EK Staff travel with kids

[Comanche]

I have seen some conflicting info on staff travel with kids. Apparently, kids not allowed J class for F/O's, so does this mean that if Y class is full, you won't get on with the family even if there are empty seats in J or F? Would they not bump up revenue passengers instead? If this is the case, do some staff consider other airlines like BA for staff travel on ID90 as as they DO provide business seats even for kids if no economy is available?

[Oblaaspop]

It's true that F/O's kids cannot use J class (stupid rule!!), but if you have a firm ticket, they should not be bumped off the flight.

If you only have a Standby ticket, by the very nature of standby, obviously they can be bumped!

This is why when travelling with the kids, I would only book confirmed unless the flight is wide open (which rarely happens!).

Hope this helps?

[InnocentBystander]

The way I understand it, it's that you can't even buy Cat C tickets in J class for kids because of the staff age limit?

The way I understand it, F/O's kids ride in Y no matter what, unless you buy full fare. Am I wrong?

[Oblaaspop]

That is Correct as far as F/O's are concerned, Skippers' kids can go J.

[kennedy]

Commanche,
Not only that the kids are in cattle class ( for FO's) one parent must be there with them as well. makes those 16 hrs LAX/SFO/IAH's more joyful.

Of course on upgrade, it's J class but no F for the kids/one parent.

And no, they will not upgrade you on space available basis and they will not upgrade passengers to make room for you either.

[kingpost]

Comanche

You're doing the right research before you make the decision, some guys just jump at the job and never stop whining.

Keep exploring area's that are not clear to you. My advice, if you're out of work right now, then come across. If you have a job, forget about the temptation of flying a new wide bodied aircraft at EK, it's only another aircraft, think out your lifestyle that will change.

You may find that your salary could double by coming here but it's the price that you pay for being here, in my opinion they don't pay enough.

Good luck with your decision

[jumbo1]

My experience is they will bump up full fare to make way for stby staff. It's still revenue for them.
rgds
J

[Comanche]

By joining EK as an FO, my take-home pay now as a skipper would be divided by almost 50%. However, when making a decision I only take into account disposable income. So I compare the money I have to spend in DXB and here in Europe after paying my mortgage, council tax, utilities and schools. Also, if I want to send my kids to good schools here in Europe they would take a very big chunk out of my income. HOWEVER, if I cannot even get my kids into an affordable school the first year in DXB because most are all full, I would be very frustrated to begin with. Add on that being denied boarding a flight with family on SBY tickets because there is no space in Y class, with still empty seats in business, that would really not make my day. Don't care too much about flying a shiny wide body, the ones I fly now are shiny anyway, but getting tired of doing the same 12 - 15 (ultra) short routes all year long from my base. Spend about 10% of my block hours in cruise, the rest in stepped descents, climbs, taxiing and stressful turnarounds.

So just to clarify......if I turn up with kids on non-firm tickets say going on holiday to Mauritius, do they turn me away even if there are seats in business? That's certainly not the way other airlines work. Very few would leave behind staff (even other airline staff) with still unfilled seats in the A/C.

Some may say I am overthinking this too much, but it is better to know the the facts before joining so there are less nasty surprises.

[777boyindubai]

Hi Comanche,

You are a wise man to ask lots of questions. Wish I did before joining.

In relation to staff travel, they WILL leave you and the family at DXB or in Mauritius even if there are seats in Y class if you haven't got firm tickets.

Why? Because they can.

:ugh:

[BYMONEK]

Well, I beg to differ. Although I know of one Purser who was left in Singapore because the agent was a jobsworth, I know of many more cases, myself included, where we got on. Most outstations are helpful and the majority of staff check in agents here in Dubai are too. So, whilst they can deny boarding, often they don't.

In any event, whilst I think it important that all angles of the job are considered before joining, to base a decision mainly on this one aspect of staff travel may cause you to overlook the far bigger issues and concerns you may face on joining. I don't wish to put you off, but it's like you're trying to see if the headlights will work before seeing if the engine is working first.

Staff travel is not a major issue in this Airline.

[break dancer]

Having been here a while and travelled around both with kids and sans, the aircraft will never depart with any empty seats if there are standby staff waiting to get on. Skywards pax will be upgraded to make way if space available, from economy to business or from business to 1st, because as has been mentioned already, it is income for them. They won't upgrade staff, but will downgrade if needed and given the OK by you. I've found most outstation staff very good - the worst by far are in Dxb.

