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strake
4th Jan 2011, 15:39
I'm all for security and common sense checks - it's accepted as part of flying life.
I now have to travel through Stansted airport every week. Shown below is text relating to how liquids are to be carried on board in hand-luggage. It is copied direct from the Stansted website:

"...They must be carried separately in a single bag which is:
Transparent and resealable
No larger than 20cm x 20cm (8in x 8in)
Able to close properly with all the items inside...."

My plastic bag, which I have used without any problem since these regulations came into force and for the last four months travelling weekly through Stansted, was today held up by a security person and proclaimed "unallowable". The reason? It is zipped shut which apparently, is now "verboten". So p****d- off was I at this latest piece of ignorance and stupidity, which cost me a rather nice xmas pressie smellies bottle from my Mum, I counted to ten and made my way to the control desk. The resident uniformed person gave me an unctuous explanation about how the new test was: "the bag must be able to be pressed together with no air being obviously expelled".
As one can see from the above text, no such test is mentioned on the website.
Will this madness ever stop?

L'aviateur
4th Jan 2011, 15:50
I'd highly recommend writing a letter, the whole idea of the plastic bag is so that the items are visible. You've not detracted from that.
Would be interesting to see what the final answer is about that.

TFlyguy
4th Jan 2011, 16:44
Zip up transparent cases such as pencil cases (which I used for years) have been banned for crews at Gatwick for a few months now.

When I queried this I was told that they would be banned for passengers in the near future

PAXboy
4th Jan 2011, 17:03
OK, I'll volunteer to ask the dumb question:- If sealing the plastic bag with a zipper (where a ridge is pressed between two others and has been the standard way of sealing plastic bags for two decades or more) HOW do they want the bag sealed?

Since they state "Able to close properly with all the items inside...." are they happy with a twist closure? ANY method of sealing a plastic bag will expel air. Since you are standing over it, any malign substance would affect you as well.

Sheesh.

Daysleeper
4th Jan 2011, 17:39
A perfectly airtight, resealable clear plastic bag...are they having a giraffe? :ugh:

Write them a letter and ask what they actually mean , then let the rest if us know cos I'm sure if STN do it today the other BAA places will be doing it soon and I can't figure what plastic bag would actually fit that description.

Skipness One Echo
4th Jan 2011, 18:39
and I can't figure what plastic bag would actually fit that description.

Utterly moronic. However the one good thing about BAA and Gatwick is the free bag they hand out before security. I grabbed five ages ago and still use the first.

radeng
4th Jan 2011, 19:02
I've never put my insulin in a plastic bag and nobody has ever said anything - Sweden, Belgium, France, Switzerland, Germany, Italy, US, Spain, Canary Islands LHR or LGW or dununda or in Singapore. I will avoid Stansted, Birmingham and Manchester though because of their reputations.

pzu
4th Jan 2011, 20:25
I would suggest that an enquiry of the Minister with DIRECT responsibility for said regulations, copied to his/her Opposition counterpart and your local MP and perhaps even the MP for Stansted is called for

If nothing else you may get four pieces of toilet paper in return ;):D

PZULBA - Out of Africa (Retired)

strake
4th Jan 2011, 20:31
I have written a polite note to Stansted Customer Relations asking why and when this requirement was imposed. In addition, I have asked why the requirement is not specified on their official website

I will post the reply here when I get it ;)

Joao da Silva
5th Jan 2011, 06:29
More lunacy from the authorities of 'Monkey Island', as the UK is lovingly known in much of Europe.

Skipness One Echo
5th Jan 2011, 09:03
The requirement has *always* been there since the liquid ban was introduced.

All liquids to be placed in a resealable bag whose dimesnsions are prescribed and must be of clear plastic. It doesn't matter under the rules that you have one item that is < 100ml as the rules say they must be in the bag above. The facr that some airports are lax on the rules the DFT brought in is also of some minor concern. How hard is it to put your gear into one bag, picked up free from any BAA airport?

Being called "monkey island" from an economic basket case like Portugal isn't quite as clever as you might wish mon ami. Has the IMF pitched up yet?

strake
5th Jan 2011, 09:41
picked up free from any BAA airport?

Um.. you might like to check the veracity of that statement re BAA Stansted...

