32(TR) Sqn - Why do we have/need them?

[Winco]

Many of you will know of my outbursts on the subject of the Nimrod MRA4 and the total loss of LRMPA coverage for this nation, not to mention SAR cover, and I make no apology for them, however;

In light of this and other significant cuts in the inverntory of our front line Armed Forces, I wonder if someone 'in the know' could explain to me what the heck we still have 32 Sqn for and their role as the so-called Royal Flight??

It appears to me that in recent times, their Highness's fly commercial pretty much everywhere they go, so why do we need them?? I would much prefer to see an MPA asset on the books rarther than an ageing fleet of 125's and 146's (are the 146's still going??)

That would then leave the way clear to bin Northolt, sell it off for some ridiculous figure and em..............................pay for Nimrod MRA4 maybe!!

On the other hand, it's a bit too convenient for the likes of CAS, ACAS and their entourage when they want to go to an airshow at the weekend isn't it? so I guess it will never happen. Shame really.

Winco

[A and C]

The operation at Northolt is in money terms very small in comparison with the Nimrod project, the aircraft are cheap , parts are cheap and Netjets is paying a large part of the cost of the airfield.

The Nimrod is hand built , packed with very costly kit and takes a lot of people to fly and maintain it.

So all in all I dont think selling the Northolt operation would pay for 2% of the Nimrod operation.

That is not to say that I don't think scrapping the Nimrod was a very silly thing to do.

[Ray Dahvectac]

bin Northolt ...

Good God man! Don't you know that Northolt is home to HQ RAF Music Services and it's ever-expanding 'Musician's Uniform Design and Embellishment Section' ? How can we expect piccolo players to carry more gold braid than an Air Marshal if we do away with such important establishments!

[kharmael]

Plus Northolt is probably the only RAF Airfield to run a profit/ break even due to all the private customers wanting to get to London in their private jets and not wanting to brave Heathrow/ Gatwick.

[cazatou]

Winco

So you wish to see the end of emergency Casualty Evacuation for premature babies born overseas to Military Families - coupled with an end to Compassionate Evacuation for Serving Personnel overseas to enable them to visit dying loved ones before it is too late? In the 14 years I served on 32 these were regular occurrences. Is this a price worth paying to keep what is basically a 58 year old airframe design in operation for a few more years?

[cokecan]

Cazatou
"So you wish to see the end of emergency Casualty Evacuation for premature babies born overseas to Military Families - coupled with an end to Compassionate Evacuation for Serving Personnel overseas to enable them to visit dying loved ones before it is too late? In the 14 years I served on 32 these were regular occurrences. Is this a price worth paying to keep what is basically a 58 year old airframe design in operation for a few more years?"

is there no other platorm - C-130/A-400M/C-17/VC-10/Tristar/CH-47/Merlin - that can perform these roles?

can - and i ask because i don't know - the platforms on 32(TR) drop into Bastion to bring the unfortunate Cpl Goodbloke back to Newcastle to be with his dying mum, and do we really send the families of service personnel to areas where premature babycare doesn't exist?

do we really need - given the less than palatable other options available - to retain what apears to be a very much 'one-trick pony' platform, and not one with unique capabilities - at the expense of a single GR4, or Frigate, or ASTOR, or a Bay class landing ship?

[thebarrel]

Those of you who are actually in the forces and actually deploy would know that 32 Sqn's main role is operational flying, both Iraq and Afghan (that includes Bastion). There is a quote kicking around, I think from CJO, stating that a 125 trip (bearing in mind that this could be to any airfield at short notice) can save up to 3 weeks of negotiations. Imagine a C130 doing these trips; they are stretched enough as it is without leaving troops/freight behind to move our leaders around.

The jets are paid for, Northolt makes a profit and I think you'll find the few million that may have been saved (although I'm not convinced it would save anything ref. T&S, chartering aircraft, using C130/C17) is a drop in the ocean compared to the BILLIONS needed for Nimrod?

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[BEagle]

Quite so. The days of corgi-chauffering and flying Air Miles Andy between parties various are long one.

Nevertheless, I still feel that we should have a proper 'Head of State' aeroplane, just as France, Germany and other major European nations have.

[alwayzinit]

Ah but Mr Barrel:ugh::ugh::ugh:??

The Nimrod money has already been spent. So NOT finishing the bloody project we have completely wasted the Billions and lost LRMPA Brilliant.

Now that is:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::*:*:mad:

[thebarrel]

Indeed. But that's a different argument (and I for one don't condone the decision). But suggesting closing Northolt and 32 will pay for the through life cost...? :=

[cazatou]

BEagle

re the "Head of State" aircraft - are you sure it is not being delivered direct to Mr Brown? :oh:

[standrews]

32 Sqn will withdraw all its A109 rotary assets APR 11 and funding is only secure for the fixed wing assets until 2015, when the next SDSR is due.

[RumPunch]

On the same note the Red Arrows, the other night on the BBC One Show they were giving a jolly to some fat bloke reporter bigging them up, great I know its only 9 million a year or whatever small costs they carry but 9 million can buy a lot of equipment for the guys on the ground. That is what this SDSR is about is it not. Saving at all corners of defence and saving lives, not recruitment as its pretty obvious now we dont need numbers as we are loosing 9000 people, a third of our strength.

