation was routine - a routine cock up :rolleyes:

Cornish Jack
19th Jan 2015, 11:05
The Jordan Operation was routine - a routine cock up
Amen to that! ... yet another political input that 'seemed like a good idea at the time':ugh: Some snippets remain in memory - the U.S. 124's ops boss was a Master Sergeant, ours somewhat higher echelon! Mental picture of our S Eng O on a Triumph motor bike, sans helmet, sans shirt and oil stained getting down close and technical - impressive, even if not good practice:ok::D. Calling downwind in the Bev and being given 'Number 12 to Finals':bored:

filbey1944
20th Jan 2015, 04:29
This thread brought back memories of a trip to Changi. Twas late 1966/early 1967 was lucky enough to score a place in the gan cricket team for the FEAF cricket championships. Not for us a jet or whispering giant, but the Hastings. Seem to recall it was around 13 hrs each way, we bounced our way to changi and back just below the clouds. Smokers were allowed a smoke in the loadys cubby hole. Consternation in the card school when someone dropped a card and it disappeared through a crack in the floor. Entry door was not the best fit, bit windy. Don't remember a lot about the cricket but a good time had by all and it saved me using leave for my mid tour break. Ah happy days.😃

scotbill
24th Jan 2015, 13:07
Don't have any personal experience of the 1958 Middle East but in April 1957 acted as 2nd Pilot on a Hastings expedition to Habbaniya - ready to evacuate Mafraq as Hussein's tanks were approaching.

We eventually landed there on a brand new massive runway. New RAF stations were often late in organising married quarters but this had been sorted in Mafraq.
In fact the only buildings were married quarters.
Station HQ was in a MQ; the officers mess was in a MQ; etc!

Eventually we flew back to Lyneham with 12 tons of u/s wireless equipment so that it could be properly written off in the UK.

Really made us feel the expedition had been worthwhile. :rolleyes:

(2nd pilot was the lowest form of animal life on the aeroplane)

DGAC
28th Jan 2015, 16:15
Hastings Dispersal
7pel03LJHBo

Stream Take-Off
aGasao_J2xA

topgas
28th Jan 2015, 16:21
Happened to switch TV on, showing The Red Beret, with paras jumping out of TG602, a C1. The film was released in 1953 and ASN shows it crashed in January that year following in flight breakage due to "failure to follow AD and SBs"

Rosevidney1
28th Jan 2015, 17:43
Good find DGAC but I cannot imagine less suitable music to accompany the footage!

DGAC
28th Jan 2015, 18:29
I know what you mean but I didn't know how to get rid of it. Just have to turn the speakers off!!

dh108
28th Jan 2015, 21:53
My father was, I think, a loadmaster on Hastings in the early 50s - National Service. Never talked about his time in the RAF, so I'm enjoying reading this thread. I'm not that interested in techie things, more into the personal stories, what life was like.

Please, former Hastings crews, write more! There'll be people like me who want to read it.

Regards.

ian16th
29th Jan 2015, 07:25
DH108

They were not Loadmasters in those days, the job title was Air Quartermaster, their aircrew badge was QM

http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz108/ian16th/AQM.jpeg

joy ride
29th Jan 2015, 07:30
Nice evocative videos (despite the light music!), thanks!

wardie
29th Jan 2015, 08:03
My father was Bill Ward and I know he was on Hastings as a W/O on at least 1066 Sqn. Am looking for his logbooks to check dates and Sqns

OUAQUKGF Ops
29th Jan 2015, 09:01
When I was with BIA at Gatwick (73-78) we had a delightful skipper 'Frank' Francis who had flown Hastings and possibly C130s based at Colerne.
When I knew him he supplemented his salary by buying cars at auction and selling them on. Does anybody remember him from their Hastings days?

staircase
29th Jan 2015, 10:24
Well what was it like to fly?

