Jay Kay Video - R44 v 2.7RS

[FLY 7]

Nice film

k_bQ0h85gY8
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_bQ0h85gY8)

[JTobias]

Thats bloody diabolical. I'm absolutely disgusted at this. Its completely irresponsible especially considering that he is a well known celebrity and his actions are likely to be seen by millions of people around the world. I simply can't believe what a bad example this sets to the aviation community.

For G-D's sake can't somebody in authority do something about this. I mean come-on for one thing, a man in his position should be able to afford something more than an R44 and secondly, fancy painting it green and silver !

The flying's great though, so he has redeemed himself somewhat !!!

Joel :E

[EN48]

I dont get it - Mickey Mouse helicopter and one of the greatest cars of all time. What the point? :confused:

[Bravo73]

I dont get it - Mickey Mouse helicopter and one of the greatest cars of all time. What the point? :confused:

It's pretty straight forward. It's his helicopter and his car. Keeps video costs down, eh? ;)


(Oh, the helicopter is painted to match one of his Lambos. A Miura, IIRC).

[Soave_Pilot]

R44, never forget where you came from! To most of us, civilians.:D

[toptobottom]

...a man in his position should be able to afford something more than an R44...

...Mickey Mouse helicopter...


Here we go again; I'm disappointed with this perpetual Robbie bashing :(

I agree, not the greatest example of flying but how many of his teenage audience will really affected by this? And how many 000's of other 'unaceptable' heli vids are there on YouTube?!

I know G-JKAY and its owner quite well; it's not about what you can afford, but what provides you with what you need. Most smart folk can 'afford' to buy something that delivers more than they actually need, but choose value instead.

[helisdw]

I can't quite work out the logic/finances of this - the reg on the R44 in the video would suggest it is his machine but the video appears to have been shot overseas (?USA). Thus, would the cost of shipping his own helicopter abroad not negate any saving? Why not just rent a machine locally?

Of course, I may be mistaken and the arid landscape is in fact to be found within the UK...!

Simon

[JTobias]

TTB

My apologies, I'm not bashing the Robbie, but exploring the "if money were no object, what chopper would I have" and given that JK has a few quid (and is a petrolhead also) I thought he might have had something like an EC120 or even a twin.

However, if a Robbo is his chosen bit of kit then that's fine by me.

(And who mentioned the flying? Not meeeeee!)

Joel :O:O

[nobloodywind]

been shot overseas (?USA).


Spain, comments under the video.

[helisdw]

nobloodywind - well spotted, thank you.

Guess I should learn to read a bit more closely!

Makes more sense now why G-Reg aircraft would be used.

Simon

[toptobottom]

Joel - I know you're not mate. You and I could easily 'afford' a more expensive machine, but personally, I'd rather keep spending the extra hard earned cash on my other toys :ok:

What pi$$es me off are the anti-Robbie snobs; almost always non-owners who couldn't 'afford' to buy a chopper, not even a Robbie!!

And you're right - the flying's great!!!! :) Shame he had to do the last bit to 'prove' it was him though. Tsssk - egos, eh?

[HeliTed]

I'd love an R44, and I'd love a 911 2.7 Carrera RS. To be able to use them like this in Almeria is pretty cool too.

What I wouldn't want is an attitiude that seems to go with those that are more fortunate than others in the heli world. I would never guessed it is as bad as it is.

A car forum has a thread running on this at the moment, and nothing but positive comments (apart from those who don't like seeing the 911 on a dirt road).

Shame.

[Whirlygig]

What pi$$es me off are the anti-Robbie snobs; almost always non-owners who couldn't 'afford' to buy a chopper, not even a Robbie!!Well I can't afford to buy a Robbie but if I could, I wouldn't; I'd save up my pocket money for something else. And if I had JK's money, I'd buy a Jet Ranger (actually, I'd forego the cars and have a 109 but that's not the issue).

It's not being snobbish; it's being realistic. They are not the be-all-and-end-all of private flying. Snobbery has nothing to do with it; that only appears to exist amongst the owners. :}

Cheers

Whirls

[Soave_Pilot]

Well I can't afford to buy a Robbie but if I could, I wouldn't; I'd save up my pocket money for something else. And if I had JK's money, I'd buy a Jet Ranger


Some ppl would rather buy a new 44 than buying a 15 year old jet ranger for the same price, that only God knows what it has been through.

[ReverseFlight]

I'm absolutely disgusted at this.

