Unpleasant Experience on QR

[Chonchord]

Does anyone here have Qatar Airways CEO office's phone number? Better yet, AAB's mobile, but his admin assistant's office number will do too.
If you have it, please send it to me by private msg.
Thanks.

[Chonchord]

I recently had my first unpleasant experience in more than 30 years of flying where I had to give the cabin crew a dressing down which I didn't feel good about but I felt I had no choice. At Doha's IA my family of 3 and I got to the AC only to find that with 2 children and first row seating past FC, we're the last to board (other pax swarmed off the bus). No announcement to have families board first. As we travelled all the way from the rear door to the front, we notice other passengers often had 2-3 pieces of carry-on and large pieces too. By the time we go to our seats, with only 1 piece for each of us there was no room left overhead.
The crew wanted to move our luggage to the hold which I refused. To begin with, as Privilege members with several flights per year, we had a total of 160KG allowance but only 75 KG in the hold, we had 4 small pieces in the cabin that HAD to remain there. With a diabetic son, one contained his supplies and as we were flying to a cold weather destination, the other had our jackets and stuff which we needed before getting off, and cameras/electronics in another. I told them of all pax with so many things, why should it be US to have their carryons removed when we had done everything right but it was the QR processes that had broken down right from the start. They hadn't checked to stop pax with extra luggage as they boarded, they hadn't called the elderly and people with children first, and many of the bins were packed with their own replenishment stuff. I kept the AC grounded until they found space for two of them, kept one piece by the flight deck and in return I agreed to have one piece sent to the hold. Taxiing a half hour late, we ended up number 2 for take-off but had to hold there for another 45 minutes or so due to the airshow in honour of Qatar National Day. We took off 1.5 hours late because some idiot(s) somewhere didn't prioritise families with children, and some others didn't check all passengers for excess carry-on leaving the last ones to board to be penalised. Needless to say I was and still am so pissed off that I'll be going to their HQ & Technical bldg in person upon my return to file a complaint.
While I don't want (and hope that won't be the case) to get the CC in trouble, and they [supposedly] tried to help once I stood my ground, but it was NOT a "5-star" performance and NOT a pleasant start for our xmas holidays. My wife was saying we should rush to board the bus too, I said the AC won't leave without us, we're here, no need to be uncivilised. She said but the overheads will be full, but I didn't want to believe that from QR.
The CS was 1 more word from my advising her to check her tone and remove herself as she tried to "intimidate" us into accepting their "solution." She realised it herself and moved away, letting a ground crew handle it which was the solution I accepted.
So, my question is, do you think I'm being too hard on them? Don't you think their processes were flawed/broken down and that it has to be addressed? I, for one, do not want to encounter that again.

[Bealzebub]

my family of 3 and I......we're the last to board
The crew wanted to move our luggage to the hold which I refused.
we had a total of 160KG allowance but only 75 KG in the hold, we had 4 small pieces in the cabin that HAD to remain there
I kept the AC grounded until they found space for two of them, kept one piece by the flight deck and in return I agreed to have one piece sent to the hold.
Taxiing a half hour late...We took off 1.5 hours late because some idiot(s)
My wife was saying we should rush to board the bus too, I said the AC won't leave without us, we're here, no need to be uncivilised. She said but the overheads will be full, but I didn't want to believe that from QR.
The CS was 1 more word from my advising her to check her tone and remove herself
So, my question is, do you think I'm being too hard on them?

Yes, I think you should write them a letter of thanks! Actually I think you should get your wife to do it, as she sounds like an eminently sensible lady whose advice you should listen to more.

I think it was absolutely essential that you had your sons medication in the cabin and accessible to you throughout the flight, and I doubt this would have been a problem at any level. However you were last to board and the hat bins were full (for whatever reason!) As passengers, we have all been there, and unless space can be found the crew would have to stow the baggage in the hold. All excess baggage has to be stored in the hold and whilst I take your point about individuals with large amounts, once the bins are full, they are full.

