Mrs Bloggs 'At Home' Etiquette/Protocols

[musclemech]

Having recently moved into a new house in a deepest rural English village, the present Mrs MM and I have been invited to Mrs Bloggs (wife of retd Army officer) At Home, for drinks in a few weeknds time. Never having been schooled in these sorts of things, I wonder if any of the Officer Corps could help with etiquette/ protocols for such events?

For instance, the RSVP has been crossed out and what looks like refutts (or maybe reputts) written above. Any help with that one?

What exactly does an 'At Home' for drinks afternoon entail, and what dress would be appropriate (for me and for Mrs MM).

Does one take a bottle of wine/ flowers/ chocolates/ all of the above?

Presumably normal etiquette for arrival times and for post event Thank You notes would be appropriate?

Any other advice would be gratefully received.
Thanks in advance
MM

[Random Bloke]

"Regrets" rather than RSVP - ie if I don't hear from you I'll assume that you're coming - only reply if you can't attend (and then it is due to a previous engagement).

'At home' is short for drinks and nibbles (finger food). It would be appropriate to take a small gift (flowers and/or decent chocolates). As to dress - probably smart casual - chinos and a shirt for you and a dress for Mrs MM - if you're not sure then ask before hand; no shame in that.

Do write a short thank you note; this should be from Mrs MM to Mrs Bloggs; just say thank you for her hospitality and company and how nice it was to meet everyone (written in the first person).

Arrive about 15 minutes late and don't be the last to leave.

[Brain Potter]

"At Home" ?

Maybe she is going to give you a fairly big one-day airshow, followed by a piss-up, night-out in Doncaster/St Andrews/Cardiff and a FOD-plod on a following morning?

[exmover_and_happy]

Brian Potter -

http://www.twistedsifter.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/guinness-brilliant.jpg

[diginagain]

"At Home" ?

Maybe she is going to give you a fairly big one-day airshow, followed by a piss-up, night-out in Doncaster/St Andrews/Cardiff and a FOD-plod on a following morning?

If that's the case, take lots of piccies. It may well be the last.

[Old-Duffer]

There may be a hidden agenda here.

Perhaps you're being sized up to see if you're 'socially acceptable' and before you know it, it's the parish council for you and the WI for the Mrs.

On the other hand it could be : "come along on Thursday and bring the car keys"!!

O-D

[sisemen]

All you need to know :ok:

bljtlQ_k4vk

[Load Toad]

Maybe take a bit of grass to chill everyone out a bit. Later - naked Twister and baby oil.

[Pontius Navigator]

There may be a hidden agenda here.

Perhaps you're being sized up to see if you're 'socially acceptable' and before you know it, it's the parish council for you and the WI for the Mrs.

Car keys certainly. Being young and mobile Mrs MM will be an unpaid wheels service for the electric buggy brigade. You may be line dup as the secretary or more likely treasurer.

Gardening? Flowers? Church? Golf?

Need to do a bit of homework old boy. Was he a Col (rtd), actually Lt Col but really a Maj or Flt Lt equivalent? :( If he was more senior then be sure to listen to all the funny stories or which he will have a fund.

[barnstormer1968]

If you take flowers, wrap them in paper and not cellophane, as this looks more expensive!

Don't take them after eights or quality street, but something more like Bendicks of Mayfair, as these are not too flash, but not mundane either

As per above, definitely get your partner to hand write a thank you letter to the wife of the colonel, and not him.

let the colonel and his wife know that you are both very busy, and already are members of various organisations, so cannot join any more during the chit chat. It will be better for you to join the parish council later, rather than be shoved into a post no one else wants!


Good luck, and think of it as a SERE course, but just say "Oh yes lovely" rather than "I cannot answer that question":E

[diginagain]

Just remember not to monopolise their hallway mirror, MM. :E

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Having recently moved into a new house in a deepest rural English village, the present Mrs MM and I have been invited to Mrs Bloggs (wife of retd Army officer) At Home, for drinks in a few weeknds time. Never having been schooled in these sorts of things, I wonder if any of the Officer Corps could help with etiquette/ protocols for such events?

For instance, the RSVP has been crossed out and what looks like refutts (or maybe reputts) written above. Any help with that one?

What exactly does an 'At Home' for drinks afternoon entail, and what dress would be appropriate (for me and for Mrs MM).

Does one take a bottle of wine/ flowers/ chocolates/ all of the above?

Presumably normal etiquette for arrival times and for post event Thank You notes would be appropriate?

Any other advice would be gratefully received.
Thanks in advance
MM

The very fact that you have to ask these questions should be ringing your "alarm bells" :p:p:p

[Brian 48nav]

Reminds me of when I was a 21yr Plt Off at Changi. Shortly after our arrival the squadron held an all-ranks party in the Malcolm Club. My 18 year old bride got incredibly pissed off at being addressed as 'my dear child' by Mrs Stash; this was followed by a coffee morning invite by a flight commander's wife. After she got home she said 'never ever expect me to go to one of those awful things again; I'm fed-up with being talked down to!' We hadn't learnt the word patronise then!

So bang went my future career before I had had time to screw it up myself.

Years later, after she had started the area's art group and became the chairman and now life-president, I think she would have made a fantastic career officer's wife.I would have been the weak link!

[Old-Duffer]

... pontius navigator is quite up to speed with my comment re the car keys.

It could be one of those set ups where the keys get thrown into the middle of the room - do I have to say more???!!!

O-D

[Pontius Navigator]

O-D. I was well ahead of you. Mrs PN was sucked into the WI but soon found out it was because she had a driving licence and was seen as a soft touch. They were wrong.

[A2QFI]

I have grisly memories of going to some cocktails do at Cranditz and while I was doing something menial for the Commandant my wife was told "The Flt Lt's wives are over there".

[thegypsy]

Pontius Navigator

Who is Mrs PM you refer to?:rolleyes:

[Two's in]

Musclemech,

Don't overlook the obvious - you and Mrs MM might simply have been invited for your quick wit and repartee. The format of the invite tells you one of two things - it's a "no civvies" do only, or it's the only way the dear chap knows to have a bash.

Either way, you and your wife are not being invited for your knowledge of Debrett's or JSP 101, so get the basics right by all means, but just go and enjoy yourselves. Mrs Willoughby-Smythe will be delighted that you came and enjoyed yourself, only the proles would be rude enough to laugh at your home knitted Thomas the Tank Engine sweater.

One tip with "mixed' functions - do wean yourself off acronyms and abbreviations before you get there. The anecdote about the Pygmy and the Gynecologist will be funnier without all the staccato alphabet soup we all tend to use these days. People who don't know what an ATTC BPS Double overhead knurled flange-bracket is may feel excluded.

[Pontius Navigator]

do wean yourself off acronyms and abbreviations before you get there. .

Reminds me, as a newly commissioned and partly trained baby nav I was a civvie cocktail party. Drink was OK but other than that it was not the most scintillating event. Then I heard the words:

"Let's do a 180 and get the hell out of here."

I could not believe it. It was a couple of ladies, probably in their 40s. The clue was this was around 1962. I was too young to take advantage of the situation and a few years before Simon and Garfunkel.

[Spartacan]

I am delighted to hear that deep rural villages with polite social functions still exist. I thought Blighty had been leveled with concrete and was populated solely by chavs.

Hope you have a good time.

[thegypsy]

musclemech

Put us all out of our misery and give us a clue as to where this rural village is;)

PS Promise i will not tell a soul,also what rank did he attain this at home fella?

I remember as a youngster a neighbour coming to my mothers at home do and he left his card on the silver salver. ( He was a Group Captain Rtd) Better get some printed I think as you do not want to let the side down.

[TheChitterneFlyer]

Having recently moved into a new house in a deepest rural English village, the present Mrs MM...


The "present" Mrs MM? Are you looking for an exchange version?

In all seriousness, if you're ex military you'll understand all of the protocols; however, if you're not of the military breed don't be "put off" by any perceptions of what might be expected of you. Go and enjoy yourselves without any pre-conceptions of protocol; most importantly... be yourselves and not what you think you should be!

Yes, a small gift for the lady of the house would be most appreciated... though, don't go overboard!

After the event... a "thank you" note (from Mrs MM - "the current Mrs MM") will ensure that you'll recieve an invite to the next event (assuming that you did genuinely enjoy yourselves!).

Are you prepared, if neccessary, for a return "match"?

TCF

[Pontius Navigator]

Somewhere in Bucks I would imagine :)

[Scotch Bonnet]

Quite simple really, preload about 4/8 G and Ts before setting off (get wifey to drive if ness). Bounce through the front door gushing like mad trying to remain upright. Flirt like mad with the wife of regardless of age bearing or looks (the G and Ts will help). Feign interest in all the photos or pictures and wax lyrical with some tenously linked story about yourself helping other people and having no concern for your own advancement/safety. Drink heavily and ask for the music to be turned up and remember to take your own ipod, don't rely on their selection of Mary Hopkins et al. After about two hours of heavy drinking with Rage against the machine blaring in excess of 80 decibals ask for the keys to the Whisky or at the very least vintage port. Continue to drink, one of two things will happen 1. you will be asked to leave. 2. you will have a new bezzer. Either way you will have had a thoroughly good pissup. Don't be surprised in the morning when you find that you didn't actually morph into Pierce Brosnan, the wet patch in the wardrobe was not the dogs responsibility and the cat did not try to make a ham curry. Lastly the pool of vom in the hallway will be yours. Enjoy.

[diginagain]

People who don't know what an ATTC BPS Double overhead knurled flange-bracket is may feel excluded.

MM's a Gym Queen. Just how many acronyms and abbreviations do you think he has in his vocab?:}

[Neptunus Rex]

...he left his card on the silver salver. ... Better get some printed I think as you do not want to let the side down.Printed? Embossed, surely.

[airborne_artist]

The "present" Mrs MM? Are you looking for an exchange version?

MM used to listen to the Irish announcer on the Light Programme ;)

Part of the format will be an interview, not just by your hostess, but by the rest of those who play a part in making the village tick. Like all good military types, do your recce first. Find out (pub/PO/garage/parish magazine) who is who, and where there might be an outlet for your talents. Volunteer - saves being press-ganged.

Village life is good fun - the present Mrs AA and I left the smoke twenty years ago, and rolled home from our first village Harvest Supper at about 0400.

[Thomas coupling]

I still find it difficult to believe this sort of thing still goes on. People dying in Afghanistan, Pakistan floods, Tsunami, unemployment.
And you are worried about making the right impression to a junior pillock lost in time.
Get a life the lot of you. Join the real world and make a difference. Go round there wearing what you bl**dy well like and talking about current affairs, not what colour suits her outfit or where to purchase the latest springer spaniel.
FFS guys.............................:ugh:

[ralphmalph]

MM,
Debrett's Online - the authority on Etiquette, Taste and Achievement (http://www.debretts.com). From the horses mouth as it were.

Regards

Ralph

[Pontius Navigator]

Oh and on dress, brown shoes but NOT yellow or red cords :)

[Old-Duffer]

Come on Thomas, get a life!

If you expect the nation to spend its life in sackcloth and ashes as we bemoan the problems of the world, you've got another think coming.

This thread, as the posts reveal, are nothing more than light banter - great for morale. Just accept it as that and leave the thread unread if it's not for you. You could always start a new thread on how you will put the world right in 27 easy lessons.

Cheer up old chap.

O-D

[Red Line Entry]

I don't know with whom you're coupling, Thomas, but I hope you don't depress her as much!