Agreed. For a change, I am not Robbie-bashing this time. It's the way it's being flown - the pilot risked LTE a couple of times and, by flying crab, is putting unnecessary stresses on the tailcone attachments (as several police departments throughout the world have found out to their cost).

[Heliringer]

Good video and catchy song.

The R44 is a good machine to operate, it's fast,easy to fly,cheapish,only uses 60lts per hour and they are pretty tough if you keep an eye on the blades.
If I was in the market for a personal transport type I would pick the R44 over anything else on market today.

[toptobottom]

Whirls

We're in danger of getting mod'ed here for off-piste banter, but judging by the enormous volume of 'anti-robbie' posts I've read on PPRuNe over the years, the snobbish remarks are generally from those that fly more exotic machinery - which is generally owned by someone else!

JK could probably afford to buy any helicopter in the world, but he has an R44 - and that's the point; he's not a snob. Even if you (one) could afford to buy better kit, why would you necessarily want to? What you (one) can afford and what you (one) need is rarely aligned in a snob's world cos it's about image. If it's about being realistic, why have a 109? Do you really need a 109?! Or could it be that your (one's) ego is getting in the way of reality?!

I've owned two Robbies and a 206. The 44 is ugly, sounds like a tractor and has as much sophistication as Amy Whitehouse, but it's cheap, reliable, reasonably fast and, flown within limits, is a perfectly safe helicopter.

[Widewoodenwingswork]

Reverseflight, don't get too worked up about flying out of trim. For starters, it has the potential to wreck the t/r blades, not the tailboom attach points. You are right that police departments have experienced this but I think that the 2 or so days spent filming, (mostly in trim), would be nothing in comparison to the hundreds of hours "performing orbits with a nose-left yaw (using additional left pedal input)" (R44 Safety Alert, 7th June 2007). Some of you Poms and Australian SPL(H)'s need to see what the Robinson products are capable of and I can assure you that Jay Kay is only scratching the surface. Good on him for doing so.

[EN48]

Mickey Mouse helicopter and one of the greatest cars of all time.


More appropriate match ups, IMHO, would be an MD 500 with the Porsche, or a VW Beetle with the R44. Similar levels of sophistication/technology/design intent.

BTW, I am qualified in both the R22 and R44 and still consider them to be a POS. Minimalist designs optimized for cheap and to just meet the certification requirements. Nothing wrong with that as long as one understands and accepts the tradeoffs, which are considerable. And, yes, ttb, I do own a helicopter. :ok:

[John R81]

Can't be that wealthy if he is buying it in installments.

Just the doors to go, then he will have a complete ship!

:O

[206 jock]

I'm surprised no-one has raised the spectre of whether this is flying constitutes Aerial work and should only therefore be undertaken by a CPL in an AOC holder's aircraft or some such nonsense......:hmm:

(Stands back and waits for incoming...)

[expatron]

....I dont get it - Mickey Mouse helicopter and one of the greatest cars of all time. What the point? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif


:D:D:D

[FLY 7]

I'm surprised no-one has raised the spectre of whether this is flying constitutes Aerial work and should only therefore be undertaken by a CPL in an AOC holder's aircraft or some such nonsense......http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/yeees.gif


Presumably Jay Kay wasn't doing the bulk of the flying - just a few shots, to be edited in, to give the impression he was?

[mickjoebill]

I'm surprised no-one has raised the spectre of whether this is flying constitutes Aerial work and should only therefore be undertaken by a CPL in an AOC holder's aircraft or some such nonsense......

I was asking the same question. Does he have a CPL?

Applying one school of thought, from a perhaps irrelevant media law angle, is that a CPL + AOC is not needed if the pilots activities are the subject of a documentary or news story and where no payment is made by passenger to pilot.

If the aircraft is being paid for by a record company or third party then it is aerial work.
If the aircraft is being provided FOC but camera operator is being paid by the record company or third party then it is probably aerial work? (unless media law applies and it is a news or documentary?)

If the camera operator is an "employee" of the pilot they are on safe ground.
Definition of "employee" is a seperate issue and open to dodgy deals that have yet to be tested in court.

If they could have used a jet ranger or AS350 then a CPL could have been out of shot in LH seat doing the flying whilst cameraman was onboard shooting the miming pilot.

Mickjoebill

[Aser]

camera ship was a 206 contracted to INAER.

regards
Aser

[John R81]

From what I see in the video, where I can be sure that JK is flying, so long as JK not being paid for himself or the helicopter, how is this a "CPL" problem?

Separate qestion of the 500 ft rule for other parts of the video - CAA approval required.

[toptobottom]

EN48 - I think we're in violent agreement!

TTB :ok:

[JimBall]

Marvellous how YouTube has become the weapon of choice for armchair lawyers. Was it live? No. Has it been post-produced? Yes.

So none of you have any real evidence of anything.

Bloke flies his own helicopter with his mate onboard holding a video camera. No money changes hands. So far, just like any other YouTube helicopter video. Bloke hires another helicopter, camera system and crew to film the exteriors. Straightforward aerial work transaction.

G reg heli in Spanish airspace appears to fly closer than 500ft to a vehicle. Vehicle driver knows he/she is part of the action and there's no endangerment to anyone outside the task.

Well maybe there was an exemption or permission. I'm sure we'll hear about it soon, as one particular FOI seems to spend his spare hours surfing YouTube and launching senseless investigations triggered by footage he has seen.

It's a great vid that will only serve to enhance genuine public interest in helicopters, might sell a few to people who need lessons. And so an industry on its knees (UK training) might actually get a shot in the arm. All of which will deliver fees to the CAA and keep FOIs employed.

[rotornut]

If he makes a habit of flying like this he may have an unexpected meeting with Mr. Wire!:eek:

[JTobias]

G reg heli in Spanish airspace appears to fly closer than 500ft to a vehicle.

Can't be bothered switching my brain on to think this through, but if it's a G reg aircraft operating outside of the UK do the CAA have any jurisdiction?

Joel

[61 Lafite]

Well... getting back to the video....

...as a (happy) 44 owner, I love this video, as I think I just became cool to my kids if there's even a hint of the fact that I would be able to do that.... :)

It's also the first video that I've seen which manages to make the sperm-like R44 look good!

Lafite

[FLY 7]

Bit off thread (but another flying/music video), but just imagine how cool your kids would think you are if you could do this :cool:

DYSglLVF0Co
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYSglLVF0Co)

[HelipadR22]

If they could have used a jet ranger or AS350 then a CPL could have been out of shot in LH seat doing the flying whilst cameraman was onboard shooting the miming pilot.

Miming! No way! :eek:

Awesome video, the music was pretty cool too. They should have used a 928 though, that's a real man's Porsche :)

[EN48]

They should have used a 928 though, that's a real man's Porsche


The 928 is a short footnote in Porsche history. A failure by business and performance criteria. Now, the 997 Turbo ..., thats a real man's car! Blows the doors off almost everything else exotic at a fraction of the cost. :E

[FullTravelFree]

I like his music and his flying!

"..from another galaxy, transmitting on my frequency..."

(always want to use that line when hearing a sweet female controller :O)

[VeeAny]

Joel

I know nothing of the flight or the people concerned and I am commenting only on your question about jurisdiction.

The rules of the air state

Application of Rules to aircraft
2 These Rules, insofar as they apply to aircraft, shall apply:
(a) to all aircraft within the United Kingdom;
(b) for the purposes of rule 5, to all aircraft in the neighbourhood of an offshore
installation; and
(c) to all aircraft registered in the United Kingdom, wherever they may be.

So I would guess they do in the case of the 500ft rule.

[Peter-RB]

I think on the whole that I would be really happy to own Any helicopter, including the R44, at least then I could miss out the M6/M5 round Birmingham UK that is,...:ok:

Peter R-B
Vfrpilotpb

[JTobias]

VeeAny

So on that basis, an aircraft that is registered in the U.K., is still bound by Rule 5 even if it is being flown outside of the UK even if rule 5 (or it's equivalent) is not applicable in the country it's being flown in.

Interesting!!

The devil is in the detail - as usual.

Cheers,

Joel :ok:

[toptobottom]

Can that really be true? Surely there must be instances where ANO rules conflict with the local flying rules? Does "...wherever they may be." really mean anywhere in the world?!

So in Vegas last year, I happily and legally flew down the strip at night in an N-reg, but I couldn't in a G-reg?! That's bizarre!

[Rosh]

Trump Jay Kay with the 332L2 (even though it didn't have my name on it!), but can't quite match his '73 2.7RS... a lowly '72 2.4E will have to do.

Impressed he's able to watch on as it's being 'driven like it's been stolen!'

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/rjaypalan/WorkPlay-1.jpg

[Heliarctic]

@FLY 7
Yeah, your right nice video...
A bit of music, a cool car, and a helicopter.
Lean back and enjoy it people...!
Why in the he** does it have to be beaten to death with:
"wasn´t he flying too low?"
" I wonder if that is legal?"
"rules say, regs. say"
bla bla bla....:mad:

[Runway101]

Can that really be true? Surely there must be instances where ANO rules conflict with the local flying rules? Does "...wherever they may be." really mean anywhere in the world?!

So in Vegas last year, I happily and legally flew down the strip at night in an N-reg, but I couldn't in a G-reg?! That's bizarre!

Not sure if it's true the other way around too (G in FAA land), but if you fly anything with a N on it outside the USA and there are conflicting regulations, the more limiting regulation is the one you have to go by...

[Max Shutterspeed]

At risk or re-igniting the legal fire, there's a Behind The Scenes video out now.

1b-8Lnee27I

For the camera geeks, it seems to me like an awful lot of it was shot on the brilliant Canon 5D Mk2.

[SilsoeSid]

I'm reminded of the wise words of my first rotary instructor, before we even touched the aircraft;

"You start out with 2 bags.
One, a full bag of luck, the other an empty bag of experience.
The aim is to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck is empty."


Still learning!
SS
:ok:

[madman1145]

For the Robby haters, they seem to forget how much the R44 has in common with the classic Porsche 911 ..

Both of them has:
- A flat six piston engine
- A rear low mounted engine
- An air cooled engine

Show me what other heli has that many things in common with the great 911 ..
So a very appropriate heli to use in that movie, isn't it :p ..

- Madman

[eivissa]

1RDx7QbNtIk

The latest Top Gear DVD features similar good shots of a Raven II chasing a Bowler.

Cant say the rest of the DVD is worth watching, but this scene is actually quite entertaining:

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/6492/85151454.jpg

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/434/35530352.jpg

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/49/zwischenablage11.jpg

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/5650/zwischenablage22d.jpg

http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/7984/zwischenablage23.jpg

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/8288/zwischenablage29.jpg

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7320/zwischenablage33.jpg

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/6672/zwischenablage34.jpg

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3695/zwischenablage35e.jpg

http://img602.imageshack.us/img602/4792/zwischenablage40.jpg

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1719/zwischenablage44.jpg

[JimBall]

TG shot at Anglesey about 2 months before JK shoot. And with Rule 5 exemptions in place.

[SilsoeSid]

For the Robby haters, they seem to forget how much the R44 has in common with the classic Porsche 911 ..

Both of them has:
- A flat six piston engine
- A rear low mounted engine
- An air cooled engine

Show me what other heli has that many things in common with the great 911 ..


Can we compare the R22 to a 2CV then? .....except that the 2CV can carry twice as many people :p
;)

[eivissa]

...and the 22 has twice as many cylinders!

[FLY 7]

Top Gear's Richard Hammond has a 911 and an R44 RII.

Apparently, the Top Gear presenters constantly mock eachother's cars, interests, pursuits, etc, and Jeremy Clarkson refers to Hammond's Robinson as a 'Robin' (as in Reliant Robin ;)).

[osmosis]

I honestly don't know what all the fuss is about; the flying was as boring as bat****. You could have danced in the back of that Robbie it was so straight and level. I expected to get white knuckled from gripping the sides of the poota like the good title says but I'm afraid I collapsed from boredom. If you want something to watch have a look at some outback helimustering or some of our Kiwi friends deer hunting. THEY know how to work an airframe.

YouTube - R22 active mustering machine.avi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEIUTgZSrHs)

YouTube - 500 abuse (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFtW00t9geo)

[farmpilot]

I think you will find it was shot with two 7D's

[JimBall]

Full Nemesis v R44

ij7xPLQ-1PY

[Senior Pilot]

I shall not be posting on this forum again.

Space Cowboy :cool:

So it's Hi and Goodbye? Welcome to Rotorheads, I am sure that your input as a helicopter pilot would be welcome at any time :ok:

[EWD7]

Nice car, cool vid and great track.

Already got tickets for 19th April in Man.

If need somewhere to land in south Manchester Send PM

Safe flying

Fellow R44 owner

[EN48]

1/4 of a million pounds is alot of money.

Just barely getting started where helicopters are concerned. Entry level to be sure.

[EN48]

Show me what other heli has that many things in common with the great 911 ..



Well, just keep in mind that this is TODAY's Robbie you are comparing to a mid 1970's 911. Almost 4 decades later and the Robbie is still stuck in the 70's. Actually stuck in a much earlier time. Engine origin dates to 1940's or 1950's. Teetering 2 blade MR system dates to mid 1940's. Etc.

Now compare today's Robbie to today's 997 Turbo S. I think you will see that the similarities are slight. The R44 is a most primitive machine by comparison, and costs three times as much.

[starflex3]

If all you guy's who think flying helicopters low level is a dangerous activity, and it should never be done, THEN GO FLY AEROPLANES!
Get a life and have some fun!

[EN48]

I honestly don't know what all the fuss is about;


Agree. A pointless, "look at me, aint I cool" effort. Hard to believe that so much in the way of people, time and money was put into this. Perhaps for publicity, but then I dont have a clue as to who this bloke is (before or after the video.)

[madman1145]

EN48. You said it yourself. 997. So why bring that model on the table. Porsche might badge it as a 911, but it really isn't, is it?
Not having dicked down to details, but I bet the 997 has as much in common with the original 911 like the RS in the video, as the 959 has. And that one was advertised separately. And so was the 356 ..

If you compare the same decades between cars and helicopters, be fair and give them the same point of origin, the same timeline. When was the first car launched? - And the first helicopter?

I am certainly not denying that the Robby is a simple helicopter. By all means, it is, that is the whole point of Frank's design. KISS you know - Hence choosing the 2-blade design :) ..

So pick out a heli that has more in common with the classic Porsche 911 than the R44 ..

- madman

[newfieboy]

G-JKAY

Went to the same public school as you. Although a tad earlier....if you think your R44 expensive, don;t go turbine......:ok: Hopefully now you have discovered PPrune, I;m pretty sure even if you don;t post again, it will be in your favourite list.......:)

[HeliAl]

Meet J Kay on the shoot and flew with him. And he flew very well and listen to all the safety points regarding the handling and the limitations of the conditions and helicopter.

The helicopter preformed faultlessly. The car is a classic and certainly got put through it's paces, it looked great and sounded superb.

He is a great character and total aviator, and still owes me a beer!
Be good to meet up again.:ok:

[FLY 7]

I posted the original link to the film, not to provoke controversy, but because I liked the inter-reaction between the helicopter, the car and the music.

I do remember when Jay Kay was on Top Gear being interviewed by Clarkson, he said that he was really into 911RSs, and Clarkson looked puzzled and asked "why, surely one day it will try and kill you?" JK just looked bemused. Good job he didn't mention he was also into helicopters!

But, I thought then that the real similarity between a helicopter and a 'real' 911 is nothing to do with the mechanical configuration - it's all to do with the tactile feel and feedback that they both provide.

The 2.7RS is a still regarded as one of the greatest cars of all time, because it is so light and responsive. All the controls respond to the smallest inputs and you can feel exactly what the car is doing, or about to do - exactly the same as a good helicopter.

Both can bite back if mis-handled (perhaps not suited to Clarkson's driving style :bored:), but with care and concentration there is no reason why both are not blissfully safe and addictive fun.

Everyone should have a helicopter and an RS ;)

One difference though - the R44 is likely to depreciate, whilst a 2.7RS is likely to appreciate.

[EN48]

So pick out a heli that has more in common with the classic Porsche 911 than the R44


Allow me to point out that a 911 Carrera 2.7 RS is NOT a "classic Porsche 911." Classic, yes, but a limited production vehicle with many mods vs the production 911 of similar vintage: engine, chassis, suspension, trim, etc.

IMHO, the Bell 206 has more in common with the 911 than the R44. Both initially introduced mid 1960's and tweaked over a many year evolution period. Both well above "entry level" in sophistication, pricing, etc.

The R44 was introduced in 1992. One would expect that a near 30 year time difference would produce a more "modern" aircraft.

[handbag]

Mabey I should make a song about prune....!Now I can't quite believe those are the words of an educated guy.

Anyway, If you wish to compose a little something around pprune - MAYBE I could suggest a song title? The good, the bad and the ugly !;)

[supervac]

G JKAY
Ignore the jealous s--ds and enjoy yourself. Be lucky and post some more video.

[krypton_john]

JK, I take your point about the R44 being expensive - not many cars cost as much!

However I fear as a private R44 owner you haven't seen the start of it as I guess you'll only be getting in a hundred hours a year in it, probably less. After 12 years you've used up half the component life but all the airframe life and be looking at a rebuild at some $160K (?)

Maybe it would be cheaper to own a 2nd hand MD500 depending on the hours you fly. Not to mention a great deal cooler! Any private MD500 owners care to comment?

[stringfellow]

j-kay.

..... we knew you would be back!!

md500. fast helicopters shoreham dennis kenyon in the left seat.
bell huey, look at huey.com.. there is one operational in lancashire but dont know if they do test flights.
gazelle.. dont know but know a fascinating private owner who is fanatical about them, pm me for details.

and loved the r44 vid.