Emirates is running an illegal operation

[new tomcat]

I just spent a few days in the sand visiting some ex-collegues that made the leap and joined Emirates. I onlyy stayed less than a week but I caught wind of some of what is going on and it does not look pretty or legal.
Some observations;
The Factoring. How on earth does any aviation authority think that crap is legal? Bunk time does not count towards your monthly or yearly limit! I know how Emirates got that approved but how do the English, Aussie's and of course the FAA turn a blind eye to that concept?
Everyone who spends anytime in the sand realizes that the GCAA is run by and takes direction from Emirates. The FAA and everyone else will have blood on their hands when a crash happens because of this stupid order.
The Duty Limits. My friends were telling me that they have to be on the airplane by the time their duty time starts. All of the their pre-flight paperwork and briefings are done without being credited for their duty.
Then what is worse when they set the brakes after a trip is over they are off duty! The engines are still running, passengers are on board, and no checklists have been completed but you are off duty. Again how does the GCAA think this is legal.
Emirates can run their long, two pilot turnarounds in the middle of the night and that is why they do what they do but how good is it going to look when the crash happens? They are pushing the limits and it is going to catch up with them.
My friends sure have aged in the last two years since I have seen them. They said everyone is flying 95 hours with a lot of backside of the clock flying. That is all hard time, no credit which is just insane but I must admit not illegal. If Emirates pilots want to put up with that crap who can stop them but it is their grave they are digging weather they know it or not.
I interviewed and even got hired a few years back for full disclosure. Fortunately I did not take the offer because I would have looked and felt like my friends do now.
The next time any of you EK pilots have a USA layover be sure to call the FAA. They probably will not do anything but at least you will get it on record of what Emirates is doing as they have to make a record of every complaint and your conscience will feel better when the accident happens.
Good luck to all of you and be sure to voice your concerns about the illegal operation Emrates is running. Let's hope they change for the better and stay on this side of the law but after all it is the middle east.
Last but not least remember that the US carriers will be hiring soon. Your body will thank you later.

[fatbus]

You might be surprised to find out that EK does everything according to GCAA rules, oh ya GCAA RULES get it, EK is covered and the legal dept is all over that to keep EK "legal", very middle east. FAA was just here doing an audit on the GCAA and word is they passed. So basically EK is operating legally as per there governing body. FAA approves GCAA which approves EK, there is nothing that EK does that the FAA is not aware of.

[Nightrider]

Then what is worse when they set the brakes after a trip is over they are off duty!

This, and other "limitation", is not only in the sandpit a legal procedure. Once you leave "civilization" you will find all sort of interesting ideas. Also I do not support any of these ancient laws, there is not much you can do about them if you accept a contract there as an expat.
You don't like it? Don't sign, don't go.

Some of the countries, where these "old" laws are still in force, are facing open-sky agreements to be implemented in the near future. Part of these agreements is the "harmonization" of the FDTL.....now that has given in the past some interesting interpretations and derogations.....

[flyzede]

"The Duty Limits. My friends were telling me that they have to be on the airplane by the time their duty time starts. All of the their pre-flight paperwork and briefings are done without being credited for their duty.
Then what is worse when they set the brakes after a trip is over they are off duty! The engines are still running, passengers are on board, and no checklists have been completed but you are off duty."
:eek:
How can you guys allow this? Isn't it supposed to start the Duty at least one hour before the scheduled off-block time?! And shouldn't the Duty end only 30 minutes after the on-block time?

[Wizofoz]

tomcat,

You are right about some things, not others.

Yes, factoring is a fiddle and I think it is unlikely to last much longer- HOWEVER it is in our approved OM-A, the GCAA know about it and have approved it, and the FAA just audited the GCAA with no findings.

I don't like it but it is clearly leagal.

As to sign on vs. actually start of duty, you are spot on. Emirates are by no means the only company with a similar MO but that doesn't make it right.


The one that annoys me because it is constanly brought up and no amount of explaining will get it across to people is the concept of FLIGHT DUTY PERIOD. The maximum amount of time you can spen engaged in FLYING is calculated, that is your maximum FLIGHT duty period and it finishes when you stop FLYING.

The idea is to avoid you being fatigued to the point that it interferes with your ability to operate the aircraft. Once the brakes are parked, you aren't likely to crash due to fatigue are you?

This is bog-standard JAR rules, and every European airline operates to that standard.

