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dcoded

20th Sep 2010, 16:35

Baltic Aviation Academy
Any one heard of them?

Google them up.
They apparently offer a type rating on the 737CL for 7000Eur.
The course is called "From dusk till dawn" and all training is done between dusk and dawn, hence the name and the price they claim.
The type is off course without Touch and Go landings in the 737Cl, but they can hook you up on that too, but I don't know the price but the carrier is Small Planet Airlines (never heard of them)

I am currently looking at the MCC which is done at the 737CL, the price is 2600Eur, which is fairly good.

So, is this a scam?

flapless wings

5th Nov 2010, 04:34

I am plannning to do my 737 NG rating self sponsered from them?
Anyone any comments or anyone who has done his type rating from them?
They will host the fround classes in Lithuania and FFS in London.

Thanks for an early response.

Kind Regards

tecbar

5th Nov 2010, 10:52

I only did my CRM course with them. Pretty professionnal, good installation, good instructor. Nothing bad to say.

flyboijai

20th Dec 2010, 08:43

the training hrs is less with baltic.:O

remixx

2nd Feb 2011, 09:45

What is the site of Baltic Aviation Academy?

captainsuperstorm

2nd Feb 2011, 10:09

and you think to land a job?

too nice to be true! get real, there is no easy way.All they want is your Lituanian dollars:E

SW1

2nd Feb 2011, 10:12

I think these guys may be more reputable:

About us : (http://www.airbaltictraining.com/en/about-us/)

remixx

3rd Feb 2011, 05:58

Thanks for the link. I've found many useful information about the trainings :ok:

typhane

19th Jul 2011, 15:38

Hi Everyone :}...

Any feedbacks about Balticaa????? I'm planning to go there for september 11 for a TR 737cl. They are quiet cheap but that can be risky. This school is running for less then a year (. I dont want to wast my time and my money. So, is there any former students who pass a TR in this TRTO???

thksss ;)

JMSA_PILOT

19th Jul 2011, 15:46

does any one knows any one that had made successful line training thru them?

typhane

20th Jul 2011, 18:25

Yes... that's a good question...So, anyone ????:confused:

Sirijus

20th Oct 2011, 16:51

Hello guys,

I might be able to answer a few questions about the academy and correct a few mistakes.

It started trainings in about ~1992 for then Lithuanian Airlines' pilots. In ~2006-7 the company separated from the airline and became Flylal Training. A few years ago the name was changed to BAA, that's why you might think it's there for a very short time.

The academy has got it's own A320 and B737CL simulators and a Fire Fighting trainer, there are plans for further expansion - this only proves that you don't pay to get the academy out of bancruptcy, you pay to get your service.

The main reason why the prices are not that high - Lithuanian salaries. For comparision, Lithuanian salaries are something like 4 times lower than British salaries. That is because the living expenses are much lower too.

About the Line Training - I have never asked about anybody who received that, but I know that Small Planet Airlines (which is in the same business group as BAA) is hiring pilots for their bases in Poland, Lithuania, Italy on the B737 and A320, some of whom will be/are pilots with little experience.

For those who are interested but not have heard about BAA - visit the site. Also the Marketing Department has made some nice videos and put them on youtube and facebook.

For your information, I do work there as well as study ATPL integrated. As a student I can tell that everything has been good for me - we are taken care of. But as I am an employee as well, it would not be politically correct if I told you any more good things about the academy.

If that helps - I am not paid for posting here, nor am I paid for an attracted student or anything that is associated to posting here. That is the job for the Sales Department, my job is unbelievably unrelated.

EDIT: About the 777-400 thingy - probably a simple IT team mistake, that will be corrected, thank you!

Good luck! :)

roma_ua

20th Oct 2011, 17:16

I`ve been there couple of weeks ago. I`d like to mention that their integrated course is pretty much interesting and I`d like to join the next one. Currently, I`m trying to get appropriate summ to join. Of course I`ve got my own doubts about it cause the course lasts for 2 years of intensive education, but it`s another story.

Sirijus
I`m glad to hear from a real student some feedback about the academy.
On what stage of your course are you now? How do you evaluate the process and your progress? Where are you from? Thx

Sirijus

20th Oct 2011, 17:40

On what stage of your course are you now? How do you evaluate the process and your progress? Where are you from? Thx 20th Oct 2011 19:51

Hey. I am in the first year and we have just started the ground school, still on the first subject (Principles of Flight). Though I have not started fully yet because I was late doing my payment - the CBT has not arrived as a result. But others say that it is quite hard and they do get exhausted at the end of the day. But progress is clear looking from the side and the knowledge is building up (as you might expect of course). I haven't been to all the lectures as I don't have the CBT yet (will receive it next week, a lot of catching up may I say), but the one's I've been to were definitely interesting and informative - the instructors are flying pilots so they've got plenty of stories to share, and they do. Most of them are able to explain you in English (well, the whole course is done in the language), Lithuanian as well as Russian, so when somebody doesn't understand, they might get help in a language more comfortable for them.

A disadvantage I can see - the course might be a little bit too long for an integrated compared to western academies, that's because of our local weather - when we can't fly, we just can't. But we'll see what happens, BAA has plans on buying more new aircraft so maybe we will use the good weather we've got in the highest potential.

By the way there is an Ukrainian guy (you're from there if I'm correct?) studying ATPL Integrated, maybe he could tell you more. PM me for his e-mail.

Happy to help :)

roma_ua

21st Oct 2011, 05:54

Thx, Sirijus for your reply. I think I`ll contact you or him later when you finish your ATPL exams. Then it will be more obvious how worth it is. Did you consider other flight schools in Europe? Chech`s or any others (not as expensive as Spanish or British ones)?
Have you spoken with guys who are on their second year of training? What do they tell about the weather and BAA?

Sirijus

21st Oct 2011, 07:59

Hey.

Well I have had done my research, some of the academies did offer something valuable for a good price, most of the reviews were good (can't remember though where exactly, I will need to find the tables in my old computer). However, weighing all the pros and cons, like living expenses, little to no negative reviews, etc. I chose BAA.

ATPL Integrated group started only this year, but I've talked with a guy who is on modular and got his PPL in September. He said that he is quite happy about the choise and everybody was helpful for him. Have you been here, you could probably also tell that the atmosphere is good, that makes a difference :)

roma_ua

21st Oct 2011, 09:33

And what about the weather? I`ve heard much concerns about it.
I`ve noticed pretty good athmosphere at BAA too :ok:
BAA still remains my N1 choice, but still looking for others.
Want to be 100% sure in my choice, or at least close to it.
Thx for reply.

bedix84

21st Oct 2011, 17:09

Dear All,
please make sure You already did all you re-search about TR-BT and eventually LT, because I dont think the BAA is cheaper that aother TRTO.
I will put for you he price that BAA gave to me and if you try to find other TRTO, you can find that you can do TR+BT with a total cost of 21.000 Eur.( 12/13000 for TR and 6500/7500 euro for BT).:ok:

Price for type rating in BAA is:

A320- 20500 EUR :confused:
Accommodation here in Vilnius for all training period is around 700 eur. Base training price is:
A320- 8000 eur. :confused:
Line training possibilities for A320 are 300 h (23500 eur+ additional airline taxes) and 500h (33000eur+ additional airline taxes).
You can recognize so, that price for TR in BAA is expansive.

other points to think about:

The simulator centre and equipments are good but the learning lessons and experience of Instructor are lacking.:=
All Lithuanian FO, coming from Lithuania and did the training in Baltic, failed the simulator assessment for Easy jet Direct FO
Small Planet Airline (737 and 320) are a very unprofessional company to work for: lack of safety, lack of information,lack of maintenance, lack of rules and standardization,and you will be flying little per months, maybe you can afford to reach 40 hours, you'll be always the third crew flying,discriminated as pilot who pay to fly and first of all no experience after you're LT,you'll be in trouble then to aplly other companies.:oh:
This is the direct experience of one Pilot next to me.
So said, dear fellow open your eyes and do some research and ask some young pilot here oin PPrune, that have got some SP experience...they will tell you!
You are advised!

Sirijus

2nd Nov 2011, 08:28

Small Planet Airlines is in Avia Solutions Group as is BAA, however both are different companies and BAA offers BT and LT not only in it. I talked to a colleague and she mentioned that an A320 self-financing group who have just finished are having their base training with Vueling and Line Training with Atlas Jet. We also have agreements with other companies and are always opting for the best solution for our students.

About the airline itself and the things you mentioned – neither can I agree, nor can I disagree. Again, we are different companies.

About the instructor incompetence – we have around 300 instructors from all over the world and of course not all of them will be perfect. But after having a bad experience with one or two, it is unfair to blame them all.

If the living expenses are too expensive for you, there are cheaper options (which would require some sacrifices – safety, comfort, convenience, etc.). However the price in a hotel seems quite fare for me.

About the line training costs – these do seem high and I can not comment too much here because nobody told me the exact prices and that depends more on the airline than us.

I can not disagree that BAA is not the cheapest TRTO in the business, but being the cheapest would mean that quality should be sacrificed in order to maintain that cheaper prices. However the price you said (20500) is something I can hardly believe in. That is why I‘m asking: could you send me the e-mail you got from us with the offer? We would like to investigate how such high prices were offered. Also, what do you know about our graduates being unsuccessful in the Easyjet assessment?

Anyway, we are sorry that you and your friend had a bad experience with BAA. The academy is doing its best for the students, but sometimes, no matter how seldom or how often, it may not be enough.

I personally wish you and everybody else a good luck with your careers, and hope you will find what is best for you.

P.S. If somebody has doubts about the academy, you can check BAA‘s Youtube channel for interviews with students or just buy a ticket and come and visit it. For the correct prices – you will find the e-mail on the website.

citationdos

22nd Nov 2011, 10:55

I just received this letter from them, they are really the most expensive TR in Europe.

And they are not good enough because a friend of mine went there and he didn`t like it at all. The way the promote therselves saying "we are the best and everybody else es bad" it's a very cheap way.
I don't know how they can charge that much in a country where the level is so low.

Just to give you a stamp of TR B737 which has got no value without flying hours.

We have upcoming B737 NG Type Rating Training since 5th of December.

Package include:
·Type rating training (16 working days of ground course and 36 hour in FFS) in Vilnius, Lithuaniaand in Brussels, Belgium.
Accommodation for type rating period with breakfast
·Transportation to/from airport/training center/hotel
Base training (6 T/G) in Cimber Sterling (for JAA license holders)
New Year celebration (additional cost)
Price – 24000 EUR*
Entry requirements:
100 hours as pilot-in-command of airplanes;
·Valid ME, IR (multi-engine, instrument rating);
·Valid CPL or ATPL;
·Valid Class 1 Medical Certificate;
MCC certificate of completion;
English level 4 according to ICAO requirements.

Sirijus

22nd Nov 2011, 12:01

I just received this letter form them, they are really the most expensive TR in Europe. And they are not good enough because a friend of mine went there and he didn`t like it at all. The installations are not good, I don't know how they can charge that much in a country where the level is so low. Just to give you a stamp of TR B737 which has got no value without flying hours.

My friend's best friend is an astronaut and so he likes peanuts :) This time I will only ask a few things - what kind of installations are you talking about? Is this about the CAE simulators or anything else?

TR price - BT and accomodation in Vilnius and Brussels included. You may have missed this part :) Sorry, but I tend not to like unreasonable posts

No RYR for me

22nd Nov 2011, 12:49

Isn't that "new"A320 sim one of the oldest in Europe? :confused:

bedix84

22nd Nov 2011, 14:17

I advised you previously guys..don't go there!!!!
All Bull****!
too expansive, lack of instrution and professionality!!
Thant's it...sounds good:ok:
Sirjus I think the days the BAA mention for accomodation are too much respect of the level of live in Vilnius, second guys don't expect a real 4 stars hotel, because it not so...very very low category! and People at the reception very cold and never smiling...not helpfull for your staying!!

Sirijus

22nd Nov 2011, 15:38

Bedix,

a colleague has told me about your friend's bad experience. I was sorry to hear about that and would be really pi**ed if that happened to me too.

Again, I appreciate that you notify others about a bad situation, but agree, it is a little unfair to spread hate (I do not know how to call it correctly) if you yourself haven't been at BAA. The academy is not the cheapest but I would disagree that it is the most expensive. And if you are not happy with anything, first you should say it directly to us, then spread the word. Not giving a chance to improve is simply unfair. Write me a PM if you don't want to show your name, and I will tell what you told me to the management.

As for the hotel, it is one of the easier things to change - you complain and we will just find another one. Maybe after having a bad visit you will never come again, but at least you would make matters better for upcoming students.

Also, about our management. They are a very dedicated bunch of people always trying to take care of their students. If nobody tells anybody about the instructors, facilities, apart from friends and on Pprune, how can we know if it is not up to our expectations, let alone students' in reality?

And if you get an all inclusive price, just ask for bare TR price. You can arrange the living, transportation, BT, LT and other stuff by yourselves, this will not make you a worse student or something.

Bedix, I will write you a PM (no worries, I don't intend to kill you or spread hate to companies or something like that), I want to ask you a few things personally, hope you reply.

Let me finish with one thing: we can't make everybody 100% satisfied, but let us try, god darn it

JMSA_PILOT

22nd Nov 2011, 18:27

Hi!
Since my last message on this post I went to BAA did my type rating and you guys are still here.
I really enjoyed my time in BAA.
Is it cheap? Depends on the rating and type, but remember, you pay peanuts you get monkeys. But do you really want a monkey by your back on a FFS?
We were a group of 4 pilots for the type on the bus and did it well.
Can't say it was easy, we worked hard every single day, but at the end it turned out to be very good for us.
Sure not every thing is/was perfect, we found some gaps on the program, but it was related with their lack of know-how with the new sim. For example the paper-tiger... we didn't like, and we told them our opinion and they gave us the option to do the mock-up on the sim (without motion) when the sim was free so we can practice better, rather than being sited on a class room chair and doing the mock-up on the paper-tiger.
Sure the Hotel isn't a 5* hotel, but who cares?! Your not on leisure... I personally didn't dislike, and believe me I've been on a lot of 5* Hotels.
Baltic is growing fast and they still give personal attention to their client relation.
Not many TRTO's have their own SIM, BAA its not like Cockpit4U, GTA, RJ, SFC...that use the sim's from others...
But this is my opinion and my experience.
You can watch the videos from our interview on youtube and suit your self's.
Cheers!:ok:

LTPILOT

23rd Nov 2011, 12:40

Just reinforcing what JMSA Pilot said,
I will not speak about my experience in Lithuania (country wise), hotels this and that or about what I did while I was there. (if you want to go to a 5* hotel, tell them they'll get it for you and it will be just has expensive has a 5* hotel anywhere in the world).
I stayed at a 3* hotel and it was cheap, clean and overall good, I didn't have a kitchen which was the thing that I wished several times I did, but I'll just talk about what matters.
I´ve done my A320 TR at Baltic Aviation Academy recently, and basically I have no bad things to say about them. Sure there is space for some improvements, but where can you get anything that is perfect right away the first time you do it?
The mock-ups could've been virtual instead of the paper ones, we should've had more time to use them, but from another point of view great CBT's, Category D simulator, staff that really cares about you and your opinions (amazing staff, if you are reading this, THANK YOU AUSRA!!), good, proficient instructors in class has well has in the simulator, people that if you are willing to work and progress in your career, will give you tons of important information and tips (things that you can only learn with years of experience).
It was hard work, we had to study hard and do our part, but in the long run I am happy that I did it with Baltic.

Sirijus

23rd Nov 2011, 13:15

---deleted this by a mistake

Sirijus

23rd Nov 2011, 13:20

Dear Bedix, I don't know anything about you, I know of the guy you wrote had bad experience with us and SPA. If the guy is you - apologies to you. Well there still remains a chance I might have mixed somebody, but anyhow what difference does it make.

So, my apologies if I caused any emotions for anyone of you. If anybody has any questions - PM, but on this thread - I'm done.

Sayonara and good luck
:ok:

bedix84

23rd Nov 2011, 13:26

:)
I don't know ---Sirijus , really, I'm not based myself just at words even from my collegues, ..you get wrong information! and even you think Am I what I'm not!
Last, I went in BAA and I can tell You how is!
and I took a chance to see also Kaunas and Lithuanian Girls and eat a Lithuanian pink soup!.....:O
I could repeat till the end that your price are too much expensive, I show you and to all the emails reporting the prices...and if you are finding some Trto more expansive than yours...please, put the names..I wanna see!
Most important, You asked me for the names, I don't like to do names, but be warned, if you are some manager, or director, that a lot of People mix flying with drinking!...JAA is JAA the same rule should be applied to BAA pilot airline staff.
I know that some can change hotel and use other mean of transportation...but you are not replying me correctly at what i said....
I said that according to you in these days of TR...the cost of accomodation is 700 euro...too much:eek::eek: for Lithuanian life style...
and is according the TR cost I think :p
This is my Opinion..this is what i saw !

French Pilot

23rd Nov 2011, 19:04

Hello guys,

I am one of the 4th pilots who have maked the A320 Type Rating at Baltic Aviation Academy. I must admit that I am very satisfied with that.
For sure we don't have Miami beaches but it is very nice. I can say that at Balticaa, the personnel, instructors, employees, everyone are very nice and kind.
About the Training, as all Type Ratings, we had to study a lot but that's not a problem because we were here for that and we had all support and instructors help at any time.
The Mock-ups are not electronic but I think there are thinking in changing that, but all the information are there.
For those who are thinking in Type Ratings, I recomend Baltic Aviation Academy and about Acommodation, I recomend looking for renting a house(if you are more than 1) because in this way you can cook, the food is cheap, what is very nice .

Anyway Thank you BAA :D :ok:!

citationdos

23rd Nov 2011, 19:15

French Pilot have you seen the movie "Love Story"?

The same feeling I felt right now when I read your post.

Your post demostrates that you are doing nothing in your home after you did your TR with them.

Can I ask you a secret question? Do you have double nick?

Guys, take care of this company.
When they have a lot of comercial in forums, it means that they are really bad.

bluesky-A320

23rd Nov 2011, 22:21

22 000 Eur type rating :ugh:
6 000 Eur Line, conversion training :ugh:
8 000 Eur Base training :ugh:
24 000 Eur BH500 (that means 500 block hours, pay to fly) :ugh:

Total 60.000 EUR !!! :D You have got to be crazy to agree to this.

This is all stated in the e-mail from BAA.

Do the type rating some where else! (and FYI the A320 sim was at least last time I heard not approved from EASA).

15 000 EUR for Type rating and 6500 EUR for Base training is what you should be paying. That is if you should be paying for it at all.

Open your eyes people! :eek:

bedix84

24th Nov 2011, 02:22

Hello Sirijus,
No problem for me, and i never worked for SPA (small planet airlines).
We are here to speak and put information and suggest the best!
So on, I'm on of the person that never bought a TR and I'll never pay yo fly( TO WORK)..said that...I really emotionated like CItadiondos...oh all this guys they fall in love with BAA:rolleyes:...ROMANTIC....:D:D..all new posters!!
I just wanna say that is not good to sell BULL**** to the new guys and make a big propaganda like You are doing with all this people!!!
I'm not confused between AviationCV and BAA (BALTIC AVIATION ACADEMY)...I'm talking about BAA ,Dariaus ir Girėno str. 21
LT-02189, Vilnius, Lithuania

As i said and I repeat again and again and as said from someone before, your PRICES ARE TO HIGH!!!
People i not gonna list here all the providers and Professionist TRTO..but the range of the price is really below BAA.
TR A320-B737 approx.12.500-15.000 plus BT(6t&go) 6.000-7.500.
compare:
Other TRTO: TR+BT= approx. 18.000 to max 20.000 Euro:ok:

and BAA: TR+BT= 20.500+ 8000= Tot. 28,500 Euro :confused::confused:

Cheers

Sirijus

24th Nov 2011, 08:44

I promised to stay away, but I have to tell one thing before I go.

