Pilot shortage in EK

[flaphandlemover]

Got pulled out the other day on reserve and CC told me that they needed urgent guys...

They had to call out 40 some people and where still short for some flights the next day.

AAR did a good job... saved millions for the company last year...:ugh:
I am sure he got a BIIIIG BONUS for himself. And now he is too greedy to pay it back to EK, to make up for the millions we are loosing due to the miss management he is responsible for.

Very wise to halt recruitment last year and now they are expecting up to 3 AC per month next year.

Beside: the new IAH flight requires 70+ Pilots a month.....

Well done :D:D:D

[Wizofoz]

This is the bit I can't understand.

We are not yet getting any aircraft we weren't expecting. Were we planning to utilise them less?

Someone got the sums very VERY wrong.

I heard Flight Ops has had to cop to Tim that they can't handle any new routes for at least 12 months...

Believe he was not best pleased.....

[trimotor]

Rumour is factoring is about to disappear. Again.

Bet that won't help rostering and the required numbers.

Or the 2nd daily IAH and LAX ops...

[allaru]

Yes indeed, uncle Alan will soon be receiving the bad news letter from the GCAA stating that on augmented flights you may only log hours on the the stick, but that all of the hours shall count towards the 100hr monthly, and 900hr annual limit.

Numerous guys being rostered ULR flights and being factored will now have to be sent on office duties, or leave. "Oh Im sorry I thought that shredder was a photo copier". "Delete all..oops."

[Laker]

allaru,

How do you know about this letter from the GCAA?

[halas]

Flappy,

Each IAH and all other ULR flights require in excess of 40 drivers per departure, when you account for days off required before and after the flight, plus the flight itself and the augment team and any standby issued. They sap a lot of drivers!

halas

[SOPS]

I have got an idea....lets send all the Pilots a b@@s@it letter explaining why the overtime limit is raised to 93 hours....that will work..for about 9 months:ugh: And to be fair I think think the factoring idea (for the second time) was signed off by Uncle Ed...who came, saw, destroyed and then left the building

[skyvan]

I heard the story that the GCAA had stopped EK from raising the annual limit to 1000hrs last year because of the factoring.

If this is the case, then with no factoring, the limit could well be raised to 1000hours.

This will have little to no effect on us, many of us are already operating in the 950-980 unfactored hours for the last 12 months, and factoring brought it to 850-890 hours.

I do suspect the Captains will suddenly find "quiet" months, since they have been working 5-10 hours/month harder than us F/Os for quite a while, and it was the factoring that brought them barely within the 900 hour limit.

[MosEisley]

The staffing problem could be easily fixed in the same way they solve any problem in this part of the world. Throw money at it. A significant increase in pay would attract all the candidates they need. The resulting numbers could then be used to improve life style by reducing individual flying hours and increasing days off. This would, in turn, attract even more people and make EK the premier job in the industry. Sure, it would cut a little into the 1 billion plus profits, but it would fix the problem.

The rhetorical question then: will EK management see beyond their short term profits (which would still be staggeringly high) and look at long term, sustainable and stable growth strategies?

The only thing stopping EK from taking over the planet is staffing and there is no one willing to turn the ship from the iceberg looming in front.

p.s. just ran some very rough numbers and here's what I came up with. Based on current staffing levels and everything else remaining equal, EK could raise starting FO pay to 36000 dhs and starting CA pay to 50000 dhs and it would cost about 30 million dhs annually. Considering their 5 Billion dhs profit, its a drop in the bucket.

[Gulf News]

The higher management at Emirates do not understand the philosophy of incentive. If there is a crewing problem and the DGCA start playing hardball Tim will tell them to fix it with creative thinking and that is what they will do. Be prepared for the return of the 24 hr ULR layover.

They will quite happily cop a few ASRs rather than upset the business plan or bottom line.

[Wizofoz]

GN,

Actually, I've heard that one thing the FAA IS adament about is 48hr min layovers for ULR- They are apparently unhappy with the 26hr JFK.

[max magic]

Mos eisley might be a funny guy ..

But he's right ! cash is king in this part of the world ! .. increase the salary and guys will apply here ...

