QR instructors shortage

[Dan cooper]

QR line captains are receiving company emails to apply for instructor position. They are reluctant to apply.

In any major airlines the instructors are privileged group of individuals,
Does anyone know why the instructor job doesn't appeal to pilots in QR?

[Homo Ludens]

It's very simple, actually. And, of course, it's a list :)
1. They are overworked.
2. The 'package' is far from great.
3. The company standardization is lousy, nearing non-existent. So, every trainer for themselves, which is not easy, I can tell you.
4. There is NO protection - the trainee screws up and it's the instructor's a$$ on the line. And it makes no difference if he's been 10+ years in the company.
5. They are underappreciated - as you said, there MUST be some incentives. Not in this case study.
6. Having to spend more time with their families is an illusion, what with all the night flying and sim sessions.
7. ...
I'm sure somebody will add to the list. If you are considering joining the training department, make sure you do it for the right reasons. If you don't actually like teaching, it could become a very gruesome endeavor.
Cheers!
H.L

[CI999]

It speaks for it self, new SOP for the A330 (enforce @ the end of the month), after 10 years in the company they still trying to fig out how to operate the aircraft :ugh: :ugh:.
With the poor level of KNOWLEDGE & experience in the training dept CPT IM, AQ were in charge.....!!! and big number of negative instructor :} they will never get right.
my advice stay away from the miss:p
if you want, you may ask why the CRM CP GH has left (leaving company soon), it might anwer your Q ?.:D

[A320 Man]

The list goes on,

Why should I be an instructor?

-You are paid for training, but you lose a lot on the hours (you fly only short flights), so you earn the same money at the end of the month with more effort and less family time.
-You work on daily basis with minimum days off and often with minimum rest.
-6 or 7 duty days are the normal for your roster.
- Forget the layover especially the nice long ones.

I prefer to be a line captain with no responsibility; I fly from one layover to the other with max days off for my fleet.

Do you still want to be an instructor?...... I don't think so.

[AirbusMaster]

Examples of instructors rosters

Typical instructor roster:
sim sessions from midnight till 0400 am, for 2 or 3 days, 1 day off then AMM, ISB, DXB, DEL, 2 days off, LHR, one night layover, JED,1 day off SIM, SIM, SIM, SIM, CAI, BOM

Typical line captain roster form the same period:
SIN 4 days, 2 days off, PEK 3days, 3 days off, BEY, FRA one night, 2 days STBY,1 day off, MLE 2 days layover, 3 days off.

You can change the name of the destination to match your fleet but the concept remains valid.

Instructors are not only required to remain alert to teach, but also avoid and correct the trainees mistakes even when tired by such duty cycle.

[A330 man]

Instructors receive no support from their department, e.g. you have to search personally for the training material to teach, updating the training material is your own responsibility.

You do a single mistake and you'll be out of training with shame-in some cases instructors lost any chance for future promotion or fleet transfer.

Try to get a nice layover to take your family along, many times the single request is denied due to the famous word in the rostering department: Sorry , unable due to TRAINING NEEDS while that fact is : WE DON'T CARE

Try to resign the training in your current fleet, you will be black lsited not to be a traininer again on any fleet.

It reminds me of the famous Eagles' song : "Hotel California" you can check in, but you can never leave.

You can understand now the reason why no captains are willing to join the training.

Sorry guys, but for the time being –till major life style change occurs for instructors- I would rather be a line captain, enjoying the bidding system to fly long layovers till I transfer to the next fleet.

[NoJoke]

Instructors my @rse. There are some very good instructors, A.K. 777, Ram--- from S.L. 330:}, I.M. from the land of the Pyramids, definitely not the I.M. 330 pr@t from the land of Fish n' Chips, as for S.D. God knows! Most of the others liked to strut up and down with a training folder under their arm; they are in it for self glorification and have no clue about training.

