Allowances vs Moving into Quarters

[Barmey]

Having read the various articles in the press on forces allowances, increase in interest rates and possible 10% house price drop in 2011, I'm now considering selling up and moving into quarters. I'd be interested to see how the 150 GBP saved from my HDT compares to married quarter costs. I certainly would be almost a grand better off each month. The loss of HTD may well just be the tipping point for me! I know :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Pontius Navigator]

Barmey, before you jump consider if there are actually any quarters available. I know someone at AIR that had to take a hiring. The hiring allowance did not cover the rent.

[Aynayda Pizaqvick]

Well if you leave it till the New Year when they get rid of/reduce HDT in the allowances shake up then I think many will find that living off camp is no longer as attractive or for some, not even economically viable. Cue large numbers of people asking for already full married quarters then the RAF will have no other option than to pay you vast sums of many to rent off camp.
And no doubt the whole exercise will end up costing more than just leaving the allowances as they are (but that will be over looked because it will be 'a different budget')!

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Ere!

Put your house in your cat's name and offer it up to estates as a hiring...then move back in!

Ta da!

[day1-week1]

It seems that HTD may be for the chop but has anyone heard anything about how safe GYH (P) or (D) is? I think that would seriously Fu£k a lot of people off who accept posts for service needs but elect to keep the family put, thereby not creating an additional housing burden.

[Lima Juliet]

Surely renting at £300 per month isn't sound economic sense with the average posting of once every 3 years?

3x £3600 rent pa = £10,800 total

Even if a 10% house drop is on the cards then unless you live in a Mansion the wasting of nearly £11k every posting doesn't add up to me if your into house ownership in the long term (9-12 years).

I'd still like to see everyone move back into Quarters though to watch those money-grabbing bar stewards in DHE squinny and squirm!

LJ :ok:

[VinRouge]

Well, I shall be procuring a room in in the massively extended Brize Norton mess once we toodle pip over from LYE.

Own my ownhome, but due to extortionate local Oxford prices cant afford to move. If they think I will be paying for a daily 80 mile round trip journey, they are deluded. Hang on, the extension of the Brize mess has plenty of room for all the additional we are going to get when we move? Oh no, think again.

I wonder what they will do once the Gateway AND the mess is full?

Form 95, here we come, especially if I am flying the next morning.

[Jayand]

They can change the expenses by as much as they like but I would never live in quarters again.:mad:

[LFFC]

Leon,

If you do your sums carefully, and include all the factors, I think you'll find that moving into quarters, at a time when house prices are falling, makes a degree of good economic sense. But it depends where you're moving from and to. Certainly, if you're about to be posted away from Brize then you might be better placed to rent out your house at Brize and get a quarter or hiring at your new duty station - especially if GYH(P) gets cut. From what I understand, you might even turn a net profit! Last time I looked, property prices in West Oxfordshire were still rising (+9.6% in the Jul/Sep 2010 quarter (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/uk_house_prices/html/38uf.stm)). I wonder why?

I think things are going to get very interesting in the New Year. Unless the cuts have been properly thought through, the overall cost to Defence could be even greater than it is now. :E

[Diablo Rouge]

The days of old moving into a Qtr that may be old, may be partly furnished with an outdated cooker, carpets and curtains and the inevitable magnolia; marched in by an old school Families Officer with an eye that any SWO, RSM would be envious of, are long gone.

DHE will happily move you some distance from your unit into a house fit for a pig and then tell you that you have had your two choices therefore they are no longer obliged to offer you a roof over your head.

It is over a decade since I last had a qtr and like many others experienced five moves in 2 years. Each and every move I left behind a pristine house and thankfully moved into its equal on each occasion. These days I hear on regular occasion stories at the bar from guys/girls living in for a short period whilst waiting for a Qtr refusing the bricks and decay that are being offered. Orange carpets never were funny, but carpets with felt tip pen across them are unacceptable. I too will never return to a Qtr which is exactly the attitude that DHE take for granted.

[dctyke]

Quote:

Ere!

Put your house in your cat's name and offer it up to estates as a hiring...then move back in!

Ta da!


How about two guys living in their own homes in the same street applying for quarters knowing there is no chance of getting one. Then both getting each others house on ERA and halfing their mortgages................. never happen? well......................

