Ripping Off The Pilots

[ding007]

Guys I just want your thoughts on the organisations that are running these airline prep courses.
One crew is charging over 3k to spend time with them. Is this acceptable or is it just another money grab from people who are desperate to become jet jocks.
:=

[apache]

put it this way.....

people were getting jet jobs LONG before these courses came on the market!!!!!


they MAY have a few tips, or a bit of advice.... but can you really afford to shell out 3 grand for "be yourself...." ??????

[ding007]

apache,

I agree with you. What upsets me is after talking to a guy who recently done the 3k course it is apparent that there is a hugh advantage to be gained by this course.

:mad:

[Horatio Leafblower]

Ding

Does this mean I have to change my name to Hugh before I can get a jet job??? :confused: :confused: :confused:

[FOCX]

Ding007,

Your kidding, right? At 1640 you post and 22 mins later you've already spoken to a mate and found "it's apparent" that there is a "huge" advantage and posted again! Plus you're a newbie, not trying to advertise on here, are you?

Do your homework and prep well in advance of your interview notification and you'll save yourself 3K, simple as that.

[KRUSTY 34]

It's like the QF pysch test (to name just one). Friend of mine tried twice for QF. he was an experienced, good and stable operator. Both times failed the pysch. Thought to himself, well that's that! A year or so later a mutual friend (QF F/O) encouraged him to re-apply, and pointed him in the direction needed to pass the test. He has now been with QF for about 6-7 years, and is an experienced, good and stable operator!

Some others I have known to have secured a position with our National Carrier, I wouldn't have trusted with a rickshaw. But they had the inside goss on how to pass the test. A certain amount of nepotism also helped those individuals.

It's all a load of BS!!!

[ding007]

FOCX,

I spoke to this guy today before I posted. Not trying to advertise anything as they already do on this site.
I just get angry when I here about this stuff going on that's all.

Sorry about the typing mistake I did mean huge.

[neville_nobody]

One of these courses a few years ago actually subscribed to the same testing that QF do. So basically they give you the exact same exam as QF. With the pysch it enables you to see which ones you should modify to get closer to what profile QF want.


people were getting jet jobs LONG before these courses came on the market!!!!!
they MAY have a few tips, or a bit of advice.... but can you really afford to shell out 3 grand for "be yourself.

The problem is that if a significant number of people start using these courses then everyone has to get on the bandwagon otherwise they will be left behind. It's like turbine experience, 25 years ago flying a chieftan was acceptable, now because turbine experience is easier to access everyone has to have turbine experience to be competitive. Hopefully not to many people are shelling out 3k though....

[VH-XXX]

With the pysch it enables you to see which ones you should modify to get closer to what profile QF want.

That is of grave concern!

Those that have to "modify" their psych answers are the exact ones that QF wouldn't want.

If you are feeling the need to do that, they will eventually weed you out later in the process.

Why on earth would you feel the need to modify your responses, are you one of the ones that would normally answer "yes" to standing on the edge of a cliff and wanting to jump off it?

[KRUSTY 34]

Sadly VH XXX that's exactly what goes on. The self serving people that created, administer, and promote these tests, live in a completely different world to the rest of us. They love to pull the strings, and they love to see pilots dance!

You've been around a while. It's hardly a state secret! :confused:

[notaplanegeek]

Why do people bother to peruse a career in aviation these days?

[40Deg STH]

Dong007

I will do it for a beer and steak!!!
Just ask mates for advice, just like your doing and stop these joke outfits from surviving.
If you know anyone in HR (any industry) they can have good advice and read some books and have beers with the boys. You will get hired:ok:

PS I see Ding your from QLD (my home state) Hope the floods have not effected you my friend. Good luck.
CX are hiring now

[Jack Ranga]

You'll only get ripped off if you allow yourself to be, mind you it's not too hard to rip off a pilot these days.

Do some research on aptitude tests, what they are looking for etc. Get a HR person to ask you their hardest questions and practice. If you go to a QF interview and are surprised by the questions they ask you are a true numpty and don't deserve a slot.

The alternative? Pay $3000

[neville_nobody]

I would be selective about which books to use as many of them don't cover the type of questioning and interviews that QF do. I would be looking for aviation specific recruiting material or other specific behaviour interview stuff.

