Do we need smoke hoods in Helicopters ?

[starshiptrooper]

Hi Rotorheads,

Appreciate any comments and experience of personnel using smoke hoods/masks in helicopters. After doing a recent fire and safety course (though mostly with fixed wing boys) the fire team seemed surprised that helicopters generally dont have any smoke hoods/masks in the cockpit. With helicopters increasingly more and more flying higher and IFR is there not a pressing need for these to be standard in a cockpit/cabin as the time to land is greatly increased ?
Do you offshore guys have them in your kit ? I quote

A recent study by the European Transport Safety Council (ETSC) concluded that smoke hoods should be provided in all commercial aircraft. Referring to the debate over the benefit of respiratory protection versus evacuation time, the report said, "… it seems reasonable to say that smoke hoods might lead to some delay in starting the evacuation. However, this does not have necessarily any detrimental effect. As the House of Commons Transport Committee in its report on aircraft cabin safety concluded: ’It is no use passengers being able theoretically to evacuate an aircraft in 60 seconds if, in toxic smoke and without a smoke hood, they collapse unconscious in half that time. The possibility that it may take 10 seconds longer to evacuate with a smoke hood on is of little consequence if indeed passengers can actually evacuate in 70 seconds from a cabin full of toxic smoke and live to tell the tale
These hoods are now on sale for as little as $70 with CO, CO2 protection plus much more. Seems a small price to pay for a definite life saver, not only to passengers, but giving the crew time/space and air to think and not rush decisions?

Appreciate comments/feedback

Cheers

SST

[ShyTorque]

Smoke hoods are certainly more desirable in a pressurised hull because you can't open the windows and doors in flight.

[pohm1]

Not required off-shore in Australia.

We have a strict no smoking policy.:ok:

[SNS3Guppy]

What fixed-wing operations are you aware of that issue pilots smoke hoods?

Oxygen masks, yes...and smoke goggles. Smoke hoods are another matter...and being able to see out as the cockpit fills with smoke is another matter, too. Smoke hoods don't allow you to do that.

[Aser]

sns3guppy, check this

EVAS - Emergency Vision Assurance System (http://www.evasworldwide.com/index.php)

regards
Aser

[Spunk]

Had smoke in the cockpit once. Slowed down, opened the door, landed and got rid of that smoky computer.

[starshiptrooper]

Well most of the GAA crews were issued with smoke hoods for the aircraft. Yes they did also have a oxygen supply (independant of the aircraft). Helicopter smoke hoods obviously dont need the use of oxygen (as lower alts) which enables them to be even smaller and they still filter out all the nasty stuff that can invade your lungs
Its easy to land VFR and low.... IFR and high in Controlled airspace....not so easy...you want to fly in a cockpit with a mixture of Halon gas and vapourised sulpher for 10-15 mins ?...windows can be a great help to those in the cockpit..but what about pax in a sealed cabin the back e.g S76, AW139, EC155 etc smoke hoods would be a live saver...surely ?

[S76Heavy]

IFR and high would presumably be somewhere in the region of 3000-5000 ft agl/asl.
Controlled airspace does not prevent an emergency decent as it doesn't for FW either. You declare an emergency and go, preferably turning off route a bit to avoid those potentially below you, while ATC sorts the rest out.

I believe smoke hoods in a cramped cabin are more of a danger than the actual risk of dangerous smoke levels. Sounds to me like a solution to a not much existing problem as far as helicopters go.

And yes, I have experienced the smoke in the cockpit and cabin..from an electrical problem due to water ingress. Smoke hoods would not have helped.

[SNS3Guppy]

sns3guppy, check this

EVAS - Emergency Vision Assurance System

I'm very well aware of EVAS. It's not at all the same as a smoke hood.

A smoke hood is something into which one places one's head. In order to use EVAS, one already needs to have smoke goggles on, and needs to be on oxygen. EVAS exists to allow one to see out of the aircraft...but first you need to protect your airway.

EVAS is designed around a pilot on oxygen with a face shield/smoke goggles, pressing his or her face against the inflated tent to see instruments our the outside world.

[Gomer Pylot]

Starshiptrooper, I'm sure they showed you some very scary stuff, but how many times have people died because of smoke in the helicopter? I'm aware of none. Even IFR, we're not that high - 6,000ft at most. There are no mountains offshore, so it's not necessary to go to oxygen altitudes. If you're flying a pressurized jet at flight levels, it might be a good idea, but helicopters near sea level, and certainly near ground level? It's a solution in search of a problem, and the problem just doesn't exist often enough to justify the extra junk lying around in the cockpit and cabin, which is already cramped enough to be a problem.