[threeputt]

dctyke

Unlike in the days of yore, putting ones inheritence for the kids into bricks and motar and then renting it off to the MOD ain't as good an option as it might have been. We tried it with our eldests flat, a while ago, apparently one has to rent "furnished to a good standard" as the days of "furnished from Barrack stores" no longer works.

3P:ok:

[BEagle]

Surely renting at £300 per month...

£300? YGBSM...:mad:

In Cartoontown, a one bedroom flat with allocated parking will cost about £500 per month to rent.

3 bedroom detached house with garage in Witney? About £1200 per month if you can find one.

[Grimweasel]

Anyone got a link to the aforementioned Media articles? I've not seen a bean on it other than the release of the DIN being delayed until 2011?

[Sloppy Link]

Not just GYH(P) but I reckon the "over 37" deal will be under threat too. Originally designed to assist servicemaen in their final years to IPP, with many now serving beyond this point, more and more take this option. Gotta be some money to be whittled away there.

There is of course the conspiracy theorists who would suggest the bean counters are watching this thread for ideas!

SL

[GlobalTravellerAT]

I've got a flat in cartoontown and it's certainly not going for £500pcm try 600 and it's going up in line with the current market to 650!!

[Diablo Rouge]

What 'over 37' deal? I have just browsed the Claims & Allowances booklet to see what I am missing with no joy.

[Climebear]

The over 37 deal is an Army thing.

They don't get anything in addition to the other 2 services. Instead they restrict the eligibility to some - mainly unaccompanied - allowances to those over 37.

[mmitch]

Ask your MP. He's an expert on housing.
mmitch.:(

[Sloppy Link]

Ooops, sorry all, didn't realise the over 37 bit was for us Army types only. In short, if you are over 37 and own your own house, you can elect to go unaccompanied. No accommodation charges and GYH(P). Obviously, if you are receiving CEA it is a no go. It was introduced working on the theory that most soldiers left at their IPP/22 year point or, on average 40 years old. By allowing the package from age 37, it encouraged those in their last three years to move out of MSQ into their own house in a location they wanted without too a financial hit. What they wanted to avoid was discharged servicemen living as an irregular occupant in a MSQ and eventually having to evict them......not good PR. Been in for at least 15 years to my knowledge.

JSP 752 Ch 7 Sect 8 refers

SL

[Barmey]

Right,

The plan is I'm changing my name to Tigger and I'm going to rent my mate Spot's 3 bed detached with garage in Cartoontown. He in turn will rent my place. Funny old thing, it turn's out I'm not the only one to have thought of this. My Boss, Wg Cdr Daisy is renting a nice 5 bed from Gp Capt Flopsy! :ok:

Barmey

[Al R]

HM Revenue & Customs: Rent a room scheme (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/individuals/tmarent-a-room-scheme.shtml)

Sorted. :ok:

[Lima Juliet]

BEagle

Let me explain (I'm sure you know anyway)

This post is about "moving into quarters" and depending on your rank/furnishings/garage requirements then the rent of an average officer quarter is about £300.

Nothing to do with Cartertown or Witney...

LJ:ok:

[BEagle]

No, I didn't know what you meant.

So, are you saying that the rent of the 'average' OMQ is a mere £300 p.c.m.?

If there are insufficient military MQs at a particular location, who pays the difference between this £300 and the going rate for similar housing at that location?

[Sloppy Link]

There is a sliding scale of rent allowances relevant to rank and I think London has an extra allowance. You should be offered three properties and you select one. Any surplus between your allowance and reality is picked up by the tenant. You still get HTD (public rate?). Be warned, those that get very comfy in their hiring, should a MOQ become available, you could find yourself moved back in.

[Lima Juliet]

BEagle

Apologies for not being clearer in the original post - too many ales!

On this Question:

If there are insufficient military MQs at a particular location, who pays the difference between this £300 and the going rate for similar housing at that location?

That'll be the taxpayer then - d'oh! :ugh: Another "own goal" of Mr Osborne then...

LJ :ok:

[Nomorefreetime]

In reply to Beagle.

My last AMQ was a private hiring, due to no MQ's available at my adopted unit. I had a nice 3 bed (plus 2 large studies). I only paid grade 1 accom which with the garage was about £300. There was a ceiling to the monthly rent, however this place was sourced by an agent appointed by the MQ people within budget. The only bummer was the extra cost to heat it.

[BEagle]

Thanks, Leon!

