THe Majestic 747 - the original Jumbo of the Sky

[Wannabe Flyer]

After a gap of almost 10 years I got to fly in a 747-400 last week. Most of the routes I have been flying over the past years have moved to 777 or 330 so it was an absolute delight to fly in one of these aircraft in which i had logged many many SLF miles in the 90's.

After seeing models of 747 aircraft on my study tables my 5 year old was absolutely delighted to be flying on the aircraft with an upstairs! I was happy I was able to take her on one albeit a short flight of 4 hours.

I found the aircraft (it was aging so no fancy entertainment system etc) very comfortable and a lot of space in Y class and leg room. It was a lot of fun to fly in!!!!!

With so few carriers left flying this equipment and an imminent phase out of this majestic beauty that is older than more than 60% of the worlds population I am not sure when I will get a chance to fly this aircraft again. I know there is the 380 but this is akin to the mustang of the 60's that one always wants regardless of the Porsche's out there.

With the 747-8 going the cargo way (at least what indications are) does anyone have an idea how much longer the passenger versions of the existing fleet will continue flying? Any guesses who will be the last carrier to have this on their fleet?

[UniFoxOs]

I too haven't flown on one of these for many years, and have spoken of them so lovingly that SWMBO is quite jealous. I have promised her a flight on one, so I'd be very interested in the answer to this. We already have a holiday booked for this year, so if they are going to disappear soon I will have to book an extra trip just so that she can experience one.

Cheers
UFO

[ZFT]

Goodness knows what part of the world you guys pax in but there are still literally hundreds of -400s flying around. Just about every major Asian and European carrier still operates them.

[Wannabe Flyer]

ZFT

I am based out of India. Trips to ME and Europe are usually on 320, 737, 330 or 777. Non Stops to US are on 777. Flights to SE Asia are on 320, 737, 777, 330
Most connections out of Europe are on 330 or 777 and onwards to the US. If taking a connecting from SE Asia to Aussie then it is again a 777 or 330.

AI flies the 747 but :mad: have not flown them for the past 20 years and dont think I will for the next 50. About the same for BA

So out of India

SQ
MH
LH (MD 11 and 340)
UA/CO
AA
EY
EK
IT
9W
TG
VS (340)
TU
KLM (usually an MD 11 but over new years I say the 747 on the tarmac, probably dealing with the peak travel).
Do not fly a 747..............Sad but true maybe the geographical location has made it impractical....

Might have missed many more.

I got to the fly a TG 747 cause of the new years rush they substituted a 400 with the standard equipment over that period.

[Smoketrails]

I know the feeling Wannabe Flyer! After more than 300 flights under the belt I've only ever flown on the mighty 747 twice! And it wasn't even across any of the Oceans(this task was always reserved for the even more beautiful orange Tristars of LTU!). When I was young my dad treated me to a trip on an Air India B747 between Schiphol and Heathrow as at this time I hadn't flown 'the beast' yet! Then a couple of months later LTU ran out of aircraft and chartered an Evergreen B747 for the summer season! We were lucky to get her on the Dusseldorf to Mallorca flight.

Anyway, many years on an dad is treating his 37 year old son on a trip to LAX in march! First thing I checked, what are we flying? I was pleasantly surprised and a tad excited to see we will be riding a 747 combi from Amsterdam! Father is forking out for bizz class so we get to ride upstairs, double excited!

...thank you daddy;)

[mutt]

an imminent phase out of this majestic beauty We operated our -100 series for almost 40 years, phased it out last year, -300 series was introduced in 1985 and will be phased out by 2013-15, thats almost 30 years, our -400's were delivered in 1998, so as 13 year old aircraft they have lots of life left in them..... and our first -8 will be delivered this year.... kinda :):)

Almost forgot, we also operate -SP's and recently retired a -200.... so we are probably the only airline that has operated the SP/100/200/300/400 at the same time :ok:

Mutt

[Scarbagjack]

Mmm Mmmm.
The sexiest aircraft ever. I too love the 747-400.
I have done quite a few Pacific crossings from Oz to the US and never do I fail to get excited at the first glimpse of that sexy beast!

Better sign off before my wife catches me going on about it again...

Enjoy.:)

[Lord Bracken]

One of the reasons BA gets most of my business across the pond is because of the 744 - particularly upstairs business class - which you can find on JFK, IAD, SFO, LAX, DFW, ORD etc. etc.

