Gulf Air career progression

[AQ737Driver]

I applied for Embraer 170/190 DEC with GF. If I'm successful, what would be my career progression there? In other words, would I go to A320 or 330 at some point or would I be limited to Embraer?

Any other tips are greatly appreciated.

[Sultan85]

career progression! :}

[Apache702]

Or Carreer REGRESSION :yuk:

[DesertHawk]

AQ for your info. the DEC at GF is going to be on GF contracts which are full time just like the rest of us from what many are saying. as far as progression who knows, your seniority would be bottom of list so IF the embraers stay long term theorhetically you will stay there because all FO's upgraded would have higher seniority and be first inline to move to 320. realistically they will require more 320 capts and when demand is there you will be moved inshallah. if the aircraft go you are on GF contracts and you will be moved to 320 as GF has proven in the past they do move pilots:) good luck and hope that answers some of your questions:ok:

[ironbutt57]

This would be a good question to pose at the interview, showing interest in career progression with GF would be a tick markin the "plus" column for sure!

[Beechslave]

Honestly brother, if you have time in type as per the requirements I'm assuming you're flying an E170 state side? Why would you want to fly the same plane in Bahrain, Middle East and become a street CA? Being a direct entry CA is usually a pretty bad deal unless you're on a contract. You'll just be bumped by senior FOs.

[AQ737Driver]

Thanks everyone.

Really appreciate the gouge. :ok:

[ironbutt57]

Beechslave, Capt's dont get bumped out of seat here...:ok:

[DesertHawk]

hey beechslave. why would u want to fly the same aircraft out here? well simple. u fly same aircraft get paid probably 3 times as much and have a very nice lifestyle.

[Landflap]

GF has no skilled management. It will lurch from one crisis to another. It will not respect your contract if it suits them not too. "Career progression" ??? Good grief man. It will NOT respect Seniority listing & refer to it when it suits them. When you leave (as you surely will if you have a brain) they will steal from your indemnity & they will not honour indemnity contractual payments). And, even looking at a company losing millions, changes CEO as often as you do socks, completely corrupt management (who you know, not WHAT you know), for heavens sake buddy, take your skills elsewhere.

BUT, if you are out of work, can't find a job anywhere else, it is one of the better pit-stops while you "progress" your career. One of the better mid East locations, fun crowd, Bahrainis are VERY funny, pilots are the best bunch of professionals I ever flew with (I was there only for a brief period) but, look, go there, do your job, sign the Tech log & go play. Just like Ironbutts, living his dream. No no no, no-one slap him or wake him up...oh bless.

[Che Guevara]

When you leave (as you surely will if you have a brain) they will steal from your indemnity & they will not honour indemnity contractual payments)

Landflap,
For those of us who actually enjoy working here most of the time, (the brainless ones apparently), could you please expand on your indemnity comments so that we can be prepared if and when we decide to leave? (when we part with our rose coloured spectacles I suppose....)

[40&80]