[three eighty]

increase the salary and guys will apply here

They already are

[Aussie]

well not really mate..... Plenty of guys applying to go over now with more then enough exp willing to fly on whats offered today :)

[Camelard]

I think OBOGS is suggesting that MosEisley's calculations might be incorrect. If you were to raise the monthly basic by the amount suggested it would probably cost the company nearer 300 million Dhs annually rather than the 30 million quoted... but I might be completely wrong.

[ATPMBA]

< age 52 to join EK.

[gotoindia]

Wiz-

I think you hit the nail right on the head re 48 hrs layover on ULR flights to USA. Last November, Delta was told to make JFK-DEL 48 hrs. Previously it was 24. Also, I flew on EY and the purser asked me if all our ULR layovers were becoming 48 hrs min. Now why would an EY purser ask a question like that? Of course, she is closer to GCAA HQ than we are.

GTI

[Wizofoz]

2500 pilots,

Approx 10 000dhs/mth raise

2 500*10 000*12= 300 000 000.

Yeah, a little out on the sums Mos.

But then, how much will canceled flights and lease payments on Aeroplanes sitting around doing nothing cost?

[vee tail]

I have heard rumours here in OZ that they are going to drop the Jet requirement and call it turbo prop instead to get the required guys for recruitment.
Is this fact or fiction............... on a rumour network:ok:

[411A]

...that they are going to drop the Jet requirement and call it turbo prop instead to get the required guys for recruitment.


That should have been done years ago, in order to blunt the general F/O sense of entitlement at EK.:}

[MosEisley]

Yep, thanks for the correction, my figures were monthly not annually. So by my number it would be 360 million dhs per year. Even at those numbers, they still make 1+ billion. Staffing the airline will be the biggest challenge. Spend some money, problem solved and they will be able to actually fly all the airplanes they plan on buying.

[fatbus]

JFK and YYZ are SLR ( can be done with 3 pilots on a seasonal basis) and as such 24h layover will stay, not sure about OZ

[troff]

EK is making an average of US$125,000,000 profit a week. Last week was their best ever: US$175,000,000. Can they afford to give the crews a raise? You do the math.
T

[M-rat]

EK is making an average of US$125,000,000 profit a week.

Troff... Umm... shake your head buddy, your brain is stuck. These numbers are not realistic.

[Aussie]

With regards to your comment ( dont know how to get your quote in this space :() Before they change the req to allow Turboprop guys to apply, there are still heaps of ERJ145/CRJ200 guys with jet exp but below the 30T rule, so im guessing thatll be the first to be removed before they look at turboprops...

[M-rat]

A380 Driver, Troff

Thanks for that. I know this company is run by CC and not Flt Ops, but one week's revenue is not an average. And frankly I do consider the source.

Now that I've thought it through a bit more carefully, I actually think this number is conservative. My apologies to both of you. I suspect we're at least on target for the published stated profit target of 1.45 billion USD, which was last year's result.

Based on management rumblings in our Weekly Updates that we are on target, this would presume a weekly profit of about 2.4 million USD, significantly more than we're discussing at the moment.

Those said rumblings at times intimate that we're ahead of our target... I like the sound of all of that! Perhaps it may be of some material consolation next May when the Fiscal 2010 announcement is made.

I remain hopeful.

[Laker]

$125,000,000USD/week????! That's about 6.5 BILLION USD in profit per year! Hmmm nice profit sharing check...LOL

[Praise Jebus]

Aussie, I think one of the obstacles to Turbo Prop experience is the need to do base training. The EK sims I am pretty sure, are only zero flight time if the candidate has 1000hs jet transport, otherwise its bash the circuit at RAK.

[411A]

... otherwise its bash the circuit at RAK.
Been done before, in fact some airlines still 'bash the circuit'.
Among them presently are LH and SV.
Makes for a better all 'round trained pilot.
Of course, to do this exercise properly, the respective airline needs proper Training Captain numbers....apparently in rather short supply at EK.:ugh:

[InnocentBystander]

EK is making an average of US$125,000,000 profit a week.

The number is correct, only the denomination is Dhs, not US$.

[White Knight]

Been done before, in fact some airlines still 'bash the circuit'.
Among them presently are LH and SV.

Possibly (at least from the LH side) it's because they are CADETS!!!! Have you heard of zero-flight time type ratings? It's obviously a EUROLAND thing heh?:ugh::ugh: Again, you poke your nose into an airline that you no absolutely nothing about:\

Whilst I agree with many things that you post 411a, you should only post about what you know otherwise you make a fool of yourself:{

For example the respective airline needs proper Training Captain numbers....apparently in rather short supply at EK.... You work at EK? NO! You know the training department? No! Give us a break fellah!!!

[Flyer1015]

Drop the 30 ton rule so many RJ drivers from American can apply to EK...

[411A]

Possibly (at least from the LH side) it's because they are CADETS!!!! Have you heard of zero-flight time type ratings? It's obviously a EUROLAND thing heh?
WhiteKnight might perhaps like to actually take a closer look at LH aircraft training, then he might (but certainly no guarantee) have the facts straight.

[harry the cod]

411A

I agree with Whiteknight. There are times when your posts are let down by a combination of ignorance and arrogance. The latter being worse as you should know better. You're also good at those regular bating comments you often through in to elicit angry responses, often from F/O's. You're one hell of a wind up merchant who must get up the noses of many you fly with if you act anything like the way you write. :=

Your statement that circuit bashing makes for a more rounded pilot is simply your opinion. There are no facts whatsoever to back up that comment.

It needs far more than a few touch and go's to accomplish that.

Harry

[Praise Jebus]

The whole point of recruiting experience is avoid the need to bash the circuit and spend money. 411 doesn't have to look as far away as LH for an example, EK already does it with their cadets. (Didn't he know that?)

I thought 411 was a phone number in North America for useful information.....

[fatbus]

Sorry but the reason they put the 30 T limit was to exclude RJ types

[Flyer1015]

Sorry but the reason they put the 30 T limit was to exclude RJ types
No, it's BS. A CRJ-200 doesn't meet the criteria, but a CRJ-700 does. It's the same type rating, just a small differences course. And from the EK applicaiton drop down menu, the CRJ-200/700/900 was one option. :ugh:

[Aussie]

Mate, not much diff between the CRJ200 and 700 and likewise the ERJ145 and 170... in terms of flying anyway. Ones over 30T and other ones not. Both regional jets, dont see what the Ejet guys have over the ERJ drivers.... except advanced tech. which means they do even less in the cockpit ;) :E

[411A]

Your statement that circuit bashing makes for a more rounded pilot is simply your opinion.

Seems several other airlines share my opinion, and have for a very long time....in fact, quite likely since you were in short pants.
Younger guys think they know everything...many times they are sadly mistaken.
No surprise.:rolleyes:

[Mister Warning]

I agree 411A.
On the other hand, the new technology allows the safe practice of circuits in all sorts of conditions that are rarely available (nor desirable) in the real aircraft. When's the last time you let a trainee land in 40kts of crosswind at night?
You are a braver instructor than I...

[411A]

When's the last time you let a trainee land in 40kts of crosswind at night?
You are a braver instructor than I...



About two years ago, however, not 40 knots but 35...and wet.
He did just fine, because, he had superb training from the get go.
This fellow also came to the airline with rather good stick and rudder skills(from a B727), something 'automation' simply can not teach, no matter how good that automation might be.

[fatbus]

It's not me setting the rules about 30T. That 's just the way it is and was, if I remember correctly the 55 T thing included 732 ADV and not the 732 basic, (same same but different). If you feel strongly about it contact HR. They are always playing with the numbers. Sunday morning may bring a change.

[Aussie]

Yeah yeah i know Fatbus, sorry i wasnt having a go at you, just expressing my opinion thats the weight thing is complete BS because it doesnt really define a pilots ability in any way shape or form!

Cheers:ok:

[harry the cod]

411A

When I WAS in short pants, simulators weren't cleared for zero flight time ops. All type conversions involved circiut bashing. Even my first two jet types involved circuit bashing. My next two didn't and it made no difference WHATSOEVER!

Funny thing is, you're stuck in a time warp. While many basics of aviation hold true, and I agree that good solid training is one of them, technology has advanced. Your B727 friend may well have exceptional handling skills. Aircraft such as that are ideal platforms to gain that sort of experience. The latest generation are not. I see it often when guys interview here. The older generation guys fly a great circuit but are clueless when it comes to FMC/ EFIS etc. They struggle the most during training and struggle the most on line. As aircraft are now designed with high levels of automation, it's only right that the training reflects this. If you don't understand what it's doing, how can you ever hope to operate it safely and efficiently.

So, as I said before, it takes far more than circuit bashing to make a more rounded pilot. I only need to spend the first half hour in the flight deck to know whether my colleague is ex air force, airline sponsored cadet, or, self improver. From my 'limited' 26 years experience, only one of these three is as near as possible to the complete 'rounded' package. I'll leave you decide which one you think it is! Can't wait. :rolleyes:

Harry

[airbus757]

Yeah yeah i know Fatbus, sorry i wasnt having a go at you, just expressing my opinion thats the weight thing is complete BS because it doesnt really define a pilots ability in any way shape or form!


Not true. As a general rule the bigger the airplane the more international routes it flies which fits with the type of crews EK and indeed other international carriers are looking for. Of course there are always exceptions but EK probably does not have the manpower to look for them, so they set general criteria to help pick the best candidants.

7

[ROKAPE]

Knowing the computers and the box is great until **** is entered and **** is shat out or ATC/WX/terrain/inability/traffic/last nights curry paints a crew in a automation corner. S & R skills still count as an advanced aircraft is still an aeroplane and will fly like one with everything disconnected.

[411A]

Knowing the computers and the box is great until **** is entered and **** is shat out or ATC/WX/terrain/inability/traffic/last nights curry paints a crew in a automation corner.

Yup, EK at MEL was a classic example....as was AA at Cali Colombia, before.
And...before anyone cries 'fatigue' was a factor in the two mentioned, I say...baloney.:rolleyes:

[Laker]

LR3

I think you are way off base. Have you met any recent newhires? The pass rate at the interview stage is around 42%. Most of the courses are filled with pilots with considerable experience. The fact is that the world aviation market is not very good at the moment and Emirates represents one of the better packages out there. The situation is to Emirates' advantage as they can get qualified pilots for less than it might normally cost. They just went to Japan and Mexico and had a huge response. Are you saying that these guys have experience that is, as you said, "nowhere near what you had a few years ago?"

Let me guess. The experience of newhires at EK peaked right about the time you were hired and it's been going down ever since. Am I right? What an as#.

[harry the cod]

Don't disagree with that statement. Rubbish in, rubbish out was one of the first rules of computers. Always has been and always will be.

The main problem with MEL was that SOP's were not followed. If they had been, the 100 tonne discrepancy would have been noticed. And for your information 411A, at no time did the Captain ever refer to Fatigue as a contributory factor. He did, however, refer to numerous distractions and interuptions from ground personel.

Cali was a different case altogether and while wrong info was inputed, the Captains confusion with the workings of the FMC was a causal factor in the CFIT. Along with many, many other factors including speedbrake design issues. But, let's not go there. Boeing certainly don't want to!

Harry

[Dropp the Pilot]

Speedbrake design issue: fixed

So Boeing is quite happy to talk to you about it - in the FCOM.

[harry the cod]

Dropp

Nah, that's a cop out and requires further actions from the pilot at a time of high workload and stress. They havn't fixed the problem, merely passed the responsibility and ultimately, the culpability, onto those at the sharp end.

.........Unless of course FCOM version 39 mentions anything about 'autostow', which, for obvious litigation purposes, I doubt it ever will. :oh:

Harry

[Aussie]

Mate, i couldnt disagree more with your statement. We fly both the ERJ145 and Ejet at my company, and depending on the load factors, they swap and change the aircraft to fly to destination constantly between the 2 aircraft. Hence the E145 flies to 99% the destinations the Ejet goes -vice versa. The Ejet qualifies the E145 doesnt... whats that about more international exp? Your kidding right?

[bogey]

Dear EK colleagues; I'm in my 13th year and year 11 as CM1/Captain. There will never be a pilot shortage at EK ever !! If things become desperate, Uncle Tim will simply hire DEC's for any type at $ 20,000 a month or whatever is better than Korean, Turkish, Kish etc etc ad nauseum etc.
In any event, most of the ongoing posters/whingers on this forum, if given an engine failure for real after t/o at 500' in a Baron 58, ATR72, Boeing 737, or any EK type would end up in a shallow smoking hole in the ground a couple of miles beyond the upwind threshold.
GET A LIFE, stop whingeing and resign if you have the balls or the experience to go elsewhere !!

[Boeing 777-300ER]

bogey,

Your first part of your post is harsh but very true. It's the famous law of supply and demand.

With regards to the second part of your post (re:engine failure), I don't agree as it is very subjective.

[EGGW]

Treat BOGEY gently please :hmm::hmm:

EGGW

[White Knight]

Pilot shortage at EK
Dear EK colleagues; I'm in my 13th year and year 11 as CM1/Captain. There will never be a pilot shortage at EK ever !! If things become desperate, Uncle Tim will simply hire DEC's for any type at $ 20,000 a month or whatever is better than Korean, Turkish, Kish etc etc ad nauseum etc.
In any event, most of the ongoing posters/whingers on this forum, if given an engine failure for real after t/o at 500' in a Baron 58, ATR72, Boeing 737, or any EK type would end up in a shallow smoking hole in the ground a couple of miles beyond the upwind threshold.
GET A LIFE, stop whingeing and resign if you have the balls or the experience to go elsewhere !!

I like your style sir:}:}

[MrMachfivepointfive]

if given an engine failure for real after t/o at 500' in a Baron 58, ATR72, Boeing 737, or any EK type would end up in a shallow smoking hole in the ground a couple of miles beyond the upwind threshold.Baron 58? I agree. That's a bear pulling at the tail and no excess power whatsoever.
ATR72? Well. If you are not actually asleep...
737? Gimme a break. All that's needed is nose down by 5 degrees and caressing the CORRECT pedal. But - I like your style too.

[Wizofoz]

Well, I'll try and be gentle....

Bogey, you're a ****!!

I disagree with a lot of the more vehement whingers here because, at times, they justify their positions with arguments that are simply false.

I would NEVER suggest that in any way reflects on their professionalism or ability as pilots.

The fact that so few actually leave tends to justify my position- that, realistically, EK is still one of the better places to be regardless of the acknowledged problems.

The fact that those who DO choose to leave never seem to have problems finding alternate employment, often with premier carriers, shows that the standard of pilot here is pretty high.

[troff]

Whoop Whoop!
Thread Creep Thread Creep.
Let's get back on topic boys.

I say there is nothing wrong here. It's all good.
Now pass the purple Kool Aid.

T

[fatbus]

Wiz,
More EK 777 Capt's failed the sim eval at KAL then passed , so what does that say about the standard at EK?

Also , have you noticed the increase failure on PPC's lately?

[moredrag]

Christ!!! what was this thread about?
And I though we were overworked, where is all the energy here coming from?:)

[Wizofoz]

Wiz,
More EK 777 Capt's failed the sim eval at KAL then passed , so what does that say about the standard at EK?

Not very much.

It says a GREAT deal about the Koreans idea of aviation- and a brief look at their accident stats will show where that leads.

As to the PPCs- What Eklawer said!!

[411A]

In any event, most of the ongoing posters/whingers on this forum, if given an engine failure for real after t/o at 500' in a Baron 58, ATR72, Boeing 737, or any EK type would end up in a shallow smoking hole in the ground a couple of miles beyond the upwind threshold.
GET A LIFE, stop whingeing and resign if you have the balls or the experience to go elsewhere !!

As the poster claims to be in the LHS at EK, he might actually know....:}

[pool]

Ahhhh, we finally understand the vindicative, obnoxious and always oblivious answers of 411A on this site: He's been through such failure here as well, he's an expert!! Otherwise why on earth should he bother posting here but to rid himself of his failure by belitteling others.
This will not bring you back that cherished EK positive assessment, so keep sobbing on other sites, please.

[troff]

411A,
You have over 8000 posts on PPRuNe.
Get a life!
T

[captainsmiffy]

....but ask him if he owns a goldfish first...

[FcU]

No, only one post just submitted 8000 times. What else is he going to do living in the 6th century. At least he's predictable...:rolleyes::bored:

[SOPS]

please please please someone stop him......at 8000 plus posts he cant possibly fly anymore, he just sits around to annoy the rest of us

[pool]

Quote:
This will not bring you back that cherished EK positive assessment,
Positive from whom?:rolleyes:

Dear 411A. Just read and recognize yourself, thanks and good bye for good:

How to Deal With Rejection Syndrome


By Nicholas Anyanwu (http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Nicholas_Anyanwu) http://img.ezinearticles.com/spriting/trans.gif




This aspect of handling rejection requires deep understanding. You have read in most inspirational books on how to succeed, but most of these books discuss little or nothing of how to handle the dangerous two lettered word "NO". In most cases, you have ended up a good relationship because a friend, a wife, a husband, a business partner, associate or acquaintance said "NO" to your greatest need. Yes indeed, nobody wants to be rejected by anyone else but in daily human relationships, one should anticipate such and be prepared to give an articulate positive reply that can neutralize its effect. If you have not you have not mastered this art, you have to do so. Don't just accept defeat. Learn to say no to no.
This instruction is in line with the military philosophy which states that "If you want peace, you must be prepared for war". If at all you want grand success, you must be ready to arm or equip yourself with necessary fact that can enable you handle any form of "NO" or rejection.
In all societies, developed or underdeveloped, there are lots of mean fellows who do not appreciate other people's success or efforts. They create public criticism, shout horrible insults and create avenues to ridicule you, your family, friends and associates. These groups of never-do-well can create different forms of rejection. If you don't understand them for what they are, you may give room for a negative mental attitude within you. There should be no room for inner intimidation which indirectly affects your physical stand for success. Be sure you train yourself in the art of controlling external rejection, no matter whom it comes from. If you accept yourself and able to develop enough self confidence, you will be able to handle any form of rejection.

[411A]

How to Deal With Rejection Syndrome


This might well be directed toward some of the pilots at EK, who, it seems...are 'rejected' by their esteemed management....such as it is.:{:{:{

[EFC 3 DAYS]

EKLawyer wrote

Let's face it when continuing a flight with no weather radar to Lagos through the ITCZ and then destroying both windshields is considered risk medium by flight safety................

I would be more concerned as to why a crew would, knowingly, fly through the ITCZ to an airport located in an area that is known for massive CB activity with a weather radar that was inop?

One would have to ask the question whether the decision made to proceed was based on the pilots fears of a reprecussions from management for returning to base with what they would perceive as simply a broken weather radar OR did the pilot think that the best option, taking safety into consideration, was to press on and fly to Lagos without a weather radar during peak CB activity season?

Either way............ :uhoh:

[Panther 88]

OTOH, keep up the goog work, 411A. You make more sense in 2 lines than most with those sensitive little toes say in 5 paragraphs.

[411A]

OTOH, keep up the goog work, 411A. You make more sense in 2 lines than most with those sensitive little toes say in 5 paragraphs.

No doubt about it.
It would appear that many at EK were led down the garden path by 'pie in the sky' recruitment policies at EK, and now face the truth.

Are they (collectively) to 'blame'?
Yup...as there is no 'free lunch'....except perhaps for direct entry Commanders, who will be continued to be hired, make no mistake.
Is this 'somehow fair' to those hard-working First Officers already at EK?
No, and...IF I were in charge, it would be a different story.

However, I ain't, therefore...it won't.

[Craggenmore]

Ha ha.......The ignore list works..!!

[theaviator2005]

Hello ya'll :8

Don't know if I'm living inside some fantasy world where i make up crazy idea's in my head hehe but i been told the last God knows how long that EK is looking for F/O's and going online sure they do have the ad's running on Both the Website and even some other recruitment website's. So I was just wondering as i do believe i meet requirements set in their add if the HR department is just really slow or simply NON existent??? As i have had noooo reply for the past 6 month...

So i was wondering if any of you guy's might have a direct Email to forward my CV, greatly appreciated if possible :O

[fatbus]

Recruitment is going flat out at the moment. HR is constantly putting filters on the CV's on file to see what they have IE total time verse glass verse heavy verse nationality.

Just because you meet the mins does not mean they will be calling right away, but do update as things change every week.

Currently most,not all, of the new hires have loads of heavy/ glass/ international time.

[woofer]

It is not my intention to stir up matters. I just would like any feedback to the following question.

May I please ask whether EK have the intention to hire any DEC's in the near future?

[pool]

woofer

in short, no, not for the time
otherwise 411A would be licking sandals around here instead of posting drivel.

[fatbus]

"EK say they will only recruit DECs when there are insufficient suitable and qualified FOs"

That's what they said last time and was not the case, DEC's can happen anytime they want. If you have 330/340 or 777 LHS they will look at you .