Please, people, do not mix Aviation CV and Balticaa.

22 000 Eur type rating :ugh:
6 000 Eur Line, conversion training :ugh:
8 000 Eur Base training :ugh:
24 000 Eur BH500 (that means 500 block hours, pay to fly) :ugh:

Total 60.000 EUR !!! :D You have got to be crazy to agree to this.

These are prices from AviationCV, they train their students with us, but offer more than papers and hours. For more information try [email protected] (http://www.aviationcv.com/en/contacts-13.html#) . Also discussion about them has started in another thread. And for BAA prices try [email protected]

See you:}

citationdos

25th Nov 2011, 08:00

If you want professional people, don't contact them.

Never trust companies who only seek free publicity "by the face".

I contacted with 4 companies:
3 of them kindly gave me the information.
BAA just attacks me every day, every morning with an e-mail.
They are desperate.

bedix84

25th Nov 2011, 16:03

:) Maybe they wanna and hope to recover asap the money spent for the A320 simulator installation.:ugh:

bedix84

1st Dec 2011, 11:17

It's really a shame !!
I just got new and truly information from on eofe my friend..actually is a girl:p...working at BAA (office TOP Secret!)..that a lot of peoples sent the signed 60.000 Euro contract :confused::sad::sad: to AVIATIONCV.com and the program on A32o is fully booked till End of 2012:eek:.

Guys !!! you need more jugment!!

And to come back about the TR on 737 to be more precise..is 22.000 on 737 CL...!!!!! not even the latest 737-800 NG:ouch::ouch:

Stay far away!! and poor all this guys that are willing to pay 60.000 euro and stay for 6 years under this agency adn get, if is true, a salary of just 4000 euro just after the 5th year!!
It sucks
Don't have any word...:\

French Pilot

10th Jan 2012, 14:49

Citationdos, let me say that you are funny! You say that I am doing nothing but I am not the one who are watching movies.
In second, let me ask you one question: Are you with any type Rating ou working at this moment?
To finish this conversation, don't talk about things that you don't know, just because you don't have nothing else to do.:ok:

citationdos

10th Jan 2012, 16:03

Basically this company has got people who are not qualificated. They seem like yellow press.
Just give them your email and you will throw away your computer from the quantity of bullsh*t you will get from them.
One of the stupid questions: how many hours do you have?
When did you get your license?
I ask them why they were asking me that since I was only asking for the price, and they told me that the price depended on the answer of those 2 questions...

Rfortes

30th May 2012, 17:10

I would be interested to hear from anyone who has done a rating with this TRTO in the last 6 months.
Can you share your experience?

Thanks

crazypilot3

3rd Jun 2012, 16:04

i did in may and it was fantastic

crazypilot3

4th Jun 2012, 18:26

Yes Mark
And we joined a group of pilots and we had a very cheap price. If you have more questions don't hesitate to contact me
See you

crazypilot3

6th Jun 2012, 12:34

mark

i did a list of collegues that wanted to do the tr and we safe each 4000 euros
if you want to join us let me know

crazypilot3

12th Jun 2012, 06:33

Hi mark

Yes they lower the price because we were a group and we did a list if you are interested to join let me know, the price for the A320 (TR+BT)is only 19000 euros but only if you join our list because this is a special price for our group only
See you soon

thestef

19th Jun 2012, 20:46

Hi!
Interrested by this group.
I miss stg or any accomodation group price ?
Any group for ATR?
:D

Greg.M

29th Jun 2012, 20:15

Anyone doing their type rating (A320) with them at the moment? If so, how are they? I have read previous threads about them good and bad just looking for current information?

aviatorGRZ

19th Jul 2012, 14:41

hey,

I'm MAYBE looking forward to do a selfsponsored type rating.

I got an offer from BAA - A320 initial type rating + base training for 18,000€,
which is (if it really inculdes both) the best offer i've ever heared about.

anyone did already his tr there ?

Sad11

8th Sep 2012, 15:14

how much is the course?

appfo09

9th Sep 2012, 12:39

21,500 Euros all inc. accommodation, taxes, BT

and i'am pretty sure they can do a better price if you book it in advance !

Good Luck !

scud

12th Oct 2012, 08:00

Any idea what their SFI (Synthetic Flight Instructor) course on the 320 costs? I"ve got 4500 hours on the 320, but retiring from flying soon.

young1

18th Mar 2013, 14:56

Hi there,
Anybody recently done A320 type rating at BAA? If so what is it like as a TRTO? Any info would be much appreciated as I'm thinking of going to do self funded A320 rating.

P40Warhawk

19th Mar 2013, 20:14

Well I would like to tell you how they are as a TRTO. But I am just an integrated ATPL student. But the school is very professional. And an stable strong organisation.

P40Warhawk

20th Mar 2013, 15:28

Well as you can see there are not many advertisements.
Even KLM Pilots know them in a positive way.
And me as an Integrated Student of their FTO am very satisfied about the organisation and professionalism, and willingness to help whereever you need.

So if you can prove with facts that BAA is bad, then please come up with these ;) .

No RYR for me

20th Mar 2013, 15:53

Even KLM Pilots know them in a positive way. In what way? They flew over the building and liked the building?

appfo09

20th Mar 2013, 21:26

Pilots, fellows, friends be careful in this post there are some company staff just to trick and persuade you ! Unfortunately it's all about f***** money and e-marketing and this will never stop !

Just a warning !

P40Warhawk

20th Mar 2013, 22:02

No, BAA does the TR for 777 for KLM in LGW.

samluvsplanes

17th May 2013, 00:55

hi guys
ive booked a TR course for the 737 300-900 course commencing june 3rd 2013
has anyone else booked this course and as anyone done it already. would be nice to hear of someone else who is on the course.
would like to know their reviews. price is brilliant so looking forward to it

RedBullGaveMeWings

17th May 2013, 01:17

axl76fg

17th May 2013, 04:58

If Someone need more information about BAA...
Please feel free to contact me with pm,
I will be glad to help you and give you information about the quality and all the process and help you about any question may arise from you.

No RYR for me

17th May 2013, 08:26

AXL you are back! :8

Hope that the Cyprus banking crisis has not affected your contract too much. Yes we are very interested in how things are at BAA and while you are at it at ASG as well! http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/474063-aviationcv-asg-part-lithuania-2.html :hmm:

samluvsplanes

18th May 2013, 17:11

Hi
Just a type rating. Price has made me decide to book it, it's cheaper the IR.
hoping after it I may get some hours with a Far East airline, u never know. It seams its who you know not what you know these days.

axl76fg

28th May 2013, 23:01

Anyone is thinking to go to BAA??
Let me know in case

looking for

29th May 2013, 04:35

Find a place for 737 Line Training is very very dificult in the far west-East too....They requested 250H on type like minimun.

Trost

21st Jun 2013, 14:09

Anyone know if the linetraining through BAA is legit? Or is it scam? Only East europeans or Russians getting the slots?

Jean-Francois

9th May 2014, 08:17

Hi!
I took time to read all topics related to BAA and I would love to read some of the latest comments from the people rated by this TRTO!

How was the training? Quality, study time and the schedule! What about the BT?

Feel free to contact me as I would appreciate to collect as many information as possible.

Thanks a lot guys (and girls!)

sentosa1942

14th May 2014, 17:23

Hello could you let me have some info on BAA. I'm looking into attending their A320 TR + Base Training.
Thank you

marine_raj14

6th Aug 2014, 16:12

Can anybody please tell me if they really provide the Line Training after type rating?
anybody who has done their line training?
is it only for russian students ?
and What is the cost for it ?

P40Warhawk

6th Aug 2014, 16:59

Yes they DO provide what they promise. They will get you the Line Training.

And NO, not only for Russians. I have seen quiet many Indians there walking around and doing their 737 and A320.

But WHY paying for your TR and LT? There are enough opportunities in India right now.
Besides paying for TR LT brings down everyones Terms and Conditions.

This is been discussed so many times here.

PAYING For TR is not that bad if there is a REAL job WITH salary afterwords and long term contract, but paying for LT and NO Salary is freakin :mad: .

I did my initial integrated F ATPL CPL SEP MEP IR MCC there. I was very satisfied about the school, but that they do also P2F is something I absolutely not like in BAA. Once an employee of BAA asked me , what TR will you choose after your training? I said, I will not choose. The airline which will hire me , will tell me what I will do. And THEY have to pay for it. She was extremely surprised with that answer.
Because as I said, P2F brings down T&C's. As far as I know during LT you dont get salary in BAA's programs. WHY the .......... not getting paid? Stupid right? We as pilots are not some voluntairy social workers, living with the sunshine and air. If you work, you deserve to get paid a salary according to the demand of the job and its responsibilities and education.

I had two options after my training offered by BAA. One was on a very useless type. Where I had to pay 39K eu via them, but normally the price if you go via the airline itself is 26,5K eu. But they usually hire only if you have 1500 hrs TT. But still. Rip Off. 12,5 K is what BAA wanted to earn over my back. Perm. Contract, but paid only per flown Block Hour. 13,5 eu. In summer I could live, but in winter I have to beg on the streets for money to survive because will fly only few hours per month.

Option 2 was B737CL TR + LT 500 hrs and option without paying more another 1500 hrs. around 40-45K eu. No salary during LT but since they fly average 110 hrs pm ( which is above limits ) it could be done quiet quickly. But after LT :mad: salary. Cities where they are based are expensive so have to live with some other guys. Also the Airline is Black Listed. So then I might have hrs on type but hard to go back to EU because many airlines dont appreciate exp. by black listed airlines.

So you could guess already. I said NO WAY to those ''great deals''.

Why? Because 1, its to expensive and 2, I am against P2F as you can clearly see in all of my comments in any thread about P2F.

And since most of us needed to get a loan to be able to obtain our licenses, it would be nice if we could pay it back someday. And with getting no salary and just making our loan bigger doesnt help very much. And with 500 hrs on type does not make it a lot easier to get a job. If you have 500 hrs on type, most airlines do know you did P2F. And some companies have not so much respect for guys who did that.

Going the way with the least resistance aint the best way.

There are other ways to get your first break. It is just the question how hard you want to work and the sacrifices you want to make ( not talking about paying a :mad: load of money on P2F ).

Myself I am now Cabin Crew. And I hope via that way to get my Pilot job. And in this airline I will not need to pay for my own rating. Nothing is guaranteed , but it might be my way. Till I get that green light, I will work my ass off as a CC. I appreciate it very much that I had the opportunity to work here as CC. Nice airline with nice fleet.

You need to DESERVE your place.

jommi

12th May 2015, 10:31

They offer but not guarantee this LT. They will tell you this LT will depend only on your performance...

It is an easy way to attract and sell TRs nowadays.

There is a lack of instruction and no time between sessions so in some cases you will have to take extra sessions and get very stressed.

My advice is to try to get the old way, getting more experience being a FI or going to to other countries.

If you want to do a LT, go and request a contract beforehand in other places, otherwise do not do a TR and waste a lot of money, because you will lose your training and no company will be interested in you.

P40Warhawk

12th May 2015, 12:39

Just dont participate in Line Trainings in the First Place . :yuk:

But maybe even this year P2F will be banned. FINALLY.

RedBullGaveMeWings

12th May 2015, 13:52

P40Warhawk, do you know anything we don't know against P2F?

tali

1st Jun 2015, 14:15

I have a couple of close friends of mine, they didnt even got the chance to get an interview for the line training......

I know they both performed more than good, and one of them with 3000h tt on jets..

They promisse assesment for line training blablabla...but it seems they have very few positions for line training (if they have any)....

I would never recomend paying for a type rating and if u want the paper go to better schools....simulator in baa sucks... Back visual and really really worn out.....

Cheers!!

pestilence

2nd Feb 2016, 14:31

Quite "professional" staff, who cant' tell the difference between cat and mouse. I had a chance to talk to their project manager, after I was switched to other person to handle all my inquiries, apparently if you want start from zero to hero - ATPL , there is assessment fee 200 Euros, for English, Navigation, Motivation - sort of why should school choose you, if sort of I am enrolling to Cambridge or Oxford, they try to make themselves more appealing then they really are.

A representative told me that I don't have much too lose, apparently she didn't take into consideration that going to that country, staying in the hotel, and wasting your day or two for assessment, it's not much too lose, never mind it.

My research which I made about the company BAA - the Baltic Aviation Academy, it's part of AviaSolution Group, which was a part of Lithuanian Airlines, which got privatized by construction company, and CEO Vytautas Kaikaris the son of the companies CEO, was handed the company, soon after the company went bankrupt and got restructured into what we have today BAA Aviation. the small planet airlines, FlTechnics, I am not who is going comment on privatization issues but some Aviation professionals some very good ones abandoned this company.

The Small Planet Airlines has 89 ranking in whattheflight... and in telegraph new dated in 2015:" Complaints against Thomas Cook have risen by 4,000 per cent in just five years. But there's one airline that's even less popular" guess which one ?

danirao

30th Mar 2016, 21:27

I am planning to do my A320 rating self sponsored and line training from baltic aviation academy?
Anyone any comments or anyone who has done his type rating and line training from them?
They will host the ground classes and type rating in Lithuania and and line training in Vietnam with veitjet air.

ZFT

31st Mar 2016, 03:36

I would research what you are planning to do extremely well!

Warlock1

22nd Jun 2018, 11:05

fair warning to all: stay away from this place. Their sales and marketing promise you the world until you are enrolled, then you are treated like sh..t. Ground school is a joke! some instructors couldn't even speak English

Jurow

28th Jun 2018, 06:56

Could you add som details to your warning ?
What's wrong with BAA ? Are you a student ? In wich part of your training are you ?

Warlock1

5th Jul 2018, 06:02

Could you add som details to your warning ?
What's wrong with BAA ? Are you a student ? In wich part of your training are you ?

No, I am an employee.
they don't have enough airplanes. So, instructors are discouraged from grounding an airplane as much as possible, cause if they do, students will sit for days due to poor maintenance.
some of ground courses are jokes. not enough instructors to teach, so most of the time, you are teaching yourself at home.
if you stay in Kaunas base, you are in civilization but if you are sent to Istra base, you are in the middle of nowhere and you are expected to find your own accommodations and provide for your own transportation to an airport that doesn't have public transpo.

Jurow

6th Jul 2018, 10:20

Warlock1

6th Jul 2018, 10:56

Wow canadian employee with a FI rating, might be easy to find out who is hiding behind this nickname. As a student, it s a real pitty to know that my money is wasted to pay your kind of person. Move on if your are ont happy... so many years since the obtention of your licence I understand your frustration of training cadets who will jump on the flightdeck right away ��

Not frustrating at all. You asked for my opinion and I presented it. However, what IS frustrating: half witts such as yourself who can't even form a proper English sentence think that they will be in a cockpit one day ;)

P40Warhawk

6th Jul 2018, 11:18

No, I am an employee.
they don't have enough airplanes. So, instructors are discouraged from grounding an airplane as much as possible, cause if they do, students will sit for days due to poor maintenance.
some of ground courses are jokes. not enough instructors to teach, so most of the time, you are teaching yourself at home.
if you stay in Kaunas base, you are in civilization but if you are sent to Istra base, you are in the middle of nowhere and you are expected to find your own accommodations and provide for your own transportation to an airport that doesn't have public transpo.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Especially, I was in the very first F ATPL program in 2011. Yes not everything is perfect, but everyone was VERY helpful to us if we needed anything. Also with finding an place to live. In Vilnius as well in Kaunas.
Yes we had in groundschool an instructor who spoke very bad English, but he was replaced within a day because we as students said that this is not the way we wish to get instructed. The instructor was an University Teacher, who knows what he is talking about but cannot explain it in English. That problem was solved within a day.

Bad Maintenance? Nonsense. The planes are relatively new Tecnams and C172SP. We had besides the std issues and maintenance no problems. Every 50 hrs they go to a bigger check.

All in all honestly, I have no idea what you are talking about. I have been always in contact with BAA ever since. Done also my TR737 with them. And plenty ex students who got jobs rather quick after graduating. That would NOT be the case if the students would be trained badly.

Same now with the Cadet programs with Smartlynx, Wizz, Avion Express and Small Planet. If the airlines would not believe in the school, then they would have not wanted to work with them.

zac2711

16th Jul 2018, 07:46

Hi everyone, i am new to PPRuNe and as the title suggests i'm inclined to enrol for my pilot training at BAA, based on my research it seems like it is a good academy. Would be much appreciated if there is anyone out there who's had experience with the academy or an ex-student/alumni to shed some advice on the quality and the school itself.

I've also looked into the assessment process which requires a profile test and a compass test, and i have no idea what to expect or the means to prepare for them. I have just been brushing up on my maths and physics but im not certain if this is sufficient. Any advice would be highly appreciated.

cheers

Flion

22nd Jul 2018, 12:04

What are the differences between BAA and Pilot Academy website which also offers Wizzair cadet program through 2 schools Egnatia Aviaiton and Trener KFT? There's also L3 ATO offering wizzair cadet program? Which one is "genuine"?

Johnboy92

22nd Jul 2018, 12:58

Hello Everyone,

I too am researching BAA as a potential place to study. However I'm finding it very difficult to find any unbiased, honest reviews about this place. The glossy website and the polished youtube channel certainly makes it look like a very tempting prospect. But what is the reality?

Thanks!

Nurse2Pilot

22nd Jul 2018, 21:53

I've looked at this school too, can anyone explain why their school is right beside an airport but they do their flying some other place instead of the one just right next door?

Johnboy92

23rd Jul 2018, 13:57

There is a pretty good reason why the have their plane crash every year: Single engine last year, multi engine this year.
Don't be fooled by their happy facebook page. There are students who are currently not able to fly because there is no instructor or enough plane

Hi av8tor396, Thank you for sharing, can I ask where you/I can find information about these accidents etc? A google search has returned nothing - Am I missing something?

Thanks!

RomanK

23rd Jul 2018, 18:06

Hi av8tor396, Thank you for sharing, can I ask where you/I can find information about these accidents etc? A google search has returned nothing - Am I missing something?

Thanks!

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=213591
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=198340

Johnboy92

24th Jul 2018, 08:29

Thanks RomanK and av8tor396, I think it's safe to say, this one is crossed off the list! Having done some other research into the other connected companies such as Small Planet, my gut is telling me to steer clear and don't look back!

Warlock1

27th Jul 2018, 09:13

The academy is disaster right now. No one flying because many planes into the maintenance with problems. Many student have weeks of no flying, all time they say a new plan and new plan never happens.

Now recently ATC is not working all day so they close airport in the middle of the day. People are waiting many months between different phases and don't know what to do in this time. It feels like no one really care about students.

They have too many students in the school and refuse to invest for the facilities, they said they invest only what they need but actually it's not enough. Everyone still in very big delays.

When you try to organise your training nobody wants to speak to you, but if you have late payment problem everyone chase you immediately and say they will stop the training.

That is a dead on observation!!! Thank you so much for having the courage to voice it out.
Like someone else has said, don't just go with their happy facebook page feeds. Talk to some of the current students in order to find out what a disaster this place really is.

Jurow

27th Jul 2018, 10:26

Constant92

27th Jul 2018, 15:10

<br />I do complain myself about the organisation but still have the feeling that it's worth the money, assuming you're in a cadet program.<br />

This. I am still at the ground school stage, but I would also agree that BAA is a good option for cadet students in particular. To have a guaranteed job at the price we are paying is invaluable in my opinion and it is precisely the reason why I chose this FTO. Otherwise, I would have most likely chosen the modular route. The price of an integrated ATPL FTE/CAE/L3 was simply too high for me, so BAA with the cadet program I'm in was probably the most sensible decision given my circumstances.