Having finished flying, what counts now is how much rest you get. THIS (sign off) happens after you have finished ALL duties. Standard is 30mins after shutdown (thats when Emirates PLAN for your rest to start) but if you are delayed beyond that, and are still doing company duty (i.e a debrief on a training flight), ring ops and tell them when your actual sign-off was- they are obliged to use this and alter any subsequent duty should you impinge on minimum rest. I've done so in the past.

[a345xxx]

Just because things are done differently over here don't make it illegal! It's like smoking pot in Amsterdam or carrying a gun in America. Just because it's legal over there don't make it legal over here!

[fliion]

All legit points however I was far more fatigued doing 5-6 legs a day on a previous gig than flying T7's here...and that is not a lie.

f

[Volverine]

Wizofox, I do not agree with your statement. No crash yes but when you set the parking brake and you are under fatigue you could easily take the wrong decision if an emergency occurs with more than 350 pax still on board and engines running, all are counting on you to protect them "in case of" till they reach the terminal or the bus. No ?
For me ITS A BIG YES and thats the way I intend to do my job.

[ManaAdaSystem]

I've worked for several airlines, including ME ones. Flight Duty has always been from SIGN ON to ON BLOCK. Your duty period still runs for another 30 minutes, and will determine your minimum rest.

EU Ops are no different, so if they define flight duty from OFF to ON BLOCK, they differ from most other regulations.
Bending the rules in this way will give EK an advantage over other airlines. You, the crew, are the ones who pay for this.

As long as you don't crash all is well. For the company.

[donpizmeov]

Guys don't be wound up by New Tomcat. This handle only posts on the middle east forum. Is a "Highly experienced Delta Captain" who turned down his "special contract" DEC job in EK several years ago.:ugh:
All the stuff he sprouts here was told to him when he was going to grace us all with his presence way back then. That would include the factoring, duty times, high hour months etc etc. Nothing has changed. Well nothing except we have had yet another pay cut.
How about you take a look at your under paid overworked commuter pilots in the US Tomcat. They would be the guys hired to take legacy carriers flying and be paid nothing, so that their management can have the bonuses. You be sure to tell the FAA about them to now ya here.

The Don

[ManaAdaSystem]

OK Don, but when does the flight duty period start and end in EK?

[Oblaaspop]

Ok guys listen up..... Wiz is absolutely correct your FDP ends at brakes on (this is the same as the UK and many other countries rules), however your DUTY ends 30 mins after brakes on, this means that you cant possibly start duty until at least 12hrs 30 mins AFTER brakes on got it??

It doesn't matter how many times this simple rule is explained to people, many just don't get it...... This is not an illegal practice. Now factoring..... that's a whole different subject!

BTW Tom, our duty time starts 1 hour before STD. This is standard for most airlines I can think of (apart from my last airline where it was 1hr 15 mins for long haul only, 1 hour for short). The fact that we get to briefing about 1hr 45 before STD (due to crew transport pick up timings) is a matter of contention.

I suggest to those of you who really despise this, make their own way to work and pitch up exactly 1 hr before push back as per the law (you are fully entitled to do this by the way). I'm absolutely sure though that you were slightly more professional than this in your last airline operating from a big airport (it can take over 20 mins to get to some of the aircraft stands).... Good luck to you I say, lets see how many c0ck ups you make when you pitch up to the aircraft 20 mins prior to STD. Me thinks some of you need to grow up and think a little more professionally perhaps?:ugh:

[ManaAdaSystem]

When does your flight duty start?

[Kila]

Looks like things are getting in the right direction... Waiting for Operators to comply...
CAAP 14: ULR OPERATIONS (Revised on 01 July 2010) (we are DEC 2010) (http://www.gcaa.gov.ae/en/ePublication/_layouts/GCAA/ePublication/DownloadFile.aspx?Un=/en/epublication/admin/Library%20Pdf/Civil%20Aviation%20Advisory%20Publication%20%28CAAP%29/CAAP14%20ULR.pdf)
`Although the CAAP itself is not a legal instrument, it may have legal effect in that failure to comply with specific requirements may lead to non-compliance with Civil Aviation Regulations. The use of the word “shall” in the CAAP should be seen as a mandatory requirement.``
Please, take a look at Civil Aviation Advisory Publication (CAAP) (http://www.gcaa.gov.ae/en/epublication/pages/caap.aspx)