Good luck.

[777boyindubai]

Sorry to disagree. It has happened to me twice (with the two kids)
There are lots of great ground staff. They do try to help. But, they fear for their jobs!

[ask26]

If you have an infant, can you not buy for them a confirmed business ticket via Staff Travel then book a business standby for yourself?

[White Knight]

Never had a problem when traveling with the kids - both as F/O and now as captain... If a flight looks tight, try another day! And if Mauritius looks busy there's always Seychelles, Sri Lanka or the Maldives!

The other option as an F/O is the cheapo CAT 99 firm ticket... We used it to Oz from here for five of us. No problem... Just bl00dy cramped for these long legs:(:(

[Comanche]

BYMONEK, yes I know staff travel is only a minor aspect, but I am asking questions on ALL aspects of the job. Have already posted other threats and asked EK pilots about more important aspects. Staff travel, schools and living in an expat community are major positives for me when looking at joining. I am basically going through a GRADE process (or DODAR if you will) and continue to gather, analyse and review info. I HAVE a well paid flying job now as a skipper on shiny new A320's, but need to wonder where I want to be 5-10 years from now. EK is the only airline I can join where I can have better schooling for kids, international staff travel, without eroding my disposable income. However, I will still end up in the right hand seat for 5-7 years working for an airline in a part of the world where you have few rights and will probably end up being more tired than I am now. If the wife sitting at the pool all day and going to the malls and cinemas with other expats ends up being happier, perhaps it is worth it....

[BYMONEK]

777boyindubai

Curious to know if this occurred at the same location, ie both here in DXB or both times at the same outstation. If both were at the same airport, I wonder if someone is making life difficult for you/us on purpose.

I have literally just come off the phone after speaking to one of our airport managers (WE) who I know personally. He assured me that unless there is an embargo, is weight restricted or has been instructed from the top, there is no reason why staff should not be accepted for flight, even if their cabin is full. Ground staff have the empowerment to upgrade PAX to facilitate staff in their designated cabin and will do so on the basis of several criteria as to which passengers are upgraded. Staff are not supposed to be upgraded as there is no authority or guidance to do so.

This idea about ground staff fearing for their jobs is simply bulls**t. If they want to help, they can.

Comanche

Hopefully, if you do eventually decide to come, your wife will get a little more out of Dubai than just Malls, cinemas and sunbathing.

[Comanche]

"Hopefully, if you do eventually decide to come, your wife will get a little more out of Dubai than just Malls, cinemas and sunbathing."

Is there anything else to do in Dubai for the wives? Not being sarcastic here, but speaking to other pilots at EK it seems that is all they do, perhaps I forgot the lunches and gym? Eventually, I am sure she would like to work, but that topic perhaps belongs in another thread.

[sheikhmahandy]

White Knight

Not sorry to disagree. Also had this happen to me where there were seats in business and none in econ and my family got bumped in Singapore.......for 2 days. (I was on an ALT and they were Sby). They ended up flying Singapore Airlines home full fare!!
They will NOT upgrade full paying passengers to accommodate staff unless you know the ground staff and they have big enough kahuna's to risk their job!!!!! :mad:

I have felt more empathy from other airlines than my own when in this situation.

Welcome to EK staff travel.:mad:

To think otherwise is a misconception.:ugh:

[White Knight]

Sheikmahandy - I only state that if you choose where and when you'll have no, or little, problem!

The CAT99 is firm... Just not so easy to get these days:}

I'm sorry you had to cough up full fare! i seem to recall doing the same on my BA supposedly annual FIRM freebie and having to pay Emirates to get me back to UK some years ago. Swings and roundabouts.

I also believe the Singapore flight-crew only get economy - all of the time. Is this correct?

[harry the cod]

Mmm.......there's a pattern starting to form here. It's called Singapore. So, just as long as you stay away from there on standby, you'll be fine.