[Redcarpet]

Why does the plight of the Nimrod, as sad as it is, have to appear in almost every thread on this forum.:{

[BEagle]

Why does the plight of the Nimrod, as sad as it is, have to appear in almost every thread on this forum?

Because anyone with even half a brain cell is absolutely livid about the loss of such a crucial national capability, perhaps?

[chopd95]

The sad thing is that, though I left in 75, people I work with ask me how can it make sense that we will not have a real maritime capability

[Q-RTF-X]

Quite so. The days of corgi-chauffering and flying Air Miles Andy between parties various are long one.

Nevertheless, I still feel that we should have a proper 'Head of State' aeroplane, just as France, Germany and other major European nations have.


Totally 100% agree

[Roadster280]

"a proper 'Head of State' aeroplane" -

How about a Nimrod? I believe there's a few airframes in Cheshire that are looking for a home. New engines, wings, the works. All paid for too.

Rip out the expensive electronics down the back, whack in a few comfy seats and you're golden.

[Mr C Hinecap]

9 million can buy a lot of equipment for the guys on the ground

Like what that isn't being bought already? £9m isn't very much in procuring and supporting any piece of equipment.

[Winco]

Cazatou
"So you wish to see the end of emergency Casualty Evacuation for premature babies born overseas to Military Families - coupled with an end to Compassionate Evacuation for Serving Personnel overseas to enable them to visit dying loved ones before it is too late? In the 14 years I served on 32 these were regular occurrences. Is this a price worth paying to keep what is basically a 58 year old airframe design in operation for a few more years?"

Your comments are simply not worthy of comment other than to suggest you grow up a little bit and stop being so bl00dy stupid! If you are now saying that bthe CURRENT role of 32 Sqn is CASEVAC and COMP cases, then fine. I was unaware that we had a dedicated squadron undertaking that role. As has been pointed out, there are many other platforms doing just that role and I can't see a 125 being that good for the job either.

Anyway, I am aware of the civilian traffic using Northolt, and that kind of highlights the point that, in these cash-strapped times, we could sell of Northolt for a huge sum of money and begin to put things right on the old MPA front.

BEagle - 100% agree my dear chap.

Regards
Winco

[thebarrel]

Ah yes, good old short-termism, lets sell something that both provides a vital London base and makes consistent money for the RAF for what most probably will be a paltry sum! Great idea. A bit like cancelling the MRA4.

As above, you have a dedicated in theatre command support Sqn. Please suggest a cheaper replacement (an available asset, without further Ops impact, with DASS please). Or am I to think you will suggest a Nimrod for the job?

[BEagle]

Not to mention that it's a very handy place to park your car when you need to visit Town using the Central Line from Ruislip Gardens....:ok:

Not quite as handy as RAF West Drayton used to be for London Airport though!

[Wrathmonk]

Your comments are simply not worthy of comment other than to suggest you grow up a little bit and stop being so bl00dy stupid

A touch of 'pot calling the kettle black' perhaps Winco ........ ;)

[Heathrow Harry]

Good God!

Close Northolt?

Politicians would have to drive out to LHR (whoops - no slots) or way down to Biggin to get a flight anywhere :eek:

[cazatou]

Winco

Well, I did many such Casevac and Compassionate sorties in my time as an Aircraft Captain on 32 Sqn at Northolt. One I remember well was a Sunday Lunchtime when my Wife had invited a friend and her Husband for Lunch. Husband asked me if I was "Off Duty" and I said "Yes - well unless the phone rings"; right on cue the phone rang! It was STC Ops asking if we could do a casevac for bomb blast victims from NI as it would take at least 5 hours to generate a C130.

Its Sunday Lunch Time - the Airfield is closed - I don't have a crew or Groundcrew and the Mk1 Andover isn't in the correct role. There is only one answer - Yes. We were airborne within the hour.

I would estimate that we averaged 2 casevacs or Comp 'A's a month during my 14+ years on the Sqn.

I await your apology with interest.

PS If you want to check it was Sunday 10 June 1978 Andover C Mk1 XS 597.

PPS I see from your profile that you do not appear to have a Military background. If that is correct then I appreciate that that you may not comprehend the effort that is put into repatriating wounded Personnel from Active Service.

[minigundiplomat]

Winco,

You are being a bit of a kn0b. To be fair, the loss of the Nimrod and closure of Kinloss are emotive issues, so I can see why, but you need to put it behind you fella and move on.

Having a go at others is understandable, but incorrect.

[cazatou]

Winco

I still await your apology but (while you compose it) perhaps you would like to inform us as to how much revenue would actually be generated by the sale of RAF Northolt given that Due Disclosure would apply and prospective Purchasers would have to be made aware of the fact that RAF Northolt is built on the site of a Burial Pit emanating from the Great Plague of London in 1665/6. This has always resulted in severe constraints on any ground works carried out at that Airfield.

PS There may also be undiscovered German Ordnance still buried there as it was a active Airfield in both World Wars.

[cornish-stormrider]

Caz, we have disagreed on many issues. Not on this one. Go You (without sarcasm).

And I do agree, Winco, you are coming across as a bit of a Knob. Kindly stop it, that role is mine.