Well I felt cheated the day I left Bahrain.
I was required to present myself and all my leaving paperwork a few hours before my repatriation flight to the Bahrain Government pensions office.
I was to reclaim or have a valiant attempt at reclaiming as promised, (with a promised interest rate of 3.5% per year compounded) a 600BD deduction that had been made from my salary towards the mandatory government pension scheme enforced on expats. "23 years" previously.
This deduction over three months had been made after the GF expat company provident fund was terminated in 1976...this move saved the company contributing into this fund.
I saw on the pensions office computer screen a sum alongside my name "after 23years of waiting for my money back" in excess of 1400BD.
This was before the screen was changed because... I was reading it.
It was then suggested to me that I should donate... this money to the PLO.
I declined however I was grateful to the PLO for never hijacking or killing me or my passengers and never believed the rumors that GF paid 10million dinars a year to achieve this. I believed then only bad GF rumors were true.
I was eventually handed a government cheque for my original 600BD which they had sat on for 23years...take it or leave it.
Being a Gf pilot I taked it! because I needed to cash this cheque immediately as I had to close my last bank account... before racing to the airport to catch my 10.00am local repatriation flight to LHR.
My very last task was to hand in my security identification card and the lady in duty window whispered to me..."Captain you go back now to your country, we all wish you a painless death!"
Now no-longer employed by GF I was not entitled to crew transport.. so I "drag baged" one final time across the car parks to the check in desk contemplating the "Painless death wish". Being an optimistic type of guy I decided to treat her sudden communication after pretty much nill for many years as an Arabic type compliment.
As I progressed across the car parks I reflected upon the built in difficulties of East West communications. I then pondered politically and ended up wishing the hot shots in the USA government loads of luck understanding this important part of the world.
I decided to watch their progress or lack of it as I was nearly creamed by a local young driver in a car I would never afford. This was in 2000.
I was ticketed and and gratefully accepted being seated in economy class for my repatriation flight as I understood the "You no longer work for Gulf Air".
After the doors had closed the local flight Captain came back and moved me into first class...however I noticed he was told by the FSS he could no longer do this and she would report him...The "Lion of the Air" advised her "Do it".
I was upgraded and was delighted to join another GF Captain friend who had retired the previous year... those were the days when retired GF Captains traveled in first class...I think it has all changed now and I do not know if GF even have a first class anymore.
Approaching LHR there were terrific thunder storms at the airport and the Lion Of The Air..."Thanks be to his God" held clear of these.
When we eventually made it onto final approach and onto the runway I think two ex Gf Captains both did a little sigh of relief..I know I did.
The thunderstorms being over... as we taxied in we saw two beautiful large complete rainbows encompassing both parallel runways.....We both laughed when I said "Tony that is what we get from GF for 53years service as Captains and added plus no pensions!"..."One rainbow for me and one rainbow for you" we then discussed who should have first rainbow choice and who had the most seniority!
Luckily... I am still awaiting the GF wish of "A painless death" however I would not bet my house on it coming true...I will try and let you know how it went when the time comes.
I notice the USA increasingly does not trust anyone East of Dover or South of Key West. Mistrust seems a worldwide growth industry worth perhaps investing in via the usual gold and silver bullion.
Sadly I read there has been fake gold sold in the gold market of Bahrain, who would have believed that in the 70s when I bought mine.
Luckily my Gold and Silver has done a bit better than the 600BD the Bahrain government took and sat on for 23years.
I wish Iran lots of luck regarding their intentions towards their brothers across the Gulf and can assure them these brothers are working hard for them...and maybe also "Wishing them a painless death... because they like you"
It is a funny old world and GF is a funny old company, being now a funny old pilot I tend to like funny old things...like funny old trust worthy L1011 flight engineers.
Us retirees on no pensions from GF still hope GF survives and eventually drops its policy of excluding or ignoring input from crews...in my time I loved the memo that said.."Pilots inputs are neither necessary or required" I then knew Gf was heading for a crash...we kept it from happening for a long time... however it is absolutely fascinating to see still this totally biz-are management thinking still 30years on and still at work...the quality of the management decisions I feel just gets worse and worse.
Personally I love to try and guess what next rotten rabbits the various management teams are going to pull out of their corrupt hats...talk about downwards and backwards...I obviously got it completely wrong in thinking it should be upwards and onwards.:ugh: Failed again..onwards and upwards...getting old!:ok: You will too one day ...If you are lucky!

[GrannySmith]

GFA career stalled ?
Try this!
Location : opposite GFA HDQ



Information Sessions for Experienced First Officers



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Emirates will be conducting information sessions in Bahrain on 2nd and 3rd February 2011. These sessions will provide more information on Emirates, our selection programme, the benefits of living and working in Dubai and details of our remuneration package.


2nd February 2011 Movenpick Hotel 15:00 - 18:00pm

3rd February 2011 Movenpick Hotel 10:00am - 13:00pm



Please note that spouses are welcome to attend.



:D

better than flying RJs intra-gulf.....

[Atebis]

"better than flying RJs intra-gulf....."



Yeah, India night turn arounds on a 330 is a way better deal....