IMPORTANT

(b) ULR pre-flight Rostering Requirements:
Prior to operating a ULR flight or a ULR Standby departing UAE, all crew members shall be scheduled for 02 days off including 03 local nights of rest in base.
(c) ULR Flight Rest Period Away from Base
In the ULR Rostered Duty Assignment, the scheduled period free of flying duties away from base shall be at least 48 hours.
(d) Post ULR Rostered Duty Assignment Rest At Base Before embarking on the Next Flight:
All crewmembers shall be scheduled for a minimum of 2 days off including 03 local nights of rest in base upon completion of a ULR pairing followed by any other duty or a ULR pairing.
(e) Each crew member shall not be rostered more than 02 ULR Pairings/calendar month. :D
Safe flying...;)

[Wizofoz]

Wizofox, I do not agree with your statement. No crash yes but when you set the parking brake and you are under fatigue you could easily take the wrong decision if an emergency occurs with more than 350 pax still on board and engines running, all are counting on you to protect them "in case of" till they reach the terminal or the bus. No ?
For me ITS A BIG YES and thats the way I intend to do my job.

Volv, yes I see your point, but it's simply a matter of having to set the point at which the flight finishes somewhere.

Yes, "All Pax Dissembarked" would be reasonable, but fact is On Blocks is what is used under JAR, which is what GCAA is based on.

Mada,

Flight duty = STD- 1hr- thing is, the OM-A definition of Duty is "Any task required by the company"- we are required to be briefed and on the bus to the aircraft 1:10 before STD, so this definatey is where they are having a lend.

Yes STD-1 has been a standard sign-on elsewhere (in fact std -45 at at least one), but at other airlines I was only required to BR THERE STD-1, at Emirates, I'm REQUIRED to start duty as soon as I arrive- by thecompany transport.

[Wizofoz]

Last but not least remember that the US carriers will be hiring soon. Your body will thank you later.

Tell me Tomcat- what is the Maximum duty a four-man crew can do under FAA, what is there maximum monthly and yearly flying hours in International ops, and what is the minimum rest period before a duty under FAA?

[Alconguin Crusader]

It does not matter when your duty or FDP ends or when your rest period begins. We are off duty and we have not even shut the egines down yet. At least give us 15 mins to complete the checklists and take care of the slugs.
Emirates will never do this of course because there go the Indian turnarounds with two pilots.
If we got 90 mins before (like a lot of international operations) and 30 mins after the flights Emirates would lose 80% of the night turnarounds. Like I said that will never happen and we pay the price.

[Wizofoz]

We are off duty and we have not even shut the egines down yet.

AC,

You have a long history of having things patiently explained to you and then ignoring the information supplied to you.

NO YOU ARE NOT OFF DUTY at blocks on. Your FLIGHT duty period has finished. Your DUTY ends a MINIMUM of 30 mins after that.

This is exactley as it is done in European operations under JAR- Do you dispute this?

This has been patiently explained above and you have ignored it.

Why?

[411A]

This has been patiently explained above and you have ignored it.


I suspect because...he is too busy moaning to contemplate the facts.
This is precisely why some will continue to ignore the protestations of many new(er) pilots to the region, as ops in the region are (or can be) quite different to where they came from.
The short answer is, as usual...don't like it, leave.
As...the modus operandi of the concerned airlines is quite likely not to change.

[alwayzinit]

Bottom line, its horses for courses.

In real terms, I leave my house EXACTLY at the same relative time here at EK as I did flying in the UK.

Instead of : Driving myself to the airport staff car park, looking for a space not somewhere in the next county(literally), getting bus to office. I now: Get picked up by a car( driver skills not withstanding:E) am delivered directly to the office door.

Now IF you want to go straight into your Flight Planning so be it,or take some personal time to get a coffee "chew the fat" with whom ever is in the coffee shop and THEN get on with flight planning,10 -15 mins.

As I look at it it works out about the same.

And yes FDP has ALWAYS stopped at brakes on wherever I have worked.:ugh::ugh:

[SOPS]

Thank GOD for a balanced reply.:D If anyone wants to check the publised roster, they will see that ALWAYS the rest period starts 30 mins after on blocks.

If you want to arrive at work at one hour before sign on..do it..you are allowed....no argument at all.

Factoring..thats another story...........

The rules are in The OMA and the are being followed...