Joao da Silva
5th Jan 2011, 10:25
Being called "monkey island" from an economic basket case like Portugal isn't quite as clever as you might wish mon ami. Has the IMF pitched up yet?

Well as least we have nice weather :E

Capetonian
5th Jan 2011, 10:34
Being called "monkey island" from an economic basket case like Portugal isn't quite as clever as you might wish mon ami. Has the IMF pitched up yet?

Skipness One Echo : Pot ... kettle .... black?

I spend a fair amount of time in Portugal and in most respects it compares more than favourably with the UK. It may not have a great economy but the UK's is not exactly in great shape either.

Service delivery and the infrastructure in Portugal are possibly not as sophisticated as the UK but things work better, people are a damn sight more pleasant and relaxed, there is relatively little crime outside of certain areas which are know to be dodgy, meals in restaurants are good and inexpensive, and generally things work. If I had a free choice between living in GB or Portugal ... it wouldn't be GB!

Joao da Silva
5th Jan 2011, 12:05
Just before this gets nasty, the UK is known as 'Monkey Island' by many Europeans, due to many things that appear very strange to outsiders, such as this latest STN action.

Monkey Island was a very popular computer game, where the hero had to work his way though a mysterious environment, to win the heart of his beloved.

So it is not intended to be nasty and my use reflects the trouble Strake encountered in getting a reasonable explanation.

Skipness One Echo
5th Jan 2011, 12:54
Absolutely right, please accept my apologies, I should know better.
Enough of the monkeying about.....

picked up free from any BAA airport?
I haven't flown through STN since October. Have they begun charging?
LGW was free last week, (ex BAA I know), LHR free too.

Joao da Silva
5th Jan 2011, 17:22
Skipness

No apology needed, I had assumed that the M.I. joke was common knowledge in the UK, as well, but it obviously is not and could sound rude without context.

I thought your reply was quite funny.

daz211
5th Jan 2011, 18:23
Plastic bags were free at STN last month ..

PAXboy
5th Jan 2011, 23:10
JdS I've lived in the UK a fair old while and never heard the M.I. ref. When I heard it, I thought of Gibraltar, even though it's not an island, but it has monkeys.

Personally, I think it's very funny to think of Europeans referring to us in that way. We are a nation that is changing fairly rapidly, both over the last 50 years and in the next 50 I'm sure. No nation can back to what it was - although many say they want that perceived security and many politicians say that they will provide it. Naturally, it is impossible and so we get an even stranger mess!

VP8
6th Jan 2011, 00:03
PAXboy.............

They are actually APES (Barbary) on LXGB not monkeys!!:ok:

Got bit by one when posted out there:}

VEEPS

Andrew Bowyer
6th Jan 2011, 07:05
Going through STN early December a rather loud female security officer was shouting repeatedly that they didn't give out free bags anymore and that any liquids found not in a bag would be destroyed. The only solution was to exit the queue, get scanned back out then buy a bag (oh you do get three of them in a the pack!) for £1 from a machine that looked rather like an old fashioned bubble gum dispenser. All because I forgot that the little jar of handcream I bought landside counted as liquids.

Then back in the queue for another 25 minutes - my own error but altogether hardly customer friendly.

Flying_Frisbee
6th Jan 2011, 07:17
6th Jan 2011 01:10
PAXboy
JdS I've lived in the UK a fair old while and never heard the M.I. ref. When I heard it, I thought of Gibraltar, even though it's not an island, but it has monkeys.

The Germans sometimes call the British "Inseln Affen", or Island Apes, but I've never heard Britain called Monkey Island either.

Joao da Silva
6th Jan 2011, 08:51
Inseln AffenI don't think that this is quite as friendly.

Paxboy, most people are not anti British, we just find things a little 'different', sometimes. Probably it works both ways, as our own cultures are transparent to us.

For example, Paris Match once published an article that concluded the Brits were a little unpredictable and slightly exciting race, based on 'evidence' such as a positive correlation between rainfall and the purchase of open top cars, according to the magazine.

In Portugal, grown men fight bulls by shouting at them and then jumping on to their bodies, but this is completely normal, you understand ;)

strake
6th Jan 2011, 09:28
Andrew Boyer, welcome and thank you for confirming that I wasn't hearing things when told to "go and buy a bag" by Stansted security.

