View Full Version : EK Slip N Slide!
EK 029 which was diverted to BHX.
Wonder if the Pilot will get a lotta stick from our Managers for this incident!
BBC News - Emirates jet stuck in grass at Birmingham Airport (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-12051512)
Mr Good Cat
22nd Dec 2010, 07:19
Obviously too early to establish the facts yet, but I hope EK don't rush to apportion blame before assessing all the evidence. Especially bearing in mind the press are reporting that the crew took the turn too late... According to expert passengers anyway.
The thing is that snow covered taxiways and taxiway edges are very difficult to identify when using the gear cameras. The quality isn't quite high enough definition, and it is even apparent in bright sunlight when the taxiway Tarmac and the non-load-bearing part of the apron are similar colours and textures. It's difficult to identify both the centreline and the edge markings. Quite often the cleared snow is dumped across the edge lighting which then becomes buried and useless.
I really hope the Company take a common-sense approach to this incident if this is indeed what has happened. It's extremely unusual circumstances for crews who are mostly inexperienced in these sort of conditions. The extremely tight taxiways at UK regional airports don't help either, especially on such a long bird as the 300ER.
Fox3snapshot
22nd Dec 2010, 13:58
Quote from one of the witnesses...classic!
One man told the broadcaster: "The plane was taxiing to the gate and the pilot appeared to cut the right hand turn a little too close and his main, right landing gear was off the tarmac in the mud, sinking.
"I looked out and it was about 8in (20cm) [deep]. They did appear to try to rock it loose."
I wonder what the 'rocking it loose' procedure is in the B777 checklist!?? Perhaps get all the pax on one wing and jump up and down!
:p
White Knight
22nd Dec 2010, 14:03
I wonder what the 'rocking it loose' procedure is in the B777 checklist!??
Looking at the vid on the BEEB website I would say that adding thrust and reducing it may equate to 'rocking it loose'; however, as you state, I doubt it's in the checklist!
Seriously though - let's hope our esteemed leaders act with common sense here and don't screw these fellahs over:suspect:
Fox3snapshot
22nd Dec 2010, 14:18
Agreed Whitey, has been mongrel weather for the gang operating out there over the past week.
Hats off..... :sad:
Marooned
22nd Dec 2010, 16:03
Let's hope that TCAS see's the human side (and remembers what support is and not what control does). Let us also hope that Clarke wasn't looking out of his window and wants to make another point or media score.
777boyindubai
22nd Dec 2010, 16:34
Poor guys. I too hope that common sense prevails here.
puts it back into context that the 300ER is a BIG aeroplane , and because they are now a regular visitor to some not so big airfields perhaps it gets forgotten when asking crews to take some non normal routing to get them to a stand[several?] that they werent expecting . As in GLA before one would assume you wouldnt be asked to do something there isnt space to do ?? how hard would it be in this day and age to put the info through a computer programme and show what can and cant be done on each intersection etc and highlight for the type. probably cost a lot lest than the cost of one of these incidents. By the way i dont know the cause of this incident so am only commenting based on rumours.
White Knight
22nd Dec 2010, 18:37
bvcu - for your info EK operate the 777-300ER operates into BHX TWICE EVERY day anyway, so it's not like it's 'new'.....
Just cr@p conditions.... Heck - Virgin had a 346 slide off their very familiar runway at LHR a few winters back:\
flying lid
22nd Dec 2010, 19:31
Off with the captains b*lls.
An eye for an eye, an undercarriage for an undercarriage, 'tis Allah's will !!
Lid
ManaAdaSystem
22nd Dec 2010, 20:12
It's extremely unusual circumstances for crews who are mostly inexperienced in these sort of conditions.
Really? Winter ops should be familiar territory for an airline with worldwide ops. It's a taxi incident, that's all. Well, being a ME carrier, there is no way to know how EK will react.
Mr Good Cat
22nd Dec 2010, 20:40
Quote:
It's extremely unusual circumstances for crews who are mostly inexperienced in these sort of conditions.