[Landflap]

Che, I think 40&80 puts it all in perspective. Well said 40&80 and of course you & Seniors like you will always go onward & upward. For my part Che, I was only in GF for a short spell. I was recruited in Lodon for DEC 767. They called the night before & told me that due to change of policy, it would be RHS. Again, they told me that RHS to LHS would be very fast as I was an existing Commander with tons of experience. After six months in GF RHS, there was no sign of my "rapid career progression". I got out & hardly scratched the surface for indemnity.

However, it was the experience of a dear colleague of mine that made me respond. The indemnity package includes (by law) ALL ALLOWANCES. GF has ignored that for years. Your indemnity will be based on basic pay only. GF know that they are breaking local labour law but when you take off your rose tinted glasses & get the other half of your brain back, you will see that GF is above the law. You will be prevented (effectively) from challenging them because you are required to sign a "No further Claim" letter when you go, exhausted, to the pink palace to collect your cheque. Failure to sign this agreement means no final cheque ! My mate was deducted tons of dinars for all sorts of made up things like 'unauthorised leave' and oh yeah, realised he could kiss goodbye to the thousands tied up in the 'allowance' formula. He just wanted to get out of the rotten place & has never looked back.

So, che, read carefully 40 & 80's excellent submission. When you are done with GF or they are done with you be ready for some big shocks. While it serves YOU well, enjoy.

[Mephistopheles]

40&80, did you happen to be on a G contract? Cuz if that were the case then you had a pretty sweet ride in GF then walked off with a nice pretty penny to boot.

[Che Guevara]

Hi there,
Thanks for your reply and indeed I do know the bit about fixed allowances etc., however it is always interesting to see how the game played out with others so that there are no surprises awaiting you.

This is the Middle East after all and things don't always look like they seem, the shifting sands of Arabia comes readily to mind. I think anyone who comes here and expects different is dreaming. You only have to listen to what happens to pilots leaving QA to recognise that this is not the only place that 'things happen' that you can do nothing about.

One of the better mid East locations, fun crowd, Bahrainis are VERY funny, pilots are the best bunch of professionals I ever flew with

That is why many of us stay here, perhaps sometimes against our better judgement....you see, we do have 'half a brain' afterall!

Finally, Tony (40&80) glad things are going well for you and thanks for your input. Interesting comment about 'awaiting a painless death'....is this SOP with all leavers?

Cheers

[DesertHawk]

GF is just like everyone else in this region. decent job that requires u to see the OBVIOUS to be happy. if u spent 100(lol) years here and did not know the indemnity rules that GF tells u about then why wait for your last week to complain about it? Also EK is a great gig for a junior FO to move to. As a SFO why the hell would u want to go to place where u would wait 5-10years for command making LESS money then here? Have quite a few friends there now and they all seem to think the same. Anyways GF is no gem but lets be realistic they are paying us an industry standard salary and we all know the deal. I find it very frustrasting that so many poeple seem to want to BITCH on here and NOT many are willing to voice concerns in OFFICAL form to the CP and DFO. Even less want to stop flying on there days off and "sacrifice" that prescious 30bd/50bd to inforce change upon our company. so in the end why dont we all just give up and shut up or actually WALK THE WALK!!!! :ok:

[WELCO]

Have to agree with DesertHawk.

[thegypsy]

40 & 80

Guess that was Tony B the other Captain with his rainbow?

[Landflap]

Che, you seem a bit sensitive about the halfbrain comment made for the intending DEC embraer pilot. Apologies for any inferred insult to those of you who remain in GF and enjoy it. I am really pleased that it is for you. It was not for me. My mate, who I referred to, is not a Ppruner but loved every second of his 17 years there. He too, has a full brain. It was for him. He is sad by his treatment on departure and would warn others to be wary upon departure.

To Ironbutts.good grief man, no-one bumped from LHS ??? Oh, even with my short service but an axe to grind, I could give you a L O N G list ! Not for me to name other people but do wake up buddy & be very careful.

The other guy who suggesting you take up grievences the "official way ". Boy, ask the ....L O N G list of guys who tried that and wound up "marked" men ! Read 40&80's post again. Not much change.