The big hole in the behaviour type recruiting is that it is a game. And you have to adapt to the 'game' being played. You can't be a smart arse as that will rule you out you just have to play their game.

Many of the US airlines actually use professional Psychs during their recruitment process which I imagine would bring some authenticity to the process but noone in Australia seems prepared to do this stuff properly.

Those that have to "modify" their psych answers are the exact ones that QF wouldn't want.

The stupidity of this is that's exactly what they want. I once heard some recruiting guru talking about all this stuff and he said that if you can adapt your behaviour to what the company wants then you are the type of person they want to recruit. It's about recognising your behaviour patterns and acting on them. The flip side is that you can easily recruit a psychopath who will sneak through the system by answering all the questions correctly only then to revert back once recruitment is over. I think the other flaw in the system is that in no other industry other than aviation will potential recruits so heavily analyse and try to outsmart the recruitment process. No other industry in the world would people spend 6 months analysing all stages of the process and seeing how they can beat it.

IF airlines were serious about recruiting then you would have to do a pysch test and a one on one interview with a psych to talk about your results. This way you could weed out all those who are cheating the system.

[solowflyer]

In the old days GA would of weeded out the bulk of the muppets long before getting let lose with keys to a shiney new jet. But alas All this phsyco bollocks will be here to stay now we are seeing the new generation jumping straight from a 152 into a 737.

[psycho joe]

The psych tests that airlines use are relatively easy to fool and you don't need to spend $$$$.

Psych tests were never designed to be a stand alone assesment for the purposes of psych profiling, they were designed as a tool to be used to gain an insight in the applicants personality in conjuction with an interview by a qualified psychologist; Hence the military system.

The airlines instead use psych tests loosly based on the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) and use a HR person who did a weekend course in behavioural science; Hence the canned 'tell us about a time when you...' questions that have permeated airline recruiting. It's cheap and lazy recruiting.

For a start, try googling Myers-Briggs profiles. Memorise all the positive traits of a personality type compatible with flying ( E/ISTJ ) Then do online practice exams as someone with those personality traits would answer. Eventually you'll get so good at putting certain character traits to questions that you can be whatever profile you want to be and easily spot impression control questions (trick questions). Learn to act, speak and generally present yourself like a person fitting that profile and you'll be well in the game.

Given that most HR people fit into the same basic personality profile (You'll have to work that one out for yourselves) it's relatively easy to 'out psych the psych' by knowing what they are thinking before they say anything.



In the old days GA would of weeded out the bulk of the muppets long before getting let lose with keys to a shiney new jet. But alas All this phsyco bollocks will be here to stay now we are seeing the new generation jumping straight from a 152 into a 737.

The flawed MBTI will eventually go. It's becoming understood that you can learn more about someone over a cup of coffee and a pleasant chat. Who would have thought? :hmm:

[thorn bird]

Know a guy who spent his money, studied hard to present a "Modified" personality, got right through to the final interview.
He was a "late starter" over thirty years old. The old Grey beards conducting the final interview were more interested in why he was over thirty and not married!!...it was obvious to him as they beat about the bush, they were worried if he was...well??...errr...gay.
Finally one of them asked directly " We wonder why you havnt taken a wife??"...thats where it went to s..t!!..he couldnt help himself...he replied
"havnt found anyone's wife I particullaly want to take"...
QF at that point lost a very good pilot..today a check & training pilot B747 with another airline.
Its become a game guys played by the HR guys to justify their positions, learn to play the game..with the right training I'm sure Osama himself could become a QF pilot.

[Tidbinbilla]

Must have been a looooong time ago, Thorn Bird, because recruiters are not permitted to ask such questions anymore :)

[thorn bird]

It was mate

[eocvictim]

Everyone knows the only way into QF is to either stack a plane or have drowned kittens as a kid. :E

[Howard Hughes]

Why do people bother to peruse a career in aviation these days?
Because they are not smart enough to be English teachers?;)

[zanthrus]

Oh thats funny! :ok:

[ding007]

Hi Guys

Just heard from a person who cancelled a course date with a company and then was offered help to do the SHL test. This person declined and has since received a barrage of emails from this company with abuse and slander.:mad: After his decision to do it the hard way with heaps of good old fashioned study it should not end up like that.

[Bug4514]

Ahhhhh know who you are talking about. Companies are aware of this, you do that course,they find out you don't get a job with them.:(