[NUFC1892]

It's important to cover all angles:

Farting Etiquette
In the middle ages, loudly breaking wind was an act of appreciation to the housewife/hostess: Martin Luther is quoted as supposedly having said Warum rülpset und furzet ihr nicht, hat es euch denn nicht geschmecket? ('Why don't you belch and fart, did you not enjoy the meal?'1 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A673508#footnote1)). This rule of behaviour has now been abandoned and gas should be released only after having stepped outside. Persistent failure to abide by this rule may lead to social isolation.
Some more points are:

If you are a real gentleman and realise that a lady had some small misfortune then you are supposed to plead guilty in her place and formally excuse yourself.
If you cannot blame the dog because there aren't any around, you may try to shoot an embarrassed look at the nearest of your companions. However, everybody knows this trick and it is extremely likely to fail. The same is true for raising your volume while speaking, or moving your chair in an attempt to cover the sound.
Pretending to be innocent can help, but only if you manage to keep yourself from asking questions like 'Ooooh, who did that?'. Because everybody knows that whoever smelt it, dealt it, or whoever denied it, supplied it.
Farts can bring more excitement into wedlock if administered in a Dutch Oven2 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A673508#footnote2): this is where one partner lets go a huge fart, pulls the duvet cover or bed sheets over the head of their loved one, trapping them in a confusion of methane, while shouting triumphantly, 'Dutch oven! Dutch oven!' The person trapped will wriggle like an eel, the trapper will then nearly die laughing and it will all end up in a really boisterous play fight. Of course, this is all in questionable taste.
Passing wind in a lift is strongly advised against. There is no way for the victims to escape or open a window, and revenge may follow immediately.
It is wise to stay clear of suspect food well before such important occasions as a job interview, the school ball, receiving a Nobel prize, or asking your girlfriend the 'big' question.
You should know what's about to happen if someone stretches out their hand to you and asks you to pull their finger. There's danger ahead. Don't do it!
If everything else fails and everybody is staring at you, you may try to turn the wrongdoing into an accomplishment: put on a proud face, declare it as an achievement, and challenge your hostess to beat you with an even louder one. But be prepared for a reply along the lines of 'Pray for your soul because your body is already rotten.http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/B1990951white
Hope this helps

[Old-Duffer]

Neptunus is right; certainly, the visiting cards must be embossed but it is essential that one’s club is recorded – bottom left, I believe.

I don’t think a few G&Ts beforehand is a good idea!

I once took a female PM nursing sister to a posh cocktail party but she had already taken precautions, lest the drinks supply was impaired. About an hour into the event, she fell to the ground, taking the principal host with her! The interview I had the following morning can best be called; ‘unpleasant’.

The lady quickly realised I was a dead loss and set her hat (it’s called a ‘black dick’ in the PM nursing world by the way – honest) at another officer. She arrived at the wedding having once more prepared for a slow start to the drinks and I’m told the antics at the Reception are still talked about to this very day.

Many years later, whilst travelling to a meeting with others, I spotted said lady and was unable to avoid sitting diagonally across the train aisle from her. I did my best to stare out the window, became engrossed in my newspaper or fell deep into conversation with the others. She, however, apparently kept staring at me and after she left the train, I was asked what it was all about. I recounted the tale and one of my companions said the book she had with her was something like; “The WHICH book of getting divorced”!! Lucky escape pour moi.

O-D

[thegypsy]

Neptunus Rex

Embossed obviously. Is there any other way a gentleman would have his cards done?:E Assumed everyone knew that although i feel it still comes under the general category of printing.

[Pontius Navigator]

Trouble is you can get these horible 'plastic' embossed cards these days.

Don't forget to put your club on the card rather than anything common like an address.

[teeteringhead]

No no no no no no - not embossed but engraved. That is to say, made by an engraver chappie carving a copper plate to be used.

Real printers' ink too, so the indentation of the engraving gives the printing a raised nature which can be detected (as can its absence) by the surreptitious running of a fingernail across the card under investigation.

Pshaw to "embossed", I'm disappointed in you PN, and particularly you O-D. ;););)

As ever in these cases, one defers to Stradling:"Cards must be of the correct size, those for officers being 1 1/2 x 3 in., and those for their wives 2 5/8 x 3 3/8 in., and must be of the first quality.
Do not commit the error of having cards "printed" at any old stationers, thinking no one will know.
Your name must be engraved on a copper plate. The difference is apparent at once to the touch; the writing can be felt on a card made from a plate, whereas the ordinary printed card will feel smooth......"

One notes in passing,with approval, that thegypsy's mother maintains a silver salver for the appropriate purpose.:ok:

O-D You are right with the club info ..... up to a point! Stradling again:" ...... and there must be no other wording unless the officer is a member of a recognized club, when the name of such club may be inserted in small script in the bottom left-hand corner. (A sports club does not come within the category of recognized clubs.)"

I just love that last sentence in brackets!!

[BEagle]

....the rest of those who play a part in making the village tick.

But if they start talking about "...the greater good", leg it sharpish!

If, rather than some 'mwah mwah' air kissing nonsense, the hostess chooses to shake your hand and then compliments you on how warm it is, do NOT reply (as one Wg Cdr once did) "They should be, madam, I've just been scratching my arse!" Mind you, that was to some trollop in a Newquay pub.

If brave try:

"You have a really lovely arse, Mrs (pongo)"
"I beg your pardon, young man?"
"I said what a lovely house you have - and such a pretty garden as well!"

[thegypsy]

Methinks that musclemech is now a complete nervous wreck and will
wish he never asked the question.

[Old-Duffer]

Of course it's too late to say 'I really meant engraved' and I am suitably humbled at my error being so publically exposed!

I still have the plate from when I was plain 'Mr' (Plt & Fg Offs) and it sits in a trunk in the attic - perhaps I should get it down and get some cards done!! By time I had passed my 'B' Exam (that really shows my age) things were a sight more relaxed.

I liked the bit about the two cards in the Mess on arrival and two on departure. Calling on Mrs CO and for those married, no other wife would visit until one's wife and you had called on Mrs CO; all good stuff along with 'treating', tipping one's batman, blue & white mess kit waistcoats, ladies only allowed in the bar on certain nights, sports jackets/blazers on Wednesdays and at weekends (suits all other nights).

At my OCTU, one of the instructors ate a dinner 'by numbers' whilst another instructor pointed out to the assembled cadet body the finer points of table manners (push the soup spoon away and draw the cereal spoon towards, no peas on the knife, finish a mouthful before charging the fork). We then went through the; 'introduce the man to the lady, junior to senior, etc'. Never discuss religion, politics or ladies in the mess and so it goes on!

Happy Days.

O-D

[Neptunus Rex]

Old-Duffer, no need to apologise, I think teeteringhead is a trifle confused. Of course, the copper plate is engraved, then when the card is inserted between the plates, it becomes embossed.

[chopd95]

Whilst Stradling was of course the Bible, does anyone recall "Notes for the Guidance of Flight Cadets"? This thread prompted an attic search but to no avail.

IIRC there was a section on appropriate dress that prescribed that sports jackets, to be worn on Wednesdays (sports afternoon) and weekends, should be of a certain length, but that one should "avoid the theatrical" !

Sqnd Ldr R.......n, he of the Alvis and Regiment / Navigator fame, was so unimpressed with our dining habits that he too had a formal place setting laid before him, and gave us instruction on correct use of the eating utensils! Was it he or Stradling who said that there was no harm in an officer once taking a litttle more drink than was wise - so that he would then know his limit and never again exceed it !!!

As for lounge suits, let us not forget that one was required to have a "tweed" suit for semi formal weekend occasions and non-uniform church attendance!

Permission from OC to marry? and many more

Where else would one see a cravat worn these days other than at breakfast one weekend each year in College Hall ?! Indeed where else would one sit down to breakfast at the same table with whatever is the collective noun for a group of ACMs !

Happy days indeed, and all rather splendid in its way

[BEagle]

...does anyone recall "Notes for the Guidance of Flight Cadets"?

Ah yes, a splendid document clearly written by some grammar school oik intent on attempting to prove that he was from other than an oikish background. It included the requirement to wear a hat (yes, really!) in Lincoln, Sleaford or Grantham whilst 'off-duty'...:rolleyes: Hence Retford and Newark were quite popular. Burning the sodding hat was a ritual we university-destined ex-Flt Cdts-suddenly-APOs of 99 Entry enjoyed hugely.

When one returned to Towers after a short 4 year sojourn up at University, one amusing paper distributed to us was clearly aimed at those of even lower-than-grammar school origin. It almost mentioned that peas were not to be eaten off the knife, but whichever idiot wrote it included the comment that '...foods such as frogs' legs or snails may be eaten with the fingers'. Clearly the nouveau idiot had never eaten a snail; these are normally served at roughly one degree cooler than nuclear plasma and would cause second degree burns if eaten with the fingers.

It was really quite fun winding up the appallingly working class oiks who passed as Flt Cdrs in the early days of the GE system - one 17GE student pilot actually outranked his ex-Henlow Supply Officer Flt Cdr, but was polite enough not to force the issue! The Royal Air Force College had indeed been rather splendid a mere few years earlier!

[chopd95]

Now as to hats.....

89 entry has a website in which they erroneously claim to have been the last entry to have been required to wear them! We are of course talking trilby etc not SD.

IIRC there was a gash felt trilby "squadron hat" pinned to the noticeboard as " emergency kit" for anyone wishing to venture into Sleaford etc

Beags, as one of those grammar school oiks it was all very touching !!

As has been said, Royal Marine officers are either public school boys wantind to be hooligans, or hooligans wanting to be public school boys !!

[chopd95]

As to dining etiquette, once had the privilege to be invited into a top table VVIP lunch at Luqa, ( I was spotted by a wheel who knew me and there was an unforgiveable empty seat at the tpop table). Whitebait was served, ACM Sir Charles Foxley- Norris noticed the disquiet of all who were baffled as to how one should approach the dish, he looked around and said "well i don't know either, gentlemen, lets just pick em up end eat 'em" !!

[Pontius Navigator]

Pshaw to "embossed", I'm disappointed in you PN, and particularly you O-D. ;););)


Why? What did I say wrong?

I said beware of the plastic embossed sort. I did not advocate plastic nor embossing.

[Pontius Navigator]

It included the requirement to wear a hat (yes, really!) in Lincoln, Sleaford or Grantham whilst 'off-duty'...:rolleyes:

In our case it was in Cirencester. I have no idea what happened to the green tyrolean monstrosity c/w feather but the flat hat to be wron with a sports jacket is still kicking around and approaching its half-century.

The leather band is now all but detached but it serves its purpose of disguising the mozzie landing ground and sparing it from scratches etc when down the orchard.

[thegypsy]

BEagle no doubt those grammar school oiks were the reason at South Cerney they had lessons in how to hold a knife and fork properly , something that once upon a time would never have been necessary.

[musclemech]

Thank you gentlemen, both for the laughs, and for the advice!!!

The alarm bells are certainly ringing but as I haven't sent my 'Regrets', I guess we are now committed.... The present Mrs MM (doffs hat to Mr Wogan) is now a nervous wreck!!

One thing, am I correct in assuming that this is a social gathering not just Mrs MM and me? At least if there is a large number of guests I can check out there mirror without being noticed....

MM

ps Hampshire darling, Hampshire; not Berks!

[Old-Duffer]

... I was 'stepping out' with a lady whose housemate was engaged to a guy on one of the GE courses. I was duly invited by my friend to escort her to the aforesaid engagement party.

Inevitably, the 'studes' at some stage were gathered round their flt cdr, who was holding forth on some subject or another and whilst the studes were too polite (afraid?) to disagree with the flt cdr's view, I had no such inhibitions and recall comprehensively demolishing his position, in what I thought was a very reasonable and polite way - this being a social event.

Unfortunately, said flt cdr took umbrage and said to me. "Don't you usually address an IOT flt cdr as - Sir"? "No" says I "and certainly not since I clocked up two years seniority as a squadron leader". I've no idea what happened next, as I just left him to sort out what might remain of his dignity and went off to dance with the lady. I did, however, feel rather a smug sh?t .

[BEagle]

MM, if the ex-Pongo and his memsahib have any class whatsoever (which does NOT mean snobbery), they will make anyone they've invited feel entirely welcome, so Mrs MM should not harbour any concerns and she can just relax.

It would be highly unlikely for an invitation to Mrs ex-Pongo's At Home to be restricted to just one couple; there'll probably be about a dozen others present, I would guess.

Mind you, I was once at a small military dinner when I noticed a colleague looking rather flushed and nervous. He later explained that the reason for his distress was that Mrs Bwigadier, whilst presenting an outwardly coy innocence, had been running her hand up his inner thigh (and beyond); it turns out that it was something she often used to do at such occasions in order to get the Bwigadier's sap to rise....:\

[radar101]

Staff job at Bentley Priory in the early 90s: The whole office gets invites from the Gp Capt to dinner with him and Mrs Gp Capt. "...Dress: informal..."

After diverse discussions, I was deputed to ask him exactly what this meant.

He leant across to the bookshelf and took out his copy of Debrettes and said: "Formal is Dinner Suit so informal is obviously lounge suits" -and so it was, much to all our wives' amazement.

[Melchett01]

Don't forget to put your club on the card rather than anything common like an address.

I take it you don't mean putting Arsenal in the corner? It would be real faux pas if the lady of the house turned out to be a Spurs fan. Of course, you could always play safe and put Wimbledon; at least they might think you were talking about Lawn Tennis.