[Blacksheep]

...I don't have a crew or Groundcrew Huh! There was always a full ground crew available over the weekend when I was working there on the Mks I and II Andovers/Whirlwinds/Gazelles and we could (and sometimes did) pull off a role change within the hour while a crew came in and self-briefed. In fact those never-ending 60 hour weeks with only every other weekend off was the main reason I left for civvy street at the end of my engagement. When N.I. was full on, 32 Sqn never was (and with those sandy places, most probably still isn't) the cushy number that it seemed to outsiders. It was and is a serious business.

[cornish-stormrider]

And every place I ever worked always had a nominated "stitched" crew of hardy spanner wielders for any eventuality.

If fact I was so conditioned to it I still have on call engineers in civvy street........

[Winco]

caz

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you on this, sim check rides I'm afraid. Firstly, I have no intention of apologising for replying to your stupid comment about me wanting to;

'see the end of emergency Casualty Evacuation for premature babies born overseas to Military Families - coupled with an end to Compassionate Evacuation for Serving Personnel overseas to enable them to visit dying loved ones before it is too late'

Accusing me of that was uncalled for and it really was a load of drivel frankly. Had you taken the time to read what I said, you will have seen that I simply asked the question about whether or not, in these cash-strapped times we needed 32 Sqn and Northolt. If we do, then fine, although I obviously feel that other front line stations are more valuable. So take a pill, calm down, have a glass of wine and get over it!

What you did on 32 Sqn is not in question but you should remember that, that was then and this is now. Yes, the Andover could be re-roled at fairly short notice into all sorts of things (just like a mini C-130) but we don't have that flex anymore do we? How long is it to re-role a 146? Can a 125 even be re-roled I wonder? Apart from that, our Royals don't do much flying with 'The Royal' Sqn anymore do they? and as has been pointed out, the helos are going soon.

So, in light of that, I don't think it was an unreasonable question and topic to raise, especially as so many front line assets are being chopped.

As for my time in the service; well, I shan't bore you with the details of it all, suffice to say that after 32 years of virtually non-stop front line ops flying, I don't need to tell everyone about how my sunday lunch was screwed up by a call out (I've lost count, along with hundreds of others, of how many sundays and complete w/e's were screwed up) or how we diverted to Akrotiri (we were out of Gib in a Nimrod on a medex) to pick up the wife of some Pongo who's Mum was poorly, and then fly her straight back to the UK, without calling in for our kit back in Gib!!. It's not such a big deal is it??

Anyway, 32 sqn are clearly a busy bunch by all accounts, and if they are providing a valuable asset in theatre to the services and not just a nice convenience for the airships, politicians and the odd Royal, then good luck to them.

[Pen Pusher]

Can't get rid of 32Sqn or Northolt. Excellent hosts for the Night Photo Shoots. :D

RAF Northolt Night Photo Shoot VII ~ 30th September 2010 :: Fotopic.Net (http://brianamarshall.fotopic.net/c1902599.html)

Brian

[vecvechookattack]

Anyway, 32 sqn are clearly a busy bunch by all accounts, and if they are providing a valuable asset in theatrewould that be the maternity ward or the ENT clinic? Do we really have a squadron whose role entails ferrying babies around? ...... And we got rid of the harrier and nimrod but opted to retain the mothercare squadron? Weird

[thebarrel]

vecvec, are ignorant all the time or is it just this thread?

Command Support Sqn...yes, babies command the in-theatre assets.

Now how about you go back to commanding Meccano from your armchair...

:ugh:

[Neptunus Rex]

...we diverted to Akrotiri (we were out of Gib in a Nimrod on a medex) to pick up the wife of some Pongo who's Mum was poorly, and then fly her straight back to the UK...Winco, I am not criticising you in any way. Whoever tasked that flight should have been disciplined, as it was a gross misuse of tactical assets.. I cannot imagine that 'the Pongo's wife whose mother was poorly' could not have been flown on a scheduled flight from Larnaca.

[Cows getting bigger]

Much that Comp A is valued by the armed forces, it shouldn't be used as the justification for a sqn and/or station. It seems to me that the UK no longer has a maritime patrol capability, limited ISTAR, no ability to operate offensive air from a ship and is still struggling with STRAT/TAC AT and SH.

To me, these are important capability gaps. Now if someone were to accurately describe the military role of 32(TR) Sqn then I think much of this argument would go away.

[Army Mover]

Whoever tasked that flight should have been disciplined, as it was a gross misuse of tactical assets.. I cannot imagine that 'the Pongo's wife whose mother was poorly' could not have been flown on a scheduled flight from Larnaca.
I don't think you'll find their would be any misuse of tactical assets. If you're really not aware of the system, the you'll probably be amazed at the lengths the Services go to so that all of our military family group can be there to support our families when they need it.

I can assure you that if the scheduled flight out of Larnaca met the bill, then it would have been used, but equally, if the captain of a passing MPA or any other type of service aircraft could help in anyway (and I've seen some extraordinary examples), my experience is that they would move heaven and earth to do so.

I applaud all of them.

[Winco]

Neptunus Rex

To the best of my knowledge, there was no action taken against the Ops staff (or whoever) that re-tasked us, and to be honest I don't think that there should have been. As Army Mover states, people in the services will go to some extraordinary lengths to achieve the task, and this was one of those cases.