Harry

[Comanche]

Sure, it is nice to be able to plan ahead, but load factors can change quickly and unexpectedly especially when there are canceled flights due weather, strikes, weight limits etc. You can choose not to travel outbound, but once you are away I would certainly expect to be allocated ANY available seat to get me back home. I know Singapore is popular on all airlines, but so is Bangkok and lots of other places. Many times my family and young children have traveled business on BA staff travel when economy was full, no big deal and great for our comfort and to get us back home. If EK cannot accommodate its own staff and help them out once in a while, it certainly tells a story about the general attitude and I am sure few will disagree. So can you buy firm ID50 business seats for the family?

[ManaAdaSystem]

Not many airlines allow staff kids below the age of 12 in business or first. Search out the ones who do, and plan accordingly. If EK has an age limit, then that is what they have. Don't expect them to bend the rules for you.

[Doors To Manuel]

For those less experience in the wily ways off staff travel, a few pearls of wisdom which in my experience can apply generally to most airllines, including those in the Gulf -
1. Understand that 'confirmed' means you are on until you're off. 'Standby' means you are off until you're on.
2. Rules are rules, and are better broken with a smile than a yell
3. Very often an airline's staff travel rules are less kind to their own people than to others. Examples: ID90 interline rules may permit other airline staff kids travel in cabins excluded to own staff
4. The majority of airlines will not leave staff behind if there are empty seats in any cabin (BA are one of the best for this)
5. Always travel with back-up tickets for alternative on another airline. You CANNOT buy ID tickets downline from other carriers, so make sure you have that sorted before you leave.
6. Follow the hashtag #nonrev on the tweetting service if you want to keep up with the vibe on how others are faring. (Can't say tw$tt$r as it gets changed to PPrune...odd!)
7. Consider idDeals.com for checking loads on any flight in real-time (membership required)
8. If you can, travel without checked bags, and never give up until the gate is closed.
9. Be nice to your fellow employees. They have a job to do, while you are off on vacation. It pays dividends!
:ok:

[411A]

Lets face facts here.
Most airlines desire their business/first class passengers to come back and purchase more tickets, and having ankle biters messing up their premium cabins does not bode well for repeat business.

[Comanche]

Then again, nowadays there are a lot of commercial passengers paying full fare business or even first for their 'ankle biter' kids. Sure, some kids are a pain and if they were mine I'd feel very uncomfortable in business. But like my 10 year old, she is very very well behaved when flying, no bother to anyone. I'd certainly agree with some age limit, but 16 seems a bit excessive.

[Oblaaspop]

Mate, we're going over and over the same thing......

If you don't want to get bumped, put your hand in you pocket and buy a firm ticket!

Simple!!!!

Standby travel is a perk not a given..... Ask the striking BA cabin crew

As someone mentioned earlier, there are several issues and problems at EK, but Staff travel really isn't one of them! Dare I say, it's actually ok!! Move on buddy and good luck with the interview:ok:

[MrMachfivepointfive]

Just went through my diary and HR Direct.
I am not commuting, but I love to shop and hang out in some places.
I have had 112 subload tickets over the years. Here are my stats:

Offloaded: 2
Downgrades: 4
Upgrades: 17

[Comanche]

"If you don't want to get bumped, put your hand in you pocket and buy a firm ticket!"

Staff travel is indeed a perk, and makes up for some of the not so good stuff of working for a particular airline and should be treated with respect. More importantly, when I am out in the desert I will want to get out once in a while. Unfortunately, the EK pay won't be sufficient to fork out for firm tickets for the family, I would if I could. I suppose I will just get ID90's on BA if I am not traveling alone, because they will upgrade you and the family if there is no space in economy.

[Comanche]

Posted on another thread by MARI, this is confusing me!:

Answer to the question: yes, you and your immadiate family members are eligible for Business Class id tickets. A captain and his family can travel in First Class.

You can buy firm tickets but if the flights are overbooked (many times they are), the system will not allow you to order them. You can be off-lodaded with those tickets as well. (Actually, even with Annual Leave Ticket, it happened before.)

EK TRE who I recently spoke to personally told me the same as above, so why is there conflicting info on EK staff travel as far as Business Class eligibility with kids younger than 16? This is why I posted it on Pprune, to get to the bottom of this. My current salary is sufficient to afford myself commercial business class tickets for the family once a year from where we are now to the other side of the pond, so if we are likely to save money on this after joining EK, I can take this into account in my disposable income comparison when trying to decide whether or not to join EK. It's only one aspect, but it's all about painting a somewhat accurate picture and having some certainty and peace of mind leaving a stable job here in Europe for the ME.