My advice remains static. Do the job, enjoy, sign the Tech log & go play. Do not look for anything else. We are like prostitutes. We do this for money. Oh, and do not, for heavens sake, get a golden falcon tatooed on your bum like another one of my mates, he regrets that every time he drops his kacks ! And, yeah, he did leave & has never looked back..except at his tatoo !! Cheers Gents.

[40&80]

Post 17....Yes I was on a G contract.

Do tell me the advantages over the N contract if any?

Tell me more about the other sweet sum I did not get on the last day?

I did live like a poor church mouse...I saved and invested and it did pay off in my case mainly because most investments worked and the proceeds were tax free
and soon exceeded my Salary.

My L1011 F/o salary was BD 3600 a YEAR in 1976....but the perks were good:ok:

I have sent you a more detailed PM.

I love the Golden Falcon idea in the above post.

[ironbutt57]

Waiting for that list land flap, since I've been here no Captain has been sent back to the right seat for other than disciplinary reasons....people seated as capts remained so...enlighten me if I'm wrong....

[LRD L4]

no way -------

[Sal-e]

"rapid career progression"

Landflap, I do beg to differ. Barely been here 3 years and a bit and command assessment has begun.

[coco-nuts]

careful Sal-e u stand in danger of becoming a Company Man? Heaven Forbid!

stay well bro.

Coco.

[Yo767]

Great news!

Gulfair pilot recruitment department is apparently inundated with resumés from around the world to fill these direct entry E-Jets positions.

Housing department is finalizing the setup of a housing complex down south to cope with the influx of new joiners.

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z468/yo757/GFCamp.jpg

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z468/yo757/GfCamp1.jpg

[bus_aviator]

hehe yo767, havnt laughed that hard in a long time, thx for making my day

[Landflap]

Yo, fabbo. Great sense of humour but you might ruffle the feathers of Ironbutts who has probably put his name down for the lead tent & welcomes GF's outstanding economic awareness in providing DEC's with top of the range accommodation ! Sticking with the thread (a lot of you guys get very easily lost & mis-led), my advice to the DEC embraer guy was..DONT.. ! But, if it serves YOUR needs, go ! We are aviation tarts. Go & get paid, get laid too if you are lucky. For every guy like IB, Che, sale-e (well, that is three) who can see nothing but excellence (because it suits them), there will be many more who disagree.

GF has gone steadily down hill from being a top class, world routes, National carrier to not much more than a two-bit regional operator. Totally inept management, totally corrupt & if you three think it is so great, pop along to the Emirates Road show in your own back yard and ask yourselves why so many are looking over their shoulders. Oh yeah, and there is the matter of steady losses without any sign of a turnround. Pardon me for advising DEC to look again, very hard.

Read 40&80 again, and again.Very valuable post which says it all. Read mine again, and I say it again, if it serves you well, it is good for you. It was not for me for my selfish purposes but I guess I liked it enough to constantly read these posts & see how it is getting on.

Good for you three & , I am sure, others who do like it. The majority of us, though, got out.

Good luck Sale e. I know stacks who have been there longer & still awaiting the call. See, it is working for you but not for all. Get the idea ?

[Sal-e]

For every guy like IB, Che, sale-e (well, that is three) who can see nothing but excellence (because it suits them), there will be many more who disagree.
Landflap, who said anything about excellence? Certainly none of us did. And I dare you to say that where you've gone, you have found excellence either.
Good luck Sale e. I know stacks who have been there longer & still awaiting the call. See, it is working for you but not for all. Get the idea ?
Thanks for the well wishes, vice-versa. Upgrade as you should know is a function of company requirements and those eligible with the minimum requirements for upgrade along with seniority. Of course if you're more senior but do not meet those experience requirements, then you wait until you do. Timing, more than anything else, will dictate this, not Totally inept management, totally corrupt.
I think those who enjoy it here, of which I am one, are the ones who are oblivious to the goings on at the pink palace and actually have a life outside the airline. All I am interested in is the security of the job.
Regardless of the airlines financial condition and internal politics which I have neither involvement nor interest nor control of, job security is there, excellent pay is there, a professional work environment is there, good standards are there, and most importantly a great lifestyle is there.

