Structure of GA in Aust.

[polair911]

Hi all,

I am just relaying a question from a friend of mine whose studying aviation at uni.

I was approached and questioned by this friend of mine, asking me about the history and structure of general aviation in Australia, he's after information about how the industry works, its relationship with the regulator CASA, the local community as well as their customers.

Yes, I know this could be a rather boring non-flying kind of topic, but it is actually quite interesting for myself to know too.

Do you guys (and ladies of course) know where to find such info??
Please leave a message here or PM.

cheers~:ok:

PA911

[gobbledock]

Is your friends name Alan Joyce ?

[triadic]

One of the main problems with GA in Australia is that there is no votes in it, so those in CBR don't see the need.

On top of that there are very few politicians or senior public servants that know much about any type of aviation other than as a passenger.

Until Aviation and GA get some "insiders" and it lifts its profile to where there are votes at risk, nothing much will change.

There is little or no "structure" as most of the groups representing various sectors of the industry want to do their own thing. Only when they all get together will it stand any chance of becoming a force to be listened to.

There was more structure and the standards were higher 20 to 40 years ago than they are today. There must be a message there somewhere??
:confused::confused:

[polair911]

Is your friends name Alan Joyce ?

Do u think Alan Joyce would give a sh*t about the poor GA??

One of the main problems with GA in Australia is that there is no votes in it, so those in CBR don't see the need..............


I'm gonna take the risk of making myself sound stupid, but what's CBR? :E

How would you compare the industry now to let's say 20 odds yrs ago??

Flying has always been alot of people dreams (including myself), but it just seems like the airlines are the only place where we could earn a livable life......I could be wrong, but anyone wanna share some lights?

cheers~~~:ok:

PA911

[Skynews]

Alan Joyce doesn't give a **** about anything but his bank balance.

CBR = Canberra

[Like This - Do That]

One of the main problems with GA in Australia is that there is no votes in it, so those in CBR don't see the need.

I'll fix it up for ya mate!

One of the main problems with GA in Canberra is that it has been destroyed, so those in CBR don't see GA anymore.

:{

I agree with you triadic.

Last weekend's Canberra Times included a beautifully produced and expensive looking colour supplement about Canberra International Airport. I was struck with how much of the document they dedicated to praising ... well ... celebrating ... errr ... well ... endorsing ... umm ... in fact ... ignoring GA.

The decision makers in the national capital don't get to see GA, don't see what it provides, it's out of sight and out of mind. Not too hard to see how the only people who care about the health of GA are a handful of National Party MPs, and perhaps Senator Heffernan from the Libs. The rest, if they acknowledge GA at all, see it as a pest; noisy, dangerous and annoying and populated by cranky old white men, and occupying land that is crying out for real estate development.

Massive big empty continent with scarce railways, cruddy roads and long distances. You'd think general aviation would be on a winner, wouldn't you?

[Lodown]

Emphasis on "empty".

[aroa]

The MBEC / massive big empty continent aka the GAFA should have the most active GA, remote areas servicing sector on the planet.
But no.! Que ??

Because its been over run with overbearing dronery, products of (non Aviation House in Canberra, which is a creche/sinecure for ex RAAF, ex Airline or ex police folk with absolutely, no interest in, or knowlege of GA business and how it ticks. Bureaucrazy rules OK ?

And of course to make it all "safer", trainloads of suspect regulations and bumpf, scribbled up over decades...its an employment thing, stupid.!... for them,and the lawyers, not for us. Those out actually still doing aviation are just the criminals that havent been tripped up by some obscure regulation yet.

THe biggest obstruction to a vibrant GA is crap regulation and interference by the punitive mind-set micro-managers.

Some bloody democracy we have here, when your life and livelihood are controlled by unelected bureaucats, NOT doing the required bidding of the Government, breaching government reg. guidelines, making every trivial thing a 'strict liability' crime... and believing that the Crimes Act is something that only applies only to others. They have their "code of conduct" ( laugh):rolleyes:

Private GA is going/gone the way of the dodo. Little wonder RAA is booming.. the affordable d.i.y. alternative.

And a disclaimer.. While there are some very committed and aviation passionate folk in CB / CBR... there are many more that aint. Also there is a complete failure of corporate vision to acknowlege the problems CASA causes GA. Or to even to acknowlege that, and do any bloody thing about it.:\

[Lodown]

Have a read of the Ben Sandilands article linked on the Reporting Points page:

Here (http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points/436105-when-policy-rules-regs.html)

Regulation and enforcement for the airlines. Regulation and enforcement for GA. Perhaps two separate and unrelated disciplines?

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

GA has structure?

Dr :8

[Kharon]

No university course required. Basic research available here on Pprune.

GA stricture, conflict, fear and fragmentation writ large.

Inept administration writ larger.

There are a couple of well turned Anglo Saxon phrases which could sum it all up without even doing the research.

Who's to blame. The flipping industry of course.

Standing like lambs in the slaughter house, too scared to go Baah!! let alone a resounding Booh! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gif:ugh:http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/pukey.gif
.

[Frank Arouet]

Apathy is a curse........................


But who cares?:(


.....................and until someone does care, things will remain the same.

[Lodown]

I'll have a go at answering the initial question.

History: easy enough to look up
Structure: easy enough to chase up
How the industry works: someone has the money and wants to go flying; operator goes flying, pays bills and maintains the aircraft.
Relationship with CASA: Volumes and volumes of constantly changing, obtuse rules and regulations separating conscientious people on both sides of the table.
Local community: Believes what they read in the media that GA is dangerous and should be closed down. (I could point fingers here, but shall restrain myself.)
Customers: GA is a necessary evil. Grin and get it over with asap.

[geeup]

Does GA still exist?
I thought it was closed down years ago...

[PapaNovGolf]

I'm not sure if people are already doing this, but given the state of GA in this country, couldn't a group of enthusiasts pool resources and build a private airfield from which to fly? We do this with hospitals, schools, childcare, roads, transport, superannuation... why not GA?

I'm not talking about 5-star airparks. A patch of land somewhere, an airstrip, a common shed with some amenities as a focal point. What, we can't rustle up a few hundred (if not thousands) people across this entire country to take matters into their own hands (lawfully of course)?

Waiting for CASA, waiting for Albanese, waiting for Canberra, waiting, waiting.. :ugh:

If GA folks want this so badly (and I think most people do otherwise why would they be hanging around here?), what's the holdup?

[Ultralights]

have a look at the Sydney Airfield initiative,
http://groups.google.com/group/sydneyai?hl=en

[Lodown]

...couldn't a group of enthusiasts pool resources and build a private airfield from which to fly?

PNG, this was once the case. Have a block of land; clear some trees, mow some grass on a regular basis and you could run charter from a grass strip. Someone decided this was too risky and more and more rules were introduced that alienated VFR charter and eventally made the practice unsustainable. Check another win up to CASA. Then insurance companies became involved...

[Plow King]

Polair, somewhere along the line I acquired a book produced by the government called Plane Safe - Inquiry into aviation safety: The commuter and general avaition sectors. It was produced as a result of an inquiry following the Monarch & Seaview accidents of '93 & '94, so some of the data contained is a snapshot and is a little dated. Pretty dry reading, but it addresses a few of the issues you mentioned. PM me with your details if you think it is of any use and I could pop it in the mail.

PK

[PapaNovGolf]

It's the nanny state thing, isn't it? OK, we all know the inherent dangers involved in flying. That's why we train to become licensed. But that's never going to stop incidents from happening. So, I guess CASA regulates to try and make everything "safe". So safe that nobody flies anymore - voila! A 100% safety record!

I'm being cynical, I know.