[fatbus]

we should all start going to costa and not be in a rush to leave, enjoy the coffee there

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Alwayzinit
There is also an arguement that because Cpt Emirates Nigel is bought in from his compound he could be in a better Fatigue risk position that the hordes of BA pilots that position into LHR before their flights , hang around for ages, take advantage of a augmented sleep on a long haul flight after take off then operate, on many many other Pilots who commute long distances before flying.
The factorisation issue is a no brainer so total support on that issue:\

[IXNAT]

I dare anyone to pass through immigration or at the kiosk signin at EGHQ exactly one hour prior to STD. The crew will already have gone, the FDM will be frantically looking for you or a replacement. And if you actually used 90 minutes prior to STD, like most international long haul operators, for the Dhaka turns, one would be into Capt's discretion before arriving at the aircraft. So someone please let us know when you sign in one hour prior to departure and not call the FDM. How's that gonna work for ya?

[Praise Jebus]

You may be surprised to know IXNAT that there are approx 6 Capts on the AB fleet who do exactly that, arrive at STD minus 60. The FMA arranges their transport to the jet because they are not late...

[BYMONEK]

IXNAT

Jesus is spot on. It's kept fairly quiet for obvious reasons. There is a seperate car to take you to the aircraft, the FDM's are aware and it's a non issue.

The Company realises full well they can say nothing on this and rely on the 99% of guys who go to work without question but moan on here.

There's nothing to stop you signing in and boosting Costa's profits!

Your choice.

[Jihad Jim]

FACK said

"What Wizofoz is seemingly not aware of is that before he arrived here to teach us all,......."

Nice chip on your shoulder mate. Typical of the know all manual obsessed point scoring sub culture we have. So you've been here a bit longer, get over yourself, or join training and show us how its done.But you probably have a reason not too ....conveniently. Anyway..

No operator using variations of 371 counts time after chocks towards FDP or fdp monthly or annual limits. They do count total duty period when calculating your rest and cumulative hrs of total duty. Simples.

If you have a problem with your pick up or report then a solution has been suggested and apparantly demonstrated already so fill your boots:ok:

[Obi Wan Kirk]

in Omanair the roster is all over the place and lots of consecutive night flying followed by two days and another two nights. The only way to avoid an accident is to call in sick.

Some guys thinking of jumping ship to Emirates, but I guess the story isn't much different.

I wonder if the current deals in Vietnam & China are any better?

[Oblaaspop]

Sorry Fack, been using the UK CAP 371 (on which the UAE GCAA FTL's are predicated) for over 2 decades and (unlike you it seems) I am FULLY conversant with how they work!

I'm surprised you don't understand, as we (and the OM-A) couldn't be ANY clearer....... Perhaps English isn't your first language? If this is the case then you can be forgiven, if it is however, step aside and let the adults speak!:E

God knows what you are arguing about? You openly acknowledge that we get a 30 mins allowance for post flight duties (which IS included as part of your running DUTY totals AS IS DEADHEADING!!).......So what's your point? Me thinks you are getting awfully confused between the definitions of FDP and Duty Time.

If you can be bothered, check out the UK CAA FTLs (which are JAR compliant I hasten to add), you will find NO difference in the definitions. Care to argue the toss? Go ahead, you won't win:ugh:

[Bird On]

Fack5
at last somebody who actually knows what the book says rather than what they think they would like the book to say.
I'm guessing you also received one of "those" letters from they who must be obeyed when we told to change the times that were written on the Voyage Reports.
As to the 6 heroes (Urban Legend??) who walk thru immigration 1 hour before departure, hows about you ring up the poor F/O and order him/her to do the same instead of expecting them to do the entire pre-flight preparation for you, but I guess then right or wrong you might be held accountable for your actions!!!!!!

[new tomcat]

I am glad that I have stirred up some discussion on Emirates.
Just a few thoughts on the matter. Just because the aviation authority deems Emirates action legal by their no comment, blind eye, or having everyone's cousin on each others board does not make it legal. The GCAA might let Emirates do whatever they like but is that morally legal, ethically legal or just plain legal? I know a few lawyers who would tear that argument up in court in a New York minute given the chance.
The FDP that allows for a two pilot turnarounds in the middle of the night is only "legal" when that 30 mins of post flight duties is not included in the FDP. My friends said when they first got to the sand 30 mins was included in the FDP but was taken away in 2005.
This is what we (my friends and I) are referring to. If you have a 9 hours duty limit at a proper airline you would have 90 mins taken up in pre flight obligations and 30 mins used up in post flight obligations whhich leaves you only 7 hours of flying and a lot of your night turnarounds become null and void. Wala, do away with 60 mins of your FDP and you can do all that crap flying and that explains why my former co-workers look like they do. Like manure and 15 years older than they actually are.
I don't care when the rest period starts, how much rest you need, or how the rest is calculated. The FDP without 30 mins (and 90 mins pre flight) at the end is wrong and illegal.
I noticed no one is saying Emirates is running a legal operation, just trying to muddy the waters as to when a rest period starts. The factoring ends all arguments full stop, period, end of discussion. EMIRATES IS ILLEGAL. No airline in the whole world to the best of my knowledge has factoring. I am sure the Aussie will correct me if I am wrong and please do so.
Keep trying to defend Emirates and you will look like the fool. it was mentioned that I check in on the middle east forum. Thank you for checking my record but I was making sure I made the right choice and judging by what is written here, talking to my friends, and seeing what the management is doing to you I sure did make the right choice.