You could have stowed baggage under the seat in front of you (if that was an option) however the crew are entirely correct in ensuring that it is properly stowed, and if that means the hold, then the hold it is.

From what you have said it sounds to me as if the crew were attempting to help despite your intransigence, and were being a lot more patient than I would have been, given the delays you state you were causing. Perhaps if the plane had departed on time, you would have missed the subsequent delays at the holding point and everybody would have arrived at the destination on time.

I can't see what the cabin crew have done that would justify them "getting into trouble," so complain away!

[TopBunk]

we had a total of 160KG allowance but only 75 KG in the hold

Do I understand that you were therefore trying to take 85kg into the cabin?

we had 4 small pieces in the cabin that HAD to remain there

Does this mean that you had only 4 pieces weighing 85 kg that you needed in the cabin, or that 4 pieces were required and that you had more than 4 pieces in total? If only 4 pieces and they weighed 85kg, then they were certainly not small, unless they were gold bullion.

Somehow, I feel we are only getting part of the story here.

[Capetonian]

You sound like the sort of person cabin crews, in fact anyone in a service industry, dread. It's hard to say anything without getting personal, but I think you should consider yourself and your actions as others might see them.

[TopBunk]

My apologies, I may have mis-interpreted your post.

You say that you had an allowance of 160kg rather than that you had used all of it.

What you should do is to learn from the experiencce, and not transfer the blame for your failings (to follow your wife's advice, for example) onto the shoulders of others.

Put yourself in the place of the cabin crew, and this applies not just at QR. They faced with a finite amount of space - if it is full it is full. They may be able to make more efficient use of the space, but they cannot generate more. Yes, frequently the checkin/gate staff, rather than make a scene, let people past with too much, and end up transferring the problem on full flights to the cabin crew. What do you expect them to do? They have to resolve the problem. You have to play the game, not the person. You want 10 more minutes in the bar/shopping, then fine, but accept the attendant risks. Off pier bus-ing stands are a pain for everyone, and it is not as easy to cater for pre-boarding groups (albeit you apparently to ignore common sense anyway).

I think on balance, you need to write this one off to experience, and accept your own part in the outcome, rather than seek to blame anyone else.

[PAXboy]

Perhaps the way to start is to enquire of the carrier, why so many pax are allowed on with multiple bags? Perhaps next time you travel with them - take a few (discreet) photos with your phone for evidence. However, it is a global problem that will NEVER be fixed. Pax are ALWAYS going to take on more bags than they are permitted. It is only the chumps (like me) that take the regulation amount.

[Juan Tugoh]

With the greatest of respect, and i mean that so try to take this as a constructive post.

The situation you faced was poor, BUT, your behaviour was also problematic. Pilots have a process called NUTA - Notice a problem, Understand what difficulty it may cause you and, Think Ahead - ways to avoid the problem. Sounds like your wife did this and you overrode her sensible suggestion. It is far less stressful sitting comfortably watching someone else have a problem than to experience it yourself.

As others have suggested this is one to write off to experience and avoid similar problems in the future. Your problems could be a lot worse and more expensive once you have been off-loaded. I don't think many captains would have been so tolerant of one passenger delaying his flight. He is responsible for ALL his pax and a fight one vs the rest is one you will always lose. Chalk it up to experience and move on.

[Hotel Tango]

Give the O/P a break folks. The main point of the story is that (as is so often the case) many pax brought more than their permitted allowance into the cabin and the gate personnel did nothing about it. It is not a crime to board last if you have allocated seats and in theory you should still have room for your cabin baggage.

OK, that's the theory - the reality is something else. My advice to you Chonchord, regardless of carrier, is never board a full (or nearly full) flight last.

[Chuchinchow]

Could the CEO of Qatar Airways give us Choncord's full identity details?

The rest of us could then take steps to avoid any contact with him, under any circumstances. Mrs Choncord surely deserves a gold medal.

