Best buddies with France now?

[Yozzer]

I cannot but help think that a special (working) relationship with a country with whom we do not even share a common language is flawed at many levels. .....and working on their terms would be worse than working with the British Army, and thats pretty bad. Might be some merit in wine with lunch followed by a siesta though, perhaps I need to think out-of-the-box on this one. WTF has become of 'Rule Brittania?'.

[Trim Stab]

FFS, get over it. We've been working with the French for years, at many different levels, and it works well. Anybody who has actually worked with the French military that I have met has really enjoyed it.

The DSL is going to have to gear up French teaching, but French is a lot easier to learn than German, and we managed fine in BAOR for years. Any youngster who wants a long career in the military should get themselves on a French exchange posting ASAP as cooperation is going to get a lot closer over the next twenty years.

[labrador pup]

Don't know what has happened to Brittania, but Britannia still rules the waves (just!) :ok:

[F3sRBest]

WTF has become of 'Rule Brittania?'.

Realism! That's what!

[Tankertrashnav]

As a teacher of French I have to agree with the remarks about learning the language. The British and French are the two worst countries in Europe when it comes to learning foreign languages. I would say that basic military French should form a part of the training programme at officer level at least, and personnel should be actively encouraged to continue to improve their proficiency throughout their service.

When my own son was at Brunssum (in Holland) he studied for, and passed, GCSE Dutch, but was given no encouragement at all by his superiors who thought it peculiar that an NCO should want to learn a foreign language. Of course if he'd wanted to go on a sailing course it would have been a different matter - sailing being far more important to a REME NCO than language skills:ugh:

[ORAC]

C'est Magnifique, Mais Ce N'est Pas la Guerre...

Entente Cordiale vs the Special Relationship. (http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3a0ffbe8d9-2c3f-47f9-967a-f773340f2754&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest) :confused:

[teeteringhead]

I know life has changed since the Cold War, but didn't Sir Humphrey Appleby once describe the role of NATO in Europe thus:

"To keep the Americans in, the Russians out ........ and the French down!" :ok:

[extpwron]

Perhaps now they will apologise for this outburst:

YouTube - monty python and the holy grail (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl8H-rm6kt4)

[ORAC]

Sir Humphrey Appleby

wltv12Hx9Bo

[Descend to What Height?!?]

Was it Yes Minister, or Yes Prime Minister, where Sir Humphry went on to explain that the only reason the UK had an independent nuclear deterrent, was to deter the French. He went on to say that it was extremley effective, as this was the longest period in recorded history that England and France had not been at war.......

Joke going around the crew room this morning, that there will soon be yet another competition to fill a vacant plinth in Traffalga Square. The one at the top of the column, as the PC lobby in Westminster will take Lord Nelson down, so not to offend our "new friends."

[1.3VStall]

Anyone remember the Anglo-French Frigate project in the early 90s. Of course it was quickly christened the "Frogate"!

[ScufferEng]

Could do wonders for In-flight rations. to say nothing for Rat Packs! and aircrew could report for duty un-shaven. Thats morale sorted then.:D

[minigundiplomat]

aircrew could report for duty un-shaven. Thats morale sorted then


Or we could employ conscripts as blunties and work them 12 hours a day - and beat them when they screw up. Now that would be morale sorted.

[2Planks]

Wise words on getting proficient in French as the BBC have just stated that a general commanding any joint force would have to speak both English and French. Having kicked around NATO for a while I suspect a lot more French generals speak english than vice versa. No surprises if requirement creep for this skill moves down teh rank scale! Also I believe that most French folk under 30 now take learning english very seriously, the view above that the 2 countries are the worst for learning a foreign language now, sadly, only applies to the country north of La Manche (IMHO). :E

PS Do we now need a smily wearing a beret??

[moggiee]

I feel more comfortable about working WITH the French than FOR the Americans!

[Lower Hangar]

Hear, hear

Lower Hangar

[gunbus]

Has everyone forgotten the french supplying the Argies with Exocets,up front then through the back door,I bloody haven't

[moggiee]

Has everyone forgotten the french supplying the Argies with Exocets,up front then through the back door,I bloody haven't
I believe that this particular myth was debunked on this forum a short while ago. The real problems were reputed to be the Spanish and Italians - both of whom have strong historical links to Argentina.

[gunbus]

MOGGIEE,
Thanks for that I stand corrected,if that is the case.:ok:

[cazatou]

gunbus

It seems that you have forgotten that the French carried out simulated attacks on the Task Force with their Super Etendards as it sailed South to liberate the Falklands. The same level of co-operation as the Belgians provided when they detatched their Mirage 5's to Lossie to work up the Sea Harriers. Of course I appreciate that one should never let facts get in the way of good old fashioned xenophobic bigotry.