It has been over 40 years but here are a few thoughts. The first is that the flight deck had 4 (local flights) or 5 of us. Captain, Co-pilot, Nav, Eng and the Sig. You entered usually by the main door on the port side and completed the ‘cardiac climb’ to the flight deck. The flight deck by modern standards was huge, with 2 enormous pilots seats in green leather

The pre start checks completed, the engineer primed the fuel, pressed the starter button and booster coil, and turned over an engine ((8 blades) to ensure no hydraulic locking caused by oil in the bottom cylinders). The engine started and was turned over (at I think 1500rpm) to warm the oil and cylinder head.

Taxing was by asymmetric brake and power, and was like most Hastings operating, an acquired art. The brake was pneumatic and inflated a rubber sack inside the hub to push brake linings against a drum. This sack was prone to burst if allowed to get hot. You lined up on a runway and locked the tail wheel. The throttles were advanced by the Captain using differing amounts of power in each engine to try and keep the thing straight until the tail came up, and you got some rudder control. Take off power was max RPM (was it 2800?) and 56 inches of boost.

There was no V1, there was an ‘unstick’ speed. Once it was in a shallow climb, the gear was retracted by the Co, and at safety speed rated power was ordered, and was set by the eng. (2400 / 46 inches). When safe to do so (300 feet?) the take off flap was retracted

It was not pressurised so we tended to fly around the 8 to 10 thousand feet level, changing super charger gear on the way up (once again memory – when the boost started to fall off at about 8000 feet?). I seem to remember cruise descending. Cruise boost was 36 inches, and the fuel used at this setting was much reduced from the fuel used at 44 inches. There was a restriction on boost between 36 and 44 (?) inches. The heavier you were the more power you needed to cruise. Since cruise boost was 36 inches then the extra power was delivered by more RPM. This had the effect that the heavier you were the higher you cruised, and this resulted in lower cruise levels as the weight reduced.

Straight and level was fine, but the ailerons and elevators were very heavy. Auto pilot was very basic straight and level – no height or heading lock. It was very noisy. If it was raining outside, it leaked like a sieve and you got soaked. I well remember flying with a raincoat over my flying suit. All our pilots carried some device to scrape the frost off the inside of the windscreen. Conversation without intercom was all but non existent.

Anti ice was a porous leading edge and fluid was pumped to the relevant surfaces, (including?) the props. Ice would fly off the props hitting the side of the aeroplane with a great bang! Engine carb de-ice was one switch for all 4 engines. You waited until at least 2 engines started to ‘cough’ and then you switched on the hot air. The throttles would also freeze. I remember at the end of one long descent asking for 30 inches and getting nothing, resulting in another 500 feet of unplanned descent towards a very cold looking Irish sea before they unfroze.

It was also, by modern standards slow (172kts indicated – about 210 true) and inefficient. UK to Cyprus non stop would be 10 to 11 hours and the best part of 3000 gallons, leaving very little in the way of payload. It was also interesting to see the reserves at destination distributed around the 14 tanks. 30 gallons a tank looks very like empty to a new Co.

And as for landing. The physical strength required to round out came as a great shock. As a result the eng worked the throttles, and you called for him to close the power (‘slow cut eng’) when you thought you were there. You could 3 point it, but the tail and rudder was then ‘sheltered’ by the fuselage. You could do a wheelie, landing just on the main wheels, and let the tail come down gently when you thought you had control of the thing. Thought you had control, because you were never really sure it would not be off to the grass. I remember one co pilot leaving the runway, getting back on to the runway again, and then taxing round to the dispersal where the ground crew were waiting with a fire hose, to hose off the mud.

It was all very entertaining and a long time ago, but it made at lot more sense when I read ‘Fate is the Hunter’!

