EK prospects

[MEbound]

Hello all.
I have a job offer from EK and while I am looking fwd to being in Dubai and flying for EK, there are moments of uncertainty as well. If any of you would pls share your opinion on the following
1.EK has close to 2400 pilots right now and of those around half are f/os so a pilot joining today is looking at how many years to command? Would they be doing 150-200 command upgrades a year considering the a/c on order?
2. Is it viable for three airlines (EK,EY and QR) so close to each other geographically to have the kind of expansion that they have planned?
Thanks all.
Happy landings.

[ManaAdaSystem]

You're going to fit right in.

[sheikmyarse]

You are going to just regret it

[harry the cod]

Still here Sheiky? I thought you'd left these sandy shores. You just can't bear to tear yourself away can you!!! ;)

Harry

[atiuta]

Do the math, command is going to be a long time coming. Possibility of DEC's is always there as well.

I would say 6-7 yrs minimum but depending on your circumstances, it's not wasted time.

[goriding]

I am not sure where the article is now, but I remember reading that the current EK fleet plan includes replacement of around 68 of the older 330/340/777 fleet. Factor that into the planned aircraft delivery schedule and the total fleet growth is certainly less than the delivery numbers.

Below is a quote from Wikipedia:

"Emirates will begin phasing out 68 older widebodies – A330-200s, A340-300/500s and 777 “Classics from February 2011.[91] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_%28airline%29#cite_note-flightglobal.com-90) Emirates plans to have over 320 aircraft by 2018, and some reports suggest that the airline will have more than 400 aircraft in its fleet by 2020.[93] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_%28airline%29#cite_note-92)"

According to Wikipedia the existing fleet today is 144, with 196 orders. Thats a total of 272 aircraft, subtract out the 68 retirements and you have 272 aircraft.

In order to upgrade you need to double the existing fleet (if you were hired today) so 144 times 2 is 288 aircraft. The current plan of a 272 aircraft fleet comes up 16 aircraft short of that goal. All the above numbers come from Wikipedia, and as you can see there is a conflict between the quote above and the fleet numbers table on the same page in Wikipedia.

Remember, its aviation, and all the plans will change tomorrow.

[Wizofoz]

goriding,

Not so much 16 airframes as 16*16= 356 command slots.

Figure 3% attrition on an average crew complement of 3000 and that number gets swallowed up in four years.

Three years ago people were saying "6 to 7 years to command". Guys currently upgrading are at the 4yr 3 mth mark, and it's falling.

A year from now, guys with 3 years up will be upgrading. Guys joining now are probably looking at 4-5, guys joining a year from now 5-6, assuming no big orders.

The company wants to be a 350 aeroplane airline- one thing that THAT will require is the completion of and our moving to JXB. Short of that, about 270 is the limit, which, as you say, is where the current order book takes us.

[wrenchbender]

Can anyone define a "777 Classic"?

[MrMachfivepointfive]

-200
-200ER
-300

Non-classic:

-200LR
-200LRF
-300ER

[wrenchbender]

Thanks. But what's the real difference? ER's and LR's have different range, I suppose. But the aircraft is basically the same. Isn't it? I mean, it's not like the differences between a 747-400 and a 747 Classic, which was a -100 or -200. (Wonder which category the -300 would fall in?)

[oz in dxb]

The "classic" term relates to the engines installed on these aircraft.
Aircraft with the RR Trent are the "classic" aircraft. All new 777s arriving have the GE 111/115 engines.

GEs have higher weights and longer range than the classics.

[Iver]

If you can do better in India, stay there. If you want to fly 777s or A380s worldwide and upgrade in roughly 7-10 years, go to EK. Keep in mind it could take 20+ years to upgrade in a UK or US legacy airline.

Don't expect EK to be perfect by any stretch (go with your eyes wide open and your expectations in check) - but compare it to your current situation and make the appropriate decision.

[Flying Spag Monster]

MEbound, you have seen estimates on this post of command time from between 4 and 10 years. That should at least tell you that no one really knows, not even management. We cannot and should not tell you to come or not, as that is your decision, we should only let you know the few facts we can. Time to command is not one of them. One true fact is that there is constant change and even a fact we tell you today may be false tomorrow. My recommendation to you or any one else, is to plan on being here as an FO. If that can work out for you then come on over. The command when it comes will be a welcome bonus. If anyone bases the decision on the fact that one day the command will come and make every thing OK they may be very disappointed. A bit like kissing a frog and hoping it will turn into something better, you just need to like frogs....

[MEbound]

Thank you all for your opinions and advice. Lots of thinking to be done on my part ... happy landings...and quick upgrades(to those waiting for them)...thanks again. Cheers!

[Patty747400]

MEbound

Although I understand that you're thinking about the future command I will recommend you and all other F/O:s to also look at what kind of life you have until you get your command.

If you just focus on the target you will not enjoy the years you spend reaching it.

Which airline offers you the best life as an F/O? If the difference in Captain and F/O pay is small and the working conditions at the flight deck is good then you shouldn't be too worried about a couple of years extra as F/O.

I enjoy being Captain but I also had a lot of fun during my almost 15 years as a F/O.
Your flying career will hopefully be long, enjoy all parts of it!

[SubsonicMortal]

Does anyone know if there is an internal requirement for transfer to the 380? i.e total time on Airbus?

If a pilot joins EK with 3000 hrs on the Airbus. What is the expected time before transfer onto the big bus? Also, from 330 to 340, what is the average time before commencing MFF?

Factual information preferred over speculation. Thanks.

[SOPS]

Subsonic...you may well join EK with 3000 hours on the airbus and be put on the 777 fleet, hours on type does not always relate to which fleet you are allocated.

Im sorry, but the rest of your questions will have to wait for a bus driver to answer.

[maugar]

hello guys,does anyone know about the last exams that EK is applying, questions, where to study, books, any information about this will be very helpfull, because I am going to have an interview in EK

[wingflex]

hi guys,

just out of curiosity, what is the average age of EK FOs when they join. Do they have a lot of young (20-25 year old), or older FOs ?

WF

[wingflex]

Thanks !
i am an FO with 3000+ TT on the 777s. Been sitting on the right seat out here for 4.5 years and command seems another 6-10 years away. I have read about varying time to command on other threads. Realistically as officially quoted by EK HR, can i look forward to a command out there in 5-6 years from the date of join ?
regards

WF

[allaru]

Don't know the average age but I'm guessing about 35. As a general rule EK doesn't employ young jerks, most FOs are experienced in international wide body ops, or have had narrow body commands.

Don't mix the UAE local program with the expat one, they don't compare and are totally different concepts.

If you think your going to come here and cuff it you'll be caught out big time. There is no spoon feeding and you will be expected to know your sh&%t and perform or pack your bongos and F&%k of back to where u came from.

The flying is hard, real hard, so if you think flying 8 sectors a day for a low cost carrier blah blah blah is hard work you ain't seen nothin....

If your not capable of flying across the globe feeling like s*&t and landing the aircraft in crap weather having been awake for 24 hours then this may not be your bag.

To summarize this is no holiday in the sun, its hard work, and you'll have to have your act together this applies to DECs as well.

Wooza fuzz where did ya get that 16 figure from I thought EK was running at about 8.4 crew per A/C at present...

[Wizofoz]

Wooza fuzz

Love it!!

Yes, now you mention it, it shoud have been 8*16, not 16*16 (I was thinking pilots per A/C, but only one of them gets the LHS.)