[moggiee]

I'm always a bit reluctant to quote wikipedia but this artice would infer that whilst the Argentinians tried to get hold of additional missles, they were unsuccessful. I think the story about the French comes from one of the good old redtop tabloids.

Exocet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exocet#Falklands_War)

[TEEEJ]

Gunbus,

See following

How France helped us win Falklands war, by John Nott - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1387576/How-France-helped-us-win-Falklands-war-by-John-Nott.html)

TJ

[gunbus]

CAZATOU MOGGIEE and TEEEJ,

I bow my head in defeat,your superiour, knowledge has me at a distinct disadvantag

[Scotch Bonnet]

148 of us got trooped to DMA Arizona two years ago by the French Air Force in a relatively modern Airbus from Stansted via Montreal. The trip was excellent, three main course meals with wine plus snacks on demand. The staff were well trained, motivated, and worked hard to ensure the trip was comfortable. The senior air hostess rather than spending the whole trip reconciling the imprest account and making sure all allowances had been claimed bustled around dispensing good will and bonhomie. The arrival was bang on time without even a hint of bust crew duty hours or unservicabilities. Given the choice......

[Airborne Aircrew]

The point that many seem to be missing here it that Great Britain, once the most powerful nation in the world, is now relying on another nation for their defence. A nation that, whether you are a "Modern European" or not, is a historic enemy.

What happened to our once great nation?

[gunbus]

Sold Out By The Last Apology Of A Governmet

[Easy Street]

Don't forget the leaks to Serbia in the run-up to Kosovo:

BBC News | Europe | French officer 'spied for Serbs' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/206625.stm)

I know that we had our own security issue recently with a dodgy interpreter. It was nothing compared with a general leaking the whole target list, though!

Despite the public support for the treaty from Washington, I wonder how the Americans will feel about F-35C landing on the Charles de Gaulle? This will be more grist to the mill in the source code transfer argument.

[Tankertrashnav]

I wonder how the Americans will feel about F-35C landing on the Charles de Gaulle?

I wonder what Charles de Gaulle would have thought about it?

[Postman Plod]

Gunbus, whilst the last apology of a government might have screwed us, its this apology of a government that has sold us out, without asking us or telling us, even the day before, let alone when we had an opportunity to evaluate and vote on it at the election!

If it was Liebour or the Limp Dims doing this, I wouldn't have been overly surprised, but the CONservatives? I bet 90% of the Tory party wouldn't have voted for that one...

[ian16th]

In the days before in-flight refueling the RAF operated what was effectively a Staging Post, under the title of the Royal Air Force Liaison Party at Base Aerienne 125 Istres and from April 1958 at Base Aerienne 115 Orange-Caritat.

The RAF and the l'Armie de l'Air worked well together and played well together.

We also ate well together in their mess.

I know, because I was there.

The best year of my 13 years service.

[ColinB]

Surely bidets must be standard fittings on French warships and the major question must be will the British ever come to terms with using the bidet except to wash their socks in?

[BEagle]

Standards appear to have slipped in the Armée de l'Air these days - I visited them earlier in the year and was disturbed to note that wine was no longer on the Mess tables at lunch time.

It seems that they too have their share of fun-detectors. Dommage!

[jindabyne]

That reminds me of diverting into Istres en-route Honington to Deci in '77. My back-seater's O2 hose unknowingly became disconnected, and he became severly anoxic. After landing, the frogs whipped him into sick bay, whilst I was left to turn the aircraft round. That done, I thought I'd better go and see how C-S was doing. Should I have worried - there he was, propped up in bed, supping a nice glass of vin rouge. Well revived, we were then taken to the frog mess for a tasty lunch, washed down with another couple of bottles of the stuff. An hour or so later, we took off and departed low level across the ogg to Sardinia. Way to go!!

How he then almost killed me a few days later with an empty gas bottle on introducing me to Scuba diving is another story.

[threeputt]

There was also the rumour going around the CAOC at Vicensa that copies of the ATO were getting into Serb hands, via the Frech LO's.

3P:suspect:

[Doctor Cruces]

I suppose that means their government will demand we surrender as soon as the fighting starts, especially if Paris may be damaged, and all the gallant French military will congregate on English soil again (very welcome too) and those brave souls who cannot get away to fight will set up resistance cells.

