Media Helicopters,when to film,when to help?

[ozbiggles]

Given todays events in SE Qld what are peoples thoughts? I'm struggling with that answer today.

[Jabawocky]

In my opinion....EVERYBODY no matter who or what or where has a moral obligation to help as best they can within some sensible safe boundaries (not always legal ones).

If I was a TV chopper pilot and a family needed picking off a roof I would ditch the TV crew safely and go get them. **** THE STORY....... the later one would make up for it anyway.

J:ok:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Had the same thought.

Can we assume that someone rescued them - didn't see that confirmed on the news.

Guy in the trees was in a spot of bother also.

SE Qld is poised for a disaster!

Dr :8

[gobbledock]

If I was a TV chopper pilot and a family needed picking off a roof I would ditch the TV crew safely and go get them.
Jaba, that is because you are a pilot and hence retain some moral ethic.
Media are nothing short of parasites..........

[ozbiggles]

I think the answer is no, I pray I'm wrong.
Its hard to tell what the timeline was. But I would have dumped everyone except the strongest passenger ASAP and if no rescue chopper was nearby had a go. It was obvious time was running out.
I wasn't there of course...but there is a lot of footage of them in trouble.
The guy in the tree was impossible but people on roofs with houses crumbling underneath and that family on the car needed help, not filming.

[Jabawocky]

Jaba, that is because you are a pilot and hence retain some moral ethic.
Media are nothing short of parasites..........

Gobbledock......thats a good point, but are the PIC's not pilots with a moral concience too? Or have they been controlled by the dark side too long? :suspect:

[gobbledock]

Gobbledock......thats a good point, but are the PIC's not pilots with a moral concience too? Or have they been controlled by the dark side too long? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/cwm13.gif
Hmmm, you pose a good question there grasshopper for me to ponder.

[Dangly Bits]

When the pilot realized the people were in real danger, he landed and grabbed fire rescue officer and went back. I'm not sure if the found them.

Sad day indeed.

DB

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Inspector Douglas McDonald says three people were trapped in a car, but a woman and child could not be saved.
"Only one of those persons was able to be rescued before the vehicle and the other persons were swept away," he said.

Dunno if its the same 3 people.

Dr :8

[Angle of Attack]

SE Qld is poised for a disaster

The rain has definitely abated around the Brisbane area the last 8 hours, however even though not heavy it has continually falled to the north west in the catchments. There is going to be some flooding the next couple of days in low lying areas, the unknown is further rainfall. I bought my place in the height of the drought but as a true Brisbanite I was still thinking of flood potential! After all Brisbane is basically a wet season Summer area, some mexicans got lulled into an idea it was a sunshine state in summer! DOH! haha!

Give me 74 floods x 5 and I will still be clear by 30 metres!

[Pilotette]

I agree & hope those on the footage are safe and sound. Any self respecting pilot would feel the pull to help in these circumstances. I drove through both Dalby and Toowoomba yesterday. Made it through Dalby before the water hit again but the roads were already being ripped apart by rain & trucks. Pulled into Toowoomba in the middle of the torrential downpour and the outlook was already not looking promising for the area. I am amazed at the amount of drivers on the road with no sense, screaming down the Dividing Range Pass through crater-like potholes in white out conditions, trucks included. Saw one car end up on its roof...Scary stuff. Keep safe and dry everyone!

[Kulwin Park]

Because I've worked with Media Choppers in the past, I can tell you these details...