As the others said before; if a mistake is made, then a public flogging and demotion. That's after flying 95 hrs a month all training, S/O etc., nice show of gratitude :ugh: However, what does one expect? :confused:

Join at your own peril.:}

[Ronaldo 330]

S.D is he an Instructor ? ?

Please dont mix Instructors with executors !!

S.D will lose it and it will fall hard on his ego . Just wait and see

Every dog has his day !

[QR UNITED 2009]

O yes he will get it i asure you that he is on high priority to get a pay back portion .

He has done what real pilots don't do to each other regardless of what they want to achive with management .

What come around goes around

[Dan cooper]

Back to the main subject, most of you are confirming that it doesn't worth to join the training team in terms of money and life style.

I guess most of us prefer the life style over the money increment.

I think the best decision for the wannabe instructors is to wait until the instructor's rosters/life style and/or the intructor's package improves, before applying to join the training department, since it is not logical to join under the current circumstances, then wait and hope for things to improve.

p.s. a word to the CPT: I believe it is better to improve the trainer's conditions first, you will have many ex-instructors applying to join your team.
That would be more practical than asking pilots to join in, to be able to improve their life style later.

[Dan cooper]

you actually earn less money being a trainer as well as working harder!! Especially on the 777 fleet as you earn alot less flight pay doing night Delhi turnarounds


That is why I politely refused to join the training team.

Why should I miss the long comfortable layovers to fly only DEL, BOM, ISB,CAI, JED, LHE turn around flights mostly night duty.

I was told that instructors on the 777 don't see these destinations: IAH, MEL, GRU, AMS, ORD, PEK, KIX...etc.

A true story: a TRE who was rostered most of his duty in the sim, made a mistake during the approach into JFK VOR approach RWY 13, and had to go around. He was punished and removed from training!

It seems like trainers don't fly frequently enough, but when they make a mistake due to lack of practice.....the punishment is ready.

No, thanks send me to the long layovers and forget about the training hard work.
Call me when you fix the house from inside.

[shneidertrophy]

All true!

Only that story about the B777 instructor who got his ass kicked over his "Canarsie" stuntwork should be put in a more correct context!


Not being fully configured until 500ft, overshooting the RWY centreline by almost 0.5Nm, banking 15 degrees at 100ft AAL, attemting to land well past the allowable limits of the touchdownzone and allowing finally a go around to be performed well below 20ft RA while letting an FO under training (First flight!) handle the aircraft is not exactly what I would call good instructor material!

:ugh:All red flags are currently up on the B777 fleet....:mad:

[vaschandi]

As most of the time, there is more behind a story!
It is important to know the truth,-- I agree.
But would it not be better publishing such concrete details in the next Safety Newsletter?

[Dan cooper]

Schnidertrophy, thank you for the details of the JFK situation.

As you said, all the red flags are on the 777 fleet, I think it is mainly a FTM problem.

The 777 fleet needs a close look at the following:

1- Roster planning: frequent flying for the instructors to the different fleet destinations instead of those fixed return short flights.

2- A close follow up to the quality of training rather than quantity of training.
(what do you expect from a tired instructor working 6 or 7 days of duty including night sim and/or flights?)

3- Don't invite new instructors to join the training when they've got less than 500 hrs on type (internal transfer from the Airbus fleet).

4- No instructor to be away from the special routes more than 45 days, e.g. Australian MNPS route, Cross Atlantic....etc.

5- A noticeable improvement for instructor's package including roster life style (more important than money). Qualified line captains will be encouraged to join the training, it is cheaper than hiring Boeing instructors to fill the gap in instructor's numbers.

6- Regular training meetings with the training team to follow up and correct any wrong information or techniques (example of the fleet news letter correcting certain V/S misconception). Well done 777 FM, it should be the duty of the FTM to correct such information.

When QR improves the instructor's conditions, the numbers will increase, then the CPT will have the chance to improve the quality of training.