[Chonchord]

PaxBoy & Hotel Tango got it right.
As I said the entire processes had broken down from the get-go due to incompetence. Parents with children weren't boarded first; passengers weren't checked for excess luggage (and we saw many with 2-3 large pieces), putting the onus on the passengers at the back of the queue, etc. etc.
As for whether we had 85KG carry-on, NO, we perhaps had about 20. Medical supplies and coats and hats don't weigh 85 KG. What I meant was that unlike most other passengers who had so much luggage that they saw the need to bring their excess into the cabin to avoid paying charges, we had way less than our alloted amount.
I was thinking of the crew (which is indeed why I wrote this) as I'm intimiately familiar with QR's heavy hand with them. We weren't shopping or at the bar. We were at gate in fact. It was just that as it was announced, people swarmed all around the bus and it looked like a cattle drive. I wasn't going to get involved in a pushing and shoving situation to board the bus.
As for experience, yes, I'll chalk it up to that and will not board their busses from the back door as they pushed us in there like Shanghai metros. But I still plan to go to HQ and have a chat. The way I see it, we're recruited/asked to come to Qatar (and other GCC) to modernise their processes. If I don't say anything, nothing will change. I did the same with Q-Tel and went to see their district manager without involving names of personnel, and I did the same with a certain security entity in Doha.

[Chonchord]

To make sure, let me emphasise, I've always enjoyed flying with QR in the past. In November we flew to Athens and it was a wonderful flight. In September we went to Denmark and in August to Germany, very good flights. In May back to the US where the flights while long, were wonderful. It seems to me so far, unscientifically, the shorter the distance, the "rougher" the ride. Possibly due to less experienced crew working shorter routes.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Many trips on QA, inc the DOH-DXB shuttle.

Most times the passengers are still standing at pushback and even taxi, the overhead lockers are full, but thepax still try to overfill.

Cabin crew are powerless to prevent.

On arrival no better, as the reversers are stowed, the pax are already up and attacking the lockers.

Cabin crew are powerless to prevent.

Untill CC are empowered to actually consder the safety aspects of the service, then the "local population" consider their, thier family, and the poputon in general, then there will never be compliance.

glf

[ThreadBaron]

Most times the passengers are still standing at pushback and even taxi,

Cabin crew are powerless to prevent.

"Powerless"? If the cabin is insecure CC should report it as such to the flight deck.

Until now, I have always been a fan of 'Flight of the Conchords'! My heart goes out to Mrs C.

[Farrell]

You could write to them, but let me save you the hassle.

"Dear Mr. Chonchord

Thank you for your letter to our CEO dated December 2010 where you complained about our lack of service on your flight.

Qatar Airways always endeavors to ensure the highest level of quality possible for our Privilege customers and we regret that on this day that we did not meet your expectations.

Yours Sincerely

Pravindar Singh
Customer Service Supervisor Unit Section Middle East"


Because that is all you will get after about four weeks.

[Chonchord]

Farrel: Precisely! Which is why I don't write; I go in person. Particularly when dealing with/in the Middle East. It's a whole different ball game.
Gulfstreamaviator is right. Those who aren't familiar with how things work in GCC can't fathom how CC are powerless in many circumstances to do anything. Do you remember the Alitalia flight from Rome to London that was delayed (if I recall) for 5 hours and at the end some of the Qatari passengers were removed? That sort of thing is unheard of here. This was a very different situation as we're dealing with a Type 1 diabetic 5-year old, etc. which I've already mentioned. I had done everything right from booking online a month in advance and paying and checking-in online, to prescribed luggage and carry-on, etc. I had chosen QR and paid a pretty sum due to my past experience with them and their professing to be "The World's 5-Star Airline." Their processes on the other hand, was in a state of complete melt-down on that day. And as Gulfstream mentioned many people are powerless to deal with it. On the flight from Denmark I mentioned above, we paid $1200 for excess cargo baggage alone but didn't bring it into the cabin. I expect that other pax do the same. When logic is on my side and I'm right, I'm not going to let it go. Unfortunately, logic is often in short supply in this neck of the woods, hmmm, sands.