And what's the latest on hats? I hear that the flat cap is somewhat 'on trend' this autumn. I assume that you are referring to some other sort of head gear or should I pop up in to the loft and see if I can find my grandfather's old flat cap which I think is in a box somewhere. Would hate to be under-dressed for a social occasion.

[minigundiplomat]

I find hoovering the hosts single malt, whilst talking loudly about methods of preventing the great unwashed from migrating into the country from the inner cities a worthwhile opening gambit in rural Hampshire.

Funny thing is, I only ever get invited once..............



maybe it's because all future correspondence has 'RESTRAINING ORDER' written in the top left hand corner, and no mention of clubs in the bottom left hand corner.


Although to be fair, I don't think the restraining order refers to my opening gambit. I'm pretty sure it may have been my return from the lavatory, naked except for a necktie, shouting 'whoop whoop, you're a very foxy lady Mrs Frobisher' as I licked my lips and tossed a set of Vauxhall Corsa keys into the centre of the lounge.

I also have some recollection of a spaniel and polythene, but that bit is a little hazy!

[Melchett01]

MGD,

If Mrs Frobisher was a typical country type, then I very much doubt she will have been perturbed by the sight of you swaggering back into the room naked save for a tie. At least you had the good grace to be wearing a tie.

I think you will find it was the sight of the Corsa keys that did for you. Please tell me you didn't take an MT car?

[Union Jack]

ACM Sir Charles Foxley-Norris noticed the disquiet of all who were baffled as to how one should approach the dish, he looked around and said "well i don't know either, gentlemen, lets just pick em up end eat 'em" !!

Reminds me of the story about how the USAF were very concerned about the social consequences of Air Chief Marshal Sir Christopher Foxley paying a VIP visit to the US accompanied by a Lady Norris!:uhoh:

Jack

[cargosales]

Don't fancy going to a poncy 'At Home' do? Then just use the George Bernard Shaw (I'm sure it was he) method of replying to such an invitation:

Some Lady Poncenby-Smythe type sent GBS a 'Lady Poncenby-Smythe will be At Home on blah date' invitation.

to which the good man replied 'GBS will be likewise' ;)

CS

[sisemen]

A hat was still on the joining instructions for OCTU at Henlow in '76. Never wore it once :{

[Barksdale Boy]

Cigarettes only from a cigarette case, never from a packet.

Times certainly have changed. Yesterday evening I attended a talk given by Peter Mandelson. He was wearing brown shoes with a blue suit. Can one believe it? In all other respects he gave a most polished performance.

[Neptunus Rex]

Ah, cravats. A very comfortable, yet smart casual piece of kit. Quite popular in the '60s until the emergent homosexualists adopted them, so the rest of us got rid of them. Shame.

[Old-Duffer]

Minigun, old chap, it wasn't the Vauxhall Corsa keys that did for you, it was the tie! Really old fellow, a Guards tie is fine, cavalry regiment even better but NOT - definitely NOT - Royal Pioneer Corps; the lady would have taken you for a navvy.

Anyway, this Thread needs a conclusion idc and it can only be a Post Action Report on how it all went. Ideally, endorsements from the host/hostess and the Mrs would add the verisimilitude to give authenticity to the account.

O-D

[alisoncc]

Don't know about clubs in the bottom left hand corner.
but it's really cool to give your static IP Address there these days. That's only if you are happy to be considered a Geek though. :}

[charliegolf]

I also have some recollection of a spaniel and polythene, but that bit is a little hazy!

Bet Rover remembers it though! :ok:

CG

[thegypsy]

Neptunus Rex

I have to agree with your comments regarding cravats. They would make the current trend of trendies who wear suits without ties look a little less scruffy. I hear they are having a bit of a comeback like caps and not just with our pinky friends.

[BEagle]

Cravats? A bit Edward Fox / Terry Thomas and something of the louche lounge lizard about the wearers, surely?

"Hello, helllo, hello, Mrs (pongo) - I say, ding dong, woof woof, eh what?"

The Spams, who of course have no class, refer to them as 'ascots', it seems. Remember the 'Nuke 'em Now' SAC Command Crew comics of the 1970s with photos of subterranean missile geeks in flying suits? Always with some garish neckware...not even tied properly, but 'ready made' with a fastener at the back of the neck :eek:. Certain sartorial suicide if you're ever caught wearing one of those; even worse than a ready made bow tie!

[Pontius Navigator]

MM, if the ex-Pongo and his memsahib have any class whatsoever (which does NOT mean snobbery), they will make anyone they've invited feel entirely welcome, so Mrs MM should not harbour any concerns and she can just relax.

Quite right me old, what you missed though is that Mr & Mrs MM live in th evillage and presumably don't want this to be their last social occasion as well.

[Wander00]

Anyone remember the single-ended bow ties issued at Cranwell in the sixties - now there was a challenge to tie!

[chopd95]

Ah indeed - worn with some abomination of No1 uniform and white shirt at junior mess dining in nights? - didn't stay tied for long!!

The other "uniform abomination" in v early days was some strange combination of issue shoes, issue collar detached shirt and tie, and civilian jacket / trousers - worn until the hairy blue battledress arrived !

[BEagle]

I certainly do! Horrible things - along with the joys of the white waistcoat and wing collar which were still around in the 1970s!

[ian16th]

Tie it around your thigh!

As many attempts as necessary to get it right.

Slide it down your leg and over your foot.

At the back of the knot, stitch it permanently in position.

Cut the neckband.

Stitch Velcro of the two ends.

You now have a presentable, correctly tied bow tie, that is simple to put on and take off. :ok:

By the way, a smashing thread.

[November4]

"Hello, helllo, hello, Mrs (pongo) - I say, ding dong, woof woof, eh what?"

Is that not MGD's chat up line to the spaniel?

[BEagle]

You now have a presentable, correctly tied bow tie, that is simple to put on and take off.Yes, great idea - it'll ensure that you have to buy the first round ever afterwards!

Hairy blue battledress - what a joy that was. The sandpapering effect of which was the only reason to wear 'shreddies' (over one's normal underpants) to avoid third degree thigh chafing. And wasn't sewing sqn/entry gorgette patches onto the blouse lapels such fun...

The true 'lunatic' outfit was worn by all junior entry Flt Cdts (except those on Sov Sqn) when it was their turn to assemble on the JMPG prior to marching over to the North Airfield armed with brooms to clean out the Senior Entry garage on Saturday mornings. Pale blue tracksuits, CWW boots....and topped with the 'civilian hat'...:sad:

If you couldn't take a joke.....

[ShyTorque]

No no no no no no - not embossed but engraved. That is to say, made by an engraver chappie carving a copper plate to be used.

Real printers' ink too, so the indentation of the engraving gives the printing a raised nature which can be detected (as can its absence) by the surreptitious running of a fingernail across the card under investigation.

Pshaw to "embossed", I'm disappointed in you PN, and particularly you O-D.

Printed, embossed, engraved, chiselled, or whatever .....my card was marked from the start......:(

Teeters, don't know why, but all your theatricals here suddenly sparked a scary memory of you wearing a bright red soldier's uniform, playing a leading role in an open air play. "Far from the Madding crowd", I think it was, must have been 1984!

Siseman,

A hat was still on the joining instructions for OCTU at Henlow in '76. Never wore it once

I wore mine once, got told never again. It was a Derby County bobble hat with a pom-pom, an' all. Bastards; must have supported some other team.

(P.s. You and I must have been at OCTU around the same time, 310 course in my case :cool: ).

[Matoman]

Reading some of these recollections takes me back to one memorable gathering at the married quarter of a rather straight-laced Wg Cdr and his American wife. The ‘fun detector’ and myself arrived at the appointed hour and proceeded to mingle and make the usual small talk with the other guests.

Drinks and nibbles were distributed and everything was following the usual predicable pattern when a loud Scottish voice in the hall preceded the arrival in the room of ‘Jock’ a flight lieutenant who always had an opinion on everyone and everything. It was obvious that his rather downtrodden wife had failed in her attempts to keep him off the sauce prior to the event and he quickly started hoovering down additional gin & tonics. Before long he was leering down the cleaverage of the wing commanders wife, spilling food on the carpet and drink down his shirt. You could see people trying their best to ignore what was happening and also shuffling around the room so as not to get trapped by him when he lurched in their direction. Eventually, much to everyone’s relief, he sat down on a sofa to leer at one of the younger wives and then slowly but surely his head fell to one side and he slipped into a deep sleep, with a line of drool slowly running down the corner of his mouth.

The drinks, nibbles and small talk continued much as before, with everyone doing their best to ignore the semi-conscious figure slumped on the sofa. Then end was rather predicable. Having slept for a good 30-40 minutes Jock slowly began to stir into life at a time when there was a slight lull in the conversation. He slowly extended one of his legs whilst at the same time letting out an impressively loud, two octave fart that had sufficient recoil to stir him from his slumbers. He then sat up, looked around, saw his wife looking aghast and announced that it was time for her to take him home.

Easily the most memorable ‘At Home’ I ever attended.

Matoman

[Pontius Navigator]

Always with some garish neckware...not even tied properly, but 'ready made' with a fastener at the back of the neck :eek:. Certain sartorial suicide if you're ever caught wearing one of those; even worse than a ready made bow tie!

Our AEO bought one and got Mrs AE to make up 4 more. Never recall anyone wearing them on QRA :)

[charliegolf]

Bastards; must have supported some other team.


No Shy, EVERYONE supported another team.

CG

PS Golfette just married George Hardy's grandson. Liverpool supporter. Go figure.

[Pontius Navigator]

I certainly do! Horrible things - along with the joys of the white waistcoat and wing collar which were still around in the 1970s!

and the stiff fronted shirt where you needed a nail gun to get the studs in? I think they died out when laundries ran out of starch.

My white mess jacket had been in the sin bin for 10 years when I was posted to Ascension. It came out a shade of brown. Many washes later it was an acceptable shade of off-white. It was then sent to the laundry and came back as soft as a babies ******. Back to the laundry - it is supposed to be starched. It had to be sent from Nairn to Aberdeen an duly came back as an imitation of plasterboard. Still it remained reasonably presentable to the 6 months and innumerable dining-in nights.

[sisemen]

(P.s. You and I must have been at OCTU around the same time, 310 course in my case http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/cool.gif ).

304. Graduated in the summer of 76 when it was so hot that we stood in molten pools of bitumen on the square.

[Canadian Break]

Matoman

Wasn't at High Wycombe in the mid 80's was it. Wg Cdr Nick ???????

CB

[Neptunus Rex]

Matoman
A Wing Commander with an American wife certainly narrows the field. Could it have been the inimitable 'Bang Commander Wizzlegette?'

Had it been, they would both have laughed it off. When he was Staish at ISK, on NYE '67/68, he started a snowball fight with OC 206 in the Officer's Mess Bar!

[teeteringhead]

I think teeteringhead is a trifle confused. ... often happens these days .... particularly when I forget my medication!

Ah Shy - the roar of the greasepaint and the smell of the crowd. 'Twas indeed Madding Crowd and your 1984 is exactly correct. Sgt Frank Troy of an unspecified cavalry regiment was the character - a cad but one with a modicum of style for a SNEC ;). IIRC they gave me different Bathsheba Everdines to play with on alternate nights ....

.... perhaps the "just missing her with the sword" scene would have been too much for them every night ......:ok:

sorry for the thread drift ... so to return to the (slightly less drifty) subject of cravats: one remembers wearing one to a Saturday breakfast in the Mess as a baby JP stude - along with obligatory tweed jacket, tattersall check shirt and cav twill bags.

Unfortunately ones Sqn Cdr (a Woody Allen lookalike) was single and lived in and the following (one-sided) conversation ensued:

"Teeteringhead - I don't think that thing around your neck constitutes a tie within the meaning of Mess Rules ..... GET OUT!"

Yes best beloveds, chucked out of Saturday brekkie for being tie-less ... and ye tell that t't' young folk o' today - an' they'll not believe yer.......:(

[Pontius Navigator]

one remembers wearing one to a Saturday breakfast in the Mess as a baby JP stude - along with obligatory tweed jacket, tattersall check shirt and cav twill bags.

Absolutely right until our staish, one Eric Wright appeared in the anteroom one saturday morning in a cashmere sweater and flat cap - game on.

Cottesmore had been so up its own . . . that the livers-in started to go to dinner of a Saturday night in DJs. The club was 'ferrets are go'. The staff then played up to this and we went from informal to a formal with a set time and menu.

One evening OC Admin turned up in the mess for a swift half, saw everyone in DJs and thought he had missed notification of a formal function so he beat a hasty retreat. Result!