But it wasn't a big deal to be honest with you, and I don't feel it was a gross misuse of a tactical asset either. There can surely be few things more important in life than getting someone back to a loved one in time of need. In this case we picked up the lady concerned, got auth' to fly her and landed at Leeming, which was the closest point to where her Mother was, and where a service car was waiting to take her (presumably) to the hospital. Then it was back to KSS for the night before going back to Gib the next morning to pick up our kit!!

I do seem to recall the case of a Cpl getting a lift back to the UK from somewhere in the back of an F-4! I'm sure someone will enlighten us about the details of that??

Happy days!!
Winco

[vecvechookattack]

That may be the case but if we so have a squadron whose role is to transfer babies and old people around then we need to chop them straight away

[Biggus]

vec,

Best you chop 771 Sqn then......

[thebarrel]

Why do people ask these questions and not just reasearch themselves? As quoted from the September/October Operational Update:

Comms Fleet
The HS 125 and BAe 146 aircraft of Number 32 (The Royal) Squadron are presently based in the Gulf. During the week the aircraft carried a number of VVIPs, VIPs and other key personnel in and out of theatre.
Comms Fleet
The Bae 125s and 146s of the RAF’s Communications Fleet have had a very busy period moving VIPs, other personnel and urgent equipment around the Middle East.
Editor: Sqn Ldr P R Lipscomb.
Ie. They move valuable assets around theatre, providing a bespoke service to anywhere at a fraction of the cost of a big asset. If you think it is better to leave 60 odd troops and get a C130 to do the moves then I'm sure that will be well received. I think you'll find that 32 have taken part in every conflict since GW1.

[Climebear]

Saying 32 Sqn is there for Comp is like saying that the purpose of the RN is to hold Cocktail Parties all over the world. Yes it is something they do but it is not their role.

The role is highlighted above. They are only there because PJHQ deem that they are essential for the UK's contribution to coalitions' Ops in the region. With pressure on to reduce the UK's deployed footprint if PJHQ were not convinced that they were required they'd be back home.

[vecvechookattack]

771 is a search and rescue squadron .... 32 R Squadron is not.

771 Squadron is being chopped.....


So, what does 32 do? And more importantly, if we scrapped them what would the consequences be? If you were compiling a business case to save 32 sqdn what would you reason?

[thebarrel]

vecvechookattack, CAN YOU NOT READ?

[Biggus]

...no, he can't.

He also doesn't let facts - such as the fact that 771 Sqn "...transfer a lot of babies and old people around...", admittedly ill babies and old people, which was his criteria (not mine) for chopping a squadron "straight away" (see post 40) - get in the way of his arguments....

[vecvechookattack]

So nobody can be bothered to justify why we should keep the baby squadron? I've just got off the phone from a long chat with the execs of the most famous rescue squadron and they tell me that they have not had the privilege or honour of rescuing any babies this year.
So 32 sqdn is the VIP carrying sqdn who also transfer old people and young people .... Good ....

Thankfully I'm not a wso who is about to lose his job.... Are there Ny wso's on 32 ?

[Climebear]

Well PJHQ obviously think that they are a worthwhile asset to have in the region(covering several JOAs). Perhaps they have consulted with your good self.

[minigundiplomat]

So nobody can be bothered to justify why we should keep the baby squadron?


Many have tried, but if you don't listen.....


I've just got off the phone from a long chat with the execs of the most famous rescue squadron


They obviously haven't mastered caller ID yet. I'm sure they were delighted to hear from you at 22:51 on a Wednesday evening.

[Q-RTF-X]

The reality is that by the time one factors the cost of all the faceless entities that might be involved in winding down and disposing of 32 squadron assets along with those of RAF Northolt, it’s unlikely there would be any significant pounds left in the pot anyhow (if any at all). With regard to current Afghanistan operations, the only real saving is likely to be the actual operating costs and as the actual cost of providing an alternative most likely higher and coming with an operational penalty also, it would seem a bit of a no brainer to leave things alone. Here is a low cost unit contributing in a variety of roles that help support a broad spectrum of activities. Leave it alone would seem to be a good idea, or risk reducing assets with the real risk of little if any significant savings.

[kaikohe76]

Cazatou,
What you say certainly works for me & during my four super years on the 125 at Northolt, on the odd occassion I was called to carry out some of the flights you mention.
Although I can understand some of the arguements associated with this post, could there not be the odd emerald eye here & there as well.
Well said `K`, hope all is well with you, regards `L`.

[cazatou]

thebarrel

"32 have taken part in every conflict since gulf war1"

Plus providing aircraft over many years in support of Civil and Military Powers in Northern Island; my log books show some 230 sorties whilst on 32 Sqn to NI plus, of course, others to Dublin during "The Troubles".

In addition the Sqn provided support to other problem areas such as during Op Corporate in 1979/80 as well as during the lengthy problems of the FRY.

I am afraid that Vecvec is one of those who believe that you should never let facts get in the way of Inter Service prejudice. :ugh:

[cornish-stormrider]

Call me think but wasn't Corporate the FI reclamation project? circa 82 ?

[Winco]

Caz,

I do understand your support and loyalty to 32 Sqn, you having been such a predominant and clearly vital part of that sqn during your career, but are you certain by that last statement?