[Andy_S]

At Doha's IA my family of 3 and I got to the AC only to find that with 2 children and first row seating past FC, we're the last to board (other pax swarmed off the bus). No announcement to have families board first.

Have you actually thought through the logistics of trying to seperate special needs passengers while on a crowded bus?

[Chuchinchow]

I cannot get over Choncord's sense of entitlement. After all, he (and his unfortunate and long-suffering family) were merely ordinary, EY passengers, judging by his initial rant.

Perhaps he could do two things:

* Address his complaints to the airline. All his huffing and puffing here is only fuelling the sense of ridicule many of us feel towards him.

* Buy four seats on the other side of the curtain dividing first class from the cattle car that he so obviously despises.

[Bealzebub]

You posted (according to you) in order to ask a question. You then stated that the only two replies that were even mildly sympathetic with your cause, "got it right!" This rather suggests either your question was rhetorical, or you are meerly seeking reinforcement for your sense of loss.

If you want to complain, then go and do it. This pretence that you care in someway for the corporate welfare of the crew is nonsense. In any event that isn't your concern.

If you want to visit the companies HQ and get the CEO to meet with you in the boardroom, then do it. Maybe he will meet you? Maybe he will satisfy all your complaints? Maybe he will present you with a bill for the 90 minute delay you claim to have been the instigator of? Maybe special arrangements will be put in place to ensure never again is there lack of locker space for the last people to board an aircraft? Maybe space can be found in or near the flight deck for your hand baggage on flights everywhere (except mine!) Maybe the matter could be brought up at the ICAO, so that this outrage never again happens to any family or indeed anybody. Maybe the cabin crew will be put to death for their unacceptable failure to place your preciousness above the fact that others rushed to get on board and utilize the limited bin space. Maybe he will thank you for "grounding the aircraft" after all, it is the only language these crew understand?

I genuinely hope you will enjoy your Christmas and New year (if you celebrate such things) and I hope you will come back in the new year to tell us how you got on.

[Joao da Silva]

I cannot get over Choncord's sense of entitlement. After all, he (and his unfortunate and long-suffering family) were merely ordinary, EY passengers, judging by his initial rant.
He may be an ordinary passenger on Etihad, but he was writing about Qatar Airways in this post.

[cavortingcheetah]

Does any airline bus selected priority economy passengers from gate to aircraft? At Doha, if you want the BMW treatment, economy tickets just won't do. As Privilege Club members one would expect a certain familiarity with the usual rough and tumble of an Arabian aircraft peasant class boarding operation. Possibly a trifle over stressed travelling with children who are diabetic and thus require medication and for whom warm clothing in cold climes is extra important. Qatar Airways hostesses can be dreadful little princesses from time to time. If they are ex patriates, just read the Cabin Crew forum and see what they have to contend with. Next time perhaps leave wife and children to wander on board at their leisure while you push on ahead wearing padded jacket to emphasis size as necessary while manfully humming 'Hava Nagila', which tune may be Googled.

[PAXboy]

Just for the record, I wasn't 'mildly sympathetic' with the OP. I simply left others to tell him what he sounded like when arriving in this 'cabin' to tell about his arrival in another cabin. I was being polite, although I'm not sure that I should have been.

