Canadians to pay up to $998 for a visa!

[777boyindubai]

Canadians to pay $998 for UAE visas - Emirates24|7 (http://www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/canadians-to-pay-998-for-uae-visas-2010-12-29-1.335354)

[411A]

Canada can do the same with UAE visitors, I expect....times two.
Or, simply withdraw landing rights for all UAE air carriers.

[Number2]

They could do the same......but I'm betting they won't.

[QatarA340]

Canada already does the same. UAE citizens have to pay to get a visa!

[Panama Jack]

Of course they could, in reciprocity.

I suspect they won't though and that is a good thing. If so, it also underscores the difference in maturity levels and pragmatism between policy makers of the two countries.

While it might seem emotionally satisfying for Canada to slap a $1000 visa fee on any UAE national visitor applicants, the fact is that Canada would be shooting itself in the foot in the same way that the UAE has just done.

Canada is not a closed country and tourism is a major industry. While travellers might seek cheap airfares and hotels and are incredibly irritated by excessive visa fees, they (and especially GCC visitors) typically spend a lot of money in a foreign country, creating much needed income and economic activity that can be felt by ordinary people. The European travel industry uses the phrase "sleep cheap, shop expensive" to describe this phenonemon.

Additionally, Canada remains an attractive place to study and tuition fees far outclipse any gains in revenue from punitively raising visa fees. Additionally, students who learn in a foreign country absorb the host country's culture and some of the country's values. Most people would agree that Canada tends to be, on a global scale, a tolerant and diplomatic society, aspects from which the UAE could gain from.

In any case, I suspect that the UAE will lose more than it gains from its change in visa policy. Some friends, a middle-class family of 4, visited the UAE on a 10-day vacation, having been attracted by the "Dubai Inc. aura." They really enjoyed their time but I suspect that the cost and hassle of the proposed visa policy would have disuaded them from visiting the country. UAE's loss, someone else's gain. I suggested, in any case, that Oman is far more cultural, scenic and interesting (with friendly locals to boot)!

[Number2]

Or why Emirates and Etihad aren't allowed to fly into CYYC or CYVR. Would it really, truthfully take that much business from Air Canada?

[Panama Jack]

Probably, yes Number2. If you do some thread searching some other contributors have argued on how it could actually lead to a net reduction on services at other Canadian cities to other destinations outside of Canada. But that is, in a way, besides the point.

In the absence of an Open Skies agreement (so we are talking about bilateral issues), Canada looks upon increased service based on demand between two countries, namely, Canada and the United Arab Emirates (not upon the UAE wanting to increase flow through its hubs to destinations beyond the UAE).

Furthermore, increase rights are normally a result of enhanced mutual benefits. In this case, the benefits are very one-sided.

So. That is why the UAE cannot get additional rights at this time. Pure and simple. Ironically, I suspect the new more restrictive visa requirements will actually drive down demand for traffic between Canada and the UAE, which as I said, is the UAE shooting itself in the foot if it hopes to increase traffic rights in the future.

I certainly hope that Canada won't cave on this issue. The process for permitting the increase in traffic rights follows a logical one. Imagine if Canada were to reverse course in response to the UAE visa restrictions. It would be a lesson to the World on how to negotiate diplomatically with Canada.

Next thing you will know, countries like Panama, El Salvador, Russia, Korea or China could embark on an uncouth game of hardball in order to try to increase flow through their hubs from Canadian airports.

Looking at the humor of it, it is funny how what should be an otherwise low-grade trade dispute has become a major international dispute.

[skidoodog]

Now I realize that the Canadian government must look after the interests of the expat community but this is getting embarasing. It will be interesting to see what the Canadian goverment reaction will be.

I can't wait for the rush of tourists waiting to fill Emirates planes after this. The Unwelcome mat is now fully rolled out.

Good luck with the pissing match. It's a long way around Canadian airspace.

Pathetic really.

[GoreTex]

go canada, dont let them in until they are a fair competitor to AC and when they treat their workforce with respect, but thats never gonna happen so dont let them in.