DGAC
29th Jan 2015, 10:56
I seem to remember that once in the circuit, the Handling Pilot (HP) called out to the Flight Engineer (FE) the power setting that he required i.e the "Boost" in inches. In an ideal situation, the sequence of calls from the end of the downwing leg should have been "two-six inches" followed by the same response from the FE who was making the power changes. Then "two-two inches", then "one-eight inches" and finally "slow-cut", at which point the HP rounded out as the FE slowly closed the throttles. The aircraft would then nicely settle down or commence a series of ever increasing bounces referred to as an "undamped phugoid". On one occasion during a copilot training detail, the training captain was heard to exclaim, "Copilot, the call is slow-cut not , oh ****!!"

brakedwell
29th Jan 2015, 11:05
Thanks for that staircase.
I was only a lowly second pilot who managed to escape from the dead end job after fourteen months, so I never got a chance to handle the damned thing! I do remember flight engineers looking out of their side window and adjusting the rate of the "slow cut" as they judged the height of the starboard main wheel above the runway. If the landing was a greaser they claimed the credit, if it was a bad one they blamed the captain!
I also remember the top of descent "get rid of the dog ends" ritual. In flight catering used to supply aluminium tins (red & white) of OXO cubes in the rations, which we used as ashtrays. My job was to dispose of the evidence by throwing it out of my DV window as we descended through five thousand feet. It usually resulted in a loud clang and a red mark when it hit part of the airframe or number three prop!

l.garey
29th Jan 2015, 11:11
The last three stories are superb. Can't help chuckling. Makes my 2 x 6 hours Lyneham-Gibraltar, return, (courtesy of ATC) pale into total insignificance.
Lovely stuff!

Laurence

DGAC
29th Jan 2015, 11:20
Here's another story for you.
Before setting out on a long overseas trip, the crew assembled the day beforehand for a briefing by the captain, followed by full checks of the aircraft including engine ground runs. On the trip in question, the newly promoted ex-Cranwell Squadron Leader, was being route checked by a very long in the tooth, highly experienced, Fliight Lieutenant from Lancashire, commonly known as "Pork pie Jack", which is another story. Now Jack was a heavy smoker and the young Captain finished his briefing by saying "And as per Pilots Notes, there will be no smoking on the flight deck during this trip." A broad Lancashire voice from the back of the room was then heard to say, "Ast got f***ing" news for thee lad"!!

Blacksheep
29th Jan 2015, 13:11
As 'V' Bomber ground crew in the sixties, we thought ourselves very fortunate to get a nice smooth, quiet Hastings as transport for a detachment or an 'Exercise Micky Finn'.

The alternative transportation device was a Beverley :}

One year, the No.1 Group Pipe Band went to Wildenrath by Hastings and on boarding for the return flight, when the crew turned up, one had his arm in a sling, one had a pot leg and was on crutches and another had his eyes bandaged up. He was led up the aisle into the flight deck by the AQM, who was dressed in Mess Kit. The 'crippled' crew managed to get the beast started and we took off for home. After settling in cruise, the nattily suited AQM yelled "Gentlemen, lunch is served!" and began throwing our lunch packs at us.

A right bunch of comedians. They hadn't really been in a car crash, but they certainly had us worried at first.

Cornish Jack
29th Jan 2015, 14:35
a very long in the tooth, highly experienced, Fliight Lieutenant from Lancashire, commonly known as "Pork pie Jack"
Could be wrong but that description sounds mightily like the (in)famous Cap'n Jack Huntingdon, ex Master Pilot, sent to Jurby for a 'blood change' together with John Loveridge, also M Plt. These two were A Cat instructors at Dishforth when Auntie Betty decided that all aircraft were to be captained by commissioned officers. Jack was A Cat on Hastings and John held similar on both Hastings and Beverley. I cannot imagine what the Jurby conversion was like!!

staircase
29th Jan 2015, 14:45
Well, if the thread is still of interest perhaps a ‘war story’.

Your hero was getting an ‘intermediate co-pilots course’ consisting of about 10 hours concentrated training. The first trip on the first day I KNEW an engine would fail. When ‘sir’ walked past the engineer’s position, he would leave a note to the effect that when safety speed was called the engineer was to switch off the number 4 injector, and as a result the engine would stop. Non of your pretend stuff in those days!

I was well up to speed with the drills and knew what to do. A swing followed by a great boot full of rudder to keep it straight and then the immediate actions that one learnt of by heart;

1. Throttle closed
2. RPM lever to feather
3. Feathering button pressed
4. Injector cut off to cut off.
5. Fuel master cock off
6. Ignition off

If you say them fast as in 1 close the throttle 2 rpm to feather 3 feathering button pressed then what is below, makes a bit of sense.