[ZFT]

Wannabe Flyer,

Interesting. I'm based at Suvarnabhumi and the number of pax 744s arriving and departing daily is still a very high number.

obviously TG but also (from memory) SQ, BR, UN, KL, LH, OZ, KE, NH, CA, QF, BA, CX, NZ, LY, GA, UA, AI are some of the 'visitors',

[Ancient Observer]

......er, excuse me, but as customers, the actual introduction of the 400 was a real pain. The lot that BA bought had real and continuous issues. Whether that was BA's re-engineering of everything, a habit which they now do a little bit less of, or the 400's fault, I do not know. In the early 90's you just could not guarantee getting from lhr to sin, let alone Mel, and from sin, to lhr, where BA had less capability, planes that I was on ended up
1. Nowhere. Could not take off, so had to get an SQ flight to Man
2. Athens.
3. Schiphol.
4. Somewhere in India. I didn't even get off to find out where we were.

For some strange reason, the 400 from hkg to lhr did not appear to give me the same grief.

The only upside of this was that I got to know BA's station manager at Sin and the passenger services supervisor, and had lots of interesting conversations about where we might end up. Was his name Ishahak?
Then, BA put their customer service in Sin in the hands of Quantas, so real customers who paid real money were always put third to 1. crew who were mates, and then crew who were not mates. Paying customers were not quite actively disliked - it just felt like it.

The only upside was that I did convince my 2 children that "real" planes had upstairs and downstairs. They could wear themselves out running up and down the stairs, and then the crew and I could sleep.

[Rush2112]

I haven't been on a 744 in ages, SQ phased them off all the routes I usually fly in favour of the 380 (LHR, CDG) or 777 (ditto), or now a 340 of some sort (KIX). They haven't used a 744 on any route in SE Asia I've flown since I cannot remember when. Sad really because I would chose one any day over the 380.

edited to add - a quick check of their website reveals they have 9 left in the fleet so they must fly them somewhere!!

[PAXboy]

Whilst I agree and was delighted to discover that my next JNB has 744 on outbound (346 return from CPT is fine but not special).

Of course, if we are going to get misty eyed about the 747, then we might find ourselves drifting over to Concorde, then back to the 707 and if THAT happens, I'm just going to have to refer you folks to ... the VC-10 :}

[TightSlot]

I'm lucky enough to be still working on The Queen. Her days are numbered however (although somewhat extended since the glue won't dry in time on the 787) - Few aircraft have ever been quite so popular with both crew and passengers - possibly the VC10 as the only other?

[Betty girl]

Oh you are all so right a really lovely aircraft.

Another one I also loved working on was the DC10-30.

[rogerg]

Another one I also loved working on was the DC10-30.

Sounds like an ex BCal girl. The 10-30 was also great to fly.

[Joao da Silva]

- Few aircraft have ever been quite so popular with both crew and passengers - possibly the VC10 as the only other?

Concorde .

[strake]

Concorde .

Hmm.. the quote was "crew and passengers". Given the number of people who have flown in a 747 versus the same in Concorde, in relative terms, you might as well say "Gulfstream IV".

Now, if the quote was "members of the public", then I think Concorde would probably win overall.

[Joao da Silva]

Yes, but there was no mention of relativity in the statement.

And as airliners were not specified, Gulfstream is a good response, too.

[Hotel Tango]

Give me a DC-6, DC-7 or Connie any day over a plastic aeroplane any day :)

I do like the 747 upper deck in C class.

[Skipness One Echo]

Give me a DC-6, DC-7 or Connie any day over a plastic aeroplane any day

Tried a DC3 once. Was queasy after five minutes as it floated about the sky, there's a lot to be said for technology. Older aircraft are best appreciated on the ground IMHO.

[GROUNDHOG]

Just booked LGW/BDS and had the choice of BA or VS, would normally have booked BA but they fly a 777 on the route and VS fly a 747 so VS got the booking!! After April VS switch to an A330 and I would probably have stayed with BA if the price was about the same!! I love the 747 and that is why I booked the way I did no other reason!!

[Hotel Tango]

Tried a DC3 once. Was queasy after five minutes as it floated about the sky, there's a lot to be said for technology. Older aircraft are best appreciated on the ground IMHO.

Ah, you youngsters are not made of the same stuff as us oldies ;)

[Wannabe Flyer]

@ZFT

Correct you are TG still has a lot 747 (though in the inflight magazine they are really lobbying how the 380 will change that and from the Interior wear and tear on the one I traveled on I do not doubt it).