I can only comment about the ground school part of the training - overall we are on track with the schedule, but the school definitely needs to improve when it comes to organisation. They don't have enough ground school instructors which means that the schedule you have received may change, as well as the order of subjects. Communication with the students also needs to be improved. We are awaiting clear information regarding the base in Spain which the training managers don't seem to have yet, this is causing frustration among many students.

As far as the quality of teaching is concerned, it can be hit or miss. For our first subject, our teacher was simply really bad. We informed the school and they dealt with the matter immediately. A few days later we had a new instructor, probably the students' favorite here at BAA. Some of the other instructors are also great (knowledgeable, enthusiastic, engage with the students), some less, some with plenty of experience but not necessarily on top of the ATPL syllabus. Like I said, it can be hit or miss based on my experience.

Another aspect worth mentioning is the flexibility the school gives you with the CAA exams. After each block of subjects, the school will schedule a 2 to 3 weeks CAA exam session. It is however entirely up to you to decide when you want to open a session at the CAA as well to decide on the number of exams you want to take. You can basically open a session at any time and the booking system is very simple. Gives us the students more flexibility, but I can now see that it also creates some issues for the school as students from a particular group end up not finishing the ground school part at the same time.

Jurow

28th Jul 2018, 06:42

Where you are getting such incorrect informations from?

Training manager and students based in Kaunas.

Can you imagine such big number of cadets and many airlines and they are having 1 plane only serviceable? [ /QUOTE]

This is related to the organisation of the operations which I do complain sometimes about too. My view on this point is that It will surely be fixed quite fast and that lessons will be learned.

[QUOTE] P2006T is flying now? This is not correct. They had 2. One is gone from incident last week and another is in maintenance now few weeks and will be again for at least 3/4 more weeks. No multi engine now in the school.

That's what I've been told, "the PT2006 remaining is due to maintenance but in the next weeks not atm".

ATC holidays? Wrong. One ATC left and no replacement for a while. Now imagine to be stuck in the middle of the VFR and no training and nobody want listen.

Well tell me how is this event related to BAA ?
I was thinking that our complains were not considered until one TM told me that they are actually working their *** off in order to get back on track and I don't question her honesty about it, because the tensions within the staff and students have increased due to the displacement of the operations in Spain and the new questions related to this move.

At the same time the school bought 2 new sims and new aircrafts (which doesn't solve the actual problem of the undersized fleet) extending their facilities so I think the money is here, they just need somebody with a strong background at the head of the department, thing's done atm, to focus on this part.

My 2cts

Warlock1

28th Jul 2018, 07:21

It is partially wrong,

The entire fleet was grounded for 1 day due to the crash (for a check I presumed).
All the SEP operations have resumed the following day.
The P2006T Tecnam is due to be grounded for scheduled maintenance in the next weeks but still flying.
BAA is looking for new aircrafts to lease/rent following this incident and the development of the Ab initio department.

ATCs have summer holidays like anybody. They have hired new staff recently so they are not fully competent at the moment, that's right.
I do complain myself about the organisation but still have the feeling that it's worth the money, assuming you're in a cadet program.

The contract specified that the training takes place for a period no more than 2 years so, you already know what to except before signing.
Some people finished earlier, and that leads to the common expectation that it will be the same for them.

If you pass the selections for a cadet program, I think it is still a valuable opportunity.
The groundschool is OK, they changed the CBT recently (Bristol > PadPilot).

More informations for the new base are supposed to be released next week.

WarLock is no more an employee of BAA despite what he said. Fact.

Spoken like a true patriot (employee) of BAA :) :) :)
Are you even listening to yourself? Me being a current or an ex employee of that place doesn't change the facts of what went on there until a month ago:
Facts:
- Never enough aircrafts. Instructors sometimes getting into arguments among each other because of this! of course, a student ends up not flying because of this.
- CFI complaining about instructors who are grounding the planes! (When aircraft is grounded for legitimate reasons, again, not enough planes! Students not flying for days)
- Students initially being told that they will fly at Kaunas base. Students finding accommodations and paying deposits in Kaunas, only to find out later on that they will fly at Istra. Deposits GONE, nobody cares.
- No public transportation in Istra! If you wanna get to Istra base you either find a cab, or pay the school hired van (each way) to get there.
- Some of the ground school subjects were simply jokes! Instructor shows up, says few stuff about non related stuff, asks students to go and study at home.
I can go on and on about the background of whats happening but its always easier to find out the truth from the current students.
As for me, it was the best day of my life when I gave you guys the finger and quit that place. If you feel like analyzing, ask yourself as to why that company has a revolving door policy when it comes to instructors and why nobody stays at that place for more then few months ;)

youngretired

28th Jul 2018, 16:24

I think you guys may read "pay a visit to the school and see by yourself" every second page of this forum.
Well, I did that for the BAA.
To speak as a someone has passed their inital selection succesfully, I can suggest please stay away from this people.
I've seen almost 5 ATO's in my life including some regional clubs, until BAA.
Even upmost relax one of those 5 ATOs will treat you better than these people.
And if you don't believe "the first impression", then you may still have some bucks to lose.

Constant92

28th Jul 2018, 17:45

Jurow

29th Jul 2018, 06:57

- Never enough aircrafts. Instructors sometimes getting into arguments among each other because of this! of course, a student ends up not flying because of this.
- CFI complaining about instructors who are grounding the planes! (When aircraft is grounded for legitimate reasons, again, not enough planes! Students not flying for days)
- Students initially being told that they will fly at Kaunas base. Students finding accommodations and paying deposits in Kaunas, only to find out later on that they will fly at Istra. Deposits GONE, nobody cares.
- No public transportation in Istra! If you wanna get to Istra base you either find a cab, or pay the school hired van (each way) to get there.
- Some of the ground school subjects were simply jokes! Instructor shows up, says few stuff about non related stuff, asks students to go and study at home.
I can go on and on about the background of whats happening but its always easier to find out the truth from the current students.
As for me, it was the best day of my life when I gave you guys the finger and quit that place. If you feel like analyzing, ask yourself as to why that company has a revolving door policy when it comes to instructors and why nobody stays at that place for more then few months

At least you're giving details and not generalities, and I agree with your statements.

BAA operations are harmed by the amount of new students following the success of the cadet programs and their lack of preparation to sustain the pace of their training due to the high ratio of students/plane. In the last "BAA to students" newsletter they indicated their strategy to expand the fleet to 2x its size (only words some will say, but at the moment there is no other options from my perspective).

Concerning the CFI, I'm not concerned so I leave it to you.

About the LMC for the change of base, that's a real pitty, BUT you're supposed to get you're deposit back when you leave your flat so BAA cannot protect you again scammers.
To give my experience, my roommate and I have found an accommodation before moving in and the reality was completely different than the description. We asked the help of my sales manager to find the solution with the agency and now everything is mostly ok (but really ****ty owner - again). At least, we had the support of this person in BAA.

About the ground instructors, yes it's a joke for certain subjects but again, if students complain in most of the case the instructor is fired (happened 2x since february). But you cannot really escape the feeling that you have to get the knowledge by yourself, because your main source of knowledge is the QUESTION BANK. But some instructors are very friendly and skilled. You cannot predict the level of an instructor just with an assessment right ?

Flight instructors are under pressure in this school like any other nowadays due to the positive economic trend for pilot opportunities, a lot of them have made the transition.
Any way with BAA you're getting paid when you're flying (because a plane on a ground is not lucrative), and the majority of the instructors want to build hours before looking for a FO position, like in any other ATO.

My point - BAA is a valuable option if you're looking for an integrated scheme with a cadet program - stands still considering my own experience. Even after 2 weeks you could find people being disappointed, that's the way it is and the source of complains varies between individuals and their expectations.

if you don't believe "the first impression"

Well my first impression was quite the opposite so I guess, it depends of your expectation.
Had the opportunity to have a little tour of the facilities and seat in the 737sim (cold & dark without studs).
Had the answer for the COMPASS test the next day.

The only thing is that if you apply for a specific cadet program and you're not successuf, they will not tell you why (like any other ATOs).

Nurse2Pilot

29th Jul 2018, 12:52

Why is it up to the students to complain about a bad instructor? Is it not up to the school to make sure they hire the good instructors and not the bad ones?

youngretired

29th Jul 2018, 17:36

Hi youngretired, it would me most helpful if you could describe what went wrong during your selections. My initial impressions were the opposite, everyone was nice, there were no surprises. Thanks.

It was a long trip for me to get Vilnius on time for the selections and I've made it on time. Obviously, being precise at timing was not their priority. I've been told to wait for the interviewer almost five hours on a couch in the lobby. The lady who suppose to interview me asked for a leave (I assume) and another lady took care of me after her scheduled skype interviews. There was no site seeing or sim-shows for me either. Waiting, drinking tea and water and more waiting. Loud students playing around and some more waiting. In the meanwhile the marketing people were not there for me to say hi.

My assumption is; before the compass tests and interviews, they already have an idea which candidates are more desirable for the companies and you'll be treated with this prejudice. I'm also surprised by people says in this forum how the people were nice etc. The only nice person was the admin lady who took care of me with little chat and couple cups of tea.

Those are my first impression about the BAA and our further interactions with them were not succeeded to change it to a better way. It's been a while since I was there and I'm not here to play any blame game. This forum has long pages of stories about this type of ATOs having their good and bad times, and as we are not their stakeholders, it's better to tell young folks when and how they are bad and what to expect.

Constant92

29th Jul 2018, 18:00

It was a long trip for me to get Vilnius on time for the selections and I've made it on time. Obviously, being precise at timing was not their priority. I've been told to wait for the interviewer almost five hours on a couch in the lobby. The lady who suppose to interview me asked for a leave (I assume) and another lady took care of me after her scheduled skype interviews. There was no site seeing or sim-shows for me either. Waiting, drinking tea and water and more waiting. Loud students playing around and some more waiting. In the meanwhile the marketing people were not there for me to say hi.

My assumption is; before the compass tests and interviews, they already have an idea which candidates are more desirable for the companies and you'll be treated with this prejudice. I'm also surprised by people says in this forum how the people were nice etc. The only nice person was the admin lady who took care of me with little chat and couple cups of tea.

Those are my first impression about the BAA and our further interactions with them were not succeeded to change it to a better way. It's been a while since I was there and I'm not here to play any blame game. This forum has long pages of stories about this type of ATOs having their good and bad times, and as we are not their stakeholders, it's better to tell young folks when and how they are bad and what to expect.

Hi youngretired, this is unfortunate and I can only sympathise with you, this is clearly not how the school should have dealt with you. Once again, my experience was drastically different... Let's hope that most of the prospective students have a positive initial impression - I'm confident that's the case.

Regarding your second paragraph, I have to strongly disagree... The school currently runs 4 cadet programs, the cadets are of all age, from many different nationalities (btw we have Italians for the Wizz, Avion Express and Small Planet programs, not sure about Smartlynx) and from all walks of life. The very purpose of the compass test is to determine whether you satisfy the school's and the respective companies' criteria before being accepted to the next stage of the selections. All the best.

skip_distance

11th Aug 2018, 05:13

Greetings all,

I'm looking to enrol myself for a self-sponsored type rating programme with Baltic. Would to be nice for someone who's been there in the recent past to throw some light on its functionalities with respect to trainers,sims,professionalism and anything else that I may need to know. I'm getting mixed reviews about the ATO ranging from " don't even think about it!" to some others who seemed to have a had a decent experience. My options are open, if someone could re-direct me to another trto that strikes a fine balance between being cost-effective and still maintaining training standards, would be of great help.

regards.

Kaeser

13th Aug 2018, 12:30

I’ve just read all your messages on this forum and as a AB initio student (WIZZ AIR CADET) in this school I would like to add a few things concerning your opinion.

Indeed, the school is overwhelmed by the success of their cadet programs and they’re struggling to follow the pace. It’s true, sometimes, I had bad instructors (specially for RNAV and POF) and the organization is often « random », plans and planning have changed every 2 months.

But to be honest at the beginning I planned to go to CAE and I’ve changed my choice when I saw the price difference (almost half….) and all the BAA partnerships. I don’t regret my choice and I’m gonna explain why.

- Even if the school has sometimes bad experience with some instructors, after each subject they ask us to make a report… usually when instructors don’t get good marks… they’re fired…

- Some of the instructors (Peter, Ylies, Airspeaks with real ATC Vilnius tower) are very good, professional and friendly. They try to do everything to help you, even calling you on a weekend to be sure that you understood the topics and propose you additional class for free.

- I can see that the school is really doing everything to help us to find a job, and/or a partnership with an airline. We are 13 in the class, at the beginning 3 of us started without any partnership with an airline (self-sponsored). The school has done everything to send them to pass new assessments with all their partner airlines (Avion, Wizz, Smartlynx, Smallplanet) until they succeed and now, we are all involved in a cadet program… the school could have kept these places to attract new students and get more money… they didn’t do that…

- Some of our good instructors were students before… (Mass&Balance, meteo, flight planning) , that mean even if they didn’t find a job straight after the ATPL.. the school hired them and has kept helping after they finished the training.. for information now.. 2 of them (out of 3) were hired by wizz air (helped by BAA)

- At the beginning of the training we were supposed to fly only in LITHUANIA (it means… being grounded during few months due to bad weather in this country)… they’ve opened a base in Spain this year to provide us a complete training without any interruption to finish as fast as possible… the price didn’t change at all and the school is even paying for the flights between Lithuania and Spain… some students are still complaining because they want tickets with extrabaggages… (just for comparison, at L3 they were supposed to fly to New Zealand, they paid almost 130 000€ and the school closed the base and now they have to fly in UK, without any compensation…

- And to finish… these partnerships with airlines are for me PRICELESS…. (just for information the Wizz air cadet program costs 128000€ with L3, and good luck regarding the price of the life when you stay 2 years in UK comparing to Lithuania)

To sum up everything , Don’t hesitate to get in touch with existing students.. it’s the best way to make your own decision.. because usually internet shows only the worst.

skip_distance

13th Aug 2018, 16:18

Thank you for your input Kaeser. Since you're already at the academy, is it possible to connect me with some of the students who're currently pursuing a rating on the 320 at BAA?

Kaeser

16th Aug 2018, 11:29

Thank you for your input Kaeser. Since you're already at the academy, is it possible to connect me with some of the students who're currently pursuing a rating on the 320 at BAA?

Basically, we are not in the same building and I know nothing regarding this part of the school :S , Maybe you can call the reception and ask yourself for some contacts with students passing the QT.

ZFT

16th Aug 2018, 12:03

hid3

18th Aug 2018, 14:44

Hello everyone!

A new member here, my first post, but been reading the forum for some time.

I am 31 years old, currently living and working in Vilnius (Lithuania). It's the same location where BAA flight school is located, basically only 8 km from my house.
I work as an IT engineer, also have some part time activities. I want to change my occupation, since the work I do is really dull and boring (same office every day, same people in the office, boring activities which I know by heart, no challence, etc). I finally decided that I want to be a (Airbus A320) pilot. Been curious about A320 for several past years, exploring it as amateur and somehow thought it would be ncie to do that for living.

The good news is that I have saved the required amount of money for the tranings.
Bad news is that I'm 10-12 years late to join this sphere :(

I have already had a quick conversation with a representative from BAA. I was informed about Wizz Air Cadet programme, the price of the studies (approx. 62k Euro, some amount is sponsored by Wizz, although no Type Rating in this price, as far as I understand). I was informed that in order for me to join the school, the following must be passed/obtained:
1) Profile XT test;
2) English language written test;
3) Compass test;
4) Interview with BAA;
5) Class 1 medical certificate.

Since during last 7-8 years I didn't have any interviews/tests/etc, this makes me a bit embarrased. I know that Profile XT test will be carried out in native language and is just a personality test, so shouldn't be difficult. I also believe my English is good enough so English test should go fine too.
I have checked my health recently (I told the doctors I will be needing Class 1) - almost everything is fine but I need a surgery for nasal septum... Not a problem, I will do that in case I pass the selection process.
However.. Compass test and the Interview part makes me worried a bit.

I have signed up at PilotAptitudeTest.com website and tried to solve maths and physics tests there for a few days. After multiple solving, I noticed that the questions start to repeat and I know the answers by heart :)

My goals (long term):
-Obtain CPL
-Start working at Wizz Air (or maybe there are better companies?) and fly as much hours as possible during first few years to gain experience and overtake the "10-12 years beeing too late in this sphere".

PS: I have had a 1 hour A320 similator session at BAA with an instructor. I think I did fine having in mind that I had no experience and it was the first time being behind the cockpit.

Questions:
-Has anyone attended BAA? How's the school? How's the staff? What are pros and cons of this school?
-Could someone please tell me more about the Compass test at BAA? What sources are the best to use to prepare for it, what to expect during the test? What is the percentage of passed/failed people, etc? Can I use paper and pen during the test? (Primary for math calculations) How long does the test last?
-Any hints, tips, tricks or experiences about the interview at BAA?
-Finally, is my decision on all the above correct? Or am I far away from reality?

Sorry for longish first post and thanks for your answers! :)

P40Warhawk

19th Aug 2018, 14:52

hid3

19th Aug 2018, 15:18

Hi!

Thanks for the reply. I've re-read this entire thread (and some more) but still have the questions, lol :)
I know some "answers" to those common questions, however, not sure how "currect" they are.

This week will try to look for someone who may prepare for a HR interview. Guess that'd be useful in the rest of life too.

Thank you!

Flion

20th Aug 2018, 10:21

hid3

20th Aug 2018, 14:17

P40Warhawk

20th Aug 2018, 16:37

To me BAA seem a bit like a scam. I sent an inquiry and since then I've contacted a couple of times from representative about my decision. I think a school working in optimum capacity would not contact a single potential candidate numerous times, kinda pushing for an interview. What are your opinions?

The School aint a scam. I paid for my training. They gave me the training. I graduated, and thats it. I got what I paid for.

A scam would be more like paying money and then your money is gone and you dont get anything back for your money.

FlyNorth24

12th Sep 2018, 07:51

With the BAA you can get an EASA licence for half the price in comparison to some other better schools. It is definitely not the best aviation academy, we all know that, but for 60+k eur you can get an OK training. If you get lucky, you can get very good instructors, but chances are that some of the theory instructors will be pretty bad, which doesn't matter too much since we all do the question banks mostly. The VFR flight training, you really need to get lucky there, some of the instructors are very bad, no one knows why they are here. Probably it is difficult to find flight instructors who want to work in Lithuania. IFR instructors are better, I have to admit.

XPDR7700

12th Sep 2018, 10:34

Can anyone on the course for the cadet programme at small planet airlines with BAA comment on the guarantee of the job after? Thank you.

PID

13th Sep 2018, 13:58

Strange enough, I had a live conversation with them, they sent me one email with the all the details (about the academy, numbers, etc) but never chased me asking if I got interested or not, if had any further queries, etc. Maybe They didn't like me at the beginning? :D

I'd like to ask some questions those, who have studied in Wizz Air Cadett programe and now are emplyed:
1) What is the internal atmopshere there at Wizz Air?
2) What is the work schedule? How many days you work, how many rest at home?
3) After the contract period expires (and let's assume you get promoted to Captain), is it a good place to stay work further there or are there better places/choices around?
4) What country/city do you live and what country/city you mostly reside? I mean, do current pilots at Wizz work more closer to their home or totally away?

Thank you!

Hello !

I been reading this thread and came across your recent messages. I must say, I get the impression that you are a bit reluctant to apply and the people at BAA can see these signs a mile away hence perhaps they didn't chase you. While it is normal to have these questions in mind, none can never be fully answered until you are in the industry. I totally understand that it is your money going onto a new chapter of your life and before you take the step you want a 100% reassurance and satisfaction. But believe me when I say that aviation doesn't work that way. Let me give you a few examples to help you illustrate the reality of aviation:

1. Let's say an airline pilot from Wizz Air responded back to your questions and sounded promising. Whats to say that you will have the same experience? Maybe that pilot is on a base that keeps him happy, hence the positive acknowledgment of the airline. But you could also get another pilot who is not happy because he's not on the base he prefers, etc.