I used to recite them even when the wife and I were…….to make sure they were word perfect.

We got airborne and the swing occurred resulting in;

‘Eng., engine failure starboard side – check Ts and Ps’

‘Cylinder head temp falling on number 4’

OK says your hero, who then did the following. He closed number 1 throttle, placed number 2 feathering lever through the feather gate, pressed number 3 feathering button and of course number 4 was already ‘dead’.

We were now flying with number 1 at idle, 2 feathered, 3 was still running at power (the feather button popped straight out again against the oil pressure) and 4 was, as I said above, dead! There were 2 sinking feelings, one outside and the other in my chest.

‘Sir’ says ‘OK I have control. Eng, put all the levers back where he found them and also start 4’.

We went round and landed, taxied to the take off position and he says;

‘Nav what is the time?’

’10.08 captain’

‘No it is not nav. It is 10.00. The last 8 mins did not happen. Now lets all relax. We know we can do this, so lets go and do it again properly’

At the end of the 10 hours he sent me ‘solo’ with another co-pilot in his seat. What a man, and I remembered his attitude and understanding when I did the CFS course a few years later.

brakedwell
29th Jan 2015, 15:15
A broad Lancashire voice from the back of the room was then heard to say, "Ast got f***ing" news for thee lad"!!

Ops called us out at short notice to fly an Admiral from Northolt to Lossiemouth (HMS Fulmar), to carry out an annual inspection after his "admiral's barge" went u/s.

Several HM Customs Officers lived in the Officers at Lyneham and mixed well with aircrew in the bar; unfortunately the friendly relationship broke down after several sneaky rummages and the throwing of the book at a Shackleton crew when they arrived from Gibraltar with a few extra (fake) watches!

We arrived at HMS Fulmar and were marshalled to a position in front of an impressive parade fronted by a RN Captain.

Five minutes later the AQM burst into the flight deck and said, "the bloody door has jammed, can somebody help me?"

Our Flt Lt navigator, an amusing and well built Yorkshireman with the initials P.S volunteered to help.

After a struggle they managed to force the main door open. P.S looked down at the scrambled egged, be-medalled Captain waiting at the bottom of the steps and exclaimed in a loud Yorkshire voice, "f**king hell, customs!"

India Four Two
29th Jan 2015, 16:40
"f**king hell, customs!"

bd,

You've made my day. Thanks. :ok:

dh108
29th Jan 2015, 20:18
DH108

They were not Loadmasters in those days, the job title was Air Quartermaster, their aircrew badge was QM




Thanks Ian16th,

Yes, that must be it. He died over 20 years ago, so the few measly snippets are a bit lost in the fog of time now. He was born in 1932, so I guess his National Service started around 1951(ish).

The few bits of info I can recall are:

The job involved CofG calculations

Possibly based at either or both of RAF Lyneham and Dishforth

Airspeed Oxfords being very noisy

An incident with a Hastings propeller breaking free and cutting into the fuselage, I've found a record of this online. I don't think he was on the plane, but he knew about it.

No mention of foreign trips, but anyone on Hastings must have been all over the world surely?

Regards,
Andy

ancientaviator62
30th Jan 2015, 07:27
dh108,
I was an AQM on Hastings but just did the one tour before converting to Lockheed's masterpiece.
As has been mentioned the Hastings was unpressurised so at any height above 10000 feet oxygen was normally required. A trip from Akrotiri to Khormaksar would involve cruising heights well above this. Getting to the toilets at the back of the a/c could be a scramble as the small portable oxy bottles were of very limited duration.
In these circumsatances pax would be on oxygen in their seats and the regulations stipulated that they had to stay awake. You can imagine how difficult this was on a night flight !
The Hastings sloping floor did not make for easy loading, especially vehicles etc. The arrival of the Hercules was 'the great leap forward' IMHO.

goudie
30th Jan 2015, 07:59
My first flight in a Hastings was from Akrotiri to Shajah via Tehran.
First impression was how bloody noisy the clattering engines were on take-off!
For part of the trip we had to wear those awful oxygen masks.
In-flight catering consisted of a stale roll with sliced egg and a lettuce leaf.
There was a tea urn down the rear. Smoking was forbidden.