[Captain Partzee]

"Not being fully configured until 500ft, overshooting the RWY centreline by almost 0.5Nm, banking 15 degrees at 100ft AAL, attemting to land well past the allowable limits of the touchdownzone and allowing finally a go around to be performed well below 20ft RA while letting an FO under training (First flight!) handle the aircraft is not exactly what I would call good instructor material!" :eek:

Qatar Airways has no problems with instructor.

Why?

Because it has no instructors. Who can dare call this guys instructors?
At least on B777 fleet. :mad:

[hotline330]

The selection is based on nothing, I understand that the INST should have at least the ability of teaching not like many we have :confused:.

for me the INST selection should be based on the :

1- Experience
2- Ability of teaching
3- CRM

not staff# or nationality or a$$ suckers....

[Daft Wader]

To add some further facts to the "JFK Story" F/O was not on his first flight .

Daft Wader
:ok:

[Fubaliera]

Another solution in Training dept,
Get rid of all the Algerian intructors, they are racist and have a big chip on thier shoulder.

[loc22550]

Hotline330.
and..
4-knownledge.

[smartpilot]

All red flags are currently up on the B777 fleet...


What do you expect when the fleet CI had heavy landing record on his previous fleet, and still under the influence of Airbus procedures & techniques! time to think, act & teach Boeing, also about time to master your Boeing manuals as Part C, and stop those silly part C questions conducting training flights.

[airbanana]

But, what I know, at least the new Ci has no attitude problems as the previous CI, who really was an:mad:, zero CRM as a trainer a really bad one indeed.
Any news about the old chief pilot, what does he is doing now, for sure taking a long nap in his office:ugh:. God save us !!!.

[FlyingHigh330]

@ Fubaliera; Nothing wrong with the Algerians on the 330!! Like to fly with them :ok:

[qatari001]

@ Fubaliera; I think you are the racist by putting all the algerian instructors on the same bin... There are good and bad people in any nationality.. We ve seen it in many other nationalities in the QR pilot community. I hate people
judging their collegues based on the nationality! 2 or 3 bad ones doesn t make all others bad!

The only thing I know is most of them are Professional and FAIR with any other nationality!At least on the 330 fleet...
Do a good job in the SIM/Flight you ll be encouraged and everything will go smooth. Some pilots F:mad:ed up their sim completely and say its the instructor s who s bad:ugh:

[Fubaliera]

I have never heard a non arabic/french speaker who actually likes them, Flight Deck or Cabin Crew. But yes your are right there are other bad apples from other nationalities, its just that the algerians have a higher percentage, especialy on 330/777

[THR MCT]

Welcome ladies and gents to Dr phil show our guest today is Fabaliera:uhoh:
So to put our audience in the perspective of this show fabuliera had a very difficult chilhood starting when he was 6, been abused by a priest then at age of 12 he discovered that he was attracted to Men.
then came our show today where the fact are confirmed by fabuliera himself please welcome FABALIERA................:confused:
Doc Phil:
When reading your posts any psy can tell that you suffering from PTSD
"posttraumatic stress disorder"
so what happen on this night where you were schduled for a late Sim session with That Indian TRI oh sorry now Fabuliera is talking about Algerian Tri. as a matter of fact lucky me my country start with "U" so if he is following an alphabetical order I think I'm still pretty safe for quiet some time insteat of guetting a life his hobby is bashing on Nationalities.

Fabuliera:
when I went with him in this dark room with full motion on,the Tri inserted in the Malf an Eng failure guess what happen when I called stop past V1 that's when he started fin:mad:g me it was even worse when he reseted the box, dim the light and at that time I started sweeting shaking, I left the gear down my V2 started going in the ditch my Hdg became loose second before the disaster then he came from behind in the dark without prior notice and he put me the TOGA couldn't resist Wooooh that hurts :{:{but I have to admit on the long run I enjoyed it:O.

Doc Phil:
Let it go fabuliera open up let the fear come out of you me and the audience are her to help I know you can doo it.