So, let's say a Flt Lt with 2 years in the rank is on middle rate flying pay. That means he'll be paid about £49K before tax.

If he and his family are in furnished accommodation, let's say Officer IV Grade 2 (whatever that is), he'll pay about £353 per month? Even for a property which has a market rental rate of £1200 pcm due to location?

Then the £(1200-353) = £847 per month is paid for by the taxpayer?

So it might seem like a good idea to rent - rather than pay a £250000+ mortgage.....

....until retirement or redundancy comes knocking, that is.

[Aynayda Pizaqvick]

And lets not forget the Officer/Sgt/Airmen who wants to live in the mess but due to the lack of rooms available on camp, shares a rented house of their choice off camp (normally with one other serviceman) and even gets paid a little extra for the 'hassle'.
I know singlies that have sold up or stopped renting so they could 'move back to the mess' knowing that there is insufficient space, they can then move into a decent house in an area of their choice and the MoD will foot the bill.
Closing/consolidating bases is one thing but there needs to be suitable investment in infrastructure - on the camp where I have spent the last 5 years there has been NONE!

[VinRouge]

So it might seem like a good idea to rent - rather than pay a £250000+ mortgage.....

....until retirement or redundancy comes knocking, that is.

Or, rent out your home that is 40 miles away from camp at 1300 per month, move back into quarters or ssfa, at 300 pound a month, and watch whilst the bean counters realize they have scored an own goal by axe-ing home to duty.

[LFFC]

Actually, the costs of SFA are freely available and published every year by the AFPRB. The latest can be found here (http://www.ome.uk.com/Document/Default.aspx?DocumentUid=E7B63F50-BCC2-4FA7-A553-326BB1B30945). You can see that they are quite a bit more than Beagle suggests, but less than you'd pay on the open market in some areas - that's something that the AFPRB are working on.

However, I suspect that the large number of personnel who choose to commute weekly at the moment may think otherwise if GYH(P) is hit or Mess charges increased. Withdrawing GYH(P) may therefore result in a disproportionate increase in SFA cost for the MOD - hence the overall cost to Defence would probably increase. But knowing the way the bean-counters seem to work these days, they probably haven't thought it through. I guess we'll see in the New Year.

[BEagle]

...let's say Officer IV Grade 2 (whatever that is), he'll pay about £353 per month?...

The table states £4227 for an Officer IV Grade 2; £4227/12 = £352.25....

You can see that they are quite a bit more than BEagle suggests...

:confused:

[Barmey]

Exactly my point! The idea of moving to MQ, although not too desirable would make economic sense, plus strike a very small but somewhat pleasing blow to the bean counters!

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Firmly of the opinion that anyone who bases their individual housing decisions on something as nebulous as HTD should not be allowed to have a mortgage and should be forced to live in MQ's under financial supervision, feckin drama queens :=

[Melchett01]

Firmly of the opinion that anyone who bases their individual housing decisions on something as nebulous as HTD should not be allowed to have a mortgage

I might not go quite that far, but you are correct in stating that people shouldn't base their financial decisions on allowances. However, based on your theory, would you go as far as to say that those receiving flying pay shouldn't include that in their financial calculations?

I suspect that financial advisers and the like would say one thing. However, as far as MOD is concerned, it all adds up as part of the renumeration package.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Not received flying pay for a good few years now however have received HTD here in Wilts since 97.

After a daily 28 mile round trip I get the princely sum of **** all each month, hence my assertion that any chimp who worries about HTD in his/hers overall annual financial plan should be forced to live in quarters :ok:

[Talk Reaction]

Merry Christmas everyone,
I can't quote fact, but last year I was faced with a short notice posting to the Oxfordshire area and there were no quarters available. Cue much teeth sucking by DHE who said it would take a while as all SSFA (?) applications were vetted individually because it was costing them TOO MUCH...
So they suggested to me that they were taking a financial hit for gambling on how many quarters would be needed, and the cynic would suggest that the long 'vetting' procedure may have been cunningly planned to be long enough for a SFA to come available??
None the less, we have talked about people electing to move back into quarters but the military isn't exempt the difficulties getting onto the market, so as well as people moving back there will be a huge number of people taking MQs as their first step compared to recent years...
I hope DHE/DE pay the price, I'm fed up of being a cash cow for a private company with no tenants rights!!!