To continue the thread drift for a moment, as I am in Germany (East) I decided to ask a work colleague about "Island Monkey's" at dinner last night. I think it's fair to say that "Inselaffes" or Island Apes is a derogatory term in the manner of Krauts or Squareheads. As seen with the recent Wikileaks saga, it would appear we all like to gossip, bitch and generally be mildly rude about people who are different to us. As far as I and my German colleague were concerned, we laughed and sank another couple of beers together.

PAXboy
6th Jan 2011, 12:29
Thanks for joining me in Mokeying around with the thread. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/tongue.gif

I particularly liked the reference to open topped cars and rain. All nations do indeed make fun of others and I enjoyed my time working in Germany and could see what a great sense of humour the Germans have.

VP8 I appreciate the correction, even as I wrote it my mind was thinking they were not monkeys but was too lazy to check Wikipedia. But am embarrassed that I did not know my Apes from my Monkeys ... :uhoh:

[That, for non UK folks is a play on words with the colloquial phrase to state that someone does not know what they are doing. We say: 'He does not know his @rse from his elbow'.] I guess I'd better go an do some work now. :sad:

Binman62
6th Jan 2011, 14:48
The Inselaffes remark has been around for years and when I first heard it almost 25 years ago I too joined in the laughter and sank a few more beers.

I tend also to agree that Europeans are not anti British, (English perhaps but not the rest of us.).

I also find it amusing that Britain is so anti Europe and in particular their currency. If a Euro is worth 85p when Ireland, Greece, Portugal and Spain are in trouble, then I shudder to think what it would be worth if they were not. The £ is not just the sick currency of Europe but almost worthless elsewhere.

The situation as described at STN is shocking on many levels and again highlights the ludicrous regulation that is due to be repealled in the next year but also at the continuing incompetance and greed of the BAA.

pamann
7th Jan 2011, 01:14
Plastic bags were free at STN last month ..

They weren't on November 6th!

I know this because my partner was turned away from security there and referred to a coin operated machine that dispenses 3 bags for a £1 a'la Luton style.

Times have indeed changed at London's third airport.

You have been warned.

radeng
7th Jan 2011, 05:48
London's third airport or third world airport? Though that could apply to LHR and LGW, too.

SLFAussie
7th Jan 2011, 06:52
While travelling through Stansted airport on the 25th of December free plastic zip-lock bags were not available and a note on the desk of Security person checking boarding passes informed personnel that Boots was no longer selling plastic bags and to please stop referring passengers to Boots.

I had no problems with my liquids in a bag like this: http://www.muji.eu/pages/online.asp?V=1&Sec=18&Sub=79&PID=3402
but the bag was barely half full.

And on return to Stansted, the immigration officer had his feet on his desk. Welcome to Monkey Island!

OFSO
7th Jan 2011, 19:22
Paxboy wrote: I enjoyed my time working in Germany and could see what a great sense of humour the Germans have.

Well I lived and worked in Germany from 1968 to 1993 and always wondered where they kept their sense of humour, now I know why I never saw a trace of it..... Paxboy had it !

OFSO

Piltdown Man
7th Jan 2011, 21:29
If you compare the attitude of the average UK member of airport security staff with their counterparts in virtually every other European country, you'll typically find that the most unpleasant people are to be found in Britain. Furthermore, the powers that these unpleasant, odious numpties have are virtually unchallengeable because of the "Police State" created by that equally foul Tony Blair. I'll only tolerate one air journey a year because that's all I can stand. Our security system is only window dressing because those who seek to do us harm just have make it past the holes left by the uniformed idiots. Furthermore, to do us real harm, all they have to do is threaten us and our own government aided and abetted by DfT, Transec and the muppets at the airports, will do the damage for them.

As for sealable bags, they nobody really cares. Just so long as "security" look like they are doing something nothing will ever happen. There will only ever be more and more pointless security because big business is now making a packet out of the system. I wouldn't put it past them to finance the bad guys so they can sell some more equipment. You don't believe me? How about the very miss-quoted comment made by Jo Moore "...a good day to bury bad news" (she actually wrote "It's now a very good day to get out anything we want to bury") and remember who she worked for and in which government department? Complain by not travelling.