But Op Corporate?? When and where exactly did 32 Sqn get involved in Op Corporate pray tell, because the whole time I was deployed to ASI, I don't ever remember seeing a 32 Sqn aircraft there, ever. Now it could have been that, whilst those of us on Ops, were flying those very long sorties, a 32 sqn aircraft nipped in, said hello and cleared off again, but I still don't ever remember seeing one of your aircraft on the movements list. Could be wrong of course, and I'm sure you will tell me.

On the otherhand, if you are saying that you guys flew Mrs T somewhere to meet up with say Gen Haig, then OK, I see your point. The same goes for the Balkans. With the exception of flying CAS, ACAS, AOC and a couple of VIPs around, what else did you do there also??

Maybe you flew the odd VSO around the UK or EU 'in support' of ops? But by that very same measure, every soul in the RAF and infact in all three services have all been involved in every conflict going in some way!

Anyway, I'm going to sit back now and await Op Corporate stories and details and how 32 Sqn saved the day (sorry for that last bit)

..................................fire away!

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

thebarrel

my log books show some 230 sorties whilst on 32 Sqn to NI

The average LCR first tourist Co Pilot on the Wessex or Puma would get that many approaches in a 21 day shift. Not PAR's and ILS's into Aldergrove but across the various rocket fences into the FOB's and Forts of South Armagh, Fermanagh and the like.

Now then about this Op Corporate business are we about to see the outing of a Walt :p:p:p:p:p

[minigundiplomat]

The average LCR first tourist Co Pilot on the Wessex


Haven't heard any WIWOW stories recently. :ok:

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Apart from the training at Shawparts you will not be hearing any from me either :p

[taxydual]

Oh for God's sake!

Caz obviously is referring to Op Corporate Hospitality.

"Another smoked salmon sandwich, CAS?"



But seriously, in my time in hot and sandy places, I was amazed to see the '125's popping up in the most unlikely places and DCO'ing the most unlikely tasks.

[32SQDN]

Plus Northolt is probably the only RAF Airfield to run a profit/ break even due to all the private customers wanting to get to London in their private jets and not wanting to brave Heathrow/ Gatwick.

Have they not heard of London City Airport, then?

[Laarbruch72]

Have you seen the GA apron at City? It's tiny.

[Winco]

Caz

As someone who expects everybody to respond to your posts within minutes of you posting them, why are you ignoring those posts from SFFP, BGG, CS and of myself??

Maybe it's all getting a bit too much for you eh??

You are always quick to tell us how good you were, that you had 'exceptional' (I think you said) in your log book, but your lack of input and responce to taxing questions and issues speaks volumes.

I'm beginging to think SFFP might just have a point here..............you are a Walt!

[Winco]

Oh come on Caz,

At least have the ba££s torespond to us................are you still there or have we all gone deep and silent and sulking then??

Come on, where's that true 32 Sqn spirit gone??

[32SQDN]

Come on, where's that true 32 Sqn spirit gone??

Perhaps he feels hunted!!!!

Come on comrades, rally round!

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Come on, where's that true 32 Sqn spirit gone??

Perhaps he feels hunted!!!!

Come on comrades, rally round!

Hunted.................. or maybe uncovered :p:p:p:p:p

[Excommunicator]

Winco,
No offence taken by your asking the question re 32 Sqn. I hope that the answers here on both the Sqn and Northolt (which has very much become a London focus in recent years) have answered any doubts you may have. Operationally I can vouch for GW1, Sierra Leone, Balkans, GW2 and Afghanistan (corporate's a little before my time I'm afraid!). The current deployments have been ongoing without a break since Jan 03; quite a burden for a sqn with only 8 fixed wing platforms. It's not just VIPs though either, its anything and anyone that needs a fast taxi (this can range from vaccines to SF to the "man who can fix the computer that's gone down", as well as the more regular customers). To put it in context, with the extended lay down of early GW2, getting from Saudi to say Southern Oman for a meeting would be a 5 day round trip as visa restrictions precluded moving other than by military means and the flow patern meant you had to route via Akrotiri with a night stop each way. With a 125 available to the command team they could do it in an afternoon. A truly flexible operational capability that provides great value for money.

Hope this helps...

[orgASMic]

Have they not heard of London City Airport?

London City is very limited in the aircraft types approved to operate from there (see list at the link) due to noise and approach restrictions:

London City Airport Consultative Committee - Aircraft (http://www.lcacc.org/aircraft/index.html#Business)

More importantly, no self-respecting celeb wants to travel to the east end to fly from an airport that cannot operate their G VI.

[Winco]

Excommunicator

Many thanks for the insight into current Sqn ops for 32. When i orginated this thread, I was slightly ignorant of what they were up to. I also raised the question about Northolt and I still feel that the questions were justified in light of recent sever and astonoshing cuts.

I have been firmly put in my place that the Sqn is playing an important part in current ops (and past ones too) and I am pleased to hear that.

I suppose my more recent gripe is the likes of Caz who feels that 'his' Sqn was/is the be-all and end-all of RAF operations since time began. To the likes of myself and the thousands of other front line aircrew, they were not and are not. They are widely regarded as a very posh taxi service for SO's and VIP's and I'm not sure that in this present economic climate they should be favoured over other front line assets. Nevertheless, it's good to hear that they are being employed on other more important duties.

And as for his comments about Corporate, well they are simply bizarre.