2. So after your research and speaking with numerous pilots, you concluded that it's worth the 'risk'. But you find out that the scheme does not guarantee the placement. You find that 80% of graduates get the placement. What will you do? Not apply? Perhaps the 20% didn't pass their ATPL's or generally didn't meet with training standards or simply gave up.

3. But you take the risk and decide to apply. But now there's another problem, what if after you graduate in 2 years time, the economy is not great? You do your research and find that; problems are happening between the EU and UK, the oil can go up, another economic bubble, etc, you hear on the news. After all it is your hard saved money going into a blind faith of a good job at the end of the tunnel.

So, conclusion, you are 31 years old with probably no aviation background, Some pilots say yes, some say no to the airline, not every cadet gets the airline job and the economy is unpredictable.
Should you apply?

Option 1 - No. It's too risky, not worth the headache and insecurity, there isn't much information and help out there, too expensive, I might not even fly the A320, I might not even be based where I want, not for me.
Option 2 - Yes, because it's my passion, my dream. But I am also realistic to know the challenges and insecurities ahead of me. I will try with Wizz Air, if in the end I don't get that specific airline FO seat, I have a frozen ATPL that enables me to apply for other airlines (such as Small planet etc).

Please don't take this as a negative response. My point on this detailed response is to make you realise the aviation industry is very different than the 'regular job'. While it is very important to be realistic, it is even more important to have a genuine passion for aviation to give you the drive to apply and see where it leads too.

Sorry if this doesn't answer a single question. But I do hope it helps you decide whether you should go ahead and apply for it or not.

Peace!

PID

13th Sep 2018, 14:12

Can anyone on the course for the cadet programme at small planet airlines with BAA comment on the guarantee of the job after? Thank you.

No Airline will ever guarantee you a job as an ab initio cadet. If they do, they will most certainly have a star at the end of the guarantee (guarantee*).

3 reasons:

1 - Your training standards - Passing the aptitude test and the airline interview is just the beginning. Throughout the training you must keep your training to the airline standards. You may fail an ATPL exam? Or your overall pass might be 80% but the airline wants you to have at at least 85% (these are examples). The airline naturally mentors and monitors their 'future' pilots and assess their performance.
2 - Unpredictable airline economy - I'm sure you heard plenty of times an airline cancelling their orders or simply going bust because of the economy. This can happen today or when you graduate, so the brand new plane that the airline hoped to put you is not available now. Or the airline needs to cut costs and can't afford new pilots.
3 - It's not coming out of their pockets - This is my observation now. But I noticed that when an airline is willing to pay for your training and/or type rating, they are more likely to reassure you because, well, it's coming from their pockets so they feel more pressure to ensure you succeed.

I hope this helps! I suggest you apply for it. If worse case happens, you have an ATPL out of it.

Peace!

Nurse2Pilot

13th Sep 2018, 14:13

Nurse2Pilot

13th Sep 2018, 14:16

If worse case happens, you have an ATPL out of it.
The worst case is you have a license but no job and a sizeable debt to pay. This isn't a £50 punt that anyone can afford and walk away from if it doesn't suit them....

PID

13th Sep 2018, 14:33

Excellent post PID but I think you are missing the point of his questions. It is a search for information, wanting a look into the current and possible future as a pilot in this specific airline. Anyone who thinks any answer should cover every possibility (not happy with base, change in economic climate, etc.) is misguided. I think anyone who asks a lot of questions prior to embarking upon a very important and expensive journey should be applauded; decisions like these should be entered knowing as much information as possible, don't you agree?

Everything is risky and I suspect aviation would be even more so than other possible jobs, but it is best to enter knowing the risks than be blindsided by not looking before you jump. Peace!

I agree. I certainly done my homework before embarking on this journey. But I also found myself asking more and more questions. Spending more time being concerned while witnessing my friends applying and now happily flying. I believe there is a balance. I'm not eliminating the need to ask questions and learn about the airline you are about to apply. I am, however, enforcing the fact that some questions are purely subjective to the individual experience and that you will see yourself asking more and creating doubt/uncertainty.

Perhaps in 2 years time we can come back to this forum and speak to who took initiatives and now have airline jobs, and to who are still searching for answers.

Peace!

Nurse2Pilot

13th Sep 2018, 18:05

And as you have said, things may have changed and in two years, someone may have a very expensive qualification with no related employment with which to pay it back!

I cannot speak for the others but personally, I like these questions as it gives insight into the industry that I would dare say none of the general public know about. Good things (I'm based near home! Yay!!) and bad things (stupid rostering issues!!) are all realities in this business that people who are too busy choosing schools and finding the finances may not consider. I do understand that at some point, a decision has to be made and as with everything in life, nothing is certain, but still, it's nice to be broadening one's horizons while still on the ground.

hid3

14th Sep 2018, 08:39

Hello gentlemen,

quite an interesting discussion has started. However, I think you misunderstood my questions.
I just asked about the internal atmosphere inside the company (e.g. if there was a huge personnel migration, either joining the company or massively leaving it) and about the working schedule and place.

I don't think these questions are too subjective and everyone has it own opinion - no, I think these are general things. E.g. working schedule - are you working in your home city/country or not? Do you work 5 days and have 3 days of rest or you do work say 12 days and have 7 days rest, etc, etc?
Are there any short or long term timetable made for pilots when to work, etc? (basically am I able to plan my personal life at least a bit in advance or is it all spontanic..)

Constant92

14th Sep 2018, 13:03

XPDR7700

15th Sep 2018, 09:21

@PID @Nurse2Pilot thanks a lot I really appreciate the extensive explanation and will definitely help in my choices!!

Pilot_Beck

21st Nov 2018, 21:57

Hi everyone,
I am new on this forum and since I'm starting my training soon,I wanted to ask if anyone has recent feedbacks on Baltic Aviation Academy?
Do you know which CAA are they related?
feel free to message me in case.
Thanks in advance

_____________________________________

You can’t use the Private Messaging system, add url links or images until you have an established posting history.

hid3

22nd Nov 2018, 14:23

youngretired

23rd Nov 2018, 06:09

Guys, simple question. Since I wasn't accepted to any of the Cadet programmes at BAA, is it worth picking up studies as 'independent pilot'? Is it real to find a decent job later on? I'm in fear to invest big money in the studies and later on have the best offer of 1.5k Euro/month netto salary (which I can make as an Uber driver without any special medical requirements, expensive licenses, etc) at some low-end airline with bad Terms & Conditions...

Thanks
If BAA has offered you to enroll their independent scheme, just run away from them without looking twice.
School reputation is the biggest scam in aviation industry all over the world and you don’t need to spend €40k extra for that. Try modular way in Hungary and Poland then you will be holding your ATPL in 7-10 months at a cost of €45k tops.

av8tor396

23rd Nov 2018, 07:25

FlyNorth24

23rd Nov 2018, 10:03

I must say that I agree. BAA is not the school you want to choose unless that is the only choice you have. I've been trying to stay positive but now when I am about to finish it, I feel it's time to admit to myself that this has been a bad choice. If I could go back in time, I wouldn't even consider it. There are many reasons for that. Most of the instructors are simply not good, the staff is terrible, I am talking about the management. It is obvious that they don't know what they are doing and in some cases they've been treating us with no respect. Now they have opened a new base for training in Spain. When you hear Spain, it sounds great, but it is clear that they have made a mistake since that produced massive delays, people were asked to return back home, etc. Some of the key people have decided to leave the academy, so you get the point. It is just not so good. You may think ''Yes but they will give me a job at the end''... If I would be in the same situation again, I would choose modular for 40ke and simply apply for various jobs. Don't make a decision based on some unjustified fear that you will not get a job unless you choose BAA. It is just stupid. Good luck!

uberfly

23rd Nov 2018, 13:25

It is nice to read all positive/negative comments about BAA therefore prospect students can get a clear vision. The problem here is students can't find a person in charge to share their problems and frustrations. Once you start your training you are all left alone. There are many problems in BAA and students have difficulty to get explanation from first hand. Always some excuses from BAA side but never know the story behind therefore students talk within each other to understand the situation which leads often to a misinformation. There is lack of communication and transparency between school and students. In addition, I cant stop to mention there is significant lack of skills of office workers and management.

For instance, school can invest on new FFS but they can't hire enough number of Flight Instructors then training delay. Or another example of bad management; school acquired 4 new aircraft during this summer however all arrive at the end of the flying season therefore there was quite some delay due to lack of available A/C. Also, students send to new Spain base to start their training or finish the remaining part but without flying any hours they sent back to home for several weeks of waiting due to some reasons. The list can go longer.

It might worth to choose BAA if you are selected for Wizzair Scheme however for remaining 2 airline partner (where new admissions to third one is stopped) I would recommend you to try different training organization.

Barmn

27th Nov 2018, 14:58

Hi Guys, I'm a modular student ready for the MCC. I was wondering if someone can give me some feedback on their MCC courses being done on the 737CL?
They offer a course with 25h ground school and 20 hours SIM training. Anyone knows if it's good quality?
Greetings!

RomanK

27th Nov 2018, 20:51

Hi Barmn

I did it there and I wasn't happy. There were some lacks during the theory (for example abbreviations DODAR/NITS were put on PowerPoint presentation but not explained at all, hopefully I saw that in RYR topic here) and there is an important lack of breifing before sim (you do your 20 hours of SIM, of course, but you are not properly prepared for an efficient session).
After BAA I went to another school for JOC certificate and saw there how MCC and JOC courses should be organized
Caution, it is 737CL Full FIXED simulator in BAA, not FFS.

Barmn

28th Nov 2018, 11:12

Hi RomanK, thanks for the reply! So you would say it's not sufficient then. Where did you do your JOC course?

RomanK

28th Nov 2018, 18:55

Barmn, in SKY4you

Dukaster

28th Nov 2018, 20:09

Here is my feedback :
ATPL :
Probably the most standard part of the training. After all, you only need a classroom and an instructor. Nothing special.
There is an obvious large range of competency among the theory instructors. Some are efficient and will reply to all your questions. Others don't even know what they teach. But to be honest, the school reacted accordingly to the feedbacks and change of instructor if necessary.
Most of the work is done at home anyway, when you study on the atpl database for the CAA exams.

Now let's get straight to the main point, the flights: Run away from that school.
Run.
Away.

They have enrolled for those last 2 years too many students they are not able to train. Every 2 month comes a new class of students. The school has now around 240 guys to train.
Many of them are on « stand-by » because the school doesn't have enough instructors and planes to train the students. So many of them are waiting now at home.
There is currently a 5 months delay between the VFR phase, and the IFR phase.
And you will understand very soon why, if you read below.

The Fleet :
· 6x Tecnam P2002 currently (for VFR – 1st part)
· 4x Cessna 172 (for IFR – 2nd part)
· 1x Tecnam 2006 (for Multi-engine training, last part)

That fleet is clearly undersized for that school. Do the maths:
240 students. 11 planes.

Even small schools that nobody knows have more planes.
6 P2002 currently in Spain. Today only 2 are available.
Among the 4 C172, 2 are permanently on maintenance (1 is even new, but has already a Garmin fault. It's been on maintenance for weeks...).
Today there 2 C172 out of 4 are available... 2 C172 for the whole school...

Let’s compare with another big school:
4x C172 ==> FTE Jerez has 20 IFR aircrafts.
1x Tecnam 2006 (Multi-engine) ==> FTE Jerez has 6 Multi-Engine aircrafts –

Even Air Bartolini in Poland & F-Air in Czechia (2 other “tecnam eastern Europe schools”) own 2 P2006, and they are way smaller.
The school is very very greedy on investing in new airplanes.
Consequently: much much much waiting before you fly. And when you start flying, there will be a gap of 1 week, 10 days before the next flight.
Some students really rub elbows to get the slot instead of you. Some guys literally harassed the administration and the dispatcher to get the simulator/plane slots. It’s just clientelism, no planning. Such an attitude should be banned in a pilot school. That is not a quality we want to experience in a cockpit? Pushing the others under the train, to save his ass?

Instructors:
VFR instructors attribution is a lottery. You can get a serious one, or a young one who cares only about building up his hours and chat with his friends on his phone during flights. They all are just fresh out of their CPL.
Those poor FI are so low paid, that they resign and run away to see a greener grass somewhere else. They treat their FI like they treat their students: with no respect.

FNPT2 (IFR simulator):
Only one for the whole school.
Yes. You read correctly.
Only one old FNPT2 for all the students starting IFR.
Old, crappy. It sometimes reboots during an IFR session for no reason.
I told you. Greedy school.

Organisation :
The WORST point of BAA.
It's a total mess. Nobody knows what they do. They got no information. They don't communicate. They don't plan. They don't reply to serious emails, especially if it's an uncomfortable topic.
They created an email address connecting the students straight to the administration: don't bother, they choose to ignore if the topic is embarrassing.
There was absolutely no planning about the flights in Lithuania. You just go see the dispatcher, who barely knows about the next day. Come back at the end of the day to get some info for tomorrow.
The administration even told us: « you have to come directly to the briefing room to get information day by day »
Is it so hard to update a planning online of the upcoming flights?
They have apparently changed that in Spain, now there is a daily PDF about the flights for the day after.

But during 1 year, we got a message on whatsapp, sometimes in the evening at 10pm, that tomorrow morning at 6am you gotta be at the airport.
After the theory, they came to us with a very amateur excel file, about the upcoming months of our training.
No math about the number of FI & planes. They, as always, promised us that everything is gonna be okay, smooth and easy.
Bingo! Everything went wrong: lack of planes, lack of instructors, no back-up plans.

The last dirty trick they did to students: promising them to fly the multi on the 5th of November, so those guys went to Spain (paying transportation, finding an accommodation, etc at their own expenses of course)... When they arrived, they were said they would finally start the 8th. Then the 13th. Today is the 28th of November and they are still waiting.
Most of them came back home. 2 weeks in Spain for...nothing €€€
That’s a total of 2 months waiting for them.
Same story for the VFR students now, they arrived in Spain too early: flat rent, food, waiting… usual mess
They don’t even realize that students have no money.

The situation:
The current students at BAA are all delayed because of the school.
Students complain to the administration, but it’s useless. There’s not enough plane, and they don’t want to buy new ones. Period.
The school doesn't plan to buy new aircrafts, neither hire new instructors. So that mess will keep going on for 2019. Sorry about that.
They can put a lot of pressure on students to pay, but the global philosophy is clear: once you pay, they don't care about you. It’s all about marketing.

My opinion:
With that money, you can get a much better school. Especially now, the market is thriving, go for a quick modular course, save money and apply to airlines as soon as possible.

Do the maths. Minimum 9 months of living expenses, waiting to fly, etc. And I don’t even talk about the lack of organisation and respect to their students which will drive you crazy.
Their 24 months ATPL is 72,000€, compared to 40,000€ in a 15 months modular course.
Make the right choice.

Those « cadet » programs at BAA don't mean anything: you can get a job at each of them without being a cadet :
Smallplanet is falling apart.
Smartlynx deal is a huge scam. Their cadets had been betrayed by the airline during the training.
Wizzair is accessible from any random school, especially if you come from an Eastern Europe country. Wizzair also changed the conditions of employment during the training of their cadets…

Their marketing and communication is, in contrast, very professional: they make road shows all over Europe; they organize events for nice pictures of students with stripes on the shoulder watching airplanes, they are very active on all social networks...and ban any uncomfortable comments.

You see that picture on their main page of a blond nice girl and a male student, on their facebook events picture?
The girl is actually an administrative employee who put stripes, a tie and sunglasses for the photo-session. The guy was an atpl student with 0 flying hours. It's legal, sure. But it’s a metaphor of lies that school is expert in.

And I don't even talk about those YouTube videos; the actors showing an emergency procedure in an A320 don't even have their PPL or any commercial licence.

There are plenty of serious and competent schools out there. Have a look on German, Swedish, Spanish, French, Polish, Czech, Irish schools.
For 40,000€-60,000€ you can get a very serious training in a reasonable time, and being respected.

BAA is a very greedy and incompetent school.
I'm sorry the current students of that school, but there is no clear positive sign of evolution.

Barmn

28th Nov 2018, 22:25

Hi Dukaster,

Thanks for the extensive opinion about BAA. I wasn't anywhere close to thinking it would be this bad. I'm in contact with Simtech and will most likely follow an MCC there, they seem to have a good reputation, good reviews and are quite renowned in the aviation industry. After all, as you mentioned earlier, it's probably the most standard part of the training but having good instructors makes the training in the end.

Crowne

29th Nov 2018, 11:41

BAA received a new ME P2006 today.
Ex 5B-CLR ferried from Cannes to Lleida.

uberfly

29th Nov 2018, 13:39

@Dukaster thanks for sharing your opinion. All the things you mentioned is not more or not less, it is very precise evaluation and information.

Only thing I want to add is that they should have 11 Tecnam 2002 maybe only 6 of them actively used or ferried to Spain. As you mentioned currently 5 months delay in flight training which is expected to be even longer because school policy is to give a dates to students which can't be materialized, just to absorb the pressure on management. However, closer to that dates, students often receives a mail or sometimes they hear via via from other students that the given date is postponed even further date.

youngretired

29th Nov 2018, 14:32

Well, it is still entertaining to see ridiculous "oh btw they've added one more rubbish into their fleet bla bla bla" messages after @Dukaster's feedback.

Crowne

29th Nov 2018, 16:48

Well, it is still entertaining to see ridiculous "oh btw they've added one more rubbish into their fleet bla bla bla" messages after @Dukaster's feedback.

It was a fact not a positive vibe towards BAA, just a coincidence with the timing. I'm upset about this school as much as everyone here.

Crowne

29th Nov 2018, 17:40

tecnamflyer;

I mentioned nowhere that it was solving something. I just stated what I saw on eurocontrol today. I would be the happiest if it was solving something. We're all in the same basket !

FloresM320

29th Nov 2018, 20:37

I agree with Dukaster. The "managers" (mainly training but also sales) provide very bad support. They will most certainly always reply with "I don't know". The funny thing is that they apparently have a "2h" policy by which they mean that they have to send you an email back within 2 hours. Not necessarily with a solution but at least so that you know they have received it. I can say that this 2h policy is 2 weeks in reality, if you are lucky.

The training managers focus more on posting pictures and videos from the office on facebook and instagram instead of trying to solve problems which students have. This is mainly because people with 0 or close to 0 experience in aviation and organization are assigned to such positions. Best example is when a girl from the front desk got promoted to a training manager (a training manager of a flight school).... Such things happen only in BAA..... I mean maybe she is a nice person, but totally not for such position considering the fact that she doesn't know to say hello when you enter the office and starts laughing in your face as soon as you ask more than 1 question.

Question for the Dukster:

Could you please explain more what do you mean by " Wizzair also changed the conditions of employment during the training of their cadets… "?

Thanks

av8tor396

29th Nov 2018, 22:03

Anyone joining the academy after everyone hear told you the story will have no right to complain, you are all receiving the warnings about the truth of this school.
Not every potential student is aware of this forum. Most people get suckered in because of BAAs Facebook marketing.
I would strongly suggest to voice your opinion under the recommendation/review section of their Facebook page. Even if it is under an “assumed” name.

TheBat

1st Dec 2018, 16:15

Classic BAA. Doesn't surprise me at all! But as av8tor396 said, not every wannabe reads this forum. Very good suggestion mate!

Duchess_Driver

2nd Dec 2018, 10:58

What’s the point of moving all the aircraft to Spain when (a) operations are still continuing in LT and (b) there are not enough instructors to fly them. Yes the 2006 arrived and another is planned - but see (b) above!

You cannot build anything on shaky foundations and at the moment BAA management are working to resolve the issues. Question would be is have they identified all those issues yet?