On the other hand, returning to Akrotiri from a small detachment to Idris, we were given seats on the NEAF CinC's Hastings, who happened to be returning from a visit there. He ensured we were well looked after on that trip.

brakedwell
30th Jan 2015, 08:41
As has been mentioned the Hastings was unpressurised so at any height above 10000 feet oxygen was normally required. A trip from Akrotiri to Khormaksar would involve cruising heights well above this.

These photos taken on a Bahrain Nicosia leg show how near the mountains we were!

Mount Ararat:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/MountAraratNorthernTurkey-1.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/OverTurkey10000Ft.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/OverNorthernTurkey10000feet.jpg

ancientaviator62
30th Jan 2015, 09:25
brakedwell,
thank you for those very evocative pictures. I had forgotten quite how close they were. I recall several trips at night in thunderstorms over that route. According to my log book the Akrotiri-Khormaksar leg took around nine hours. Seemed to go on forever at night.

Barksdale Boy
30th Jan 2015, 14:38
When Giant Voice was cancelled in 1972, OC Waddo, 'Des", cast around for a way to compensate the four understandably disappointed crews. He hit upon a long-weekend trip to Wildenrath. Those who were able to persuade their wives that this was a normal training exercise made their way uncertainly at sparrows', after a typical Friday night Happy Hour, to Fox Trot dispersal where a Hastings awaited. A magnificent creature appeared in the doorway with luxuriant white hair sprouting unrestrainedly from under a hydraulically soaked SD hat. Fixing us with a jaundiced eye he bellowed, "Skip, the f@#$&ing pax are here". Sort of set the tone for the whole weekend.

ancientaviator62
1st Feb 2015, 07:40
BB,
if you flew in a Hastings in 1972 then it was probably a T5 OF '1066 Flight' from Lindholme. So one of your own from Bomber Command.
The Transport/ Air Support Command Hastings were all stood down in 1967/8 as the Hercules entered service.

brakedwell
1st Feb 2015, 08:56
BB,
if you flew in a Hastings in 1972 then it was probably a T5 OF '1066 Flight' from Lindholme. So one of your own from Bomber Command.
The Transport/ Air Support Command Hastings were all stood down in 1967/8 as the Hercules entered service.



And Transport Command/Air Support Command Loadmasters were far too sophisticated to behave in such a crude manner :E

Lancman
1st Feb 2015, 14:22
What's all this nonsense about inches of boost? In my day on Hastings “boost” was measured in good 16 ounce pounds per sensible square inch and there were two types, plus or minus. Your namby-pamby inches of mercury were for arty-farty manifold air pressure.

staircase
1st Feb 2015, 15:40
Yeah yeah I know!

We young 'whipper snappers' in our 60's should know better. Certainly in the latter days of flying the thing, the gauge was in inches of mercury. I was told if you want to refer to boost, double the boost required and add 32 and that would give you inches of M. (Roughly)

Nice to see there are still some of the grumpy old s*ds around to keep us on our toes! Was your airspeed indicator in MPH!

1066 had a couple of mark ones in 1972, (TGs 536 / 568) so it may have been one of them that went to Germany that Saturday morning.

trevor hope
1st Feb 2015, 16:09
I flew in.Hastings TG528 at colerne in 1967 24 sqd,I was in 93 sqd Bath ATC.On the flight was SAC Holly (Buddy),anyone know what happened to him ?.. I still work in 24s old hanger,on Grob Tutors !!! Ah Hastings days !!!!!!!!!!

brakedwell
1st Feb 2015, 16:20
1066 had a couple of mark ones in 1972, (TGs 536 / 568) so it may have been one of them that went to Germany that Saturday morning.

TG536 was with 242 OCU at Dishforth in 1957. I flew down to Abingdon in 536 with Jack Huntingdon on 19th November 1957 - 3 days of day/night para dropping, formation photos and air experience flights. I never did see the photos!