32 sqn - He is definately being hunted - maybe he needs to get his horn back in his hand!!

[Wrathmonk]

feels that 'his' Sqn was/is the be-all and end-all of RAF operations since time began

Winco

To be fair to Caz that "I'm better than you" that you perceive in him is no different to pretty much every poster on this site - you've only got to look at the threads on Nimrod MR2 / MRA4 cuts or Tornado vs Harrier or Lossie vs Marham or RAF vs FAA or Aircrew vs The Rest (or, god forbid, charcoal vs gas:E) to see that most people on here would argue black is white if it is something they are very passionate about, and will not listen to any others views (particularly if they are the opposite to their own).

Granted, it would be nice to hear him expand on Corporate but I don't feel there's a need to chase/stalk him every other post for answers. But there are times on these forums when the phrase "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" is very apt!:ok:

[taxydual]

For the record.

32 Sqn were involved in Op Corporate.

However, purely UK and Gib tasking. OK, no medals or 'there I was at 30,000ft' war stories.

And did a remarkable service in GW1.

I know because I was there.

They also serve.


Also, apologies to Cazatou for the 'Op Corporate Hospitality' crack in an earlier post. Although the menu on the Bzn to Gib leg was excellent. What a way to go to war!

Endex.

[Laarbruch72]

The operational updates are fine, they're cleared by the MoD. Discussing the detailed points of operational roles on public fora (and that's what some here are asking for) possibly isn't... I'm just saying that it's wise to think before stating just exactly what your (or any) individual unit gets up to in detail.
It always has to come down to trade with some morons eh?
Edit: But seeing your posting history, with trolling posts only, and rolly eyes aplenty, I'm not that surprised.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

The operational updates are fine, they're cleared by the MoD. Discussing the detailed points of operational roles on public fora (and that's what some here are asking for) possibly isn't... I'm just saying that it's wise to think before stating just exactly what your (or any) individual unit gets up to in detail.
It always has to come down to trade with some morons eh?
Edit: But seeing your posting history, with trolling posts only, and rolly eyes aplenty, I'm not that surprised.

So are you a policeman :confused:

[Laarbruch72]

....on official sources, checked before the content goes out, yes.

Is this a difficult concept for you? You seem to be struggling with it.

[Winco]

All this info about 32 sqn and we still can't get Caz from under his stone to tell us if you are all right or wrong and telling the truth or not.

SFFP - I guess you were right Sir, we have weedled out a Walt!!

[minigundiplomat]

Winco,

Walt's tend to claim to be SF or Harrier pilots. 32 Sqn seems a little too specific; maybe Caz simply feels there is no point replying as you have already made up your mind. Post after post of provocation does seem to support his standpoint. Perhaps this has run it's course now?


For the record.

32 Sqn were involved in Op Corporate.



That from another member.

I suppose my more recent gripe is the likes of Caz who feels that 'his' Sqn was/is the be-all and end-all of RAF operations since time began. To the likes of myself and the thousands of other front line aircrew, they were not and are not. They are widely regarded as a very posh taxi service for SO's and VIP's and I'm not sure that in this present economic climate they should be favoured over other front line assets. Nevertheless, it's good to hear that they are being employed on other more important duties.


There is always someone more front-line than you. That isn't a great argument against a squadron or unit. Otherwise the RAF would consist of Chinook and Merlin.

[cazatou]

mgd

Thanks for your support and my apologies for a tardy reply. The French Health Service is the best in the world; which is why the World Health Organisation no longer bothers to publish its table of Health Service Rankings. IIRC the USA averaged 47th in the ratings table. The French Health Service will NOT however allow you to use a computer whilst in your hospital bed undergoing tests.

Our complainant does seem to have a phobia in respect of 32 Sqn which has a distinguished history dating back to the first day of the battle of the Somme when the Sqn Cdr won the VC for engaging a large formation of German bombers single handedly in his DH2. In WW2 the Sqn was the highest scoring Fighter Sqn in 11 Gp in the Summer of 1940 when it was relieved to be rested.

In my time on the Sqn we operated in the Gulf wars, Rhodesia, Yugoslavia (and its later internicine degenerations) as well as "unsettled" parts of Africa and the Middle East. The Sqn also provided casualty evacuation and compassionate flights at short notice 365 days a year.

When one is talking about the detection of submarines equipped with ICBM it has to be a 100% reliable system to be effective - that system does not exist because it is maintained and interpreted by Human Beings.

After many years of Government profligacy and mismanagement the coffers are empty and the Armed Forces are going to have to manage with what is currently available.

Finally, it does seem that winco has failed to notice that the Berlin Wall no longer exists, Poland is no longer under Soviet Occupation and, generally speaking, you don't get shot at if you go to Sarajevo.

[Wander00]

I agree with Cazatou about the French ealth service, but when I was having my hip replaced in January in Clinique Sud Vendee my lap top kept me sane!

[cazatou]

WanderOO

As the say in the Navy "Different Ships - Different Cap Tallies".

I was given a distinct "NON" regarding PC use.