[ironbutt57]

Yup sign me up for "camps"

[Landflap]

"Guys getting Command have been there for at least 5 years". Sale-e seems to have bettered that. I do respect your later post though. It must be irritating to all of you who have decided to stay to feel that you are being criticised. Personally, I never 're-visit' my decision but, people, this is Pprune. It is a forum. Everyone is entitled to a say & an opinion. Again, trying to hold on to the thread, the DEC Embraer guy is entitled to opinions from those of you who are still there & enjoy it. For a balanced field, he should consider the opinions of those who left. Before you place me in the cross hairs, do have a quiet re-look at my offering. The short spell I had was very enjoyable, great bunch of aircrew, still friendly with many. Kids loved it & have thrived since. Frau adored the place. But, I had to get back my LHS and left when the company reneged on the selection suggestion that it would be rapid . Thereafter, multiple admin mess-ups confirmed my decision to leave.

But, for those who are very happy, enjoy. I am very happy for leaving but do miss the really good stuff that was part of my experience.

Now, Embraer DEC, make YOUR decision & thank heavens that many of us out here will not be gagged. Now, I must "re-visit" my decisions with Cathay, Singapore, Air India, Jet 2. Ooops, must look at "Where are they now", might ask myself, "where is HE now ?". Damn, got to "re-visit " the medical page where I love to have a poke at the medical profession !

Thanks PPrune. Great forums, Great for public debate, a good laugh and I have to say, in the main, a good support network for us privilaged to be in work.

[DesertHawk]

Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to pprunize it i agree. NOW LANDFLAP, when u say to SALE why you, to me it seems u are getting at the compnay not following seniority. Please correct me if i am wrong. If that is the case that is COMPLETE BS. I will say alot of things about how this whole EMB has been handled but GF has kept its word and stuck with the seniority, an exception being the DEC's on EMB. The reason guys at 3.5 years are starting assessment at relatively the same time as guys been here 5 years is because everyone between them has resigned or declined command. The guys more senior have had an oppourtunity and currently are waiting their 6month/1 year for another shot. This info is from someone who is currently in the process. I am not saying GF is so good but seniority for FO's command here is being kept thatis a fact. Also if u joined here as an FO why would the company upgrade u ahead of all its other QUALIFIED FO's????:ok:

[ironbutt57]

Land flap's "opinions" are just flame bait, and he is either confused, or just intent on trashing GF. Nowhere is perfect, and GF sure isn't, but hey Landflap they hired you when you needed a job, so if you became disillusioned and left, then good on you for voting with your feet, but don't comenhere spreading misinformation, and criticizing those of us who choose to stay....move on and enjoy your life, some of us enjoy it here...

[Landflap]

"Comenhere" ? Sorry, don't speak German, but let me get it straight; Unless we agree with you, have the same opinions as you, reside in the Mid East, work for GF, we have no right to "comenhere" ! Sorry, but PPrune is an open forum & free speach really does work. Offering the Embraer DEC varied opinions gives him greater oppportunity to make a balanced judgement. Aaaah, but the bully boys like you would not have that eh IB ? Before the moderator pulls the plug on this because it is still drifting from thread to an open bar brawl, allow me one last freedom of reply; I was recruited to fly DEC 767. The very next day I was told that due to a change in policy, DEC's on the 767 would no longer be possible & I was offered a RHS with the suggestion that RHS to LHS would be very rapid. The Head of the Selection Board laughed as he told me that this was "typical GF" !

I had four employment offers on the table and chose GF as the best option.I loved it. But, when I was bypassed and not included in the list of very rapid, RHS to LHS, I was told that at least three years had to be served in the RHS before going R to L. That was NOT explained at the interview. Indeed, I dug out a tiny clause in whatever Ops Manual it was at the time, that the rule would not apply to those with previous extensive Command experience. Of course, the "Loss of Face" card was then exposed & was told not too make too many waves. So, I left, having secured the choice of three DEC's elsewhere.