Lancman
1st Feb 2015, 17:06
No! No! No! “add 32” is for Centigrade to Fahrenheit! :). End of grumpy voice.



One of the reasons for longer sector times was that the Hastings had to be flown around mountains instead of just ignoring them. You probably remember flogging down the Rhone/Saone corridor or popping out into the Mediterranean through the Carcassone Gap over near Spain, which made it a long way to Luqa, El Adem, or Nicosia.

Prangster
1st Feb 2015, 17:34
Don't know about TPTB stopping the ATC climbing all over the beasts but I flew in one from Lindholme about 1968

brakedwell
1st Feb 2015, 18:06
What's all this nonsense about inches of boost? In my day on Hastings “boost” was measured in good 16 ounce pounds per sensible square inch and there were two types, plus or minus. Your namby-pamby inches of mercury were for arty-farty manifold air pressure.. Your namby-pamby inches of mercury were for arty-farty manifold air pressure.

It was pounds when I was on Hastings in 1957/8/9, in fact I was always under the impression that only American piston engines used inches.

staircase
1st Feb 2015, 19:29
Lancman. Good try at a wind up old chap, but double and add 32 has nothing to do with temp. (well almost nothing) and all to do with sea level pressure, and was always just a back of the fag packet bit conversion.

Do I remember the flog through France - sure do!

But our Hastings did have gauges in inches and an earlier post mentions power settings in inches when downwind and onto finals to 'slow cut eng'.

I never thought this thread would make me feel so young!

JW411
1st Feb 2015, 19:48
A Hastings yarn:

Brakedwell mentioned PS in a previous post as one of the funniest men he had ever flown with. I totally agree. Here is a story that PS once told me. He had already done a few thousand hours of navigating on the Hastings when he got posted to 48 Sqn in Changi.

"I were crewed up with this youth".

First trip with said youth and they are northbound to HK in the middle of the night somewhere abeam Saigon.

"I were sat there with me feet up on't ADFs when youth comes up".

"Where's your log and chart, said he?"

"They're on't table in front of me. Why?"

"It's ma coostom every hour on't hour to check and sign navigator's log".

"Fook off, you're not old enough to have coostoms" said PS, but he were right serious.

Not another word was said and PS left it until the end of their 2-year tour and they were being dined-out.

Pete got to his feet and asked the PMC if he could ask the youth why it was that he had checked and signed his log 1,659 times every hour, on the hour, underneath the Gee-fix for Dishforth regardless of where they were on the planet!

ancientaviator62
2nd Feb 2015, 11:25
trevor hope,
TG 528 now resides in comfortable retirement at Duxford. She is now in the colours worn during Op Plainfare.

Fitter2
2nd Feb 2015, 19:00
The unaccountable eagerness of ATC Cadets to be airborne in anything that flew was well catered for in Yorkshire in the 1950s. I used to hitchhike every weekday of the Summer holidays to the reachable RAF Station visited longest ago; Dishforth being on the list added a lot of hours in Hastings (and Beverleys), although elsewhere Valetta, Varsity, Lincoln and one trip in a Comet 4 air test when I wasn't fortunate enough to blag a ride in a Chipmunk or Piston Provost.

Herod
2nd Feb 2015, 19:26
Double and add 32 is reasonably close (multiply by 9/5 and add 32), but today's Times goes one better. They quote a temperature of 80C (160F). I guess the sub went to a "progressive" school.

trevor hope
2nd Feb 2015, 19:50
Ancientaviator62
Many Thanks for the info on 528. On the 19th Feb 1974 Hastings TG536 landed at 10.40 for the last time at Colerne. It stayed at the aircraft museum unit until Colerne and the museum closed - SAD ! - March 1976. 536 ended its days at RAF Catterick fire pits. 71 mu cut it up to transport it there. They even removed the sign on the fuselage which said this aircraft is to be preserved as a memorial to the Berlin Airlift. On a good note many parts went on to form the Halifax at Elvington.
Anyone know which Hastings came into Colerne to pick up the crew of 536 ?

staircase
2nd Feb 2015, 20:36
I see from my log book that I was the Co-pilot on the crew that delivered it to Colerne, but that since we were passengers back to Scampton, I did not log which one came to pick us up and take us home.