PM

YorkshireTyke
7th Jan 2011, 22:11
..........I have written a polite note to Stansted Customer Relations asking why and when this requirement was imposed. In addition, I have asked why the requirement is not specified on their official website

I will post the reply here when I get it

Breath is still being held ............

Just WHAT is wrong with the common or garden Ziploc bag ?

I have a free bag given away by Los Angeles security staff, it doesn't lock, pity I didn't grab a handful, and UK security can get stuffed if it isn't good enough ?

I've had enough.

( oh ! really officer ? why don't you put your head inside it and I'll show you if it seals or not. )

strake
8th Jan 2011, 06:42
Quote:
..........I have written a polite note to Stansted Customer Relations asking why and when this requirement was imposed. In addition, I have asked why the requirement is not specified on their official website

I will post the reply here when I get it
Breath is still being held ............

Well, I checked my email this morning and guess what? Yep, nothing.

So, I've sent a reminder :p

For clarity, I would state that I was not using a "Ziplok" bag but a "zipped bag" with said zip running across the top from end to end. Whilst a lawyer (or come to think of it, a security screener) might have fun with the definitions, any reasonable person would accept that my bag exactly met the requirement as stated on the Stansted website for liquids bags: "Transparent, resealable and able to close properly". I have used the same bag at Stansted and indeed around the world for the last two or three years without any problem.
Interestingly, a chap behind me in the line (having witnessed my irritation) said he had been pulled up by Stansted security some months ago because his bag wasn't transparent...it had "Waitrose" written on the front.

BillS
8th Jan 2011, 08:04
If it is a bag closed with a zipper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zipper) :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/Plastic-_and_Nylonzipper.jpg/450px-Plastic-_and_Nylonzipper.jpg
I can understand - that would not give a seal.
A very rare occasion when I side with security!

Totally different from a ziploc zip (TM)
http://www.ziploc.com/Products/PublishingImages/Large%20Images/Ziploc_DblZipper_Freezer_Pint.jpg

STN clearly state:
and the bag must be sealed.

strake
8th Jan 2011, 09:38
BillS. Where does it "clearly state" what you wrote above?

BAA Stansted: Hand baggage (http://www.stanstedairport.com/portal/page/Stansted%5EGeneral%5EAirport+information%5EStansted+security %5EHand+baggage/c23cb8874d9b7210VgnVCM10000036821c0a____/448c6a4c7f1b0010VgnVCM200000357e120a____/#liquids)

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Hand baggage


Liquids – 100ml rule
Only limited quantities of liquids may be carried through airport security into the departure lounge. This includes bottled drinks, suntan lotion, fragrances, cosmetics and toiletries.
The following restrictions apply to all liquids, creams, gels, pastes and aerosols taken through security control:
Liquids may only be carried in containers holding 100ml or less.
They must be carried separately in a single bag which is:
Transparent and resealable
No larger than 20cm x 20cm (8in x 8in)
Able to close properly with all the items inside.
At security control, place the bag in the tray with your other items.
Liquids in containers over 100ml will not be permitted through security – please pack them in your hold baggage instead.
The following exceptions may be made to the 100ml rule:
Baby food or baby milk: Please carry only what you need for the flight. You may be asked to open the containers and taste the contents.
Liquid medicines: You may be asked to taste medicines, or provide evidence that you need them for your journey. Find out more about travelling with medicines.

Joao da Silva
8th Jan 2011, 13:14
BillS

If you look carefully on the front of the Ziploc box, you will see the words "double zipper", so I repectfully suggest that your post is bolleaux, mind you, if STN is short of a few highly trained security peeps, they might welcome someone like you to their ranks, as you seem to have a creative mind.

From the Oxford Dictionary, the definition of the word 'seal.' (Not the large sea thingy.)

a device or substance used to join two things together or render something impervious. Ø the state or fact of being joined or rendered impervious with a seal.From the same source, here is the definition of impervious

not allowing fluid to pass through.If Stansted require the bag to be impervious, they need to state this, since the word is ambiguous. If they require the bag to be hermetically sealed, they need to say so,

One of these days, someone with some free time and a sense of humour is going to sue their airline for breach of contract, as the airline collect the security charge and require the pax to comply with it. If the pax complies with the notice, as Strake obviously did, then the airline is liable for the subsequent losses in my opinion, which is that of a commercial officer, not a lawyer.