[Melchett01]

Always with some garish neckware

I remember my first tour where we had a rather stuck up Army major as PMC. He was constantly banging on about how standards were slipping and if he had his way etc etc etc, much to the annoyance of the living in JOs and my Boss who had a sense of humour not far off my own.

The run up to the summer ball had been particularly painful, so we decided to get our own back on the PMC. All the JOs - and the sqn boss - turned up to the ball at the same time having had some very fine 'Burberry chav' bow ties, cummerbunds and shawls made up for the ladies. Apoplectic really doesn't do justice to his reaction. Between the 'chav' accessories, the fairy lights that flashed in such a sequence down the length of the main corridor that they were in danger of triggering a full on epileptic fit and the dodgems that went round quick enough to keep the MO busy with cases of whiplash all night, I have to say it stands out as one of the better summer balls I have been to. I still have the photo from the evening in my study.

In fact it was right up there with the Christmas draw where I was duly stitched up by a mate who decided to set me up with a rather attractive, vivacious and very flirtatious older woman who later turned out to be the bomb disposal officer's wife!:\

[chopd95]

PN and DF, excellent moves! As once said by an aide to staish - I wouldn't impose that rule sir, they will quickly find a way to take the p...s !!

That was of course the point, that all enjoyed - of course we will acknowledge the mess rule, but beware of the law of unintended consequences!

White mess kit jacket, starch etc - recall one occasion on a secret med base when mine was delivered to the front door of the mess to meet us driving in from hirings to the dining in night- borrowed shoulder boards in hand, total relief to see the chap there on the steps, slightly abated when found that said jacket was still wet from the laundry - nothing a few brandy sours couldnt deal with!

[Neptunus Rex]

This thread is priceless. I just hope that when Musclemech gives us his detailed report, that the debriefs go on and on.

[Pontius Navigator]

chopd - socks :)

[chopd95]

Cyprus early 70s, combined mess, brekkie time.
All collect choice from buffet, sit down at table. Our hero asks pongo mate (strangely wearing SD hat) to pass the sugar - no response to several polite requests, said gentleman from whichever guards wegiment eventually lowers his newspaper and replies " do you not know that we have a tradition in the wegiment that when an officer wears his SD hat at breakfast he does not wish to be spoken to", our hero ponders for a while, then climbs onto the table , steps into wuperts plate with his combat boots, and replies "we have a tradition in the royal marines that if I stamp in your effin cornflakes I want the effin sugar" !

[Benzimra]

Neptunus Rex:

A Wing Commander with an American wife certainly narrows the field. Could it have been the inimitable 'Bang Commander Wizzlegette?'

Had it been, they would both have laughed it off. When he was Staish at ISK, on NYE '67/68, he started a snowball fight with OC 206 in the Officer's Mess Bar!

Sure you got the date right NR? 206 lost an aircraft & 13 souls December 21st 1967. Surely no high jinks that year?

Benzimra

[Neptunus Rex]

Benzimra
The date is correct.To avoid thread drift, I'll send you a PM.

[Jetex_Jim]

What exactly does an 'At Home' for drinks afternoon entail, and what dress would be appropriate (for me and for Mrs MM).

Undoubtedly, Lederhosen and Dirndl.

[sisemen]

Got chatting to an Army major in a pongo mess not so far from a very secret NBC establishment that rhymes with Horton. Typical Army mess, obligatory black labs dotted about the dining room. Said chap opened up his mess bill for the month and gently complained about the additional costs for crockery. To me it was a staggering amount. I queried why he'd been charged it.

His answer? He had one of the stewards chucking dinner plates out the back of the mess in lieu of clay pigeons!

[Old-Duffer]

Now that MM has benefitted from our collective wisdom and experience, it's time for the REHEARSAL!! I suggest we all assemble at MMs and go through the process under the watchful eye of the station warrant officer or similar.

Come on MM, you didn't think all this advice was free did you???

[Pontius Navigator]

O-D, that reminds me, we went round to one house but while there were lots of people there was precious little space.

Wearing a sports jacket it was easy to slip one's empty glass in while eating the nosh of a plate and recovering same when the bottle came around.

I also had a niffty little gadget lifted from ISK. It clipped on your plate to hold your glass. Plastic unfortunately, now silver would have been much better.

Oh and don't forget MM, you need two sparkling clean white linen hankerchiefs, and may be a third if you need to blow your nose.

[BEagle]

I also had a niffty little gadget lifted from ISK. It clipped on your plate to hold your glass. Plastic unfortunately...

Dear me, how appallingly nouveau. The art of holding a plate and glass in one hand, with perhaps a fork in the other, is something one learns in one's early teens if one is 'brung up proper'....:\

A plastic clip indeed - what sort of wretched peasant would ever use something so vulgar?

[Pontius Navigator]

When I said I had, I should perhaps have said the Mess at ISK issued . . .

Any way vulgar surely doesn't apply as far north as ISK.

I remember going to the 'Summer' Ball one year. Fortunately a had a full set of those awful green waterproofs and a pair of wellies in the car. I dropped Mrs PN off at the carriage drop off point and parked the car in the 'car' park which ws swimming in 6 inches of water.

I should have kept the boots on as the sea was well into the sea food tent too.

[teeteringhead]

I also had a niffty little gadget lifted from ISK. It clipped on your plate to hold your glass. Plastic unfortunately, now silver would have been much better. ... problem I always found with those is that when one drank from the glass, the food would slide onto the floor ......:ugh:

[Jellybrain]

106 course IOT Flight Commander invites his flight to his new home in December for nibbles and career chat/get to know you better evenings. Our course commander now Group Captain I believe, leads our little band of chaps to said house up garden path. Door answered and course commander demonstrates how to enter house with stiff hand shake to flight commander and promptly strides down hallway to introduce himself to the wife. Rest of us jaws to ground on door step as along corridor foot shaped lumps of dog s**t follow course commander over the brand new carpet. Flight commander's lab had been very busy earlier in the evening!! My sides still hurt when I think about that evening.

[Roadster280]

A plastic clip indeed - what sort of wretched peasant would ever use something so vulgar?

An RAF officer, apparently.

The stereotypes being played out on this thread may perhaps have a ring of truth after all.

[Neptunus Rex]

What is the date for this celebrated 'At Home?'
We are all agog waiting for the debrief.

[Old-Duffer]

......... to the next problem.

Hold Plate - hands required = one
Hold Glass - hands required = one
Eat Finger snack buffet/fork supper - hands required = one
Shake hands with other guests - hands required = one (See Note 1)

Note: 1

Total hands involved to wipe 'buffet stained' fingers of one hand before shaking hands with guest = two

If God had meant us to go to supper parties he would have given us four hands.

During the scoffing phase, I always try to position myself near to a table, window ledge or somesuch - problem arises when these are at the opposite end of the room to the drinks table!

Other problem is the current Mrs O-D (and all her predecessors) have an unfortunate knack of waiting 'till I'm about to tuck in before asking for a topup, regardless as to how recently I offered to recharge their glass - I think this is a girl thing, as most males of the species seem to get the glass recharged and then think about the food.

You know, guys and girls, until this thread started, I never realised how difficult it is to be a social lion! These are things Stradling never told us about.

O-D

[Melchett01]

O-D,

It's quite simple my dear chap.

Holding glass - one hand
Holding plate full of food - one hand

Shaking hands with other guests shouldn't be an issue - they will all have their hands full; a firm nod of the head accompanied by a choice salutation will see you past that hurdle.

As for needing a fourth hand for eating the buffet / fork supper - have you never heard of Korean rules - hands not required!

Of course, if the O-P has recently come back from ops, he will have been issued with a Camelbak hydration system. There's nothing in the rules that says you have to put water in it; indeed, if you add some ice, you could have a couple of litres of very nicely chilled G&T to see you through the evening.

How you deal with your good lady's rather inappropriate timing is unfortunately not one that I can advise on. May I suggest some sort of training programme - perhaps you can invoke some sort of Pavlovian response so you can ensure she only asks for a top-up at your convenience?

Oh and who / what the hell is this Stradling sort?

[Old-Duffer]

Melchett01,

Thank you for your advice above, I'd never thought of the old hydration pack as being a party accessory - how clever of you. Do they come with separate compartments, allowing one to preload; say - G&T, red wine, fruit juice etc? Mind you as long as they're not as complicated as the Jaguar fuel system, we should be OK.

Regarding the training of the distaff. Previous Mrs O-Ds are no longer a problem (well not in this regard anyway). The current Mrs O-D was a senior female officer who was chucked out of the SAS for cruelty before she latched onto me - well actually, I latched onto her and I found the nearer she got to her 38/16 pension point the more attractive she became. She is not amenable to being told by me to do anything. It has been tried but with a singular lack of success. I am resigned to:
a. leaving her at home when in the party mood.
b. accepting the inevitable.
c. running a spoof and pretending to get the food, at which point she asks for a running refuel and then getting the scoff.
d. playing on the old 'war wound' scam and hoping someone takes pity on me and helps out.

O-D

[minigundiplomat]

Hold Plate - hands required = one
Hold Glass - hands required = one
Eat Finger snack buffet/fork supper - hands required = one
Shake hands with other guests - hands required = one (See Note 1)


Reminds me of an occasion in a Tromso noodle bar at 3am after a rather A level run ashore whilst away with the RN.

Several crewmen/pilots get their late night fix of noodles and are spotted by Carrier XO and entourage who join them at table.

One of the crewmen was struggling with the mechanics of eating politely, so empties plate onto table top, positions mouth at one end of table and pushes noodles along table and into mouth in one go. Never seen jaws drop so quickly.

For everything else, there is Mastercard.

This thread is great!

[musclemech]

I'm now more worried that the post contact report will fall below expectations, than actually going!!!

D-Day is 5 Dec. I will endeavour to complete said report after the event, but I suspect that I will need to write it soon afterwards, while still under the influence of (hopefully) lots of red wine, so that it may somehow achieve the entertainment levels this thread deserves...

MM

[Neptunus Rex]

Old Duffer
Me Dear Chap, the solution you seek is in your own words:
During the scoffing phase, I always try to position myself near to a table, window ledge or somesuch - problem arises when these are at the opposite end of the room to the drinks table! Simply invest a few minutes to get two or three glasses onto your window ledge, then stand in front, masking them. When the Memsahib calls "Bingo" it's there at hand.

Many moons ago I was a guest of Hawker Siddeley at Farnborough. Our hosts, the Woodford boys, knew the ropes, and knew that the (complementary) bar would close at 1400, just as the flying started. So, at 1345 they organised the six of us in the party to take our seats, then, one at a time to get a round in. We started the flying display with six fully-charged glasses under each seat!

[BEagle]

It's quite simple my dear chap.

Holding glass - one hand
Holding plate full of food - one hand

Bally oik! The reason why the Untermensch seem to have so many problems with the simple art of managing a plate, glass and fork in one hand is quite simple....

Greed.

One should never pile up one's plate in such a vulgar manner, so it is quite simple to hold the left edge of the plate between thumb and middle finger of the left hand; with the third and fourth fingers normally relieving the load. The stem of one's glass is safely held between thumb and index finger when necessary, provided that one hasn't been an utter oik and loaded one's plate inappropriately.

The fork is held in the right hand with glass and plate controlled by the left hand; however, if one needs to shake hands (which would be unusual as all guests should have been introduced to each other long before canapes are served), then it can easily be held under the plate between fourth and fifth fingers..... The same technique may be used when the right hand is needed for drinking; alternatively the fork may be rested upon the plate.

The skills developed by such dexterity (or rather, sinisterity) will become very useful when flying HOTAS aeroplanes; however, of even greater importance is the fact that skilled fingers are much appreciated by the ladies... Oooh yes, sir, they do indeed appreciate such skills....:E

[Melchett01]

One should never pile up one's plate in such a vulgar manner

You obviously lack the explorers' instinct. Never turn down a free meal - you don't know where the next one might be coming from.

Plus, a plate full of nosh helps take the edge off the effects of the gallons of booze that any self-respecting officer needs to consume before going after a horsey country type that one finds at these events. Especially if said horsey type happens to be the daughter of the lady of the house and you sense you have been ambushed.

[Rossian]

....this evolution used to be an integral part of passing the course on the vicars OCU at Amport House. Unless executed with aplomb - recourse!!

The Ancient Mariner

[Pontius Navigator]

MM,

I forgot, as well as the 3 hankerchiefs Mrs MM needs 2 pairs of shoes. One for the cocktail party and one for the walk home.

You pick up the car the next day.