[Wander00]

Funny how it varies - a bit like mobile phones in hospital in UK. Hope you are making good progress
W

[chopper2004]

In light of the DRK shelling the RoK island, now, maybe 32 will have more of a role out east if god forbid it escalates and maybe the UN come in :cool::ugh:

Something that hasn't been mentioned on this thread and that is the FAA pilots assigned to 32 Sqn ( or last I read in the RAF Yearbook 1995) to fly the First Sea Lord around the world as the FAA don't have an exotic VIP Flt with a/c such as our cousins across the pond (C-20/A/D/G at NAF Andrews or Sigonella C-20A).

[Excommunicator]

My understanding of the RN pilots coming to be on 32 is that the RN "funded" 2 of the original 4 x HS125-400 series. The later 2 x 600 and 6 x 700 series were, I believe, all "RAF" buys and thus the preponderance of RAF aircrew on the Sqn. The RN chaps remained for some time after the 400 series were sold (in the early nineties), but in ever decreasing numbers. Sadly there is no longer any representation.

Real shame as they were a great bunch of guys who added yet another string of diversity to the Sqn (not to mention some new vocabulary).

[cazatou]

Excommunicator

Totally agree with your assessment of the RN Pilots on 32 C Flt in the 80's and 90's. A great bunch of guys - with a wealth of experience.

That was true of the other Flt's on the Sqn as well, whose Personnel had experience of the RAF when it was still a World Wide Air Force. That showed on the day of the Piper Alpha disaster which started out as a quiet day - but within 2 hours of the disaster every aircraft on the Sqn was airborne moving Specialist Medical Teams, Engineers and Disaster Management Teams to assist the Immediate Response Emergency Teams who were first on the scene.

The system worked because of the calibre of the Crews and the fact that they daily worked in a world where requirements changed without notice because of developing situations - be they Military or Political.

PS
Edited to reply to the scurrilous jibes of SFFP and Winco:-

I have checked my 5 Log Books and my total Hours flying VIP Andovers amount to 4222hrs, BAe 125 total 788 hrs and BAe 146 584 hrs. There are of course many other hours accumulated as a QFI on Jet Provosts and on 2 Tactical Transport Sqns which were based in UK and the Middle East.

[Winco]

Caz

I hope you are now feeling better and if not I wish you a speedy recovery. I had decided not to prolong this thread, however your latest little jibe at SFFP and myself changed all that.

I note that yet again you have gone to extraordinary lengths to give us all the benefit of details of your flying experience but fail to answer any of the questions asked by SFFP and myself (and others) ref Corporate, so I will assume that these are too difficult for you to answer and thus I will not persue them. Your lack of responce speaks volumes however.

As for Piper Alpha, well, what a coincidence that we should be flying on the same operation together!! I won't tell you which of the RESCUE 01 Nimrods I was flying, suffice to say that it was one of the very early ones.

Piper A exploded on 6 July 1988 at approx 10pm, and you are now telling us that within 2 hours of that (roughly midnight 6/7 July) 32 Sqn had launched every aircraft you had in support of that ?? I can tell you that by midnight, the situation was so confused and chaotic that I doubt if anyone really knew the true extent of things.

Even by daybreak, the full scale of the disaster had not been fully realised and as I recall, by the lunchtime of the 7 July, there was nothing significant of the rig left at all. Enough said about that

Your comment of
'within 2 hours of the disaster every aircraft on the Sqn was airborne moving Specialist Medical Teams, Engineers and Disaster Management Teams to assist the Immediate Response Emergency Teams who were first on the scene' I do not believe Sir, and I am sure that those others who flew on Piper A and have a better recollection of that dreadful night me will verify that.

From what i recall, the responce teams that were 'first on the scene' were those Rig support vessels and other support ships that were in the vicinity of the rig. Sea Kings from Lossie were first airborne assets on scene but were unable to get in too close because of the fire and continuing explosions throughout the night. Even they were ferrying casualties to rig support ships.

Now, you might have been callled and you might have been involved in moving people around the country, but please don't give us all this rubbish about having every aircraft airborne within 2 hours, carrying specialist people and kit around. Just think about the logistics of that statement.

I must get down to check out the Sqn F540 for 32 sqn and read all about their exploits. It will make great reading I'm sure.

ps Not edited in any way whatsoever.

pps I haven't checked my 3 (RAF) Flying log books, so I can't give you a total breakdown of my hours on type, and I can't tell you how many hours I flew on SAROPS either, but then again I don't sleep with my log books!

[downsizer]

Dear god, it continues....:ugh:

[cazatou]

Winco

I wasn't involved in the Maritime Ops bit - you weren't involved in the AT bit.

[chinnyrationcarrier]

Ooh, can I get mine out as well!

[Cows getting bigger]

Please do. Why don't we all slap it on the table? A set of these may be useful (I need the extremely small version :) ).

http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/images/WPP/articles/1MeasuringandMarking/gallery/photo%202.jpg

[thebarrel]

Loving the willy waving

[Blacksheep]

...they were a great bunch of guys...We had a bunch of matelots up from Yeovilton doing the structural work on one of the helicopters. They were a great bunch of guys and we had a good line of banter going. One morning, as I walked past on my way to the tool store I greeted the Royal Navy P.O. "Tiffy" i/c the team in customary RAF fashion - "Hello Sailor!" in a high pitched squeaky voice. Unfortunately one of the FAA pilots had just walked into the hangar and he was much displeased at this disrespect for the senior service and had me hauled up before our Flight Commander. "Sergeant Blacksheep, do you disrespect the Royal Navy?" "No Sir! My father was a Yeoman of Signals and anything that's good enough for him is good enough for me." "Dismissed!"