Inseln Affen, indeed (at least the STN security people, not most Brits, who are nice people.)

BillS
8th Jan 2011, 18:09
"and the bag must be sealed"
BillS. Where does it "clearly state" what you wrote above?

STN airport guide - security (http://www.stansted-airport-guide.co.uk/security.html)
Liquids

Some liquids (e.g. gels, lotions, pastes, liquid cosmetics, foams and foodstuffs) are now allowed through airport security check points. There are the following restrictions on the quantity of liquids:

Liquids may only be carried within separate containers each of which with a capacity not greater than 100ml.
These containers must be brought to the airport contained in a single, transparent, re-sealable plastic bag, which itself must not exceed 1 litre in capacity (approximately 20cms x 20cms). The contents of the plastic bag must fit comfortably and the bag must be sealed.
Each passenger may carry only one such bag of liquids. The bag must be presented for examination.
Liquids that can not be placed inside the re-sealable bag must be packed into the hold luggage and checked in. Liquids of any amount can still be carried in luggage checked into the aircraft hold.

@joao
Many thanks for those OE definitions - exactly my point.:ok:

A "zipper" of the type depicted in the first image of my post (and I did say "if" that was the type used) would not "seal" the bag. It would not prevent any liquid leakage.
The ziploc "zipper" (TM) or "smart zip" would, if sealed, prevent liquid loss.

Certain fluids leaking within security equipment could compromise its effectiveness. I can understand why they might insist upon a sealed bag as defined in the OE dictionary - rendered impervious to liquids - not allowing liquid to pass through.

Not bolleaux - just English, I'm afraid!

There are many things very wrong with UK airport security and its implementation - but lets pick the issues that are wrong.

Joao da Silva
8th Jan 2011, 18:25
BillS

Enjoy your bananas.

strake
8th Jan 2011, 18:47
BillS

Sorry old boy but that isn't the BAA Stansted website. It's some ersatz version that makes money out of people clicking on it when they put "Stansted" into Google. :ok:

kenhughes
9th Jan 2011, 07:52
Couple of points: 1. If a bag is resealable, then it must have been sealed in the first place :8

2. If you read far enough on the official Stanstead site, you will find "Security FAQs (http://www.stanstedairport.com/portal/page/Stansted%5EGeneral%5EAirport+information%5EStansted+security %5ESecurity+FAQs/21aeb8874d9b7210VgnVCM10000036821c0a____/448c6a4c7f1b0010VgnVCM200000357e120a____/)" and at the very end it says - (my emphasis)

Security control
What do I need to do with my transparent resealable bag?
Have it ready for inspection at security. Ensure it is fastened closed and kept separate to your hand luggage...

Rest of BS snipped.

Joao da Silva
9th Jan 2011, 09:04
The words 'fastened closed' further suggest to me that the bag is not required to be impervious or hermetically sealed.

If that was the case, the form of words would be something like 'your transparent bag must be sealed.'

hotmetal
9th Jan 2011, 14:19
Certain fluids leaking within security equipment could compromise its effectiveness. I can understand why they might insist upon a sealed bag as defined in the OE dictionary - rendered impervious to liquids - not allowing liquid to pass through.


Well the world seemed to manage OK without putting liquids in sealed bags prior to 2006 so obviously this is not a reason to have sealed bags.

Pax Vobiscum
9th Jan 2011, 14:49
The famous inhabitants of Gibraltar are actually monkeys, technically known as Barbary Macaques. The misnomer of 'ape' was applied because they have very short tails.

Note to self: must get out more.

Seat 59A
27th Jan 2011, 15:07
Amusing thread. I can't help thinking that there isn't much point squabbling over definitions of what is 're-sealable' and what isn't. The point is that the idiots at security can define in anyway they want and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it once you're in the line. In fact, they can (and I suspect do) change the requirements every couple of hours for their own amusement. On the other hand, remember that the liquids ban is due to be scrapped quite soon by the EU, whilst I have noticed that in many places (especially US) it is pretty much ignored. Over the past 6 months I have taken to leaving my bagged liquids in my luggage and it has never been picked up. On one occasion I walked through with a 300 ml bottle of contact lens solution - again, ignored or not noticed. If the latter, I suppose it is quite worrying really, but all the more reason to be completely cynical about these idiotic measures and their inconsistent and incompetent application.

