BRNC Dartmouth

[Fake Sealion]

Read with dismay the story in the Sunday Times yesterday about a statement this week announcing the closure of BRNC Dartmouth.

Must be many BRNC old boys & girls out there in Pruneland?

Sad news indeed....most of us look back on our time spent there with fondness?

[Old-Duffer]

Despite being a crab, I have great regard and affection for the RN and am disappointed with this news. I find it difficult to believe that BRNC = 2 carriers or anywhere near it in cost terms, even if Dartmouth needed a major revamp (which it might).

The advantage of places like Dartmouth, Sandhurst and Cranwell is their ambience. They are not simply used for training young officers but also as a showcase for the services to entertain others etc. Nobody could say that places like Manadon (HMS Thunderer), Mons OCS/Eaton Hall or RAF OCTU/ITS at places various, had any real character about them. The three services colleges certainly do.

Where will the RN go now? Those two old hulks moored in the Dart went about 100 years ago!

Perhaps we shall see a 'single gate' armed forces academy before much longer!

O-D

[Jumping_Jack]

Steady chaps, don't let SOSL see this thread......:hmm:

[Fake Sealion]

JJ - SOSL? - you'll have to enlighten us

[T-21]

Its getting scary is Cranwell next ?? morale must be low,not good for front line personnel.

[LookingNorth]

Crying shame. What soulless prefab box will they use instead??

[6Z3]

BRNC? Dreadful place. Feel nothing but contempt for the place. Nevertheless, I'm surprised there's any savings to be had by closing it down; I thought it was mostly funded by the International students whose govts pay bucketloads for the privelege of BRNC's apparent prestige.

[airborne_artist]

Where did the ST suggest that BRNC would re-locate to?

The last I read, a while back, was that AIB and all leadership training (lower deck included) would be moved to Dartmouth, which makes some sense, and I guess justifies the cost/utilisation of the estate.

I would be really quite surprised if BRNC left Dartmouth.

[Toddington Ted]

So would I AA. I must admit it brings back memories, not all of them wonderful! :{ I do recall however being on parade on occasions listening to trains leaving Kingswear Stn and wondering which GWR steam locomotive was doing the work! (The military has never eradicated that aspect of my persona, I continue to inflict steam railways on any poor sod within earshot!) BRNC is an iconic place in a lovely part of England. It has kudos rather like Cranwell and Sandhurst and we are lucky to have them. CHOM of course was only built because Sir Samuel Hoare didn't wait for the General Election and got the foundation stone laid prior to the election as a "fait accompli."

[SOSL]

If they do it it will be a crass disregard for the value of long standing tradition on morale and backbone.

A cowardly political expedient for which the so called savings will be negligible in comparison with the glaring idiocy of so many procurement decisions made by senior military, civil service and political individuals.

This would be vandalism of a high order which could never be recovered or recompensed.

Next they'll be closing Cranwell for goodness sake!

Sandhurst will be OK till we get out of the 'Stan, unless we pick up any other little errands for the USA.

SOS

[teeteringhead]

They didn't call Hoare "Soapy Sam" for nothing - he was the Mandleson of his time!

Today's Torygraph also covers BRNC closure - without saying where a replacement would be.

Have to agree that single-Service "front gates" are essential, not only for zobs but for blighters/jacks/erks too. (IMHO)

It's all about the ethoi... (plural of ethos, I've been waiting for years to use it!)

[grandfer]

On the local West Country news they were on about BRNC relocating to Torpoint .:hmm:

[airborne_artist]

I can only imagine that their Warships looked at Raleigh and looked at Dartmouth, and decided that they could send the baby officers to Raleigh and keep a straight face, but couldn't tolerate the idea of Jack learning to march/wash/iron at Dartmouth.

[Dengue_Dude]

Now that is sad.

I was at BRNC (Blake Division) in 1969 and remember with pleasure (now), EMAs, ABAs and Kai and winged collars and divisions and and . . .

Listening to the Marine band playing Hearts of Oak early in the mornings waiting to do the march past gave many of us a misty eye.

I won't miss polishing that bloody cannon and brass bell though.

Best wishes to all . . . (who remembers Kitchen rudder gear boats then?)

[airborne_artist]

I was at BRNC (Blake Division) in 1969

and I was in Blake from April 78 to December of that year.

My father was a 13 y/o entry in 1947, in Hawke. His entry was joined by the first of the 16 y/o entry, and 18 y/o entry was well, and I think not long after he entered BRNC they finished the 13 y/o entry for ever.

[whiskers123]

Hope they don't get rid of it, IOT wouldn't be the same without all the traditions and history there. BRNC was my first time away from home for more than a week. Joined 23 Sept 01, just after 9/11 and quite a few didn't turn up.

Just remember on the first night to assemble on the quarterdeck in 4's - all we had was a pile of uniform and no instructions as to what went with what!!!

Cunningham Sqn Sept 01 - Aug 02.

[green granite]

So how many officers a year do you need to recruit to keep 22 ships afloat? Not that many, so perhaps they could return to Greenwich.

[glad rag]

Well said SOSL, well said.
Sometimes being immersed in tradition IS necessary.
Look at the decimation of the RAF's aircraft engineering trade training, both 1 and 2 Schools of Technical Training gone. They (we) didn't just learn tech there, the installation of self discipline (even on the FT's like me) was noteable and having "worked" along side todays yoof in various location in the UK they just ain't got it when the chips are down.:(

[goldenrivet]

latest from navynet,via bbc is that it is possible might be jorno stirring,hope so.:suspect:

[oldpinger]

Outraged of Australia writes...:mad:

I was there in 88, my great grandfather in about 1900, just after they got rid of the hulks in the Dart. Good thing we're getting rid of all that history to save some idiots political hide!

Maybe they good use the Ark Royal tied up in the river as a training hulk......:yuk:

[Bismark]

The problem with BRNC is that it is a Grade 2* listed building and the insides can't be touched.....not many hotels would want 200+ 8'x10' rooms!!

[green granite]

The problem with BRNC is that it is a Grade 2* listed building and the insides can't be touched.....not many hotels would want 200+ 8'x10' rooms!!

Sorry not true.

Listing simply means that changes to a building are subject to control through the planning system. The council as planning authority will give approval for works only if it is satisfied that these are compatible with the special interest of the building. Others may be involved in this decision, including English Heritage and the DCMS for the higher graded buildings. It is up to the applicant for listed building consent to make out the case for change. There are many examples of listed buildings that have undergone major alterations because the local Council has supported the need for them to play a new role if they are to survive.

[NURSE]

wonder if there will be a joint tech college and officer training centre at St Athan?

[parabellum]

Could it be that RN Officer training has been 'out-sourced' to, say, India?:confused:

[airborne_artist]

The problem with BRNC is that it is a Grade 2* listed building and the insides can't be touched.....not many hotels would want 200+ 8'x10' rooms!!

As above, not true. The planners/conservation officers would seek to maintain the facade and key interior features/spaces (Chapel, Quarterdeck etc) but all the accommodation floors would be fair game for changes.

Admiral of the Fleet Sir Caspar John (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspar_John) must be turning in his grave - no way would CJH survive a developer's demolition hammer.

[Fake Sealion]

If we accept its closure as a given, then the concern will be to develop the existing buildings in an appropriate way.

I note with some amusement that the patron of the Britannia Association is none other than the Prince of Wales!!!

The media are going to have a field day with this one as Charles wades in during the planning application phase - attacking everything he disapproves of and vetting every window frame and door handle :rolleyes:

This place is very special to many of us and to the Prince it has personal connections with himself, his father, his uncle Louis, his brother and his son (I think? Even his mum is reputed to have first met his dad during a College visit in 1939 !

I for one would not be averse to living out my days in a pleasant Dart view apartment at "The Britannia" or whatever the marketing people will call it:ok:

I think however I might need a giant Stannah Stairlift to get to from Sand Quay!

How about BRNC OUTs being offered first preference or a discount:ok:

[airborne_artist]

No mention of BRNC closing in this afternoon's announcement?

[tangoe]

Quoted from South Devon news, sport and entertainment | This Is South Devon (http://www.thisissouthdevon.co.uk)

"Yes, well as Sarah Wollaston has said, after a meeting with Liam Fox, Dartmouth is safe. So this is a no story basically. I don't know why she is scare mungaring to be honest".

THE closure of Britannia Royal Naval College in Dartmouth would be devastating for the town, says Totnes MP Sarah Wollaston. (http://www.thisissouthdevon.co.uk/news/Naval-college-closure-devastate-town/article-2770681-detail/article.html)

[kiwi grey]

Airborne Artist said
I was in Blake from April 78 to December of that year.
My father was a 13 y/o entry in 1947, in Hawke. His entry was joined by the first of the 16 y/o entry, and 18 y/o entry was well, and I think not long after he entered BRNC they finished the 13 y/o entry for ever.

My Dad was a Blake, entering as a 13 y/o in 1933 or 1934.
He will be 90 in December and is, I'm afraid, the last man standing of his class, which was, umm, rather depleted by the war.
He started his combat service as an Observer in Swordfish, and shortly before he retired got to ride as GIB on a Phantom. From 120 kts downhill with a tail wind to Mach 2 in one career :ok:

[Fake Sealion]

Good news - The Sunday Times and Telegraph got it wrong. Very unusual for the latter when it comes to defence matters?

BRNC lives on. . . . . . for now

[Firestorm]

Blake Division (after Op Holdover in 1985) from September 1985 to December 1986. Close Dartmouth? Is nothing sacred? Even the suggestion is appalling!

[Yeoman_dai]

Shame I didn't see this earlier, i'm currently in Ark Royal Division - the older amongst you will know it as the BRNC Flight - and could have told you it wouldn't be closing. They've just built a new high ropes course up by the lower playing field, and have plans to build 6x new messes each to house an entire Division, like D93 ("the zoo") does nowadays.

[airborne_artist]

They've just built a new high ropes course up by the lower playing field, and have plans to build 6x new messes each to house an entire Division, like D93 ("the zoo") does nowadays.

YD - you have a lot to learn. The RAF never closes an airfield unless the runways have just been re-surfaced, the messes re-furbished, and the gym brought up to date.

[Gryphon14]

st athans is dead and gone. The money that foreign students and the prestige that their governments appropriate be to BRNC will be one hell of an argument to keep the place running. Very cheap considering the influence around the world it gives UK PLC

[Fake Sealion]

Good point from airborne artist.
Fine example was the huge new accommodation building project at Portland Naval Base in the late 80s. That didn't last too long before the axe fell.

Heard its all been converted to appartments now and will be used for 2012 Olympics yachty goings on?

[Yeoman_dai]

Gryphon - the next intake (jan) will be 40 British cadets and 60 internationals. Plus we have two divisions from the Saudi Navy on a different bespoke course running simultaneously.

We were told 1 Int cadet pays for 5 of us

[helen-damnation]

Good God Man. Keep it quiet, it Whitehall knows we're in profit it'll be the end of us :E

[airborne_artist]

With the possible exception of the House of Saud, very few governments are totally safe, so the income from foreign cadets isn't very easy to forecast. I often wonder how many of the Iranian OUTs at BRNC in the late 70s kept their heads post-revolution - they'd been paying for the place at the time.

[John Eacott]

As it was in the 60's: we had quite a few Internationals, the most noteworthy in Grenville Division 1967 was a Trinidad & Tobago Coastguard cadet with whom I shared a cabin. When selecting cadets for the inter divisional sports the call went around for a javelin thrower; his response......

"Throw the javelin? I can hit a white man at a hundred paces!" :p

[Dengue_Dude]

"Throw the javelin? I can hit a white man at a hundred paces!" Brilliant!

In the summer of 69 (hmmm, I'm sure there's a song in there somewhere . ..)

. . . I shared my cabin with a Nigerian cadet - Lucas Marasambo Lenjo, who had similar attributes !

Genuinely in the dark, I could only see his eyes and his teeth - it was something we used to laugh about - I was easy to spot!!!

[Fake Sealion]

In my time in Cunningham 77/78, recall that on a Senior Rounds once, a roll of banknotes was found casually lying in the cabinet over the basin in a mixed RN and Iranian Navy juniors cabin. It was 6 or 7 hundred quid.
That was a lot of money in those days and the Iranian owner just didn't see what all the fuss was about !

We had quite a mix of nationalities but Iranians I think formed the largest contingent - quite a few West Africans too.

On the whole the internationals were OK blokes-but their willingness to get stuck into hard physical stuff was somewhat patchy as I recall.:)

Seem to remember an incident when a bootneck pushed an Iranian a bit too hard when climbing Sandquay steps on an EMA. Poor chap keeled over. That must have caused a bit of a do at the Foreign Office!:=

[MPN11]

Phew ... having read the whole thread my emotions went from disbelief to intense relief! I know some things are having to change, but some are beyond contemplation.


Hawke Division, 1963/64, in those happy days when all the FAA cadets were up the hill in Temeraire Block and well away from assorted Fisheads :)

[Yeoman_dai]

Internationals never change it seems.... most nowadays are from Oman and Quatar, although we've seen an increase in September of Iraqi Navy. Some excellent, some not so excellent...

[Gnd]

Oh the Castle, Nigel - how I will miss thee!!

[Wrathmonk]

we've seen an increase in September of Iraqi Navy

Are they all going home on graduation? There was a very strong rumour that one of their Army colleagues on a recent year long 'grown ups' reading, writing and listening course at Shrivenham failed to return home after graduation (or should that be on completion of attendance :E) and instead claimed "squatters rights" in his FQ and sought political asylum for him and his family.