I understand and the frustration felt by students awaiting training progress but BAA Lleida Operations are very new and will require some time to bed in and get things right. Tremendous potential with some good staff and instructors - give it and them time to realise that potential.

uberfly

2nd Dec 2018, 15:12

@Duchess_Driver

I understand of your position however students are not the experimental object to make potential of staff to come out. Students pay money, quite big money therefore they have right to complain. Imagine you buy a bad product from a store what would you do next day? Bring that product and either refund it or get the better one. BAA sold the bad product to students and continue to do it. Finally frustration is not only about Spain but regarding to whole operation.

About (a) there is no operation in LT especially VFR during winter season and this is minimum of 4 months. (b) BAA must hire a instructor to fly them. They could spend couple of hundred thousand EUROS for marketing, millions on FFS however they cant spend any single cent on instructors which are keystone of the flight training.

Dukaster

3rd Dec 2018, 11:20

The training managers focus more on posting pictures and videos from the office on facebook and instagram instead of trying to solve problems which students have. This is mainly because people with 0 or close to 0 experience in aviation and organization are assigned to such positions. Best example is when a girl from the front desk got promoted to a training manager (a training manager of a flight school).... Such things happen only in BAA..... I mean maybe she is a nice person, but totally not for such position considering the fact that she doesn't know to say hello when you enter the office and starts laughing in your face as soon as you ask more than 1 question.

Those pretty chicks working at the administration are around 25 years-old, no experience, and as you said, spend much time to party in their office, take instagram stories, facebook posts. There is a pool at their floor, they can enjoy their working time, when you wait at home to fly...
The fastest way to contact is to chat with them on facebook. Sounds very professional...
There are many s*x stories between the administration girls and the students.
What kind of serious school does that?

Question for the Dukster:
Could you please explain more what do you mean by " Wizzair also changed the conditions of employment during the training of their cadets… "?
Thanks
Wizzair increased the bond from 3 to 4 years.
If you leave before, you have to pay 35.000€ minus what has been taken from your salary.
If you stay 4 years, they transfer to you 10.000€.
You can easily guess that western guys will want to move out before the 4 years so the Type Rating would cost 35.000€.

BAATraining

4th Dec 2018, 14:30

dpd320

4th Dec 2018, 19:35

There are some things that I can’t still believe and understand.

First: Maybe instead of apologize to us, try to think in advance. You had more than one year to calculate how many aircraft would be needed in order to provide every single student smoothe, fluent, efficient, effective and proper training. Was it so hard to calculate that 4 C172 would be too few for 40 and even more students simultaneously? Well, aparently everyone can see that this basic maths was too hard for you. Furthermore, the number of students is growing month by month. You need to offer something in return, not only sitting and checking the income.

Second: You wrote that you are hiring instructors for upcoming year (december, January, february). Do you know maybe where have previous instructors gone? If you don’t, then I’ll enlighten your mind: they have just quit their job. If you don’t know why they have done that, then let me explain you why: deteriorated working conditions. The salary has decreased. Instead of trying to keep them in company by increasing salaries a bit, you have just let them go. Now, because of your greed, we as the students are struggling with lack of instructors, which equals to lack of flying and sending home the students that were supposed to start flying in Spain. Another problem is that you don’t even help your own employees in Spain finding any flat etc. So please tell me how is that possible in such „honoured” company with so many positive opinions? Allegedly, you are the best flight academy right after Lufthansa. That ranking made by your parent company explains everything.

Among us, the students, there are some guys that were leading and are still leading their own business and trust me, if you don’t have anyone that could organize that massive mess at the management department, then just ask some of us. We will find a solution, it is not hard, you just need to have good ability of logical thinking in advance. I can’t find that feature among your management workers. You need to keep in mind that we are not only the cash provider. We are the customers, we expect that goods, that you’ll sell us, will be good. And now you are selling us nothing more than empty promises. The only thing we can be sure is DELAY and the answer „we don’t know’’. When it comes to pay next instalments, we receive email everyday, but when we expect some answer to our questions from you, you have a problem to give us logical reply.

Dear BAA, we are not stupid, we know that very bad things happen inside the school, we speak with instructors, other students and so on. So please stop blurring our eyes. I don’t think that your are providing us efficient training. More than 4 months break at our initial stage of flying, I don’t think it’s good.

„big enough to offer large capabilities, close enough for personal care” that’s the slogan at the bottom of every page of your notebooks, that you are giving to students. Well, don’t you think that it’s time to change that slogan? You are not big enough to offer large capabilities AT ALL.

I know that the IFR student pilots in Spain have still less that 20 hours each, even though there are just few of them. The rest is sitting at home and waiting till the first group will finish. BAA, why did they do barely 20 hours in more that 2 months? Can we expect any answer from you?

Students and instructors are complaining a lot about that school and don’t recommend it to anyone. That means that the problem lies within the company.

So to sum up, instead of hiring hundreds of workers for useless stuff, maybe it’s time to focus more on students, who provide you huge income and instructors, that will ensure you effective students rotation. Otherwise I can’t see any reasonable solution. You’ll go down one day thanks to your own greed. So far I can honestly say, I wouldn't recommend anyone even to think about joining that school

Dukaster

4th Dec 2018, 20:42

Well well well...
Look who's going out of the wood when some negative feedbacks pop up.

The marketing & communications department is really efficient, as I wrote in my post ;)))
Here you can't ban me, huh?! ;)
To all BAA Training current and future pilots,
Reacting to the current situation at our Ab Initio school, we apologize for inconveniences that we have caused you.
The delays started in summer 2017, 16 months ago.

At that time, the VFR season was not finished for many of your students, some of them barely did 30 hours in 4 months.
More than half of the students didn't finish the VFR in 4 months.
As a total, the VFR part was done in 6 months...80 hours (13 hours per month !).
You are not a professional flying school, you are an amateur flying club.

So it's not about "the current situation", it's a very long term situation that you chose to ignore.
Today, you suffer the consequences
...or not. You'll get your salary anyway.

With the growing student number at our Ab Initio school, we have added 4 additional aircraft to our fleet and a flight base in Spain in order to extend our training capabilities. Nevertheless the number of force majeure situations that appeared during few past months left us with struggles to replan flight training schedule accordingly. We acknowledge facing longer delays of flight training than initially planned for approximately 14% of our current students.
I'm going to make a translation here for the readers who are not insiders or former students of BAA :
- "The growing number of students" started in winter 2016-2017, 2 years ago. It's not a new phenomenon. It's been 2 years !
In 2016, you took one class of 10ish people in October, 10ish people in december, in 2017 25 people in february, and so on...without increasing the fleet, and now you are surprisingly in a panic situation?
You must be kidding.

- "Force majeur situations" are about extreme weather, unexpected closure of the airport, etc... Not about a lack of airplanes because the school decided to save money on the fleet!
Even if there is a crash, you were so greedy that you didn't have any enough back-up planes, like all any schools have.

- 14% is a lie. Students of all stages are delayed.
The multi-engine students are waiting for 2 months so far, and they have to wait until january to finish their flight training, they are not even sure to make it before the end of the contract. Their training will finish 24 months after starting. In other schools, it takes 16 months.
The IFR students are sent home until minimum end of February (some of them finished VFR in...September!!)
The VFR students don't fly as planned. Of course, there's half of the VFR fleet available. Fog appears in Lleida, winter begins.

It's a huge mess. You should tell the truth to your students and the people out there.

We are:

undergoing the selection processes for multi-engine and single-engine IRF and VFR instructors to join our team in December, January and February
closing a purchase process for an additional Cessna 172 to join our fleet as we speak
negotiating the purchase for one more Cessna 172 to be added in spring

You didn't even plan how many instructors available you will have in the school for the upcoming months?
You can't make your work and study how many aircrafts you can fly, how many students you must train, how many instructors per students?
Basic calculations... you are not even able to do them. Remember your poor excel file you showed in spring, that was a total lie.

Same story as in 2017. You promised changes, you promised a bigger fleet, you promised a smooth training.
Nothing of those happened.

You shouldn't buy one more Cessna. You should double or triple your fleet !!!
How come CTC has 43 C172 and you have 6 poor flying C172 ???
FTE has 20 IFR Warriors. You have 6 IFR planes available.
Look how the students are stuck and desperate to fly !!

You really live on another planet.

ready to transfer Tecnam 2006: as soon as the weather will allow the aircraft will depart from Vilnius to Lleida

Then how do you explain that the next group starting the multi-engine is planned for the 7th of January?
The multi is just not ready. And you have no idea when it will be for practical flying in Spain.

I just checked, Air Bartolini has 3 P2006. You have 1 and maybe soon 2. And that school is way smaller than you.
CTC has 17 multi-engines ! You have 1 and maybe soon 2.
European Flight Training has 14 ! You have 1 and maybe soon 2.
Should I continue?

The whole BAA Training Ab Initio team is putting their utmost priority and daily efforts not only to make changes but also communicate openly with our students through this process.
The basic organisation is not even performed.

I should also add that the school (which includes the flights) closes 2 weeks for holidays.
Absolutely all the flying students are enduring a huge delay, BAA might not even be able to finish the students before the end of the student contracts.... but BAA closes 2 weeks for Christmas !
Go work in a regular company, you will get back to work the 2nd of January, and some people work during the christmas week.

Force majeure you said ? The delays are big? THEN GO WORK DURING HOLIDAYS !

Your team just plays pool and make social network pictures. All your system is about making Youtube videos by beginner students in a 737, roadshows, events for promotion of your school. The team seems to realise only now that the mess is huge.
Seriously?
You should fire all the cylinders now, make simple calculations about the number of airplanes/students/FI, make a plan, buy planes, hire enough FI and pay them properly, so as they don't escape like they all do.

Do.
Your.
Job.

Dukaster

5th Dec 2018, 08:39

Actually the post by "BAATraining" is just a copy-paste of the mail the students received yesterday.

You can't even explain yourself on a students & pilots forum.

You are just amateurs.
An amateur school which has no idea how to run a flight school.

tecnamflyer

5th Dec 2018, 13:05

I heard of many delays at this academy

uberfly

5th Dec 2018, 13:58

@tecnamflyer

I just come to a conclusion about these numbers below.

2017 Feb groups have experienced delays of around 4/5 months.
- 2017 June group has experienced delays of about 6/7 months (are people in that class who finished VFR in June 2018 now have been told their IFR will be January 2019).
- 2017 September group has delays again of 6 months minimum (likely to increase because the current progress of IFR students ahead of them in Spain is very slow).
- 2017 October group has delays of about 7/8 months (People in this class finished VFR in September and latest news is they will not go to Spain at all, but start IFR in March/April back in Lithuania)

Looking from financial side of the window;

Considering the delay of 6 months ATPL integrated can be completed in any other training organization in around 16-18 months. Most of the students choose BAA because hoping to receive OK-ish training at reasonable price and plus airline partners (where I want to mention one more time expect Wizzair, rest of the airline partners are just make no sense to choose BAA) . However, if one finished training 6 months earlier, during this 6 months roughly inexperienced pilot can earn around 3k net. In addition, life expenses in that wasted time lets say on average 800 Euros in Lithuania -if you live somewhere this could of course get higher-. Therefore (6*3000) + (6*800) = 22.800 Euros. In my opinion this is the money students lost due to delays and all these happenings. Simply adding onto training cost; 72K +23K= 95K anyone considering to choose BAA should think about these numbers and make decision accordingly. Close to that amount you can even have training including accommodation and 3 course meal provided in some schools.

At the end of the day, simple student' training total cost, including all the life expenses will be as much as top notch schools such as CAE, L3 or FTE. BAA is just a random school. Without Wizzair partnership they wouldn't enroll more than 30-35 independent students per year.

av8tor396

5th Dec 2018, 15:23

To all BAA Training current and future pilots,

Reacting to the current situation at our Ab Initio school, we apologize for inconveniences that we have caused you.

With the growing student number at our Ab Initio school, we have added 4 additional aircraft to our fleet and a flight base in Spain in order to extend our training capabilities. Nevertheless the number of force majeure situations that appeared during few past months left us with struggles to replan flight training schedule accordingly.

Do you even know what force majeure means?!? You have been planning a move to Spain for over a year. OVER A YEAR! And after a major flop of operation in Spain for few months, you sent students back, ended up short of instructors and airplanes. Thats not force majeure, that is a JOKE OF OPERATION with a BAD MANAGEMENT.

We acknowledge facing longer delays of flight training than initially planned for approximately 14% of our current students.

Again, thats a lie. More than half of your students are effected. That is not 14%. Maybe you should take that compass test to improve your math.

Understanding the seriousness of the issue we have done a set of steps in order to change the situation and get back to the normal flight training schedule.

We are:

undergoing the selection processes for multi-engine and single-engine IRF and VFR instructors to join our team in December, January and February

Have you ever stopped to think why you are ending up placing an add for new instructors every month on Aviation websites? Do you even for one minute have stopped to think as to why no instructor ever stays for more than few months?

closing a purchase process for an additional Cessna 172 to join our fleet as we speak
negotiating the purchase for one more Cessna 172 to be added in spring

So, you had over a year to think about the Spanish operation, meanwhile enrolling more students but you are now almost NEGOTIATING or CLOSING A DEAL to purchase 2 Cessna 172s? Well whoop tee do to anyone who is dumb enough to actually feel happy about this (fake?) news

The whole BAA Training Ab Initio team is putting their utmost priority and daily efforts not only to make changes but also communicate openly with our students through this process.
You communicate until you receive money. As soon as there is any problem, your solution to any problem is to stop communication or just play dumb.

In my opinion, you are probably THE worst institution in aviation history.

Dukaster

5th Dec 2018, 16:25

Before those so-called "cadet programs", that school was a random unknown school.
It was like a vacation club, rich kids driving Porsche Cayenne or the last BMW 6, quiet heaven where the pressure didn't exist.
Things have changed, the tills are full, but the holiday camp organisation remains the same.

Party is over. Go back to work!

I don't know what the Airlines think about getting students 6 months after the promized time.
Any Airline would be very upset to get their cadets with such a delay.
In the long term, those airlines would be totally right to break the contract with BAA, as the school is not even able to provide their new f/o in a reasonable time.
So be extremely careful about that school. Who knows what can happen soon...

Warlock1

5th Dec 2018, 17:13

To all BAA Training current and future pilots,

Instead of going back to your present students to offer solutions or to get their opinion about possible future planning alternatives, you have just registered a new account here today to post your message on an open forum.
Even this act alone shows that your objective is to do some marketing towards 'future potential pilots'.
You people are incompetent in every aspect of aviation business.

Dukaster

5th Dec 2018, 17:57

Students are so desperate that they created a Facebook group to make fun of the school.
Go check it out, type Baltic Aviation Academy memes on Facebook you'll have some fun for the evening

disgruntledcat22

5th Dec 2018, 21:22

Many things that are going down at BAA are basically ripped straight out of the Soviet playbooks: misinformation, keeping people in the dark, exerting psychological pressure and a clear lack of anything that could somehow be construed as a "customer friendly mentality" (oh, wait, no, the people shelling out tens of thousands of euros to attend a private flight school are not "customers" apparently...).
Mix all of this goodness with a fresh dose of newly imported capitalist greed and you've got one hell of a combination.

I could write an entire book about all the things there that it defies the apparent fact that this is a training organization operating under an EASA license. Clearly someone, somewhere, made a terrible mistake or ten.
Of course, many of their transgressions can surely be forgiven. Clearly they would pass any and all audits that might be conducted in the future.
The barely competent ground school instructors, some of whom speak English at a level that is far removed from even ICAO 4 and mostly play YouTube videos because "this subject is quite complicated"? Forgiven.
Making up nonsensical rules about "conduct at school" and exerting psychological pressure on the student body wherever possible? Forgiven.
Cutting corners to the absolute maximum extent possible ("Oh, you will have to pay for those epaulettes!"), singling out malcontents and trying to milk the current flood of students as much as possible before that house of cards they have created for themselves inevitably collapses? Forgiven?

Things are bad, there is no sugar-coating it. The idea to move operations to Lleida over the winter was so poorly thought through that it is hard to imagine what kind of process they must have followed as far as decision-making is concerned.

Fact is: winter weather in Lleida is terrible. The current maintenance solution is untenable. Operational conduct and planning are okay at the best of times and disastrous at the worst. The fog is all-encompassing and barely any flying will happen.

Add to that the fact that it is not a nice place to stay. Pretty much no one speaks English, few people are willing to rent to foreigners and especially not on short notice.

It goes without saying that training there is a major expense for many students with no help whatsoever provided by BAA. Let's not forget that all current students signed contracts for training in Lithuania. Nowhere does it mention having to move countries again. For many, this has been a giant hassle after having brought all of their ducks in a row in Lithuania, particularly for non-Europeans (think of residency, permits, etc.).

The biggest joke was that, though rumors had existed that a move to Spain was in the cards, concrete information was withheld for AS LONG AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE. Why did they do this? What did they stand to gain from leaving people in the dark and preventing them from preparing a move to the other end of Europe? We shall never know.

Competent instructors have been leaving in droves. No wonder, they are just as shafted as the student body, if not worse. BAA provides little support to them, in addition to simply appalling working conditions and laughable remuneration. Their efforts to replace these instructors will do nothing but attract the dregs of the industry. Surely another point in favour of training quality and flight safety.

It seems that every step of the way the decisions they make only serve to shoot themselves in the foot with additional bullets. When profits skyrocketed due to influx of students, it would have been prudent to increase instructor remuneration to a level that resembles a living wage. It would have been prudent to invest in additional FNPTs in Vilnius, not simulators in Vietnam. It would have been most prudent to invest in more, desperately needed aircraft (and potentially aircraft that are actually suitable for dual seat training operations and not constantly bordering on or exceeding MTOW).

And, finally, it would have been prudent to select a base for winter operations after doing PROPER RESEARCH into the operating conditions there (it's also nice that aircraft currently cannot be maintained on site but have to be ferried to SABADELL) and not to select a base where the fog is famous enough to warrant status as a literal tourist attraction, though in all honesty, a winter base may not even have been necessary, if proper amounts of aircraft were available in Kaunas and training was scheduled in a more sensible manner in the first place...as such, the Lleida "expedition" resembles the era of imperialism leading up to WW1: it is BAA's "Place in the Sun" - or rather "Place in the Fog".

Let's not get into the, really quite irrelevant, topic of maintenance and safety, shall we? After all, this is clearly not a safety-critical industry...been there, done that. We even have our very own crash, news coverage and all. Isn't that lovely?

I wish that one day one of the higher-ups will blow the whistle on this whole outfit and release an autobiography laying out this charade in full detail. It could serve as study material for everyone from economists to social scientists - and sadly as cautionary tale for the entire aviation industry.

All this is just scratching the tip of an absolutely immense underwater iceberg of lies and incompetence. If you've not already pledged your soul and parent's savings to this band of merry fools, I advise you to stay as far away as possible. Though, do visit Lithuania if you get the chance, it truly is a magical place when you're not spending it at Dariaus ir Gireno gatvé.

Fibonachi

5th Dec 2018, 21:44

I wonder if the Wizz Air is familiar with the situation in the school. I am certain that BAA didn't inform them. "Hey WizzAir, we are completely loosing control of the training process of your future pilots." What worries me is how Wizz will react when they see how terrible the situation in the school is. Will they just give up on us? It's not like BAA is the only school with the cadet program.

From the beginning of the ground school the support from the training managers was terrible or let me say 0. They present us with their Baby Dolls with 0 knowledge and think we will be fine with a constant "I don't know". I wonder if they even have interviews for employment in BAA or are the only requirements to be a female and have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

I remember last December they gave us this fabulous schedule saying IFR will take 1 month. HAHAHAHAHA..... We asked the "I don't know" girl, (you can guess who it is) if it is a mistake in the chart and she said "No, IFR goes fast, It's not that many hours".....