[Willie Everlearn]

I'm with PJ.

Canada has done all it needs to do.

Reinstating Visa requirements and hiking visa fees is merely the UAE shooting itself in the foot. Nice. :ugh:

Canada, clearly has "the hammer" if the UAE continues to behave this way over Canada's response, playing the overflight card could cost EK and EY some serious dollars. (of course, they'd still show a profit) The lack of overflight clearances would impact passenger loads and only serve to chase passengers to other carriers. After a handfull of inconvenienced flights the combined lo$$e$ to EK and EY would by far and away exceed any annual visa income to the UAE government derived by penalizing Canadian businessmen, tourists, or employees. :ok:

CANADA still has the big option card it can play.

Come to think of it, if CANADA were to cancel EK and EY services to Canada along with overflight clearances, how many of our expat Canadians would be summarily rounded up and expelled from the UAE? Now there's a thought.
:D :D :D

That would throw a spanner into the 'employee' works at Emirates and Etihad I should think.

Willie Everlearn :ok:

[Visual Procedures]

With the decrease in tourists perhaps the 777 will get Toronto back :E:ok:

[Jet II]

They could do the same......but I'm betting they won't.

They already do and have done for many years. UAE asked that their citizens be accorded the same rights as Canadians but Canada refused - hence UAE took Canada off the free visa list.

[Jet II]

Furthermore, increase rights are normally a result of enhanced mutual benefits. In this case, the benefits are very one-sided.



Well yes and no - if all you want to do is protect Air Canada then you are correct, but many State Governments are very unhappy with this policy of restricting air passenger expansion which they see as stifling economic growth in their region.


“During my recent visit to the United Arab Emirates, it was very apparent that Alberta needs to have direct international air access from key markets like the UAE in order to stay competitive in the global economy,” said Premier Ed Stelmach. “We will continue to urge the federal government to pursue more open sky agreements to help strengthen our province’s business and tourism opportunities.”

[Panama Jack]

They already do and have done for many years. UAE asked that their citizens be accorded the same rights as Canadians but Canada refused - hence UAE took Canada off the free visa list.

So by your predictions, Jet II, the citizens of the UK, the Schengen Area, Japan, Australia and USA will be next in 2011 to be removed from the visa-on-arrival list and have to pay up to $1000 USD for a visit visa to the UAE because UAE citizens require visas to visit those countries?

I too am the national of a small country which is required to hold a visitor visa to visit countries such as Canada, the USA . . . even the UAE but that does not mean we do not provide a tourist card, on arrival, for a $5 fee because we realize that a) these countries are not going to change their policy reciprocal to ours because they have their concerns, and b) we gain so much by having visitors come to our country through their spending that putting high barriers only makes us poorer in the end.

Canada, being a close neighbor of the USA, inherits many of the neighbor's security headaches. Prior to September 2001, citizens of certain GCC countries like Saudi Arabia (I don't know if it was also the case for the UAE) were allowed visa-free travel to Canada. That all changed, a contribution of bin Laden and Al Qaeda to his own fellow citizens.


Well yes and no - if all you want to do is protect Air Canada then you are correct, but many State Governments are very unhappy with this policy of restricting air passenger expansion which they see as stifling economic growth in their region.

Well yes and no. More than Air Canada is potentially affected and I don't think that Air Canada has enough clout to affect Government policy in this area. Of course the governments of foreign states are unhappy about this. Somebody will always be unhappy about something.

[GoreTex]

would be great if the UAE charges every visitor 1000 USD, that would be suicide for their tourism and they can go back riding camels, its much safer and more romantic anyway

[White Knight]

Well Panama Jack - figures from Newcastle in NE England show that EK operating there daily has increased business alone with Australia by 3x (or 300% for simple minded idiots)...

It's quite simple - EK has a greater pull than the whole of Canada... I mean, do you see Canada sponsoring the rugby or cricket? No? But half a billion people in India see the cricket 'Fly Emirates' logo on the umpire...

