Removing passenger side door cessna 172S

[QJB]

Hey,

Have to do an aerial photography shoot tomorrow and I need to remove the passenger side door on the company C172S. Is there any specific way to do this properly, the hinge pins are not of the type that can be removed.

Thanks,

J

[baron_beeza]

Hi, I am having to read between the lines a little here.
I think the legal answer would be to get the maintenance facility involved.
Probably asap also, given that it is Friday afternoon.

Some regulatory authorities permit correctly trained pilots to perform the task and carry out the appropriate paperwork, I am guessing it does not apply in this case.
Similarly, the company system of maintenance may also allow this but there will normally be similar provisos regarding training and paperwork.

I suggest a quick call to your engineering facility will solve all, they will advise on the requirements and may even want to carry out the job themselves.

Naturally there will be any number of alternate methods of going about it...
all will require the PIC to be aware of the Flight Manual requirements.

Enjoy the flight, hope the weather is kind..

[urkidnme]

This is dragging up on long ago buried memory cells so use this only as a means of suggestion and places to start.

Have a look in the aircrafts flight manual,they usually have a section on door removal from memory.
I would suggest you give the engineers who service the aircraft a call or someone else of authority regardless,there isnt a lot you are able to remove these days without an Engineering Order

Hope this helps,safe flying and remember to check your seatbelt! ;)

[Horatio Leafblower]

QJB - surely your Chief Pilot would be able to show you the relevant sections of the Operations Manual? :suspect:

[sisemen]

There are 3 acceptable methods of removing the passenger door:

1. Let the maintenance company do it

2. Let the maintenance company do it

3. Let the maintenance company do it

Then you know it's legal, it's documented, and it's been done properly.

[Peter Fanelli]

Don't forget to make sure it has a flight manual approval for operation with the door off, and is vertical air photography still a commercial op?

[quagmire]

If the pins aren't the easily removable type then chances are there's no flight manual appendix that permits the operation. Not a big percentage 172s i've seen have door-off approval.
Personally I've very rarely had the need to remove a door when conducting photography ops.

[mcgrath50]

It should be legal for a pilot under Schedule 8? Unless your operation doesn't fit under that.

Although the Sched says something about being competant etc. and if you are asking on PPrune I would say you aren't and should get someone else to do it ;)

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Have you explored the idea of taking the screw out of the window strut, and then - at a 'safe' speed - open the window in flight to take your photos.

You might even find that the airflow will keep the window 'up' against the wing skin.....and give your photo person somewhere to rest the arms against whilst taking the shots.

'Tis safer too.....

Used to work for moi....even in a '210'...

Cheers:ok:

[Plow King]

Have you explored the idea of taking the screw out of the window strut, and then - at a 'safe' speed - open the window in flight to take your photos

I concur Griffo, there's really not a great deal to be gained by whipping the door off on 172s and the like (assuming the RH window opens on the S model as it does on earlier ones).

The last time I did such an operation, one of the "old hands" suggested taking the seat out and reversing it in the rails so the photographer could face backwards, away from the strut. I wasn't too comfortable with this given the proximity of the seat back to the RHS yoke, so declined the suggestion. If you want that sort of vista, you can't beat the back row of a 206 - shame about the operating cost though.

[baron_beeza]

one of the "old hands" suggested taking the seat out and reversing it in the rails so the photographer could face backwards, away from the strut.

Sounds like a bar stool expert. I think we have all experienced them. Some come over as having the intellect of a flea..... a few of the older, more beer sodden ones, ones even less.

It makes you wonder if these guys have ever seen a rearwards facing seat... or at least put a bit of thought into why they are so heavy. That is without even considering how to do the sign off etc...

I have heard many classics over the years, fortunately the Sunday night at the clubs are almost a thing of the past now..
Then again we get the same characters spouting away on internet forums and the like.

I have seen all sorts of methods of removing the door etc.. and when the boss or Chief Engineer finds out the bun fight often goes on for days. Role change equipment just seems to do that.... often there appears to be no quick and easy way of pleasing everyone.

The original question asked for the proper procedure, referring to the engineers is the only correct way.
Opening the window seems to have merit also, it should be the quick and easy way of dealing with it.

[Metro man]

Check the flight manual and see if there is a supplement for door off operations. You may need to install a wind deflector strip. Best to ask a licensed engineer if unsure as you could fall foul of CASA, and have problems with insurance if something went wrong.

[Engineer_aus]

LAME required
Flight Manual requires consulting
It is certainly a lot better to shoot through the open window than have the door removed. That is from experience.

[Tmbstory]

Ex FSO GRIFFO:

Taking the screw out of attachment arm worked well for me. Simple and easy and the results were good. The photographers used to be very pleased with the results.

Tmb

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Thankyou Mr 'T',

A little bush 'ingenuity' went a loong waay back in those times formerly called 'dem good ole days'....

