ATPL ground school (dl) before ppl ?

[121ace]

Hi,

Will I be able to commence atpl groundschool (dl) with bristol/cats without a ppl or any flying experience?

Would be grateful for replies straight to the point.

Regards.

[G SXTY]

Nope, you must have completed the PPL before commencing an ATPL theory course.

[121ace]

Thanks for your reply G Sixty.

A little confused as to why students at oxford, cabair etc; are able to complete all of their groundschool before commencing any flying ?

[paco]

They're doing an integrated course.

Phil

[Greg2041]

You must admit, it is a bit weird though. Do you think the CAA are involved?

;)

Greg

[2close]

Not just the CAA but the whole debacle known as Joint Aviation Requirements Flight Crew Licensing Part 1, soon (ish) to be replaced by EASA's EU Regulations.

If you are on an integrated course then you simply do the ATPL Theory but you are not issued with a PPL, only a CPL IR.

The Modular route requires you to take one step at a time, PPL, CPL, IR, and for PPL issue you need to complete the PPL theory exams.

:O

[Keith.Williams.]

They're doing an integrated course.

A little confused as to why students at oxford, cabair etc; are able to complete all of their groundschool before commencing any flying ?

It's probably a little bit unfair to blame this curiosity entirely on the CAA.

Integrated courses were intended to be exactly that. Students would learn a little bit in the classrooms than practice it in the air. Then learn a little bit more in the classroom then practice that in the air, an so on.

Students were permitted to start the integrated course without a PPL, because they would do the equivalent of the PPL classroom study and flying before starting the ATPL theory. So it was all reasonably logical.

But the schools found that some of their sponsored students simply could not pass the ATPL Theory. So the money that had been spent on the part of the flying that had already been completed, was wasted when the student dropped off the course. The sponsors were quite naturally not happy with this situation.

So the schools changed the program, putting all of the classroom work at the start. On these modified courses anyone who cannot pass the ATPL theory simply never gets to fly, so very little money is wasted.

At this point the CAA should have refused to approve the modified courses, but they did not have the bottle to do so.

The CAA and the schools still pretend that the integrated courses are a fundamentally superior product, but they are nothing of the sort.

[MartinCh]

Well, if you did 3min research and checked out the mentioned DL schools, you'd know the answer. Anyway..

BUT, nothing prohibits you from making headstart by finding some resources online or lending/buying some books to study from. If you don't have PPL yet, I think it makes more sense studying for the PPL first, going for basics, then more advanced stuff. If you're geeky and know it all already, then why not reading up ATPL stuff?
The catch is, in modular, you can't be officially enrolled on the course.

Had I been one of those 'cadets' these days, I'd have found it pretty damn boring to read tons of stuff I can't relate to ('just yet'). Would anyone sane pass all the PPL exams before going up in the air for the first time? So why ATPL? :uhoh:

[Whirlygig]

Would anyone sane pass all the PPL exams before going up in the air for the first time?I passed five of my PPL exams with only a half hour trial lesson behind me. I make no comment on my sanity. :}

However, it was hard as there were certain aspects which made no sense but no worse than when I did my CPL(H) exams when they were all fixed wing based. :8

Cheers

Whirls

[MartinCh]

Well, nerdy helicopter types are excluded :ok: We know we're hooked up for life.

Actually, after finishing my PPL(A) recently, if I'm doing European theory, I'm going to take advantage of heli interim ATPL theory system. Asked CATS, still do it. That leaves me with heli POF on top, nothing else. Also, since I do plenty related stuff on my course for fixed winging and know and will know more about helis (CPL here I come next year in the US), it's not too bad.

True, for someone who does only rotary stuff, the airliner tosh must be a pain, so good vibes for Paco and his course.