As much as I like Canada - it's a NOTHING next to the EK PR machine:cool: Work it out yourselves girls:ok::ok:

[Schibulsky]

figures from Newcastle in NE England show that EK operating there daily has increased business alone with Australia by 3x (or 300% for simple minded idiots)...

Care to provide the figures (link) ...or are they pulled out of the lower region of the EK PR machine??

[Willie Everlearn]

"EK has a greater pull than the whole of Canada... I mean, do you see Canada sponsoring the rugby or cricket? No? But half a billion people in India see the cricket 'Fly Emirates' logo on the umpire..."

If Indians knew how to skate they might learn to play ice hockey. If they learned to play hockey there'd be no such thing as cricket. But, the Indians simply want to remain British colonial wannabees, whereas WE Canadians don't. :ok:

Soccer, Rugby and Cricket will never fly in Canada. If the Indians wish to support a foreign airline rather than their own, it's up to them.
Come to think of it, Canadians would rather support their own airline and their own sports. Sports like ice hockey, where there is NO running out of bounds or breaks for tea.

You might also notice the logo on the umpires and team jerseys don't say "Fly Emirates to Canada".
That's not likely to change anytime soon. :E

Willie :) (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)

[flyarnk]

If AC can lobby Canadian Government in NOT allowing more flights, I don't understand why UAE has no right to slap Canadians with reciprocal visa and more......

I am a Canadian and as a consumer I want to have a choice! if AC wants to compete they should compete on product and services....I am sure they will earn more respect!

[PacWest]

I mean, do you see Canada sponsoring the rugby or cricket? No? But half a billion people in India see the cricket 'Fly Emirates' logo on the umpire...


Rugby? Cricket? -- Canada? ..:rolleyes: heh

Canadians play baseball -- you know -- pee wee leagues and -- the Blue Jays?

Canadians play Football -- you know - with downs and 1st and 4th quarters .. the Grey Cup?

Canadians watch NFL football -- you know. The Super Bowl? It's down to Texas this year ..you know -- out of Bellingham -- http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

Indians? Well, bully for them and the Mo's Emirates referee's shirt!

Liking Canada but knowing absolutely nothing about it's people, culture, history, etc. -- I mean, Monsieur White Knight, is rather boring.


btw - Little girls play soccer in Canada .. in the summer ..

[Number2]

That is definitely the best laugh I've had all year when you mentioned Canada and culture in the same sentence. It's the 51st state of the US and sadly, too many ignorant people.

Still can't stop smiling.

[FlyEmirates777]

EK just start Seattle and run a free bus up to YVR...like you did with CAI-HBE

[Jet II]

So by your predictions, Jet II, the citizens of the UK, the Schengen Area, Japan, Australia and USA will be next in 2011 to be removed from the visa-on-arrival list and have to pay up to $1000 USD for a visit visa to the UAE because UAE citizens require visas to visit those countries?

I too am the national of a small country which is required to hold a visitor visa to visit countries such as Canada, the USA . . . even the UAE but that does not mean we do not provide a tourist card, on arrival, for a $5 fee because we realize that a) these countries are not going to change their policy reciprocal to ours because they have their concerns, and b) we gain so much by having visitors come to our country through their spending that putting high barriers only makes us poorer in the end.

If countries do not want to offer citizens of the UAE the same agreements for visa travel as their own citizens enjoy then surely it is up to the UAE to decide whether the benefits outweigh the costs by continuing with the arrangement.

In the case of Canada they obviously thought not.




Of course the governments of foreign states are unhappy about this. Somebody will always be unhappy about something.

No, not foreign States - Ed Stelmach is the Premier of Alberta and thinks that the Federal Governements decision to restrict the growth in air travel simply to protect Air Canada hurts the general economy in Alberta.

And he is right.

[Trader]

Prove that 'Ed' is right!!!!!

That traffic goes in and out regardless of whether EK is there or not. It might make it easier for some but that is about it. The trade will continue with or without EK.