MrMachfivepointfive: 112-17-4-2=89, so if it's not an upgrade, a downgrade or an offload, which class were you in then those 89 times?

[Fred Garvin M.P.]

Comanche,
Simply put, as an FO, you are allowed into Business class and can purchase Business class staff travel tickets (as can your wife, in laws, etc). Your children, aged under 16, are not available for any type of travel in Business class, period. If you and your wife are traveling with your children, either you or the wife must sit in economy with your kids and the other may sit in business. As an FO, your kids simply cannot travel in business under age 16.

Once you upgrade, your kids can travel in business and you and your wife can travel in first. If your kids are under 16, same rules as above apply with one of you sitting with them. So, as a captain, your kids can travel in business. If they are under 16, either you or your wife must sit with them in business, and the other can ride in first. As a CA, your kids cannot travel in first under age 16.

Hopefully that's clear. Your kids will not get business.

[Oblaaspop]

Fred you are spot on apart from 1 point....

When the kid is 12 years old, they may travel unacompanied in the lower class ie. you and the missus can sit in J (or F as a Skipper) and the kids can sit by themselves in the lower class, but as a kid of an F/O, they do need to be 16 to travel in a Premium Cabin.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Then it is a legal right, not a special privilege.

Yes it is a perk, buth then so is medical cover...

But as we know staff contracts are worth as much as toilet paper....

glf

[MrMachfivepointfive]

MrMachfivepointfive: 112-17-4-2=89, so if it's not an upgrade, a downgrade or an offload, which class were you in then those 89 times?First couple of years in J. Last couple of years in F. Having said that - all four downgrades were F -> Y.

[Humber10]

What carriers can EK staff get ID90/zed fares with?

Are there any other limitations with the EK staff travel system?

Does EK issue paper or e-tickets for staff? What about for use on other carriers?

How are tickets purchased? Payment first, or pay after the sector is flown? At my current company, we can print off tickets with our airline and the money is deducted from our accounts only after the sector/ticket is used and we only pay upfront for tickets on other airlines.

How long in advance does one have to purchase tickets? Can ones spouse do this?

How does the refund system work on unused tickets, does it take a long time to get a refund?

What other staff travel perks are available with EK? Hotel discounts and other industry concessions?

Is there any cost with the yearly annual leave tickets? If so, how much? at my current firm, we have to pay taxes on the tickets, so they're not 100% free.

[wadi_racer]

So I guess the logic is that as soon as you get command your kids are no longer possible to be brats and upset the other pax.
Only as an FO are your kids considered to be a nuisance.........that seems pretty logical to me.......NOT
Could somebody possibly explain what the difference with respect the age limit for an FO's child is and yet there is no restriction for a Captains child???????

And before I duck for cover.....this has absolutely no bearing on my travel plans as I pay full fare anyways.....but just curious.

Wadi

[harry the cod]

For Christs sake guys, what bloody difference does it make. Those are the rules, we can't change them, so just accept it! No matter how angelic your kids are, they ain't going to be in a comfy seat until you either become a Captain or they're 16......period!

Gulfstreamaviator

The only 'contractual' part of flying with EK is our ALT. Everything else is a concession. I hope your flying skills outweigh your legal ones!

Harry

[Gulfstreamaviator]

I have been over here, for many years, and before that visited many times, on short contracts. Having spent many years in aviation, and not actually killed anyone, or bent (m)any airframes.

I was trying to say that if your contract, and addendums, etc, say staff travel, and detail the conditions then that is part of your contract of employment.

If there is no reference to these "perks:, then there is no entitlement.

Perhaps an EK flyer can advise if the EK contract covers Staff Travel.

glf

[Oblaaspop]

Gulf, it's quite simple. As an F/O you DO get business class as per your contract, your kids do not.

That is quite clearly stated in the staff travel manual, and therefore by your reasoning there is NO breach of contract!

One thing to remember of course is that the company employs YOU and therefore has an agreement with YOU and not you kids........ I certainly don't remember my kids travel perks being part of my decision to come over here. I knew I had to do my time in the RHS before my kids were able to travel in J.

Whether I agreed with the policy or not is not important (for the record I think its a stupid policy!!), because it has been there since WAY before I came here. As the Cod says, just accept it.