Ladies and gents time is up for today our next show will be following all the development of this amazing story.
Thanks Fab for sharing with us your story CU next show:ugh:

Stay safe fly high and fast
TM

[QR UNITED 2009]

UK JAR Dr got it ?

He deserve it he never stand up for anyone and he was supporting
low standard TRE S.D . How long will S.D survive now when dady is gone ?

Again curry manage to twist fish and chips lol lol

[Ronaldo 330]

For years in QR we had an UK JAR Doctor and he was all around management just as fact he is from UK and he knows JAR's ..
He created a TRE S.D who was young and did a dirty work for him for example he reported two capt A320 while he was on jump seat going to DXB just for talking few words of their own language,he reported a number of people for funny reasons , he also did a dirty work for CEO at a time to fail a Capt who had all grades in his career above standard and every pilot knows it was a set up, he failed most of Qatari F/Os during upgrade, he also manipulate with HR Moroccan lady in order to get info or to push info to CEO through her. We dont have to mention his privat life .
UK JAR's expert always talk against some nationalities and its always the same .
According to above post UK JAR Dr did a SIM with Indian TRE and he didnt do well . Now he resign or asked to leave and a lot of people feel good .

We have more experts US experts TRE s who can not pass KTM SIM at one time . We have experts who are in the office doing nothing except eating dates ( 320 ) .
We have experts which are leaving and joining QR in same sequence as they change the socks.

[Fubaliera]

Ladies and Gentleman, at least we know THR MCT is Algerian. THR MCT you shouldnt drink and be on pprune at the same time. By the way it was probably your mama who was abused and took it out on you.

[QR UNITED 2009]

Fubilera isn't it that you landed to early to Algeria and then you had a bad experiance on the road ? Is that why you hate someone ?

[Ronaldo 330]

Are we short of Instructors ? YES

Where are QR instructors ? In Air Arabia

Who are new Instructors in QR ? Those people which couldn not get upgraded initially

How is QR training standard today ? On the edge of serious incident

Where is safety guy ? Mr YES CEO is now head of other department

What will happen next ? management change new people new ideas but old rubbish as long as it is run by AAB

How much is cost for training all cabin crew and cockpit crew which jumpship after some time ? A LOT of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Which is the only Airline with resignation/termination department on 3 floor ? QR

[Flyjets]

He created a TRE S.D who was young and did a dirty work for him for example he reported two capt A320 while he was on jump seat

Was it during a line check ?

[loc22550]

Line check or not ..whats the difference..
Don't you think this guy (S.D.) is mental sick...?!

Once he kicked out of the airplane a crew who was in positioning back to Doha after his sim in DXB.."his only mistake" : to ask the ground staff if he can board the plane a little bit early before the passenger to relax.

S.D. who was sitting in the cockpit ,saw him,left the cockpit,went straight to him, look at his ID card/name,went back to cockpit,took the interphone make a P.A. and ask him, mentioning his name ,to leave the airplane asap!(A/C at that time was empty with only the crew on board..)
Is this a normal behaviour ..?

[Alcatraz69]

Lalallllllllllaaaaaaa

Time will tell!

[QR UNITED 2009]

S.D

Make your self dirty few times and people will treat you as rubbish .

I have seen when he walk in Tech building most of pilots turn their head off and no one say hi to him . He must have no shame when he is still in QR thinking that he is what ?
Or maybe a poor guy has no place to go ha ha that is more logical explaination . Etihad ? No way our friends will take him , Air Arabia ? no way they will take him , Emirates ? cant belive they would risk , Bahrain Air ? 100 % not , Jazzera ? Not in a dream , Wataniya? he can dream of , Dragon Air ? no no Mr ......

S.D or someone call him Windsock . Lol what a nice nick names in QR
B.M , Windsock ...... Small man .....