[Alconguin Crusader]

WHAT?

EK Kool-Aid drinker you do a wonderful job of trying to deflect the issues.
I believe the issue is EK running an illegal operation and now you are talking about OJ, Regional jets and Gitmo.
I don't know why Americans come to the sand pit, for each person there is probably a different answer. Most came before EK went rapidly south and as you know it is very difficult to get out once here. Please don't say if you don't like it leave crap. That is the worse kind of management style and it just proves a 3rd world loser mentality.

[Wizofoz]

Tomcat-

Notice you didn't answer my questions regardind AMERICAN FTLs.

Once again:-

Max duty for a four man crew?
Minimum rest before a duty?
Maximum monthly and yearly totals for Long haul passenger and freight?

[Fred Garvin M.P.]

§ 121.485 Flight time limitations: Three or more pilots and an additional flight crewmember.

(a) Each certificate holder conducting flag operations shall schedule its flight hours to provide adequate rest periods on the ground for each pilot who is away from his base and who is a pilot on an airplane that has a crew of three or more pilots and an additional flight crewmember. It shall also provide adequate sleeping quarters on the airplane whenever a pilot is scheduled to fly more than 12 hours during any 24 consecutive hours.
(b) The certificate holder conducting flag operations shall give each pilot, upon return to his base from any flight or series of flights, a rest period that is at least twice the total number of hours he flew since the last rest period at his base. During the rest period required by this paragraph, the air carrier may not require him to perform any duty for it. If the required rest period is more than seven days, that part of the rest period in excess of seven days may be given at any time before the pilot is again scheduled for flight duty on any route.
(c) No pilot may fly as a flight crewmember more than—
(1) 350 hours during any 90 consecutive days; or
(2) 1,000 hours during any 12-calendar-month period.

[skyvan]

This is a stupid topic.

EK run a legal operation. They have a complete department who's only job is to ensure it is legal.

Unfortunately, being legal has nothing to do with being moral or ethical

That the legal operation is hard on the workers, and in some places immoral and unethical is without question, but the operation is legal.

There is no such thing as "morally" or "ethically" legal, it is either ethical, moral or legal. Please do not try to muddy the waters by combining the definitions.

At the end of the day, EK operate within the framework of the law, therefore they are legal.

[UAE_Pilot]

Sovereign laws. Based on the state, and not just copy and paste from others. United Arab Emirates has its own laws, and companies on which the track civil aviation laws of the State.

[Saltaire]

Couldn't agree more, well said.

Anyone listening?

[BYMONEK]

Well, allow me to disagree with at least one or two.

If you're so worried about turning up for work 1 hour and 45 minutes before departure, why don't you take a newspaper, buy yourself a coffee and chill in one of the 3 lounges provided. If that still bothers you, cancel the transport and drive yourself into work like most of the other pilots round the World. That way you can spend more of your precious time at home.

1 hour delay at hotel? Suggest a good read of the FTL's on the next layover. FTL's that, as has been mentioned on many occassions, are not unique to EK. They are taken from the UK's CAP371 and are the governing factor for most UK airlines.

As for getting on the bus after 30 minutes, did you ever bother to ask if any of the crew were on min rest? In the unlikely event, would you have been prepared to contact crew control on their behalf and have their duty changed? I have although I doubt you did.

I don't like some of the practices employed here, but those that effect legality or safety, I question and, if necessary, refuse. For people like you, however, it's far easier to come on here and moan, rather than actually have the balls and professionalism to do anything about it. Shocking but true.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Sittingidly
As Bymonek says you're on slightly dodgy ground. If you asked the UK CAA that sort of question about picking up the phone to be delayed you'd be told to "get a life".
BALPA are undertaking a lifestyle study on fatigue / social issues i'll find the link / contact for you guys and you can contribute towards it if you want. It's all confidential and the data is being compiled by a respected chap called Simon Bennett from Leicester UNI in the UK. Might be worth a punt on spending some time on it because the results will go to regulators etc. :\

[White Knight]

Shocking but true.