However as stated in my post due to my geographical locations and travel routes 747 seem to have disappeared on these routes and It was after 10 years I got to fly on one

[ZFT]

Wannabe Flyer,

Yes, fully appreciate that. TG have now put the 744 on the Bangkok - Singapore run so even regional opportunities.

[Wannabe Flyer]

Ah, you youngsters are not made of the same stuff as us oldies http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif

Have not flown the VC 10 but the good old Dakota definitely have.


PS: My Daddy was a twinkle in his parents eyes when the dakota was introduced. I have flown in one multiple times!!! I think chances are my daughter might get to fly on one too.....True testament to a great aircraft.

[parabellum]

Ancient Observer wrote;


Then, BA put their customer service in Sin in the hands of Quantas, so real customers who paid real money were always put third to 1. crew who were mates, and then crew who were not mates. Paying customers were not quite actively disliked - it just felt like it.




Quite which scenario are you talking about here? If you are are a fare paying passenger then you will have a boarding priority. Positioning crew may well have a higher priority than you if they are en route to rescue a service that has become unstuck, a very rare circumstance. A fare paying passenger will almost always get priority over positiong crew, unless the commercial pax is 'Standby', once again it comes down to allocated boarding priority.

If you are talking about jump seats well, they are simply not in the public domain so crew will get them under just about any circumstances before a passenger as the airline cannot sell jump seats. With my last employer the jump seats were at captains discretion but, if you didn't have an aviation related ID, you had no hope of getting one.


The only upside was that I did convince my 2 children that "real" planes had upstairs and downstairs. They could wear themselves out running up and down the stairs,


Hope the cabin crew and the rest of the pax in that cabin appreciated this?

[Ancient Observer]

parabellum,

The order ranking customers last was info given to me by a trusted BA staffer who was appalled at the Qantas attitudes when the Qantas staff started throwing their weight about.

As for the children, don't be absurd. All was done in reasonable time, not when folk were sleeping, and as you know, the CC could see what was going on.

Bad day at the Office?

[Cymmon]

Janus Airways Viscount 700, Air Inter Caravelle 12 and Dassault Mercure (would it ever leave the runway!), Air Atlantique DC-3 and my first ever flight, BAe One-Eleven 510 (BA).

Never been much of a Boeing fan but recently my head has been turned by Qatar 777's in business class. Superb.

Only twice on 747, series 100 Northwest Orient, LGW-MSP.

[parabellum]

Bad day at the Office?


No, I simply don't believe that QANTAS, as a matter of course, put crew before confirmed fare paying passengers and I explained how it will sometimes work with crew who are urgently required somewhere. It is done on priorities and captains don't have the authority to bust this.


and I could sleep.


followed by;


not when folk were sleeping


Make your mind up.

The second half of your original post comes across as a disgruntled, anti-crew, passengers whinge, possibly not what you intended?.

[Espada III]

I fly Lufthansa TLV - FRA several times a year. The evening flight FRA - TLV is an A340-600 and the afternoon return is a B747-400. In terms of overall comfort the Boeing is streets ahead of the Airbus. I hope they keep them on that route.

[Ancient Observer]

para,
not anti-crew at all. Completely anti-the Qantas take-over of BA in Asia.

BA had some great staff there. Qantas enjoyed the power of cr***ing on them.

[BadgerBoi]

I booked a flight to Paris next May and was a bit put out that the leg from Sydney to Hong Kong was on such an old plane - until I saw this thread. I've got my seat upstairs booked hope I don't lose it by then, its a long time and anything could happen. Watch out any sprogs who start running up and down the stairs, you won't be doing it for very long whether I'm trying to sleep or not :=

I did enjoy the little urban myth about Qantas order ranking in Singapore that originated from the miffed (but "trusted") BA staffer. By Jove, those colonial upstarts have a nerve, eh wot old chap?

[Seat 59A]

The one I loved was the 747 SP, short and stubby with only about 12 seats upstairs which made it feel like a private jet. Somehow felt very robust and stable. Enjoyed many a trip on QF on the 747 SP when they used to fly it from BNE to Taipei and Japan.

[PAXboy]

On my very first trip to NYC, October 1986, several bonus'.