Local politicians love this stuff because it makes them look important, adds some votes and gives them some bragging rights about what they did while in office while trying to keep that office.

The fact that others (outside his constituancy) might not benefit is irrelevant to him. The Federal gov't has decided, that as a whole, it does not benefit Canada. I might add that the Conservatives are about as pro business as you can get.

[Togalk]

Canada is a very cold miserable country, in the winter its so cold its residents have to live in igloo's. There is NO culture, they are VERY racist, and the native indians still scalp people. If its not snowing, its raining all the time.
Being so far north, in the winter it's dark 23 hours a day.
So, please everyone steer clear. I hear Australia and New Zealand are lovely places

[Jet II]

Prove that 'Ed' is right!!!!!

That traffic goes in and out regardless of whether EK is there or not. It might make it easier for some but that is about it. The trade will continue with or without EK.


Well the experience from other parts of the world (Europe, US etc) is that expanding local airports and travel opportunities benefits the wider local economy. In much of Europe local governments pay airlines to operate to their local airport as they see it bringing wider economic benefits for all of their population.

As for trade continuing without good air travel links, well it might for a while but if a City does not have very good commuunication links nowdays they will fail to attract many Companies to move to that location - they will simply move to a location with better infrastructure.

[pool]

What country indulges in overestimating its importance because it has tripped over some fossil fuels, is geostrategically well positioned for aviation (overflight or hubbing), attracts a lot of people from the subcontinent and has very little cultural achievements to show?

Yes, both answers are correct: The UAE or Canada

Maybe that's an explanation for the mini cold war.

[clevlandHD]

Just saw the video on the other thread. Forget Canada, let's go to Sweden!!!

[Jet II]

Hmm, it appears that if you book through EK a visit visa for Canadian citizens is $75.

That compares with a UAE citizen visiting Canada who has to pay for a visit visa........$75 :E

[nolimitholdem]

What country indulges in overestimating its importance because it has tripped over some fossil fuels, is geostrategically well positioned for aviation (overflight or hubbing), attracts a lot of people from the subcontinent and has very little cultural achievements to show?

Yes, both answers are correct: The UAE or Canada

Maybe that's an explanation for the mini cold war.

LOL

Now now pool, care to share with us which bastion of cultural achievement you hail from? From your comment it obviously isn't one with much of an education system...

[Willie Everlearn]

There isn't much said over here in Canada about Air Canada lobbying the CDN gov't for help in staving off competition from EK or any other airline. If the CDN gov't can't make decisions about who can and who can't have access to our airports without considering the impact both positive and negative before making its decision, gawd help us.

I believe initially they (AC) would/should have an input when it comes to bilateral agreements with foreign airlines intentions relative to passenger/commercial traffic into and out of Canada. As would all the other CDN airlines. So, I wouldn't think or suggest there is a major 'lobbying effort' on the part of AC or any other carrier over here to block or ban EK. There isn't. I also happen to think it's quite reasonable that AC will and should keep their eye on the ball.
There wasn't much fuss when QR asked for and was granted landing rights. When you look at the Gulf Region hubs, you have to ask why one carrier from that region should have more access to Canada than others from that region?

Canadians generally haven't a clue about EKs vision of dominating the world's airline industry and most CDNs couldn't give a stuff. EK's request for additional services and new destinations within Canada was looked at and the request was turned down. Decision made. Turn the page!

The immature reaction of the UAE gov't is understandable. It's a young country that doesn't run like any democratic model out there, including Canada. By escalating this issue they are putting themselves in yet another 'face saving' position where they will have to hope Canada doesn't cancel EK and EY landing rights and/or overflights. If that happens, the UAE, EK and EY are, 'ow you say? fuct.
As a mature and responsible nation it is highly unlikely that Canada will ever take such measures against the UAE or its air traffic use of Canadian airspace. That's how a mature nation behaves.

Lot's of VFR traffic between Canada and the sub-continent. India's population alone is 1,166,079,217.
The population of Canada is 33,487,208.Making Canada an insignificant market. EK is interested in providing uplift to the sub-continent from Canada and it is completely clear why they would be.