The chopper is usually mostly full of live broadcast equipment, normally useful for pilot, reporter in other front seat, and camera man in back - thats it. No room for others for ride.
The pilot would be hesitant about risking chopper safety, but would always let EMS crew nearby by marine or rescue channel radio) (which they monitor for news goss) of situation so they can rescue these people.
If pilot dumped crew, the situation of lowering skid onto roof for passengers to climb in could get ugly, as they may touch controls, or not open doors, and may cause trouble with chopper hopping in, causing fatal error, as pilot is trying to hover and rescue in non-trained circumstances. Even if took a rescue crewman, there would only be room for 1, maybe 2 if lucky, but could be done.
I've heard it be done many a time, especially in fires, but insurance and employer would crucify pilot if they ever found out normally.
Safer for media pilot to hover nearby and monitor situation staying in constant radio contact with rescuers as to alert for conditions and what they will expect. Good eye in sky actually because rescue crews don't see what media see.
Media choppers don't have winch or grab hard attach points inside, so unless they land and can feed people in themselves, then it becomes a serious danger to pilot as people not trained and stressed in back will move around mostly.So many factors, maybe missed some, but Yes i do think they want to help, will flash lights to people to let them know help will be on way, but just have to wait helpless and do their duty for rescue ops to guide them in. A side of media that is rarely seen as to how they help. The actual rescue filming is more excting on Tv than chitter chatter they say.

Cheers, KP

[eocvictim]

A line I heard on "Rescue 999" from a paramedic, "I'd hate to be a pilot for 999, they get no respect or recognition for the job they do!"

There are a few people on here will know that feeling. Outside of the aviation industry people only see the medical/rescue crews, not the pilots.

If something happens while the medical/rescue crews are doing their bit its usually "oh well you did the best you could". If a pilot cant land or get in to let the ancillary crew do its job its usually "Why didn't you try harder? Why can't it be done? Whats wrong?" Followed by any number of useless laymen suggestions like, "It's a helicopter! It's got GPS; it can just hover down into 0/0 fog!"

So I can totally understand where Kulwin Park is coming from. It'd be good if they showed that side and at least try to explain the details.

[Howard Hughes]

I too was stunned this morning to see the footage of the family in the car being cirlcled.

Now I am not a chopper pilot but understand the ramifications of safety training, currency, etc...

What happened in SE Queensland yesterday was by no means a normal occurence, what about a mercy flight? Declare it and then it is up to the pilot to determine what he and the aircraft are capable of doing. Things like number of seats, etc become irrelevant in such situations. If there are no other resources available, you do what you can without risking more lives.

[twisties]

Channel 7 news reported that mother and child okay but sadly the father is missing. On all accounts the pilot did a great job to assist a rescue.

[Worrals in the wilds]

What could they do though? No winch with a rope, no trained personnel to let down, what could they do to help except report the position to the local ES? Surely it's the same rule as on a boat if there's a man overboard; sight the man, keep sight of him, keep pointing, notify the skipper (except with a chopper you can't just pull up beside them). If you do drop someone from the chopper do the people on the ground know what to do or will they panic and jeapardise the aircraft and the rescue/reporting effort?
If you jump in to help, how do you get out again? How will the boat/chopper find you? You just become another casualty. Sometimes the hardest thing to do is to do nothing.

[twisties]

The helicopter pilot was interviewed on 7 news. It showed how professional he is and everything he did working together with emergency services and swift water rescue. Of note his despair for the welfare of the family was evident. The media chopper spotted the car and provided valuable assistance.

[catseye]

What Worrals said in summary.

First rule of rescue's: Don't become a victim. :=sometimes it is really hard to not get physically involved but it is the correct thing to do.

[Flying Binghi]

Media choppers don't have winch or grab hard attach points inside, so unless they land and can feed people in themselves, then it becomes a serious danger to pilot as people not trained and stressed in back will move around mostly.

As much as i'd like to bag the media, i'd have to agree with Kulwin Park and others on this. Doing a hovering pick up of unknown and unpredictable pax is a good way to roll up in a ball.

My heli experience is only mustering though i did attempt a hovering pick up of a worker once by default. The inventive young fellow decided to do the rambo on me and ran at the still hovering machine and jumped on the forward point of the skid so-as to swing himself on board - exciting it were...




.

[eocvictim]

Was he successful?

[Flying Binghi]

Was he successful?


Yep, skid hit the ground with the machine doing a pivot around it settling with a thump.




.

[QSK?]