C'mon sittingidly - get a backbone!!!! You've already told us in another thread (started by you) how big your Boeing balls are:ugh: Guess you should refuse most duties now heh? But take note of what BYMONEK says as it's similar practice in other parts of the world:}:}

Chin up big boy:E:E

[fourgolds]

Just wait until the next farce.The latest email from our illustrious management team says our January rosters should reflect predominanty East or West patterns.However this may well mean we can expect more of the same pairings in the same direction . Has anybody considered what this may actually mean.

Ok so they were given the extra IAH and LAX flights. This is where the immediate shortage on the B777 presented. However we are limited to 2 ULR,s a month. This simple sollution now paves the way for 3 or more ULR,s a month on all fleets , appearing to care and do something , in the spirit of safety they proclaim, however achieving even more productivity from an allready exhausted pilot group.( remember the time in the bunk does not count) , standbye for over 100 hrs every month and close to 1000 hrs a year !

[Wizofoz]

fourgolds,

So, you think that they shouldn't have even attempted to address one of the things that gets the most number of complaints from the Pilots? The mix of East then West bound flights?

Honestly, why should management try to address ANY of our concerns when, the moment they do, someonee comes on the net and bitches about it?

[fourgolds]

We will see who is correct in the months to come. I do not believe they have any intention of honouring " predominantly" East or West bound rostering practices. Its a smoke screen to possibly alllow more than 2 ULR,s a month ( therefore take farther advantage of factoring). Also the latest email by no means commits to this.

If am wrong then I am wrong. But history shows , they never give anything without taking something away, and yes my theory is based on distrust. If they present their argument to GCAA that they are reducing fatigue by going in one direction , then how about removing the minimum of 2 per month restriction in return.Watch this space. I really want to be wrong , I want you to be correct. I want management to be taking fatigue seriously. I want to be wrong on this.

Wiz if you want a break fromPPrune , why not go to google and do a search on " pilot fatigue" . you might be astounded.

[falconeasydriver]

Jeez I'd give my left nut for 3 ULR's a month.....6,7,8 hrs in the bunk, 4 days off before, 3 off after, bliss, as long though as its in the same direction:8

[Bypass ratio]

When the Airbus380 arrived almost 2 years ago, the GCAA gave EK an approval for crews to operate 3 ULR's/month. I believe it was only for 6-12 months.

[Plank Cap]

In post #50, Contacted said,

''1000 hours per month (year?) would be difficult for management to implement as it would be another step away from JAR style FTLs. Why worry about something that hasn't happened yet?''

........ sorry to say but this has already happened, by default. The difference between my actual annual hours (counting them the way any sane crew member does, ie 1 for 1) and my EK calculated (factored) hours was 103:00 at the end of September, for the previous year. Therefore it doesn't take too much rocket science to work out that the 900 hour annual limit has now effectively become 1000, using the company's method of factorising augmented flying time. And remember that many of us are at / approaching 900 for the year, even using the factorised method of calculation.

EK don't need to apply for a thousand hour annual limit - it's already here............!

[galactica]

Your are legally responsible as a commander until the last passenger goes off, but EK stop calculating your duty once the paring break is set. It use to be different years ago, but they change it to parking break set.

By the way, someone mention previously : you like the contact, sign it and live with it. In the middle east, the contract is a one way contract but resigning from your previous company was an irreversible choice for many ( as Ek force you to do so) but us, in these carrier we now know it.

[Wizofoz]

Your are legally responsible as a commander until the last passenger goes off, but EK stop calculating your duty once the paring break is set. It use to be different years ago, but they change it to parking break set.

No, your FLIGHT duty finishes with on-chocks, your TOTAL duty does not, and this has been the same, always.

You used to get PAID for total rather than flight duty, and that was changed.

BA, Lufthansa and easyJet pilots are just as responsible for their passengers, and their FDP finishes with on-chocks too.

[harry the cod]

Contacted

Is that a should or a must or a shall? ;)

You're absolutely right though, especially on the confusing VR form. I sent an email to fleet when the form was changed about 6 years ago highlighting the discrepancy in wording. I never received a reply.

Harry