The flight out & back was comfortable, no NOISE / Wind Turb., and the subject matter was easily 'shot' with little or no 'buffet' on the camera or the operator....all at a 'nice' comfortable speed of course....in the '210'...

And did I mention - Safely..!!

Did a few trips - one was for 'A Day In The LIfe Of Australia' - around 1980 I think - where we shot quite a few of Kal and environs - and then out to the 'Trans' crossing the Nullabor just as the sun was hitting it along the sides of the stainless steel carriages in the early morning....luvly!!

And the 'froggie' photographer thought so too......'Sacre Bleu'...!!

Cheers:ok:

[Avgas172]

Griffo do you still have any of the said pics (sun hitting side of Trans) would like to have a look if still possible
cheers
A172

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Unfortunately not my pics - I was the PIC, and the photo guys were for the 'one time' magazine "A Day In The Life Of Australia".

Other clients were Aunty - the ABC - doing a 'Trans' doco, and a few others who I cannot remember.
The 'routine' was the same however...catch up with the train a couple of hrs (for the train) out of Kal so that it would be running through a big salt pan flat that looked more like the Nullabor than going all the way out to the 'real' Nullabor where there are no trees. Just happened to be in that area at that time of the morning when.....

The trick was to approach said train from the Kal side, a little North of the line and do a 'straffing' run - not too low though - along the length, keeping the sun flashing off the windows and sides.
Then a couple of runs 'skidding' the acft along the length from 'head on' to the last car - sort of from the vertical - so that the camera would have the uninterrupted view.
And the 'obligatory' clooose up or two of the engine crew giving us a wave....
A couple of runs would have them photo / movie guys VERY pleased!!!

Don't even have any for moi....Their side of the acft was 'full'....

Cheers:ok:

[rudrasolanki]

Hello there,
I am stuck with problems regarding operations with the Door off for my Cessna 172S. I would be grateful if you can share any documentations regarding this either for Cessna or FAA or CASA.

Thanks much

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

The last time I did such an operation, one of the "old hands" suggested taking the seat out and reversing it in the rails so the photographer could face backwards, away from the strut. I wasn't too comfortable with this given the proximity of the seat back to the RHS yoke, so declined the suggestion. If you want that sort of vista, you can't beat the back row of a 206 - shame about the operating cost though.

Yup. Makes for a snapped neck in a crash if there isn't a headrest on the seat. Eg. rear facing seats in a chieftain have a placard stating a headrest must be attached in the rearward orientation.

CIVIL AVIATION REGULATIONS 1988 - SCHEDULE 8

Maintenance that may be carried out on a Class B aircraft by a pilot entitled to do so under subregulation 42ZC(4)
5. Removal or refitting of a door, but only if:
(a) no disassembly of the primary structure or operating system of the aircraft is involved; and
(b) if the aircraft is to be operated with the door removed--the aircraft has a flight manual and the manual indicates that the aircraft may be operated with the door removed.

Nothing like reading the rules, eh?:rolleyes:

[Seagull V]

Rarely to photographers actually need the door off.
Door off ops definitely require a Flight Manual supplement.
If you do fly with the door off you will find that the aircraft's performance is noticeably worse and you may experience severe buffeting in the cabin at certain speeds/power settings. Having a skydive type wind deflector helps a lot. And then there is the problem of stuff falling out, including the camera person.
So What Ex FSO Griffo said about the opening window is the go. Either that or get hold of a skydive aircraft with an in flight opening door.
The back to front seat idea is definitely not on.

[spinex]

I've flown and been behind the camera in both configurations (in a place and time far from here, where rules were "for the guidance of etc...) and agree that the window open method is far superior.

Door off results in uncomfortable buffeting, to the extent that I was leaning away from the door in an effort to hold the camera steady - after losing an expensive pair of sunnies whilst peering out to see if a vertical shot was feasible:mad:. The first time I tried the open window, said bar stool expert had insisted that the window could slam down, so an extra body was loaded for the sole purpose of keeping my arm and camera intact, but we never found any tendency for the window to do anything but float open in the airflow under normal flight conditions.

Much less fun than zooming around a harbour basin at or below the level of the crane jibs, but modern drones do have certain safety advantages!

[flyinkiwi]

The 172s my club uses were LAME modified (standard door hinges replaced with modified quick release ones) to allow quick removal of the doors but only some of the clubs instructors have official sign off in their logbooks to remove them. Not sure how much of this is similar in Aussie but it wouldn't surprise me if its even more convoluted.

The NZ FM supplement for door removal in 172s only allows the right hand door to be removed.

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Yeah, purely an Aussie thing to fly from the back seat while two photographers do their thing in the front to kill half the hire time!:}

[ormgrace]

Where are the TAL pilots now?