She and every other BAA employee have to understand that we are doing them the favor by going to this school, not the opposite way. We the students are the clients who are paying a large amount of money, and by this paying their salaries. So they should stop treating us like we are in a public school and should stop rolling eyes when we ask questions.

I am not even going to mention how each sales manager imposes different contract rules to their students. Basically some students have 1 year to pay for the training others have more, others have less.
I am also not going to mention how after complaining about this chaos, the Ab Initio director told me to go to another school if I don't like it here. Very "professional" dude who aside of being famous for "knowing everything" actually tried to make a positive difference but wasn't liked by any of Ab Initio staff because he actually expected them to work and earn their salary. Not sit in the office and post instagram stories...

It shouldn't be mentioned as well that instructors threw one another under the bus this past flying season. Making reports about one another and so on. Also they are instructed by BAA to have 30min turnaround between each flight with a student. So you can imagine how the briefings and debriefings looked like. Sadly for most of the instructors they were nonexistent.
Only few brave instructors decided to actually teach their students in a proper way!

Some of the guys made it to the final check in the VFR stage without knowing that there is an entry procedure for an Aerodrome they have flown to many times in their 80h vfr training. This is not the mistake of student but the instructor who let him fly in the first place. But this is what happens when you have instructors who sleep, play games and talk on the phones, and this is not only during lesson flights but also check flights! Yes check flights! Then again you have students who prefer these kind of instructors......

I personalty told 7 people who were considering BAA to run away without looking back. That's 7x72k=504 k... Potentially half a mil EUR. Surely I am not the only one who is giving this advice. Maybe this way they will actually understand that the way they treat us will have consequences.

comeflywithus

7th Dec 2018, 13:39

This feedback is mostly for the people who are thinking to join this organization, for us who are already there it won't solve any problem or give us any money back. So if you are one of the potential ,,future pilots" please read it carefully.

First of all, at the beginning you will get a beautiful impression from THE SALES DEPARTMENT. The one and only thing which they know how to do is marketing and telling you fairytales - but this fairytale is not from the Disney and unfortunately doesn't have happy ending.

They will give you all the information for joining and assessment process plus the payment which is the crucial part for them.

Facilities are beautiful as Instagram and Facebook pictures, but thats it. Don't expect nothing else.
Even the contract is written only for them not for you! (You have to, You must, but BAA has any obligations towards you)

So if you are considering also another school which is more expensive - maybe at the end its the same price. (compared to L3 academy) Because not all things which look cheap at the beginning are cheap at the end. Be ready, you will have to pay for accommodation and travel expenses - which is not a big deal, unless you have to move 3 times in a year and nobody is willing to rent apartment for less then year. (bye bye deposits ).

Regarding traveling, most of the time you get the final information in a good case one week before the flight so you can imagine also the price for the flight ticket.

Now more about the quality. I would say it with one sentence - One day you are working at the front desk and the next day you are in management.
Don't expect any proactive approach from management unless it's regarding your payments.

I just wonder how the airlines signed the contract with this organization, maybe they used also the beautiful PowerPoint presentations for them as well and didn't show them the truth.

I am also happy for the instructors, who are so brave and still providing perfect service although they are treated as a ****. Big respect for them but majority of them already left. I think it's very common in this facility to be arrogant to get a job in a management and the worst thing, the will never admit - they made a mistake. Most of the time they will make you to look like a dumb person who is unable to count 1 to 10. Maybe one day we will post also Name and Shame to know who you should avoid in your future and give them the harder feedback!

I think majority of the things regarding the number of aircrafts and schedule have been posted here before, but I just want to raise my voice and tell you - IT IS ALL THE TRUTH. Maybe this kind of feedback will bring this organization back to reality and give them wake up call.

For the rest of the guys and girls who finally woke up from #feelingblessed #futurpilot #pilottobe #pilotlife good luck and stay strong, although with the last money we have.
And if you find those few selected pilots from this organization don't believe everything what is written on ,,official" social medias.

Oh and also something which you get for your money or lets say for ,,free."

Demotivation and Frustration

av8tor396

10th Dec 2018, 06:56

GreenYoda;

They are planning to address the students tomorrow with the usual “all is good. social media posts are lies. we are buying 200 more planes and hiring 500 instructors” type of speeches. Maybe all the hidden issues should be spoken then?!?[/left]

hid3

11th Dec 2018, 11:33

Wow, that has been some shocking read for me.. I suspected there might be some internal mess but I didn't think it was _that_ bad! Good thing that I didn't pull the trigger to pick up studies at BAA, although it was just minutes before making the positive decision (school being just a few km from my home is quite convenient thing...). Thanks guys for sharing the reality from the inside!

Having said that, maybe someone could give some reference to a decent flight school in Poland (as metnioned above)? Anything will work - name of the school, their site, etc...

Thanks!

gerpols

11th Dec 2018, 12:20

Dear Ladies & Gents,
Sorry to read all this negative news concerning BAA.
There is one thing I would like to say.
I got hired by BAA as a flight instructor 2 months ago. I went to Lleida in November, but unfortunately due to unforeseen problems back home, I had to put in my resignation.
I only stayed in Lleida for 5 days. What I can say is that the salary offered by BAA was above aviation flight instructor standards. I was making half of what BAA offered when I was with L3 in Portugal.
I would also like to mention that BAA HR Office treated me very well, when I had to go back home again after such a short period. So no complaints there either.
Just my 2 cents....
I wish all BAA students lots of luck with their future training !
Happy holidays to everyone !

Your not much, if you ain`t Dutch ! ;)

Idontlikeusername

11th Dec 2018, 16:46

Guys is the situation so bad?
Do you know what happened to the cadet who they finished their traing? At least have they been hired?

mikael777uae

11th Dec 2018, 19:24

I do subscribe to all above complaints! But literally all. The greed and careless is of a big size in BAA.

There are some great instructors and people in management but the top, the one taking decisions are blinded by success and new kids coming just for the Wizz there.

They are so unprofessional to talk 30’ at the graduation that they both many new SIM-s for TR(millions of €) but they do not have 100k for a FNPT. People waiting for 4 months at home doing nothing because of it, it’s just a shame.

I’ll not repeat all that said above as I just subscribed to every word, I’ll just try to make a conclusion: BAA, you know that you messed up things, fix it!!! don’t just promise small things, COMPENSATE your students with some tickets home (not to Vilnius as it makes no sense) but HOME, because they have to travel home for waiting. Cover their expenses for the accommodation! You will loose a bit of money but you will show for real that you take responsibility for what you are doing.

Unfortunately for for now I have to advise all my friends and other wannabees to go somewhere else and to not together tricked even by cadet programs as it turns to be worse and more expensive than having a fast and cheap modular program and then enjoy a few month with your beloved ones or on an island with the saved money and do the application for the airline.

For the colleagues, try to stay positive and don’t forget that we are a power if we’re together! If they continue to bullsh!t us this way or God forbid we exceed contractual 2y then we ALL go friendly to court! and not just do bla bla in here. Not to say I'm sorry to that fools that don’t even have brains to see what’s going on and to write a line here so that sick bunch of people wake up and take the situation in control.

SantaSanta

11th Dec 2018, 19:32

TO THE GUYS THAT ARE IN SPAIN AT THE MOMENT

I am hearing many different stories about the current situation. I would be grateful if you could inform me about the following:

- How is the VFR part unfolding? How many times or hours do you guys fly? How many planes are in use?

What is the current state of these planes? Are they safe to fly at least? Are there enough flight instructors at the moment? How is the quality of these flight instructors? Is there a good communication between instructors and students? Are (de) briefings done properly? How is the atmosphere?

- How is the IFR part going? How long are the current delays for the FNTP? What about the Cessnas? How many are in use at the moment and in what state are they? Are there enough IFR instructors?

- What is the communication of BAA to you guys concerning this situation? What have they been telling since October? Are there any guys who did a part in Lithuania? How was the situation there concerning the above?

- For guys that are in the last stages of the training, how many months have you been in training? Are you completing the training within the terms stipulated in your contract? Are you satisfied with the flight training you had so far?

Do you personally know any cadets or students that graduated and that are actually working and being successful in their position?

- Do you guys have the impression that things are improving (maybe now, after the complaints on this forum)? Do you guys see any concrete measures being taken by BAA to resolve the situation?

Thank you very much for your objective reply!

A worried BAA student

Dukaster

11th Dec 2018, 20:01

@Idontlikeusername : to make it short => yes, the situation is that bad.

About the recruitment, it depends on airlines:

Some Wizzair cadets finished in July, they are already F/O. They belonged to the very first group, which didn't experience the problems of fleet, FI, management etc
Others are delayed because the lithuanian CAA is making troubles.

Only one Smartlynx cadet is doing his Type Rating now.

But most of them are still waiting to finish their training.
As a reminder, they were planned to start initally their type rating in July and September.
We are in december, and most of them are either waiting for their licences, or waiting for the Multi-Engine + MCC....

The group which finished VFR is now delayed to April.
Better and better. Bravo BAA for your counter-performance at any stage of the training :)

Avion Express cadets started much later. They are barely starting VFR.
Small Planet cadets are in an embarrassing situation, they don't belong to any airline anymore (Small planet went bankrupt).

Keep away from that chaos.
There are so many reliable schools out there.

av8tor396

12th Dec 2018, 06:01

Hey av8tor, any feedback from this students meeting ?
Nothing happened!

Idontlikeusername

13th Dec 2018, 10:48

Do you also know what happenef to the guys who were Cadets with Small Planet now that the company has failed?
Did they offer to them an alternative solution or have they just been left on their own?

cocoacompadre

13th Dec 2018, 13:15

I have noticed in the previous few days a lot of activity on here regarding BAA Training, mainly from fellow colleagues at the school unhappy with the situation there. I have experenced the school for a while now and believe I can give good insight into how things are ……‘falling apart’.

To start with the things that are good with BAA…..

- The buildings in Vilnius are nice, clean and modern
- There is a foosball table and water machines
- The Head of Ground school (Peter) is one of the nicest people you will meet

As you can see, BAA have all the important aspects of running a flight school covered :D, so lets talk about things which are not so good.

- Instructors - I cannot say the same about every instructor but there are a large number of theoretical instructors who are not very good at what they teach or have very little experience in what they teach. BAA do not care, they pay instructors very little and refuse to get good permanent instructors as they come with additional cost. Do they care that the instructor cannot speak English, NO. Do they care that most of the instructors that come from Soviet backgrounds teach their old and inefficient methods, NO (I think all students know who I am meaning) We had one instructor who was ‘fired’ for being so bad (although he reappeared like some sort of magic trick as a flight instructor 6 months later), I believe another instructor was fired for being an alcoholic (something which I sympathise with, as I also need a lot of alcohol when dealing with BAA)

- Organisation & Planning – There is none, although according to management “this is how it will be in you’re airline jobs” a phrase all students have heard. Can you imagine it, getting told you are flying to Los Angeles, 7 hours before departure when you’re a captain at Lufthansa. According to BAA, this is how it is.:= There were days during our ground school, where we finished at 10PM and started at 7:30AM the next morning as they had to split the entire ground school students into Day (7 - 2:30) and Evening (3 - 10) classes as they didn’t have enough classrooms to satisfy their overcapacity. We also had 1.5 days to learn Flight Operations, but that did not matter as BAA gave us our school test based entirely on the introduction chapter of Ops (I think points may have been given for spelling our name correctly as nobody failed). Time off for CAA, in 9 months of groundschool, we had 1 week off, after our first 3 subjects. This meant a lot of other subjects were missed when students had to take additional time off for CAA. I missed an entire topic on Flight Planning, although taking CAA exams, wasn’t a good enough reason for missing school according to management. We were offered another week off between 22ndDecember – 4thJanuary. Offered a week off by BAA management, in time designated for our Christmas holidays. Merry Christmas, here are you´re presents and you can open them after you’ve gone to your Meteorology exam. Not that it mattered anyway as the CAA system was down for the entire Christmas period meaning anyone who did stay, couldn’t go to their exams.:ugh:

- Flying Season - Spain base has been a total disaster for BAA so far. Flight Instructors are leaving almost instantly. IFR aircraft took nearly 5 weeks longer than planned to arrive, leaving many students just wasting money away. Spain was almost sold to everybody as though it was package holiday, all-inclusive to Spain…Sun, Sea, Good Weather all year round with nice beaches and that BAA was doing everyone a favour by sending people down there. What BAA failed to mention is that they chose Lleida as a base. A city in the Pyrenees where the most famous tourist attraction in the city, is fog. Literally permanent fog for the whole of winter, so it was a great idea to have a winter base for VFR and IFR where no one can actually fly. That will keep costs down. Although they left it until the last possible second to tell everyone where the winter base would be, keeping it a secret like it was early Christmas present to everybody. This meant that everyone had very little time to organise themselves down in Spain. I believe the situation for short-term renting in Spain is nothing short of a joke, with the school offering ZERO support. However they will tell you that living costs and standards are comparable to Lithuania. I can assure all, as a Spaniard, living costs are not on the same scale as Vilnius. But did BAA look into these things, well they will tell you they did. Rumours are they are closing Spain base and moving operations back to Lithuania in the Spring. Good going BAA.

- Aircraft – “We have invested in new VFR and IFR aircraft”. Yes, the old age BAA famous sentence is still going strong, along with 'we don't know', I think this was one of the things I heard management say the most and this was drilled into us weekly. People are still yet to see this investment. 1 LEASED washing machine with wings from Cyprus, does not count as serious investment into aircraft. Other aircraft are dangers, with seriously corroding structures, broken instruments and unreliable systems. It is a well known that there were a few moderately serious accidents in the last couple of years, but BAA will tell you that these were unforeseen and Force Majeure. Force Majeure excuses can only go on for so long, the school has had in some instances over a year and a half to put there aircraft problems right. Now for an even better tale, when the current aircraft (what's left of them) are flying in Spain, do they do the maintenance on base at Lleida...Of course not, this would be to common sensical for BAA, No they ferry the aircraft to and from Sabadell, a 250km round trip. :ok:

- Customer Service – BAA treat you as though you are about to buy a 30.000 euro Rolex from them, right up until the moment you give them you’re money and are a student. Then it turns from being the Rolex shop, to a Gulag. There is no customer service, no respect and any ideas you may have to help are simply put down with the thought ‘he’s just a student, we’re managers’ Yes ladies and gentlemen, it is ran as though managers are part of the Politburo. Soviet style aristocracy, which probably explains why BAA are in so much deep water, they’re currently drowning. Once they have, your money, its game over. You’re tied into a contract which is very shady, blames the customer for all problems, charges you 60% of the full course fee if you die….you get the picture.

Now all of these little things pale into insignificance when compared to the BIGGEST problem of all at BAA. A problem which has ultimately caused the mess to students and their wallets in the last 2 years. A problem which led to instructors resigning, poor organisation, poor standards, no customer service, no aircraft, problems in Spain. Ladies and Gentlemen I present to you BAA Senior Management.

In the words of their own employees, ‘they have managers for everything but one thing they don’t have a manager for, is common sense’. Senior Management are young…very young and lack simple management fundamentals. The Chief Operating Officer must only be 5 years older than me at most. I left High School 3 years ago. But with youth and ambition comes a negative aspect. GREED and oh yes, BAA are certainly guilty of it. They are way over capacity at the moment with no signs of slowing down, there wasn’t enough aircraft for people back when I started in 2016. Apparently the student numbers have doubled now, and there are even less aircraft. But let’s keep bringing people through the front door with their money, without reinvesting it in areas that are in desperate need for investment. Rather lets focus our investment on marketing and social media posts.

I have personally seen one person go from Receptionist/Admin Assistant, to a full Project Training Manager in under 6 months, in charge of around 50 students. That’s how desperate they are to get employees in because employees relaise the conditions of work quickly and leave soon after.

Did low level management get a new office that they didn’t need – Yes
Did Senior Management get new facilities, , complete with pool table & bean bags – Yes
Did BAA get more money for their management parties that they seem to have monthly - Yes

Did Students get investment into anything for them such as instructors or new planes or did anyone with a modicum of common sense resolve any of the students problems or worries over the last 12 months – No

Although the price of ATPL Integrated has gone from 62,799 when I started, to I believe a figure around 73,000 euros now. What does someone get for their extra money I hear you ask. Well a student can expect to receive an iPad Mini and err…..uhmmmm. Yeah not very much. A 9000 euro iPad. Nice

So to finish. Prospective students. DO NOT FALL FOR THE FANCY MARKETING AND THE SMILING FACES I promise you from the bottom of my heart, this will change the second you give them your money. They will entice you with the words ‘a magazine says we are rated 4.8/5 in customer satisfaction by our students’, I beg for BAA to show me those students. They were rated 4.8/5 by a magazine. BAA’s parent company OWNS that magazine, it is like saying ‘who rated you 4.8/5’ and getting the answer ‘well it was us’.

Fancy marketing and YouTube videos of students who are still in ground school flying full motion simulators. I’d love for one of those YouTube students to give me a Q&A about certain procedures on that Airbus simulator, considering that these are people still learning about Lift and Drag formulas then I doubt the Q&A would go on for too long. Just more false advertising, believe me, if you don’t have the face for fancy marketing, then you’ve got no chance of smelling that simulator until your MCC/JOC.

I attended one of BAA’s open days in London earlier this year and was shocked to see how much inaccurate information:mad: they sell to prospective students. Please people, do not fall for it.

I bid for everybody to read the other BAA thread and scroll down to comments made in the last few weeks, I cannot link it as I have less than 10 posts on here under this username, however its quite active so should be close to the top of the list. Honestly, I know people can sit at home and go, ‘unhappy students they will say anything’, honestly, I have read every single comment and cannot find one that I would say is inaccurate. Dukaster, Tecnamflyer, GreenYoda and others make some very good points and even though I don’t know who they are on PPrune, I am sure we will know each other from school, so I can confidently say, none of them are lying.

Hopefully BAA Marketing team read this and maybe give some of us some answers, although they’re probably preparing for another night out. To those senior managers I can only repeat what other people have said – reputation of a flight school is built up over years of hard work and labour and it can come crashing down overnight….DO NOT THINK YOU ARE BIG ENOUGH TO AVOID THE SAME HAPPENING TO YOU.

As one student said, he has told 7 people to avoid BAA, I myself have told 4 or 5 people. This in itself is nearly 900,000 euros of lost revenue, based on your greed and the way you are treating people. I imagine we are not the only people doing so. You’re reputation is slowly starting to diminish amongst Western Europeans, who are tired of your Soviet methods and mindsets, which is such a shame as the potential for BAA to be one of the best schools in Europe is vast. With the right investment in key areas, I would predict BAA could go far. Already, some of the deadwood middle managers who have been the cause of the majority of the problems in the last year have been removed (Agata & Edita B) and new managers instated, only time will tell if this was a good decision.

Prospective Students, look at other schools. There are a lot of quality schools out there for the same price these days. Do not fall for the, 'we will secure you a job with our partner airlines' or the 'we will have you in the right hand seat in 18 months'. This is a school which still endorses P2F schemes, has lied multiple times to students, creates fake LinkedIn profiles to make them seem bigger and more international than they are, has managers who oversee important aspects of running an academy with little more than high school diplomas and zero experience in an aviation environment, has limited resources, is way overcapacity and more recently 'relationship scandals' between managers and students. Welcome to the house of fun.

Maybe the situation is different for TR courses, which BAA Ab-initio is not affiliated with, so it would be unfair for me to criticise that part of the business as I believe TR at BAA is ran quite effectively and well but Please for ATPL if I haven’t said it already, LOOK ELSEWHERE

Please ask any questions, I have missed a lot of things out as this post would go on all day.

uberfly

13th Dec 2018, 22:10

Do you also know what happenef to the guys who were Cadets with Small Planet now that the company has failed?
Did they offer to them an alternative solution or have they just been left on their own?