I say drive there as there is nothing funnier (if you are an observer) watching the lady standing on one foot trying to put on a pair of strappy high heels outside in the wind :)

[chopd95]

Beagle, if I may say so, a most eloquent and erudite exposition of the essential art.
"Plastic device" - is that not something the memsahib might make use of in the bedchamber whilst one is away from base ?

[Old-Duffer]

............. PN's last post has reminded me.

You can strike an immediate score of 'one up' by arriving by taxi or better still - 'limo' (but not the stretched variety). Loudly referring to limo driver by his surname, you ask Mrs Bloggs where your man can find the servants quarters so that he might take a humble repast with her own 'below stairs' staff. You see, those hours spent watching 'Downton Abbey' haven't been wasted after all.

As to your host, MM, a trip to a decent library should bring forth a copy of the Army List and its 'retired' equivalent, which will provide some background to the colonel. As rare as hens' teeth is the Army List Part III. This contains short biographies of Army officers and is exceptionally useful in getting up to speed with one's host. BUT a grave danger looms here: WE'VE ALL ASSUMED THE COLONEL IS ARMY : HE MIGHT BE ROYAL MARINES .... arrgh!!!!!!!!!!!

O-D

[Pontius Navigator]

You also assumed the Army Officer was a Colonel.

Now I met a charming ex-Army officer who was Captain. Could have behaved like any common or garden major even. :}

[BEagle]

"Plastic device" - is that not something the memsahib might make use of in the bedchamber whilst one is away from base ?

chopd95, one should never be so coarse as to make assumptions about the manner by which a memsahib might amuse herself whilst solo.... The '20 west' rule works both ways!
You can strike an immediate score of 'one up' by arriving by taxi or better still - 'limo' (but not the stretched variety). Loudly referring to limo driver by his surname, you ask Mrs Bloggs where your man can find the servants quarters so that he might take a humble repast with her own 'below stairs' staff No, no, a thousand times no! To behave in such a manner would be deplorably Cheshire. Imagine how your host's other guests would feel if you tried to flaunt such an inappropriate display of wealth in their faces... Besides, any chauffeur wouldn't need to be told where the staff pantry was to be found - he would instinctively know.

To arrive by taxi would mark you out as either a freeloading lush or someone incapable of maintaining sufficient will power to moderate their alcohol intake with respect to their responsibilities. Your host would normally have made sufficient provision for those who need to drive home later.

The biggest crime one can commit at such events is that of pretending to be something one is not. Honesty is the best policy and will neither embarrass your host, nor your partner nor yourself.

'Class' and 'manners' are most assuredly not synonymous! Just be polite, be yourself and be happy!

[newfieboy]

MM

Look forward to the debrief, in the meantime may I suggest some re runs of Jeeves and Wooster,plenty to be found on utube.....may just give you some ideas....:DAlso please take a minute to watch the link I have added. Should give you a good idea on what to expect.......at an "At home":ok:YouTube - Ripping Yarns S2E03 - Roger of the Raj - Part 02 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s2FshRUgwQ)

[chopd95]

Oh dear oh dear, a colonial posting on an etiquette thread !

We must make allowances?

One must hope he at least is aware of "planters rig" ?

[Pontius Navigator]

Oh dear oh dear, a colonial posting on an etiquette thread !

We must make allowances?

One must hope he at least is aware of "planters rig" ?

Colonial yes, knowledgeable of planters' rig no. The latter is terribly Somerset Maughan dear boy and not lumber jackesque.

BEagles. was 20 West something that crept in in your later life? It use to by 8 West, the Shanwick boundary, although Ballykelly and Limavardy did stretch that a bit :}

[newfieboy]

chopd95

I say old chap.....is not, one assuming, classed as bad ettiquette....:= ....The way the Motherland seems to be going, Colonial seems a good option...surely as long as one doesn;t forget being born British and doing all those terribly British, things like being packed off to prep and public school from the age of about 8....and spending some time in HM;s employ.....pip pip.....:ok: One is awefully busy trying to act like a Colonial these days......:ugh:

[Pontius Navigator]

newfieboy, :D, we had an RCAF EO, might remember the name, after the CAF had gone into green and then the air whatever back into blue, our EO always appeared at dining-in nights in tights. No BEages, not those tights, rather smart tights with the broad gold stripe down the leg.

He also brought a dual-purpose bottle of Drambuie to the table. A wonderful example of a true officer and gentleman.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Probably the most amusing part of this thread is the contributions of those sad sorry individuals who have not realised that time really really has moved on and the Mess, which ever variant you subscribed to is no longer as it was, thank **** :p:p:p

[Two's in]

The age old problem of too many comestibules in combination with a glass of something has been neatly solved in the latest "Sky Mall" in flight magazine. Musclemech, here is your chance to be the talk of the party by using this nifty little gadget...

http://dvice.com/pics/wine-necklace.jpg

[ShyTorque]

Two's in,

here is your chance to be the talk of the party by using this nifty little gadget...

Yes, because when the glass contains a drink, the C of G is above the pivot line.....

I can imagine said wearer bending forwards to introduce himself to a senior sitting guest...."Good afternoon, oh bugger, sorry, vicar!" :p

[Union Jack]

No BEages, not those tights, rather smart tights with the broad gold stripe down the leg.

Known rather quaintly to our military friends as "overalls".

Jack

[Old-Duffer]

Another thought has come to me in the early hours of the morn'.

Perhaps Bloggs is not 'proper' Army, nor Royal Marines but SALVATION ARMY - what then? I only know the first verse of 'Jesus Wants Me For a Sunbeam' so can't help much here.

O-D

[sisemen]

This thread amply demonstrates just how far standards have slipped. There should be no discussion about plastic things and how to balance a plate and a glass.

A steward brings around the nibblies. End of.

One hand with drink, the other for meeting and greeting (or gesticulating if one is of foreign extraction) and occasionally eating when the steward comes around.

[BEagle]

siseman, the discussion centred on 'At Home' etiquette, not cocktail party etiquette.....

'Sky Mall' would appear to be something from the land of obese people who wear clothes made from old office carpets or turquoise crimplene. Thus it has nothing to offer in matters of etiquette.

[goudie]

a dual-purpose bottle of Drambuie

I'm intrigued P N

[Old-Duffer]

Goudie,

I think PN means you drink the stuff in the bottle and when it's empty you use it for .... Oh well never mind (it's a male aircrew thing).

O-D

[Neptunus Rex]

Not just aircrew. Described with great humour by David Niven, then a young army officer, in his autobiography "The Moon's a Balloon."

[Pontius Navigator]

Quite :)






.

[barnstormer1968]

Maybe the colonel in question is not army, marines or salvation army.

Perhaps he makes coated chicken!

In that case, a bootlace tie will be more appropriate than a bow tie.

[sisemen]

the discussion centred on 'At Home' etiquette, not cocktail party etiquette.....



Good Lord. Do people actually have "at home" functions without staff??? Standards appear to have slipped further than I thought.

[teeteringhead]

Perhaps Bloggs is not 'proper' Army, nor Royal Marines but SALVATION ARMY - what then? ... well in that case, at least alcohol won't be a problem!

[davejb]

I think PN means you drink the stuff in the bottle and when it's empty you use it for .... Oh well never mind (it's a male aircrew thing).


I really will have to re-read The Moon's a Balloon, I remember enjoying it immensely some 30 years or so ago!

As for the dual use bottle, there is one small drawback (unintentional pun there I think).... as a survival instructor said many moons ago (MALM East at Finningley, I think) - 'Drink 1 pint, **** one and a half', as has been proved true quite often, usually to the discomfort of the 'first timer'.

Perhaps a better option would be a colostomy bag - senior enough officers probably have them anyway, suitably 'blinged up' to quote the Armstrong and Miller RAF pilot's online manual.

Like MGD I have little experience of social occasions, being a mere SNCO - by definition a complete oik who doubtless would drink the 'Melon Balls in Creme De Menthe' and think 'those ice cubes were a bit squishy'. I look forward to the after action report (form Purple, at least for those in the kipper fleet), so that I may learn from my betters....

I hope the occasion goes well for the TO, and the result is NOT to be joe'd with every flower arranging event from now to doomsday - with any decent luck the Col. will be some sort of ex-hooligan with a fund of funny stories.

Dave

[Old-Duffer]

.... davejb.

You don't need to apologise. There's no such thing as a 'mere SNCO'.

You're as valued as the rest and don't forget it 'else I put you on a fizzer!!!!

[davejb]

Thankyou,
I should have said 'ex SNCO', I are a mere skuleteecher these days.

SNCOs vary tremendously, as do the guys in every rank from AC to ACM. I was extremely good and helpful at times, extremely annoying and useless at others - to an extent this depended on who I was dealing with....

Like many SNCOs I was always absolutely sure that I was the equal of anyone I met, but I have to confess my social skills were (and perhaps still are) a bit inclined towards the Del Boy end of the scale - on one memorable evening at the Naval Attache's house in Athens, whilst attempting to be suave and sophisticated, I chatted to the lady of the house for quite some time before glancing down to see my tie well immersed in my horse's neck..... Some of us are born, frankly, to play out in real life the cornier scenes of a 1950's Carry On film....

Dave

[Neptunus Rex]

Blimey! Must have been a decent sized glass of Brandy & Ginger if it took the end of your tie. That's hospitality.

[Pontius Navigator]

As for the dual use bottle, there is one small drawback (unintentional pun there I think).... as a survival instructor said many moons ago (MALM East at Finningley, I think) - 'Drink 1 pint, **** one and a half', as has been proved true quite often, usually to the discomfort of the 'first timer'.

A colostomy bag is a good idea but unnecessary. While your 1:1.5 rule is undoubtedly true it assumes that he selfishly emptied the contents unassisted. As he had two neighbours with 3 opposite and was a typically generous colonial, 1 into 1 certainly went. I hasten to add, the bottle was only passed around during its first iteration.

[thegypsy]

Musclemech

You quite clearly have not been paying attention. On no account do you turn up and ask for a red wine. The Colonel will immediately think you are totally unsuited to reside in this rural idyll. No No No.You ask for a large 25year Malt Whisky. It would help if you could reel off a few makes in order not to embarrass the Colonel on your first " at home" in case his cellar is somewhat limited.

On no account should you add lemonade just in case you were thinking of that.:rolleyes:

If you require any help and further advice do not hesitate to ask as we ALL want this to be an experience you will never forget which will propel you into Hampshire society.

PS

Whilst writing this I am enjoying a glass of BRUICHLADDICH but I have to admit it is only 15 years old.

[Pontius Navigator]

If you require any help and further advice do not hesitate to ask as we ALL want this to be an experience you will never forget which will propel you into Hampshire society.

we ALL want this to be an experience we will never forget.

Remember to keep off the beer before you go, pump ship, and try and hold on for an hour or so. The 'Colonel' may or may not have beer on offer. If he asks what you would like try and pick something that someone else is already drinking.

At one function in India I asked for a beer as it was hot and I wanted a bit more liquid. The delay became clear later when the guy got back from th shops having been out to buy the beer.

OTOH, in Cyprus, when we asked for wine (in a restaurant) they had to go to the supermarket to buy it. :\

[davejb]

OTOH, in Cyprus, when we asked for wine (in a restaurant) they had to go to the supermarket to buy it.

The donkey they normally filtered the wine through must have been ill that night!

(I assume that's why virtually everything in Cyprus was an 'acquired taste' that one developed after lengthy exposure). Duc De Nicosie champagne tasted like soda water, most of everything else tasted of resin, whilst the local whisky was suitable as a firelighting fluid. Oddly enough I could never make a decent brandy sour with 'normal' brandy, I eventually used up my duty free allowance on one trip to bring home a bottle of Keo brandy specifically so I could make a brandy sour that tasted just right.

One very wet and cold Christmas out there on a Nimdet that rather stretched beyond a joke (and well beyond our originally forecast return date) I bought a gallon of Keo brandy and started a BBQ party with the aid of a case of Coke from the mess, an oil drum and a few local trees - over several days various fellow celebrants donated more brandy and coke, and (occasionally) 'this tree that I just happened to find over by the zobs' transit block' so the party went on for quite a while.

It went on so long that, one rainy day, as the fire engine went past again (there had been quite a lot of that, our officers were a dreadful bunch who kept igniting things, getting into trouble, and generally letting the side down) and the staish followed it in his mini. He stopped at the roadside about 20 ft away and gave me what I thought was a rather cold look, frankly, considering it was the festive season and all, before driving off to follow the fire crew. Perhaps if I hadn't been so enthusiastically ramming his tree into the fiery oil drum he might have seen it in a more gentle light.