Great guys? I'd describe this "great guy" with a different word, beginning with "W" and ending in "er". :rolleyes:

[downsizer]

What this thread is lacking is any reference to airworthiness, then it's ticked all the boxes...:hmm:

[taxydual]

Right, the Op Corporate and 32 Sqn **** stirring has gone far enough!

FOR THE RECORD.

I (plus 2 other guys) were flown by 32 Sqn HS125 from RAF Brize Norton to RAF Gibraltar late April 1982. We were given 3 hours notice to move. The car journey from RAF Upavon to RAF Brize Norton will always be remembered. We were carrying TS Crypto for use by the first elements of the Taskforce.

The Transflight Signal that initiated the whole journey was sent Flash (the first Flash Signal I had ever seen) and was codeworded Op Corporate. I know because I wrote the signal. I was countersigned by MALM K** B*******, the DOpsO.

The third memorable thing about the whole tasking was that the co-pilot of the HS125 was a Flt Lt F**** M******** who I had not seen since the pair of us had passed out from an AATC Course at RAF Shawbury some years earlier.

Surely to God, end this public spat. It serves no purpose.

[Dual ground]

As an ex-member of the RAF can I just say that this little spat makes me very happy.

Very happy that I reached the dizzying rank of Corporal.

Officer class?

Classless officers maybe closer to the mark.....

[Spiro]

^^ As sweeping generalisations go, not bad Dual Ground. Next you will tell us is that NCO's are sooo much better:hmm:

32's Op record speaks for itself. Just because it isn't splattered across the front of RAF news each month and we don't shout about what we do, don't assume we haven't got a role to play.

Adeste Comites

[4mastacker]

..............................flown by 32 Sqn HS125 from RAF Brize Norton to RAF Gibraltar late April 1982. We were given 3 hours notice to move.

Is 32 Sqn an American sponsored sqn? I seem to remember the rest of the RN, Army and RAF getting involved at the beginning of April. Techies and stackers alike were running around Scampton on the first weekend of the month gathering bits from the Vulcan hulks on Delta and Echo and sending them across to Waddo, in addition to getting other bits produced by the fairies in the middle of the airfield down to Portsmouth for fitting to several major ships.

Spare us the willy-waving. Everyone who was around at the time made a contribution to Op Corporate so to claim that some were more special than others ('Them' excepted) is a fatuous comment at the very least. I've said my piece now I'm out of it!

4ma

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

4ma,

Very nicely put chap :D

[bast0n]

Oh please keep it going!

To watch all these Crabs having such a wonderful hissy fit is so good for the soul...................:)

[taxydual]

4ma

It was late April. It took a wee time for certain ships to be abeam Gib on the way down south.

And yes, Everyone who was around at the time made a contribution.

[Union Jack]

To watch all these Crabs having such a wonderful hissy fit is so good for the soul...................

BastOn

Cartoon please, pretty please......:E

Jack

[Wokkafans]

http://www.antiguamuseums.org/images/SoldierCrabs%282%29.jpg

Brachyura argumenticus

These crabs may be seen crawling with their borrowed aircraft far from the ocean. Due to the scarcity or disappearance of aircraft these days because of financial cuts the crab on the left has found an old plastic cab! Also known as Land Crabs, as their name suggests they live most of the time inland and only return to the sea for a short time to find their sea legs. Some young may become members of the FAA but recently even these have been forced to take up life on dry land due to the loss of their traditional aquatic habitat.

The 'Plastic Cab' appears to be the popular choice for many young crabs. However, as they grow they have to seek out new larger aircraft, the Hercules being a popular choice for the bigger individuals of the species. It can be quite a performance finding an aircraft these days, these being in increasingly short supply, so they quickly move into their new home before fellow cannibalistic crabs, who might well want the same, eat them!

:E

[Union Jack]

Cartoon please, pretty please......

Looks like BastOn has a rival - and he has a way with words too - BZ Wokafans!:ok:

Jack

[bast0n]

UJ - he is good!

I am currently away from my box of hissy fit Crabs but am home next week. Perhaps the debate may have got even fiercer by then - waving bags of imprest at each other to see whose is bigger....................:ok:

[cazatou]

bast0n

Or perhaps "Winco" might do some research and learn about "The King's Flight" and its role in WW2 when it formed the nucleus of 161 Sqn which earned its keep by inserting Secret Agents into enemy occupied territory - as well as collecting escaped POW's and Aircrews who had evaded capture after bailing out over enemy held territory.

The original Sqn Cdr was the "Captain of the King's Flight" - a title which he retained as it was bestowed by the Court and not the RAF. Another distinguished pilot became ACM Sir Lewis Hodges KCB,CBE,DSO and bar, DFC and bar, Grand Officier de la Legion d'Honneur, Croix de Guerre.

One young Fg Off Pilot with a DFC was recorded in the Line Book in 1943 as saying -"You feel a bit naked with just one gong" !! Not all the pilots were British - Lt Per Hysing-Dahl (a Norwegian Pilot) later became a member of the Norwegian Parliament.

PS Just how many hostile submarines have RAF MPA destroyed since the end of WW2?