They are left alone for now with some fanciful promises. Can you believe SP bankrupt after 1 year BAA established the cadet program. This is how they investigate and check their business partners before they sell dreams to prospect students. In reality, two company is somehow affiliated and I am pretty sure BAA has all means to get clear insight about SP before they offer the cadet program. In addition, personally I believe SP was not in need of cadets however BAA push them (or use its connection) to established that cadet scheme to lure more students into academy under job guarantee.

As you all know SP was one of the most well know Pay2Fly provider in the world and BAA was biggest advocator of Pay2Fly as well. Just after BAA start to get well-known, they decide to shift this business to their sister company to AviationCV.com to avoid bad publicity as they are being training organization. Now they present Pay2Fly as hour building program and they don't forget to mention ''salary included'' in their hour building programmes . Yes, you pay 40-50 K for 500 hours and you get 1,000 Euro salary per month. It is pretty sad that affiliated company of BAA has Pay2Fly as core business. Pay2Fly is cancer of the sector and BAA is company responsible of training future pilots, there is big dilemma here.

It is not much different for Smartlynx Cadets when you consider 30K type rating, 3 years obligatory working period and unlimited unpaid leaves and ponzi terms and conditions. It is not far beyond being P2F.

About Avion, I hope some of you can enlighten us but I heard pretty low Terms and Conditions.

As conclusion, best for former SP cadets is to find a job themselves after graduation since it is not even worth to try Avion (?) or Smartlynx. By the way, BAA doesn't even have career service to provide its students after graduation in such cases.

hid3

14th Dec 2018, 07:54

BAA and Small Planets are owned by the same owner. When I was not selected to Wizz cadet programme, I received a very firm push to choose SP cadet program, despite the fact that I was interested in all others (Avion and SmartLynx). They didn't offer any others until I haven't tried applying to SP. In fact I felt pressure like "either you choose SP or have nothing". I refused the SP offer (even before they went bankrupt in Germany & etc) and was planning to start as independent. Up until reading this thread...

flytodie

16th Dec 2018, 18:00

I can add more information all of this. Actually there is some students that already their contract finishing end of February 2019. But still school doesn't care about it. They forcing the students for sign a extension. Even some students already sign extension and school wants from them second extension. There is a lot to write here. But even this thing will be enough to understand what is going on in the school i guess.

av8tor396

17th Dec 2018, 11:26

They forcing the students for sign a extension. Even some students already sign extension and school wants from them second extension.

Some students are already talking to a local lawyer to take BAA to court

flytodie

17th Dec 2018, 12:14

Some students are already talking to a local lawyer to take BAA to court

Yeah i heard about that. But they are making it because of another reason. Not because of extensions i guess. But if they are taking legal actions because of extensions than we might do it like a group action law case. Actually another problem in the school is this one among the students. Mostly people have such a point of view ' i will save myself and don't care others'. Already most of students know each others current situation. We should help each other too.

Warlock1

23rd Dec 2018, 07:08

Duchess_Driver

24th Dec 2018, 10:56

Amazing how these 'die hard fans of the school' are opting to shut the hell up now, instead of defending the place

Maybe they’re just tired of fighting a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent?

av8tor396

24th Dec 2018, 11:21

Maybe they’re just tired of fighting a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent?
Why don’t you enlighten us with your great wisdom O’ Great One?

Duchess_Driver

24th Dec 2018, 14:31

I have never proclaimed to be a fan of the place but have some knowledge of the situation. Regardless of what’s gone on in the past, I know that there are some good people there working very hard to try and rectify the problems and make progress in putting them right.

What i get ‘frustrated’ at is the constant negativity and dwelling on the past. Yes, there were problems, yes, there are challenges but continued bleeding about them isn’t conducive. Focus on the future, the investment and fixes that are being put in place then perhaps things will move on. The BAA management may well have ‘gone quiet’ to focus on where their attention is needed rather than engaging in dialogue that, as far as moving forwards is concerned, isn’t that helpful.

caravel

24th Dec 2018, 18:27

I will be having a final interview with SmartLynx next month, and of course I read this whole thread. I still would like to go and check it for myself. Anybody there who would be ok sharing some info on how it goes about, since it is Christmas and I cannot contact anybody from the school?

Is it a full day screening, or just an individual 1h interview, or how is it like? I am just trying to prepare and plan the trip, but cant really find anything specific online. X) thanks in advance guys, any help will be welcome! :)

av8tor396

25th Dec 2018, 10:18

What i get ‘frustrated’ at is the constant negativity and dwelling on the past.

Dwelling on the past? Up until last week the problems were ongoing with no solution. Just the same old promises. And now, the holidays.

Yes, there were problems, yes, there are challenges but continued bleeding about them isn’t conducive.

There ARE problems and there is still no laid out operational plan as to how to fix it. Management has given the famous speech of hiring new instructors and planes that they have been given since the ages.

......perhaps things will move on. The BAA management may well have ‘gone quiet’ to focus on where their attention is needed rather than engaging in dialogue that, as far as moving forwards is concerned, isn’t that helpful.

So, let me get this straight: You have paid thousands of euros for an education (that you or most of the others are not receiving properly). You know that there are problems that almost ALL students are experiencing. And your only glimpse of hope is 'PERHAPS things will move on' or 'MAY have gone quiet to focus on a plan of action'? And you think YOU are the armed person in the battle of wits? :D Man, I really think you deserve to be there!

Maverick00

12th Jan 2019, 15:20

I'm passed my Wizz Air Assessment in Vilnius... and I'm waiting for the Interview with the airline...but after I read all this post about the school all my happiness went away..

Nurse2Pilot

18th Jan 2019, 21:09

Just got an email from them for a career day in Milan and Rome. Wow! BAA was one of the schools I was considering before, maybe because of the YT videos I found. Glad to have this thread as an eye opener!

Altered_P

22nd Jan 2019, 11:03

eeeaddict

22nd Jan 2019, 18:53

Does anyone know if this lady worked for BAA?
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/865x532/kzalc9k_1b66bfc63e3714253d1f3ec1c82fb96e49801f09.png

eeeaddict

23rd Jan 2019, 04:27

wow is she that tall in person? I guess BAA knows that a lot of us are shy or naieve and pretty people help put those feelings at ease, to our detriment lol!

uberfly

23rd Jan 2019, 12:27

Hi everyone

Were there any improvements?

Do you think the Wizzair program is still worth going through the hassle of this school? If the situation is that bad, I wonder if Wizzair will really want to continue the partnership, and what will happen for current cadets if the company realizes that their future pilots' training was not as good as advertised by the school...

Yes there are improvements. Waiting time is increased to 4 months from 3 months. And desperately some of the students are happy to fly 11 hours after 3 months of waiting.

flytodie

1st Feb 2019, 09:35

The main problem is actually scheduling for now. And VFR delays caused by weather, but IFR is totally about planning. Because math is simple. For example they 4 IFR a/c with 5 IRI. They trying to give every student 3 slots per week.

A/C can operate 9 hours a day roughly. Because of ATC working times. And yet of course its impossible to get 9 hours because of refuel and so on... So in 6 working days (because one day off for instructor) if we calculate from 7 hour average, 168 hours. 3 slots per week for a student means between 9-12 hours (because of some flights 2 hours some of 3 hours and some 4 hours. But actually majority of flights 3-4 hours). So if we calculate from average 11 hours they need to operate 16 students in one time.

If you will look at amount of student they try to operate for now around 25-26 students at one time. And yet this is not only problem. Because of 100h-200h inspections most of the time they have 3 even sometimes they have 2 a/c. Even not talking about unexpected maintenance for a/c. And yet they doing all of this in other base with third part company.

Dukaster

11th Feb 2019, 20:55

The management is trying to improve the training. There's a new director, which is more attached to fix the issues.
The lack of investment is not directly their responsibility. Aviation solution group (the owner of BAA, aviationCV, BGS Baltic Ground Service) is responsible for that.
The instructors also do what they can, as well the managers the students are in contact with. The training managers usually do their maximum to help out.

Many students were sent home due to the delays. It's the best thing BAA could do. Let me remind you that last year, all those students waited everyday to fly, stuck at home, paying a rent. Now at least they have a date to move to Spain and start flying.

BAA is victim of its own success. There are still some internal issues, but the school is moving on the right direction.

flytodie

11th Feb 2019, 21:20

Still some of students are waiting. Its not about being victim of their success. They was already knew that how much students they will have. Look dude most probably i'm started my education more early than you. And from the date we was started we try to warn school. We asked questions about how they will operate all this students whit such number A/C. They was saying don't worry it will be okey bla bla.... But at the end we saw what happened. And yes Martynas is good guy at least he trying to do something. But is it enough ? NO !!! I'm flying every week 2 times where is the improvement about this ? And that first in first out rule they was talking about its only a fairytale. By the way let me remind you one thing we are talking about IFR. There is a lot of students whom they are not finish their IFR or waiting MEP and already their contract finished or soon it will finish. And i dont know how you looking but for me management and school is same. If they not able to get investment which they want, they can change company or not deal with this thing. Training managers doing maximum help out ? LOL ! You know that there was a time even they didnt answer emails like one month. So dude as you can see at topic majority of students know and see what is going on really. So i will not discuss with such die hard fan like you about school. I dont know you but first promise which we was get NOVEMBER 2018 finish date. And guess what 2019 Feb and still waiting. You are assuming something only looking your situation. I suggest you talk with some students from February 2017 group which still trying to finish their education.

uberfly

12th Feb 2019, 21:27

I don't know how you guys know whether BAA receive sufficient investment or not. Either some BAA employees blame them to cover their failure or you know someone in Avia Solution's management board. To start with if you consider employing enough FI is worth any money/investment, you are wrong. Maybe equipment cost money but often such investments financed with the mean of long term bank loans (often called leasing) so they don't need to pay lump sump money to manufacturer at once. So it is not all about budget they have but I believe it is mainly poor management.

About improvement in school, I see now improvement but at least they start to aim to the right direction. We will see if they will succeed or not. But this does not mean anything for current students. Most of us had already one of the worst experience/choice of our life and in the future I don't think many of us remember BAA as a good memory. Most of us still suffering, some of waiting for months and months, some of us having 1-2 flight per week, some of us waiting for months for flying MEP for 11 hours and others thinking what is next after graduation, especially for guys from Smartlynx and Avion. Because BAA still doesn't have career advice/help service before or after graduation to help their students (especially independent ones) to get a job.

About support from school. It is ''0''. Training managers were never good or know what they are doing since the first day I stepped into school. Very sad. In every internal mail which is shared with students they always mentioned 24 hours rule to answer students inquiries. But as it was mentioned one of the previous post some of the messages left without respond for days and weeks.Students never guided by BAA or training managers for the next steps or no information provided by them unless we ask them.

All in short, school is still missing professionalism. They should really look into schools out there to improve their service, transparency and the way they communicate with related parties.

lilflyboy262...2

21st Mar 2019, 00:22

Does anyone know if these issues are just confined to the piston training AC or are these issues across the board and affecting the A320 TR courses as well?

KT1988

21st Mar 2019, 01:48

I just saw this thread and what I can really not believe is how it is possible they get so many students (especially after reading how many planes they got, even much smaller schools in Poland have 2 multi engine planes for ME/IR rating). The marketing must be the cause, since when I decided in 2017 I do not wish to be a lawyer and live in Norway for the rest of my life and instead realize my big dream the only schools that appeared were the Norwegian one in Sandefjord and BAA...... Happily I got the idea that there must be some flight schools in Poland (so I checked through Google) and happily found some schools and chose one that I am very satisfied with (right now not even all aircraft are in continuous use and there are already plans to get 3 more (before the season) on good weather days since people can book when they want to fly a week in advance, and you always get at least 3 slots per week (sometimes 5) if you are available all the time).

I just can not believe how so many people can pay 72 000 Euro for the integrated course if the only difference is some ground-school for the ATPL exams, its definitely cheaper to employ a private teacher if you need it for the subjects. As for guaranteed jobs, well if failing to get any job in the airlines its still cheaper to p2f than to pay for an integrated course.

I actually believe that any random school in Poland will be better than what is described in this thread so if you do not prefer Warszawa check Lodz or Poznan schools before paying 72 000 Euro or 100 000 Euro or even more at integrated schools. For the difference in price you can have 5 or even 10 teachers giving you private ATPL lessons until you pass and still have a lot of money left. And theory ground-school is the only difference between 0-ATPL+FI and integrated course (theory that is usable in practical flying is taught perfectly and examined before you are allowed to fly solo or to build hours after achieving PPL(A) ).

The Deec

26th Mar 2019, 12:21

They are advertising 737 type course and if you dont get a job within a year they refund you 10 grand. Can anyone shed any light on this ad campaign ?

A320LGW

26th Mar 2019, 12:51

Are you looking for the catch? It comes in the definition of 'job'.

The catch is that they include 'line training programmes' as a job. So if when you finish your type rating you are approached by AviationCV (you will be) and they try to give you a placement of 500hrs for 40,000eu or whatever for a salary of 700eu a month, if you say no to this then they count it as you said no to a job and you will not get 10,000eu back.

hid3

26th Mar 2019, 20:49

I was also receiving those ad emails and thought the similar ideas as mentioned above ^^^^ which came to my mind. Most likely they will try to "make a great job offer" in one of their parent or sister companies for minimalistic salary & conditions and if you, the naughty boy with no experience, refuse this great offer, then it's purely your decision but you won't get the refund :)

Barmn

26th Mar 2019, 20:58

RomanK

27th Mar 2019, 06:32

Does anyone know/saw the B737 TR + first officer position ad on airBaltic Training facebook page? Self-sponsored 737 TR and a guaranteed FO job until November with possible contract renewal. Any thoughts on this deal?
Air Baltic will phase out their 737s this year so 'possible contract renewal' is not likely.
Plus they have their own training center Air Baltic Training with 737 simulator, it is not BAA's business apparently

FBW390

28th Mar 2019, 22:09

KT 1988,
I have to give advice for a choice of ATO to a young friend that want to start training. You seem to be happy in Poland, much, much better than the ones in BAA. Could you kindly tell the name of this good school? Thaks in advance.

FBW 390

uberfly

29th Mar 2019, 08:13

If something offered by BAA is too good to be true there is most probably P2F behind this or bad quality product. Be aware, don't fall into such traps. They are not Top 3 training aviation center, they are not even close. This title given to them by their sister company. Imagine I create an internet site, I put some information about myself and other competitors and then I called myself best of something, isn't it funny?

I heard from few former TR students that TR standarts are pretty low.

KT1988

31st Mar 2019, 22:47

FBW390 Tried to write a private message to you but the system did not want to send it. So I will write here instead:

Since you asked for a advice, there are many good schools in Poland. The most known one is Bartolini, but they got some waiting time to begin the training (I do not know if students have to wait long for slots or not after the training start) and cost a bit more than the other schools in Poland. The school I am attending is Goldwings Flight Academy and I am very satisfied with the school. The only unsatisfied person I saw during my stay was a foreign student who did not put a big effort in his PPL(A) training (did not pass exams at ULC for the first license which can be passed all 9 in one sitting in 2 hours (at least I did it that way)) and he demanded to fly solo cross country after flying with the best and most patient instructor (who lets you do really many mistakes and never gets angry no matter how much you fail, and instructing is a passion for him since he keeps doing it part time after he became FO in Sprint Air) and almost landing outside the runway at a grass airport in Kikity (the instructor had to save it and really waited until the last moment. I saw it from an AT-3 waiting to line up, others saw it from the terrace of the hotel) where we went on a 5 day trip when EPBC was closed. The school did what it could to help him like giving him the best (according to me the best) instructor and taking him in a small group that went to Kikity for those 5 days since he wanted intensive training. After the episode the student went almost mad that the school does not let him fly alone and the instructor corrects him.... "sadly" for him the school did not let him fly alone on the more demanding grass airfield (EPBC got much traffic but its much more easy airfield) and crash the plane.

Everyone else as far as I know was very satisfied with the school even those few students who were a little unhappy after questioning from our CFI before solo flights or after failing internal flight exam before solo flight. The owner and CFI of the school does practical theory checks on the students who fly on their first solo pattern and first solo cross country to be sure that they have the basic knowledge. Its not a school where you can just know nothing and pass the exercises.

As for the prices a naked 0-fATPL with CPL and IR/ME can be done for like 37000 - 38000 Euro and if you want it with MCC/JOC and FI rating then it cost about 48000 Euro with job guarantee as a FI (including a salary per block hour, the salary have to be negotiated personally with the school.) (ofc. you have to pass the exercises, exams etc. itd.) The school is also waiting for a program with Nordica job guarantee in the airlines, in the beginning the program is planned to be available to students at the school who already got PPL(A). I do not know more about it yet but I am very curious about it myself. (Prices are subject to change, what I tell are the prices I got, since more and more people wish to do the training in Poland they can rise)

Feel free to contact me on facebook (Krzysztof Thor) and I can also give you contact to the owner of the school if your friend plan to visit the place and see if he like it.

PS. The price is for standard hours it means that if your friend does not ace the PPL(A) then he will have to use more than the 45 hours of mandatory training. Most people use like 50 up to 60 hours (I did 52 including mandatory solo flights before PPL(A) exam). Those extra hours cost extra 125 euro per hour since its with instructor. The same apply if you fail the exercises in MEP(L) or IR/ME its most costly since DA-42 is like 1500 PLN per hour (about 345 Euro). But its better to learn the stuff well at the school than fail at the official exam or at airline interview I believe.

P.PS: Just so you know I own a Cessna 172 that fly for the school since October 2018. So just tell your friend to also ask other students at the school. As for me I have such a strong belief in the school and its future that after getting my first PPL(A) licence I decided to invest in my own aircraft to be part of it not only as a student and future FI.

saxamen

1st Apr 2019, 16:04

Read this before going to BAAMy personal story with BAA begins in September 2016. I signed a contract with BAA for ATPL integrated course. The sum of the training services was 59 900 EUR.

Today this same contract costs MUCH more (around 75 000).

- During that period I paid more than 24 000EUR and got 36 !!! flight hours.
- During that period I`ve completed my ATPL integrated course in BAA and passed almost all my exams in CAA.
- In 2017 BAA terminated my contract with no refund.

My story began in June - August 2017 flight season.

On 27.10.2017 after the 2017 flight season ended BAA terminated my contract and it was the hardest hit I took in my life. The "reasons" are shown down below.

Okay, so in the contract that BAA provided me, was a statement that BAA has the right to terminate the contract prior 5 day notice if the student violates the "code of conduct".

As a "violation of the code of conduct" BAA refereed to:

CLAIM: I was twice (2) LATE for 10 - 15 minutes for my flight training at the aerodrome.
ANSWER: Theory takes place in Vilnius, practice flying - in Kaunas. 17.06.2017 Due to NEW CITY bus time schedule, I was late for my first flight with my friend. Second one - at 10.08.2017 was due to my car simply won`t start. All this 2 times I was late for 10 - 15 minutes. What a slack!

C: I was absent ONCE for flight training on 21.08.2017 (end of flying season).
A: I was in Vilnius doing my VISA.

C: Two (2) safety reports while flight training
A: Brilliant. "safety report 1" - 27.06.2017 while I was doing touch-and-goes in Aleksotas aerodrome, while turning downwind my instructor started shouting at me, told me to land and on the ground said that from his words I lead the plane into "spiral dive". Until this day, after getting my CPL license in other flight school, I know that it is not truth. I do not recall ANY abnormal attitudes of the plane that day. Nevertheless, the INSTRUCTOR is responsible for the safety of student and himself.This is simply nonsense.

Next "safety report" - on 11 of August after waiting for my flight for 5-7 hours in the briefing room (normal period for BAA 2017), while taxing to park the plane I slightly TOUCHED a small bush 20 cm with my left wing, living absolutely NO NOTICEABLE MARK on the wing surface. That`s it. Do you realise that BAA regarded to my learning mistakes as one of the REASONS TO TERMINATE MY CONTRACT WITH NO REFUND? All pilots that I`ve told this about confirmed that it is complete nonsense.