Dave

[Pontius Navigator]

whilst the local whisky was suitable as a firelighting fluid.

Thread really drifting :)

They made Whiskey? If you meant Brandy only the 5* would work, anything less than 5* was non-flammable.

[davejb]

Apologies for continued thread drift -
No, whisky - whilst Keo brandy was potable, their whisky was not - it was a clear, colourless liquid....looked like Vodka, burned like poor quality paraffin. Pip Witts (vernable and venerated pipe smoking wet man) was given a bottle once as some sort of present (I cannot remember what it was meant to commemorate) and he quite sensibly tested its flammability in preference to drinking any.

Mind you, Pip always drank G&T anyway.

Back onto thread, it seems I DO have some advice for the Op, if the Col offers you a Keo whisky DO NOT DRINK IT.
Dave

[Bertie Thruster]

Address would be good. We know the date. I love a good party.

[Neptunus Rex]

Musclemech
Please, please let us know the date if this auspicious event, so that we can look forward to the dénoument.
It also means that we can plan to include some more anecdotes for this great thread.

[thegypsy]

NR You have not been paying attention either. MM has told us that D Day is Dec 5th. Are you free that day for some gate crashing?:E

I think personally that MM has been somewhat uncivil in not giving us the time and exact place of this " at home" because this rural backwater sounds as if it could do with some extra umphh from some of us who have a little more experience of these kind of events compared to musclemech who I suspect has led a slightly more sheltered existence than most of us chaps.

[Neptunus Rex]

thegypsy
Oops! I missed the date. Thank you for your kind invitation, it should be a great bash. Unfortunately, Memsahib and I shall be 'At Home' to some old friends that same day, 4,700 nm south-east of Hants. We'll start with a Laphroaig or twain, with cool soda water served separately.

[parabellum]

Now do come on chaps, please don't tell me you haven't graduated to these yet, in England?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/Omark44/clipviewb.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/Omark44/clipviewa_s.jpg

On the subject of good Whisky, I used to visit the distilleries when in Scotland, usually on charters with tourists, the distillers told me that Scotch over twelve years of age stood a good chance of breaking down chemically and was for USA export only!

( I drink Quarter Cask Laphroaig, when I can get it!).

[Old-Duffer]

ParaB

I think your photo is of the 'plastic' device discussed a few post above.

[TheChitterneFlyer]

If you're going to use one of those fancy wine glass holders to your plate then it must be one of these...

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/cortonflyer/WineGlass.jpg

[diginagain]

Have we gone back to the 'one bottle - two uses' bit?

[BEagle]

It would appear to be bottle fitted with a 'WRAF adaptor' for dining-in night emergencies....:ooh:

[Neptunus Rex]

Parabellum
I too was of that school of thought. After 12 years, the 'Angels' Drop,' or evaporation would outdo the extra flavour from being longer in the cask. Then, at a Whisky tasting, I compared my favourite, Lagavulin 12 YO, with Lagavulin 18 YO. The difference was substantial, as both my sons agreed. Being well brought up, in the Celtic tradition, both my boys are connoisseurs of good Malt and good wine, amongst the other finer things in life, and I value their opinions. (Don't always agree, though.)

[Melchett01]

Parabellum,

A swish device, but only required if you're female and / or drink wine. Being a heathen northerner, I prefer to go for beer or shorts. The obvious plus side of this is that a lot of decent beer comes in bottles rather than the usual pint of Carling you get in the Mess, which means you can carry a bottle between the 3rd and 4th fingers whilst carrying your plate of food, not to mention being able to slip a bottle in each of your trouser pockets.

Very handy when you are facing an imminent bar closure. Not sure how well it would go down with the Colonel 'at home' though.

[Neptunus Rex]

Melchett01
You are clearly not of the ilk of your namesake in 'Blackadder.'

Drinking beer out of bottles is an appalling habit the Cousins developed, to help make sure that their drinks, in glasses, were not spiked.

To 'neck' an ale at an "At Home' would display the most dreadful bad manners, and ensure that nobody there would invite you anywhere again.

Perhaps that is your boorish intention?

[Pontius Navigator]

Perhaps that is your boorish intention?

Miawow

Although I agree a real beer needs to be poured to let it breathe a bit and warm up to room temp. But as a caution above, too many beers can have unfortunate side-effects, the least of which is you might deplete said Colonel's beer cellar after a jar or two.

[Wwyvern]

Nep Rex.

Laphroaig is an acquired taste, probably acquired only because it is the only whisky available to drink. I prefer Speyside whiskies. There are lots to choose from.

A good malt should have nothing added except water. The notion that it should be served separately is fanciful.

A good whisky-drinking friend of mine in rural Aberdeenshire, when offering his guests a dram, will enquire first what they will take with it. If it is soda (or - horrors - lemonade, a very low class mix), the offer will be a cooking whisky, like Grouse or Bell's. If it is water, they'll be given a malt.

It's just after 1630 on a Sunday. Time for a light dram.

[Old-Duffer]

Wwyvern,

What a timely reminder, I was so engrossed in the forum, I'd completely forgotten the time.

The Glenlivet tonight I think.

Slange!

PS BTW The George at Leadenham (just down the road from Sleaford 'Tech') boasts that it has the largest collection of single malts in the UK - can't vouch for that; only managed one row during my 18 months there.

[Melchett01]

Neptunus Rex ...... I think we can safely say that was a bite :E

However, it does go to highlight what a minefield these occasions can be, and which can as a result really detract from both the host and guests' enjoyment. I would never consider 'necking' an ale during an At Home evening - a BBQ possibly, but not an At Home. Rather than worrying about drinking from a bottle, I would be more concerned with spoiling a good beer. As PN suggests, a decent beer tastes far better when served in a glass, especially the continental beers which I prefer over the typical British gnat's piss that is Carling or John Smiths etc. that is unfortunately so prevalent this side of the Channel.

And whilst a guest should ensure their behaviour isn't such that it prevents a repeat invitation - unless it really is that painful - a good host will always ensure their guests are fully at ease, and will recognise that not everybody 'appreciates' a single malt or a glass of wine, and might prefer something else. Outside of a formal function, I see nothing wrong with quaffing a decent beer from a glass if one so desires, especially if it is offered.

I am reminded of an occasion where I was having dinner with my then girlfriend (a wannabe oenophile) and her parents; I don't know whether she was more mortified by her father (a 1*) offering me a beer with dinner or me for accepting. Her father was firmly of the view that dinner should be enjoyed and not endured and that to insist on white wine with fish, red wine with meat and a glass of peat passing as a dram after dinner was little more than snobbery. Secretly I think he was quite pleased to have an excuse to break out the beers over a rather indifferent bottle of wine!

[Pontius Navigator]

a decent beer tastes far better when served in a glass, especially the continental beers which I prefer over the typical British gnat's piss that is Carling or John Smiths etc. that is unfortunately so prevalent this side of the Channel.

Digressing, I had a delicious half of Mr Bateman's XB after the Service this morning followed swiftly by another.

O-D, mmm, sounds like a plan, the George being only half an hour away. Anyway last night we broached fine bottle of Green Spot; I am well on the way to beng converted.

[Neptunus Rex]

Wwyvern,

I agree entirely. Born in Scotia, and having served three great years with 120 at Kinloss, I hope know my whiskies. The general rule, but not inviolable, is that the further west you go, the darker and more peaty the taste. Laphroaig is indeed an acquired taste, which, I am happy to say, both my sons share with me.

There was an occasion when I was detached (along with Fincastle 84) to ISK from 'The Gallant Forty Twa.' After dinner one night, in our Forres Hotel (The Mess was full of Knucleheads from Leuchars; hallelujah) one of our Sassenach crew ordered "Four Glen M'rran gees." An elderly, kilted Scottish gentleman at the end of the bar rattled his copy of "The Press and Journal" and proclaimed:

"Young Sir, in these parts we call it Glen More angee!"

[fincastle84]

I was detached (along with Fincastle 84) to ISK from 'The Gallant Forty Twa.

I duly validate NR's statement, this event did indeed take place. Apologies for my late arrival to this excellent thread but I've been a bit busy with poppies this past fortnight.

Catching up, I seem to remember that in the good old days it was either G&T or brandy drys (horses necks for our fish head readers), served from a jug, occasionally with ice. Wine was reserved for dining in nights (this was pre Hirondelle).

I have happy memories of Mrs J de M Severne declaring on her BoB cocktail party invitation, pinned to the OM notice board, that she would be wearing ''hat & gloves''. There was mass horror at the thought that was all she would be wearing.:yuk:

Chopd 95

Were you around the college of knowledge between '66 & '69?

[fincastle84]

I'm glad to report that Mrs F & myself are available on Dec 5. We reside on the Hants/ Dorset border & are therefore in striking distance of you & your generous host & hostess.

Should you need top cover for your likely misdemeanours please acquire us an invitation. A forgery will suffice. I can assure you that our appalling social habits will mask any of your perceived faux pas. Please PM the details in order prohibit the rest of the animals who have subscribed to this thread from gate crashing your career terminating event.

[sycamore]

MM,perhaps you could try Ops at Odious to provide a frequent flypast of Wokkas,Merlins and Pussycats ,to show your host you have `friends in high places`; perhaps a `Google Earth street map` so we can locate the correct hamlet,and the Colonels stables ....

[parabellum]

I think your photo is of the 'plastic' device discussed a few post above.


Sorry O-D, that is the second thread in as many days where I have missed the obvious! Time marches on;)

[Pontius Navigator]

parabellum, worry not, at least you provide a reasonable excuse for ISK to have these obvious Aussie inventions. They clearly left a pallet load after an Aird Whyte.

[chopd95]

Fincastle84

I indeed spent the latter end of the 60's at Towers - short back and sides didn't mark us out at all when all around were excessively hirsuite !!

[PPRuNeUser0139]

O-D wrote
PS BTW The George at Leadenham (just down the road from Sleaford 'Tech') boasts that it has the largest collection of single malts in the UK - can't vouch for that; only managed one row during my 18 months there.
From memory I was sure that a hotel in Tomatin had a record number but from a few minutes Googling it appears that this (http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/craigellachie/craigellachiehotel/index.html) one in Craigellachie must be in with a chance.
Great thread..! (& great thread drift too!)
sv

[cargosales]

Depending which way you look at it, I am fortunate or unfortunate to have a Scottish mother who appreciates fine Malts ..

... and who knows my preference for a fine Speyside over a spadeful of liquified peat presented in bottle format.. a la the stuff from the northern Isles

Unfortunately, a while back, my mum splashed out and bought me a bottle of 18 year old Macallan for Christmas. Ahh .. nectar .. but which rendered just about every other bottle of malt in our house virtually undrinkable because what had previously been great suddenly tasted like soap compared to The Macallan :(

[Union Jack]

Musclemech

Whilst I would be very surprised if any of these excellent whiskies would be on offer at an At Home, may I offer a word of advice. Do not, under any circumstances, even if you completely run out of other topics of conversation, mention to Pongo and Mrs Pongo that your favourite website is PPrune!:eek::eek:

Jack

PS On second thoughts, if you discover that you have made a serious error of judgement in accepting the invitation in the first place, ask if they have a computer and offer to show then this thread!:ok:

[alwayslookingup]

Gents (& ladies),

don't know much about aviation, but I've had plenty of experience of whiskies.

As such -

it's uisge beatha (tr. the water of life), pr "ooshke baa"

it's Slainte Mhath (tr "Good Health"), pr "slanche va"

Tain's most famous export is Glen morangie (the morangie rhyming with orangey).

There's only one proper way to drink Malt whisky, and that's exactly how you want to drink it. Me, I prefer it with a generous helping of ice cubes which melt into a delicious whisky flavoured water. If you wish it with water, or lemonade, or coke, or whatever else takes your fancy then that's just fine by me. Although it should, wherever possible, be drunk out of a nice wide, good quality crystal glass.

There, feel better now, off for a wee snifter before bed, Highland Park at this time of night, me thinks.

[Blacksheep]

One can be in danger of seriously offending one's host by drinking whisky exactly how one wnats to drink it. A chap I know was offered a glass of very expensive and rare highland malt. He poured a generous dollop of dry ginger into it and was raising the glass to his lips when he noticed his host's eyeballs popping out of his head in horror. By all means drink it as one likes it, but its best to do so rather discretely.

[Bertie Thruster]

I love the way brewing and distilling alcohol is such an easy way of making money out of people.

[Neptunus Rex]

PN
I doubt very much that the plastic contraption was an Aussie invention, as the receptacle is not large enough to hold a 'Stubbie.'