Monkey Island and Barbary Apes indeed ... haha, quite apt. BAA = Barbary Apes Authority?

rareair
3rd Feb 2011, 00:01
I have found an almost perfect correlation between my plastic zip up wash bag being rejected, and a the presence of a bag vending machine.

strake
5th Feb 2011, 18:07
I invite contributors/readers of this thread to re-read the statement on the BAA website when I first wrote of the confiscation of my liquids and compare it with today's version:

Early January:

Liquids – 100ml rule
Only limited quantities of liquids may be carried through airport security into the departure lounge. This includes bottled drinks, suntan lotion, fragrances, cosmetics and toiletries.
The following restrictions apply to all liquids, creams, gels, pastes and aerosols taken through security control:
Liquids may only be carried in containers holding 100ml or less.
They must be carried separately in a single bag which is:
Transparent and resealable (My bold)
No larger than 20cm x 20cm (8in x 8in)
Able to close properly with all the items inside.
At security control, place the bag in the tray with your other items.
Liquids in containers over 100ml will not be permitted through security – please pack them in your hold baggage instead.

Today:

Liquids – 100ml rule
Only limited quantities of liquids may be carried through airport security into the departure lounge. This includes bottled drinks, suntan lotion, fragrances, cosmetics and toiletries.
The following restrictions apply to all liquids, creams, gels, pastes and aerosols taken through security control:
Liquids may only be carried in containers holding 100ml or less.
They must be carried separately in a single bag which is:
Transparent, resealable and airtight (My bold)
No larger than 20cm x 20cm (8in x 8in)
Able to close properly with all the items inside.
At security control, please ensure the plastic bag is removed from any hand luggage and placed in the tray with your other items in preparation for screening.
Liquids in containers over 100ml will not be permitted through security – please pack them in your hold baggage instead.
To save time and expense please come prepared with your own correct sized plastic bag. If you forget to bring your own bag, plastic bag dispensers are conveniently located in check in areas before the entrance to security. Plastic bags are dispensed in multiples of four costing £1.

My bag was the correct size, clear and zipped. However, if you pushed it hard enough, which the little H****r on the scanner did, some air would of course come out. So, now Stansted have had the decency to publish this requirement for future travellers (without compensating me) some one month later, I'd be interested to know what force said bags have to withstand to be "airtight"? Or maybe those on sale for £1 won't have to be subjected to such rigorous testing........?

farci
6th Feb 2011, 09:59
I invite contributors/readers of this thread to re-read the statement on the BAA website when I first wrote of the confiscation of my liquids and compare it with today's version:
Strake - sorry to spoil a good rant but STN is only quoting the requirements shown on Direct.gov (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Publictransport/AirtravelintheUK/DG_078179):
If you need certain liquids during the flight, you can take them into the cabin in limited quantities as follows:
containers must hold no more than 100ml
containers must be carried in a single, transparent, re-sealable plastic bag, which holds no more than a litre and measures approximately 20cm x 20cm
contents must fit comfortably inside the bag so it can be sealed
the bag must not be knotted or tied at the top
each passenger can carry only one of these bags
the bag must be presented for examination at the airport security pointContainers larger than 100ml (excluding essential medicines) will not be allowed through the security point even if they are only part full.

SamYeager
6th Feb 2011, 14:41
@farci


Strake - sorry to spoil a good rant but STN is only quoting the requirements shown on Direct.gov (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Publictransport/AirtravelintheUK/DG_078179):
If you need certain liquids during the flight, you can take them into the cabin in limited quantities as follows:

containers must hold no more than 100ml
containers must be carried in a single, transparent, re-sealable plastic bag, which holds no more than a litre and measures approximately 20cm x 20cm My bold.
contents must fit comfortably inside the bag so it can be sealed
the bag must not be knotted or tied at the top
each passenger can carry only one of these bags
the bag must be presented for examination at the airport security pointContainers larger than 100ml (excluding essential medicines) will not be allowed through the security point even if they are only part full.


With all due respect the point strake is making is that BAA's requirements have changed from 'Transparent and resealable' to 'Transparent, resealable and airtight'. The excerpt you have provided from direct.gov only requires 'transparent, re-sealable' as shown by the part I have bolded.