If anyone would like the crews names them send me a PM.

ancientaviator62
3rd Feb 2015, 12:24
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/HASTINGS_zps5e05b1bb.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/HASTINGS_zps5e05b1bb.jpg.html)

A postcard showing TG 528 at the now defunct Skyfame Museum at Staverton. This is how she looked shortly after 'demob' so exactly as when Trevor Hope flew in her. Luckily she was saved and preserved and is now inside at Duxford.

Proplinerman
3rd Feb 2015, 15:52
And here is how TG528 looks today:


https://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/5379823349/in/photolist-9arScW-9cp13Z-pbyprk-ci2HHy-8vbscS-97w341-9xo2fj

ancientaviator62
4th Feb 2015, 06:36
Proplinerman,
very nice pic thanks. You can clearly see the highset of the tailplane on the CMk 1. It was almost level with the 'cheat' linre on the CMK 2.

aeroid
22nd Feb 2015, 21:09
I recall that Jack H was never happier than when he was traing young lads. Many was the time at Colerne when he would taxi in and his request was usually for some more co-pilots, pork pies and 20 fags.
There was also the story of Jack walking in one day breathing fire and brimstone. After much questioning it discovered that the bank had sent his bank statement to his wife by mistake. Oh that we could have someone like him in this PC controlled world!

DeanoP
4th Dec 2015, 22:11
Slow Cut Over the Fosse Way 24 Sqn. Colerne. No 4 feathered. Committed to landing

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1325/scan_4_3ecdf2fcc5433e91579cda879d901beab5e663da.jpeg

36Sqn at Colerne
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1136/pict0002_2cbd3a97f606056ce118e6093736f3b9e1d47d04.jpeg

DeanoP
4th Dec 2015, 22:34
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1098x1257/img011_copy_5d8c10b551f1d83b0eadcf035fab1e23c52392b2.jpeg

ancientaviator62
5th Dec 2015, 07:44
Dean,
thank you for the wonderful evocative pictures of the Hastings. Ah memories !

washoutt
5th Dec 2015, 13:50
Brakedwell wrote on the 15th of Januari:

They did - It was called a Hermes, but only 29 were built.

regarding why the Hastings did not have a tricycle landinggear. But to my view, the Hermes looks like a quite modified design, with a new front section, and the engines higher up on the wing. Of course, a taildragger will have a somewhat lower empty weight, the tailwheel is smaller and lighter.
What interests me as an engineer is:
Why did the Hastings have such low placed engines? The thrust-line is well below the wing plane, while almost all other prop aircraft have their thrust-line in the plane of the wing.
Can anybody shed any light on this characteristic?

DeanoP
5th Dec 2015, 22:11
Whilst on 24Sqn circa 65/66 I heard that Jack was route checking a young captain from Luqa to Lyneham and going north towards Elba, Jack asked the captain what he would do if an engine failed. The captain replied, 'Divert to Ponza' to which Jack replied, 'Fxxxing Ponza! Fxxxcking E cat'!!!


Perhaps I should explain, to those not in the know, that the Island of Ponza is a small rocky outcrop which in those days, had only an NDB and no airfield.

Jack H is the Hastings Jack Huxxxxgdon

DeanoP
5th Dec 2015, 22:27
Gander terminal after a flight from Lajes. En route o/h Bermuda 10hour flight to Nassau. At Nassau we shuttled to Belize rotating troops. Accommodation was in Nassau at the Royal Victoria hotel which with flying every other day made a very pleasant 2 week holiday.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1227/pict0004_87ec4f04aa1817db89200e0a19fd18d273d5bc7f.jpeg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1136/pict0007_acce37da6a6924abe90bc193a3bc70b8789c1f1c.jpeg

ancientaviator62
6th Dec 2015, 07:59
Dean,
ref your Ponza story, I met the unfortunate pilot a few years later. I got the impression his career never recovered from the incident.