Imagine life of this three guys " on every continent of the earth there someone to hate you " Go and try to live with it ! :D

[CI999]

S.D and so many other represent the requirement for instructors in QR, either a** licker or mousey Humble head down low individuals, I assure you some with grad 3 last SIM even failing LPC/OPS and are instructing now, as a result of hard landing, wrong app @ Tokyo & very missy app in New York and more to come (its all training issues), a lots of knowledgeable professional good grads CPs are away from all the miss just coz they don’t have the above requirement :ok:.

I thick there were a lots of screw up and shoveling, removal, eradication of the mafia in ops middle management is mandatory to extirpation the (Disease), NO one should stay :yuk:.

New look, blood, with professional approach, assessment to all ops aspect cross the board is a must before it’s to late (you know what I mean) hope it doesn’t happened any way :confused:.

[Dan cooper]

Hard landing and messy approaches in Japan and JFK?
That's what QR get when the instructors are kept away from flying to these destination.

Most TRI's / TRE's are in the sim, or flying to the ME and the Indian destination, then after 3 months of not visiting a special area and/or airport.....the instructor is rostered with a trainee who never flew in that region before !!

Improve the instructors rosters, you will have the numbers, then you can solve the training issues.

Suggestion: Allow the instructors to fly as "line captains" for a period of time, say 2 or 3 months per year, let them explore the fleet network.
That will make instructors get familiar with the destinations they never see, or rarely visit.

[Alberto 123]

S.D fake TRE

From what i know in QFCL to be designated as Exeminer by CAA a person have to be TRI first and amoung other requirements a person has to have positive opinion and be accepted by Aviation community as a person who is independent and can judge and grade pilots objective .

I am 100 % sure and most of us are that Mr. TRE S.D does not meet the requirements any more . Is new management rechecking who are TRE's under them ?

A person who does all the above mention in other posts can not have authority of TRE . If he can not sleep at night he is fatique and if he can sleep after all what he has done mean he is very serious mental case .

Let me ask others :

Do you leave your wife and 1 y old doughter when you find Romanian girlfrend ?
Whould this be a good Capt decision ? Can people like that be TRE's ?

[CI999]

Lee cooper you are (must) a typical QR instructor always do (say) any thing to hide his weakness, do you mean you have to fly to an A/P regularly in order to fly safe app & landing, :ugh: if you don’t, you well be unsafe!!!!!, in other words they should be a crash for every executive jet, coz they don’t fly schedule therefore fly to diff A/P every flight almost.

Or may be you trying to say all QR A/Ps are cat C .:}

Let me remind you any professional pilot flying wide body airliner, should be able (can) fly to any A/P in the world with charts (Jepp) and briefing (part C).
Other wise you shouldn’t be flying at all, yet an instructor.

wrong people in the wrong seat.

[Dan cooper]

CI 1999, I guess you meant Dan cooper, not Lee cooper, correct? it is ok to be dyslexic, I will not attack you personally the same way you did.

FYI, I am not an instructor, in the matter of fact I just declined an offer to be an instructor in QR, but I was a TRI in my previous airline.

With my reservations on your attitude and personal attack on my skills-based on false assumptions- I can assume you are not a trainer, even your shallow comment suggest you are a senior F/O waiting for your upgrade (nothing wrong with that, I wish you all the best).

I agree with you that any 2 qualified pilots can fly to any airport in the world, but when you are instructing.... you need to be able to fly solo, because the trainee may disengage under pressure and in some cases you might need to correct his/her serious mistakes too.

Don't worry; you will know what I am talking about when you fly as instructor with junior NTR low standard pilot.

Don't try to degrade others just because you don't agree with their opinions or suggestions, it is not respectable pilots' attitude.

Have a nice day.

[AirbusMaster]

C1999, whatever is bothering you, I hope you get it soon out of your system soon.
Dan Cooper, don't worry about C1999 shallow comments, I found it tempting to copy this post from another thread about the same C1999, I will copy it below with no comment.