Really? Winter ops should be familiar territory for an airline with worldwide ops. It's a taxi incident, that's all. Well, being a ME carrier, there is no way to know how EK will react.
Yes, really.
EK may operate to all corners of the globe, but it's quite feasible that a pilot on the 777 who does 4-5 trips a month may not see true winter ops at all during his EK career... Especially bearing in mind that of the 90 or so destinations only maybe 10 are potential winter ops conditions and then only likely to be so on the odd occasion during the year.
Would be interesting to get some replies on this thread to estimate just how many people have taxied on snow covered taxiways during their time with EK.
What's your advice and technique for taxiing on very narrow, snow covered taxiways where the centreline and/or edge markings are not discernible? If you don't mind sharing.
Murrenfan
22nd Dec 2010, 22:15
He's not gonna share anything since his posts are full of arrogance. Pretty sure he doesn't have many friends.
Mfan
ManaAdaSystem
22nd Dec 2010, 22:41
What's your advice and technique for taxiing on very narrow, snow covered taxiways where the centreline and/or edge markings are not discernible? If you don't mind sharing.
Slowly, and ON the taxiway. If I can't see anything, I stop and ask for assistanse. Pretty basic.
Most western EK (OK, not Gods gift to aviation from down under) expat crew must have seen snow before. You operate the 777 to Europe and the US, so winter should be something to expect.
Don't tell me you send guys into winter conditions without sound knowledge about HOT, BA, Type 1,2,4, engine runups and so on?
trimotor
23rd Dec 2010, 04:33
Doesn't seem to be much 'Slip N Slide' about it, looking at the wheel tracks in the photos.
Looks like it might be at the very tight turn from TWY E towards the usual gate - greater than 90°, and easy to be unsighted in the opposite seat. Viz in the photos looks OK. 20/20 hind sight says taking/requesting the longer route to the gate might have been a better option.
One point of note: the majority of FO's I have flown with on the 777 in recent years (many of whom are now or will soon be captains) demonstrated ignorance of the correct cues when taxiing and turning through 90° or more, with the potential end result exactly as seen here.
Standby for taxi practice at the next PPC.
TM
crewmeal
23rd Dec 2010, 06:17
Have a look at some pics in the photo news section of the BHX b log spot and judge for yourself.
Welcome to Birmingham International Airport's No.1 Enthusiast Web Site. Last Updated: 21/12/10 (http://flyintobhx.co.uk/index2.html)
sheikmyarse
23rd Dec 2010, 07:19
No protection.
No cross examination.
One day you are there, the next you are screwed at the discretion of habibi.
Emirates = a life of terror
Both back on line.:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:
777boyindubai
23rd Dec 2010, 15:22
Heard the same QCM. A sensible move on behalf of EK. For once :D
fatbus
24th Dec 2010, 11:40
I think you need to check your sources unless RR and additional sim means back on line
trimotor
24th Dec 2010, 12:03
QNH1013: touch a nerve did it? Are you aware of the guidance on the topic?
Incidentally, I didn't say the F/O's were ignorant, just that many are 'ignorant of' (either unaware, or ignoring) the Boeing suggestions for correct best taxi techniques.
Glad to see cool heads have apparenltly prevailed.
TM
crewmeal
24th Dec 2010, 15:16
To be honest BHX has to take some responsibility for this one.
Originally slated for stand 54C, BHX changed it to 41C because their own EK service hadn't left yet (predicted by anyone capable of comparing ETA and ETD times). Then, after realising that 41C was still occupied by a TOM 757 they swapped it to 55C - but didn't notify EK29 until after they had passed the turn for 55C. EK29 went off-road while attempting a u-turn to get back to 55C.
Is it any wonder there were problems. I bet a heron or a dove would have had problems turning never mind a B777.
Said it before and I'll say it again get the infrastructure sorted and stop spending on upgrades to the shops.
fatbus.....RR+additional sim is a company procedure...why doing a sim so quickly after the incident if you're fired?
Then a flight number or AD on the roster means not fired and back to work:D...I wish them all the best,quick psychological recovery and Happy 2011!