LGW~EWR on VS Upper Class.
This being the original fit as the service was still very new, the seats were nothing like the pods of today, or even the J-seat (which I rather liked) so. Upstairs was still a lounge fit out. So, you went up there for the bar and there was a big semi-circular sofa seat, that had it's back to the bulkhead. Not much space as it was a -100 or -200 (Someone will be along in a minute to tell us!)
We landed in the late afternoon at EWR on the approach that took us parallel to Manhattan and flew down the length of it on finals. As I was in the 'A' seat, I got a ringside seat of the island and (as I said, my first trip there) it looked just like it did in the movies.Sweet.

[pwalhx]

Leaving myself open to abuse with this I guess, but I have to disagree about the 747.

I recall being really excited about my first flight on a 747 which was Wardair from Manchester to Toronto back in the 80's. It was the most dissapointing experience. I have since flown the 747 of various series and cannot at all get excited by it. For a Boeing I prefer the 777.

Late 2010 I had my first A380 flight, now that was a superb flight and I have to say very quicky has become my favourte aircraft to fly on.

[PAXboy]

No abuse should come your way pwalhx, any more than when I say that I hate beer and even the smell of it, should generate abuse.

I hear many people speak eloquently of the 727 and the Tri-Star and the DC-10. Whereas, I have never seen anything appealing about tri-motors. Full Stop!! Naturally, no one here will criticise me for saying so. ;)

[Joao da Silva]

Great aircraft in it's day.

Now too noisy/uneconomic for pax.

Future is freight, followed by beer cans.

[SNS3Guppy]

It's still a great aircraft today. Still very profitable, too.

[Joao da Silva]

Like the '57 Caddy, the purchase price was paid long ago, but the running costs are high compared to more efficient new models.

So profitability depends on the mode of usage.

And with the best will in the world, they are noisy compared to more modern jets (noise footprint.)

Still a very nice passenger experience.

[MPN11]

Happy BA upper deck pax on the 744. :ok:

Less happy with my first trans-Atlantic in a DC-6 from Germany to NY ... it took half a lifetime!! :bored:

Incidentally, you could argue that the old Stratocruiser was the first 'jumbo', having 2 decks.

[PAXboy]

As long as journos STOP referring to the A380 as [any word] Jumbo. There is only one Jumbo and long may she fly over us.

[parabellum]

Now too noisy


Only on the inside and the level of comfort depends on where you sit!

I think you will find that the B747 still meets all the noise requirements of even the most noise sensitive airports.

[PAXboy]

I'm on a VS 744 in March and the return on on there 343 (or346) so I'll let you know!

[Wildpilot]

YouTube - African Skies ... a Boeing 747 Pilot's playground (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrvznu_LFNU)

I have not read any of this thread so sorry if you have seen this but I loved it and so will you if you like the old classic 747.

[Tolsti]

I popped up from Phuket to Bangkok the week before last for a city break and was delighted to see the equipment listed as 744 and upon arrival at HKT there was one on the ramp just spooling down having just arrived.

Unfortunately it was not to be as it departed before us and I travelled on an A300-600 instead. As I hadn't flown on a Jumbo for nigh on 35 years I was quite disappointed.

However the return trip provided the expected thrill as, after a long bus ride around Swampy, we drew up alongside an air bridge connected to a 744-400.

Very comfortable, plenty of room but definitely showing her age.

Unfortunately the flight only takes an hour but I left the airport with a smile.

[Joao da Silva]

Parabellum

I did not say the 747 400 was not stage III compliant, as said it was too noisy.

Let's look at some figures, for they tell their own story.

(EPNdB)
Manufacturer Model MTOW* TO APP Stage

Airbus A380-842 1245 95.1 98.0 4
Airbus A340-541 871 96.9 99.5 3
Boeing 747-400 875 97.4 102.1 3
Boeing 777-300 675 94.2 100.4 3

I took four large aircraft (the A340-600 was not in the table I accessed) and compared them for noise levels.

In doing this, I took the highest figures I could find for the Airbusses and the 777 and the lowest for the 747-400.

Stage 3 compliant, yes, but relatively far noisier than the others, not a good neighbour. Remember than dB is a logarithmic scale.

It will be interesting to see the figures for the 747-8, when released, maybe she will be stage 4 and a better neighbour.

As much as we pax may like the 747 (and I do find them very comfortable), taking a broader view, few tears will be shed by people under the flightpath, when they are turned into Bud cans.

Apologies for the crunched up numbers, I don't know how to tabulate them.

* x 1,000 lbs

Source: Aircraft Noise Levels (http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/aep/noise_levels/)

[TSR2]

Have flown on the B742, B743 and the B744 many times and agree that they are magnificent planes.