21st September 2010, 21:04 #121 (http://www.pprune.org/5948566-post121.html) (permalink (http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/419971-qr-flt-ops-management-laughter-factory-7.html#post5948566))
capt.magoo (http://www.pprune.org/members/41265-capt-magoo)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: planet earth
Posts: 44


C1999,
calm down,I see from your post(s),that you have nothing good to say about no-one or the company,rather than shooting your mouth off with all the F words and mentioning peoples initials look at the facts and then if you don't like what you see i'm sure the grass is greener somewhere else, for you.......http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/bah.gif

[A330 man]

Pilots experience is calculated by the hours not by the years of service, so actually it matters if you stay in sim all the time or if you are flying to many destinations.

C1999, do you know why international pilots are favored over domestic or regional pilots when called for job interviews? because they flew to more airports, enriching their flying experience, so I think Dan cooper have a valid point there.

[CI999]

"Domestic & regional pilot" I don’t know where did you get that from, probably American or Indian terminology (only) specially when they try to filter applicant out. But its irrelevant when it comes to quality and skills. Cooper I’m not a FO,
A330 man, try again, sorry you didn’t get wright this time
but I can tell you a good pilot is:

1) Knowledge to be taught.
2) Skills to be gained.
3) And improved by experience..
:ok: :ok: :ok:
If not the way as above NO GOOD :=. if one is missing it will NEVER work.
i.e. so many good pilot with low time, and so many high experience with poor knowledge & many pulls the SPD BRK several times during descent unnecessarily (skills issue).all are not good (ideal) for A330, B777 or 5* QR,

We don’t wait for something to happened to make a change, that’s not smart and most likely it will be to late.

Oops sorry, almost 4get, there is new thing been introduced recently called CRM used "abused" ( politically) by office staff solely personal, to by-pass, isolate some good pilot form (upgrade, transition) how is judging how.:E :E :E

Load master keep mastering .

bottom line fly safe and talk logic.

[A320 Man]

I've got a feeling that some line pilots were not pleased by Cooper's suggestion to let the trainers fly a regular roster for couple of months per year, since that will mean less layovers + more return flights for the line captains.

May be I am wrong, but it is just a feeling.

[shneidertrophy]

And I have the feeling too many people on this forum tend to generalize the whole time without knowing what they are talking about.

There are rotten apples in every basket, so unfortunately this is the case for the instructor basket as well, but do not forget the many good ones in that basket as well. Or can those "pilots" constantly spouting criticism on these forums in all honesty say they never came accross a single good instructor in this airline?

One thing I agree with Mr Cooper is the fact that instructors should be given exposure to the entire fleet network. Not only for their own benefit, but training flights should be done to every corner of the network so new joining pilots truly are prepared.

CI has a point as well stating that a professional pilot should be able to adapt to all new routes/destinations whenever the company deploys him there, but releasing pilots to a remote Indian destination during the monsoon season before ever having been there before/MNPS routes/remote area is NOT a good idea!

So in between the usual drivel these forums tend to generate, some good remarks have been made actually. (The generalisation left aside that is)

[Alberto 123]

A good idea would be to have Training department meeting and discuss all strange fast track TRE positions given by last few years during dark times
of Uk/Indian Empire era . And remove one who has bad records and one who are not indipendant or one who has no thrust and support in aviation community .


Do you have list ? Or shell we do it for you ?

[Ronaldo 330]

How can an TRE be someone who can not keep his dignity ?
What about TRE who repeat KTM sim ?
What about head of TRTO who crash in Eng Fail with CAA inspector watching ?
What about TRE who can not get A330 from stall ?
What about TRE who walk in Tech and no one say hi to him ?
Any idea how can a TRE be someone who at a time could not get LI position but after he took a flight to Sanna he get TRE fast track ?
There are TRE s which where removed and then reinstated for political reasons
QR TRE BM at the time did not know what are limitations for autoland CWC still he reach CP position .

What are you guys talking about ? Quality ??