BTW Comanche, do your kids get J class in your LCC?:hmm:

[Desertweasel]

What carriers can EK staff get ID90/zed fares with? loads though not as many as some airlines generally Y for FO


Are there any other limitations with the EK staff travel system? no unmarried partners or friends

Does EK issue paper or e-tickets for staff? What about for use on other carriers?generally paper for other airlines though zed can be bought online, all other tickets are e-tickets

How are tickets purchased? Payment first, or pay after the sector is flown? At my current company, we can print off tickets with our airline and the money is deducted from our accounts only after the sector/ticket is used and we only pay upfront for tickets on other airlines.Salary deduction the moment you order

How long in advance does one have to purchase tickets? Can ones spouse do this? can be done from home using login but since salary deduct you will always pay

How does the refund system work on unused tickets, does it take a long time to get a refund? Done through online system generally one month but depends on day you put it in, cannot refund until one month after purchase, paper tickets longer,

What other staff travel perks are available with EK? Hotel discounts and other industry concessions?Some at crew hotels and some other chains, generally not that good

Is there any cost with the yearly annual leave tickets? If so, how much? at my current firm, we have to pay taxes on the tickets, so they're not 100% free. totally free but limited to specified home town for 2 years

[Humber10]

thanks for answering my questions. :ok:

my present employers have the same deal, with kids in Y class until you upgrade.

[Comanche]

BTW Comanche, do your kids get J class in your LCC?

Funny, Opblaaspop. I avoid staff travel on my airline for anything over 3 hours. Bit spoilt, but my mrs used to work for BA and we got accustomed to staff travel WITH kids mostly in Club/Business. Now my LCC salary is high enough to afford commercial C class tickets at least once a year (the American Express BA card helps a lot with companion vouchers and miles).

The EK business entitlement for F/O's is nice, but useless if you want to travel with the family and I imagine my wife and I would end up fighting all the time who gets to go with the kids in the back. Having been a skipper for over 6 years now, it would make the wait at EK for the upgrade even harder with this discrepancy in mind as far as kid's class entitlements.

Anyway, had an email from EK last week with a choice of interview dates, but no replies to any of my emails about my preferred date and when I can expect to get a confirmation so I can plan a little ahead. Recruitment do not answer their phone EVER, so I guess this would be a taste of things to come? I got a job now, so really not that easy to 'find' 5 or 6 days off to fly to and from DXB and attend this session. Guess I will keep flying 4 sector days then for another 22 years.

[Oblaaspop]

I understand where you are coming from!

On the annual leave ticket trips (after 3 years you can go anywhere on the network firm), I used to let the missus sit in J out bound and I'd do it on the way back. At the end of the day my kids are a lot smaller than me, the IFE still has 1500 channels, and they don't mind not having a J or F class wine selection, so frankly they shouldn't mind 'slumming' it in Y class for a while!

Jeez, I was in my 30's before I had the opportunity to fly in a premium cabin. Kids these days don't know their luck if a 10 year old bemoans sitting in Y class!:=

[quinnybuzz]

Does EK Grade 9 / Fos get consessional tickets for their domentic help?

[ruserious]

QB, yes they are G8 and above, 2 Cat A (ID90 subload) and unlimited Cat C (ID50 firm) per annum unaccompanied, with one extra Cat A possible if travelling with employee

[quinnybuzz]

Thanks RUserious... this is indeed great news for me... just one more clarification... will the unlimited CAT C be for any destination where EK flies to or only to domenstic help's own home country.
Thanks again.

[three eighty]

Tickets will be to any destination on the network. The only restrictions are your ALT's being valid to your home country for the first 3 years.

[Oakape]

The other thing with ALT's is that the trip must start in Dubai & end in Dubai. OK normally, but can be a problem if you have family outside Dubai

[145qrh]

My last ALT's for my family started outside Dubai. Used them last month, no questions, processed without any hitch.

[Oakape]

That's interesting. Just had my ticket request rejected with that reason given.

And the last time I had the nerve to query staff travel regarding a ticket, the family was 'sin binned' by them & not even FJ or the fact that we had a seriously ill child could change things. They went to extraordinary lengths to ensure that the family were inconvenienced in their travel.

Man this place pi#%es me off! :ugh: