FAA audit of GCAA

[Jumeirah James]

Hi Gents,

I believe the FAA are auditing the GCAA in November. Is this just a standard audit and will it affect EK's expansion plans into the US? I'd appreciate your thoughts Gents


cheers

[White Knight]

I doubt it will affect it at all......

[typhoonpilot]

The U.S. is not likely to risk angering a country that is a very big trading partner. The UAE spends billions of dollars per year on U.S. goods and services.



Typhoonpilot

[pool]

On the other hand the US govt is under lobbying pressure from their airlines due to the increasing presence and threat of ME airlines. EK is increasing presence in top markets like IAH/LAX/SFO/JFK. At the same time the US airlines are under scrutinity regarding duty and flight time limitations as a result of recent accidents related to fatigue. It is notable to hear rumors concerning abolishment of EK's disatrous factoring for total time calcs. The GCAA didn't give a rodents backside up to now, but with the increasing ASRs and the (not yet, but undercoverly looming) pressure from the FAA to play to the same rules as their airlines (over their airspace), I guess there will be a effect.

Keep those ASRs rolling, dear collegues. It's the one and only thing that hurts them. Fatigue, fatigue, fatigue -> every little drop will count.

[Wizofoz]

pressure from the FAA to play to the same rules as their airlines (over their airspace), I guess there will be a effect.


You mean these rules:-

No certificate holder conducting domestic operations may schedule any flight crewmember and no flight crewmember may accept an assignment for flight time in scheduled air transportation or in other commercial flying if that crewmember’s total flight time in all commercial flying will exceed –

1,000 hours in any calendar year;

100 hours in any calendar month;

30 hours in any 7 consecutive days;

8 hours between required rest periods.



Then, when you get into things like Augmented crews, you find you can do 350hrs in 90 days (though the 1000hr limit applys).

Seems I have to regularly say this, but the FAA regs are no better, and I would argue generally worse, than the GCAA regs, even WITH factoring.

If factoring is going,(and it should, it is an aggregious p!22 take) then our regs are definatley more restrictive with a 900hr limit, and at worst a wash if they change it to 1000.

We are working far too hard, but I wouldn't look to the FAA as a white knight here (though if factoring is going and it's anything to do with them, more power too them.)

Now, could someone drop the FAA guys a line and get them to ask what GCAA thinks of the EK definition of "Sign on" and "Duty"??

[pool]

Wiz, I agree, the FAA is not the salvation army. But the current limits are under pressure NOT from the FAA, but from the NTSB and the senat, as both have to respond to findings published about recent accidents. The FAA is on the receiving end here, therfore more prone to shove the same up any other rear end, to save face.

The limits you pasted are for domestic operations, by the way, so not comparable.

I truly consent with the sign on scam. It's a half an hour before and the same after the flight that we are cheated out. Sum this up with the number of check-ins and we get a lot of hours more. Additionally EK never counts hours in the sim and a lot of airlines credit classroom hours as well.
I am pretty sure that we work more hours, all in all, than our counterparts in the USA, EU or AU.

[Wizofoz]

I am pretty sure that we work more hours, all in all, than our counterparts in the USA, EU or AU.

Right now, yes we do. But that's more to do with industrial relations than regulation.

The company acknowledges, however, that there is a severe shortage and is recruiting like crazy.

It should never have happened but, assuming we end do at the 85ish mark being quoted (which, IMHO, is the maximum sustainable from a rostering point of view, let alone fatigue) then I have been in situations both in Europe and Australia where I worked longer and more fatiguing hours.

Don't get me wrong, what is happening now is a disgrace and a ball-ache of monumental proportions, but things tend to be cyclical and we should be heading towards something better next year.

BTW, chocks-on is end of FLIGHT duty period (which determines how long a duty can be) under every set of regs I've operated. TOTAL duty period (which determines when rest begins and how much that should be) should include a realistic period post flight. 30 mins? Arguable, but not uncommon.

We are, however, REQUIRED to COMMENCE DUTY well before the 60mins allowed for, and that is where the real liberty is taken.

[MosEisley]

Wiz, the FAA regs are there to establish limits which we rarely approached. The negotiated contracts improved QOL even more. The big difference is the lack of restrictions on front side and back side flying at EK. The FAA and the contracts had very restrictive limitations on front/back flipping and circadian adjustments and disruptions. Those consideration are non existent at EK. Min rest? No problem, you're "legal." It doesn't matter if you just got back from an all night HYD, you've got a day ATH tomorrow, deal with it. 8 days off? That's a joke with the type of mixed flying at EK. Min days off at some US airlines is 12 with all domestic and no red eye flying. Throw in long haul and back side flying and the days off increase significantly.

Now here comes the argument that the contracts are what killed the US industry. BS. It was the influx of low cost carriers willing to take a loss to gain market share and the response from the legacy carriers to combat it. The result was a reduction of service which reduced the market to a pricing point based battlefield and destroyed any consumer loyalty. Profit margins were cut to razor thin levels and the airlines squeezed the labor groups, cut pensions, reduced pay, eliminated jobs, and robbed all those responsible for what little profit remained. Thank god for the contracts which protected what little semblance of life style still remained.

At EK, profits are not an issue. At least that's what they say. Based on their words, EK makes more money than all the US carriers combined. That's easy to do when you don't give a crap about silly regulations that prioritize safety over profit. The GCAA regs, and all regs for that matter, are designed to demonstrate maximum and minimum values for operation. That doesn't mean that operating to those limits is safe, advisable, or sustainable. The regulations are backstops to use in extreme circumstances, not guidelines for scheduling or staffing an operation. The people in place at EK either don't understand that or just don't care.

The staffing problem could be easily fixed in the same way they solve any problem in this part of the world. Throw money at it. A significant increase in pay would attract all the candidates they need. The resulting numbers could then be used to improve life style by reducing individual flying hours and increasing days off. This would, in turn, attract even more people and make EK the premier job in the industry. Sure, it would cut a little into the 1 billion plus profits, but it would fix the problem.

The rhetorical question then: will EK management see beyond their short term profits (which would still be staggeringly high) and look at long term, sustainable and stable growth strategies?

The only thing stopping EK from taking over the planet is staffing and there is no one willing to turn the ship from the iceberg looming in front.

P.S. sorry for the drift, but I was just reading the staffing thread as well and the two seem related.

[M-rat]

Wiz of Oz - good points.

I think folks are so desperate for some good news from this grinding, tiring, lousy rostering system that they are beginning to grasp at straws.

There is no requirement whatsoever for the UAE to conform with FAA rules and regulations. The FAA only governs operations for USA carriers, domestic and inernational.

The purpose of the audit in 2010 is to fulfill a requirement for the FAA to conduct an audit of all foreign carriers regulatory authorities, for countries with airlines operating to/from the United States. This type of audit is routine and must take place not less than once every 10 years. I would venture a guess that it is formal, but not exhaustive, and as has been previously posted there are many political facets to these kinds of things.

It is the GCAA which has sole responsibility for the regulations governing the carriers within the UAE. Pure and simple.

The FAA will not become our 'saviours'.

It sucks a bit doesn't it?:hmm:

[IXNAT]

M=rat, you are right in that the FAA has zero "control" over EK or the GCAA. BUT as has been said numerous times here, they do have a control over the access the GCAA carriers have into the US. Do EK and EY want more access into cities beyond what they are already flying? Why would EK announce 2 additional ULRs PRIOR to the audit, when EK is desperate for more pilots? The GCAA is confident that there will be no problems with the audit. We'll see.

[Jumeirah James]

Thanks for all the replies ladies. Good reading.

Re the 'sign on' scam; BM, our Manager Reg Affairs, states that "it's an Internationally accepted norm..." to operate this way. I haven't seen any paperwork to confirm this and have no idea where this norm came from. Another 'soft rule' methinks. :ugh:

Cheers

[fliion]

Gents,

Any truth to the suggestion that the double daily LAX/IAH is a mitigation move in case the audit goes downgrade?

f.