[BusyB]

Tight Tight:d

[GMC1500]

i have rarely flown more than 90 hrs stick time in a month since i've been here (2 yrs). No doubt guys will continue to apply; good money, big new airplanes. I know it could be better and countless guys will tell you that here, but the fact remains, things are worse elsewhere.

[abZorbatheleak]

Hi Folks,

I recently did a flight with a GCAA inspector. A few things were mentioned:

-By January/February next year there will be an anonymous reporting system direct to the GCAA.

-Factoring of ULR flights is going to stop.

-EK did ask for an hour increase to 1000 a year and that was rejected by the GCAA, that won't change any time soon.

-GCAA working with clinic to establish a credible fatigue monitoring program as well as establish an annual hour limit for cabin crew.

-Calling in fatigued will be indicated as such on your roster NOT sick.

I was quite impressed with the audit and found that the inspectors were aware of all the things the crew are unhappy about. They did tell me that without paperwork from us, their hands are tied. I also got the impression that the GCAA are desperate to remedy as many of the issues as possible and that they operate as an autonomous regulator not controlled or influenced by any airline.

On a different note. I heard that the FAA is in town doing an audit on the GCAA and that flight and duty is at the top of the agenda. Other than the layover periods for ULR flights they would also like to have an 8 hour maximum flight time with a 2 man crew. I can't vouch for this though. Maybe someone else can give us the scoop.

[Flyer1015]

-Factoring of ULR flights is going to stop.
What is factoring for ultra long haul flights? Can you explain how it works? And what has to stop?

[Plank Cap]

Factoring of ULR (or more correctly Augmented) flights concerns how hours are recorded for the purpose of logging flight time. Most countries and airlines regulate that for the purpose of logging time, each airborne hour counts as one hour towards a pilot's 28 day (100hr max) and annual (900hr max) flying limit.

Not so in Emirates Airline, as the OM(A) states that if you are operating as augmenting crew, then only the seat time counts towards your 28 day and 12 month limits. (eg DXB - IAH 16:30 block time may only record as 7 hours in the company's system.) Therefore, depending on how many augmented operations you fly, your actual 28 day block time may be well in excess of 100 hours, and similarly your actual annual block time may well exceed 900 hours.

The original intent was to not count hours in the bunk or resting for the purpose of licence or command upgrade, but the rule's migration into monthly and annual flying hour limits has somehow slipped into the system. The reality probably is that due to the uncontrolled expansion vs. pilot numbers, the company's operation would be somewhat curtailed if they had to abide by 100 hours in 28 days, and 900 in twelve months. There are currently pilots flying in excess of these figures, and some have been for a while now.

The GCAA are well aware this is going on, but are as yet unwilling to stop it happening. There is some suggestion that even our colleagues down the road in Abu Dhabi do not have to contend with this blatant abuse of the FTL scheme. Undoubtedly this adds to EK's SKF (sick fatigue) statistics.

Shame on EK for operating such a policy, and shame on the GCAA for allowing it to continue............

[Flyer1015]

So how do you log it in your logbook? If you fly DXB-IAH, are you logging 16.5 hours or only 7 hours?

[Flyer1015]

Is the 30 ton rule still in effect?



If it's not, is there any other weight limit for jets as far as applying for FO positions go for EK?

[Plank Cap]

What you put in your log book I would suggest is entirely up to you. It is your own personal record of flights and as such most people would log precisely what they fly. EK will see fit to record the hours in their own special way however, and when it comes to your command upgrade will use their own figures, not necessarily the ones in your log book.

[Flyer1015]

Ok, how do you get paid? 16.5 hours or 7? You better get 16.5 hrs or otherwise #$*(&)@$&*@!!!!!

[Wizofoz]

Flyer,

You get flight pay for the whole amount and it all counts towards the productivity threshold.

Big difference here from the states, though. Flight pay makes up a relatively small percentage of your take-home, and the productivity threshold is 92 hours (in a 31 day month) so you don't actually get any very often.

Here we talk a lot more in terms of base salary than hourly rate.

Still, curious, but or otherwise what??

[Flyer1015]

Oh ok, that's good. But still, you better get paid all 16.5 block hours and not just 7 hours because that's the factor flying.

Still, curious, but or otherwise what??

You better get 16.5 hrs or otherwise that's some effed up s***! :E

[troff]

Welcome to Dubai!