However I must admit that I really don't see why anyone would be carrying liquids, other than medicines, through security anyway.

hotmetal
6th Feb 2011, 17:22
Well one example of people who have to put up with the airport security theatre are professional pilots on a 5 day tour around Europe with no facility to check baggage in the hold. Trusted with £60m of aircraft and 250 lives but not the toothpaste. Madness.

SamYeager
6th Feb 2011, 19:03
Well one example of people who have to put up with the airport security theatre are professional pilots on a 5 day tour around Europe with no facility to check baggage in the hold.


Ah! :O Are cabin crew equally unable to check baggage in the hold or does this just affect pilots?

strake
7th Feb 2011, 09:50
SamYeager,

You understand my point. Thank you. It is the underhand change to Stansted's rules which is annoying.

As far as:

However I must admit that I really don't see why anyone would be carrying liquids, other than medicines, through security anyway.

Maybe I'm missing the point of the question but I have to do two/three day trips around Europe every week or so. I'm able to do this using the 10kg limit for carry-on so I don't need to check baggage. That means I am bringing a small amount of toothpaste, shaving gel, deodorants etc in my little plastic bag. All those items are considered "liquids" under the rules. The only alternative is to buy those items after security (both ways every time) or use checked in baggage.

Katamarino
7th Feb 2011, 10:47
Why does it have to be airtight, when you can open it anyway...?

These people take the definition of "moron" to a whole new level...

etrang
7th Feb 2011, 10:54
Certain fluids leaking within security equipment could compromise its effectiveness. I can understand why they might insist upon a sealed bag

Now you mention it, that does make some sense.

the world seemed to manage OK without putting liquids in sealed bags prior to 2006 so obviously this is not a reason to have sealed bags.

I can imagine when the "liquids in bags" rule was introduced someone thought - we're going to be scanning a lot of these bags lets have a rule that they must be sealed.

hotmetal
8th Feb 2011, 19:05
Now you're just making reasons up that sort of fit. That wasn't the purpose of the bag. There are less liquids going through xray machines now than prior to 2006. This is just as I predicted in 2006. As the years march on people forget the reason the rules were introduced and the rules take on a self perpetuating life of their own. People forget what it was all originally about and the rules morph in a sort of mission creep into new rules. There was originally nothing about the bag being airtight. The bag was to provide some sort of limit to the amount of liquids brought through otherwise people would bring loads of 100ml containers stuffed to overflowing out of a bag.

Pohutu
8th Feb 2011, 23:17
Some time ago I heard the explanation that the bag had to be airtight so that, if necessary, an air sample could be taken. It could well be another reason that was made up to fit, but it sounded reasonably plausible at the time.

Pohutu

pacer142
9th Feb 2011, 08:40
At LTN the bags are on sale inside security so no need to scan out. Though I can see how STN's more cramped layout might make that difficult.

auntyice
9th Feb 2011, 12:57
I have had this problem myself and until recently I had used a clear zip type bag you can buy in boots, but Gatwick put a stop to that last Sunday.

I have been told the bags have to be airtight so any liquids that may contain exposives will build up a concentation of vapours in the bag so when they stick the sniffer rod inside it would be easier to detect.
An ordinary zipped bag would allow the bag to be ventilated to some extent and make the test less reliable.

SLFAussie
9th Feb 2011, 21:10
Ok, so the bag has to be airtight so that residue gas due to contraband explosives can be detected. Surely this means that the current liquid limit is too high because the 100ml containers inside the 20x20cm bag could be sufficiently explosive to be a danger to the aircraft and passengers. Why else would you need to detect these gases? So to be absolutely safe surely all liquids should be banned?

Oh I forgot. Logic doesn't come into it.:ugh:

Basil
10th Feb 2011, 14:30
strake,
Thanks for the headsup on that.
I'm a retired pilot and only fly as pax on LH about 3x year - try to use car on UK mainland rather than fly due probs as reported.

Only thing I can add is, when challenged by security, police, authority in general, don't argue; express regret and ask how to resolve problem.
i.e. do not open encounter, as did young Bas many years ago, to couple of plods, with: "WTF do YOU want?!"
(Note to Bas: Start taking your own advice.)