Ayrd Whyte is the internal RAF competition to decide which crew goes forward to the international competition, which is Fincastle. I was the skipper of the Aussie crew on Fincastle 85 at ISK. We brought pallet loads of Stubbies and good Aussie wine, but I assure you, nothing plastic.

[Pontius Navigator]

NR, of course you are right, slip of the fingers.

That plastic thingy however does have the advantage of low coeficient for heat thus keeping the drink cooler, but of the stubby one cannot argue about that.

OTOH with an expanding wine industry?

[Pontius Navigator]

Do not, under any circumstances, even if you completely run out of other topics of conversation, mention to Pongo and Mrs Pongo that your favourite website is PPrune!:eek::eek:

Unless of course there is a photgraph of a chopper in his downstairs loo and a blue beret in his cloakroom.

Then you might say, "you should see the banter I created on pprune about a supposed problem for attending your party" - haw haw haw.

[diginagain]

Then you might say, "you should see the banter I created on pprune about a supposed problem for attending your party" - haw haw haw.

He may well be aware already. A few of us pop in here to laugh along with you, too, you know.

[Pontius Navigator]

diggin, that indeed was the point, he needs to be able to be prepared for

"I see you have been on pprune about our little soiree", haw haw, haw

Oh **** :}

[diginagain]

I'm certain MM's going to be well prepared for just about any eventuality, courtesy of the contributions here presented.

Can't wait for the after-action report.

[goudie]

Surprised no one has recommended to MM to 'bone up':E on PPRuNe's 'Friday jokes', just in case conversation dries up. There's also a good assortment from the Limericks thread, he may wish to recite.

[ian16th]

BT

I love the way brewing and distilling alcohol is such an easy way of making money out of people.I seem to remember reading somewhere, that developing the skills for the brewing or distillation of alcohol is the definition that a society has become civilised.

It does it for me :ok:

[NRU74]

Can't wait for the after-action report.Have we done 'Drafting the Thank-you note' yet ?

[goudie]

'Drafting the Thank-you note' yet ?

'Please accept my sincere apologies for my husband's behavior........................................'

[diginagain]

I seem to remember reading somewhere, that developing the skills for the brewing or distillation of alcohol is the definition that a society has become civilised.

I seem to remember being told that the skills needed for brewing were not too dissimilar to those needed to make chemical weapons.

[MadsDad]

I seem to remember being told that the skills needed for brewing were not too dissimilar to those needed to make chemical weapons.

Didn't realise anyone else on here drank in the same pub as me.

[diginagain]

I tend towards homebrew, myself; as Yorkshireman I begrudge handing over more to the Exchequer than is absolutely necessary.

[thegypsy]

Pontius Nav

Not sure whether it is a soiree. Would have thought more likely a daytime do rather than an evening one though I stand to be corrected. Col & Mrs Pongo will not want MM there all night which can happen with evening events especially as I have no doubt he will be taking my advice and getting stuck in with the Malts and one can turn quite nasty if ejected early on a cold evening especially if offered an inferior brand!

[BEagle]

low coeficient for heat

Hmmm.... Presumably you're referring to the coefficient of thermal conductivity? Which is frankly irrelevant, it's a very lower deck device and I sincerely hope that Mrs Pongo wouldn't lower herself to such an item.

The 'Thank you' letter raises great thread possibilities! Years ago, 2 Sqn 4 FTS used to have a 'universal letter' which was excellent - it started something like "Dear (Sir / Mr / Mrs ......) I (have the honour / wish to apologise /would like to thank you) for (your most enjoyable / the use / the abuse / the loan of) (evening / wife / dog / car / daughter)...etc etc with lots of * delete as applicable notes. It was a true masterpiece - I wonder whether anyone still has a copy?

[Old-Duffer]

.......... That this Thread be awarded 'Pprune Thread of the Year 2010'. The last few days have provided much amusement and banter, particularly after we chased away that chap who complained that we weren't taking life seriously enough.

So I say S*D the Booker Prize, Ba%ls (Ba@ls) to the Whitbread, Scr$w the BAFTAS: winner of Prune Thread of the Year is MM!

[airborne_artist]

That this Thread be awarded 'Pprune Thread of the Year 2010'.

Indeed. No end of laughs - almost burst a suture :ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

Not sure whether it is a soiree. Would have thought more likely a daytime do rather than an evening one though I stand to be corrected.

Apologies TG, he did indeed say afternoon

Oh dear, a whole new twist to the saga. How long does one stay? How early can one leave?What sort of sherry would be the better to opt for? Sweet or dry?

[chopd95]

Whilst I agree that the banter is absolutely a must, and amusement factor on this thread is excellent, one takes such matters lightly at one's peril, specifically if the "at home" is an ill-disguised vetting process.

One of our judicial brethren recounted a discussion at the local pony club meet with Col X, who, in full tweed ensemble, discoursed on his method. Any officer wishing to join the wegiment was invited to an "at home", if the answer to the "will you have a drink" was anything other than a curt "Aaah, Gin and tonic", with no flowery additions, was blackballed - and that was within the last 5 years!!

MM beware!

Now where are my cavalry twill trousers, and tattersall check shirt?!

[thegypsy]

chopd95

Of course it is a vetting process and not at all disguised which is why MM has asked our advice as he is rightly worried that he does not end up a social pariah:O

[Pontius Navigator]

one takes such matters lightly at one's peril, specifically if the "at home" is an ill-disguised vetting process.

I think we had already established that it was a vetting.

I remember a vogue drink from the 60s was Baccardi Coke (amongst the youth of course). On asking for a Baccardi Coke the request was usually met with puzzlement followed by an apology that they didn't have any Baccardi, or coke come to that.

I remember one exchange in our local grocers in the 70s.

Countess Cawdor to Mr Rose, working through her shopping list in the back room (only by invite you undertstand) got to one item:

"Do you have any coca cola?" The question being actually quizical as she didn't know what it was.

"No m'lady, but I believe they have it in the Coop." (Which was opposite)

"The Coop - what is that?"

So, as Chopd has said, a G&T was acceptable, but what drinks are non-U and beyond the pale?

[goudie]

but what drinks are non-U and beyond the pale?Snakebite!

[PPRuNeUser0139]

Asking for a pint of lager or drinking a beer out of the bottle would be tantamount to social suicide..:=

[Pontius Navigator]

Of course being drinks on a Sunday afternoon you will of course still be dressed for church will you not?

And well up on the Barbarians v South Africa in case he is a rugga bugga.

A quick gander down round the village next Sunday might be worth while, unless of course you were there yesterday.

[sycamore]

MM, you may wish to look-up the Army Lists in the National Archives website,and find out the intel on the fellow,indeed ,if he is a real Colonel,or just a `Walter`....

[Brian 48nav]

This may not apply to MM, but it is best not to let on that you used to be RAF aircrew. My mate, the late 'MisMIke' - 'Victor Meldrew'.
of BA 777 fleet - and I were at a Colonel's house and Mrs Colonel, having checked we were both on the Herc in 72, spent the whole evening berating us for killing her friends by dropping them in the Kiel Canal. This was 30 years later and no amount of "no we weren't on that exercise" and "but the pongos were responsible for marking the DZ" would mollify her! I did think of spoiling the whole evening by saying " you were just a wife, what the f**k has it got to do you?", but was saved by No1 son, a 'Jag Mate', who saw 'that look' come into his Pa's eye and whisked me away for another beer!
I've always avoided Mrs senior pongos since then.

[Two's in]

but what drinks are non-U and beyond the pale?

It's easier to list the more acceptable drinks - by all means ask for a Red Wine, White Wine, G&T, Scotch (with water or ice only), or just water and you will be relatively bomb proof. Don't ever start being a wine snob ("cheeky little bouquet with a hint of tarmac") or you might as well replace the "s" in "snob" with a "k", and definitely stay off the exotic liquors. Getting into a boat race with Green Chatreuse is not the stuff careers are made of - unless you win of course.

Beer may be offered, but then you run the risk of demonstrating your girly bladder control, while those with bladders like a space hopper are able to maintain a semblance of continuity to their social intercourse. This advice is only pertinent if you intend being invited a second time, otherwise asking for a pint of Creme de Menthe and pork scratchings is the only way to go, making sure your RAFA badge is prominent on your track-suit top.

[Pontius Navigator]

Brian, do pay attention. The nearest Muscle Mech has to aircrew would be jumping from an aircraft.

Mind you Kiel Canal might still be a trap.

[Brian 48nav]

PN sorry; I can't blame my age, being such a young chap - it must be the warm beer I've just had down the local -- see Dubai thread on ATC issues!

[parabellum]

it's a very lower deck device and I sincerely hope that Mrs Pongo wouldn't lower herself to such an item.


Well BEags, 'twas a retired RAF Wg Cmdr's wife's party where I first encountered them! Just how lower deck can one get!;)

[Blacksheep]

What sort of sherry would be the better to opt for? Half a pint of Armadillo wouldn't be a good choice. I'd go for the quart of port.

[Pontius Navigator]

Which reminds me of an Andy Capp cartoon (BEages, that is from the Daily Mirror) where he holds this bloke by the tie, "I asked you what you wanted to drink, not how much you wanted to drink."

[goudie]

not how much you wanted to drink."

''just the half then''

[Pontius Navigator]

Found an interesting website and it fits quite well with the subject matter of this thread:

Fur Feather and Fin Country Sporting Gifts (http://www.furfeatherandfin.com/index.asp?PageKind=FreeCatalogue)

Click on the 'title' arrow and then scroll down the full list. Puts us garage mechanics in our place.

[goudie]

Got a bit excited there for a moment PN when I saw 'bedroom accessories''. Jilly Cooper came to mind:E

[orgASMic]

Someone asked earlier who Stradling was and no-one has replied.

Gp Capt AH Stradling has been mentioned in this thread as he was the author of a book called 'Customs of the Service' in 1939. He wrote it to fill the knowledge gaps of the new officers coming into the RAF once the net had been cast wider by the necessity of war and those new to Service life needed to get up to speed on their etiquette. It was re-printed through the 40's and copies can still be found.

Stradling was also a regular contributer to the RAF Quarterly on a range of air power subjects.

[Fareastdriver]

new officers coming into the RAF

They are the ones who would eat their curry with a knife and fork.

My tea and biccies with the station commander's wife came to a halt when she realised that her daughter and I had been caught behind the bike sheds at school.

[NRU74]

'Customs of the Service' in 1939. He wrote it to fill the knowledge gaps of the new officers coming into the RAF.An updated version of Stradling called 'Per ardua ad astra.' was written by a former Regiment officer, Phil Congdon, and published in 1987.There's some good stuff in it [although not as good as the advice on this thread] on how to reply to invitations etc
Perhaps we ought to have a whip round and send a copy to Mr and Mrs MM for Christmas !

[Barksdale Boy]

I seem to remember a question in the 'B' examination in, I suppose, 1969 along the lines of - You have received an invitation from the station commander's wife to a reception to be held in their residence. Reply, declining the invitation. The post-examination report commented that, in general, this question was not well answered: most candidates were rude and many accepted.

[thegypsy]

NRU74
Christmas is too late for Mrs & Mrs MM. D Day is 5th DEC and elocution lessons would not give them time to be understood in Hampshire. Whilst regional accents are a requirement for employment in the BBC it has not as yet filtered down to rural Hants.

[diginagain]

I wonder if, as in days of old, guests would be expected to entertain those present.

If I may, MM, perhaps a rendition of Monty Python's 'Universe Song' might be well received?

[Neptunus Rex]

Anyone needing to refer to 'Stradling' is lost from the start.

[XN593]

MM

This is an important mission for you and Mrs. MM. I have therefore rummaged around in the loft and come up with some hints and tips from a RAF guide circa 1973 (Stradling?).
I think they stand the test of time.

Informal invitations
13. Married couples send, and reply to, invitations and it is the task of the ladies to pen those letters. In the same vein, a single office also sends invitations, replies or thank you letters to the lady of the house.

Arrival and departure times
14. You should never arrive before the time stated on an invitation, nor should you be late. For cocktails or just a plain party with perhaps a buffet supper, arrive no later than 15 minutes after the time on the invitation, but for dinner, never be more than 10 minutes late....

15. Cocktail parties normally finish at the time stated on the invitation card. You should leave within 10 minutes of this time.......Remember that a hostess will almost certainly say “Oh, do stay for a while longer” but this is only convention and you should not attach to this any literal meaning.