However, in respect of comfort, like all other aircraft it depends on the particular airline and the class that you travel. I have had many excellent flights but also some pretty uncomfortable long haul flights on the 747.

They have served the aviation industry well for over 30 years but alas, time is running out.

[PAXboy]

JdS the simple way to (pseudo) tabulate is to enter the figures, then select them, then choose the font COURIER NEW as it is a fixed length for each character, you can simply add spaces to separate the columns more easily. I have taken the liberty:

Airbus A380-842 1245 95.1 98.0 4
Airbus A340-541 871 96.9 99.5 3
Boeing 747-400 875 97.4 102.1 3
Boeing 777-300 675 94.2 100.4 3

Whilst I accept all the detail about the 747s that is being relayed here - I shall ignore it all! My first love was the VC-10 and I still miss her elegant shape. The 74 remains the MOST fabulous machine and if my trip in March finds her a little the worse for wear - I shall turn a blind eye. :8

[TSR2]

if my trip in March finds her a little the worse for wear - I shall turn a blind eye

I assume you will be travelling Business Class or higher, if not you may have to turn a numb cheek ;)

[parabellum]

Stage 3 compliant, yes, but relatively far noisier than the others, not a good neighbour. Remember than dB is a logarithmic scale.


Without wishing to sound too inconsiderate of others JdS, as long as the B747 remains within the requirements of stage 3 and can still turn a buck for the operators then she will, I think, continue to fly. The people in the flight path have long since sold their souls for cheap houses, triple glazing and sound proofing etc. etc. in the days of Trident, BAC1-11, B707, VC10, DC8 and so on.

On another tack, take the inclusive tour market, no requirement to give a reasonable spread of flights through the day, just get them there, to Palma, Malaga or where ever. Which will be cheaper, one B747-400 with a value written down to a few million, carrying 450-500 passengers, incurring one landing fee, one navigation charge, no overseas refelling, (unless it is cheaper, then there is a huge capacity to tank in cheap fuel), one Tech Crew, one ATC slot, one set of ground movement and handling charges etc. etc. or three B737/A320 aircraft? (I have deliberately left any maintainence costs out but doubt if they would be deal breakers).

Even on the longer distances to, say Egypt, Cyprus etc. the B747-400 will be very light and operating in a very fuel efficient envelope, incurring only two pressurisation cycles instead of six. Additionally, as it will be quite light, if it uses a Reduced Thrust take-off, it will be quiet too!:)

Oh yes, I totally agree with PAXboy too, there only ever was, or ever will be, one Jumbo, that is the B747.
The A380 would be more appropriatly named the Dugong, (or White Elephant!:E).

[mutt]

I did not say the 747 400 was not stage III compliant, as said it was too noisy. Too noisy by who's standards? Have you compared the -400 with a -300 or -200? Or even a Stage 3 B727? If you do, please make sure that you have a very sharp pencil.

Regardless of the stage 3 certification, some airports operate more stringent noise limits, such as Stage 3 - 10dBA, or the QC system in Heathrow. So if you seriously believe that the -400 isnt a nice neighbour, then take it up with you local authorities and have them change the limits.

The -8 will be Stage 4 compliant, EVEN THOUGH IT ISN'T A REQUIREMENT :)

Mutt

[Joao da Silva]

Mutt

You asked

Have you compared the -400 with a -300 or -200? Or even a Stage 3 B727?I have now and the numbers speak for themselves.

Aircraft MTOW* TO APP Stage
Boeing 747-400 875 97.4 102.1 3
Boeing 727-200** 203 94.3 99.3 3

**ROHR STC SA4363NM

Parabellum, you said

On another tack, take the inclusive tour market, no requirement to give a reasonable spread of flights through the day, just get them there, to Palma, Malaga or where ever. Which will be cheaper, one B747-400 with a value written down to a few million, carrying 450-500 passengers, incurring one landing fee, one navigation charge, no overseas refelling, (unless it is cheaper, then there is a huge capacity to tank in cheap fuel), one Tech Crew, one ATC slot, one set of ground movement and handling charges etc. etc. or three B737/A320 aircraft? (I have deliberately left any maintainence costs out but doubt if they would be deal breakers).I could not find any data for Palma or Malaga, but did find some movements by aircraft type for Bristol (UK) 2009, a regional airport that does offer IT flights to such destinations.

The number of 747 movements in 2009 was a big round number, 0.

I think this shows your argument is fine in theory, but does not happen in practice.