The French are very good at sinking defenceless Greenpeace ships and braeking sanctions in order to sell arms but let's hope their government will show more backbone if a genuine shooting war starts again.

I really admire the French people, I have worked with their military and with civilians in airline life, it's their governments I don't trust.

Doc C

[Pelikanpete]

As a former military man who has worked with the French (and enjoyed the experience):

The last war with the French was nearly two hundred years ago. We have had almost continuous treaties and co-operation since then (Crimean War onwards). Britannia can't afford to rule anything on our own and have not been able to for some time. Pooling some resources and sharing technology does not in any way mean we cannot act alone if we want to (though another Falklands type action has been beyond our capability for many years already). Sierra Leone type intervention will continue to be within our capabilities. It does however mean we can save some money that can be used elsewhere for other (possibly) more important military capabilities.

As regards language - previously English has been used as the "operational language" (just like in aviation) - so lucky us, although there is no reason why we can't learn some French.

The French are our most logical choice of ally (and likely a more equal relationship than with the U.S.) Our military has been hollowed out (like a rotten log) for many decades now - tough decisions needed to be made, instead of burying our heads in the sand whilst waving our flag patriotically.

[green granite]

This is not a first, during the first world war we used the Japanese navy to protect shipping around Australia and New Zealand.

[Scotch Bonnet]

On HIGNFY last week same wag said, "going to war with wth the French was like going duck hunting with an accordian" I thought that was quite funny.

[Tankertrashnav]

Attributed to Gen 'Stormin Norman' Schwarzkopf, I believe, SB.

[hueyracer]

Remember my words.........:

"There has never been anything good coming from France........"


I don´t believe that things will change......

[glad rag]

Just got to look how much lip service they give to the EU to know this is going to end in tears....

[Siggie]

Never fly over France with your bomb bay closed, you never know, they may change the ROEs and you wouldn't want to miss your chance.

[LeCrazyFrog]

Funny to see how any chat about France ends up with white flag techniques and all the bladibla... :ugh:

An this just because you can't get over the fact that Britannia doesn't rule anything anymore, that at least there are some clearvisionng people that command you that know the only choice is to share the misery with the frogs and are fed up to be the "special friend's poodle" (F35s anyone?)

And if you want to get historic, had you lost that little brawl off the coast of Portugal 200 years ago, now you would be speaking a nice language, eating delicious food and wine enjoying the company of nice looking girls....:E

[lederhosen]

ow meni wars la belle France she azz wun rissantli wizzout elp ov perfidious rosbifs eh? u tel me zat monsieur froggy!

[Jackonicko]

The last war with the French was nearly two hundred years ago.

Apart from the minor unpleasantness in North Africa with the Vichy forces, and Oran, etc.

Gunbus, whilst the last apology of a government might have screwed us, its this apology of a government that has sold us out, without asking us or telling us, even the day before, let alone when we had an opportunity to evaluate and vote on it at the election!

If it was Liebour or the Limp Dims doing this, I wouldn't have been overly surprised, but the CONservatives? I bet 90% of the Tory party wouldn't have voted for that one...

True that it is this Government doing the selling out, but I'm astonished that anyone should be surprised.

The Tories have always talked the talk on defence while swinging the axe most savagely. Frontline First and Options were far more swingeing than Blair's SDR, and this little graph from the Economist (and repeated by the Daily Telegraph) tells an interesting story on Defence Spending, if you look carefully at what happened in Labour's time in office, compared to what was happening before.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3395/3304558624_dc9ebe206a_o.jpg

[FantomZorbin]

With respect Jackonicko, the graph is slightly skewed by the funding of a war.

[LeCrazyFrog]

ow meni wars la belle France she azz wun rissantli wizzout elp ov perfidious rosbifs eh? u tel me zat monsieur froggy!

:D See?

Still not answering my point...:ugh:

[Jackonicko]

Fantom, costs of operations not included.

Just look at the force structure reductions under Options and Frontline First, and the much lighter pruning under SDR.

It may not be comfortable, especially for those of us who actually vote Conservative, for whatever reason, but when it comes to Defence, they really are not our friends!

[FantomZorbin]

Jackonicko
I stand corrected:O

I agree with you regarding the track record of Labour vs Tories. It's been thus for at least the last 40yrs at least as far as my pay chit was concerned!

[lederhosen]

Actually grenouille folle old chap I am afraid I am struggling to identify which point you mean. By my counting you make at least three points and your grammar and punctuation do not make it clear that you are looking for an answer. For what it is worth I think we can agree that the UK and France need to work together as indeed they have done for most of the last hundred years.