Bussing is horrible, you don't know which side the doors will open and whether you will be first or last. It's life as an airline pax. What the OP described happens 10,000 times a day around the globe in all countries. Not to mention that C and F pax can have VERY sharp elbows too. :hmm:

[Nubboy]

I have a great deal of sympathy for the OP, perhaps more than most contributors to the thread. It appears that the ground staff fell way short of differentiatiting between the needs of the various passenger groups. Anyone who has ever travelled with a dependant passenger, child or older person needing assistance, should empathise with the plight he found himself in. Perhaps a certain amount of naivety (sp?) in not listening to his other half and attempting to get on board with the first wave of incoming SLF.
Without wishing to sound too patronising, perhaps he should look at the culture of the carrier he is travelling with. My own airline has changed market from purely shorthaul around UK and western europe to include middle eastern and other destinations. We regularly see passengers completely flouting the carry on baggage rules. Cabin crew are the last line of defence. Being a western airline we have no problems with our female cabin crew being assertive, mainly towards the ground staff, to ensure cabin baggage is appropiate. For my flights this tends to be an ongoing process, throughout the boarding procedure, rather than just relieving the last to board of their carry on items. Despite reminding the ground duty manager of this, inevitably blind eyes are turned and multiple bags arrive at the aircraft door. On a recent flight I had the senior cabin crew member turning apopalectic with frustration as ground staff boarded 2 elderley passengers who needed wheelchair assistance last, on a completely full flight. They were seated toward the rear of a very full cabin, with people struggling to stowe their gear. This was a thoroughly unpleasant and totally unneccessry experience for them.
From the crew's point of view, by the time you're at the aircraft doors, our options are very limited indeed. Perhaps our only way of combatting this is to ensure any delay to the pushbask is apportioned to where it rightly belongs, ground handling and check in.

[Chuchinchow]

Quote:
I cannot get over Choncord's sense of entitlement. After all, he (and his unfortunate and long-suffering family) were merely ordinary, EY passengers, judging by his initial rant.

He may be an ordinary passenger on Etihad, but he was writing about Qatar Airways in this post.

Oh JdS, you are so sharp with your responses. Take care that you do not cut yourself.

You knew as well as I did that "EY", in this context, meant e c o n o m y

[Joao da Silva]

No I did not, EY is not a term much used on here, in the context of travel classes.

Y is the usual expression for economy, derived from the YEARLY fare class, EY is the IATA code for Etihad.

[Joao da Silva]

Nubboy

I second your thoughts, having done my expat spell working in 'Knoteetingham' some years ago (not in the airline business, but I took quite a lot of flights and saw what happened - wasta rules.)

The FA's (and ground staff) on most middle eastern airlines can get into serious trouble for upsetting passengers, thus the reluctance to intervene.

I am sure that Choncord will be older and wiser, next time.

For those who talk about the difficulties of bussing, easyJet (in one airport) segregate those people who pay a priority boarding fee, by the simple expedient of a belt type divider on the bus, which then draws up to the aircraft and disgorges them first, through the front door, with the rest being discharged through the rear door, at the suitable time. It seems to work pretty well, from my observation and I often wonder why it is not used more widely, being simple and efficient.

[pwalhx]

As a frequent flyer, as you would assume the OP is as well as he has FF, then you are well aware if being bussed then it is a scrum to get on the plane. Therefore you also know if you want to get on early you dont stand in the middle of the bus you find yourself a place near the door (admittedly a lot easier as an indivual). As for the comment about not knowing what side the doors open, in my experience it is rarely anything but the right hand side as you face forward.
Much as we may all dislike it this is a fact of life around the world and I wish him luck in his personal complaint, I doubt it will change things.

[Wannabe Flyer]

Me thinks Choncord is p%$ed that he did not get an upgrade............. That seems to be the latent issue here. Privilege and all, he should have been upgraded once the rant started.

It also seems he has a lot of spare time to visit offices to complain.

I second an earlier post where he is the "dreaded" person who just cannot take responsibility for his actions. Seems to have a bit of a stiff upper lip

Remember the 2 rules buddy

1) Your wife is always correct.
2) If she is not then refer to rule # 1

;)

[L'aviateur]

Sounds like you got a victory, not sure why your complaining. If i'd have been in the same situation, I've had probably done the same thing, screw the rest of the pax. Is it rude and selfish? Yes, Do you care? No.
End of story!