I'm no lawyer but I think media helicopter pilots may find that they would still have a statutory obligation under common law to assist if they had the capability to do so and the operation could be safely executed (duty of care under the law of Tort?).

Basically, as I understand it, under the law of Tort a person is obligated to render assistance regardless of their role in an emergency if they are capable of doing so.

Any lawyers out there who could throw more light on this?

[Ascend Charlie]

This thread is similar to one on Rotorheads.

All the wannabes and great pretenders mouthed off about what THEY would have done.

The moderator sensibly locked the thread.

[Feather #3]

A mate of mine was able to help before the NSW cops got more powerful choppers and his news-crew were pretty good at helping, but as said above, the capacity to do so is limited by weight/space.

G'day ;)

[Hasselhof]

The helicopter pilot has a duty of care alright... a duty of care regarding the safety of the occupants of the helicopter. They don't have a duty of care to someone stranded on the ground.

[pohm1]

It's very easy for a light helicopter in a ground effect hover to make a bad situation a lot worse. As heart-rending as it must have been to see these people in distress, the pilot made the right choice.

Here's one where the choice is debatable.

You Tube Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXQHtdBanQg)

P1

[ButFli]

I'm no lawyer but I think media helicopter pilots may find that they would still have a statutory obligation under common law to assist if they had the capability to do so and the operation could be safely executed (duty of care under the law of Tort?)."A statutory obligation under common law"? Clearly you were right when you said you weren't a lawyer. Your statement makes no sense.

A passer-by owes no duty of care to someone who is in distress under common law. Therefore the pilot of a media helicopter is under no obligation to attempt a rescue. The pilot owes a duty of care to the helicopter passengers and arguably to other people who may be endangered by the operation of the helicopter. Even a properly trained pilot of a properly equipped rescue helicopter would not owe a duty of care to potential rescuees until a rescue had commenced and even then would only be obliged to do what was reasonble.

Maybe there is a statute hanging around somewhere that specifically obliges any helicopter pilot to attempt a rescue. I doubt it though.

[Sunfish]

Firstly, as posters have commented, there are straight forward operational issues why a helicopter can't just "pick up" victims. There are additional issues:

1. Does the camera man consent to becoming an instant load master?

2. Does the reporter consent to becoming an instant observer?

3. Neither cameraman or reporter are trained in any aspect of search and rescue.

4. What happens when one, or both of these amateurs fail?

I'll ask Roger D. for his opinion next time I see him.

[Captain Sand Dune]

Sorry; slight thread drift but I've gotta get this off my chest.
Was watching ABC 24 yesterday evening as our fearless leader Joolya was waxing lyrical about the Queensland spirit in the face of the flooding.
At the same time the written bit on the bottom of the screen (waddya call it?) told of people complaining about the noise made by the Blackhawks. You know - the same ones that are trying to help their sorry asses!
W...T...F...
"Queensland spirit" indeed.

[Worrals in the wilds]

Don't blame a whole state because of a few FKwits.

Pretty much everyone here has been devoutly thankful to see the Blackhawks above them, they also did an awesome evacuation job in the central west. Shortly before the initial flood peak on Wednesday arvo I was watching the Brisbane river rise with a few people (from a very high point) and saw two Blackhawks following the river upstream. We all impromptu cheered, being very glad to see them out and about.

Anyway, it's nothing on the noise they would have made if they'd had to bomb the Island Party Boat if it broke its moorings and threatened the bridges, which was the Hot Rumour around Brisbane to explain their attendance. No idea whether it was true or not, but Brisbane ain't Brisbane without a conspiracy theory!

Sorry for continuing the drift.

[max1]

What are the thoughts about the media demanding access to the BN CTR to report the 'news' whilst survey and FFR choppers are in there.

[SgtBundy]

How many shots of muddy water do we really need? They have had their 3 or 4 days of continuous flood pr0n and if there is real work to be done they should be a distant last priority. They have been grasping at straws to report for the last day or so anyway.