Canada is a multicultural country with people from all over the world who have now made Canada their home. Ethnic Groups (wholly or partly): North American Origin 40%, British Origin 33%, French Origin 16%, Other European 29%, Aboriginal peoples 4%, South, East & South-East Asian 9%, Other (mostly Caribbean, Arab, African, Latin/Central/South American and West Asian) 6%. The total comes to more than 100% because many Canadians (approximately 38%) have a mixed background.

Increased visa fees for Canadians travelling to the UAE is a non-starter. The reasons behind the re-introduction of visa fees for CDNs is childish at the least and immature at best and nothing more. UAE decision made. Turn the page.

Willie Everlearn :eek:

[Panama Jack]

Jet II,

If countries do not want to offer citizens of the UAE the same agreements for visa travel as their own citizens enjoy then surely it is up to the UAE to decide whether the benefits outweigh the costs by continuing with the arrangement.


I guess we can agree on that. That is a right that every sovereign nation enjoys.

Your previous comment confused me because of your reference on "States"; I believe Canada uses the term "Provinces" to refer to their regional governments in the same way that the UAE refers to its regional segments as "Emirates"

Any any case, Trader has provided the answer I would have given to you. A difference with the elected political leaders in a country like Canada, and its provinces, and the dynastic ruling families in a country like the UAE is that in Canada, the politicians don't "tow the line" to maintain an outside image of political unity and take any and all opportunity to "one-up" themselves over their political opponents. I imagine that this is one of the perceived weaknesses of Canada on which the UAE's strategy is based.

Happy New Year

[EGGW]

Right, I will shut down this thread unless some of you moderate your posts, and the tone and language used.

You have been warned.

EGGW.

[troff]

Togalk, we have a number of ways of dealing with your type...

YouTube - Molson Canadian (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgQumnq5YTw)

Canada is a very cold miserable country, in the winter its so cold its residents have to live in igloo's. There is NO culture, they are VERY racist, and the native indians still scalp people. If its not snowing, its raining all the time.
Being so far north, in the winter it's dark 23 hours a day.
So, please everyone steer clear. I hear Australia and New Zealand are lovely places

Actually, in a number of areas, it is dark 24 hours a day- for up to three months- and it's sometimes it's -56C on the ground! Mind you, in the summer, it's 24 hour daylight and reasonable temps.

I have slept in an igloo. It was very comfortable. Unlike you I have tasted beaver.

EGGW: Moderator, can you please watch Togalk? I find his comments offensive.

Thanks,

Troff

[Togalk]

ok, obviously humor is lost on most of you. I was born and raised in Canada as were the last 4 generations of my family.
I'm sure the moderators had no problem understanding my initial post, thats why its still there.
GET A SENSE OF HUMOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

troff, I can pretty much guarantee I have tasted a lot more beaver then you ever have.

[Jet II]

Unlike you I have tasted beaver.

I taste beaver most nights........



Gets coat........... :p

[GoreTex]

Guys,
you have been married too long, most of the beavers are extinct or partially scalped since the nineties, heard there are some left in east germany (ask EGT) and the UK

[Kapitanleutnant]

Just wondering...

Does anyone think that when the Harper Gov't is gone, that there will be a renewed sense of EK routes into Canada?

K

[fatbus]

Don't think any change in Gov will have any short term effect. Foreign Affairs wont forget how childish the UAE was in this hole thing.

[ashwinrao]

YouTube - Banff Lake Louise Tourism (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scsPfmMc4zY)

YouTube - Ancient Land, 2 min TV Ad, Newfoundland and Labrador Tourism (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHNFsN7rqSY&feature=related)

[kotakota]

Hey , I have learnt one thing working here in the sandpit , childish behaviour is to be expected at all levels . Some of the schoolboy bullying I have experienced , ie:- whispers , lies , bullying , complete inablity to talk any problem out , is only confirming the ultimate outcome.
To be continued...........