No IB, I do not regret it and I loved my short time there. I visit many Pprune pages & enjoy free speech, free opinions, lively debate & a chance to offer experienced comment to others considering going where I have been. I value the opinions of others when considering other aspects of my career. Thanks to Pprune, a pretty good way of doing it.

So, sorry. I certainly will "comenhere" & be very vocal if it will help give a ballanced view. One guy, on the 'Gf developments' page is asking, clearly, if there is ANYONE happy in GF ?..............I gave him three posters. Take your blinkers off, IB, step out of the bubble & pop into the road show. You will see more than three who are NOT happy. Are you going to bully your way around & try to silence them too ?? I hope not. Better tact is to simply place forward your view and others will listen.

Thanks moderator. Tried to keep this thread in focus. I'm off to cause absolute mayhem on the medical site because no-one will tell me what to do about my manboobs !

[DesertHawk]

BRAVO:D i finally get it. U accepted a job as FO in the middle east after they were supposed to give u a DEC. Then u expected to jump every other qualified FO on the fleet becasue of your "experience". I just dont get this type of mentality. First u criticize GF for not following seniority but when the person in question was you U, U EXPECTED them to break all seniority? To me this is a typical situation of when it suits u it is ok!!!! I get GF is not perfect but i think u need to chill and realize u are long gone and have no idea what is going on right now here. Sorry if this sounds confrontational but MOST of the things u say are just plain NOT true as Gf is currently folling seniority!!!!!:ok: also a tip a wise man once told me. never accept a job in the expectation of advancement immediately. if this is the case something is seriously wrong with that airline

[millerscourt]

Landflap

I find it hard to believe that GF offered you a DEC B767 position in writing and then altered it to a F/O position. As you say you had four other offers for a DEC position why on earth did you join GF?

Over the years from time to time GF did take DEC's on all types they operated, normally on so called short term contracts which in most cases were made permanent for those they wished to keep.

Like many ME airlines they did not allow fleet change from RHS to LHS which made for disgruntled F/O's on some fleets when they saw DEC's arrive for example on the A320.
There were rapid commands from time to time for experienced Captains who joined as F/O's when there were not F/O's with the seniority but without the right hours to be considered or who has already failed to be upgraded.

[ironbutt57]

We know Landflap and the story...waste of time to comment...

[Beechslave]

ironbutt57 I was talking about seniority. I know a senior FO will not physically remove you but you will stay junior to the upgrades...

[Beechslave]

hey beechslave. why would u want to fly the same aircraft out here? well simple. u fly same aircraft get paid probably 3 times as much and have a very nice lifestyle.

DesertHawk, that depends on where you're coming from. What he's talking about is not an upgrade in quality of life. Unless GulfAir provides cheap 5 bedfroom apartments and private cooks and your own personal driver. You can be an RJ Captain state side and have a way better quality of life.

Try for Qatar or Emirates.

[slowjet]

Cripes, some of you chaps really do shoot first & ask questions later. LF has no-where said that he was offered a LHS "in writing". I think it was a long time ago & a lot of recruitment was done 'over the phone'. Seems to me that he was recruited for DEC. Company policy changed & poor old recruiter had to phone those offered that job and explain the policy change with revised offer. I guess most will have walked away but LF liked what he saw & went for it. He had every right to "expect" rapid RH to Lh because that was what he was told.

I joined an airline, one time, on the same expectation. I was told that there was a lot of "dead wood" at the top end of the FO list & that I would sail past them. I did. Remember too that there are loads of First Officers who do not want Commands. In my present Company, we have the top of the list guys who have top bid line potential, have other jobs too & make more take-home pay than they would as a Junior Captain. We too have new joiners who, quite rightly, 'expect' to rapidly progress.

As one of you said, all, probably a long time ago, in Gf & they are probably much more organised now. Gees, hope so.

[ironbutt57]

The recruitment system is much more organized now.

[DesertHawk]

typical pilot crap:) we want seniority but when it suits us we expect company to **** on everyone elses dinner table to "expedite" our career. my point is u never except a job on an expectation of promotion, i thought or assumed every experienced pilot had figured that one out. anyways safe flying and good luck.:ok:

[samjetblaster]

It's best place to get three type ratings in two years.:confused: