QR Cpt death on board

[bigbear71]

Hi there

Any news on this
Pilot dies on Qatar Airways flight- Transport -ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/pilot-dies-on-qatar-airways-flight-356420.html)

[HERC]

Just heard off Al Jazeera that a Qatar Airways airplane landed at Kualalumpur as a pilot onboard died.

Any updates on the news???

[Capt Krunch]

A330 Indian Capt 7000+ staff number
Heart Attack.
MNL to DOH flight, F/O landed in KUL.

My Condolences to the family, he was still a young man.

[Hakeem]

My Condolences to the family.....

[777boyindubai]

God bless him and his family

[Radar Contact]

Was it Captain. PRADHAN?

[Bluebull]

May God look after him and his family

[JungleJett]

May God Almighty bless his soul and give his family the strength to overcome this difficult time.

JJ

[PIPE RIDER]

I am very sad, really sad. We have lost an excellent colleague
Excellent as a person and as a pilot, who managed to live happily staying away from all the nonsense that is around this environment, who loved to fly and knew how to share time with his mates.

Have a great trip, and we will always remember the good times, experiences and teaching on how to live simple....

bye

[IndAir967]

Deepest condolences to the family and friends..

[old747man]

Ajay u will be missed......

[QR UNITED 2009]

Rest in peace and god bless you . We will miss you

[parabellum]

Airline captain dies during flight | Adelaide Now (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/breaking-news/airline-captain-dies-during-flight/story-e6frea73-1225938451033)

[a345xxx]

My deepest condolences to his family... RIP

[beezjet]

A great guy with a great personality...
Deepest condolence to his family and friends...
May you rest in peace buddy

[Left Wing]

Qatar Airways pilot dies mid-flight (http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/qatar/129158-qatar-airways-pilot-dies-mid-flight-.html)

[A300Man]

I assume the QR645 from MNL is still ops 333/332 these days, and not 77W? Therefore, did this Captain come from the A320 fleet initially to A330? If it's who I think it is, he was indeed a lovely guy and this is very sad news indeed. My best regards and wishes to his family and to all the crew involved in the incident. Take care all.

[CI999]

my deepest condolence, my heart gose to friends and family.

BUT
WHY diversion to KUL! is it dispatch or FO decision? KUL is wayyy toooo far in such a case.

QR may be sued for such a deicision. and here where it comes the quality of managment, dispatch, crew, training that have been talking about for years.....

[Tintin]

CI999

How do you know wish route they where flying on???

[CI999]

been there done that, million times, its should never come close to KUL, may be OVDH BKK. but never that far south. no mattar what the upper wind spd.

check loft wind for asia SIGWX (http://www.aeromet.tmd.go.th/model/Asia_340.asp)

[sec 3]

Don't get yourself into a tizzy over where they landed. You should be more worried about your useless football team:E

[Payscale]

CI999 give it at rest buddy... stop second guessing his decisions.

[smartpilot]

Looks like the OCC for the 1st time got involved and took optimum decision, KUL was chosen for crew replacement, all crews avail in BKK are 777 only.


At the end the concern should be about the loss not the diversion.
We lost a young colleague, and our prayers and good reputation are the only things left behind him.

RIP!

[shemaid]

Condolence to the family of Capt Ajay Kumar.

I have to agree with C1999. KUL is way too far the MNL-DOH route.
I guess it was OCC's decision.
As stated by SMARTPILOT, KUL was chosen for crew replacement. No second guessing there.
This is the second time were OCC got involved in a decision relating to death on board.
2 years ago a QR B777 had pax death on board (declared dead by doctor on board) enroute to New York. It happened 3 hours after airborne. OCC's decision was to continiue the flight to New York.
The dead pax was laid in the galley & covered with blanket the remainder of the flight.
My opinion: poor decision by OCC. It saved the company $s, but hygiene & health, having a dead person in the galley.... ahh... very bad!

My only question is: was Capt Ajay declared dead by a doctor on board?

[Jetbuster]

Let us honour the Captain that passed away and in respect of his memory and family refrain from flamatory rhetoric(CI999) on this thread.

[Qatari515]

My condolences to the family, may he RIP!

A doctor on board indeed took care of the formalities. A sad story that should be a wake up call to all of us! Carpe Diem...As it might be over before you realise it.

Lets all donate generously for his family, so at least that is one thing less to worry about.

[scandicstar]

Well, what I ve heard from the reliable sources that they request BKK for in flt diversion but BKK refused landing due to certain reasons and also the replacement crew were aval at KUL. I was in KUL the afternoon of the said incident after the aircraft landed in KUL for bodevac Correct me if I m wrong

[RemoveB4Flght]

I read the first page of this, and thought to myself, "how great that everyone can stop the petty remarks on a single thread, and have so many positive things to say about a fellow aviator."

How about we try to keep that tone going and save the logistical atuff for another thread.

[Jetjock330]

I don't know any of the crew, but I say RIP to the Captain. You seemed to to be well liked and well respected Captain. A sad loss indeed!

As for the F/O, well done, you did your job, a safe landing. I can't think that any of the 260 passengers would worry about where they landed single crew, so long as they landed safely. For this, the new commander deserves applause.

There are many factors to consider, crew experience, availability of an airfield (KUL is better than Kathmandu for example), weather, type of approach, planning, over weight landing???? many things and on top this, he just wants to get it onto the ground, no doubt so many radio transmission interruptions. Well done I say:ok:

[smartpilot]

well said remove B4 flight, jetjock330 & kijangnim

[MAKAVELI320]

Well said the last two post its time to remember the captain and to give the surport to his family RIP

[Hamid_27]

Rest In Peace Captain,
Im sure he was an outstanding pilot/husband/father.

My deepest sympathy for the family and friends.

[Alcatraz69]

Stop this nonsense of calculating miles to divert!.

They did a good job and that's it

Just say some prayers to the loved ones!

[sandman330]

CI999..... need to get your facts right before you start pointing your finger..

everyone is an expert with their feet firm on the ground.

OCC made the decision to go to KUL, crew mentioned BKK several times.

My condolences to the Captain Ajay, your a great guy, our thoughts are with you and your family.

[motley flight crue]

If the Capt. is really sick/dying, put out a mayday and land at the nearest suitable. Who cares about crew replacements, your dealing with a life. I wouldn't even get company involved until after landing. Your paid to make these decisions, not some fat money hungry pencil pusher sitting in a leather chair.

[a330flyer]

We remember a good colleague and all my sympathies go to the family.

...but I completely agree with motley f.c..
my choice after the water would have been a city in Vietnam...declare emergency, nose down, land, get an ambulance...then talk to the company!

[jimmyg]

My Condolences;

I can only assume that defibulators are still not required equipment as they can save many lives

[40&80]

It appears QR have handled this tragedy well.... no time was wasted in flying the Captain home to his parents or in contacting his wife.
I just hope QR has life insurance in place on its crews...if only accident insurance... I fear a heart attack will not trigger a payment to his family.
This opens up again the debate of the wisdom of a married pilot having life insurance instead of only loss of licence insurance if he cannot afford or is not provided by his employer with both.
How a company treats it's staff and their family at time of high stress is a test GF often failed in the past... especially in the case of my friend the late Captain Gammage.

[smartpilot]

well said 40&80 and in the right place, much better than inquiring about the diversion airport.

[loc22550]

Motley flight crue / a330flyer: make sense to me as well..:hmm:
Kijangnim: at the CLOSEST point KUL is situated ..600+NM!..south of the MNL-DOH route..just for your info..Is there any closer suitable airport on this route ...?:bored:
Lets just hope crew did a "good" job as you mention... :uhoh:

[STD]

Might be the type of flying we all do in the ME (back of the clock).

It's not good for the heart...

My Condolences for the family..:(

[Sky Dancer]

May his soul rest in peace and the comfort of the Almighty be with his family.Let us believe that the airline and his colleagues did their best to save the life of a fellow aviator.But then, God decided to take our fellow aviator to an airfield where the weather is always fine , the runways as long as you want and the frills the best you can get.Good memories for a good man.:ok:

[Boomerang_Butt]

Sorry for a slight thread drift, but...

If indeed there was nothing else to be done, despite the best efforts of crew/doctor assisting, then further factors come into play.

The relevant bodies assisting (whether that be QR Ops, doctor on board, Medlink) then consult as to where the most appropriate location to proceed should be. Of course the F/O now in command can make this decision, but imagine you have just lost your colleague. Of course you are going to ask for help to make this decision in such a stressful time and choose the best place for all now that (sadly) saving your colleague is not possible and no longer the priority.

Think that by going to KUL, with a replacement crew available, and possibly better facilities/ease of access to counselling/crisis teams (which QR would know) and also minimising delay to passengers (also stressed) and allowing the traumatised crew to go immediately to a hotel rather than waiting with delayed passengers, may indeed have been the best option.

All we know as outsiders for a fact is that people have lost a colleague, son, husband... so very sad at a young age and all we can hope for is that QR do the right thing by his family :(

[a330flyer]

BB: definitely agree with you; considerations change after the "final breath" has been taken by a fellow human being.

But "The Peninsula" newspaper states:
"He reportedly suffered a heart attack roughly an hour after the flight had left Manila, and had had a light breakfast a little after take-off."

roughly 1hr into the flight from Manila to Doha you're roughly 250 NM east of Da Nang (Vietnam), thus 500NM west of the departure aerodrome Manila.

Distances:
Da Nang - Ho-Chi-Minh-City : 326NM
Da Nang - Hanoi : 328NM
Da Nang - Bangkok : 457NM
Da Nang - Hong Kong : 509NM

Da Nang - Kuala Lumpur : 866NM

May I assume that the F/O was heading for SGN in order to get medical care for his colleague and that he only continued to KUL because it was too late and operational considerations were again of higher priority?

I really hope that the QR culture of fear didn't stop the F/O from taking decisions without consulting the company! Never forget: after a heart attack, every minute counts!

[777LR Driver]

This flight was 3 crew, 2 FO's and a Capt.

[Fubaliera]

Unfortunatley its everyman for himself in QR. The F/O staff number in the 18000,s was more worried about blowing his upgrade than saving the life of the Capt. Regardless he should have gone to the nearest suitable airport for the CapT, not the company. There is no doubt in my mind he was just think about himself, calling OCC when the Capt is incapacitated by means of a heart attack, is called cover your a$$ , PILOT INCAP is LAND ASAP, not call OCC.

[Beekberd]

Do you know him personally to be able to deliver such a scathing remark? or did u just ASS-u-ME what had happened? It is very unfair to throw all these accusations at the FO which i see is really out of context. Having said that I do wonder what is the reason to only wait to divert to Kul after what happened an hour into the flight?

R.I.P to the departed Captain...

[shneidertrophy]

Cant help but think WTF!

It is a sad enough story on its own while it has happened, all of you salivating over it just makes things even more painful.

Both F/O's on board did EXACTLY what they were supposed to be doing. Call a doctor and let him handle the medical aspect, call OCC to help assist in the decision and while doing all that, keep the flight safe.

They used all the resources they had, they kept their cool and took the best decision for all concerned.

After all: the poor Captain was declared dead on board so nobody could have helped the poor soul. Still there were two fully qualified pilots on board, one IRP, so they chose to divert to KL in all safety (Wx OK, multiple long RWYs, good support, STBY crew,...) and by doing so they caused the least amount of trouble for the 260 pax on board.

All was well thought over, handled calm and professional.

Pilot incapacitation is LAND ASAP in case only one qualified pilot is remaining, NOT in this case. And as he passed away unfortunately before the decision was taken, an instant diversion would not have been a good solution.

Both FO's have proven to be worth their weight in gold and showed some problem handling and decision making skills many of you could learn from!:ugh:

[CI999]

Can’t agree more a330flyer, Fubaliera, I read the same, actually very seconds count in such a case, some here probably management trying to defend wrong stupid decision, :ugh: diversion is must & immediate an even of unconscious, uncontrollable bleeding, hart attack, electric shock ……..etc.
if you think otherwise your decision-making quality is very poor and Reassessment is mandatory. :ugh:

KUL was too far by all means, rescue & the wellbeing of the CP was dispatch second priority, crew avail was # 1.

What the hell are you talking about shneidertrophy, :eek: its Human Life NOT number of engine remaining. I hope you are not the TCP or GMFO.


I suggest all Capt must include in their emergency briefing to instruct FO to LAND ASAP in an event of (CP) incapacitation. :ok:

[a330flyer]

@ Schneidertrophy:
Thanks for all the info and the insight!
Knowing all this, things start to make sense.

I hope you understand that, being a pilot having flown said route x-times, the news report didn't exactly make sense to me...

Reading the report without knowing that our colleague had sadly been declared dead by a doctor right after his heart attack, I couldn't help thinking: "WTF was going on there..., why KUL".

Only question remaining: Why did QR refuse to comment?

[Boomerang_Butt]

It was stated by an earlier poster that a doctor on board declared death, it seems a lot of you missed this point.

Until you know WHAT was said and done on board then please stop the finger pointing. Some of these posts border on libel and Pprune take it seriously so you better watch out.

Anyone with some common sense can see that this was not such a clear-cut situation as some of you seem to think it is. Until you have someone dying on your galley floor, you don't know what it's like so quit making assumptions about what happened.

Fubaliera, your post is disgusting & I have reported this rubbish to the moderator. Consider yourself lucky you don't get sued!

My 2 cents...

[Spirit1]

CI999 U comment make me sick.

"I suggest all Capt. must include in their emergency briefing to instruct FO to LAND ASAP in an event of (CP) incapacitation"

U must be one of the stupid pilots that think you are a gift to the world. Just waiting for a situation to show it.:yuk:
Quit sure that the F/O have saved u ash a couple of time.:D
　
Ajay was not like U.
　
Will be missing You Ajay;)

RIP

[Fubaliera]

Boomerang Butt, why dont you go tell your mommy as well. I guess the truth does hurt. I bet you report everybody on the airplane as well

[777boyindubai]

Guys,

Rights and wrongs of the choice of diversion airport aside, can we PLEASE stop the horrible bickering here?

Imagine if Captain Ajay's family were to see this?

He seems to have been a popular and good guy. It would be nice if we could respect his memory.

Thanks

[BYMONEK]

Fubaliera

Your posts demonstrate a disturbing level of both ignorance and immaturity. If you can't take the criticism (which you deserve) for your original post, then stop making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims.

This is an open forum for people to discuss all issues, even the decisions that the crew made in such a sad and highly stressful situation as this. Whilst people can speculate and discuss the merits of various options, to castigate an individual crew member when you are not in possession of all the facts is a sad reflection of a supposed 'professional' pilot.

Not only this, but your attitude is an insult to a lost colleague and his family. For that, you should be thouroughly ashamed.

May you and others here think about that before this thread degenerates into another pathetic mud slinging contest for juveniles whos egos are bigger than their brains.

[Hajj Man]

It is hard to believe Ajay has gone and we would never share a cockpit together again. I’m grateful for the gift of his friendship. I miss him and hold his memories dear.

He was a true aviator in every sense of the word. A humble and mannered gentleman in every respect, he will be missed greatly by those who knew him.

Ajay has "Gone West" and left the rest of us to go on without him. Perhaps at times we will be influenced and guided when things in aviation aren't going exactly right and our flight path needs correction. Stop and think about what you have and try to look for calm skies always.

We are still bound to earth and Ajay is now flying to the west, toward the sunset because the sun has set on his life.

Fly on to the west, Ajay! I wish you fair winds and blue skies for this next leg of your journey.

Hajj Man :ok:

[4HolerPoler]

I see no reason to invoke any moderation at this time; as sad as this event is, this is a forum for discussion and there has certainly been no libel committed.

If you do want to make any personal attacks please do so by Private Message to spare the rest of us from your vitriol.

I have to smile at the contributor who suggested that the pre-flight briefing include directions on what actions to take regarding a diversion in the event of the Captain's incapcitation - what a wonderful way to make long, superfluous briefings even longer and more superfluous.

Rest in Peace Ajay - from all accounts you passed away doing what you enjoyed most; it is most regretful that you did not have the opportunity to bid farewell to your loved ones.

4HP

[wannabejetpilot]

Hajj Man... I really do wish that more people spend time celebrating the life of Capt AK rather than talking about the decision of the crew.

Capt AK was a gem of a guy and a colleague who will be dearly missed. We all hope he rests in peace.

[cpt320]

shiiiiiiit it s an emergency no!!!!!!!!!!!
So How come OCC can Interfere in the PIlot Decision
The A/C became single pilot OPS how can we play with 250 pax because of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
this is how is safety on QR?:oh:
Good Luck

[Patty747400]

If you have a very sick captain the other crew should declare an emergency. "Grave and immediate danger to the aircraft or its crew or passengers"

With a deceased captain there's no emergency.

When you have two other qualified pilots the most senior one assumes command and then they calmly and in cooperation with the authorities and the company decide what action to take and where to land.

I thought that it was only the stupid journalists that believed that an aircraft without a captain would fall out of the sky. Obviously some of the pilots in this forum think the same? Or maybe you are not pilots?

RIP Captain

[Hoggtart]

Deepest condolences to the family and friends and colleagues.......

[leftseatview]

4HP happy to note a fellow "Fan" of long superfluous "brief"ings.....
Along with slow taxing they seem to be becoming an Industry epidemic:ugh:
Perhaps also worth noting increasing tribe of those(like Patty747400) wanting "company to decide what action to take and where to land"

[A300Man]

4HP,

Fully respect your position and decision here on this thread and will fully abide by your moderation. But, there is one particular post on this thread (placed by a member who's username begins with the letter between E and G in the alphabet) that utterly sickens me and many others who have read it.

The aviator who had to make those decisions and land the aircraft (wherever) following the demise of his colleage will undoubtedly be "thrilled" to have read the comments made in said post. i.e. that his actions were driven by self-interest rather than consideration for his dying colleague?

Hmmm. Not healthy debate, IMO, but downright slanderous.

Everyone is entitled to his opinion, I guess, especially when said opinion (like mine now) is spouted from an anonymous armchair somewhere................

RIP, Ajay.

A300Man

[Patty747400]

leftseatview

You illiterate or just provocative?

Where did I write that I'd let the company DECIDE where to land?

Whenever I'm faced with a (non emergency) situation where I need to land at another airport I would of course ask where my company wants the aircraft and (listen carefully now) if it doesn't affect the safety of my flight I'd be happy to do what they want.

Would you not?

[DinoCraft9]

Sorry I might have missed a bit of info here but according to my knowledge loosing a member of the on-duty flightcrew is an emergency regarless of how many other pilots may be on board... unless you call yourself M. O'Leary...
If not considered an emergency why diverting then? they could have continued to destination with the spare Cpt...

Let's just pay respect to the fallen one and hope this doesn't happen again

[Patty747400]

Dino

If you are a pilot you know there could be a lot of reasons to divert without you being in an emergency.

I was once on a 12 hour flight. Two captains, two first officers. After about two hours flight one of the F/O:s became ill, vomiting and with stomach pains. Food poisoned, no doubt.

We told him to go back to the bunk and relax for the rest of the flight. He was ok but not fit enough to perform in the cockpit so from a crew perspective he was "lost".

Had you been the captain you would have declared an emergency and landed asap?

[Mephistopheles]

I couldn't help it but I had to post something.
Firstly, I my condolences to the family.
Secondly, I am sorry to ruffle the feathers of all the wannabe future commanders here but as far as I know whenever an essential crew member is incapacitated it's a mayday situation & despite what many seem to think here a flight operating without a captain is most definately a serious problem. If it were not such a problem then surely the company would have instructed the FOs to continue as far as their duty times allowed.
Having said that we cannot second guess the decision of the guys onboard since that probably made the best decison that they could come up with.

[tuan74]

It is easier to criticized others decision making when you're sitting down in front of your computer thinking what to type next.. without actually being in the real situation..

How many times do you think that your decision in the SIMULATOR is the best ever..????

Stop undermining your fellow pilots..

Rest in peace Ajay..

[40&80]

I feel "if" the decision to divert to KUL was advised by Qatar operations
it was almost certainly influenced by the efficiency of KUL compared to Qatar to deal with this particular situation.
Imagine the torrent of adverse publicity that would have been caused if this flight had arrival in Qatar with a deceased Captain on board.
The pilots widow and child and the operations management were thankfully spared a potential spectacular display of inefficiency and red tape confusion at a very sensitive time.
Passing the NIMBY situation over to a proper organised major international airport to deal with it saved a lot of potential embarrassment.

[shoguns]

4 pages and 74 posts full of praises for a colleague who was apparently popular and well liked. Tons of condolences and words of support for the young family. But that is all it remained - words!

When it came time to put those words to action, the pilot community at QR has fallen well short. 1500 Pilots and all we have to show for that is a collection of QR 11,000 as a tribute to a fallen colleague and as support for his family!

Words are cheap indeed. I hang my head in shame at the sheer indifference and callousness of my fellow pilots at QR. Perhaps we are good enough only to moan and groan but are incapable of rising to the occasion when the situation demands it!

It is still not too late. A contribution of QR500-QR 1000 is not asking too much for such a noble cause? Let our actions speak for a change!!

[Landflap]

Patty, if you are a Skipper, I would not like to be a fare paying passenger sitting behind you. If you are a Co-joe, you are a long way from Command.
Ofcourse it is an Emergency and of course it warrants a "mayday". Public Transport aircraft certified for operation by TWO pilots means that if you lose one, you are in a non normal. This non normal will be addressed by your company sop's. I suggest, drills complete, land at the nearest suitable alternate. Point is, Patty, you might lose the other operating pilot too ! Much like twin engine aeroplane, lose one, you have , technically lost 50% of your power & that, is a MAYDAY. Of course, from an airmanshippoint of view, you might lose the remaining engine !
"suitable" throws the debate wide open. I regularly float past Myanamar in my two engined widebody, Losing one donk, although Myanamar is the closest, it is really not that suitable.

I think the QR FO did a great job. A full Mayday should have been declared.

Safe flying guys and heartfelt thoughts to the skipper downed in his prime. R.I.P.

[loc22550]

Shoguns...
If you want to blame something or someone: Blame Qatar Airways FIRST!
Where is the contribution of the company$$$$$$$$$....??:yuk:
I have only one word unfortunatly..:SHAME ON...QATAR AIRWAYS!! :yuk:


Thats it.

[Tintin]

Loc if my memory is right in the past Qatar Airways have always been good for the familly and for sick employees.

[loc22550]

Tintin,
We are not talking about about a sick employee here...
If my memory is good its the 4th time since i'm with QR i receive such a letter asking to contribuate "GENEROUSLY":eek: everytime we loose a colleague..
I used to give ..twice i think,than i gave up..!
Don't you think that A company like Qatar Airways sitting on Billion of $$$(AND WASTING $$$ every year as well...) can't afford to do something for the family of one of his former employee...??
Let me tell you a TRUE (but sad) fact Tintin;a lot of crew are just disgusted/shocked and sick when they see such a letter(including me now..), this might unfortunatly explain the thiny donation IMHO.
Loc.

[Tintin]

I ear you, LOC but it is not the familly's fault IF Qatar Airways, again IF they do jack **** for them. I think it is our duty as colleague, friend ou simply fellow humain to help as much as we can specially IF Qatar Airways do not take there corporate responsability.

One day it might be you or me think about it.

Enjoy

[Patty747400]

Landflap


"Public Transport aircraft certified for operation by TWO pilots means that if you lose one, you are in a non normal."

First of all, if you are a pilot you should know that emergency and "non-normal" is not the same.

If you refer to my last post you should read it again. There were four qualified pilots on board. If you refer to the QR flight they had three pilots on board.

Where's the "grave and immediate danger" in flying with two pilots at the controls?

[Landflap]

none at all. Apologies. With THREE qualified pilots on Board, they should have continued to Doha. What a bunch of Nerds !!

[A300Man]

I think the thread is drifting a bit. No need for the insults.

[loc22550]

Anybody knowns what is the "comprehensive life insurance":confused: we suppose to benefit from the company according pilot's benefits mentioned on their website and what does it suppose to cover??

[bussboy]

Well said flaps!!!:D

[shoguns]

I thought (mistakenly, I realise) that I could stir the conscience of the pilot body at QR and shake at least a few out of their apathy, believeing in the inate goodness in all, or at least, most of us.

When it comes to making a choice, there are generally two options:

Option 1 - Make excuses:

Blame the Company / Airline / Government .......Let them do it............
Why should I have to do it...........
Nobody else seems to be doing it, so its fine if I don't either........
Its not about money, its the thought that matters.......
I did not know him.........
If I ignore it long enough, that tiny little voice of my conscience will eventually go away............

Option 2 - Do the right thing

Alas, the pilots of QR have shown where their choice lies.

I pray this misfortune never befalls your family and they never have to suffer the numbing indifference of your fellow pilots to their loss.

Over and out.