Aircraft Movements
Airbus A319 22082
Boeing 757-200 2801
Airbus A320 2120
Boeing 757-300 17
Airbus A321 113
Boeing 767-300 104
BAe Avro RJ-100 356
Cessna Citation 2
BAe Avro RJ-85 677
Embraer ERJ-145 3
BAe146-200 593
Embraer ERJ-190 14
BAe146-300 372
Fokker 70 1508
Boeing 737-300 154
Fokker 100 665
Boeing 737-500 9
Boeing MD80 3
Boeing 737-700 1693
Boeing MD83 1
Boeing 737-800 9462
DC-9 2

Let's just face it, the 747 was a magnificent aircraft and created 40 years of competitive advantage for Boeing, but it is now in it's declining phase, where over a period of many years, the 742, 743 and 744 fleet sizes will decrease as it is replaced by newer and more efficient fleets.

The 747-8 appears to a good future in the parcel business and so will carry the torch into the future.

But as a widely seen passenger aircraft, the clock is ticking.

Paxboy, many thanks for your kind instruction!!

[parabellum]

I could not find any data for Palma or Malaga, but did find some movements by aircraft type for Bristol (UK) 2009, a regional airport that does offer IT flights to such destinations.


UK airports that fly a lot of inclusive tour flights are:

London-Gatwick.
Manchester.
Birmingham.
East Midlands
Luton
Cardiff
Leeds,
Glasgow
Newcastle
Teesside
Liverpool
Etc.

and I was talking about future uses for the B747-400 when it is superceded in scheduled airline service.

[Joao da Silva]

UK airports that fly a lot of inclusive tour flights are

Couldn't find any data for those, BTW, Bristol was the only movements by aircraft type that popped up.

and I was talking about future uses for the B747-400 when it is superceded in scheduled airline service.

To make this viable, I think you would need to change the way that IT flights operate and consolidate traffic from several operators.

Also, the reliability of older aircraft might raise a question.

But logically, I can see what you are getting at.

[Wannabe Flyer]

I flew the A 340-500 recently and even though it is a newer aircraft with all bells and whistles...........still did not have the shoulder space of a 747!

Does anyone know if the 747-8 has been ordered by any carrier for PAX service?

[parabellum]

I think, but I am not certain, that Lufthansa have ordered a PAX version.

[ZKSUJ]

Lufthansa has ordered the 747-8 Pax version, and Korean as well if I'm not mistaken. Hopefully a few more airlines to come

[Joao da Silva]

Wannabe Flyer

747-8I http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm?content=displaystandardreport.cfm&pageid=m25065&RequestTimeout=20000

747-8F http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm?content=displaystandardreport.cfm&pageid=m25065&RequestTimeout=20000

Regarding the 340-500, it depends which airline you fly with.

Were you in Y on EK? They put 8 across for ultra long flights, whereas SQ run all business class, with 4 across, so it depends on how the airline chooses to cram you in.

I recently had the very unpleasant experience of being the middle of 5 on a 777, fortunately on a 1 hour domestic flight, but the memory makes me cringe, even now ;-)

[Wannabe Flyer]

@Joao

Yes it was EK. 2 4 2 configuration. 3 Hour flight. The TG 747 was a 3 4 3 configuration but just seemed bigger.

On a side note the EK 330 has probably the most uncomfortable seats in Y. They even beat the cardboard CX seats!

[Joao da Silva]

On a side note the EK 330 has probably the most uncomfortable seats in Y. I agree with that. Took a 2 hour flight last year, so didn't book business class for a short hop and really wished I had :uhoh:

On interiors, it is interesting to note

747 = 6.1m , less estimated 2m for aisles = 4.1m divided by 10 seats = .41 m available per seat

330/340 = 5.3m. less estimated 2m for aisles, divided by 8 seats = .41m available per seat

Having said that, the 747 has virtually straight cabin walls (downstairs), whilst the Airbus has noticeable curved walls (that could add to the perception of space) and I guess the types of seat will have an impact, too.

Even though the EK seats were awful, I found the aisle seat of the pair by the window to feel quite open and airy.

[Wannabe Flyer]

I am on the EK flight in a couple of weeks again and will do a full SWOT on the 330 and 340 :8

[PAXboy]

W. F.... but just seemed bigger.I think that JdS has nailed this - it's the height of the walls and that the cabin ceiling is further away, due to the wider body. You are correct with 'seemed'. Of course, some of those 'pods' in First can be sooo cocoon like - that you feel cramped all over again!