C: Lack of discipline and not preparing for classes
A: This is the best one. Look, being an ISRAELI citizen (which was obviously known to BAA), BAA gave me an instructor that was (from his words) FORMER IRANIAN MILITARY PILOT! Our nations are in a state of war for the last 50 years. From the first day I had a feeling that he treats me unlike my groupies. He often let me stay on the ground for 5-6 hours waiting for my flight or not flying with me at all. He told me so many times that if I don`t like something - I can change the instructor. I did not do that because I believed that our conflict could be settled. I was wrong.

===At the attached document "FLIGHTS" you can see my flying progress compared to the progress of my gropmates:
Red boxes - me not flying that specific day while at least one student of my group was flying.===

That is right - at the end of the flying season I got 2 times LESS (36) flight hours than my gropmates.

That is absolutely insane. I could not and can not believe what happened! My family was investing in me all this time and were in a serious financial situation paying for my studies. I payed almost 25 000 EUR (DEAR GOD!!), and got ONLY 36 (THIRTY_SIX) flight hours and got my contract terminated!!!

It was so INSAINLY STRESSING situation that until this very day my family doesn`t know that I had to sign a NEW CONTRACT with a NEW FLIGHT SCHOOL that was cheaper and , as I saw it, more honest with students - it will be unbelievably stressful for my family to know that all the money they were working so hard to earn, giving all what they got to pay for me ended up in 36 instead of almost 220 (!!!) flight hours and a terminated contract!. I feel anger and disbelief that such a thing can happen in Europe today. Each time I think about what happened with me keeps me awake at night. Makes my heart go faster in pain after I recall my experience with BAA.

In my new school my contract was 4 pages and the cost was about 30% LESS (not 60K) from the very beginning.

To end my story I want you to understand, that no mater how well-marketed, good looking, polished and hyped the company is, you ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS have to double check and verify all the information you are given. More money you pay does not guarantee anything. The smile they met me with for the first time, was the same smile they terminated my contract. Understand one thing: any flight school that is legally registered will NOT GIVE YOU A LICENSE - only CAA (Civil Aviation Administration) will give you a license. Only purpose of a flight school - to prepare you to meet the requirements to obtain the license. And I can tell you one thing - the next week our group found out there is no difference, some of us wanted to change BAA for a cheaper one, but we could not - the contract does not let you do that without paying "fines".

In the newest contract BAA provides you, from my friends in BAA told me, you are NOT ALLOWED TO SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT BAA, otherwise - you can find yourself in my position.

I told you my story how I DID NOT became a pilot in Baltic Aviation Academy and regret the day when I heard about them for the first time in my life. I do know a lot of people who have the same feeling about BAA and share my pain and regret.

Please, be smart and don`t make our mistake.

Thank you.

PS
BAA have send me an official letter demanding deleting my previous comment in Google maps where I described all this in more emotional way.

Be smart.

FBW390

1st Apr 2019, 16:06

KT1988,

Thanks very much for your answer and all the information. I really appreciate. I xill consider it of course...

Best Regards,

FBW390

uberfly

7th Apr 2019, 11:03

I think nothing changed so far since October 2018. BAA has around 200-250 enrolled students but they have only 4 VFR and 5 IFR instructors where 2 of them is teaching only ME/IR (plus some part time FI comes and go for couple of days a month). I wonder IF they do anything to fix this situation because it doesn't look so. Again students lost contact with BAA and they are not informed about anything, they are all left in the dark. They just pray to be scheduled and hoping to finish. They don't even expect to receive simple service because they lost their hope about BAA. Only information provided with students is how many total hours flown in VFR, IFR and ME per month. It is total mess in terms of organization and planning. New AIP was published therefore charts has changed but BAA was not even aware of that students have to solve this problem themselves. It is never flown in the morning all flight are scheduled in the afternoon therefore students depart IFR but have to land VFR for their IFR training. Multi engines are back but their maintenance takes 1 week, this means they fly 1 week and they are off in hanger for a week. With this performance, bottle neck for each phase of the training narrowing down so waiting time for it getting longer and longer.

On average students could fly 4-5 hours per week. Students invited to start certain phase of training but they could only do their first flight in 2 weeks. There are many more to write down here but I hope someone who has more clear insight about the situation could support.

Students just need information, explanation and the service they are paid for. You have to give them this otherwise you will create bunch of unsatisfied people.

saxamen

7th Apr 2019, 12:16

BAA "kindly asked" students to move from Lithuania to Spain, claiming that life in Spain is cheaper and they will complete the flights faster. Result: rent and products are 30-40% more expensive and about ONE IFR flight per TEN DAYS from October until mid December. People lost tons of money for just sitting and doing nothing. Rent in Spain - about 700 eur when in Vilnuis - 350 eur. Guys payed brokers 700 eur for deposit. Each one. Others lived via AirBnb.

saxamen

7th Apr 2019, 12:23

For example - from October until end of November they had 2 (TWO) c172 for IFR flights for about 33 (THIRTY THREE)! students! After this BAA sent about 20 students back home. Do you realize it? People had CONTRACTS for rent and BAA sent them home saying there will be no flights.

fflyby

17th Apr 2019, 14:43

Training quality in BAA is extremely low. My personal experience and sudjestion not to start training with them. Better pay a little more to anoher ATO, and you will get better training? better instructors and create solid base for your future job search and career

polskipilot88

19th Apr 2019, 10:49

Air Baltic will phase out their 737s this year so 'possible contract renewal' is not likely.
Plus they have their own training center Air Baltic Training with 737 simulator, it is not BAA's business apparently

co like air baltic are killing the market. these models should finally come to an end. please don't reply to them at all

aviatorfromIST

21st Apr 2019, 17:39

Hello guys, newcomer is here.

Firstly, i must say im very sorry to hear all this problems from students of BAA. I was looking around for detailed reviews from students and graduates and found out this website.

Here is my story, all of you must have heard Turkish Airlines. the company is running cadet program for years now. i was accepted couple of months ago and company informed us due to long wait list for air schools in Turkey, we will be sent to BAA, Lithuania (around 20 cadets).

My question is now, all discouraging events happened, delays and everything, did the academy solve your problems? is it getting any better now? or are we coming into a mess?

Also, i would like to hear any other opinions from you, if you have any. cheers

aviatorfromIST

22nd Apr 2019, 07:50

It is actually an ATPL. we were thinking an MPL program like you, but the company clearly stated that it will be an ATPL. Yes the company is behind us, in fact they will regularly visit BAA to inspect both cadets and academy (training and everything). I think BAA promised a training time to the company and idk what will happen if any delays occur. the meetings between BAA and the company took months.

We heard if Turkish Airlines finds training good, they might send new cadets in future.

aviatorfromIST

22nd Apr 2019, 14:38

Again, you have Turkish Airlines behind you, it is a totally different scenario, they will take care of you regardless of what BAA do, it will be their responsibility. Also as i am understanding it will not be money from your own pocket? Turkish pay for your transport, rent etc etc? Also then the hits the school love to give will not affect you so much, except the wasted time and frustration with the delays. It is more a problem for self sponsored cadets who have to fund for themselves the mess BAA create for everybody.

Yes, all expenses covered by the airline, we are already hired, and working for them (as cadets:)

youngretired

22nd Apr 2019, 16:31

It made me laugh when I read your post aviatorfromIST and the reason is TK is famous about picking the worst but seemingly big ATOs every time they need one. There was a FIT experience and one can still find the cadets’ google group and read all the drama (it was a public group back then)
Anyways, good luck with that.

JamiButt

23rd Apr 2019, 19:19

Hi,

I am about to do an interview with BAA on the 13th of May, for the Wizzair cadetship. Has the situation improved since then in the academy?

Thanks

youngretired

24th Apr 2019, 17:18

Yes, they invented the wheel again in one month.

Dukaster

3rd May 2019, 10:25

Hi,
I am about to do an interview with BAA on the 13th of May, for the Wizzair cadetship. Has the situation improved since then in the academy?

Some students sue the school.
It gives you an idea of the current toxic ambiance there...

Warlock1

4th May 2019, 08:03

Wizzair may be phasing out BAA and switching to L3 instead:

https://www.flightdeckfriend.com/pilot_programs/wizz-air

uberfly

4th May 2019, 10:18

Wizzair may be phasing out BAA and switching to L3 instead:

https://www.flightdeckfriend.com/pilot_programs/wizz-air

I don't think that would be the case. As long as I know, L3 has Wizz Air cadet program even before BAA started it.

Dukaster

4th May 2019, 14:54

Wizzair may be phasing out BAA and switching to L3 instead:

https://www.flightdeckfriend.com/pilot_programs/wizz-air
Yes

Some colleagues told that Wizz approaches other schools in Eastern Europe to generate cadet programs.
They are not satisfied with BAA. And it's proven by the new procedure that wizz steped up with BAA.
Wizz cadets apparently have a low level, wizz decided to check them after the MCC to check their level.

You see clearly, all those clues that BAA is an unprofessional school.

LegioX

8th May 2019, 09:07

How is the current status quo in BAA at the moment ? I have been asked from few friends some comment on it. Thanks.

barkerlut

8th May 2019, 15:38

It‘s mixed - things are definitely improving, there is no more significant waiting time between ground school and flying. They got rid of most bad ground instructors, but also lost some experienced flight instructors.
Nonetheless be aware that BAA is still BAA. It is and always will be run by the mother company (Avia Solutions), which does not give a single thought about giving students a great time. It’s about the money and you feel that BAA has no real option but to press it through towards the students. Incompetency has greatly reduced, though. They had (maybe thanks to the outrage here... who knows) lots of staff changes and it seems to pay off slowly. Information flow towards the students has also improved. But keeping in mind what has happened to the former students people are still expecting fishy things at every corner, which makes the overall relationship between students and BAA somewhat salty.

The reports from others in this forum are definitely true - they reschedule flying so that you might be forced to rent and cancel apartments in Spain, Kaunas and Vilnius on a short notice and commute between those cities without compensation. But in the contracts they informed you this could happen. Its just that nobody expected them to actually use this to the extent they do. It’s run by a mother company which has an interest in earning as much as possible. ˋnough said. But on the other hand... do other big flight schools behave differently? I honestly don’t know.
They equip you with wrong LogBooks? Good luck trying to get them to equip you with the right one. Sue them for those 40€ or swallow the pill and complain in a forum like PPRuNe (which people do, as you see). Those are the small things which make the relationship somewhat spoiled and leave you with some sort of disbelief, seeing that they actually trying to squeeze the last 10€ out of the students.

Overall - be aware of two major things I’d say: Things like „Wizz is pulling out“ is not true and things like „this place is falling apart“ is also not true. It’s the frustration of students which have been ignored by BAA too long and it needs to unload somewhere. What’s true, however, is the general behaviour of BAA (described by many posters above, so no need for me to elaborate) towards the students in case something goes not as planned. This is what the one poster above means - some sue for compensation, some others swallow the pill and keep on going.
They‘ll train you to get the license you paid for. If you’re satisfied after all is another story.

travis.karl

11th May 2019, 21:14

Absolutely one of the worst flight schools I have ever heard of.

I still don't get it: why are you still selecting cheap of quality? You wouldn't like to put your kids on a plane flown by bad pilots, would you?
Save your money, work hard for a higher budget and select a good school with reputation.

hid3

12th May 2019, 17:50

BAA has launched a separate site to promote their marketing even more: tapkpilotu.lt
Among all the information I found that the acceptance criteria is age between 18 and 30, high school maths and physics grades of 7 and above.
I'd say these criteria can be considered as key ones for selection to WizzAir cadet programme (just my personal opinion).

Also, there has been quite A LOT of publications in local yellow press ordered by BAA on how being a pilot is cool, how pilots earn the most, how there's a lack of pilots, how it's a dream job, etc etc etc.
You can find (and translate) all the publications here:
https://www.delfi.lt/multimedija/tapk-pilotu/del-svajoniu-darbo-pakloja-tiek-kad-galetu-nusipirkti-buta-vilniuje.d?id=77229097
https://www.15min.lt/mokslasit/straipsnis/technologijos/pilotu-atrankos-10-savaiciu-po-padidinamuoju-stiklu-646-1029982
https://www.delfi.lt/multimedija/tapk-pilotu/43-metu-patirti-turintis-lektuvo-kapitonas-apie-sveikatos-bukle-alga-ir-pilotu-romanus-su-stiuardesemis.d?id=77477351
https://www.delfi.lt/multimedija/tapk-pilotu/siu-specialistu-ima-trukti-masiskai-siulo-uzdirbti-tukstancius.d?id=77087923
https://www.delfi.lt/multimedija/tapk-pilotu/kritines-situacijos-lektuve-kaip-tokiais-atvejais-elgiasi-igula.d?id=78384313
https://www.delfi.lt/multimedija/tapk-pilotu/keleiviai-apie-tai-net-neitaria-auksine-taisykle-kurios-kylant-laikosi-kiekvienas-pilotas.d?id=78126637
https://www.delfi.lt/darbas/profesijos/lietuvoje-uzdirba-daugiausiai-bet-uz-mokslus-teks-pakloti-150-tukst-euru.d?id=80299625
https://www.delfi.lt/darbas/profesijos/lietuvoje-uzdirba-daugiausiai-bet-specialistu-drastiskai-stinga-kaip-atrodo-profesija-is-arti.d?id=81100571

I think there will be more to come, as these publications appear about every 3-4 weeks :)

av8tor396

14th May 2019, 07:39

It makes sense to appeal to non English speaking medias. The international forums (such as this or Facebook etc) is already aware of their chaotic environment.

KT1988

16th May 2019, 22:40

@wheniwasin: You sent me a PM based upon this thread about the Polish school but I can not answer it because your inbox is full according to the forum info. Feel free to contact me on facebook (Krzysztof Thor) if you need more info.

wheniwasin

17th May 2019, 13:39

Sorry about that. I just joined the forum, and have a 1 message maximum limit.

EraNova00

19th May 2019, 04:49

Hello everybody
I am going to take my aptitude test in September. I am new here, could somebody kindly describe me briefly what is the situation in the academy now?

uberfly

19th May 2019, 21:13

Hello everybody
I am going to take my aptitude test in September. I am new here, could somebody kindly describe me briefly what is the situation in the academy now?

There is no before and after. As previously mentioned, just read what has been written here. This would just give you enough information. For the future references, if there would be some improvement, probably people would also write here some positive feedbacks but there is no at the moment. I hope it is clear.

youngretired

20th May 2019, 18:50

They’re improving about the marketing skills as I can see from here.

uberfly

22nd May 2019, 18:39

Current waiting times during the progress of training;

Theory to VFR 1-1,5 months
VFR to Night VFR 3-4 weeks
Night VFR to FNPT 2 months
FNPT to IFR 3 months
IFR to Multi Engine 1 month and increasing

Basically minimum 8 months of sitting at home. Please correct me if numbers are not reflecting real waiting times.

EraNova00

22nd May 2019, 21:55

youngretired

do you really think it is funny? I am about to pay 62000$, worrying, trying to figure out the truth., and what do I receive ? A “perfect” joker, that instead of writing down a real facts and things, writes me some stupid bull**** and thinks that it’s fun! If you still didn’t get, I should tell you - your jokes are not appropriate and relevant to the case. Go to circus, it is a place where jokes are very welcomed!

hid3

23rd May 2019, 06:05

Mate, chill down. Instead please have some read on older posts in this thread to find out the responses.
Since you mentioned 62k, were you accepted to Wizz cadet programme or has the price dropped?

Finally, nobody forces you to pay that amount to BAA - there are many other great schools around.

EraNova00

23rd May 2019, 06:25

Forgive me, buddy... I had a really :mad: day... usually I don’t do like that... now reading once again a :mad: that I’ve written and feel like an ... you know who...
i don’t know what price was exactly before, but I was told that the price for WizzAir cadet program is 62k

Dukaster

29th Jun 2019, 12:16

I just talked with a captain. In his previous Airline, the hiring of former BAA students is a No Go.
Says a lot about the quality of the school...

P40Warhawk

29th Jun 2019, 17:18

Such an useful comment. So heard from, spoken with doesnt bring anyone anywhere. Which airline was he talking about?

ansarias

11th Jul 2019, 22:39

Kaeser

Can you still help out with this? I'm in the final stages of the Wizz air cadet program selection process and would like some advice.

PilotRoger

12th Jul 2019, 14:23

Great input.... So which airline?

Warlock1

15th Jul 2019, 07:29

BAA s reputation isn't the greatest in the aviation community, however one captains feedback isn't enough to generalize the whole crowd coming out of there either.

Dukaster

15th Jul 2019, 09:07

The Captain's feedback is just another among many others
it's a low quality school, the prices have increased which have made the deal not really interesting.
Graduation is 6-8 months delayed so far, just for information (€€€).

Now guys you know more about the school. If you enroll, you perfectly know what to expect, big boys.

Lynx1

15th Jul 2019, 11:00

Maybe in that captain's opinion, who says he is right.

I am a recent graduate of the school and got a job for a sponsored type rating with good pay at the first assessment I did, so couldn't have been that bad.

The school has many issues and i wouldn't recommend any friends to go there, but to say everyone coming out of there is rubbish and cannot find jobs or companies have no interest in them is not true at all, not in my experience certainly.

iflytodream

15th Jul 2019, 11:15

BAA is maybe not the best school so far but many many students are already pilot today in some big airlines.

For the others that cannot afford EasyJet program at +120k€. Wizzair cadet program is really attractive for only (non PPL holders) 62k€ TR included (bounded).

PilotRoger

15th Jul 2019, 15:06

It would be good if you could tell us more, because with all your posts, it looks like you are mostly pissed off at BAA rather than being objective, and all aspiring pilots need objectivity to make an important decision on choosing their flight school.

From other side, I just hope someone from BAA is reading this comments, so they could improve or do something about it.

Cheers mate!

saxamen

30th Jul 2019, 13:15

Just read my story, man and make a decision!

uberfly

2nd Aug 2019, 13:51

IFR flight partially halted at the moment due to lack of instructors for couple of days already and probably will last few more days.

hid3

2nd Aug 2019, 21:18

Any ideas how often do VFR students are having their flights now?

spacecruiser

7th Aug 2019, 23:16

Dear expert fellows.

I need advice regarding A320 hour building program which is offered by aviation cv. Are they reliable? One of my friend didn’t had good experience from them. He was dropped from program and aviation cv not even replying to email!

uberfly

9th Aug 2019, 18:05

I think it is not a right place to ask this. Topic is about BAA Training but not about Aviation.CV. If you read this thread carefully through you would find some information regarding to AviationCV. But again it is totally irrelevant.

Officer Kite

10th Aug 2019, 00:34

[

I'm pretty sure you just answered your own question

Andreia Almeida

24th Sep 2019, 09:38

Hello guys
I read so.many things in this forum and I really appreciate your sharing. Can you please advise me how is the situation now? Still all this mess or is something better?

I am planning to apply to the wizzair cadet program but with all this comments I am thinking if should be better to do the ATPL in a school without this cadet program and then try my lucky in the end of the journey.

Thank you so much for you opinion

hid3

24th Sep 2019, 14:03

The biggest question will be will you be selected for the Wizz cadet programme. Try to apply. If they do not select you, then go with another school.

uberfly

24th Sep 2019, 16:42

I agree with this as well. Go for Wizz but nothing else.

Officer Kite

25th Sep 2019, 10:04

CaptFindusTK99

What an incoherent mess of a post

Juppie902

3rd Oct 2019, 11:58

Hey, I see that they offer cadet program with LOT Polish airlines now , this is new and exciting! A friend who also took a look said he saw that being a EU citizen is a requirement, is that true ? Also, how is the school cost-wise ? Some say the price to be bloated because of their reputation some say its just right.

unluckyjr

4th Oct 2019, 10:39

Can you read?