Herod
6th Dec 2015, 11:40
I don't think I've posted this before, but if Jack ended up with AirUK, the last I heard he was retired on the island of Mull. He may still lurk on here, user name jackharr.

JW411
6th Dec 2015, 11:48
I don't think Jack H ever set foot in a Hastings. He was an Argosy man (as was I).

ancientaviator62
6th Dec 2015, 12:03
JW411,
I can assure you that the Jack H. to which Dean refers was indeed a Hastings man and afterwards Hercules. I was at Colerne when the Ponza incident happened and the story is true.

brakedwell
6th Dec 2015, 12:48
I flew with Flight Sergeant Huntingdon four times when he was a Hastings instructor on 242 OCU at Dishforth in 1957.

JW411
6th Dec 2015, 14:36
I wasn't talking about Jack Hunt, I was talking about Jack Harr as mentioned by Herod a couple of posts ago (#240).

cliver029
7th Dec 2015, 20:11
That picture brings back memories I was on 36 for a couple of years 66-68 before being banished to the wilds of East Anglia and the NBS Bay at Marham:mad:

We did several trips around the Carib via Keflavik Gander and Bermuda. one in particular stands out, climbing out from Colerne early one foggy morning the auto pilot went U/S and seeing as one of the senior drivers onboard was on a promise in Nassau and determined to get there the cry went out anybody done any flying, yours truly was then a keen member of the Bannerdown fraternity said gliding any good? get up front and sit in this seat they said and keep your feet of the rudder pedals (that was after I had scattered the copilot and his imprest(?) around the back of the aircraft) so on the long boring bits I "drove" the plane.

It got better, said senior driver really did like the ammenities in Nassau and so somehow the astrodome developed an omminous crack which meant flying a replacement out via BOAC a week later, the trip was then complete with something called :)a mag drop as we were about to leave which involved spending much time on the end of the taxyway running engines up and down and annoying all the commercial pilots behind us in their very very shiny fastjets who wanted to be anywhere other than behind a smoking Hastings:D:D:D

brakedwell
7th Dec 2015, 20:26
I seem to remember mag drops could be induced be switching off one set of plugs for the last hour of the flight :E

DeanoP
7th Dec 2015, 22:50
Hastings Nav Desk note the 'Gee' indicator unit.


LH side of desk shows MOJZL which I believe from earlier posts may be the a/c ident.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1340x2000/pict0014_cd0942a8edeab93ad30ea18fe0ea03ea25659911.jpeg

DeanoP
8th Dec 2015, 00:08
Club Class.
Spare crews down the back. Travel in civilian clothes was the order of the day. I left the aircraft at Khormaksar and so, unfortunately, did not see any of the action around Ndola and Lusaka. As I was so disappointed they detached me to the Military Sponsored Air Service, flying BEA Viscounts up and down the Berlin Corridors!

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/pict0013_1__81cf8f999f52439c0b0a44cbcf85eb0e1a5ca38f.jpeg

Routing from El Adem to Khormaksar down the Gulf of Suez as shown on topo.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1300x2000/pict0003_634850d8c24ed6683e4f82515499e51078519da9.jpeg


Possibly approaching reporting point B55A

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1351/pict0008_8__2f778552591b9d0daba9277077ab471de4e480e0.jpeg

Following photos en route along the Red Sea

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/pict0004_001fd420c8bf8ae1626bb54e62a4abe0dadd0d67.jpeg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1117/pict0006_11__157181ddf616a02493f31fbfc14fbdd52f44a542.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1429/pict0009_2f4bd15bdf620c809e58cc62eb75239df32178e1.jpeg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/pict0001_1__d147e2d8f62b1626fad5051ef1909df828e17f6a.jpeg

ancientaviator62
8th Dec 2015, 07:38
Dean,
thanks for another set of great pics. The one where they are playing cards down the back chimes with my similar pic on the Hercules thread. Nothing changes but the airframe.

Cornish Jack
8th Dec 2015, 14:12
mag drops could be induced be switching off one set of plugs for the last hour of the flight
or, similarly, during taxying:= DAMHIK!!:E