Thank you letters
17. .....It is only a matter of common courtesy, after receiving any hospitality, to write a brief note of thanks. The letter should be written the following day, and the following example could well act as a guide....
Dear Mrs Pongo,
Just a short note to thank you for your sumptuous hospitality. I had a wonderful evening and enjoyed every minute of it.
Yours sincerely
Mrs MM

18. A common fault is rashly to overstate the case. If the meal or hospitality was not sumptuous, do not say it was; merely say “thank you for an enjoyable dinner party last evening”. A hostess likes to be thanked for her magnificent dinner if it was so; if not, the insincerity of your letter will not be appreciated.

Introductions
19. The main points to remember regarding introductions:
a. A gentleman is introduced to a lady.
b. A single woman is introduced to a married woman
c. A younger man is introduced to an older man
d. A junior officer is introduced to a senior officer

21. There is only one correct mode of greeting the person to whom you have been introduced and that is to say “How do you do”. This question is rhetorical and is always left unanswered. When shaking hands remove, if applicable, your glove. Be definite and brief when shaking hands: a tentative paw is just as objectionable as a bone crushing grasp.

With this and the many other useful tips previously mention I am sure you and Mrs MM will sail through.

[4mastacker]

chopd95 wrote: ................specifically if the "at home" is an ill-disguised vetting process.


.....or even a 'grooming' process!! :E

[STANDTO]

I still have a pristine copy of 'Officer Behaviour' issued to me on 109 in 1988. Oft wondered who the fine upstanding chap and chapess on the front cover were, and where are they now......

And remember, NEVER, ever, fold a used linen napkin, at the end of a meal unless you are staying in the house for subsequent meals. You were warned (p17):=

[Mechta]

...and elocution lessons would not give them time to be understood in Hampshire. Whilst regional accents are a requirement for employment in the BBC it has not as yet filtered down to rural Hants.

Reminds me of when the current Mrs Mechta, who hails from the West coast of Scotland, came on the scene. Mrs Mechta Senior (Hampshire born & bred) asked Mechta Minor, then aged four, what he thought of Mrs Mechta. His reply, "Oh, she's very nice. She's foreign, but she has learnt some English."

[airborne_artist]

Reminds me of when the current Mrs Mechta, who hails from the West coast of Scotland, came on the scene. Mrs Mechta Senior (Hampshire born & bred) asked Mechta Minor, then aged four, what he thought of Mrs Mechta. His reply, "Oh, she's very nice. She's foreign, but she has learnt some English."

Mere Artist once met a lady who when asked what her husband did, said (she thought) "He's got a farm, you see". The conversation tottered along, with some odd answers to questions about rural life, until it was discovered that the man owned a chemist's shop. :}

[Wander00]

In the early 80s a fellow flight commander at Cranwell (P... Cong...?) wrote an updated guide for young officers called, if I remember correctly, "Behind the Hangar Doors". I have a copy somewhere. I must see if I can find it.

[Pontius Navigator]

In the early 80s a fellow flight commander at Cranwell (P... Cong...?) wrote an updated guide for young officers called, if I remember correctly, "Behind the Hangar Doors". I have a copy somewhere. I must see if I can find it.

You mean:

An updated version of Stradling called 'Per ardua ad astra.' was written by a former Regiment officer, Phil Congdon, and published in 1987.There's some good stuff in it [although not as good as the advice on this thread] on how to reply to invitations etc

As posted by NRU74 at serial 214?

[BEagle]

And remember, NEVER, ever, fold a used linen napkin, at the end of a meal unless you are staying in the house for subsequent meals.

Normal hotel etiquette as well. But woe betide you should you ever refer to a napkin as a 'serviette'....:eek:

[chopd95]

Thought I had cracked the table etiquette after 30 months concentrated training, and disguised my lowly upbringing, until, graduation lunch in college hall, dear mother (who was clearly trying too hard) asked the senior officer to pass the cruet - the shame of it lingers !!!

[Old-Duffer]

.......... was your mother sitting above or below the salt?

It suggests you and she were well placed at lunch, if you had a 'senior officer' within hailing distance.

Also to be remembered; it was the senior officer's fault!! If he had been the proper host, he would have enquired of your mother if she would like the salt & pepper and any other 'frillies' on the table. You have my permission to expunge your shame from the memory banks.

O-D

[Pontius Navigator]

At a girls' boarding school near us they were forbidden from asking for the salt and pepper; they were always told to offer it.

So, the S&P sitting forlornly at one end of the table, the girl at the other end, wanting it, would politely ask "would you like the S&P Emily" of the girl with the S&P. Subtle!

[A2QFI]

SFAIK The George at Leadenham has, or used to have, the largest collection of whiskies that were available to be bought and drunk. There may be larger collections but they are for show only. Years ago theye had an early Japanes whisky which claimed to be made from "Genuine Imported Scottish Grapes"!

[Wander00]

PN - corect on both points - I had missed Post 214, and you had a better memory of the correct title. Thanks

[Red Line Entry]

Wasn't the guide issued during IOT in the '80s the famed 'Caesar'? Customs, Etiquette and Social Responsibilities (CESR) if I recall correctly.

[Pontius Navigator]

Mr & Mrs MM will of course drink socially and wisely but does anyone remember the "Drinks" item on the 1369? It was dropped after th e60s I believe but one box, can't remember if it rated a one or a nine was "Drinks immoderately and unwisely" or words to that effect.

[Old-Duffer]

PN's post reminds me of the example letters which appeared in the ISS training manuals for those pursuing a staff college qualifier after the old 'Q' exam was binned.

The Formal official letter example was written by "Flt Lt D A L Croxley" and it was a masterpiece of 'Sir, I have the honour' stuff. This guy is complaining that he has been pillored for too much drinking and his 'direct' management style. Of course now it's called: Defence Writing and all those lovely styles have gone. My personal favourite was the Air Force Board Letter of Grave Displeasure!

On my OCTU course we had a female who couldn't understand that, even if you were writing to confess some awful crime, you still used the 'formal official style:

Sir,
I have the honour to report that I have murdered my wife and stolen the mess silver..........

[Pontius Navigator]

Or the ending:

"I have the honour to be, Sir, your obedient servant"

but I prefer:

The Duke of Wellington is said to have once ended a letter "Your most humble and obedient servant (which you know damned well I am not).

But wouldn't be wonderful today not - using such a formula as some kind of ***-take - but to petty officials and MPs
"You have the honour to be, Sir, my most humble and obedient servant."

[teeteringhead]

PN It was dropped after th e60s I believe but one box, can't remember if it rated a one or a nine was "Drinks immoderately and unwisely" or words to that effect. It was a four box matrix headed "This officer Drinks ...." and the "axes" were Wisely/Unwisely and Frequently/Infrequently, so you could be Wisely Frequently, Wisely Infrequently, Unwisely Infrequently (most of us?) or Unwisely Frequently (and we all know some of them ....)

I did hear a suggestion that the entire 1369 could be replaced by that box, if the word "Thinks" were substituted for "Drinks".

And I must add that I'm not THAT old! But I worked once as a Barnwood desky, and we had (subtly differing) 1369s going back to the 1950s for some of our older brethren....

[Old-Duffer]

............. Teeteringhead, how brave (rash?) of you to admit to being a Barnwood desky.

My first 1369 confidential report was written circa early 1965 and before the days of formal interviews and a more general openess. I was not unduly concerned of the finer points of the confidential report and filled in the bits that were mine and got shot of it. I took no notice of the bit that said 'if you award a starred number for this quality, you must inform the officer'. Starred numbers were '3' or below in some of the qualities but not all

Some weeks later, I was summoned by 'the boss' and he said as a throw away line; "Young Duffer, I've given you a starred item for Tact" - nothing more, no discussion etc. "Thank you, Sir" says and I go forth pretty pleased that I'm already scoring 'stars' and I've only been in the game less than a year.

It was only the following year, when I got the 1369 forms to fill in again that I realised what the boss had meant - and me having spent 12 months thinking I was a model of tact and diplomacy! Mind you, I was to receive many more blows to my ego, courtesy of the dreaded 1369.

O-D

[John Miller]

You guys make me homesick. This is such a hilarious thread! I must mention it to my mum, she is an air force widow and would find it terribly amusing as well.

[Neptunus Rex]

Ah! The time is approaching 1369.

At ISK in the latter '60s, we had a Flight Commander Bean-Stealer.There were at least 12 bachelor officers on 120, and he, of course, saw us all at work and at play. He was fond of saying that he wished there were a 'morals' section in the 1369, as there would be a few 'starred items' flying about.

He got his come-uppance when he was caught 'seeing to' the wife of an officer who was away on a two-month detachment in Sharjah. In those days, that was beyond the pale so he was Drummed Out - a year short of his pension.

[Pontius Navigator]

In those days, that was beyond the pale so he was Drummed Out - a year short of his pension.

True of the 70s too although a 2-month det to Sharjah was discrete. Bonking during sorties was cutting it fine - too fine one night at the Flt Cdr miscounted :}

Or even worse during night shifts - the cuckold at ISL and Mrs at ISK.

But this is far too advaced for Mr & Mrs MM, unless of course it comes to car keys or tales out of school.

[Rossian]

...and died of a heart attack on an escalator on the Underground a short while afterwards. Referred to in the estimable "Sharjah Free Press" as hyphen blunt, no?

The Ancient Mariner

[EngAl]

A speech I heard at a dining-in night given by an ex Barnwood desk officer included several (probably apocryphal) tales of entries on 1369's. My favourite was:
"There's only one person who drinks more beer in the mess than this officer and that is his wife"
He didn't relate the effect on the guy's career - probably onwards and upwards!

[goudie]

tales of entries on 1369's.

'This officer thinks he's the Squadron wit...unfortunately he is only half right!

[Impiger]

I used to lecture on CESR at IOT. My basic line was 'This is a load of bolleaux, if you need to be told how to behave - you're in the wrong place'!

Shortest lesson going - the Cadets loved it:ok:

[chopd95]

Pongo (well cavalry actually) 1369 equivalent:
"the troopers will follow this officer to the end of the earth - to watch him fall awf the end"!
T'was same wegiment where, at a dining out night, the RSM stood behind the Colonel - " Sir, who shall drink it?" - the "It" was a silver chamber pot captured from Napoleon and filled with champagne - after that it all became rather hazy !

[chopd95]

There was of course the cavalry subaltern career ending "I wouldn't breed from this man"!

[parabellum]

"Men will follow this officer anywhere, generally out of curiosity".

[Clockwork Mouse]

"This officer is depriving some village of its idiot".

[Bertie Thruster]

I must have gone to a parallel universe officer training. On my first day at Cranwell, one of my fellow students asked me "How do you know if your best friend is a queer?"

Much later, after I had 'graduated', I heard that one of my fellow students had f*cked our IOT flight commander. He still got his scraper. Probably a wing commander now.

I did learn how to tie a bowtie. Not much else. The flight commander did have a nice arse; I loved following it as we tramped tediously across Salisibury plain.

Hang on, all that training wasn't wasted; I remember something else, you can use the dessert fork on its own, but if you use the dessert spoon you MUST use the fork as well.

Good luck MM!

[Airborne Aircrew]

Hang on, all that training wasn't wasted; I remember something else, you can use the dessert fork on its own, but if you use the dessert spoon you MUST use the fork as well.

The sad thing is that you lot had to go through special training to learn such utter tosh... Your time would have been much better spent in other ways that I don't really need to expand upon... :rolleyes:

[BBadanov]

O-D: It was only the following year, when I got the 1369 forms to fill in again that I realised what the boss had meant - and me having spent 12 months thinking I was a model of tact and diplomacy! Mind you, I was to receive many more blows to my ego, courtesy of the dreaded 1369.

Something similar with me. Saw the Staish in RAFG to have the 1369 tea leaves read: "You've done really well on the squadron - you are the type of chap we need as spec aircrew." Well I was really chuffed, then...wait on a mo!

[sisemen]

I heard that one of my fellow students had f*cked our IOT flight commander

I trust that was a female flt cdr old boy. I know that t'other is almost de rigeur nowadays but probably not good form at IOT.

What year would that be??

[Pontius Navigator]

Siesman, as a wild guess I would say about 1987?

I was up at Otterburn I think it was and had thoughts that could certainly have made the NotW. IIRC she had a gorgeous sun tan and blonde hair which was in lovely contrast on her arms.

Unfortunately her pine-pole bearing charges were going one way and my motley aircrew evaders were going the other.

Oooo, I am coming all over weak.

[petit plateau]

A couple of classic RN 206s include:

"this officer performs entirely to his own satisfaction"

"Lt Bloggs is an excellent Olympic dinghy sailor (whatever) and in his spare time is a tolerable naval officer"